Thorgim Grudgebearer's Hammerers Doomstack
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2021
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I love these doomstacks which starts with "let's hide our entire army so enemies can't annihilate it from the very start".
Save my disaster doomstack.
The pains of a melee infantry doomstack, unless you have mass stalk.
It is mostly Legend being Legend and not respecting the units even on Very Hard. Legend cheeses and thats all he does.
@@NegaDruid Hammerers don't deserve respect
@@silverhost9782 that's being added to the book of grudges.
legendoftotalwar : "This would be awful against Skaven"
Not if you are autoresolving every battle.
It takes one pyhric victory for that army to get wiped out by a stack of skaven slaves
Skaven ambushes laugh at autoresolves
@@gustavosanches3454 that is wrong in so deep level that i wont even answer that :)
@@Error-xd1kg dwarves have so much ambush defence chance that, unless you force march you wont get ambushed by AI since they dont spam cunning heroes.
@@edyburkay The number of times I've been ambushed by Skaven while not force-marching tells a much different story. If I've not been in encamp stance, besieging, or in a settlement, I get ambushed by skaven, as dwarfs, pretty regularly. Somehow, Sniktch manages to show up and lead an attack quite often.
STOP! Hammer time 🤟
Hi, here's a cool doomstack, but to use it you need to not use it 😂
You're 100% spot on with the confliction between charging in or defending, I think Hammerers have their uses for sure (As Hammers in the Hammer and Anvil strat, pun intended) but can't really picture them being used as a doomstack. Interesting concept for sure though but I think having a couple of them to compliment a strong frontline of Ironbreakers is what they're best at!
I only recently discovered the beauty of corner camping with chevron formation iron breakers. I forgot how much punishing one unit of them can take.
@@ShootinStarskies the ironbreakers are just the pinnacle of dwarven units, all dawi units can and will take a beating, handing back a good chunk too, and they rarely break either
@@ShootinStarskies i had one ironbreaker surrounded by 8 skaven clanrats and ...... it let me win because those clanrats couldnt do anything to the ironbreakers. Early game ofc
@@perrymeril Sadly range is and will forever be king. The weakness of ironbreakers is ranged damage. That 35% missile resistance is nothing, and their armor is nothing vs Skaven Slave Slingers. You always deal at least 1 damage if you hit, and Slingers deal 1 damage. So they just pelt Ironbreakers to death. If your ironbreaker was surrounded by 8 skaven slingers, it'd have probably been eradicated. :(
@@sethketa no crap. It let my quarrelers thin out the priority targets though and have eight of their units tied up on iron breakers while I'm ambushed... that I was able to get out of a situation I should have lost.
Saw this physical resist stacking on Mercy the Mad a few days back. Hoped you’d get a full doom stack of it to show soon. Nice. Personally I found great success going the Skaven route. Thorgrin, a Thane or two, and a Rune Master to Ward Buff the most heavily impacted Hammerer unit. Three Hammerer units with the banner of physical resist. And 4 Organ Guns and the rest Thunderers. As long as you don’t get out ranges by artillery it works rather well. Even black orcs struggle against 45% physical resist Hammerers, and only range is the real way to knock them out. Very strong if used like carefully, not exactly like skaven meat shields but wide enough to clog three points ahead of your front line. Heros clog the gaps.
I did a similar build but replaced a thunderer with the Skyhammer Gyrobomber, sent that in to deal with any enemy artillery and then pull it back to the frontline melee to bomb the shit out of their troops xD
@@Beowulf-eg2li yeah Gyrobombers are great arty snipers in my experience. one or 2 volleys and it's destroyed
Yeah but all melee build is great against Skaven ambushes - which you are going to have to deal with as Thorgrim
@@damo9961 Not really, an all melee army prevents you from countering Skaven weapon teams or skirmishers like Gutter Runners. If you are constantly ambushed by Skaven you are doing something wrong anyway.
I thought MercyTheMad's video showcased a hammerer unit with 40 ward save from the runesmith magic. The 4 runesmiths there makes it so that one keeps the buff up while the others are on cooldown. Giving them up to 85% physical resistance
24 seconds duration
120 seconds cooldown
Yeah my version was not a doomstack though, just 3-4 units of buffable super hammerers that can hit 85% phys resist temporaily
@@MercytheMad Wow, thanks for clarifying and love both your channels! Keep it up guys!
@@andersalkjaer4745 Thanks mate!
If an army is less good than a basic standard army, I'd either rate it 4 or 5 out of 10, simply because it doesn't even measure up to the average.
Except the typical end game dwarf army is about a 6 or 7, the 0-10 scale is a overall rating of how good an army is, so it's not taking into account the average army of the faction, but rather what's a meh army you could make in the game that'd be just basic and average at everything. It'd be like doing a balanced army with Empire, namely consisting of spears, archers, maybe one or two mortars, and a general or some other hero and a bad lore of magic wizard or no wizard at all. While a 2 or 3 out of 10 army would probably be something like skeleton spam without a good caster, or gor spam again without a good caster.
One or 2 units of Ogre cav could really give it the final touch
This is the doomstack I've been wanting to see. I love the idea of a bunch of grumpy, armoured dwarfs bashing everything with a giant hammer.
I'm the Guy sending that one in. I think its a fair assesment overall, its definitely not the strongest stack, and it would be better if you just built s standard Dwarf Army with Hammerer Front Line with Runes. It was mostly built for the fun.
Anyways, I was actually surprised how well they do even agains Vampire Coast Armies, so i sent it in. Its definitely a Strong Army, and it works better against most factions than you'd expect, but against something like Dark Elves or Skaven, it clearly is very weak (wich is why i put them up against Dark Elves, I wanted to see how they perform against their Hard counter, and well, at least they won ^^). When I tried the battle I was able to win it without hiding the Hammerers and without losing a Unit, so its definitely doable.
Anyways, it's of course a Memestack and I didnt expect it to get a really High Score. But be honest guys: who of you could resist building that when getting 3 master runes of Grugni in the course of your campaign as Thorek?
This feels like a dreadful army for facing dark elves, because they almost always have dark conduit. In fact, if morathi had dc active then this battle might have been unwinnable.
Not quite. AI uses it first chance they get. You'd have them waste the charges on heroes.
@@keithemerson7662 fair point. I usually see them try to barrel a hero past my heroes into my infantry (spread out and focus firing for this very reason), but then I usually don't hide my entire army unless I feel the need to waste ammo. I've never seen them waste a conduit on a single entity if there was any infantry at all, but that might just mean I didn't notice.
I know right? Isn't it a rite and garrison building ability? In my campaigns they have it nigh permanently.
@@arcadius2569 Its an abiltiy from a right i think :)
They use it right when your unit stuck in their, doesnt matter if your unit is a single entity. I use that to bait and kill half of skaven stack before ( doom rocket)
That Thorek Ironbrow is a doomstack just with quarrelers. I had 145 missile strength on them! It was insane!
Only 145?
So originally I told mercy about a potential hammerer idea to get to max physical resistance. But it would only work on 3 hammerers and require something like 9 runesmiths minimum. Also it would need 3 engineers for their temporary physical resistance buff. And you could also stack 3 thanes for perfect vigor. Literally wasn’t a practical build at all, but it was more of a joke bc of how hard he tried to make white lions good. But then when he talked about it on stream, ppl must’ve misunderstood and thought hammerers were actually good enough to doomstack on their own. But yeah no, you actually need 90% resistance, otherwise they’ll die to almost anything.
It's true I think everyone wants to make Hammerers work now not just because of those small resistance buffs but now they also do splash attacks (hitting 2 units instead of 1 per attack according to the patch notes).
Yeah, I wasn't trying to make them a doomstack, just trying to see if having a few buffed hammerers in Thorgrim's army is viable/useful at all now.
Grombrindal not only gives them 35% speed, but he also gives them extra Armor Piercing damage, and if you are the defender you get even more AP damage and 10 melee defense. The army could also have three Thanes buffing the Hammerers' vigour so that they can keep running at full speed without getting tired.
The runesmiths should also be using the overcasted rune of speed on them, that would be the perfect hammerer rush Doomstack
I like how Legen laughs after explaining why it would be awful against skaven! ))
Gyrocopter doomstack is insane now with the engineer's ammo replenish
@Eneachril Beneathar Congrats on your Doomstack mate!
I had an all razorgor chariot doomstack last game with a beastlord, mage, and 10 wargors on razorgor chariots. Worked really well for me.
I just finished a thorek campaign, man I love all of the new character runes as well as the 2 army abilities you get from gathering pieces and reforging the thorek specific runes, some of them are really good to keep in reserve and pop on a lord or heroes that have weaker armies or who you can foresee getting into trouble within the next few turns. With that army ability that provides invulnerability to all units in a large area of effect you don't even need to protect your back lines. I actually gave the enemy an opening straight into my artillery, popped the rune down when they got there and slaughtered all of their fast units with quarellers, the rune will last long enough to kill or route them all if you have enough quarellers. Since you're likely going up against greenskins for a large part of the campaign that is huge because they send tons of boar boy big'uns and savage boar boy big'uns at you. The only complaint I have with the dwarf update is the shared cooldown on all of the runes is a bit too long, but I fixed that problem with a mod a made for myself 🤣. I know I know, I'm a cheater lol.
rate a quarreler doomstack by Thorek
I was shocked at how my quarrlers were out preforming thunderers. The damage and range made me think I had juiced up dark shards for a min.
@@Boxfortress They are amazing now! Especially with the artefact!
@@Boxfortress On vanilla I had like 140 ranged dps on the unit with Thorek. They become pretty nutty at rank 9 with all the buffs. Feels like they're firing semi-auto.
@@flaviomonteiro1414 they are basically seaguards with more armor.
It'd have to be 10/10, right? In a balanced army they already excel against nearly every unit type and the fringe ones that are annoying are like, lords and heroes with hard to hit models that still take heavy damage if they get hit. Much less having 10-12 of them, a frontline of runesmiths for lowering enemy army missile resistance, one engineer and maybe a couple of grudgethrowers for sieges.
With enough leverage you can lift the world.....or was it, hiding...I can never remember
lol you were generous with the rating
I did Hammerers and Gyrocopters. Full commitment to the rush.
Probably getting couple of Ogre units to chase missiles would be great help here. 6.5 looks like a proper rating.
dwarf growth so obnoxiously slow this would be a pain in the ass to build
I agree.
Love the dwarf rework.
This could be devastating against Chaos and Vampires
Might want to bring one Thane. Since the new patch, Thanes can get a trait in the skill tree for Hammers, forgot on top of my head of what it can do.
Should be a vigor buff if I remember correctly.
legend what do you think about a new series on comparing doomstacks to each other
Each will be compared to its respective classmates
For example a single entity monster doomstack vs another single entity monster doomstack
And you can discuss their pros and cons and at the end making a winner
I myself am very interested to know your opinion about Gorghon doomstack vs Dragon Ogre Shaggoth doomstack and also dwarfs thane doomstack vs beastmen gorebull doomstack
I think that would be a very fun series
I like iron breakers + artillery and troll hammer or other short range high damage units in the corner with a rune of spite lord. It works well.
It's hammer time
I, for one would've liked to see the dwarfs get doomed as you try to use the doomstack as intended.
New Title "Dark Elves Get Hammered"
One of my first battles in my thorgrim campaign i realized how bad the hammerers performed, i had a skaven mage lord of plague surrounded with them and it still took about 5 minutes to kill him. I am personally quite dissapointed that melee infantry wasn't addressed in WH3, especially damage dealer trait infantry.
this melee army would have a blast with chaos armies lol
I think the runesmiths are able to get the physres even higher.
Replace the two Organ guns with bolt thrower and you have a LOTR Dwarf army
Strollaz' Rune gives vanguard and +20% speed, and might close the gap fast enough
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
LOL. This reminds me of my Chaos Warriors campaign.
I had a siege where my Runesmith got 1500 kills :O took a really long time to do it using Wrath and Ruin, but hey was better than fighting the enemy properly.
that army is far below 5/10 imo
the cost of that army is HIGH and it just cant perform even on a "normal" army with diferent tier units level.
You are basically trading everything good the Dwarfs can bring to the table to use flanking infantry that is vulnerable to missile fire as frontline infantry. Big brain moment right here.
Dwarf hero's are op, esp the white dwarf, and I love it!
if you want a melee doomstack for dwarfs, maybe it will be better to use Ungrim and his slayers.
Ungrim with rune of spite already a one man doomstack and with properly build slayers army hi even more powerfull.
Any of the dwarf lords with that rune are a one man doomstack tho, so that isn't saying much
Ungrim cannot make slayers tanky enough to doomstack. They just die
@@dalemoses2443 true. But maybe it worth try use them with rune of Grungni. Which give them temporary invulnerability.
Huh, I don't know why but I never realised that shields are essentially missile resist, at least when getting shot head-on.
Artillery could be their to force the enemy to attack and kill enemy range and artillery
i think that in order to boost up the power of the Dwarves CA should just give them massive amounts of missile resistance so that their speed isn’t as detrimental.
So this would be interesting vs chaos
why don't they remove the unit notification? the function sucks when you cant click on units to issue commands
I did something similar to this as soon as the update launched with 3 units of hammerers at 45% phys resist. They seem to still be a trash unit, underperforming iron breakers in kills and still nearly being wiped out every single battle. Since it's Fun to be loreful, I might take 1 unit per army and spam ward save on it from a rune smith since the entire enemy army will focus fire on them but including large amounts of them just means they function as much worse iron breakers in most situations.
The dwarves are the hammer the back of the dark elves are the anvil
Gotta hit the flattest side for maximum hammering :p
With enough hammering any side is the flattest side.
Maybe it would be better with a few more Organ guns since I don't really see it as being a good rush army but I think it can perform good as a missile army
Dwarves attempting a doomstack is just painful to watch.
Waiting for a new grudgeraker engineer doomstack.
Meh, I don't see how this physical resistant is doing anything. Probably a standard dwarven doomstack with tunderers and more artillery would have done the same or better.
100% better, i text something similar like this last night when legend steam and it just feel like dawi best at what they know for.... TANK
The rating is more than fair
You can actually get Thorgrim Grudgebearer to about 15k HP, if you get gore-drenched, that one item, throt, and traits in his yellow skill line
Hmm I wonder if it would work better cycling the hammers into combat and using the ward save from the rune smiths on the ones in combat. Only problem is that they are still so slow…
Sometimes you learn Basic info after 700 hours of warhammer 2, for example that you can reocupy siege guns if they left them.
You could swap out the arty fpr bombers and have one of the heroes as belegars heros for siege attack, would give you more flexibility.
I mean, being able to global recruit rank 4 hammerers in one turn seems really powerful. Who cares if you lose a few in the auto? Just recruit a bunch more, merge the really bad ones and attack the next turn.
Of course, and auto resolver isn't really considered a doomstack. But I can definitely see the value.
Harsh?? 6.5 was VERY generous.
Stop!.... Hammer time!
from my assessment an Organ Cannon is worth 4 Hammerer units from that battle
Looks like Thorgrim just wasn't blessed with a melee infantry stack like Wurrzag or Ungrim. Somewhat related, I find it strange that Thorgrim's Hammerers give Guardian but Malekith's personal bodyguards don't.
If there were 3 Thanes in the army they could have provided the Hammerers with effectively Perfect Vigour, which might have helped a bit in chasing down the enemy in particular.
Doesn‘t help. 28 vs 37 speed is too much of a difference.
I think that rushing with this army should be done in a very particular, micro-intensive way. First, don't use wide one-line formation, use rows of 4 units with heroes in front. One of the units in the first row should be given missile resist aura-rune, 2 heroes should be equipped with missile resist aura-item. When you see enemy's missile units concentrating their fire on one of the first row hammerers you should use Rune of 40% wardsave on it. In fact I believe 4 runesmiths specifically are key to rushing, while Legend uses them as kinda bad thanes mostly. With 2 runes of speed and 2 runes of 40% save you should be able to just close the distance taking minimal damage.
13! Legend is-is skaven yes-yes!
Hammerer doom stack.. but spends first half of battle microing everything else in the army and hiding the hammerers.. lol. ive struggled trying to use these guys.. there basically slow dwarf cavalry, run around the line and charge into rear of enemy line.
What a mess.. nice play
I do the same DS but with Engineers and Thunderers instead of Rune Smiths and Hammeres.... so it does not suck...
Should of gotten a thane, they can just give 15% physical resist to Hammerers.
This vs the Skaven Throt Plague Monk Censor Bearers would be interesting to see. I think Skaven would win
Hammerers should be better than what they are
Completely agree, they are elite infantry after all.
there is no dorf "doom stack" that doesnt have a couple units of cav to catch fast archer units.
You can just shoot archers can't you
Trollhammer torpedoes still the best
They can buff them all they want but there is never a circumstance where I'll recruit hammerers over ironbreakers. With their low speed and lack of shields they attract enemy missiles more than giants.
CS needs to records some more audio for the dawi...they should be yelling “attacks the druchii” or something...they just keep yelling “attack the orcs!”
The person yelling that must be looked down upon In these moments. Like he was one of the hammerers that survived countless battles against the orcs, but took many hits too the head and now just kinda repeats “attacks the orcs!” The same way groot says “I am groot”
“Attack the orcs!”
Like the Thorgim in the title, instead of Thorgrim
Sometimes feels like Dark Elves should be renamed "Dark Conduit and Black Ark Abilities" as a faction. Those seem to do 80% of the damage every time.
No wonder they run over Ulthuan all the time, the buffs they get from those make a stack of Dreadspears beat any midgame HE army.
How does a dwarf in full plate sitting on a metal throne being carried around by 4 other dwarves also in full plate "stalk" ?
The stole Sniktcs Catayan silk slippers.
Tbh runes are ok not great but i think rune of slowness should have an aoe effect like the rune of speed
Not a very good doomstack but they can be a lot faster if you use the rune of speed, its area effect so perfect for hammerers blob
So is it just me or did the rangers of the high elves got changed too with the update?
Unit cards changed for a bunch of units including rangers
I think all new units after warden and paunch update got new unit card
Huh, oddly enough, in my thorgrim mortal empires campaign not once did I ever get hammerers
Just stormbreakers and gyrocopters and Irondrakes and heroes everywhere to naw down enemies before they get close!🤣
What's a storm breaker
How is it possible for the new dwarfs to reruit so much in one turn using global recruitment? do they have some building for global recruitment like lizardmen have for slann recruit lvl?
They have a building for plus 1 global slot.
Just like Empire and Bret
This is the only way to make Hammerers work. If you have 1-2 units they will be singled out by the AI arty and overkilled.
Hold on a minute ... "Dwarfs" and "charging" ?!&%???!$%!"
DOES NOT COMPUTE!
How to achieve ironbreaker global recruitment in 1 turn?
Fimir balefire doomstack when ?
Why does he have 4 runesmiths but not their armour buff?
Armor stats falls off and isn't as useful when there's so much armor piercing.
So I'm confused here if someone could help me out. My understanding of what a heroic victory was is a battle that you win but the Auto resolve has no business thinking you could possibly win , However if legend had auto resolved this he would have won and only lost two hammerers so..... How does the game decide what is a Heroic victory from a Decisive victory?
Victory status is determined by casualties taken versus casualties inflicted
@@dublinerscraic7946 That's odd because if that's the case I feel like I should get far more Heroic Victories especially when I play Lizards and Run a Life Slann and Dinosaurs doomstack.
@@MRJOKER1570- casualties including total damage given and taken lol
@@dublinerscraic7946 As well as ammo used/remaining.
1:18 I've never played this total war game but did you say defeat "HEINRICH HIMMLER"?
Heinrich Kemmler, a Necromancer lord for the Vampire Counts.
@@blalhoihreuf kind of disappointed himmler isnt in this game because that would be hilarious
Legend, you could blob up and cycle runes of negations. You would have 70%+ resistance to dmg. You haven't used a single rune of negation during this combat.
thats because it only affects 1 unit now. It got nerfed. No longer provides it in an area. Blobbing up would just make their black ark abilities destroy the hammerers
Okay How is he getting that recruitment time globally down to one turn? For the longest time I thought it was rune forges, but in a recent campaign I did I've built tons of rune forges and the recruit time for Ironbreakers is still like 4 turns globally.
It's one of Belegar's points
Really shows how shit melee infantry compared to ranged units
On Very Hard battle difficulty. On normal and hard I'd say they are not as shit.
@@narxes Even if you are playing on easy, it doesn't change the fact that ranged units are way more effective than melee units. Every ranged unit is too accurate and fires too quickly in this game. They should also make it so low tier ranged units like archers do hardly any damage against armor
@@pickleinspector5948 Warhammer 3 is going to be so much worse, as well. Khorne is likely going to be trash tier, and Kislev will likely be middle to high tier simply because most of their units are ranged. Unless they implement some fundamental changes, WH3 might be plagued with the same sucky ranged meta.
@@sethketa I hope they balance it better but I also don't want them to do their usual and over balance something like what they did to poo depth guard who were amazing and now are dog shit :(
I don't want range to be useless I just want melee to be viable
Or how broken ranged is in this game.
I think it's more a 6... not even 6.5
Does AP damage bypass physical resist?
No. AP damage bypasses Armor, magical damage (from a weapon that says it inflicts magical damage, for example) bypasses Physical.
No.
This would be my siege battle doomstack