EV Van Challenge: Ford v Fiat PT1 First Impressions | Fifth Gear
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2023
- Vicki and Karun test two EV's. The Ford E-transit and the Fiat E-Ducato undergoing some tests along the way!
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The Ducato has a much larger payload. That has always been their USP.
I priced the fiat van at £35k ish in my head. Not double, what on earth
So glad Fifth Gear took over from when that 'other' Gear programme went stupid & all they did was wreck old cars & race others, your show shows what we wish to know about vehicles & give us a report & we can do our choosing when buying one, long live Fifth Gear
So im curious, as someone that works with motorhomes. Motorhomes that are made on the Fiat chassie can take a lot more cargo and the Ford is almost unusable due to its low cargo capacity.
How does the simpler van version compare!?
I realise that the "focus" of vans is for commercial operations mostly around the city, but I use my Trafic (diesel) for hauling my dirt bike into the country. A 200 mile (say 320km) range would get me out to where I ride, but only halfway back, but that would be at best. I have to go over some mountainous routes that would eat into the range and then add in up to 400kg of load (2 bikes, gear, etc), well that range is going to drop substantially. And there are absolutely no charge points on the route. So they may work for city purposes but definitely not for a lot of us recreational users.
I doubt that a van driver that work 8h days can drive it all day, so does it even work for them!?
I wonder about home charging a big van . you will need a big drive , especially if you have an ev car to charge too. I too run a trafic diesel, The load height of a transit is very high in comparison . i expect the ev to be no better
@@NikesZ28We have several e-Transits at my job. For our use, they can go two shifts before it needs charging. So for the use they are designed for, urban delivery and other uses that drives less than 200 miles a day, they work very well.
I'm amazed they manufacturers don't have a solar roof option. Probably thin film solar to help with aero on these bricks, if it's parked at a job site for hours then having at least 1kw of solar which is very doable even on the shortest wheelbases can add up. On long trips or motorway stuff, it wouldn't help, it might at best lower consumption slightly (maybe an extra mile or two of range) but it just wouldn't double motorway range.
But I'm amazed that there is a lot that could be done, low rolling resistance bearings and grease, insulating the battery pack (best I can think of is something like a ceramic coating, the thing they put on exhausts and turbos to lower temps in the engine bay of race cars). Each little bit can add up and make these thing way better.
Oh its way worse than that. They tested them empty and on slow roads in dry, light conditions.
Pretty much a best case for ev's.
Load them and go at higway speeds and that range won't just drop a bit - it will plummet like a stone off a cliff.
I would be surprised if the Transit could get much over 100 miles at 70mph - let alone loaded, in the rain, in the cold or all the other things that ev's seem to hate.
A van like this should have a minimum of 100 kwh batteries. They should be doing what Rivian do with their vans and build the vehicles around the battery not around a current van. To me that's just cheating us out of any potential range the van might have.
Strange that Ford have a larger battery option in the Mach-E car, than they do in this much larger van. Surely a larger battery should be available at least as on option. Though 68kWh is good enough for most people.
That last sentence answers your point. Ford did the research, and built the van to the needs of the vast majority of potential users. A bigger battery would weigh and cost more, without substantially increasing the usefulness for the target market.
@@JonathanEzor potentially, though the sceptic in me wonders if they deliberately decided against a large battery option to try keep the diesel option relevant.
Bigger battery reduces the payload, and a van is likely be put on charge on site every night?
It’s due to weight, they want to keep it below 3.5t as that’s what you can drive on a car licence in europe, bigger battery means lower payload capacity
4:07 Guys, come on. It's 2023. The unit you are looking for is kilowatt-hour.
I'm a courier driver and do up to 300 miles per day. I just can't see any courier drivers Inmy sector ever go electric unless the range at least doubles and the price drops massively
Note the battery sizes are tiny. 47kWh is the same as a Peugeot e208 hatch back. Seems like Van makers do not want to put big batteries in vans.
For a real world user experience, Amazon mostly use electric versions of the Mercedes vans around here, with the occasional Transit popping up.
That Ducato is ancient, it's been on sale in one form or another since 2006. They desperately need a fully new model.
70 grand for a nearly 20 year old van? No thank you!
Due in Q3 2024
@@michelebicc6983 That and the low range would explain why it's staying in Europe, I suppose the Ram E-ProMaster will wait for the next generation.
It would be acceptable to be an old model if it was only 10k.
47kWh for a large ban is insanely small. FYI A Peugeot e208 hatchback basically has the same battery size.
£70k..... Whhhaaatttt!!!!
Nice video.A pity, that the sound is soooo soft.
Unfortunately it was very far from a proper range test. 😑😔 I still like you guys, but you can do it better, just like before. 😉
Yet the figures were perfectly accurate and realistic. The test were fine. You should do better.
Ford E-Transit is brilliant, but it needs a "long range" battery option.
Cost is the main issue with that but I do think they should be able to do a "long range" (300miles) version in a couple of years for a similar price but until then it will still suit a good percentage of courier services needs if they have somewhere to charge overnight, or when changing stations become more common and reliable. Some of the better EV's can already do 10-80% (140 miles top up for this van) in less than 30 minutes .
Callum Curtis The e-transit that I had from Ford for 1 week. Would only do a real world range of 110 to 120 miles....
@@mikadavies660 That may be true if it's just purely motorway driving but like I said it would still do for a lot of people/ companies out there . In fact my company's van will do at most 200 miles in a day and that's if we have work in London , most of the time less than 100 miles so we could quite easily just charge it on the way back from London if only I trusted the network for doing that .
I agree, with the weight of tools, parts and materials that I carry and the mileage I go thru everyday from customers to customers this won't be enough, not to mention the price for one here, i'll stick w/ the gas or diesel model.
I loved fifth gear as much as top gear but CZcams isn’t the place for it not enough views.
How long do these vehicles need to charge? What the loading height? Whats the range when loaded to the gunnels? They always do these tests aimed at delivery drivers . What about trades people ?. In my work experience, an ev would be pretty useless and way too expensive . Also where do you charge the damn thing? If you do not have a yard you will need a big driveway . Especially if you have other cars in the household . . I wonder what dereciation will be like? Also how viable a 15 year old one will be as a buying option ?
I’m a heating engineer and bought an e-transit after three Sprinters, the last being a 5 tonne hgv.
Not a Transit van fan; but have to say this is by far the best van I’ve ever owned. Most have been bought new, so I can compare cost.
Range of my loaded L3H2 version is 126m very cold weather and 155m hot weather. You will typically get more than this in built up areas.
Dimensions are identical to standard Transit as load bay unaltered
@@gruhwch4876 Glad to hear its good for you . I was a diouble glazing fitter and i never liked transits or sprinters for they were high to get in at the rear . . i always preferred a frontvwheel drive to get the lower rear bed . Basically though you just got the cheapest van going . Mostly we would be travelling fair distances too .i shall be glad to retire
@@julesdowner5585 I echo the retirement thing, trouble is I keep spending the money so need to keep working!
The Transit does ride high, I assume this is to give clearance to the batteries which are mounting low across the chassis
Delivery and shuttle bus are the ideal use cases for electrification. At some point Ford should offer the F150 Lightning battery pack in a Transit but they'd need the capacity for that first.
You missed one critically important problem with the Ducato - FIAT have placed the charging port where you would normally have the fuel cap i.e. behind the passenger door. The cables on many of the existing charging stations won't reach this far! I think the Ford is still on the front corner.
That’s the old Ducato, the the new one is much much more polished inside.
Well they have just put in a new dashboard. Chassie is the same.
But much better diesel engine now when they made it together with PSA.
@@NikesZ28 diesel engines in the “new” Ducato are still Fiat-engineered (2.2 Multijet III “FPT Pratola Serra”). Also, FCA Powertrain is developing a new MHEV Euro7 diesel for the next gen Stellantis vans.
Audio is still too quiet.....Why!!
Sorry? Could you speak up a little when asking your questions? 😊
Not bad for £65
I would still buy a Diesel transit over both as soon as you load them up the range battery drops dramatically.
"drops dramatically" is very wrong. Starting at the Ford's battery size and starting range. The range drop from cargo will not have a large impact.
What load did you have in the back, I'm guessing nothing. Try again fully loaded in the winter and the result would be very poor for the range. We are still a few years away from having a workable EV van.
Hould have ran them with a fullload or half load till they died to see the real world range. Did they mention payloads I may have missed it. Thats very important in a test comparison like this.
In a word… interesting
Empty van?
I've seen electric Transits , Sprinters , Crafters but I've never seen eDucato.
70k!!!!!!!
70k?? 130 odd miles?? Absolutely pointless and ludicrously expensive.
Correct. All EV's are Pointless Agenda Ridden Expensive , Low Range P.O.S.
But say it just does a bunch of stop-and-go stops on a route in a single day 130 Mi maybe long enough
@@zapcity8992 when it’s fully loaded you’d be lucky to get 70-80 miles
Not a real test for Britain?!
Unloaded, not in cold conditions(when was the last time you drove your car van without the heater on( excluding may-sept)), and should be over a hundred miles, not 7🤔
Vans need a minimum of 100kWh battery, surely? The have such a large flat floorspace too, to sling it under.
Above a maximum weight of 3500kg, it is officially a lorry. So it would require a truck drivers licence and be limited to a 90km/h top speed.
70 grand for a van🤯
Transits have been rust magnets for decades so longevity of production is nothing to be proud of.
MAKE VANS THAT LAST LIKE CARS.
Renault, Nissan, Vauxhall, Fiat can do it.
Why are sprinters and transits just rust magnets.
70K is a bit much 😅😅😅😅😅
WHy the hell are they not investing in Hydrogen??
If you buy anything you DON'T want a ford badge on it!
Transit is too powerful for that chassis
Why would you do a range test and A not drive them till they ran out of charge and B WHY would not fully load the vans to there maximum weight load capacity. Why guess what you think it would do Why not show us exactly what they can do ,Car wow do much better vehicle tests now days .5 th gear you really need to up your game .maybe interview real drivers of these vehicle's and get their views and opinions on them and not yours I want to here from someone who will be spending 9 hours a day in these vans and not the 8 minutes your video took to watch.
i think they said they were going to do 3 tests, and as this video is only one test there is the possibility of more 2 videos to come
Why test them unladen? Makes no sense. Not a real life test.
The E transit is a brilliant van. Superb to drive , quiet, fast and smooth, but battery is just not big enough for serious use though. And that price needs to drop.
yeah most van drivers do 400 miles a day
I bought a Fiat Talento, the worst mistake I ever made. The Turbo failed after approximately 13000 miles, the van has only now done 17000 miles and it will cost £1000 for a new Turbo and £2500 labour to fit it within the Stellantis network. Terrible quality in my opinion.
Why did you not stay in lane on the roundabout? Incidently our local parcels has gone back to diesel as the driving styl is flat out between drops. ev useless.
Van fuel is tax deductible so who cares. Furthermore the battery and load capacity?
Goodbye FIAT.
any thing that is Fiat and Italian electrics ,plus such a small service network compared to to Ford, it is a no brainer the E-Transit all the way, Fiat just leave it on the lot 💩
Thats why 99% of motorhomes are ducatos in europe, while there are millions of them working hard daily. The transit is only common palace in the uk, a place desperately out of touch
That's why Fiat is one of the best in these
You haven't bothered to do a range test for more than 7(!) miles. Why should I bother following your show
£70k for a Fiat you are having a laugh. The best expensive Fiat ever.
I’ve owned 2 fords and they were junk. Never again. Junk.
I love your videos, can I get a comment heart?❤
That Ducato electric is complete junk, but I can definitely see that eTransit selling. 7k more than the base model diesel (105hp) is very good. the higher spec diesel transit with 170hp and an auto is probably only about 2 grand cheaper than this, if even.
Even if they were priced even the diesel is a far more capable vehicle. Payload, towing, range, refuel times - all are better and some massively so.
When electricity was ultra cheap there was an argument for them in terms of cost but since Vladdy boy took his little stroll to the wrong side of the border electric went up so much the diesel is cheaper to run apart form in ultra congested city use.
Oh and the idea it must need an auto as an argument is just simping for ev's. Everywhere apart from the US work vans are nearly all manual for a few reasons.
most sprinter vans are automatic.
200 miles is more than enough for a shift at a delivery company like amazon or ups
they don't need to tow or need a super large payload. 1 ton is more than enough.
petrol or diesel vans do not need to be driving around housing estates with drivers that have heavier foots than the vans themselves. creating tons of noise. i'm not "simping" for ev's, personally i do not think they are the future for all vehicles and i do myself own a diesel (an ultra-clean diesel) and plan on buying diesels until they are off the market (hopefully no time soon).
@@aidan1585 So for use around housing estates, on short runs, with light loads and drivers who aren't paid by the amount they get done in a day they're great.
Oh and when it comes to resale time they need to find new owners with the same exact needs but who can live with even less range and the potential for a massive battery repair bill.
Got it.
I wonder why the best selling vans for decades have been the ones which (in general) offer the lowest running costs and the largest breadth of abilities?
Oh and the Sprinter being auto doesn't seem to have helped it much. According to Parkers Transits outsold them 2:1 so far this year and if you include the Transit Custom thats 4:1- hardly showing auto's are sought after.
The Transits took number one and two in sales with the Sprinter in sixth.
The Ducato isn't even in the top 10 which is hardly surprising considering how old it is and how outdated they feel to drive.
Shoving a battery under any and charging extra while having less ability isn't likely to be a great sales success.
I'll wait to see the sales figures and I'm happy to concede if I'm wrong but now electrics cost pretty much on par with diesels to run they offer very few upsides.
Quiet - if you're in a city in daytime you're hardly going to notice and anything above about 20mph there's pretty much no difference anyway.
Auto is nice if you're in traffic all day but would you buy an electric Ducato or a Sprinter diesel when they cost pretty much the same? The answer for almost all business owners is neither because you would go for that 105hp Transit and save £7k towards diesel while doing so - which is why they (and vans like them) keep topping the sales.
They can do any job a van needs to do.
@@siraff4461 had an electric for 5 years and I can tell you the battery health dropped by a whopping 2%!!!! I'd say that DESTROYED the resale value!!!!
@@aidan1585 Well thats it then. From your sample of one we can guarantee everyone is having the same experience.
I've had electrics in one form or another since 2010. The worst was probably my Leaf and the best probably my model S.
My Leaf (had from new) dropped 8% in the first year. My Zoe (also new) 4% year one and 7% by the end of year two - though the on board computer suggested it hadn't dropped at all.
The model S (again new) only dropped 2% in the year I had it but we've all seen the reports on how well they last.
I would love to know what you had, mileage, use and how you measured it because unless it spent almost all of its time on the drive that sounds like fairytale land.
Fifth Gear: To the person who edited this video: Please for the love of all things Holy - STOP PUTTING VIGNETTING on videos. It looks shit and out dated. Aside from that, great comprehensive video.
Fca should be ashamed - the fiat/promaster is complete junk!
Having bin forced to drive a ducato I wouldn't touch one in a million years, awful vans totally unreliable. Transit every day .
been
Diesel 600 miles without going near re fueling and will run on carbon neutral fuel. Electric vans are crap.
Carbon neutral fuels are terribly inefficient so it will never be a solution suited for mass adoption.
What carbon neutral diesel do you use in your van these days? If I knew where to buy it at a reasonable price, I would go out of my way to get it.
@@connclissmann6514 HVO is more or less ‘carbon neutral’.