Why Cancelling Games Is Good For Square Enix | Backlog Battle
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- Lots of people are saying a bunch of false things about Square Enix's recent earnings calls, so I decided to dive deep into how we got into this point and what it actually means to us gamers.
00:00 - Intro
01:14 - Some very important context
03:23 - Persistance paid off... kinda
04:55 - A MASSIVE change in direction
06:47 - A bright future
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#squareenix #finalfantasy #dragonquest #octopathtraveler #trianglestrategy #bravelydefault #kingdomhearts #jrpg #rpg #actionrpg #turnbased #tacticalrpg #strategyrpg #nonbinary #opinion #facts #gamingnews - Hry
I didn't buy the majority of the games Square Enix released in 2022, just Triangle Strategy, Harvestella and Live a Live, it was too much
Exactly
I bought Tactis Ogre, Harvestella, DioField, Triangle Strategy, Live a Live, The Divine Force, Bravely Default 2, FFXVI and probably a dozen more. I finished Diofield, FFXVI and started The Divine Force, and all of them needed a bigger budget.
A ton of Square Enix games in such a short span of time!
@@BacklogBattle I had money and almost everyone if them was on sale, except for FFXVI and The Divine Force which I bought at release.
I feel like they could have just stopped pushing out games they knew were going to be trash, like Various Daylife, a million Final Fantasy mobile games, and maybe focused on things fans actually wanted, like a Chrono Trigger HD-2D remaster, or localizing Dragon Quest X. Things that fans would have bought and most likely loved.
That's one of the reasons why they took the $140 million hit - too many games that probably wouldn't make money!
I just want SE to go back to the Snes-PS2 era, where every game had the effort and budget to compete. Nowadays, it seems if your name is not Final Fantasy, your team get whatever you have in your pockets and these two random people we found just outside the office to help. Good luck and make sure to get over 5 million sales.
Seriously, games like Musashi, Xenogears and Bahamut Lagoon would be akin to cashgrab gachas if they were made today, instead of niche classics and different takes on the various rpgs we got.
Those type of games in this day an age has a very small audience. To them it's not worth it. I would love to go back to that era, however the mainstream gamers aren't millennials anymore...
It can't unfortunately, it's a product of late-stage Capitalism, no large company will want to risk (or even be allowed to risk) not making a profit on a product, not making a profit is a death-kneel to the Corporate Big Wigs running and funding everything.
Unfortunately, Triple A games are just waaaay too expensive to make compared to what they were during the PS2 era and prior (especially since the price of games have largely stayed the same in spite of general inflation and the drastic increase in development times and costs) for this industry to exist in the way it did back then.
Thankfully, though there are “Double A” studios and Indie developers/publishers out there (such as Supergiant Games and New Blood Interactive), hopefully in the future this section of the industry can continue to grow and reach the heights of the golden age of pre-online dominated gaming (snes era - ps2 era)
I'm surprised I didn't see anyone bringing this up, but for me the biggest problem with those 2022 games, aside from the lack of marketing, was the price. A bunch of portable energy, lower budget games, being sold for AAA price tag. I don't know if it's my third world country mentality but I didn't think any of those new games were worth the price at the time.
Eventually I bought a physical PS4 copy of Diofield for like $20 (converted to USD) a few months after release, but Harvestella, Valkyrie Elysium, and probably the others too, are still selling for full price outside of sales. Kinda crazy to me.
I didn't think that needed to be said. Part of the onslaught of games *is* rationalizing whether or not a game is worth the price. And with so many games from the same publisher coming out all at once, this kind of conversation is naturally what comes up. I mean for crying out loud, we had TWO Square Enix titles come out for at least two months in 2022! That's nuts!
That square will not change Square will charge full price or close to it in evert game they made.
Content fatigue is a real thing.
I cannot watch every movie and show I'm interested in.
I cannot play every game I'm wanting to experience.
There just isn't enough time.
Make games shorter and more focused.
Quality not quantity and I am glad that they are making this move so the fan can actually get excited when we hear a new se game !!!
Visions of Mana is next!
Speaking of what viewers on your channel like to watch - I would love to see more commentaries like this one or essays / game analysis. Reviews are nice, because they keep me up to date with JRPGs that come out, but I’d love to see your opinion on older games, series you love with some interesting insights
I know a lot of people jumped straight to doom and gloom with this one, but, as much as I liked most of the games from 2022, they were so choked that most got lost in the deluge. Giving games more opportunities to breathe, get proper marketing and budgets to bring their ideas to fruition is nothing but a good thing
Question: did people SERIOUSLY think they were going to cancel Dragon Quest XII? Who in their right mind would think that? It’s arguably a bigger franchise than Final Fantasy, especially in Japan. This coming from someone who prefers FF over DQ.
Genuinely I am baffled that people would actually think this.
They really did! It's baffling, I tell you!
I'm worried about HD2D DQ3
Very excited to see how this helps Square Enix become even more of a powerhouse in the future.
My concern is the more niche remasters/remakes
The SaGa Frontier 2 remaster is still in the cards, according to its producer! I think that's an integral part of their business. I think a lot of this has more to do with some of the games of 2022 not hitting as hard in terms of sales. Or better yet, just flooding the market with B or C tier titles that don't represent the kind of quality that they expect from their games.
@BacklogBattle ya remasters like that of current ip is what I'm not too concerned about, thankfully. But something like, say other games like live a live stuff like that. Unless asano keeps pushing, but that'd be pretty slow roll out
Ironic... Because i fall in love of Rebirth and my most anticipated game this year is Visions of Mana.
2022 was also Romancing Saga Minstrel Song Remastered. Bandai-Namco also said they're going to focus more on quality, I hope it's really the case with both companies.
I didn't know that about Bandai Namco! Thank you for sharing!
Sounds a bit like shareholders are kickin' in.
From what I can tell, this was actually an internal decision made by both the President (Kiryu) and the Board of Directors to enhance the quality of their games. Sure, the losses of revenue is part of it. But they also over-invested in too many titles that didn't sell. That's like if you spend $500+ on streaming equipment but you've even yet to make a single $ out of your stream if you're looking to get paid!
Just don't cut back on Remake part 3. I'm in my mid-40's and it's perhaps the last game I truly care about.
I actually don't think Remake Part 3 will be affected. As I've said in other comments, this will most likely affect weird games like "Dungeon Encounters" (Google that!) and smaller titles like Voice of Cards. Otherwise, I can only see this as a huge positive.
It's important to keep in mind that square has produced arguably some major flops and infamous games pretty consistently every year for, idk, half a decade?
Quiet man, balan wonder world, avengers, for spoken, adventure of dai, chocobo gp, SYMBIOGENESIS (YES IT EXISTS)
And like half their mobile games have been dead on arrival or withered out recently.
That's definitely why they want to be more selective with games they want to green light.
There's probably going to be something SaGa Frontier 2 in the cards too, I forgot where, but apparently series creator teased about it in a recent interview.
With that say I welcome a rollout slowdown because I sure can't keep up with all those releases 😅
Yep! They'll just be selective with what they approve! After posting this video, I'm immediately reminded that Dungeon Encounters is a Square Enix title. And you look at it and you won't even be able to tell that it is! How did THAT get greenlit?!
Even as someone who knew that titles like DQ12 and FF7 Part 3 would be safe, I found this video an interesting deep dive into Square Enix a lot of people don't know about. Hopefully SE's new approach will mean potential Harvestella and Diofield sequels get the resources and marketing they deserve.
Thank you very much! Not a lot of people know about this stuff, so I'm grateful for anyone who took notice and takes all of this info in!
I think the games that were made by Square enix will continue. Now things like NEO TWEWY that is made by studios outside of the company im not sure.
Most of the outsourcing is so that SE wouldn’t need to hire more people internally which, in theory, isn’t a bad idea. The quality control on SE’s end, however, leaves something to be desired.
I agree with you: I think this will overall be good. I think my only worry is this would make them more cautious to experiment with something new - I'm generally all for new, cheaper experiments in gaming. I know SE hasn't done quite as much of that, though, so I guess I'll just keep my eyes on the indie developers for the really radical new ideas.
Yosuke Matsuda looks like he might have been the Devil We Knew. Kyriu seems to be a devil we don't. Matsuda said dumb stuff, all the god damn time. But he's also the person who gave the to greenlight: Neo The World Ends With You, Nier and Nier Automata, Dragon Quest XI, 7 Remake series, and Vision of Mana, obviously tons of others as well. He was great, and I wish we didn't hate him because he chased nfts.
Also, Octopath Traveler.
If one of the games cancelled was Octopath Traveler 3, they are dead to me!
I really doubt it given that it probably isn’t in preproduction yet lol
@@BacklogBattle That in itself is a crime! Dead to me again 😅
@@corey2232 they JUST released 2! I’d give them a break and work on something else!
@BacklogBattle It came out in Feb 2022... So going on nearly 2.5 years ago.
It took 3.5 years between the 1st & 2nd game, but you're saying they haven't even started on Game 3. I don't expect it released now, but I did expect them to be working on it.
Unfortunately I believe it's one of the games that was canceled.
@@corey2232 we’re talking about Octopath Traveler 2 right? That was our Game of the Year of 2023. I’m a 110% it came out February 2023 LOL
One thing I hope doesn't happen is that the Mana title doesn't have 7 figure sales expectations. No franchise deserves to be sent out to die because corporate overprrdicted its success.
I can relate to that from a CZcamsr perspective too. When Elden Ring came out, I spent a lot of time and effort to make an epic 29 minute review of the game. I was expecting that by putting a lot of effort, research, and time in it that it'd get shared and a lot of people will see it. In the end, barely over 1.8k people watched it - one of my lowest watched videos at the time.
This is all to say that regardless of what's being created, we're not soothsayers and know how much might sell. We can't ever know how our creations will perform in the wild because randomness is a very real thing.
With regards to SE, I think much of how we all perceive their sales targets is still colored by their expectations of Tomb Raider way back in 2013 when it didn't hit 7 million units. Granted, part of the company is slow to recognize changes in the market, but I'd like to believe that a part of the company is becoming more reasonable in terms of sales expectations.
Crazy counter argument but bear with me. Imagine a family with 12 kids compared to a family of 2 to 3 kids. The 2 to 3 kids will get more guidance and direction from their parents while the family of 12 kids will have a lot more of growing on their own or with the other siblings. You might say 2 to 3 kids is more normal and ideal but what if you grow up with these families and marry someone from a family of 12 kids. You love that person and you couldn’t imagine life without them, sure not all of their brothers and sisters came out perfect but your grateful their parents didn’t stop at just 2 or 3.
Basically Square Enix is saying we’re going from a family of 12 kids to just 2 or 3. Yes this will weed out several bad games and allow the good ones to grow and have their space but a game we might love might have just gotten axed.
Normally I wouldn’t care which business model they choose because theirs good pros and cons to both. However, one of my favorite things about square recently is all these AA games fit a gap basically no one is filling. Currently gaming is the AAA blockbusters or the indie heartfelt game without much inbetween and your right all the games and franchises people actually care about will continue to come out. I just really enjoyed the variety of the previous strategy, the gap it filled, and their was some games I truly loved in there. I will continue to always look forward to their next release though.
LOL that's a great counter argument, and thank you for posting all of that! But to use your example, I think this is more along the lines of a family planning to have 4 kids but only realistically having the capacity to have 2 instead, choosing to spend the time to work towards that family of 4 eventually rather than plunging themselves into economic collapse.
Economically speaking, Square Enix needs to get to a point where a majority of their games make a lot of money first, and they know that only aiming for AAA isn't going to work - which is why those four people in the photo (Okabe, Yoshi-P, Asano, Nozue) is so noteworthy because most of them deal with games that *aren't* AAA. And the fact that they're installed in high ranking executive positions gives them a bit more power to ensure that the company releases games that not only fulfill their AAA requirements, but also learn how to create games with lower budgets that have good earning potential as well. The latter part is a skillset that Asano, Yoshi-P, and Okabe are typically known for! This is precisely why the FUD surrounding Square Enix making only AAA games didn't make sense to me.
"You might say 2 to 3 kids is more normal and ideal but what if you grow up with these families and marry someone from a family of 12 kids. You love that person and you couldn’t imagine life without them, sure not all of their brothers and sisters came out perfect but your grateful their parents didn’t stop at just 2 or 3."
Unless those siblings are a$$holes. ;p
Let's face it, Square-Enix had a bunch of a$$hole children who couldn't get the respect or love they deserved because they were niche, and even though the red-headed stepchildren games got a cult following, two or three big brothers and sister games got enough fans to get the recommendation from the company, aka Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, and the Mana series. There were not enough time to discipline the a$$hole kids. I apologize for the profanity, but after reading my current mystery novel about a toxic snake family in the mountains of Montana, I realize that sometimes you just have to cut off a series that isn't benefiting anyone but a few perverted fans. :(
Square-Enix is just disowning the toxic children games that are not making the money. Deny and whine all you want, but the writing is on the wall: This is a big business, they need profit, and some of these franchises are too neglected and decayed to make any money. This means we will stop getting delays on big games like Kingdom Hearts IV and FFXIV can get super armor against DDOS attackers. X(
@@BacklogBattle Agreed. I always want to ignore the economics for the principle too often. Square has historically backed themselves into a big title like FF7 and once they have the profit from that big title they Greenlight all their other ideas, Tobal, Tactics, Xenosaga. This is almost like them returning to form in a way.
Personally I just took this news as square enix is no longer interested in making smaller or mid budget games. Just going to make big budget ones.
That's what everyone thought and, by proxy, what journalists wanted everyone to think! But when you take a look at the games I mentioned - not to mention "Dungeon Encounters," which is that silly dungeon crawler that they released in 2021 - some of those needed a lot more thought as opposed to just being pushed out to the market.
Which is weird, since their AAA releases have been struggling.
Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Crono Trigger, and the Mana series are the only IPs Square-Enix makes that I care about. I wanted to like Octopath but I hated the battle system and that the characters didn't really interact. FF7 remake/rebirth is amazing and I can't wait for the finale. I'll try Triangle Strategy after Unicorn Overlord.
Octopath 1 felt like a beta. Octopath 2 delivered on many levels.
Another thing Square Enix needs to stop doing is throwing their lot in exclusively with Sony for new Final Fantasy.
Nintendo has long since taken over Playstation in Japan, and Final Fantasy's sales in the west are dwindling with each new release (despite larger budgets). If anything, go the Capcom route like they did with Monster Hunter, and develop a serious new FF entry for Nintendo/PC and whatever number entry for PS5.
And I'm not talking silly spin-offs like Crystal Chronicles or a heavily downgraded port, but rather a completely new game built from the ground up with Switch 2 hardware in mind.
I'm in my 40s, and Remake is the best video game I have ever played.
EVER. PLAYED.
And what it comes down to is that the game is essentially a love letter to FF7 - every stitch of it just feels so lovingly worked together. It's damned near close to perfect - great voice acting, great music, great set design, great pacing, and if you want challenging mechanics, those are there, too. Sadly, Rebirth was a bit of a step backwards, but Remake goes to show that SE can still make a blockbuster of a game in this era.
Honestly, I want to see them carefully craft more games in the future - and that means that I want fewer, more meticulously-designed products (and hopefully the third FF7 game will be more in that mold, and less side-objective heavy). So, yeah, as long as the company doesn't go out of business, this is good news.
I think what we're seeing is just the fall-out from the pandemic boosts. A lot of people had more free time and money so it artificially inflated demand for content. Most (if not all) of those games began development during that time period.
However, that obviously ended. Not only did the free time and extra money go away, but now inflation is hitting everyone. What Square-Enix did was smart, even if it was painful. It would have cost them much more money to complete projects that, likely, would have had middling sales.
I just want Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy Tactics on Switch/Switch 2.
Pixel/HD Remasters even better.
No need to remake them.
The world isn't square anymore. It's bigger.
Examples of games I bought on PS1 just because they were from Squaresoft and for no other reason: Parasite Eve, Brave Fencer Musashi, Einhander.
Fast forward to today and I still haven't bought Harvestella, Voice of Cards, Valkyrie Elysium, I Am Setsuna or Lost Sphear. Young me would be disappointed, but the world has changed.
War. War never changes. (Start Fallout TV series)
As someone who doesn't care for Team Asano games or the Final Fantasy brand, but did care for a lot of other smaller titles like Harvestella, I can't see this as something to be happy about. There were probably a lot of great games in that 141 million dollars.
I never said that it would only be Team Asano games or AAA. For every good Harvestella, there’s an overpriced Dungeon Encounters at $29. Refining the library to a few games that allow them to market titles LIKE Harvestella is a good thing. This doesn’t mean no variety.
@@BacklogBattle You didn't but after axing 140 million worth of games, I don't expect much that isn't already well established or has proofen itself for the foreseeable future. I doubt they've only sorted out the crappy games, but also new and lesser known IPs because they're an uncertainty as to how well they'll sell.
U made a few valid points. As someone who has bought almost all their games since ps1 there is a big downturn in their games qualities. Ff16 was meh, ff7 part 2 was SUPER repetitive and the combat in part 1 was better. I am the biggest ff fanboy and i am not sure ill finish part 2….. chadly is the worst. I want turn based rpgs. Look at HOW well the trails series is doing. falcom gets they are niche and give the people want they want! Great turn based gameplay and an even more amazing story. Its sad when another game series feels more final fantasy than final fantasy just my opinion:)
Every time someone calls out FF I get frustrated because it’s purposely ignoring the other awesome turn based games the company makes. Sorry that the series has left you behind. But if you acknowledge Trails as the new FF, then you have to acknowledge the other turn based games SE makes as well.
@@BacklogBattle oh i do like i said i still buy all their games. Im just not as satisfied with them as i was on ps1/ps2. A game like sandland should have been a square release. I was talking with my pal recently i would honestly be 100% ok if they made ps1/snes graphic games with killer stories that were turn based. Ive been with square SINCE ff1 on nes and have played and still own almost all their releases. My whole issue is square games dont feel like square games of the past. Minus a select few. Octopath was amazing!
@@joshuasmith3114 ok! Thanks for clarifying! Also: can’t wait for Daybreak!
@@BacklogBattle i am beyond excited for that! Will most like be my game of the year! Into reverie put almost 200hrs into hahah! Keep up the good work!
Well Bandai Namco could release games every month, no problem
They’re not doing well financially either. Missed their forecast by 128 billion yen. www.smartkarma.com/home/newswire/earnings-alerts/bandai-namco-holdings-7832-earnings-fall-short-cuts-fy-operating-income-forecast/
will just say that likely we won,t get more voice of cards, smaller titles like harvestella and valyrie elyseum having underperformed valkyrie games
I wouldn’t say that. They’ll just be smarter with what games they produce.
Just remake Xenogears only and don't add too much like how they did with Remake/Rebirth. The game was a mess and just needs the polish it deserved.
I liked what they did with SaGa Frontier where they added the cut content back in the game!
Square-Enix might die soon, but the people working there won't. From its ashes shall arise the best indie JRPG dev teams you've ever seen.
I like how Square Enix and Marvel are now taking similar approaches in prioritizing Quality over Quantity.
Bob Iger, who's Disney's former and current CEO (funny how that works) has always valued quality over quantity. I've read his book countless times to know that it's just part of his character. So when I noticed Marvel doing volume than quality, I felt as though he was going to step in and put a kibosh on that. I'm actually glad to hear this.
Ya with the rise of F2P, accessibility, and hyperinflating the industry... Things are looking bad.
Blockchain is literally the ultimate weapon for the Video Games, but that's for the Next Gen Gods to figure out how to utilise them.
The only hint I can give out is, if they can unite the emulator and traditional markets... They'll take over the world.
I can't say much more since it's not my place to step into their field of work. They need to figure it out on their own and create a new Business Standard.
They may have been coming out with a lot of games, but none of them appealed to me.
And there lies the rub
I’m somewhat sadden by the fact that FF7 rebirth didn’t seem to do well, the game is clearly made with a lot of love and effort. The team deserves a raise, which would be tough without the revenue
We have zero official confirmation by the company and only guessers have guessed that this is why. Don’t believe in the guessers.
Square Enix has been a mess for a long time now (maybe even from its inception). Some of their teams (for example Asano) are fine but they are the minority. Now in my opinion their main problem is their philosophy of “we need to conquer the world market”. A lot of japanese publishers tried to do so during the ps3/360 era and they crashed and burned whilst getting involved in game genres that they didn’t understand and probably didn’t even want to make. Whilst most Japanese developers have refocused into doing what they do best SE hasn’t yet come to this realisation. Making a guess, this is purely a management problem. In my opinion they need to stick to jrps, move away from shiny graphics (you can make a beautiful game with ps4 tech) and manage their budgets carefully so games don’t need to sell 10million copies to break even. The majority of japanese developers are currently thriving, SE can do so as well.
I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to think of a larger market to cater towards, especially given how much of the Japanese gaming population plays gacha. They’ve at least got that covered. Companies like Capcom do quite well by creating games with the West in mind, for example, and thrive.
I do see your point about Japanese devs catering to the West during the PS3/360 era, but this isn’t what’s happening with Square Enix. For a long time, Nomura led the company because there weren’t any other directorial/production talent that showed promise. Part of the BD split was to be able to find new leadership, but only a few came up. Asano being one of them.
And again, I bring up a game like Dungeon Encounters, which was $30, and how that got greenlit. That single game represents what I’ve pointed out in the video, that just because you can make a lot of games, doesn’t mean you should. Someone in the comments tried to argue that “more games are good,” but I doubt they bought all of the games SE made during this time period.
Basically, they went for Quantity over Quality, then they realize that was shit move. Now they want to focus on Quality over Quantity games.
Bingo! Like when you see a game like "Dungeon Encounters" get released and it feels very, very different than anything Square Enix is known for, that's when you know that this approach was very, very wrong LOL
Hopefully the rumored FF 9 remake isn’t affected.
Fingers crossed it's not!
@@BacklogBattle I don't want a remake of FF9. It doesn't need it.
I loved FF7 on Ps1 but it's time to let it go. Square is milking nostalgia dry.
They have to at least finish the remake trilogy.
Honestly they need to stop making console exclusives, I'm pretty much done buying games for systems with an expiration date. I haven't played FFXVI or Rebirth, waiting for the PC release.
Frankly, this console generation with Sony has been a wash for me. I like the PS5, but I play more crossgen games on it than exclusives.
That would go counter to their new approach. Developing for a single platform allows them to focus on quality.
you can't compare square enix to a youtube content creator more games is always better then less games
Content is content. It’s subject to the same things.
I would agree that more GOOD games is better than less GOOD games.
But do you think the Switch eShop is best with 20,000 games for sale (which is a figure it's about to pass), even though only 20% of its games are worth playing? Or would it be better with only 5,000 games, with 80% of its games worth playing, and the devs who made the other 15,000 shovelware games spread to other dev-teams or other jobs making useful things for the human race?
I personally enjoyed most of Square Enix's games in 2022, but the average quality was objectively lower with dozens of games released in one year. I enjoy 6/10 and 7/10 games, but many people don't (or get overwhelmed when there are "too many games" to buy).