Happy Holidays, friends! Let me know if you got the Christmas easter egg somewhere in this video ;) Also, I made a FREE post about Robin's dark world over on Patreon, so be sure to check it out if you want to: www.patreon.com/posts/94626431 Thank you all so much for making 2023 the best year of this channel. You guys are awesome!!
you forgot about the robin in cw series ( that series has all 3 versions of Robin ) The only version of Robin i liked was nightwing because it shows us the true potential of Robin, ok he has some weakness but he is the next batman also i know Red hood would destroy nightwing ( because he doesnt holdback )
@@NektarSSJ i dont think TDK is a generic action film but i do agree that its over rated. Oh and Nightwing>Red Hood, hes just more skilled overall and has more experience in pretty much all areas.
@@theofficialmb1255 yep all the Robins were dope in their own unique ways. They all have their own backstories, (although at 1st Jason was a carbon copy of Dick but eventially they got his backstory right which involved adding him getting caught stealing the tires off the batmobile), they each have their own fighting style and 3 out of 4(Dick, Jason, Tim, not Damion) were able to bypass Robin and become successful in their own right althought to wildly differing degrees of success. Ps- i know it probably wont happen but i really wish we could get classic Tim back and have him be with Steph. Also wish we could get Damion and young Jon back as Super Sons because that book was a ton of fun. Im probably in the minority on this 1 but even though i rlly do like Dick with Babs, Id rather see him with Starfire.
Agreed I barley see anybody talk about it despite it being pretty good. Maybe not as a amazing as The Long Halloween story but still is a great follow up sequel that grows Batman to becoming a father and his relationship with Robin is excellent and really heartwarming despite it surrounding a grizzly new serial killer mystery. Dark Victory has to be one of most underrated Batman stories if you ask me
@@ehmwhy Dick digs his digs. Wanting to show off his thighs is the canonical reason he chose to keep his circus look for his costume lol until he later he rationalizes that it makes criminals underestimate him, making them drop their guard more often or focus on him while Bats is sneaking around.
I respect Robin so much. I wouldn’t be a Batman fan without Robin. Sorry, but Robin is the reason I’m Batman fan because I see Batman through his perspective
batman: dick clearer version of what batman was meant to be jason is willing to do what batman can't do when the world needs it tim has strategic sense i envy i have never seen him move too early
I agree that Robin, specifically Dick Grayson, being as young as he is when Batman takes him in is incredibly essential to the character which is why I always hated when during the New 52 they condensed most of Batman and many DC heroes' histories into about 5 years and somehow saying that Dick was adopted when he was a teenager.
New 52 and zack snyder and nolans batman are trash interpretations cause they never want to embrace batmans middle years of taking on side kicks and the greater dc universe such as supernatural and meta humans constantly keeping batman grounded in heavy armors
@@zemox2534new 52 was a huge financial success for DC and it had quite a few good books, i only really loved Batman, Aquaman, & Green Lantern personally though. DC had Rebirth around 2016 which fixed alot of issues ppl had from New 52 and Rebirth was everything New 52 shouldve been imo, because nearly every book that came out was interesting.
To be honest, I've always read Dark Victory's Robin plot as Dick being just as motivated for revenge as Bruce was. Even after the reveal, Bruce tried to shut Dick out of the life of Batman, but Dick kept forcing his way in, even inventing his own identity and fighting the Joker when he got into the Cave. The ending was Bruce caving and allowing him to become a vigilante as well. Robin can work if he's a carbon copy of Bruce at that age. Bruce's goal would then become preventing Dick from ending up just like him. Ultimately, that's what Nightwing became: What Batman was supposed to be. So, "It doesn't work" isn't entirely true. It's just that it's a Dark Victory.
While I can understand not using Robin in any live action Batman movie because of how unrealistic it is, but at the same time I don't like my Batman media being realistic it to me just makes it boring comic book adaptations should escapist fun. I think this comic did as good as a job as it can using Robin as both Batman's heart and humanity while also grounding him in a realistic setting.
Batman lives in a world of meta humans gods and monsters most his rogues are monster men giants whos henchmen to a insane asylum psychiatrist who commits crimes while trying to get into the psychology of career criminals, a vampire in his early books not even counting dracula in a non canon comic a zombie who's been active in gotham long before batman was a thing when a nigga in a red and green suit using a magical ring to fight crime who's weakness is wood this zombie nigga is litterally in the long halloween movies adapt into grounded realism harvey dent hangs out with and batman gives him a plate of food, a latino luchadore nigga with a super soilder steroid drug that makes him captian america that's hulk sized temporarily with the intellect to figure who batman really is under the mask by looking at his jaw line and following him home to soften bats up to throw hands, a shape-shifting werebat man, men and women who can change into clay golems, in the possible future of the dc universe has a radioactive skeleton man a guy with a freeze gun who's evolved and adapted to being a cryomancer living in below zero temperature a were crocodile cannibal man who has the abilities of a alligator or crocodile a failed comedian ex gangster or former mantle criminal identity turned into clown with two other people that has the same consciousness who has a family out there he thought died in an accident but were still alive cheated on his wife for a stalker psychiatrist who fell in love with his b.s. sob story and puts up with his abusive relationship and she goes full lesbian at the last minute because he wanted to carve her face off that one time who purchases weapons of mass destruction from a african country and beat the system several times without getting the death penalty or sent to a serious max penitentiary where he can never escape, a deformed penguin man, a plant woman who can control man sized carniverous plants an occult preacher or a professor who studies fear and phobias with the power to make a dude hallucinate his worst fears and some Alice and wonderland gimmick characters an immortal arab who's an echo terrorist and runs a weeabo ninja clan with a magical pit that can ressurect the dead
The funny thing not one movie was a realistic take on Batman. The directors only used that word to hide the fact they didn't know ow to make a decent Batman film. Good movies but terrible Batman films.
@@gohanson27 Agreed. The realism response is always coming from people who either don’t understand or refuse to actually think logically how those elements like Robin could fit in a story’s world. If you were truly heavy on the realism, then you probably shouldn’t start with a character that dresses as a mammal and nonlethally beats up criminals.
Honestly I love the killer's idenity and motives more than the one from Long Halloween and I think Robin Year 1 does bring up how fucked up having a child sidekick is.
Wow Salazar, you are on a roll. Keep ‘em coming. The level of work, in depth analysis, creativity, this is top tier content. We really appreciate you. Thank you
Love seeing your perspective. I think comics can and should embrace the fine line that allows characters like Robin to exist. And I hadn’t caught the more shadowy illustrations of Batman to exemplify his more reserved nature, that’s genius stuff from Tim. I think this story’s depiction of Batman and his arc is great.
I was a robin fan first and then got into the batman only stories later. There's so many nuanced and variable takes you can have with robin, and I've always thought there's a huge missed opportunity to explore the dynamics between the robins. Like ok in a super serious batman movie robin can feel campy and dissonant but in a dark comedy? You can address the wild swings between dark and light inherent in robin and exploring how each 4 of the main robins handles that complexity would be wildly interesting imho. Or in a movie focused more on the detective part of batman you could explore how the working relationship between batman and robin contrasts to the familial relationship Bruce and Dick (and Jason and Tim and the demon spawn). You probably would have to do a miniseries because there's SO much stuff to get at Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
This. When salazar said that robin can't work in a more grounded environment. I'm all like, dude, there's been some comics with robin that go dark. Outside of jason and damian, of course. I get that if you put your story in a grounded reality and your robin is a child, it does raise some questions. But it's been done. Unless I'm wrong? I wouldn't mind someone correcting me on this.
Great video man. Yeah I don't think they should use Dark Victory whole cloth if they wanted to introduce Robin into the next Batman movie. I like it for what it is, even though it's not perfect, but I think a better source would be from Robin Annual #4 the Year One Special
9:52 to 11:41 Love your pitch! Considering the rumors that Matt Reeves is planning to introduce a 13 old Dick Grayson in The Batman Part 2, it's possible that the film will take some inspirations from Dark Victory. However, instead of Mr Freeze, I think the new villain should be Mad Hatter. Not only he could work great in Reeves universe (if Reeves made the Riddler into the Zodiac Killer, just imagine if he could make his version of Jarvis into Gotham's Jack the Ripper), helping the Penguin free and control the Arkham Inmates, but he could work as dark mirror reflection of Bruce arc: They are both men who are suffering from loneliness and isolation. The difference is that Bruce deals with this by adopting Dick Grayson and the two slowly bond as duo and develop a father and son relationship. The Hatter, on the other hand, relies on a special drug (which I think should be call "The Rabbit Hole") to force people to be his slaves, creating twist version of a family, all made of abusive control instead of genuine love
I was waiting for my Salazar Knight video for a while. I've never read Dark Victory but it seems pretty interesting to take a look into this more gritty origin of Dick Grayson. As a personal wish, I would love to see the rivarly of Robin vs Two-face adapted since it represents Dick's biggest failure as Batman's sidekick.
I swear I barely see anybody talk about Batman Dark Victory and I love the story personally and I think its a great follow-up story to the Long Halloween. Not only is there a new serial killer mystery but the the introduction of Dick Graysons Robin and introducing a deep and compassionate side of Batman that humanised him so much more from being a vigilante to a superhero and now officially a father and mentor to a surrogate son. Batman: Dark Victory has to be one of the most underrated Batman stories and deserves way more love.
We LOVE you too Salazar Knight !!! Amazing video ! Great points, the joke at the end was Gold and yeah .... While its a good story, Long Halloween is DEFINITELY much better. God bless you man !!!
😊👍… and by Batman helping him get justice early on Dick was able to recover and maintain some of that innocence… or at least some of his heart. I think also if Dick is brought into the movies they need to focus on Batman’s world through Dick’s eyes ( letting the audience see it from that perspective to). For Batman what he does is a mission… it’s all about the mission. For Dick it’s an amazing adventure . Batman see’s a giant underground cavern from whence he works… Dick’s sees a “Batcave” filled with wonderous equipment. Batman sees a high-tech weaponized car.. Dick sees the “Batmobile” As said in the video Dick could cause even Bruce to see his world in a new way. That it is not all about the night and dark vengeance … that there is also light…and justice.
Hey Salazar, I’ve never seen a deep analysis on Gotham City itself. The origin, history, etc. I’ve searched CZcams, and no one has ever done it justice. I hope you can put it on your list of potential future videos. Because your level of analysis is probably what’s necessary for such a huge topic.
Sounds like an interesting and quite ambitious idea! I'll thinkg about it. In the meantime, I did talk a little bit about Gotham's history in my Gotham Nights video from a few years back.
If Dick Graysons Robin represents the hope that Batman can move on past his trauma, then in some way nightwing represents the flip side. Nightwing is what happens to their relationship when dick is able to grow past his trauma and into his own man while Bruce isn’t. Bruce is stuck on his past and dick sees that as the last thing he wants to be as he grows into his own person
Dude, your videos are awesome, I listen to them every time I got to make some dull, boring task at work, but man do they keep me entertained! Cheers and happy holidays!
Wow, what an incredibly well done analysis of Robin that I feel like I understand, without ever having put the words to- "...Bruce Wayne simply replaces-" God damn it
Batman TAS gave the perfect blueprint for how Robin that could be done in live action where he's adopted as a kid but becomes Robin when he's in his late teens. Dick is in college during BTAS and for some reason no one thinks to do what BTAS did in live action
I don’t think it’s impossible to make Dick Grayson happen in the movies. Batman is a little campy even when people take more serious looks at him (like, c’mon, the guy dresses up as a bat) and w cgi and a kid who is prepared you can make that work. In a way I think Damian is way more campy than Dick. The kid was raised in a secret legion of assassins who’s leader has a pit who bring people back to life, that’s as far from realistic as you can get, now Dick Grayson is just a normal child who suffered a tragedy, that’s way easier to make sound believable.
You know, some people might want to end me for saying that but your analysis on Robin as a character, what he represents and the implications of his existence in the world for Batman suddenly made All Stars Batman make a lot of sense. I was fond of the idea that both Dark Knight strikes back on foward and All stars batman were a form of satire, protest and contravention but for me the reason for that was getting back the status quo that after dark knight returns was Batman being gritty and dark. But now i'm picturing exactly why you said robin wouldn't work in the modern films, by applying the same darkness and grittiness Batman receives in to robin and all the circumstances around him it automatically make Batman look like a deranged psycho that's incapable to see things different and straight up evil. And All stars and everything post dark knight returns takes that to extreme AND applies it to all his relationships and character aspects
In a way it makes more sense for Robin to be a teenager or a college student to be a crime fighter. Small children obviously don’t have the physical capabilities to fight criminals.
We can count Titans tv series for that topic as well. There was a Robin in there, too. Actually, there was three Robins😅 And the tone of the series were like they were trying to prove the opposite of "Robin isn't serious character and he is only a comic relief cheerful sidekick" And they were trying that so hard that makes the series a little weird... Like Nightwing was acting like a young version of Batman and says things like "F. batman". Personally I didn't fully like that idea but it was an avarage series I think and it explored an unexplored parts of dc in live action materials... Anyway... I meant I agree with, Batman can be more darker with Robin... After all; Arkham series, a death in the family, return of the dark knight... All had Robins, right?
Sometimes i wish Robin was Batboy First before Robin. It's like a Metaphor to the Sidekick being just another Bat and Trap behind the Shadow of the Cape and Cowl.
We need this Comic to be apart of the Matt Reeves the Batman Movie! I don't care How Dark is it, as long as thet Respect the Character for All his History!
I remember when Dick became Nightwing (yes, I bought it off the stand) and it wasn't such a big deal at the time. It was the movies and internet based fandom that made comics cool and EVERYTHING iconic.
8:11 you should work out some kind of deal with Amazon and DC because the way you are explaining these comic books that I have not been able to read myself are very much making me want to buy those graphic novels which means money being transferred and possibly you getting a cut of it thank you so much
Just the colors and designs of Robin are one of the main things that attracted me to Batman and I don't like when he is so non-present, especially Tim Drake and Dick Grayson God damn it, that joke at the end lol
for me its because after the first robin live action all the movies tried very hard to be realistic so hollywood thinks "robing wouldn't work in a realistic batman universe"
Robin is important for Batman to grow as a character, from the “lost child” to an adult. Unfortunately for Robin, Batman isn’t good at this. Makes for a good story, though. Excellent point at the end that this character growth doesn’t really benefit Robin.
As much as I deeply hate postmodernist X users, they have a point in criticizing the concept of Robin. As you yourself said it, Sal, while Batman has a noble intention to save children from his very own trauma, there is something very questionable about seeing one of those children joining Batman in his crusade, considering he has emotional issues and a very deep lack of self-love, preferring a childish vengeance to moving on. It's good these doubts are reflected in modern comics, especially Robin: Year One and Dark Victory, the latter starting as a recycle to Loeb and Sale's Long Halloween, and then including Dick Grayson in the story in an unorganic way. Despite these serious flaws, at least both men showcase Batman as a man who lacks emotional intelligence to support Grayson when he needs it most, which can be translated to his lack of capacity to get over Dent's fall also.
Great video as always, SK! Tim Sale is a hell of an artist, isn't he? As superheroes become more and more realistic, it introduces more and more problems. Superheros are fantasy - they exist in a world of their own. Superman can punch a bank robber and then literally fly them into a prison, because Superman exists in a world of black and white morality. In contrast Batman is only a few slivers away from real life. I think that's why he plays so well in modern storytelling, and in that way it's the character's greatest asset. But the real world isn't black and white, but morally grey. And in real life vigilantism is quite ugly (people forget that's what lynching is, for instance). That's probably why Batman's "do not kill" rule is so important to people. And like you stated in the video, in a purely fantasy setting dressing up a little kid in a speedo and taking him along to fight crime is a cute idea, but in real life it's bizarre and possibly cruel. Having said that I do like the grim and gritty approach to Batman, so I'm not complaining. It will be interesting to see how realistic Batman can become until he feels more like a psycho than a superhero.
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
I have a idea of The Batman 2: Bruce is tired of the stress of being Batman dealing with all these breakouts and it's then that Alfred offers Bruce tickets to see Haley's Circus and it's there where we see the deaths of the Flying Graysons and the adoption of Dick as the first Boy Wonder
Hope matt revees is watching and taking dark victory into consideration for the batman part 2. This direction of robin is better than what joel schumacker did by far.
I'm actually a huge proponent of Schumacher Robin. I think he managed to thread the needle and find a way to do Robin in the modern age without making it too weird. All the pitfalls people bring up as to why you can't do modern Robin (he's too young, it looks like child grooming, the outfit makes no sense, you can't have a character named "Dick") Schumacher was able to solve: he's a young adult so he doesn't need to be adopted and isn't being groomed, he goes by Richard and only later occasionally as Dick, his outfit is a tactical version of the Flying Graysons performing outfits which is basically the comic accurate Robin costume. Also he manages to do the thing for Batman that Robin has often done when he's introduced in other media: he brings him out of the dark and into a more positive state of mind. And the elegance of how Schumacher fixes the problem of "well, why is he with Batman if he's an adult and can just go get a job?" The answer being: he wants revenge for the murder of his family and so Batman becomes his mentor to help guide him and make sure he doesn't just become another thug. All that and I just have no issue with how Chris O'Donnell plays the character. Sure, some of how he talked and acted is cringe now, but that shit was cool in the mid-90s. I remember girls loved him. I went to see Batman & Robin the theaters and the chicks in the theater cheered when his name came up in the opening credits. I don't like everything about how he acts, his schtick in B&R with Poison Ivy got really old, but he was good in Batman Forever.
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
The reason why Robin is not in live action movies is cause the directors only reads the following books: Long Halloween Year One TDKR Those are the only books the producers and directors reference in interviews. They all read the same books and make the same movie. It is sad and now Gunn is giving us a Batman 10 years in his career or he just don't include Dick Grayson and the other Robins that came before Damian. We will never see a true DCU like the MCU. We live in a world where we are going to get a Young Avengers film before Teen Titans. That' s crazy.
They don’t have long enough in a Batman trilogy of movies to flesh out a good robin with a good coming of age and adapting to where he needs to go after some loss and rebirth imo
Salazar three questions: Is youtube your job or is it just a hobby? Who do you think is better as batman's opposite: owlman or the batman who laughs? Can you make a video about what you thought about watchmen? Happy bat-mas, sal!
CZcams has been my hobby for the last 6 years. However, this year it started growing and hopefully I can turn it into a job soon :) The other two questions are hard because I don't really like the idea of "Batman's opposites" and a Watchmen video is kind of off-topic and it might not perform well. But thanks for writing man and Happy Bat-Mas to you too!!
A lot of people don't know that in his first appearence, 8-year old Robin kills people while laughing cheerfully. The character has been dark from the beginning.
To me the issue isn't about realism. It's about logic and consistency. By that I mean we have to ask ourselves this question: In what reasonable context would MATT REEVES iteration of the Batman be compelled to bring a 9 year old into his life of crime fighting? There's tons of vigilante characters with child partners. But we always have to point the fingers to Bruce. Why? Because on the surface it doesn't seem like something he would actually. His whole reason for fighting crime is to make sure no one ever has to suffer like he did. On the surface level making a kid his partner would make him selfish and contradict his mission. So how do we solve this. I have an idea based on a comment in the video that I couldn't find. In the second movie the villains could be two face and me freeze. Bruce goes to see the flying Graysons. The tragedy occurs and he sees a reflection in dick like when he lost his parents. He understandably takes the boy in as his son. Later it's revealed that the incident was a setup and dick wants justice for against his parents killer. But since Bruce is too consumed with being the Batman, he nearly gets himself killed. We could also reveal that Mr Freeze was a worker who tried send a letter to Wayne because of what they were doing to his wife. These things can show that gotham can't be saved with just batman. It needs Bruce Wayne to be vulnerable as well. It creates a theme of embracing what makes you human to make a world a better place. A theme that dc was always known. Finding purpose in humanity. Had he made time as Bruce, he would have heard Fries cries for justice. He would have been there for a kid when they needed him. He could have saved Harvey. With this revelation, Bruce asks dick if he really wants to catch zuko and fight crime with him. Dick says yes and starts training. To make it realistic, Bruce wont let dick have his desired costume until after he's proven himself and old enough (give 4 years after he's 12) after he catches zuko. During these years, the only time he gets to be robin is when he's works with batman on a crime scene specially when there's a traumatized victim. He can act as the assistant being a medic and giving a cheerful vibe with his costume. Even better, you can make him give to charity like the real life superhero movements. It may seem cheesy but sentimental. It would be beautiful dynamic. Batman puts fear into the guilty and Robin puts hope into the innocent.
I love the Sale/Loeb partnership, but I think the Long Halloween sucked. The reveal twist was just so clunky and awful. I HATE plot twists that add a nonsense surprise reveal at the detriment to the narrative. I never read Dark Victory because I disliked Long Halloween so much.
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
I disagree, we have something called 'anime' that seems to have found this balance without any issue. but from a western stand point this does explain why Damian had to take over. LOL that final joke, omg your the best
Robin is actually dope! people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping him grow and learning through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, and not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
John Blake ain't robin that's a trash character and nolan is a hack for not embracing the supernatural and metahuman aspect of the batman franchise cause they always stick to the adam west cast of villains
🙄🤷🏿♂️🤦🏾♂️ I've done a lot of thinking 🤔 about this and the only logical way that Robin would make since on screwn as an actual child vigilante would be as an act of rebellion from the boy's own initiatives. Natman who's all about preventing crimes would never contradict yhat on hiring a child protege. No it makes since why Bruce would adapt him but he'd never want him as a partner so much as he considers him an adopted son. What can work still is the character of Robin. He can still be seen on screen in the Robin suit only pieced together from a street level of the boys on doing. This way you still get Batman and Robin both onscreen together just not in the context you'd expect. Batman never approves of his adopted son's rebellious actions of acting as a vigilante as nd the only justification of them being seen together are by chance and only by the criminals with whom Robin personally saught out. The character of Robin is much more believable and better justified is an act of rebellion. He only needs to be seen on a few missions not like in the cartoons and comics where he's sworn into the lifestyle. The audiences beed but only to wet their beaks a little with Richard Grayson missions as Robin but when they happen they should be masterfully orchestrated emphasizing the boy's advanced abilities to take on full blown adults whom are twice his size with more experiences to life. This keeps the character interesting and it highlights his best attributes. Richard Grayson's Robin was smarter and better at fighting (with training from Bruce whom unknowingly helped sharpen the boy's motivations).
Happy Holidays, friends! Let me know if you got the Christmas easter egg somewhere in this video ;)
Also, I made a FREE post about Robin's dark world over on Patreon, so be sure to check it out if you want to: www.patreon.com/posts/94626431
Thank you all so much for making 2023 the best year of this channel. You guys are awesome!!
Happy holidays for you too. Man thanks for your hard work and for all the videos. Now, that ending was very developer to me... 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Replacement Theory
you forgot about the robin in cw series ( that series has all 3 versions of Robin )
The only version of Robin i liked was nightwing because it shows us the true potential of Robin, ok he has some weakness but he is the next batman
also i know Red hood would destroy nightwing ( because he doesnt holdback )
@@NektarSSJ i dont think TDK is a generic action film but i do agree that its over rated.
Oh and Nightwing>Red Hood, hes just more skilled overall and has more experience in pretty much all areas.
@@theofficialmb1255 yep all the Robins were dope in their own unique ways. They all have their own backstories, (although at 1st Jason was a carbon copy of Dick but eventially they got his backstory right which involved adding him getting caught stealing the tires off the batmobile), they each have their own fighting style and 3 out of 4(Dick, Jason, Tim, not Damion) were able to bypass Robin and become successful in their own right althought to wildly differing degrees of success.
Ps- i know it probably wont happen but i really wish we could get classic Tim back and have him be with Steph.
Also wish we could get Damion and young Jon back as Super Sons because that book was a ton of fun. Im probably in the minority on this 1 but even though i rlly do like Dick with Babs, Id rather see him with Starfire.
it's a shame that dark victory gets overshadowed by the long Halloween. more people should talk about this story.
Agreed, I like Dark Victory more
Agreed I barley see anybody talk about it despite it being pretty good. Maybe not as a amazing as The Long Halloween story but still is a great follow up sequel that grows Batman to becoming a father and his relationship with Robin is excellent and really heartwarming despite it surrounding a grizzly new serial killer mystery.
Dark Victory has to be one of most underrated Batman stories if you ask me
@@milkiassamuel780 It is as good as TLH, if not better in some aspects
"The day Dick said he didn't want to wear the green shorts anymore, I knew nothing would ever be the same..."
I mean, can you blame him? What boy wants to wear a speedo in public?
@@ehmwhywoah woah woah that was Dick’s decision
@@ehmwhy Dick digs his digs. Wanting to show off his thighs is the canonical reason he chose to keep his circus look for his costume lol until he later he rationalizes that it makes criminals underestimate him, making them drop their guard more often or focus on him while Bats is sneaking around.
Is this like, an actual quote or something?
“Yes you did, stop lying…”
I respect Robin so much. I wouldn’t be a Batman fan without Robin. Sorry, but Robin is the reason I’m Batman fan because I see Batman through his perspective
Robin can be an amazing character and has been many many times; all depends on the writers
Very interesting point of view I’ve never thought of it like that I think to some extent I do too
batman:
dick clearer version of what batman was meant to be
jason is willing to do what batman can't do when the world needs it
tim has strategic sense i envy i have never seen him move too early
I like robin more than Batman, fr
Tim Drake means more to me than Bruce Wayne ever will.
I agree that Robin, specifically Dick Grayson, being as young as he is when Batman takes him in is incredibly essential to the character which is why I always hated when during the New 52 they condensed most of Batman and many DC heroes' histories into about 5 years and somehow saying that Dick was adopted when he was a teenager.
The new 52 us rubbish and pretty much killed dc comics.
New 52 and zack snyder and nolans batman are trash interpretations cause they never want to embrace batmans middle years of taking on side kicks and the greater dc universe such as supernatural and meta humans constantly keeping batman grounded in heavy armors
@@zemox2534new 52 was a huge financial success for DC and it had quite a few good books, i only really loved Batman, Aquaman, & Green Lantern personally though.
DC had Rebirth around 2016 which fixed alot of issues ppl had from New 52 and Rebirth was everything New 52 shouldve been imo, because nearly every book that came out was interesting.
@tyronleung5276 imagine thinking the Nolan Trilogy was not the best version of Batman.
@@CousinBowling It's far from it.
To be honest, I've always read Dark Victory's Robin plot as Dick being just as motivated for revenge as Bruce was. Even after the reveal, Bruce tried to shut Dick out of the life of Batman, but Dick kept forcing his way in, even inventing his own identity and fighting the Joker when he got into the Cave. The ending was Bruce caving and allowing him to become a vigilante as well.
Robin can work if he's a carbon copy of Bruce at that age. Bruce's goal would then become preventing Dick from ending up just like him. Ultimately, that's what Nightwing became: What Batman was supposed to be. So, "It doesn't work" isn't entirely true. It's just that it's a Dark Victory.
While I can understand not using Robin in any live action Batman movie because of how unrealistic it is, but at the same time I don't like my Batman media being realistic it to me just makes it boring comic book adaptations should escapist fun. I think this comic did as good as a job as it can using Robin as both Batman's heart and humanity while also grounding him in a realistic setting.
Batman lives in a world of meta humans gods and monsters most his rogues are monster men giants whos henchmen to a insane asylum psychiatrist who commits crimes while trying to get into the psychology of career criminals, a vampire in his early books not even counting dracula in a non canon comic a zombie who's been active in gotham long before batman was a thing when a nigga in a red and green suit using a magical ring to fight crime who's weakness is wood this zombie nigga is litterally in the long halloween movies adapt into grounded realism harvey dent hangs out with and batman gives him a plate of food, a latino luchadore nigga with a super soilder steroid drug that makes him captian america that's hulk sized temporarily with the intellect to figure who batman really is under the mask by looking at his jaw line and following him home to soften bats up to throw hands, a shape-shifting werebat man, men and women who can change into clay golems, in the possible future of the dc universe has a radioactive skeleton man a guy with a freeze gun who's evolved and adapted to being a cryomancer living in below zero temperature a were crocodile cannibal man who has the abilities of a alligator or crocodile a failed comedian ex gangster or former mantle criminal identity turned into clown with two other people that has the same consciousness who has a family out there he thought died in an accident but were still alive cheated on his wife for a stalker psychiatrist who fell in love with his b.s. sob story and puts up with his abusive relationship and she goes full lesbian at the last minute because he wanted to carve her face off that one time who purchases weapons of mass destruction from a african country and beat the system several times without getting the death penalty or sent to a serious max penitentiary where he can never escape, a deformed penguin man, a plant woman who can control man sized carniverous plants an occult preacher or a professor who studies fear and phobias with the power to make a dude hallucinate his worst fears and some Alice and wonderland gimmick characters an immortal arab who's an echo terrorist and runs a weeabo ninja clan with a magical pit that can ressurect the dead
The funny thing not one movie was a realistic take on Batman. The directors only used that word to hide the fact they didn't know ow to make a decent Batman film. Good movies but terrible Batman films.
@@gohanson27👍
@@gohanson27 Agreed. The realism response is always coming from people who either don’t understand or refuse to actually think logically how those elements like Robin could fit in a story’s world.
If you were truly heavy on the realism, then you probably shouldn’t start with a character that dresses as a mammal and nonlethally beats up criminals.
@@Im.myfuture 100% agree
Honestly I love the killer's idenity and motives more than the one from Long Halloween and I think Robin Year 1 does bring up how fucked up having a child sidekick is.
R.I.P Tim Sale! He was a super talent!
Wow Salazar, you are on a roll. Keep ‘em coming. The level of work, in depth analysis, creativity, this is top tier content. We really appreciate you. Thank you
Thank you and please, call me Sal :)
@@SalazarKnight 😂 oh ok I will do, Thanks Sal 😊
Love seeing your perspective. I think comics can and should embrace the fine line that allows characters like Robin to exist.
And I hadn’t caught the more shadowy illustrations of Batman to exemplify his more reserved nature, that’s genius stuff from Tim. I think this story’s depiction of Batman and his arc is great.
I was a robin fan first and then got into the batman only stories later. There's so many nuanced and variable takes you can have with robin, and I've always thought there's a huge missed opportunity to explore the dynamics between the robins. Like ok in a super serious batman movie robin can feel campy and dissonant but in a dark comedy? You can address the wild swings between dark and light inherent in robin and exploring how each 4 of the main robins handles that complexity would be wildly interesting imho. Or in a movie focused more on the detective part of batman you could explore how the working relationship between batman and robin contrasts to the familial relationship Bruce and Dick (and Jason and Tim and the demon spawn). You probably would have to do a miniseries because there's SO much stuff to get at
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
This. When salazar said that robin can't work in a more grounded environment. I'm all like, dude, there's been some comics with robin that go dark. Outside of jason and damian, of course. I get that if you put your story in a grounded reality and your robin is a child, it does raise some questions. But it's been done. Unless I'm wrong? I wouldn't mind someone correcting me on this.
Wonderful analysis and the fact that you basically built an awesome pitch for The Batman 2 is dope. I would love for them to embrace it
Great video man. Yeah I don't think they should use Dark Victory whole cloth if they wanted to introduce Robin into the next Batman movie. I like it for what it is, even though it's not perfect, but I think a better source would be from Robin Annual #4 the Year One Special
9:52 to 11:41 Love your pitch! Considering the rumors that Matt Reeves is planning to introduce a 13 old Dick Grayson in The Batman Part 2, it's possible that the film will take some inspirations from Dark Victory. However, instead of Mr Freeze, I think the new villain should be Mad Hatter. Not only he could work great in Reeves universe (if Reeves made the Riddler into the Zodiac Killer, just imagine if he could make his version of Jarvis into Gotham's Jack the Ripper), helping the Penguin free and control the Arkham Inmates, but he could work as dark mirror reflection of Bruce arc: They are both men who are suffering from loneliness and isolation. The difference is that Bruce deals with this by adopting Dick Grayson and the two slowly bond as duo and develop a father and son relationship. The Hatter, on the other hand, relies on a special drug (which I think should be call "The Rabbit Hole") to force people to be his slaves, creating twist version of a family, all made of abusive control instead of genuine love
Not even 13 make him an 8 year old
Actually there have been two live action movie adaptions. The 66' movie "Batman The Movie" was a theatrical movie too. It had Burt Ward as Robin
Dark Victory and Old Wounds are Two of the Greatest Batman and Robin Stories!
I was waiting for my Salazar Knight video for a while. I've never read Dark Victory but it seems pretty interesting to take a look into this more gritty origin of Dick Grayson.
As a personal wish, I would love to see the rivarly of Robin vs Two-face adapted since it represents Dick's biggest failure as Batman's sidekick.
You're the best batman youtuber, Salazar. Keep going!
Thank you!
Greetings my friend. I was hoping you'd do Dark Victory. Thank you and please keep up the good work!
I swear I barely see anybody talk about Batman Dark Victory and I love the story personally and I think its a great follow-up story to the Long Halloween. Not only is there a new serial killer mystery but the the introduction of Dick Graysons Robin and introducing a deep and compassionate side of Batman that humanised him so much more from being a vigilante to a superhero and now officially a father and mentor to a surrogate son.
Batman: Dark Victory has to be one of the most underrated Batman stories and deserves way more love.
I love the artwork and a must for my collection!!!
We LOVE you too Salazar Knight !!! Amazing video ! Great points, the joke at the end was Gold and yeah .... While its a good story, Long Halloween is DEFINITELY much better.
God bless you man !!!
Excellent video! But to be honest, I think that Dick Grayson's innocence was already destroyed when he saw his parents killed in front of him.
😊👍… and by Batman helping him get justice early on Dick was able to recover and maintain some of that innocence… or at least
some of his heart.
I think also if Dick is brought into the movies they need to focus on Batman’s world through Dick’s eyes ( letting the audience see it from that perspective to).
For Batman what he does is a mission… it’s all about the mission. For Dick it’s an amazing adventure .
Batman see’s a giant underground cavern from whence he works… Dick’s sees a “Batcave” filled with wonderous equipment.
Batman sees a high-tech weaponized car.. Dick sees the “Batmobile”
As said in the video Dick could cause even Bruce to see his world in a new way.
That it is not all about the night and dark vengeance … that there is also light…and justice.
Absolutely LOVE YOUR VIDEOS BRO
Excellent job. Put off watching this one, relishing getting to it 👍🎞🎬
If i had a nickel for every time Salazar says "Dark", I'd be a very very rich man
Hey Salazar, I’ve never seen a deep analysis on Gotham City itself. The origin, history, etc. I’ve searched CZcams, and no one has ever done it justice. I hope you can put it on your list of potential future videos. Because your level of analysis is probably what’s necessary for such a huge topic.
Sounds like an interesting and quite ambitious idea! I'll thinkg about it. In the meantime, I did talk a little bit about Gotham's history in my Gotham Nights video from a few years back.
@@SalazarKnight that’s great. I will check out the Gotham nights video. Thank you
Yet another amazing video essay. Bravo!
I love this comic and the video 👍🏽
Thank you for crediting Finger before Kane!
If Dick Graysons Robin represents the hope that Batman can move on past his trauma, then in some way nightwing represents the flip side. Nightwing is what happens to their relationship when dick is able to grow past his trauma and into his own man while Bruce isn’t. Bruce is stuck on his past and dick sees that as the last thing he wants to be as he grows into his own person
oh goodness been watching all your vids in a row. good stuff. Love seeing classic bats covered.
Happy to see how your channel is growing!!
And I'm very happy that you're still here :)
God speed Salazar Knight and happy holidays.🙂🎄🦇.✌️ Peace.
24:10 opened me to what makes Robin so cool 😎 thank you
Great analysis of Dark Victory, which is a story that should get more attention from the 🦇 fans. Looking forward to your next video!
Dude, your videos are awesome, I listen to them every time I got to make some dull, boring task at work, but man do they keep me entertained!
Cheers and happy holidays!
Thank you so much! And Happy Holidays for you too!
Wow, what an incredibly well done analysis of Robin that I feel like I understand, without ever having put the words to-
"...Bruce Wayne simply replaces-"
God damn it
i think releasing every villian at once is too much for a yet unexpierenced batman
Batman TAS gave the perfect blueprint for how Robin that could be done in live action where he's adopted as a kid but becomes Robin when he's in his late teens. Dick is in college during BTAS and for some reason no one thinks to do what BTAS did in live action
They stated he became Robin in grade 6 in the DCAU
Love this story. So underrated
I don’t think it’s impossible to make Dick Grayson happen in the movies. Batman is a little campy even when people take more serious looks at him (like, c’mon, the guy dresses up as a bat) and w cgi and a kid who is prepared you can make that work.
In a way I think Damian is way more campy than Dick. The kid was raised in a secret legion of assassins who’s leader has a pit who bring people back to life, that’s as far from realistic as you can get, now Dick Grayson is just a normal child who suffered a tragedy, that’s way easier to make sound believable.
24:30 is the funniest way to end this video
Got me giggling there at the end
You know, some people might want to end me for saying that but your analysis on Robin as a character, what he represents and the implications of his existence in the world for Batman suddenly made All Stars Batman make a lot of sense. I was fond of the idea that both Dark Knight strikes back on foward and All stars batman were a form of satire, protest and contravention but for me the reason for that was getting back the status quo that after dark knight returns was Batman being gritty and dark. But now i'm picturing exactly why you said robin wouldn't work in the modern films, by applying the same darkness and grittiness Batman receives in to robin and all the circumstances around him it automatically make Batman look like a deranged psycho that's incapable to see things different and straight up evil. And All stars and everything post dark knight returns takes that to extreme AND applies it to all his relationships and character aspects
So essentially Batman groomed a child into a soldier. Not really a partner, but.more of a replacement.
If you want to check a GREAT story for Robin and Dick Grayson, Robin Year One (and also Batgirl Year One) is pretty great
In a way it makes more sense for Robin to be a teenager or a college student to be a crime fighter. Small children obviously don’t have the physical capabilities to fight criminals.
We can count Titans tv series for that topic as well. There was a Robin in there, too. Actually, there was three Robins😅 And the tone of the series were like they were trying to prove the opposite of "Robin isn't serious character and he is only a comic relief cheerful sidekick" And they were trying that so hard that makes the series a little weird... Like Nightwing was acting like a young version of Batman and says things like "F. batman". Personally I didn't fully like that idea but it was an avarage series I think and it explored an unexplored parts of dc in live action materials... Anyway... I meant I agree with, Batman can be more darker with Robin... After all; Arkham series, a death in the family, return of the dark knight... All had Robins, right?
The titans series was ass
Sometimes i wish Robin was Batboy First before Robin. It's like a Metaphor to the Sidekick being just another Bat and Trap behind the Shadow of the Cape and Cowl.
We need this Comic to be apart of the Matt Reeves the Batman Movie! I don't care How Dark is it, as long as thet Respect the Character for All his History!
I remember when Dick became Nightwing (yes, I bought it off the stand) and it wasn't such a big deal at the time. It was the movies and internet based fandom that made comics cool and EVERYTHING iconic.
Technically Robin has been in two live-action adaptations. The 2nd being Joseph Gordon-Levitt in The Dark Knight Rises.
24:30 Wait, wasn't this very action the reason why the Comics Code was implemented?
Woah the disrespect to burt ward who was the first live action movie (non serial) robin
I thought about him, but he was originally created for TV. That said, Burt is still the most comic accurate version of Robin in live action so far!
Fantastic video as always bro merry Christmas and happy new year
8:11 you should work out some kind of deal with Amazon and DC because the way you are explaining these comic books that I have not been able to read myself are very much making me want to buy those graphic novels which means money being transferred and possibly you getting a cut of it thank you so much
i'm pretty sure is called Dark Victory because Batman won but they lost Harvey Dent. I mean Gordon even said it....
Just the colors and designs of Robin are one of the main things that attracted me to Batman and I don't like when he is so non-present, especially Tim Drake and Dick Grayson
God damn it, that joke at the end lol
for me its because after the first robin live action all the movies tried very hard to be realistic so hollywood thinks "robing wouldn't work in a realistic batman universe"
Because he wouldn't
Robin is important for Batman to grow as a character, from the “lost child” to an adult. Unfortunately for Robin, Batman isn’t good at this. Makes for a good story, though. Excellent point at the end that this character growth doesn’t really benefit Robin.
As much as I deeply hate postmodernist X users, they have a point in criticizing the concept of Robin. As you yourself said it, Sal, while Batman has a noble intention to save children from his very own trauma, there is something very questionable about seeing one of those children joining Batman in his crusade, considering he has emotional issues and a very deep lack of self-love, preferring a childish vengeance to moving on. It's good these doubts are reflected in modern comics, especially Robin: Year One and Dark Victory, the latter starting as a recycle to Loeb and Sale's Long Halloween, and then including Dick Grayson in the story in an unorganic way. Despite these serious flaws, at least both men showcase Batman as a man who lacks emotional intelligence to support Grayson when he needs it most, which can be translated to his lack of capacity to get over Dent's fall also.
Robin Year One is the sequel to Dark Victory
Merry Christmas!
Simple, the next Reeves Batman is Dark Victory with a good ending. Don't let Zuko die of a heart attack.
Sher Khan voice….
“I am not amused ! “
About the last gag but it works so….. 😂
Great video as always, SK! Tim Sale is a hell of an artist, isn't he?
As superheroes become more and more realistic, it introduces more and more problems. Superheros are fantasy - they exist in a world of their own. Superman can punch a bank robber and then literally fly them into a prison, because Superman exists in a world of black and white morality.
In contrast Batman is only a few slivers away from real life. I think that's why he plays so well in modern storytelling, and in that way it's the character's greatest asset. But the real world isn't black and white, but morally grey. And in real life vigilantism is quite ugly (people forget that's what lynching is, for instance). That's probably why Batman's "do not kill" rule is so important to people. And like you stated in the video, in a purely fantasy setting dressing up a little kid in a speedo and taking him along to fight crime is a cute idea, but in real life it's bizarre and possibly cruel.
Having said that I do like the grim and gritty approach to Batman, so I'm not complaining. It will be interesting to see how realistic Batman can become until he feels more like a psycho than a superhero.
“The more realistic superheroes become, the less believable they are.”
-David Mazzucchelli
@@bibbyboxx2219 Ha! Good quote.
robin is suppose to brighten up batman's life and bring out the hope and prevent him from turning into a darker version of himself
This Plot better be for the Third or Forth Movie.
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
I’ve always loved Robin it annoys me we can’t get a good live action Robin
Okay now I really need Dick Grayson in The Batman 2 lol
I have a idea of The Batman 2: Bruce is tired of the stress of being Batman dealing with all these breakouts and it's then that Alfred offers Bruce tickets to see Haley's Circus and it's there where we see the deaths of the Flying Graysons and the adoption of Dick as the first Boy Wonder
Hope matt revees is watching and taking dark victory into consideration for the batman part 2. This direction of robin is better than what joel schumacker did by far.
Fred Savage would’ve been a PERFECT Robin in ‘89
I'm actually a huge proponent of Schumacher Robin. I think he managed to thread the needle and find a way to do Robin in the modern age without making it too weird. All the pitfalls people bring up as to why you can't do modern Robin (he's too young, it looks like child grooming, the outfit makes no sense, you can't have a character named "Dick") Schumacher was able to solve: he's a young adult so he doesn't need to be adopted and isn't being groomed, he goes by Richard and only later occasionally as Dick, his outfit is a tactical version of the Flying Graysons performing outfits which is basically the comic accurate Robin costume. Also he manages to do the thing for Batman that Robin has often done when he's introduced in other media: he brings him out of the dark and into a more positive state of mind. And the elegance of how Schumacher fixes the problem of "well, why is he with Batman if he's an adult and can just go get a job?" The answer being: he wants revenge for the murder of his family and so Batman becomes his mentor to help guide him and make sure he doesn't just become another thug.
All that and I just have no issue with how Chris O'Donnell plays the character. Sure, some of how he talked and acted is cringe now, but that shit was cool in the mid-90s. I remember girls loved him. I went to see Batman & Robin the theaters and the chicks in the theater cheered when his name came up in the opening credits. I don't like everything about how he acts, his schtick in B&R with Poison Ivy got really old, but he was good in Batman Forever.
My favorite of the Loeb/Sale Trilogy
God they SO need Robin in the next Matt Reeves Batman movie.
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
The reason why Robin is not in live action movies is cause the directors only reads the following books:
Long Halloween
Year One
TDKR
Those are the only books the producers and directors reference in interviews. They all read the same books and make the same movie. It is sad and now Gunn is giving us a Batman 10 years in his career or he just don't include Dick Grayson and the other Robins that came before Damian. We will never see a true DCU like the MCU. We live in a world where we are going to get a Young Avengers film before Teen Titans. That' s crazy.
They don’t have long enough in a Batman trilogy of movies to flesh out a good robin with a good coming of age and adapting to where he needs to go after some loss and rebirth imo
I'm here 🤚
joker: we all know we're both better off without him.
I love your accent. Is it Germanic?
Would you say that both dark victory and robin year one tackle this side of the character.
Salazar three questions:
Is youtube your job or is it just a hobby?
Who do you think is better as batman's opposite: owlman or the batman who laughs?
Can you make a video about what you thought about watchmen?
Happy bat-mas, sal!
CZcams has been my hobby for the last 6 years. However, this year it started growing and hopefully I can turn it into a job soon :)
The other two questions are hard because I don't really like the idea of "Batman's opposites" and a Watchmen video is kind of off-topic and it might not perform well.
But thanks for writing man and Happy Bat-Mas to you too!!
what do you think about the james gunn dcu doing brave and the bold and having damien wayne?
Dark Victory is better than Long Halloween
A lot of people don't know that in his first appearence, 8-year old Robin kills people while laughing cheerfully. The character has been dark from the beginning.
To me the issue isn't about realism. It's about logic and consistency. By that I mean we have to ask ourselves this question: In what reasonable context would MATT REEVES iteration of the Batman be compelled to bring a 9 year old into his life of crime fighting? There's tons of vigilante characters with child partners. But we always have to point the fingers to Bruce. Why? Because on the surface it doesn't seem like something he would actually. His whole reason for fighting crime is to make sure no one ever has to suffer like he did. On the surface level making a kid his partner would make him selfish and contradict his mission. So how do we solve this. I have an idea based on a comment in the video that I couldn't find. In the second movie the villains could be two face and me freeze. Bruce goes to see the flying Graysons. The tragedy occurs and he sees a reflection in dick like when he lost his parents. He understandably takes the boy in as his son. Later it's revealed that the incident was a setup and dick wants justice for against his parents killer. But since Bruce is too consumed with being the Batman, he nearly gets himself killed. We could also reveal that Mr Freeze was a worker who tried send a letter to Wayne because of what they were doing to his wife. These things can show that gotham can't be saved with just batman. It needs Bruce Wayne to be vulnerable as well. It creates a theme of embracing what makes you human to make a world a better place. A theme that dc was always known. Finding purpose in humanity. Had he made time as Bruce, he would have heard Fries cries for justice. He would have been there for a kid when they needed him. He could have saved Harvey. With this revelation, Bruce asks dick if he really wants to catch zuko and fight crime with him. Dick says yes and starts training. To make it realistic, Bruce wont let dick have his desired costume until after he's proven himself and old enough (give 4 years after he's 12) after he catches zuko. During these years, the only time he gets to be robin is when he's works with batman on a crime scene specially when there's a traumatized victim. He can act as the assistant being a medic and giving a cheerful vibe with his costume. Even better, you can make him give to charity like the real life superhero movements. It may seem cheesy but sentimental. It would be beautiful dynamic. Batman puts fear into the guilty and Robin puts hope into the innocent.
I love the Sale/Loeb partnership, but I think the Long Halloween sucked. The reveal twist was just so clunky and awful. I HATE plot twists that add a nonsense surprise reveal at the detriment to the narrative. I never read Dark Victory because I disliked Long Halloween so much.
Hes had mlre than one appearance in movies
Actually 2 live axtion adaptation…. 3 or 4 for those who know
Who would you say is your favorite Batman writer
It's very close between Denny O'Neil and Steve Englehart.
Fuckin love robin man
Robin is actually pope people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping he grow and learn, through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, abd not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
Salazar what are your thoughts about the dc black label 3 issue series the batman first knight by dan jurgens and mike perkins coming in march 2024
I disagree, we have something called 'anime' that seems to have found this balance without any issue.
but from a western stand point this does explain why Damian had to take over.
LOL that final joke, omg your the best
Robin is actually dope! people sleep on him! Acrobatic and can actually fight thanks to Batman helping him grow and learning through time, but i think it's really time for us to see a New live action movie version of him, and not just on a TV show! A young robin fuckin shit up as a kid along side batman Ben Affleck, or somebody, kicking ass jumping around and flipping haha robin is a good fighter
I guess John Blake doesn’t count?
Nope.
John Blake ain't robin that's a trash character and nolan is a hack for not embracing the supernatural and metahuman aspect of the batman franchise cause they always stick to the adam west cast of villains
Dick Grayson is 12 and Bruce was 8
🙄🤷🏿♂️🤦🏾♂️ I've done a lot of thinking 🤔 about this and the only logical way that Robin would make since on screwn as an actual child vigilante would be as an act of rebellion from the boy's own initiatives. Natman who's all about preventing crimes would never contradict yhat on hiring a child protege. No it makes since why Bruce would adapt him but he'd never want him as a partner so much as he considers him an adopted son. What can work still is the character of Robin. He can still be seen on screen in the Robin suit only pieced together from a street level of the boys on doing. This way you still get Batman and Robin both onscreen together just not in the context you'd expect. Batman never approves of his adopted son's rebellious actions of acting as a vigilante as nd the only justification of them being seen together are by chance and only by the criminals with whom Robin personally saught out. The character of Robin is much more believable and better justified is an act of rebellion. He only needs to be seen on a few missions not like in the cartoons and comics where he's sworn into the lifestyle. The audiences beed but only to wet their beaks a little with Richard Grayson missions as Robin but when they happen they should be masterfully orchestrated emphasizing the boy's advanced abilities to take on full blown adults whom are twice his size with more experiences to life. This keeps the character interesting and it highlights his best attributes. Richard Grayson's Robin was smarter and better at fighting (with training from Bruce whom unknowingly helped sharpen the boy's motivations).