ERP Support for OCD: The Uncertainty Curve
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2013
- Doing Exposure & Response Prevention (ERP) to get over OCD is tough, but having the right tools can make a huge difference. You might only be visiting your therapist once a week, so you need great tools at home to help you when you're doing the intense work of eliminating a compulsion. The Uncertainty Curve helped me tremendously in tracking my way up and over the extreme anxiety of eliminating each compulsion on the path to recovery.
You can download a pdf worksheet to track your progress here: www.markfreeman.ca/the-uncerta...
I first learned about the Uncertainty Curve in the workshops of innovation and visual thinking guru Tom Wujec. You can learn more about his work here: www.tomwujec.com/
You know how you said there is eventually a breakthrough on the uncertainty curve? I'm there. I did it! I am cutting compulsions and it has been hell at some points. I was certain I was going to go crazy or die, that I couldn't accept my thoughts, that nothing was ever going to make me feel better... but guess what happened? I'm still alive. I didn't go insane or die. My thoughts still pop up, but they are JUST THOUGHTS. Just thoughts. No matter what my brain says, I CAN choose to do the healthy actions that I want to. I don't have to avoid them because my thoughts scare me. I don't have to do a compulsion to get through them. I'm sure a thought will come, the temptation to perform a compulsion will come, but I always have my choices. And that's what I'm going to focus on instead of what my thoughts say. It's truly as useless as letting the clouds in the sky control what I'm doing! Thank you so much for your videos, Mark. They have helped me help myself!
That's great, Lindsay! I'm very happy for you. Have lots of fun exploring all of the healthy things you can do now!
how long did it take you
My recommendations are:
- very important to understand why it started, why you feel what you feel and thing what you think and if possible what started it. If you cam recall that and understand how your self steem and perception of the world is so distorted by the trauma or event that detonated the ocd you are one big step ahead of overcoming it.
- never let ocd thought fool you into getting back to obsessing, uncertainty is the biggest ally of ocd, as an ocd sufferer you always feel the need to be sure that everything is and will be ok, believe me you dont need that reassurance, embrace the uncertainty because its tour best ally and liberator mark this words “embrace the uncertainty as a treasure as its your best ally”
-anxiety peaks maje you more vulnerable to obsessions so be aware when the thoughts and fears start to pop up and dont react, NEVER REACT to a thought of ocd in any way just embrace the uncertainty sensation.
- never give up because its truly doable and its truly worth it
- dont let the ocd trick you into giving up or falling again while you are in the process, thing of it as a deug addiction, if you go back to trying drugs after being sobber for some time you will end up as bad as you were, perseverance is key
- never let ocd distort your perception of the world because thats what it does sadly and is its wat of tricking you into fearing what your thoughts and obsessions tell you
- work on your selfsteem and happiness its the key and the origin of ocd thoughts and its the key to overcoming it.
- do meditation to clear your mind, it will help you to get rid of the distorted reality that ocd creates
- do physical activity or activities that help you get rid of stress and liberate endorphins as its the hormone of hapiness and ocd feeds of lack of hapiness to increase the obsessions
- know your worth in the world, never believe that you depend on someone or something to do anything, you can do and be who you want on your own, thats key to knowing how strong you are and capable of living without fear.
- never, and i mean never iverthing about anything or react with fear to a thought, it will not help you in anyway, it only distorts the reality, embrace uncertainty as its your best ally and trust in yourself, you would be amazed if you knew how powerful the mind is when you want to achieve something, its mindblowing once you realize it.
YOU CAN AND WILL ACHIEVE IT
Mark this words because I thought it was impossible but it’s actually a lot easier than I thought, you just need to understand ocd in all aspects, once you do that is a lot easier.
It's amazing, isn't it? Knowing that you CAN sit with uncertainty. It's a game changer!
This is so awesome and encouraging to read!!!
One thing you might find useful is ditching the focus on OCD. Instead of constantly fighting OCD, I found it helpful to switch to focusing on the healthy things I want to do and how to overcome the challenges to getting them done. Then you can accept whatever emotion you have. It's just part of the journey to doing healthy things. If everything is about overcoming OCD, what's the one thing you absolutely need? OCD. Try not to make OCD a requirement of doing healthy things.
I bring my focus to the actions. You don`t need to reassure yourself that you`re getting better, you just need to do healthy things. Sometime it`s useful to just imagine that you`re starting from scratch. So instead of fighting OCD, just eliminate coping, checking, and controlling, and replace them with healthy activities that align with your values and improve your health. It`s not about getting better, it`s about living the way you want to live.
Mark what’s strange and I realise that it is, is that I want to workout and study but I want to do it when I “get better”, knowing very well that if I distract myself and keep myself busy, I’ll be able to cut compulsions better. So, how do I quit ruminating, compulsions like checking and googling and just focus on my work?
P.S I love your approach towards OCD and how you just label them as intrusive thoughts. Labelling is bad sometimes, my therapist says.
@Rolling Withthepunches … I’m 39 and been dealing with OCD since I was 5. 😣
For me "being sure that I am doing the right thing in order to heal" is a big OCD "theme" . I try to accept that I might actually not be doing the right thing about my OCD and that there is a possibility that I will never heal. I think you know if you are in OCD mode or not by what you feel. For example you have a split moment in your week when you say to yourself: "hey that felt right, this is how it should always feel". This approach also helps me define and apply my values in though times.
Thanks for the question, Anastassia. These paradoxes pop up all of the time in recovery. For example, we use an approach like ERP because the anxiety we`re experiencing is taking over our lives, so we don`t want to live like that anymore, but to get rid of it, we have to stop wanting to get rid of it and instead welcome it into our lives and pursue it more, but by doing that, we experience it less. Recovery is very irrational.
You're welcome! Keep pushing along that journey!
Thank you Mark Freeman!
Mark, Very Insightful!! Thanks. The Disease has a "Sick and Twisted way" to Always want me to "Think/talk" about IT. But you are So "Right"...when one Mindfully "Refuses" to accept this Torment, and instead "Steps back" and Focuses on "Simply Being in the Moment"...and forgetting that u even have the illness, it doesn't seem to want to "Play, anymore"...and eventually leaves me alone. As long as I talk about it, and give it what it wants: Fear/Panick/Depression, it wants me to Suffer More"...
Great stuff. I am tracking my progress through recovery process with a detailed notebook. Such a helpful tool
Thanks for your posts - very useful. God Bless
This is well for my HOCD, I gotta accept and push through.
aye bro ik this was a while ago for u but can i talk to u bout it
Sure, there's no "should" with anxiety. It does whatever it does. For me, I found that the Uncertainty Curve happens each time I resist a compulsion (it rises and then falls), also over the course of a day, also over the course of many days, and also over the course of many months as I worked through recovery. In other words, the Uncertainty Curve is made up of many tiny Uncertainty Curves, which are also made up of many more Uncertainty Curves. Happy riding!
You are very inspiring people and OCD can't control you. You are great friend of mine. I tried AA meeting and they said they just stop drinking and ignore anxiety.
Hello Mark , I would like to tell you how much I'm so grateful for finding you. I'm pretty old not knowing to much about CZcams or anything else . one day I was crying like I always do I came across you some how .I have to say you have gave me hope .I listen to every word I'm trying so hard I really appreciate you alot. thank you so much you are truly one of a kind .
+carolyn mcnally Thanks, Carolyn. Keep at it and use that hope as fuel!
Thanks for this! It's a really refreshing take on erp and the whole process of overcoming OCD
You're welcome!
Now whatever bad happens to me that causes me incredibly high anxiety i know i can habituate to that feeling or thought cause i know habituation is the only way to get over these uncomfortable feelings and thoughts... Like recently i faced cheating of my wife that really given me emotional pain but i can't leave her & she ask me my forgiveness so the way is erp that can make me feel good again for my wife & this is really right thing to do as mark advised in other video that we need not have those values that apart us from our beloved... So in just 8 days I became habitual of those cheating feelings and emotions now i love my wife & she too me... Thanks mark u r such a beautiful angel of god
Why are you not published or a therapist or something? You're doing incredible work.
salute from egypt
Hi Mark, I'd like to add my voice to those thanking you for your brilliant presentations. I'm practising ERP now and have already experienced the terrible anguish of reaching the peak of that uncertainty curve...As horrible as it sounds I really don't wish to put anyone off the process as I'm very happy to vouch for the fact that it's worth it. A 'breakthrough' does indeed occur. My relationship with my obsessive thoughts has definitely been altered for the better, my anxiety has been greatly reduced and I can now see light at the end of the tunnel. I genuinely believe you're helping to save lives with your upbeat, positive and practical approach. Thank you once again!
+Apogee02UK Thanks! That's great you were able to stick with it and ride up and over these challenges!
Thank you very much, Mark (sorry for writing Your name wrong in my question :-) )! I am doing it exactly this way and I am making progress already!
No more ocd now... Fight learn change
Thanks! I already have an amazing group of CZcams subscribers so I don't need to aspire to anything else.
Yeah I need to do this. I so tired of living in my head.
Enjoy getting out of your head!
Thank you very much for this. I do have a question. Should anxiety be peaking over many days or is it everyday one experiences the uncertainty curve when doing ERP. In other words at the beginning of the exercise one experiences an initial level of anxiety as the day progresses anxiety increases as the day wanes anxiety decreases. Does this seem correct?
Thank you for your reply Mark. To follow up, how do we know if we are falling into a compulsion like reassuring ourselves that we are getting better, or that we will get better...or if we are applying healthy strategies?
Everybody is going to encounter set backs and your brain is going to invent all sorts of reasons to make you go backwards. Like I mentioned in my video about being irrational, it's useful to learn that you just need to do healthy things, without any reason or even if you think of reasons why it won't work. It's not about reasoning or arguing with your brain. It can say whatever it wants. Focus on doing healthy things instead of trying to fight OCD.
Hi Mark! I've been watching your videos for a while and they have been a great help for me. Thank you so much for opening up about your own experience and sharing such important and useful stuff about the ocd recovery path.
As I am currently trying to cut out mental compulsions and experiencing uncertainty, anxiety, discomfort and all sorts of unpleasant feelings, I stumbled upon this video and the uncertainty curve seems to be such a useful tool in the path to recovery. So I tried to download the uncertainty curve pdf but the link in the description doesn't seem to work. Is there any other way possible to get the pdf?
Again, thank you for all that you've been doing in the mental health world. It truly and literally has been mind changing for me.
Hi Mark
mark if you are still there how long did it take you to overcome?
Oh man thank you for explaining this! I just went thru about an 1hr struggling with a compulsion to act out. Afterward i calmed down for 1-2 and THENNN it spiked up again! But … This time less intense and less time was about to cave BUT then came across this video, and realized yup this is gonna be a mountain climbing journey.
Do you have any updated workout sheet to track this kind of progress?
also u are awesome
Hi Mark, I know that you mentioned that you should always start on a small compulsion first but my main compulsion is avoiding eating when I'm anxious because I have a lot of horrible thoughts that I won't be able to swallow the food or that if I eat it I'll get sick after. My obsessions have a lot to do with being afraid of forgetting how to do automatic things like breathing and swallowing. I know I have to start with cutting out the compulsion of avoiding food when I'm extremely anxious but that's the hardest compulsion for me right now. Do you have any ideas or tips for me? Thank you.
Hi Mark, you are so great for posting these vedios. when i drive, i keep thing i hit or run over someone that i don't realize it. i would go back to my driving route and check. or would mentally review the driving incient and make sure it did not happen . It is so difficult.
Thanks! Going back to check and reviewing in your head are compulsions. The more you do them, the more you'll worry about this. But it's also important to deal with other checking. When you check other things in your head or go back to look, even though they may not bother you as much, they lead to this issue that does worry you. So it's useful to look at all compulsions. It helped me to recognize that it's a practice.
I dont know if this is a relevant question to this video but on your site you said to post questions on youtube so here it is ;)
When I want to fight the compulsions I have a lot of sentences ready to say to myself. For example: 'youre not helping yourself by giving in, youre only helping the ocd. This might feel good short term but not in the long term.
Is this a good way to do this or is saying this to myself also a compulsion?
It's useful to know that stuff but you already know that so I find it can help to shift the focus to the things we actually want to be doing in life. Then, instead of fighting compulsions, it's more about building and creating the things we want to see in life.
Mark Freeman Thats easy, I want to live. If this ocd doesnt stop I dont. :)
It could help to see that avoiding life is OCD. The OCD doesn't need to stop to live your life. You live your life to get over it.
Mark Freeman Ok, I'll try
Interesting
Tomorrow im going to start (yes, I am). I didnt make everything perfect (such as clean my room) because thats also ocd. Lol I already have headaches
in 2010, OCD had reached such levels that I had no other choice but resisting carrying out any compulsion or else I would have lost my job and relationship. Past the initial discomfort of resisting compulsions, what had thus far been anxiety started changing into other emotions: profound joy, anger, energizing drive to carry out tasks that anxiety had paralyzed me to do.
Any idea how this can be interpreted within the OCD disease?
Hi Mark. This may be a symptom of my OCD, but a question for you. Since the uncertainty curve is supposed to help you know you are on the right track...isn't that falling back on feeling safe, which is something we are not supposed to strive to feel? Thank you!
How the heck can you last 9 days? I’m like rolling over in my grave within the first 30 minutes of my experience 😂. I’ve never used drugs in my life but cutting out the compulsion must be similar to an addicts urge to use. The longest I’ve made it has been 24 hours. Im so uncomfortable with the thoughts and anxiety I break like a person in interrogation 🤪. I never had this problem till about 5 years ago and it’s seems to be linked to needing to certain about anything that seeds fear into my mind.
It could help to start with a different change. Learning to make and sustain any change in our lives is a great way to learn the basic skills involved here. It's like building any skill: we start small and gradually increase the difficulty.
Mark Freeman I bought your book and I’ve started reading it as well as the small steps. I realized that I’m OCD in more subtle areas of my life. I’m ready to work hard to beat this “squishy blob” that tries to fool me.
@@ludvikjerabek Thanks for reading! Let me know if you have any questions as you're doing the exercises
Hi Mark, I have a question about how to react to these thoughts. This past week my anxiety has been with me since I wake up to when I go to bed and I've been very scared. I did exposure and response with my therapist last night and I didn't feel very anxious during our time, but when i went home and tried to sleep the anxiety came back and kept me awake for hours. My OCD is strictly obsessive, so most of my compulsions are internal, besides checking on the internet and reading which is something i've learned not to do. So, when my worry pops into my head how should I react? Should i just mentally say "idk if that's true" or should I try and mentally do nothing and just sit with the anxiety. Sometimes it's hard to tell if i'm doing it right because the anxiety will subside but then come right back within a minute.
+Taylor Rapp To start, with something that might help is to not see OCD as directly connected to anxiety. Whether there's anxiety there or not isn't necessarily a useful indicator of whether something is unhealthy or not. Anxiety is like pain--the thing that causes the pain doesn't necessarily accompany the pain. If you feel anxiety, you can do healthy things. If you don't feel anxiety, you can do healthy things. With the worry, as well, it's important not to try to get rid of thoughts or try to get rid of anxiety. That's what OCD is all about. The more you try to get rid of these things, the more you instruct your brain to think about them (so you can keep trying to get rid of them). What I've found helpful is switching the focus to the things I want to do in life. Whatever is in my brain can be there while I do the things I value.
Thank you for your amazing work, Mark, I wanted to ask you a question though, sometimes, when I finally get over my stupid fears and obsessions and anxieties and whatever, I feel this sudden urge to start feeling nervous again. I know it's really my OCD speaking, wanting me to pay attention to it, but, occasionally, I fall back into the black hole and start feeling afraid again, is it normal? What do you think I should do when that happens?
+VideogameDemocracy That is totally normal. I'd suggest checking out my videos on Stockholm Syndrome czcams.com/video/yjBeSLYg58o/video.html and viewing OCD as an Addiction czcams.com/video/xtdeThWSCaYA/video.htmls long as you like getting rid of anxiety and view anxiety as a negative thing, your brain will keep giving it to you so you can do that thing you like: get rid of it. I find that it helps to shift the focus from getting over OCD to building a healthy life. Instead of thinking of it as "my OCD", consider what you would do if you didn't stick that label on yourself. If we measure success by getting over OCD, then we need to keep OCD in our lives so we can get over it. But you don't need OCD. If there's anxiety, that's fine. It's normal. Let it be there and do the things you want to do in life.
+Mark Freeman Exactly. I don't know what the approach I should be taking is, though. Sometimes I feel really, really happy, but, at the same time, really really anxious and nervous, what I'm saying is, whenever I feel that way, I'm also afraid of the thoughts that are in my head, I'm scared of them and I try to shoo them away, yesterday I felt like that, and even though I was feeling alright, I just couldn't help but think "This isn't ok". Everyone keeps telling me "It's just junk in your head", and, deep down, I know they're right, but I just can't bring myself to accept this, I know that what I should do is think "You know what? Yeah, you're not gonna stop me from doing the things I like", but, as soon as I start feeling a little better, boom, I relapse and start feeling depressed again, this endless cycle of extreme pleasure and happiness followed by depression and sadness is starting to take a toll on me, I remember I managed to return to living a happy life just three weeks ago, and with the same exact type of obsessions in my mind, too, then, afterwards, something inside my brain snapped and told me "Yeah, you know what? You need more of this feeling, so go back to your depressed self" and it aaaalll went back to square one again, at that point I just gave up, I couldn't take it anymore, and I went to bed feeling hopeless, I know that what I should do is "just go with it", but how am I supposed to do this when everytime I feel a little pleasure everything goes back to the way it was before? Does that happen because I'm afraid it will happen? Because I've noticed a trend with these sorts of thoughts, the more you're afraid your "what if" scenarios come true, the more they're likely to become true. Thankfully, I have a therapist who helps me deal with this sort of stuff, and I'm sure that, in 8 months, all of this will have disappeared from my mind. Your work is still amazing, though, so far, you're one of the very few people who have managed to pinpoint exactly how it feels to have OCD :)
I'm so terrible at not giving into compulsions. It's so hard. But I know it's the way forward. How do I motivave myself?
it is tough but I actually think trying to feel motivated isn't necessarily a feeling to pursue. Chasing feelings is a big part of OCD. It would be like somebody wanting to feel safe or certain before doing an action. That quickly becomes part of OCD. So I encourage throwing out motivation. Here's a video on motivation and OCD: czcams.com/video/34xevxBI_FE/video.html
How to do erp for contamination on situations where you must wash hands like after going to restroom. If I do 5 full arm washes how do i stop and get it to just one normal wash? Isn't the goal to not wash at all and sit with the anxiety? But 1 wash is necessary.
I had hand washing compulsions. Cutting it out was about washing once. There are many compulsions like that. The issue is not the action, it's how and why we're doing it. A big help was changing why I was doing it. I wash my hands now just as a practice of thanking them for hard work rather than trying to control terrible disasters.
Hey idk if you'll answer my question but is researching more and more about ocd and feeling like "hey this is like just what im feeling maybe i have it" then I'll self diagnosed myself making me feel a heavy thing in my chest
It's a compulsion that's always going to create more uncertainty to check about online, like this checking for reassurance about that feeling
@@everybodyhasabrain i talked about my parents all of this ocd thing and it helped me alot today and thank you for helping other ppl
Cant stop hand washing ,need some advice - all started 5 months ago,when
i used wasp spray out side,now i think its in the house and will kill
me dog.logic is the spray dries in 2 hours and is safe for dogs to even
walk on.Plus they even use it for dog flea bedding spray.
That type of rationalizing and trying to use logic to get out of this is actually part of the disorder. Taking that approach tends to lead to more compulsions, not less. If you can access a therapist experienced with helping people cut out compulsions or use a workbook on a proven therapy like Acceptance & Commitment Therapy, those can be helpful ways to tackle this.
Hey mark, I suffer with ocd and I don’t really know what to do. I really want to start ERP but I have a problem. I worry about getting and STD without symptoms even though not having sex, so I would feel that if I did start it the anxiety would be bad for the time being, but I would then ruminate on the thought of doing the action that I was trying to cut out but get an STD in the process without me knowing. Then I would get extremely anxious and want to get it checked out even though the STD clinic is literally the last place I would want to go. Please mark this is taking over my life :(((
EDIT: I feel that if I don’t try to engage in my compulsions then when I don’t over days and days then all the things I havent don’t would build up in my mind and then I would just get worse rather than better
One thing I find really useful with ERP is to start with cutting out a small compulsion so you can learn how to make a change in your life. I wouldn't start with the thing that's bothering you the most. That is very naturally quite difficult so it leads to that fear you mentioned at the end there.
Mark Freeman okay, thanks mark!
Hi Mark, does the Uncertainty Curve also apply to "one-off" compulsions? Like a compulsion that occurred just one time in response to a single, unusual incident? Or is it just for compulsions that occur regularly i.e. daily or weekly? Also is it possible for an Uncertainty Curve to last longer than a month?
I find that the Uncertainty Curve applies to eliminating compulsions or introducing health behaviors. So if it only happened once, and you're not engaging in that compulsion any more when you experience anxiety, then I'm not sure how it would apply. To your other question, I found it useful to see the entire recovery journey as one long Uncertainty Curve. The entire journey is about going up and over a mountain of anxiety, and that journey is broken down into the experience of eliminating specific compulsions, which each have their own Uncertainty Curve.
Hi Mark, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. My question is, what if: (1) A random, unusual event happens that does not usually happen, (2) it's something particularly upsetting, and (3) you then experience a compulsion to do a ritual to neutralize it? And what if it's a difficult ritual that's not easy or simple to do, yet refraining from giving in to the compulsion is causing an unusual amount of distress? Does the Uncertainty Curve still apply? In other words, this is not on your "usual" list of compulsions but is a unique, random case that popped up one day that you don't usually deal with. Will riding the Uncertainty Curve still apply? WILL the anxiety eventually go down?
thelady001 Yes, and what you're seeing here is a great example of why it's so helpful to look beyond the superficial characteristics of a compulsion. OCD involves experiencing a feeling you don't want, and then trying to do something to try to "neutralize" it, like you mentioned. Recovery is all about tackling that underlying pattern, wherever and whenever it happens. The particulars of what feeling you experience or how you try to "neutralize" it are irrelevant. OCD can very easily jump around to different things. As you cut out your old compulsions, you'll seed that quiet often. So don't get hung up on the superficial characteristics. At their core, all of these situations are the same.
*****
Okay...Thank you. I do feel very scared/worried, but I will work at it. I will set up an uncertainty curve for this particular incident (which I'm still worried about) and will see if I can watch the anxiety of refraining from compulsions diminish over time. Thanks for the insights. I really appreciate what you are doing to help others.
So let’s say you do everything right cut out compulsions how long will the uncertainty, anxiety last for? Not asking for reassurance by the way. Thanks Mark.
Even if this wasn't for reassurance, it's still 100% compulsion pattern. Because if you cut out the compulsions, why would you care about the uncertainty? The question is the same as somebody asking: "If I cut out all of the compulsions, when will the contaminated feeling in my hands go away so I'll feel clean?"
This is good and all but can you tell me what you did to cut out the compulsion? I keep hearing you say this but could you touch on what your thought process was on this? Was it whenever you got thought you just told yourself to ignore it, or did you recognize it and be logical about it telling yourself it's just the OCD effecting me
Neither of those options worked for me. If I could ignore the thoughts/urges, then I wouldn't have had the problem in the first place. And being logical didn't work at all because I found that OCD was very logical and reasonable. I didn't see any of my compulsions as unreasonable. I had very rational reasons for all of them and could always think of a reason to engage in a compulsion, even when I knew it would just lead to more problems and more suffering.
Having a thought, or urge, or feeling is totally fine. You don't have to react to it. Those things can just be there. You don't have to prove them wrong, you don't have to chase after the questions your brain throws at you. They don't have to change the healthy actions you can take at any given moment to build better health and reach your goals in life.
What helped me the most for learning to cut out compulsions was learning how to just let the thoughts be there and still do healthy things. I can carry those thoughts/feelings/urges with me. The assumption that I had to react to them was a mistaken assumption on my part. If I see a cloud in the sky that I don't like, I don't have to engage in compulsions. If I experience a thought in my head that I don't like, I don't have to engage in compulsions. It can be there and I can still do healthy things.
***** So just learn that the thoughts and urges don't define you, so when they do happen they don't have to be a problem?
Justgirlythings Well, yes, I'd say it's very helpful to recognize that thoughts and urges don't define you anymore than indigestion in your stomach defines you. It's just stuff happening in an organ. But ultimately you have to choose to not engage in compulsions. You have do something healthy instead of reacting to your obsessions. It's only when we choose to start judging thoughts and holding on to unhelpful beliefs and desires that problems start to emerge. We don't have to stick all of that extra junk on the stuff in our heads.
You can do this!
adrihei1 The healthy things you do vary from person to person and in each situation. It's not about specific healthy things. For instance, the first compulsion I cut out was checking the door lock when I left the house. The healthy thing to do in a situation like that is to go and do whatever I was planning to do when I left the house. So one morning I might leave the apartment and, instead of engaging in the compulsion of checking the door lock, I would walk to school. Or another day I might be going to see friends, so instead of engaging in a checking compulsion, I go out the door, close it, and instead of wasting time and energy on a compulsion, I go to see my friends.
It's about doing the things you actually want to do in life. Actions that align with your values. Actions that make you healthy and happy. But there's no set list of Healthy Things. In any situation you're going to have an opportunity to mindfully choose how you spend your time and energy.
Mark Freeman ohh reading this (super old) comment it makes more sense now. By living your life youre kind of letting your brain know that not giving in to thoughts leads to living your life, to positive things. Right? Man thats a hard way to do it but its the best way because youre completely letting go of ocd.
Hey please help I have a question. I keep seeing people and therapists talk about how a way to get rid of the fear in your brain and get rid of the ocd slowly is to record yourself saying the scenario that scares you. For me it is Health so health anxiety. My thoughts have been what if I have a heart disease for example, or saying I do, although I know well I do not I’m a healthy person. It’s just the fear in my mind now. But what I don’t understand is how I have to say it in the recording in the present tense. But I’ve also seen everywhere that “words have power” and be careful what you say or think. Also when it comes to doing ERP. I just don’t want it to happen because I spoke on it, even if it is for recovery and to help my brain. Please id appreciate the help. This is what hold me saying things out loud in order to get through recovery. And it’s not just the heart disease it’s other health related things in my mind
And what is your question?
ive practiced this unknowingly for the past few weeks, but im struggling with my last obsession. my anxiety hasn’t reduced and i think it’s because ocd created a realistic reason for the compulsion while in my earlier ones it didn’t create any rational reason. usually uncertainty/anxiety is replaced with rational thoughts after sleeping but it hasnt happened for my last one yet.
my anxiety/uncertainy went away after meditating then running 20 for mins:-) Before I slept, i had another obsession but ignored it and im experiencing anxiety again. Ignoring it was impulsive and i should see a professional because im hurting myself.
Update: i progressed with ERP and im doing way better now
I find that I have these mini uncertainty curves when cutting a compulsion. For example if I'm fighting the urge to go and check the garage light is off, I'll have that peak of anxiety which will then start to come down. I guess that's a normal part of the whole extended uncertainty curve.
yes, it's a very scalable concept. You can see it in each moment, in a day, over the course of a project, etc.
@@everybodyhasabrain It's fascinating the way it works. And that it does work! Happy new year - I hope 2020 is an amazing year for you :)
Funny thing happened last night which proves that the content of your thoughts DOES NOT MATTER! I was desperate to check if the garage light was off (yeah, I don't know why that matters but it's my latest thing lol) and if my daughter had turned off her hair straightener in her bathroom (because, you know....fire!!!) before she went out for the night, but I resisted - felt super anxious but sat with it regardless. It wasn't until 5pm today that I suddenly realised....I hadn't given either issue a single thought all night and all day! And even when I did think about them, I couldn't be bothered to check anyway lol
Hey just wanted to ask that medication causes less anxiety i am using luvox i am trying erp but not feeling any anxiety
What is your question?
@@everybodyhasabrain i wanted to ask that i am on meds for 1month luvox. But when i am feeling more anxious i am experiencing no or very little anxiety if i am trying to trigger it my self. Is this effect of med or i am just overthinking. Thanks for replying btw. You are such kind man because of whome i strated to take the path of recovery rather than suffering daily. Keep doing the noble cause.
Hi Mark. I'm a college student going through an intense existential crisis that I believe is linked to pure OCD (I've been dealing with this for about 5 months). It has ripped the very core from me -- I'm literally questioning existing and why I am in my own body. Do you think the curve technique would be able to tackle something this heavy?
Cutting out compulsions, whether they're mental or physical, always works. The Uncertainty Curve simply reflects the experience a person has as they cut out compulsions--uncertainty/anxiety rises and rises and then falls. I wouldn't say that the Uncertainty Curve is a technique. Cutting out compulsions is the technique and this is a way to track that and acknowledge that the experience is difficult and that's normal.
I see. I've downloaded the pdf and will start cutting out my compulsions and tracking my progress today. No more googling existential questions, no more seeking unanswerable questions.
Parker Dodson That sounds great. You might find it useful not to approach this as "Pure O" if you're googling things. That's a very obvious compulsion outside of your head. Enjoy embracing those uncertainties!
Thanks!
can you do one video on medication to aid the process of recovery
I'm not familiar with any medication that aids recovery.
I'm able to let go of rumination but when I keep with uncertainty about everything I start asking muself "am I doing what OCD orders me to do?" And start questioning like what if I'm unknowingky giving into compulsions?
I find it useful to see that as just more ruminating. It's very easy to engage in compulsions worrying about OCD. It helps to shift the focus to where you want to go.
Mark Freeman Thanks Mark
You're welcome!
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This video is very old so you may not see this but my experience with OCD has been that I don’t really have outward compulsions to comfort myself. They’re all within my mind, primarily I suppose just trying to squash the unpleasant thoughts, thereby beginning the cycle of desperately trying to avoid the thoughts and obsessing over them anyway. Would you say this process you described in this video applies to my situation as well? Really the only compulsions I can identify that I would need to cut out are seeking reassurance from others and trying to avoid unpleasant thoughts.
Yes, it can help to see that compulsions in our heads are no different than compulsions outside of our heads. If I'm checking a memory, that's no different than checking a lock. If I'm trying to get rid of a bad thought contaminating my mind, that's just like washing repeatedly to try to get rid of a feeling contaminating my hands. Here's a video on understanding mental compulsions: czcams.com/video/ArJrrM_XaDE/video.html
@@everybodyhasabrain I will definitely check out that video, thank you! I have been very confused about something though, is it common for a repetitive, intrusive thought to just be some completely random phrase that seems to get stuck in your head? If so, should that be handled the same as any other obsession?
@@chloebarrow3573 I found it really helpful to see it all as brain stuff. The issue isn't the particular nature of the brain stuff. The issues arise from what we do to it. So if we're judging it as different, checking on it, trying to get certainty about it, attaching meaning to it, etc, that's going to create the difficulties. The stuff in the brain is just like a bunch of vegetables in a grocery store. We don't have to come up with a different way to deal with every vegetable we see. Instead, we can keep the focus on what it is we want to make. It really doesn't matter if I hate turnips. I'm there to get tomatoes to make tomato soup. So I can just walk right by the turnips. There's nothing wrong with seeing them, but I don't have to spend any time on them.
@@everybodyhasabrain that’s a great way to think of it. It just all gets so confusing because I feel like I’ve been rightly dealing with mental compulsions, specifically concerning a phrase I’ve been thinking repeatedly for a few days now but it doesn’t seem to be letting up, the thought is still frequent. But I guess that’s where the “uncertainty curve” would be applied.
But I’ve also heard of people having things stuck in their heads for years so I guess I’m just confused.
If I well understood we can look at certainty as a bank account: you have x certainty money that you can spend to be "certain" of things. But every time you take money to use 'em, you find yourself with less money to spend, so buying things become more and more difficult. So if you want to "check" something, it should be something very important (regardless fears) otherwise you will get broke in very little time and then to get up again you have to contract debts over debts... Am I wrong?
And I forgotten... the more you spend money the more inflation goes up so they be less and less valuable.
I find the second point you made about inflation is useful. For me, I'd already spent checking to the point it was worthless. So I had to come up with new ways to approach things. I found it more useful to get proactive with things and use values, so checking isn't something we need to spend
@@everybodyhasabrain Got it. I eliminated almost all checking compulsion but one maybe because of some underneath beliefs. I think in my case is because my ocd is about things that in some cases I think are to be "solved" because they can help me. Obsession are all about what to do and how to do things. Really don't know sometimes where to go because I don't engage in compulsions but it seems like that i'm missing something useful lol.
So if I just ride it out and not do compulsions, put up with the uncertainty it will eventually subside?
It sounds like you're describing the goal of a compulsion, though. You want to get rid of a feeling and you're asking if this is a ritual, when performed correctly, that will make a bad dirty wrong feeling subside? Then it'll probably just create more of the feeling. It's much more useful to want to have any thoughts or feelings. We don't have to judge and hate on them and turn them into a contamination
Hi Mark Plzz suggest me good books for OCD recovery..
"Get out of your mind and into your life" by Steven Hayes could be useful.
Thank you..
Is excessive rumination/ obsessing over sth a compulsion? Im not even sure if my question is reassurance
Yes!
@@everybodyhasabrain Thank you very much for the answer!!!
Alot of people are sayin you have to live with the uncertainty about OCD,
That you have live with the fear of "so what if im a pedophile", (I had this fear anxiety) ERP wouldnt work for me because making peace with pedophilia was an absolute NO! I didn't want the feelings, the thoughts, the uncertainty so my goal was to get to where I was before I had these symptoms, my goal was to walk outa this unchanged by this God forsaken disease, my goal was to be the person I always knew I was.
I went through this in 2005 and I wasn't willing to compromise with it, I wanted it gone period. The only thing I can say is I got out of it, I dont know how, I dont understand but the fear and anxiety left I didnt compromise, I didnt do erp, I didnt allow it to change me. This disease was so painful I would be sitting playin with my friends a rouge thought would enter my mind and I would brake out in tears.
For 8months this happen.
The goal is to get out the same you went in or even better, not to compromise, not to change not to be bullied by ocd.
Self harm ocd, sex ocd, pedophile ocd, serial killer ocd, the ocd about who you are as a person the goal should always be to not let this disease change you, if you can it will make you a better person.
God bless you.
Rev55 are you still OCD free?
I'm following
So helpful. Will keep listening. Thanks for helping take the silence out of this disorder.
I'm 6 weeks into ERP therapy for germs and contamination OCD and so far... no help whatsoever. Are we sure this is the "gold standard" for treatment? I'm going to have to find another solution as ERP sessions drain my bank account, and that's about it. I unfortunately can't recommend.
With ERP, after 6 weeks, there would be some big changes. Those come from cutting out compulsions. It's something we do. ERP can't make any changes for us. It's like a workout plan. The workout plan works because the plan is to cut out all of the compulsions. If you're still keeping the compulsions after 6 weeks, then it could be useful to look at whether your therapist is putting together a useful workout plan (and doing ERP, not "exposure therapy"), or whether you're not cutting out the compulsions. I can say that weightlifting doesn't work if I don't lift the weights, or my trainer doesn't know what they're doing, but that's not a problem with weightlifting.
Hi Mark. I just seen your video on OCD. what is you advise or strategic for OCD of contamination? I often observed people holding the handles on trains or bus and then using their cell phones or belongings, putting their bags on the ground, walking with shoes outdoor, gaving dropped their phone or wallet on the ground but picked up and as if that doesn't bother them a bit. But as you mentioned OCD is logical reasonable. And my OCD thoughts are yes, those above mention are unclean and should not be acceptable, as it is reasonable to say the supermarket basket or handles outside are touched by many people and it is definitely unclean. The outdoor ground is where people walks with shoes with all sort of dirt etc and not going bare footed or not to drop things or leave things on the ground is valid. These leads to a respond of avoidance and if ny chance I have to sit on a chair where people just stepped on with their shoes, I feel tension and a need to either avoid or clean up. Any helpful suggestion to overcome for this "logical OCD"? Thanks.
Yes, it's useful to recognize how this machinery works. You already know that the way over this is to be unreasonable. The question is: do you want to get over OCD. It helped me to recognize I can choose to keep it, and continue believing the stuff in my head, out I can choose to get over it and commit to taking back control of my life, no matter what my brain throws up. Now that you see how your brain works, you have this choice. You can keep these unhelpful beliefs or you can find new ones that are more helpful to you living the life you want.
What if you can’t start small because your biggest obsessions/compulsions are in your home where you’re confronted with them all the time?
That's very common that people are surrounded by the things they'd see as their biggest obsessions/compulsions. In fact, I'd say it wouldn't be a person's biggest obsession if it wasn't something that's close to them. So I don't see how that would be a problem here. Can you explain specifically what you're seeing as the barrier or challenge?
Marc, recently my OCD started to scared me, that if I don't beat it soon, that it will kill me... I feel drained of life energy every-time I got lost in anxiety. Sometimes it is hard to tell, if I managed to expose myself or did mental compulsion - because it is so fused with my thinking. And then there is this OCD cruel voice inside me, which is screaming: "You see, you failed again, you missed your last chance to beat me, now you are dead for sure..." Have you encounter something like this?
10 years ago, but yes. I feel you. Sometimes it feels like there's a malevolent tormentor living inside the mind.
How do i know if i have ocd ?
I find it's more useful to focus on the skills we want to build. OCD is just an acronym. How it's applied/used can be quite subjective. I picked up many diagnoses on my adventures. It was more useful to just recognize that I have a brain and I want to learn skills to handle it better.
I and ppl in our whatsap group are severly Suffering from staring ocd v dont have any idea how to overcome... Many says ppl r making fun of them and it worsts with such actions... Severely stressed
It's a very common compulsion. Do you have a question, though, or just wanted to share that?
@@everybodyhasabrain yes plz help us... V r in dead end.. Dont know how to overcome this fear
@@everybodyhasabrain i dont know that ppl notices our stare or not or ocd ppl r just overthinking when someone touches their dress or hides their parts we become so tensed and feel guilty and blame ourselves and that is stores in subconscious. This is key root but dont know to get our due to this i quit my job and my hapiness etc Etc. Many ppl in net are doing business with this disorder saying i overcame and this is the techniques but no one worked even after buying that book
@@everybodyhasabrain i cant even face my parents.. Some times ppl will stare deep into eyes and ill start to nervous because the thing is we dont know how to look and concentrate. The fear of labelling as a wrong person kills a lot. I lost my hapiness plz help
@@daredevil7501 It's great you can see that it's about the fear of being labeled as a wrong person. What helped me get over this was shifting the focus to cutting out compulsions. You mentioned getting over the fear, but I find that's the problem. It's the compulsions that fuel it, not the fear. Trying to get rid of the fear only teaches the brain to obsess about it more.
It’s been a year for me and still no breakthrough 😢
I don't know what that would mean in this context. Any breakthroughs are actions we do. If we cut a compulsion each week and add in something we actually want to be doing, we're nailing those goals. But that doesn't happen to us. We do it.
@@everybodyhasabrain oh okay, ya I’ve just been going through a bad year, don’t like anything anymore, happiness is gone and anxiety every day, I went through OCD in a game, I told myself to push through it and I did and well ya now I’m here 😞
@@JSchinina It could help to approach mental health as sets of patterns. OCD doesn't exist in just something like a game. The patterns of behavior that get us struggling are always much broader. So making changes throughout our lives, inside and outside of us, can be very helpful
Hey Mark: do you think that ERP can help sensorimotor OCD? I am a therapist and have a client who is obsessed with her mouth and tongue since dental work 1.5 years ago. She even says her tongue hurts and is always checking it in the mirror, running tongue over teeth, grinding teeth and putting pressure on tongue ...causing achey tongue..she went to an ENT who checked and there is nothing wrong...I am working with her to try to stop doing anything with her mouth/tongue.....to just feel the feelings ...but she isnt having much luck ....always aware of her tongue .....any advice ? ....
Sure, all of those compulsions would be things she could practice not doing. There's probably a lot of mental checking happening as well. That's also a compulsion she can cut out using ERP but if that's become very automatic, something I often recommend is learning how to cut out that compulsion in other areas that aren't such a big deal to the person. So even if she's accustomed to checking her cellphone for messages throughout the day, that can be a great place to start practicing not checking.
As well, there are a lot of great exercises in Acceptance & Commitment Therapy that could augment this work and help her practice sitting with feelings and, possibly most helpfully, accepting whatever consequences she's afraid of if she doesn't get rid of this. Why does she check in the mirror? Run her tongue over her teeth? Put pressure on her tongue? What would be bad about not doing those things?
The answer to those questions could expose other compulsions that would be useful to tackle with ERP. They might be compulsions that don't seem connected to this but are actually in reaction to the same fear. So as long as she's engaging in those other compulsions, that keeps the fear alive and feeds into these compulsions. Tackling the other compulsions first could be a helpful way to relieve some of the pressure to engage in these compulsions focused around her tongue.
All the best as you help her tackle this!
Thanks Mark ....this all has been very helpful .....yes, she is afraid of cancer/dying etc so there are other compulsions she does as well connected to that i.e checking her pulse etc....I have to commend you for answering all of the comments that come your way....that is pretty amazing ......I have told many of my clients to watch your videos as an adjunct to therapy..... I think people who have experienced these things first hand have so much to give to others.....things you don't find in a classroom...do you have any formal credentialing or are you just an amazing recovered "OCD" expert? I am very impressed by either or both! I am a fairly new therapist and I am learning ACT and ERP on my own because neither was covered in classroom material where I went to school .......I find them both profoundly helpful and you are just amazing!! Thank you .....on behalf of so many who have suffered..........
Thanks for sharing my videos, Deborah! I started out just sharing from my personal experience of recovery but I just recently did a course on Acceptance & Commitment Therapy. It is just a useful tool!
For example how worse can the human become if he took everything positively for example I have thought that I am not human I am just sofa or bed because everyone has relative reality maybe I am some simulation
Mark I have a question, could I get your Gmail, so I could ask you?