How to Make Your Own Air brush Acrylic Paint Thinner | Cosplay Apprentice
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2020
- In this video I'll show you an awesome recipe I found for making your own Airbrush Paint Thinner so that you can save some money and easily thin down acrylic paints to use in your airbrush.
Here is the recipe:
175 ML Distilled Water
75 ML 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
15 drops of Glycerine
Let me know what Cosplay Questions you might have and I will answer them in a video on this channel!
Here are links to the items I mentioned in the video that I would recommend, if you buy any of them please use these affiliate links, it gives me a kickback at no cost to you that will help me continue to create these videos. Thanks! Cosplay On, My Friend!
Squeeze Bottles - amzn.to/2Uht7m5
Distilled Water - amzn.to/2uer3Rc
Glycerin - amzn.to/3b349gp
91% Isopropyl Alcohol - amzn.to/2RPz7Bd
Check out his Channel, this is where I found the formula:
Gumpy Modeler Channel - / @grumpymodeler
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Thanks for the short and simple video just the answers I need
you're the first person to do a DIY acrylic paint thinner with no flow improver/medium as part of the recipe
isnt glycerin a flow improver though?
@@zbow1974 more retarder than improver...
Great, straight to the point! Thanks gonna try it.
Thanks dude, i'll definitely try it.
Thank you, you saved me money for more paint!👍
Hey thanks for sharing this. I have been learning from these videos so thank you for taking the time to make them!!!
Thanks for letting me know they are helpful!! I really appreciate it! :) I'll keep making them if you keep watching them and share them with people that they can help! :)
Aah, can't wait to try this out! Thank you!
Yay!! Happy to help!! :)
Yes yes very useful great idea ❤
You keep coming up with a solution for my every cosplay need! Thanks again for your efforts on our behalf!
Yay!!! I'm so glad!!! :)
Cant I use tap water?
@@DiakuKoi of course you can. Do it and never look back and you’ll never have any problems because of it.
If you don't have glycerin, you can use liquid dish washing detergent. Just a couple of drop to break the surface tension and allow the alcohol/water to mix.
you're a saviour bro
How much dish soap to how much water?
I'm pretty sure acrylic flow aid works too.
Do you know what kind liquid dish washing detergent I should use
Dawn
Súper clear and uncomplicated, you have a new subscriber, and thanks for sharing!
Yay!! Thank you so much! Welcome to the Apprenti-squad! :)
Thin. Thanks for your help!
you are a legend thanks!
THIN, I've had an airbrush for a while but I am so scared to ruin it with acrylic paint since that's all I have so thank you for making this video, I cant wait to see the other upcoming airbrush videos
Yay! So glad it was helpful!! :)
I'm a model railroader and have several colors of Vallejo water based weathering paint. Too thick from the bottle for my airbrush at low pressure. Your recipe is the bomb. Thanks very much.
So cool. Plus, it’s stuff I already have the stuff at home.
Yay! That makes it even easier to put together! :)
Thin...great video
Thanks!
Thin. Thanks from an airbrush newbie. Been trying other solutions for acrylics. Will mix some of this today.
Yay! Let me know how it goes. Mix it to the paint is the consistency of milk :)
Been using Mop n Glo floor cleaner. It also has glycol, alcohol and water in the list. Have the help of a champion taxidermist. His fish brought trophies all through N. America. So my learning curve has been shortened. Thanks again.
@@tbsomerville5798 Nice! That is awesome! It's great to have a guide to help decrease the learning curve! :)
merci pour les video sa vas super bien THANKS YOU
De rien! :)
Thanks for the thinning tip. I just finished using it to thin some heavy body black colored acrylic artist paint so that I could mix it with some already thinned latex paint (which had a high acrylic content) of a light green color. It worked like a charm in giving me the slightly darker green I needed for the picture frame I had made.
Thx …you helped all my air brush troubles.. I was missing water and dish soap in the mix …instead of thinner I used windex.
Thank you! Danke! Grazie! Köszönöm! This was one of the best tutorials in this subject. I made it without a problem at the first try. I didn't even have to Goldie Lock it! Here is the ratio I came up with.
Let's say we use kitchen measuring spoons.
1 spoonful of acrylic paint, 2 spoonful of thinner.
I was never able to airbrush this much without clogging and spitting.
Also, another youtuber suggested that first put a little water into the reservoir and spray it out, so you start with an already wet nozzle.
Perfect!!!!!!!! Yay!! So glad it worked so well! Good tip on the wet nozzle too!!
then the airbrush painting went fine? not too watery?
chamkuli...you did it.. fantastic..
Yay!!! Thanks!!
Thank you, I'm going to try this tonight... I'm in Madeira island, so options are very limited here (no airbrush inks and a long wait to get online deliveries) X
I'm beyond stoked Dude! I'm tired of thinner for oil based enamels " not" working!
alcohol cleaning spirits like turps and iso etc. work for enamel
WOW just had someone ask me to use my Air brush . I said no because I didn''t want it to ruin my only airbrush..... Thanks for the tip!
Yay! Glad it was helpful! :)
Thanks for the video, I liked it very much! I just ordered some liquid acrylics, two different brands that I know I will have to thin down to spray for the airbrush. I plan to airbrush t-shirts, hats, jean jackets, leather jackets, Etc. What I want to know is, how to make them very permanent, I don't want to risk selling someone any artwork that is going to wash out, please advise if you can, hopefully you will already have a video about this that I haven't found
Yay! I'm glad you liked the video! :). Unfortunately I haven't done much with painting clothing so I don't have a good answer for you on that. If you do find a solution please chat it here so we can help others that may have the same question. :)
so much info online in forums and reddit basically stating: "no!!!! you cant us IPA to thin acrylic paint. It makes it gummy yada yada yada" then i see this wtf?! thank you for this video! :)
Thin. Thanks!
Can I use acrylic gloss finish or should it be matte or satin finish? Im going to use it on a tumbler that I sand and prime really well and then finish with 2 part epoxy! Thanks again!!!!
Thin 👌🏾💪🏾
Thanks, it works for 3d printed models! This one saved me a lot of time, money and trouble :)
Just bought a starter airbrush set. I was trying to use directly %99 alcohol as a thinner as the guy who sold me the airbrush said, failed hard :)
Yay! So glad it was helpful!!!! :)
does straight rubbing alcohol not work??
THIN because I have been itching to try airbrush
Yay! I'll try and make some more vids on airbrush stuff in the future! :)
have ou tried doing this for refillable spray cans (im thinking of the YouCan) you reckon it could work?
and also does it have to be distilled water can it be tap water?
I love the idea of using the YouCan thing! I need to try that out that would be amazing! :)
I cannot find 91% isopropyl alcohol anywhere online in my country. would it be allright to use 99.9%? and if it's not, any tips on what I should thin it with?
I've been wondering if this is possible for quite a while, and afraid to "just experiment" for fear of ruining my airbrush.
Here's my question: I have a partial bottle of an "Anticeptic Hand Rub" and wonder if it would work? It's 80% alcohol, and has glycerin and water in it. (Plus hydrogen peroxide.) How much of those last three, it doesn't say however.
Does this work for the water based paint ?! and what is the best color material for that ?!
Thanks for the video, I'll have to try this! But when you say Distilled Water is 3 parts vs 1 part Isopropyl Alcohol, that puts it closer to 75% water vs the measured 70% water (175/250 mL).. so it's more precisely a 7/3 mix with approximately 0.75 mL or 15 drops Glycerin. Best!
Hahaha :) Thanks! Go with the actual mL measurments not my attempt at parts. I didn't do that well in chemistry class ;)
@@CosplayApprentice Lol, thanks. I just figured it might be useful if someone was to use a different container or whatnot. I just bought some "Createx" high performance stuff that gets a decent review, I'm going to compare the two. If this works well, I'm a fan of saving some money. Thanks again!
Try this thinner............ czcams.com/video/e30WyB8KsB0/video.html
Lol I thought I was tripping when I was calculating the math
@@michealkinney6205 what's the verdict?😉
And this can work on tshirts without any blotting or soaking through ?
Thank you for this tip!
All the other videos I watch use some toxic stuff to thin paint.
This is something I don't need a respirator to work with.
I need that airbrush cleaning video. Every time I get an airbrush I take it apart to clean it and can't put it back together. So I end up buying a new one...
I'm so glad it was helpful!! :). Yeah, the cleaner mixture video will be out tomorrow! :)
This is brilliant! What ratio of home made thinner should I use for thinning acrylic paint?
Thin it a little at a time till the paint becomes a milk consistency.
@@CosplayApprentice Thanks for the info :)
You can buy the cheaper grade rubbing alcohol and use slightly less distilled water when diluting
Is there a video were you are using the mix so we can tell the difference of using this extender you discuss?
Hi really good tips can you tell me are you using vegetable glycerin thanks chazz
Yes I believe most glycerins available on the market are vegetable based glycerins :)
Hello, thanks for this video.
Can I use Demineralized water instead of Distilled water ? Thanks
It's the same.
Cool stuff, quick Q: Will it work with 99% Isopropyl Alcohol?
thank you very much
why we use Glycerin?
can I use my regular spirit alcohol ? is it the same?
The glycerin helps break the surface tension to allow the water and alcohol to mix. I am not sure if any alcohol can be used or not. :)
Spirit alcohol (for stoves and stuff) has some additives that may have adverse effects. Stick with 99,9 isopropanol, that's the best.
Glycerin slows down drying time.
Will this work for Tamia model paints? I’m using it on model planes tanks boats etc. your input would be appreciated thank you
From what I've seen it should work just fine with Tamiya acrylic paints. I've even seen people thin Tamiya paints with just water so I would imagine this concoction would work well. :)
Not sure on the glycerin. I think it puts a shelf life of 2 or 3 days. Best thing I found for thinner is regular windex. The ammonia is really the key. And no shelf life on it. Im running createx and aqua flow. I mostly paint t-shirts. I have been thinning with it for many years now. Airbrush of choice is the iwata hbpcs. And the Vega 2000. Hope this helps.
Many airbrushes have brass components that are not okay with repeated contact with ammonia. Diluted ammonia-free windex is good for cleaning your airbrush though.
Furthermore you seriously don't want to spray ammonia around your room via an airbrush and breath it in! Vallejo uses Glycerin, so I guess you should be good to use it. Shelf life of a few drops of Gycerin mixed with pure alcohol and absolutely pure water? Come on.... You can't be serious.
@@jelly8594 been using Windex as a thinner for 15 plus years. No problems yet. Also use a sonicator with a Windex solution. No problems yet. Been airbrushing in public for almost 25 years. Only replaced 2 airbrush's in that time. Bout 15 of them went through a shop fire ... And are still going.
@@Dtag1971 I was not talking about your airbrush, but your health. When ammonia enters the body as a result of breathing, swallowing or skin contact, it reacts with water to produce ammonium hydroxide. This chemical is very corrosive and damages cells in the body on contact. Even the ammonia concentration is low in the window cleaner, doing it for decades can't be good. Period.
@@jelly8594 at the very small levels I'm using it. I don't believe it's a risk at all.
Still *thin* after all these years 😁 I made a spreadsheet to calculate the proportions for different IPA concentrations; 150ml distilled water to 100ml of 70% isopropyl alcohol, or 181ml distilled water to 69ml (nice) for 99% isopropyl alcohol. Cheers for sharing this info, so useful
is it still use glycerin? and if it use, how about the proportion? is it still the same 15 drops?
So I just bought an airbrush this week as well as a bottle of Createx airbrush medium (going down the rabbit hole of youtube I saw something about it). Would I use the medium too, or is this basically replacing the use of it?
Great question, I think the Createx mediums can have multiple uses, they have ones that help make the airbrush paint more translucent, or have to have a certain finish, or things like that. They do have a thinner as well but I am not sure. This formula is specifically for thinning regular acrylic paints to be able to use them in your airbrush. :)
Nix
Watch out for that white because it will dry on the tip and spider your art.
Ok..i got this from the web
..use the createx reducer they sell at Hobby Lobby. Water works but I was getting tip dry really quick. So I made a change and YOU DON'T NEED MUCH..
DON'T USE "FANTASTIC BRAND" OR ONE THAT HAS AMMONIA. Ammonia is considered bad on the Chrome of air brushes, so most advise to NOT use any ammonia window cleaner. The rest of the "NON-ammonia window cleaners" are just ALCOHOL & water.
Nix, also get some plastic shot cups and mix the Createx and thinner,(to see what ratio YOU prefer. )(people who spray model cars with tamiya prefer 50/50 mix)
On t-shirts I have shot craft paint mixed with water BUT you got to strain the mixture or it WILL clump up on you.(had to spray a turquoise 54 chevy on a sweat shirt once.)
Is that a yes vegetable glycerin thanks chazz
Did you use industrial glycerin in this video?
can this be used for as a substitute for hobby grade thinners and paints?
I am not sure, I haven't used hobby grade ones to compare
Will it work with vallejo model color?
Could I use this with water brushes?
thank you so much! would this work with 70% IPA?
It should work maybe just use a little less distilled water so that it is not as diluted.
Just change the proportions; 150ml distilled water to 100ml 70% Isopropyl Alcohol
could i use retarder and flow improver as well? i was told by a friend but he has not been painting very long.
Looked for the video on thinning acrylic paint for use with an airbrush, but you haven't made it yet. I do have a question about DecoArts Metallic paint. If thinned to the correct consistency will this be okay to use in an airbrush? I don't know if it has metallic flecks in it, which I would think would be a problem for an airbrush.
czcams.com/video/dDYweAJfuRQ/video.html
@@CosplayApprentice At 3:04 you say, "to thin down your acrylic paint we'll do a more detailed video on that" in this video. Any info on using DecoArts Metallic Paint?
Oh gotcha, thanks for the reminder :) I forgot that we were going to do a video on that, I'll get that filmed :) You should be able to use metallic acrylic just fine. Just thin it till it is a milk-like consistency. :)
@@CosplayApprentice Thanks!
Will vegetable glycerin work, do you know?
Ok, another question. With COVID I have only been able to find 70% iso, what ratio would I use for that?
I use 70 percent with this recipe. Don't need to change the ratios. Less alcohol makes drying time just a tad slower which I like.
Thx for your sharing. Do you think your own made thinner also work with Vallejo acrylic paint? I read some articles and comments. They say that not to use alcohol to thin Vallejo paint. What companies of acrylic paints are you using?
I don't know enough about Vallejo paints to say. I've primarily used it with Liquitex, Plaid, and other generic craft acrylics.
Vallejo sells an airbrush thinner for their paints. It's a similar formula to the one in this video (20% alcohol, 79% water, 1% flow improver) so you will be fine.
I use windex to thin vallejo paint. 50% distilled water - 50% windex, then a few drops of glycerine. Works great, and way cheasper
@@Serpsor the 1% flow improver should be only Gycerin, yes?
@@jelly8594 probably, yeah. Not sure it's worth sourcing separately when you can buy 200mL bottles of it from Vallejo though
hi, what is your firm airbrush gun? thank
Hello, what kind of paints would you recommend for the textile? Could I just thinner for basic acrylic paints (water based) and use it without spending a lot of money?
Created has a textile bonding agent that is highly recommend and golden medium, just add it to the paint you have and follow the instructions
Hey, one question...have you tried Arteza acrylic paint by any chance? and your comment if possible.
I haven't used Arteza acrylic paint before. I've heard of the brand before though.
Do you happen to have ratios if i am using 99% IPA?
I can’t seem to find 91% isopropyl alcohol here in Australia and Amazon and eBay want $260+ just for postage, would a higher or lower proof alcohol still work?
Just change the proportions; 150ml distilled water to 100ml 70% Isopropyl Alcohol
I saw a video of a guy mixing windshield wiper fluid on his acrylic paints instead of water. I am going to try your mix and the windshield wiper fluid and see which one is better.
Awesome!!! Let me know what you find out, I'm curious to hear the results :)
I use the wiper fluid as a cleaner, i read an article about how its basically the same thing as commerical airbrush cleaners (water methanol and detergents) no idea if it would work as a thinner though
@@Natejoel334 i use windshield washer for thining craft acylics and windex for cleaning but remember after flushing to spray air out to remove all of the windex i should try this mix some time
Can u use vegetable glycerin
is alcol iso 99% also ok for this purpose? Thanks a lot.
Yes it should be fine, you may just need to use a little bit more distilled water thank I did in your mixture. :)
Can I use olive oil instead of glycerin? I’ve already tried it, of course, and it seems to work. Any contraindications you can think of? Tia
May I ask the importance of the distilled water? I'd love to know!
Using distilled water instead of regular water helps prevent hard water or other water residues and potential sediments from damaging the air brush. :)
@@CosplayApprentice thanks so much! This is going to be my first time making air brush paint and using one. So I need the best information. Do you have any Playlists that has tips and tricks for using an airbrush?
So by thinning paint with this it means the binders of paint won't be damaged?😮
Thin. Would it be a different ratio with 99% IPA?
THIN!
Yay!!!
can you use anything else than glycerine like is there anything similar ?
You could try and look up other hygroscopic substances that are miscible in water and alcohol and that might work. The glycerin mostly help prevent the tip on your airbrush from drying out.
Some use oil ! Add egg yolks to make a mayonnaise.
will 100% IPA work ? . cant seem to find any near where i am.
I think that might work, maybe just use a little bit less in the ratio to dilute it slightly.
Can I use the apple barrel with the airbrush?
THIN
Apple Barrel is the brand name right. I believe it is just acrylic paint right? If so you should be fine to thin it with this solution and work great in the airbrush :)
Perfect, just started paint brushing and working on figures. Your videos helped alot 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Hi :) Great video!!! Really awesome!
I can't put a hand on Angelus 2-thin for my painting. The internet community highly recommend your solution !!!
However I couldn't find isopropyl Alcohol 91% in Hong Kong. Could I replace with Isopropyl Alcohol 75% with some proportion adjustments?
You recipe has 75 ml alcohol 91% and 175 distilled water which is a total of 68.25 ml of pure alcohol and 181.75 ml of distilled water.
Based on that, would 91 ml of alcohol 75% and 159 ml of distilled water work? Following my calculation, I get back to 68.25 ml of pure alcohol and 181.75 ml of distilled water.
Apologies for the messy work around.
Cheers :)
Awesome!!! Thank you so much for watching!!! :).
Yep, if you just adjust the amount of distilled water to account for the already more diluted alcohol, that should work great! :)
great :) appreciate your swift reply. I'll try this weekend and let you know@@CosplayApprentice
Hey bud. Here is a quick update :)
I mixed your formula yesterday (with Isopropyl Alcohol 75%) and the magic took place. It is working perfectly with Angelus acrylic leather paint.
Feel free to share the 75% mix with the community if this helps.
90 ML isopropyl alcohol 75%
160 ML distilled water
15 drops of Glycerin
Thanks again for all your tips
@@CosplayApprentice
What is isopropyl alcohol used for? it is necessary?
It is necessary, it helps the paint dry quickly but also plays a major role in thinning.
how much VG for a 400ml bottle? 25 drops or so?
thank you so much! but you didn't mention how much ml alcohol you used sir..
I have it all except for glycerin, you think it will still work?
I haven't tried it without. I think it helps break the surface tension and allows the alcohol and water to mix better and not separate as well has help prevent the airbrush tip from drying out. :)
@@CosplayApprentice so bad idea? I'm really just in the mood to paint so I'm willing to experiment.
Many people have asked me if they need the glycerin so if you are willing to experiment let me know how it goes, it would be good to know. :).
When I've used acrylic with water it never flowed well, so I've always paid inflated prices for airbrush paint...which sometimes is so low on pigment that it almost seems like acrylic paint and water, but at least the real airbrush paint flows. This is probably what was missing. The folk art acrylic paints are cheap and good quality. My guess is that craft grade acrylics, the cheap stuff, mixes all of the colors from a synthetic red, blue, and yellow (which is why craft grade paints rarely have an actual magenta. The really cheap paints do not even sell a purple because you can't mix a good purple from red and blue), whereas the artist grade acrylics use a variety of pigments to make the colors, and also use megenta, cyan, etc instead of cheesing it with red and blue....and artist grades use whatever material will help them get the pigment. So I buy whatever colors I can in the craft grade, then get a few colors from the artist grade. Folk Art and Deca are craft grade, but higher quality craft grade because those are dirt cheap...like a dollar a bottle, , then buy the hard to mix colors in artist grade. There is a huge difference in quality in craft grade paints and between craft grade and artist grade. For inexpensive art grade, the Liquitex mid-grade artist paints are excellent. I think you want an acrylic that is high pigment. Craft paints are ok, but the super cheap craft paints are terrible...and you do not save money with off name super cheap craft grade paints because they are soooo cheap that you use 3 times as much paint and 3 times the work doing multiple coats. airbrush paint is acrylic, so this is legitimately making airbrush paint.
Sweet!!! I'm so glad it was helpful!! :) You make some really good points on the different paints! Let me know how it goes for you :)
Craft acrylic paints have little if any polyurethane in it. Use 100 to 50% floor wax to thin your craft paints/ It makes it flow better, improves adhesion, more scratch resistant.
@@BennyCFD I think you mean acrylic urethane. The less, the better, because it's toxic. And I seriously hope that you don't spray floor wax without a proper ventilation, high quality filter mask or even booth.
The chemist at my job said I shouldn't use glycerine for my airbrush because it'll build up over time then clog up or run it. But a lot of the videos I see people use it. Any comments on that? What are your experiences with using glycerine?
Most of the things we put through the airbrush will build up and clog it over time. That's why it requires consistent maintenance and cleaning. The use of glycerine reduces the chance of clogs happening during use b/c it acts as a retardant and a flow aid. The biggest concern for airbrushes is clogging/damage via dried paints.
and then what is the acrylic paint - thinning solution mixture ratio to put in the airbrush please?
Here is the video on how to get the right mixture :) czcams.com/video/oDLMZYSv4Q4/video.html
@@CosplayApprentice that helped thanks
Yay!! Perfect! :)
So..., with the current pandemic it seems to be impossible to find isopropyl alcohol. What can be used in its place?
Great question, I will try and look into that
I'm trying regeant alcohol
Let me know how it goes. :)
Just use 25% Fantastic cleaner and 75% water. This thins, cleans, acts like a flow improver, and helps prevent dry tip. czcams.com/video/e30WyB8KsB0/video.html
What is the reason for glycerin? I've used about this ratio for thinning paints myself.without the glycerin.
From what I understand it helps the alcohol and water mix better without separating. And helps keep your airbrush tip from drying out :)
Thanks.
Happy to help! Thank you for watching!! :)
Slows down drying time
How many ml alcohol ? Please and thanks 😇
Your other video brought me here to this one
Hi, I am in Canada and I couldn't seem to find 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, can I use 99%, will that work/make a difference? Thanks
Should work just fine, just add a little less of it and a little more distilled water to adjust proportionally and it should come out about the same. :)
99 is even better
What is with the gear on your right hand? What is it for?
The thing on my hand has an LED light on the tip of my pointer finger and thumb, so that if I am working on something (painting etc..) what I am working on can be illuminated even if it is in shadow :)
I add vegeatable glycerin ?
Would like to know approximately how much thinner to paint. One DIY video says half and half....does that sound about right?
I'd say it ended up probably closer to 1/3 paint 2/3 thinner but mine was pretty thick to start so I would think 50-50 would be a pretty good place to start. :)
I can only find 99% isopropyl alcohol.... does it have to be 91% or the purer the better?
I think you can get away with higher maybe just adjust your reason a little bit to add a little more water and a little less alcohol to dilute it slightly. :)
This is 99% with distilled water to decrease down to 91%. I've got more doubts regarding microdrops of glycerin in my lungs.
Can this be used for brush painting?
I use it all the time to thin down acrylic paint just for brushing on with a paint brush and for doing an aging wash coat as well :)
Cosplay Apprentice thank you so much.
Does the alcohol need to be 91 percent
It is ok to 70 percent alcohol?
Hey bud thanks for sharing due to the shortage of alcohol I can only find 70% alcohol cannot find any 93% does it really matter if you don't have 93% thank you for sharing
I think you can just adjust the ratio of distilled water to account for the lower % . So just use less distilled water in the mixture.
Thank so much for that info will try that tomorrow.
hey there, i make my own Paint Thinner too but with this virus shit going on, i can only get 99.9% Pure Isopropyl Alcohol, could i use this instead of the 91%, Any help would be great before i buy this
You should be able to make it work by diluting it with distilled water. If you Google "how to dilute 99% to 91%" there are a couple formulations for diluting it. :)
Dang virus is even making it harder to thin air brush paint :/
Due to this COVID mess I can’t find any 91% would another % work?
Totally get it. I am pretty sure you can use different percentages, just adjust the ratio of distilled water based on what you get. Example if you get higher % add more distilled water to dilute it down more. If lower % add less distilled water etc. Hope that helps, also in the comments here someone else mentioned that there is another type of product you can use, I can't remember the name of it but that might be an option as well :)