510-Pyro Film Developer. How to make your own!
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- Making 510-Pyro black and white film developer is pretty straight forward. You just need some basic chemicals and accurate scales.
Be safe! Do this outside on a still day. Keep all chemicals off your skin and do not breath in the dust.
You make it look so easy. I love this developer. Thanks to Jay DeFehr!
Keep up the good work. Excellent videos! Thank you.
These are the comments that make my day! Thank you so much!
Super video! I will try to make some! Thank you, and I subscribed! )))
Thanks Gary!
Greetings from Sydney, just discover this channel, after the pandemic, love it and immediately got the book.. looking forward to get it send out here. Now..inspired to do Pyro dev. I looked the 510’up in the darkroom cookbook formula 53 gives the 510. It uses 0,25 gr of Phenidone, I guess it’s not that big of a deal, but what’s the reason..? Anyway thanks for the channel!!
Hello to the great city of Sidney! The Darkroom Cookbook has an outdated version of the formula. It was revised by DeFehr to better balance the developing agents. You'll see the new formula in my book. Thank you for buying it!
WoW !! What a HUGE container of TEA -- from where do you source it and your Pyrogallol and other chemicals please as I am 'Running Out ' of a Huge stash given to me by a Camera Club member YEARS ago -- I hate to know what they COST nowadays !! When I was in the British Army (RAMC ) doing Pathology I could order chemicals and the British Government paid ! I made up my own Developers in BMH Iserlohn Germany just as the famous ADOX Films were coming out and the AGFA ones of course.
I have a list of suppliers on my website that might be of help Peter: www.pictorialplanet.com/page-5/suppliers.html
Isn't 80 C you mentioned a bit too high.? I double your recipe and still run out as it's the best developer I have ever used.
Hi John, I have your book and discovered your YT channel (somehow) right at the start = thanks for your work and sharing with the analog community! One question: there numerous pyro developers available, Ichor being the last contribution by Jay de Fehr (though the recipe for this one is not disclosed as far as I know). Do you have your own experience with Obsidian Aqua and Ichor and could compare these to 510-pyro? I was among the first to order Ichor from Jay but the orders for non-US residents were cancelled due to the logitistic issues related to shipping chemicals. Still I have the option to use 510-pyro (I have bought it from Rudiger) and OA.
First, thank you for buying my book and your kind words, Daniel. I’m glad we have connected here. I have not tried Obsidian or Ichor. When I started using 510, and tested it for my book, I thanked Jay for one of the best developers I’d ever used. It suits me perfectly as a very fine grained pyro developer that keeps for donkey’s years. It’s not the only developer I use - horses for courses and all that - and I’ll probably cover others in future videos I’m sure. Thanks for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it.
Hi John! Nice video as always. While I appreciated your warnings about the toxicity of Pyrogallol, the doctor in me really cringed watching you mix this up without wearing gloves! I always wear gloves and a mask when mix this type of chemical, even out in the garden. Perhaps over cautious, but your liver will thank you! Cheers! Steve Rosenblum
You're a good doctor and I take your advise well. Thank you, Steve! Are you making your own 510?
@@PictorialPlanet I'm still working on the bottle that Jay was kind enough to send to me awhile ago. When it's done I plan to mix some up. I even have a magnetic stirrer/heater plate that I bought for next to nothing from the warehouse where our university gets rid of old lab stuff. So I'm ready to rock! The thing is I only shoot a few rolls of film per month these days (though I'm planning on cranking that up on a trip we will be taking next week), and I'm fascinated by the chemistry/alchemy aspects of film, so it's easy for me to make the mistake of continually trying out new things instead of picking one or two and really nailing the process down. I'll watch one of your videos and think "FX55! That looks cool, I'll mix some up and try that", or I'll read an old article on Thornton 2 bath and want to try that. Too much of a kid in a candy store, I guess!
Hi John, thanks for this, I purchased the book a month or two back, excellent, thank you. I was thinking of 510 for my 8x10 sheets tray developed. It was either that or PyroCat in my rotary processor. I'm still undecided, would 510 work in my Jobo ? Thanks again for the excellent work, it's really been helpful as I set up for my retirement ; )
Hi John and thanks for your comment. More thanks for purchasing my book, glad you like it! 510 is a very good developer and, according to its formulator Jay Defehr, will work well in a Jobo. I don't use rotary processing so can't help with times.
@@PictorialPlanet Thanks John, Yes, your book is literally a mine of information, all relevant ! Fantastic resource. I found a "technical data sheet' on 510 listing development times with rotary processing for most films, 6 mins for Foma 200 and 8.30 minutes for FP4, I'll start there and see how I get on. Thanks again.
@@johnhigginson5079 That would be my company's 😊
It is possible to use phenidone 1% or 2% solution in propylene Glycol, as you suggested in your FX-55 video, in this (or, any other like PC-TEA)TEA based developer?
Yes, you could but beware. Bear in mind that 510 gets (and needs) its alkalinity from the TEA so to dilute it too much with glycol will affect the developer negatively. Use a 5% phenidone solution in glycol. With a 5% phenidone solution you'd need 5ml, not enough to make a real difference. I'm using the original formula for that calculation. You can use your 5% in all other developers too.
Thanks for this video John. One question. Can I reuse the alkaline fixer again? After how many use it will lose its effectiveness. Thanks again John!
All explained in my book 📕 www.pictorialplanet.com/Book/book.html
It is really hard to buy chemicals in small amount in Canada. I asked around in Toronto, no place that I can find all ingredients
Can you buy from the photographer's formulary in Montana?
@@PictorialPlanet I’ll check it out! Thank you! Never tried to buy anything from them
I buy at B&H as the ship to Canada cheaply.
Very, very interesting. Is it necessary to use an alkaline fixer to keep the stain? I find more difficult to buy an alkaline fixer than pyro.
Hello Paolo! It's preferred to use an alkaline fix but not essential. It's worth trying the developer anyway because it's very good. I have videos on making different fixers that are matched to pyro developers too if you can buy the chemistry.
@@PictorialPlanet Thank you John! I'll give it a try soon, because I think it provides the advantages I'm looking for. I found a neutral fixer by Rollei (RXN), it should do the job. I want to thank you for your videos: they're very well done and with passion. Greetings from Italy!
Thanks Paolo, your fix will work perfect.
Hi John, I'm making a batch of 510, only I've just retrieved my triethanolamine from the garage and half of it has crystalized. Is it still usable? I've noticed ACP pure sell it, but it's a clear liquid?
Kind regards, Kit
It freezes at around 15c or so. Warm it up, it'll become liquid again. It's normal :)
@@PictorialPlanet Excellent. Thank you very much, John.
Kind regards, Kit
You're very welcome, Kit! Good luck!!
Wow, this looks so easy! I think I *must* make it
Is it really the same thing they sell for 25GBP?
There’s only one 510-Pyro. This is the updated formula. Zone Imaging does make a convenient and high quality product.
Hello John, I have two questions:
1 - I have your book in an older version, does the new one have more recepies and techniques? 2 - Why do we use TEA with 510-Pyro (Pyrogallol) and Propylene Glycol with Pyro HD (Catechol)? Thank you for sharing your knowlodge.
The new addition does add some new and very good formulas. I've rewritten a lot too adding more personal experiences. If I had an older version I'd definitely want the new one. Now, to question 2. TEA is alkaline and at a nice alkalinity for pyro and phenidone. That's why 510 has no second accelerator like pyrocat has. With glycol it's more or less neutral so won't develop silver halides without that accelerator, in pyrocat's instance, potassium carbonate. Metal salts such as potassium carbonate won't dissolve in glycol (or TEA for that matter) so we can't make a single liquid developer like 510. It was very smart of Defeur to create 510. He had listened to Patrick Gainer talking about using TEA as a alkaline preservative (PC-TEA for instance) and realised that the TEA was the trick to making a very good pyro developer.
@@PictorialPlanet thank you very much. Now I understand why. 😀❤
Great video. I read somewhere that Phenidone 0.25 g, but you use 0,375 for that part. Using more Phenidone has some advantage?
How this developer compares to others, like Pyrocat?
thanks
The formula was updated by the inventor a few years ago. I'm using the new formula. For comparisons see my Battle of the Giants videos.
John - Has bromide drag ever been an issue for you with full stand development in 510-Pyro?
Hi Frank! No, it hasn't. 510, similar to Rodinal in this way, is quite resistant to bromide drag and I've never seen it.
Hi John,
Does it matter if the TEA is 98%, 99% vs. lab grade? What about its color? It seems the purer it is, the clearer it is. Thanks!
I don't think it matters
I guess I can't use Fenidon in MPG in this developer. Or yes?
The TEA in 510 provides the alkalinity when mixed with water. MPG is pretty much neutral. If your phenidone solution (in MPG) is 5% I think you'd be ok because it's such a small amount you'd add.
Hi John, can I ask where you got your metal stirrer / crushing rod? Thanks
I bought it on eBay some years ago. It's plastic and came as part of a stirrer set by either Paterson or Jessops?
Any recommended times and dilutions for Tri x shot at 200 iso? I can only find 400 times or pushing.
Any thoughts?
No, sorry
John have you ever experimented with developers like caffinol or clovinol ?
No
Jay, which fixer are you using in stand development, which is done in 1 minute?
Regards, Otto Muskee
It's John, Otto. I used fresh TF-4 in that video.
You can but you are better using an alkaline fix to preserve maximum stain.
I really keen to try this out, but where do you get your Triethylamine from in the UK?
Try Kevin at Wet Plate Supplies. I bought mine donkey's years ago and can't remember where from but if you message Kevin from his website he might have some.
@@PictorialPlanet Thanks, John - keep up the good work. I've discovered my inner chemist since the pandemic started. Cheers.
Ha! That's great!!
Rob, did you ever find where to buy TEA to make 510-Pyro?
@@PictorialPlanet Yes, John - my first batch I bought from Germany, but after consulting with Jay, I looked for 99% TEA on eBay & found a few suppliers. But, be careful, some are selling it per kilo, rather than per litre. I bought: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triethanolamine-99-9-1L/393028534317?hash=item5b8253802d:i:393028534317
Hello John, I found TEA 85% here in Spain. 99% seems to be hard to find. It will make a difference?
I suspect the developer won't last as long but have no data, just a suspicion.
@@PictorialPlanet thanks John
Have you considered PMK? It's a very nice pyro developer too and lasts a long time. There's also pyrocat in propylene glycol.
@@PictorialPlanet I want to try they all pyros... There is the fan. But it is always problematic to find all chemicals. 510 pyro at this moment in time is the one that it seems more easily achievable, but I would like to give a go to them all. Your website and videos are really gorgeous!
Thanks Ignacio!
I wonder all these ingredients are available in Australia?
New Directions Aus. sell TEA (Triethanolamine). Gold Street Studios sell phenidone. eBay for Pyrogallol. Ascorbic acid powder is very common. Hope this helps you get started!
@@PictorialPlanet Thanks for the information. Now I can say goodbye to D76😄😄
Yes, I don't think you'll miss it! By the way, don't mix up ascorbic acid with sodium ascorbate (used in FX55 for instance). 510-Pyro must have ascorbic acid to work. It's a common form of vitamin C.
@@PictorialPlanet again, thanks for the tips. I am glad I subscribed to your channel. Quite an eye opening experience with every video simply explained so latman like me can easily understand.
🙏🙏🙏