D&D Went Full Disney! Media CALLS OUT Wizards of the Coast?!
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
- Dungeons & Dragons has tried to mimic Disney's playbook -- turning a nerdy dude hobby like Marvel or Star Wars into a "lifestyle brand." And they're failing miserably. It's so bad that the media is calling out WotC and Cynthia Williams for it! Then we talk about Warhammer 40K and its descent into "wokeness."
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![A Crap Guide to D&D [5th Edition] - Wizard](/img/n.gif)
>create a space for ourselves
>outsiders demand representation
>outsiders take over and change it
>outsiders say if you don't like it, create your own space
Repeat ad nauseum.
>create a space for ourselves
>outsiders demand representation
>we tell them to fuck off
Break the cycle
kind of like what's happening in the outside world. It's not a coincidence.
Remember, gatekeeping is only wrong when you do it
@@justins340 Unfortunately, money gets involved.
Yeah, they don't say "create your own space", they don't want that. It is more "crawl under a rock and die".
I am not so sure so many of these people even get into most spaces, they get into the companies that manages them instead.
I think they belive that if they change things the way they like them, we will see their wisdom and join them and everyone sings kumbaya.
What really is happening is of course that we stop buying products and services from said companies instead and either stick with old products or move and there ain't enough outsiders to keep the companies going long term.
We are already seeing the start of a collapse in Hollywood, comics and the American gaming industry. A lot of jobs are lost.
WotC did fire a whole bunch of people too already and it will hardly be the last time that happens.
Why are they calling the old stuff 'iconic' when they dislike it so much? It is iconic to me, not to them.
Because it makes THEM sound "cool," or so they think. A lot of us know that is a lie.
Because they are tourists who only know it because it was on Stranger Things
So WoTC can maintain their copyright hold on it.
Legit 💯🤨👍
They're Iconoclasts. First they claim the icon with only the intention to destroy them.
You never go full Disney
Lincoln Osiris true quote
🤣😂😆
You can, if you're Disney.
And you hate your customers.
indeed, thus the result is stright up Yikes.😬 Yeah, never go full Disney and also Modern Audience doesn't exist. WOTC need to stop panderning. 😑☕
Bwaahhahhaah!
The irony that they consider older D&D and Warhammer nerds as Chuds. These are the outcasts of pop culture and fashion for long before it was cool.
We get popular and successful, so they come to our stuff and try kicking us to the shadows again.
Don't forget that we were welcoming but they accused us of gatekeeping
@Tony_409 remember, they only call you a gatekeeper because they want to change the hobby to suit them.
The feminist infiltrated the scene. Thank God the metal community is intact.
For now, I'm sure it's on someone's list for the future after they destroy the areas they've currently infested.
@@Tony_409Sure worked well! Seems like gatekeeping is clearly the right thing to do.
D&D and WH40K, both franchises absolutely destroyed by wokeness, which really is a plague on society.
Nobody is going to rid society of that plague.
WarHammer sucks.
WH40k is only in stage 1. Nowhere yet at Star Trek, Star Wars or Dr Who levels of DEI nonsense. They will get there at this rate.
No.
D&D was ruined by preppy kids realizing D&D wasn't a game played in parent's basements by nerds and creeps.
D&D was ruined by capitalist pigs who have no moral issues bleeding us dry of every penny we have.
D&D was ruined by people like you who don't understand that "wokeness" is today's form of calling someone a -censored- lover. :)
Being called a Fcst by people that don't know what a Fcst is doesn't bother me.
I don't care.
They only know that facism is bad so they are using it.
They are just using bunch of hateful words that make no sense in the context of their topic simply because "this thing is bad, so I will label everyone who disagrees with me as it."
The new religion which I personally call *"Woke Scourge".*
Is a religion based on two things and two things only: *Seek and destroy.*
Well that's a bit of a rule: if The Mary Sue is against you, you must be doing something right.
The word has lost all meaning.
My brother had a problem with this.
He was accusing people he did not like of being Fcst, so I simply asked him what it means. He refused to answer.
So I said "You don't really know what it means, do you?" and he got defensive and said "Yes I do!" to which I responded "Then tell me literally anything about it. The ideological principles, the key players, who founded the movement... Anything."
He said "I'm not going to argue with you" and stormed off, proving the best way to fight this kind of ignorance is to inform yourself first and then use your knowledge to expose their lack of knowledge, making them look like a fool.
Me ne frego. They hold no power over you if you flip them off, laugh at them, and refuse to treat them with any kind of legitimacy or seriousness.
They used to bully those guys for playing D&D but now that it's geek chic, they are pushing them out of their own hobby as the IP is turned into a generic lifestyle brand.
Oh, it still attracts geeks. The difference is that intellect used to be the gatekeeper because there was tons of (gasp) MATH involved. D&D in the 80s was for the kids from the Chess Team and Computer Club, not the theater kids with weird hair and The Cure t-shirts.
The theater kids were all playing Vampire the Mascerade
Ironically nothing much has changed, except the bullies are now claiming ownership of the game instead of attacking it from the outside in. The same guys get flamed all to hell for playing D&D, just under different excuses. (Ironically, without this same basic playerbase D&D itself would peter out and fade into irrelevance and the tourists would move on to the next consoom-product push, but that is more or less the goal anyway.)
Current WOTC leadership doesn't have a clue what D&D is. Neither does Hasbro.
selling clothing is not the problem. the problem is that they spent a lot of time shitting on their customers and shitting on the lore. when you tell everybody the lore is problematic you are alienating old customers and you are turning off any potential new customers.
Plain and simple. Write it up in crayon and send it to WotC. maybe then they'll understand it.
I love how it is "going full Disney."
Buying an IP and culturally and politically changing so much you leave your audience behind. Respect the customer or lose them.
If I can give up beer, I can give up everything else. (I was shocked almost everything I bought was AB. Not Bud Light, but so much of my variety was now bought by AB.).
Back in the day, we use to call that: "Pulling an EA"
Yengling is pretty good. Also I've found a nice wine I like if I'm just relaxing.
I used to like Stella, which is also AB, but by the time of the scandal I'd given up beer completely already, going keto. I basically don't drink at all, and if I ever do it'll be like finger of mead, I do love mead, it's just off the menu now.
Speaking of which, have you heard about Disney trying to break into anime?
@@Tony_409 sadly yes. I'm really hoping Japan isn't stupid enough to fall for it.
I knew it wasn't coincidence when fully half of the females in their artwork gained pink or blue hair with one side shaved to a buzz cut
"Don't judge a book by its cover!" said the people who defaced their personal covers. Gee, you think that might indicate a philosophy that likes defacing things?
Nah, you can't judge people by their actions. /s
White women were a mistake
Isnt bright colors on animals in nature usually a sign of the animal being highly toxic?
Gawd that half shaved head looks so stupid
@@user-gf5rq2rx3y Yes. That is correct.
D&D has become 'Dungeons and Disney' and Star Wars under Disney has become 'Lez-beans with Lightsabers.'
childish comment bud
I love how "Going full Disney" has become a thung, because back in the day it was "Going full EA", which basically was to acquiring a brand, stripping it of everything that made it unique and profitable, and just deatroy it and abosrbing all assets into the company.
Really gets to sjow how Dianey has become the new EA, in all the bad ways.
Disney also means more to society at large than EA ever did. So of course society is latching on to the new term more readily. Because more people get that reference.
EA continues to do it …
@@lysfranc8782 That last one about ads on 80$ games are fun as hell
I thought it was called going full retar
"Going full Blackrock" would be more accurate.
Too bad the folks saying this about D&D were silent when Disney was ruining both Marvel & Star Wars years back....
They don’t see it back then. Shit only hit the fan as of late. You’re a decade or two too late.
Plus, Marvel and Star Wars were much better known back then vs D&D. People knew about Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc. Star Wars was also on an upswing of popularity even with the prequels at the time. Both had large mass appeal. Turning them into massive brands was much easier than turning D&D.
When they came for comic books I said nothing...
@@alexanderchristopher6237 No, they actively denied it back then, and attacked the fans who were pointing it out. They refused to see it.
D&D fans had the OSR since the early 2000s keeping TSR-era D&D alive. There's been a ton of old-school D&D product created by third party publishers in the last 20 years. Old school D&D players learned long ago that we didn't need WotC in order to keep playing D&D.
Star Wars died in 1999. I stood in line to watch Episode 1 on opening night. That was the last SW movie I watched until TFA, which I think I pirated just to see if it was as bad as E1. There are _three_ Star Wars movies and the rest is just Fan Fiction.
D&D is a "freemium" game. The Dungeon Masters spend the money, and the players play for free. It's an ecosystem.
If the players are into it, they buy supplemental rulebooks for their favorite class.
If _every_ player had to buy all $200 worth of rulebooks to start to play, they would never start to play, and the hobby would never have taken off.
It's almost like they don't even understand the product they're selling.
Because none of them actually play
Little do they realize how easily those "customers" can get their hands on the books for free...
They call the old DnD iconic, yet happily hate and retcon it all.
And it is ironic that the changes they hope to get new consumers, only made them lose both new and old consumers.
I can create a character with a dozen flavors of canonical furry, but they think DnD isn't diverse? Only someone who's never actually seen players go nuts at a session zero would think this.
I've only ever been a spectator to one session at my cousin's place in my entire life, and yeah, it can get wild! But in the best possible way! 😂
Hell, there's four different flavours if scalies if you're into that sort of thing (Dragonborn, Kobolds, Lizardfolk and Tortles)
To be fair, it can sometimes be hard to tell at some tables how diverse the game can be: when you wind up with two guys fighting over who gets to play the same optimized character they found on a game board the weekend before, two people playing sullen lone-wolf dual-wielding drow elf rangers, the GM's overweight goth-sausage girlfriend playing the same blue-haired, purple-eyed, flirty demon catgirl night-elf character that she always plays but with a slightly different name each time, Beardy McAxeBeard the Scottish Dwarf Axeman #337, and That One Guy who always wants to play a hyperactive, backstabbing chaotic-annoying gnome rogue, it's easy to say "For cryin' out loud, I wish you guys could play something DIFFERENT for a change!"
But, IF the players wanted to play something different, the rules have allowed for genuine diversity from the beginning, with 3rd Edition at the very least codifying that sort of diversity by even using the same character creation rules for monsters as for the usual character races, and including rules for making do-it-yourself variations on the default character races, so that you aren't limited to traditional European fantasy race cliches.
Meanwhile, the last several times I listened in on a game of 5th Edition D&D, there wasn't a human, elf, dwarf, or halfling anywhere to be found, because everyone was playing all the latest character gimmicks - demons, turtle-people, elephant-people, robots, etc.... it's kind of gotten to a point where in modern groups, you can shock and surprise people by trying to play something as weird and exotic as a human fighter, while GMs and rules-lawyers may even insist that doing so is probably against the rules, and more than likely impossible....
They’ve been going the path of Disney for years and all for an audience that won’t even buy their new stuff, meanwhile the original fans are home-brewing their games as they should.
Homebrewing is A+ my man!! A+!! XD
There are far better TTRPGs out there then modern D&D. Support those alternatives that are worth supporting.
EXACTLY! Like "The Harrowed Earth" being produced by *DaemonEye Publishing* . You can even DL a free pdf for basic character creation on thier website.
I've played in some of the playtesting games, and it a BLAST! And I'm not just saying that because I was playing a dynamite-slinging cowboy in the Wild West, lol. Oh, speaking of, evidently you can find videos of a group playing a "Wierd West" campaign on Kynhart's CZcams channel 😂
The writer even has a novel out in the same universe, called "Fallen Off The Bifrost", by Jay Barrell. Supposedly the rule book will be coming out once all the internal artwork is in.
I still play NON modern D&D. Because I will always love what I grew up with. And what I grew up with was NOT THIS! lol
I play pathfinder 1e. Paizo has also gone full Disney however, so I won't touch 2e.
There's other systems I like, big fan of Trudvang(Trudvang Chronicles). (The original 8e Drakar och Demoner version, not the 5e DnD adaption).
I play D&D every Friday night. None of us have bought any new books or materials since 3rd edition. WotC has no ability to control us, and I think that's what makes them the angriest.
@@OnlyKaeriusI would honestly just use archives of Nethys if I wanted to play Pathfinder and Starfinder 2e. Yet I would love to make my own system. However, I have not played a TTRPG.
D&D is like Chess, you only need one set & your good for life. To me there is only TSR D&D.
I'm playing Advanced 2nd Edition right now, I am trying to get a BECMI game going as that edition has surprising depth.
thac0 got me fucked up
The only bad thing is that WoTC demonizes both TSR and the players.
The way that Disney and WoTC go about this is exactly how the Nazis went after Jews in Nazi Germany.
The fanaticism and ideology is the same. It’s scary.
@@talesofgore9424 In that case, just use a to-hit table instead of doing a thac0 calculation.
@@newtpondskipper I alternate between them too. I use some stuff from 1e as well like tables and such.
Hurting the brand has a price, it's not easy to bring back people who left for something better. There are better options out there for tabletop rpg gaming than DnD.
Alien table top RPG is really good
They want a quick cash grab since Hasbro is sinking
This was exactly how WotC ended up creating Pathfinder in 2007, by trying to restrict the licencing of 4.0.
Most of the gaming groups I’ve been in had chicks in them. And I had black friends that played too. It’s never been just white dudes.
I had roughly the same reaction to that line. I played late 80s/early 90s mostly, 1/3 of the group was male, and half of us weren't straight. Might have been because we're European and not American...
Back in the 70s it was mostly white, early 80s everyone played it. It was huge. Was diverse by the early 80s.
To be fair, when I was still playing at school, it was in a small rural Midwestern or southern US town in Bible Belt hill country, and mostly nerdy white guys played, sometimes a GM's Girlfriend would join, but the core of the group was nerdy white guys. Still, just about everyone at school was white, the neighborhood was just about all white, and for that matter just about everyone was more or less distantly related to each other because the area had been settled by people who immigrated together from the Old Country.
We'd have gladly played the game with anyone else, but in a small town like that, young women were rarely interested, and the pool of guys interested in joining came in pretty much one colour, with ancestry from one specific region of one specific European country. And we just as gladly played the game that way when we could - it was tough to get a group together back then, you took what you could get, and nerdy white guys were pretty reliable players, sharing similar interests and non-gaming hobbies such that we usually had a lot in common with each other, so we were more likely to enjoy the same games and more likely to hang out together gaming instead of doing something else - for the purposes of building a consistent and reliable gaming group, that lack of diversity was a feature, not a bug!
I was one of the chicks (not in your group, probably), and boyyyy did I get bullied for it by other girls.
Now I'm back to getting bullied for it, but I'm too old and scarred to give a rat's patootie.
Nah, the problem is that it -was- all hidden in little groups in someone basement. And because people assume their own experience is the norm, the all white male groups simply never realized D&D never had a diversity problem. Some neighborhoods/schools/social circles might have a diversity issue, resulting in a certain type of group, but that was never the game's fault. That's why the forced diversity feels so weird, diverse people have always been here. Yeah, there's toxic tables, then you find a different table, or make your own (and become a forever GM but that's a whole other rant). Lets face it, if WOTC want to cash in on D&D? They need to step up their dice production. We need one book. We'll never have enough dice.
Despite Hasbro's new catchphrase, D&D isn't for everyone. D&D is for people who like D&D. 5th edition is not D&D. WotC has strayed so far from the spirit of D&D that the game has become unrecognizable.
fIFth EdiTiOn sUckS
Stfu and go buy your collectibles. You're just as much of the problem as Disney is
Stop catering to an audience that doesn't exist, stop patronizing and demonizing the people PAYING you. It should be common sense.
They aren't trying to make money. They they are trying to destroy your culture. It's communism and you normies aren't paying attention
Don't worry; all their incredibly stupid financial decisions will be justified when the new diverse audience finally shows up and starts buying anything. All we need to do is wait.
They're trying to give DnD the Star Wars treatment.
Because that worked so well for Star Wars.
Star Wars, Marvel,... basically Disney 😡
That retcon of the warrior on the red box, and the female warrior figure, man, its so ridiculous in so many ways... First of, if there is one guy who can draw amazing women, that guy is Larry Elmore. If he wanted the red box warrior to be a woman, you can BET anyone would be able to tell it's a woman! Second, in that same book you can see a warrior using that same helmet, and it's easy to see it's the same character, just at level 1. It is undenyably a MAN. And third, they completely ignored Aleena, from that same set, one of the most memorable D&D characters of ALL TIME. I can't imagine a single fan who wouldn't want an Aleena figure. Once again they proved they don't want to empower woman, they want to destroy man. Hell if the problem is that Aleena is a cleric and they wanted a warrior, just pick Morgan Ironwolf, from the basic Moldvay set. I mean they had so many options. Their rage against man made them blind, they're completely out of their minds.
"There's no such thing as bad publicity." I can't help but think they've gone full P.T. Barnum on us, because NOBODY would be talking about this figure if it had been done correctly except for hard-core miniatures collectors and Larry Elmore fans.
While I agree with everything you say the problem is, He is on the cover and not her. To them that is the goal and they need the established nostalgia. Iconic cover? It must be ours!
Larry Elmore went on the record the warrior was a man and they made the change without consulting him
Hating men has worked soooo well too.
Hating men is what:
1. influenced men to vite for Trump.
2. Convinced men to stop dating, approaching, protecting, supporting and helping women.
All gamers need to play D&D is PHB, DMG, MM, dice, paper, pencils and an imagination.
Adventure modules are optional. If wizards wants me to buy this stuff they need to make some that I want to play and buy.
And I'm sorry but I'm not interested in doing a gay prom or role playing a coffee shop day.
100% correct
Guilty confession time: Me and my friends still play D&D! Why? Because we don't pay attention to what's going on in the larger world, with the game. We don't CARE! We play 3rd Edition D&D, because in our opinions that's where the game STOPPED getting better! That every release since 3rd Ed has been pretty mediocre. So we stick to the time period where D&D was at its' most awesome. And we pretend D&D hasn't gone any further than that. Because that's what D&D is all about, right? Playing "pretend"?? lol
What‘s the confession here? Everybody plays the games they own and find somebody to play with them. Who cares about what WotC does outside from not buying into their new money schemes? WotC could go bankrupt tomorrow and people would play D&D for the next 100 years.
My friends and I have been playing since around '84, we were playing 5e (skipped 4e completely) and we recently went back to 2e.
@@thesonofdormammu5475 I started with 2e in the early 90’s and that was peak dnd to me. I play 5th now, I’ve put thousands into the game over the years, but 2e was peak for me, it was all downhill after they changed thac0 imo, but it wasn’t until now that I’m over spending any new money with them
The problem isn't really that they want more players to play D&D, it is that what they do turn off their actual paying customers and replacing the actual paying customers with a new one is a risky move. That worked poorly with Marvel and Star wars and it works poorly with D&D too.
Never piss off the people who actually buy your product. The reason the IP is worth money is because those customers. If you want a new customer base you make a new product, not totally change your old product that are actually earning you money because that usually backfire hard.
... yes! This is exactly my take on this. I mean, sure, sell the merch, try to get new (other) people into it. But don't chase away the guys that have been fans of your stuff for decades! Trouble is - the old fans bring a slow but steady trickle of profits, which will keep company afloat maybe forever, but it won't satisfy the investors. Most of this is a result of an extremely greedy version of capitalism, which came when people stopped buying shares for the "long run", but started using all sorts of "financial instruments"., fast trading, etc...
@@chloralhydrate Agreed, things like fashion is a fickle market, the product you just released is dated 6 months from now so it is an odd choice going into that besides T-shirts.
It seems that every media company out there decided to get rid of their audience to chase the "modern audience" instead, and that is pretty baffling.
First of all is the "modern audience" nowhere as large as they seem to think and even if it was, they would still need to get enough of them into their products which is something that takes year while you basically have nothing.
And worst of all, every media company wants the exact same audience so they are competing with each other for the same people's money and they haven't exactly choose a rich target either. Why would a large proportion of them spend their time and money on your specific product?
That is why we see the large western game studios firing people at a rapid rate and why Hollywood is losing a fortune. Somehow WotC thought "we need a piece of that".
It is a really stupid decision when your product have had a loyal customer base for 50 years. Sod them all and let's go for theoretical money instead.
Oh, and let's join those failing studios with most of our money too while we are at it, that is a great idea, right?
My parents were the nerds playing D&D back in the 80s. I was introduced to it in 89.
It's because they're creatively bankrupt. The well is empty. The game can't go any further for them, so they're trying to market into all this stupid shit - and it's NOT D&D - just to make a few more bucks, milk it for all its worth. I hope it's worth for them in the end, pissing off all their original fans.
All of this stuff is coming to a head now. You're starting to see a shift. These big companies are realizing that they can't just buy up an IP and repurpose it for their needs without getting fleeced.
Yup. The pendulum started swinging the other way a couple of years ago. But only NOW is it really starting to gain some serious momentum! Two more years from now, the Left isn't even going to know what hit them!
Are we? As far as I can tell, we're still going to be inundated with years of garbage in every nerd space before anything improves. Some of our spaces like Star Wars, Doctor Who, and The Witcher have already been irreparably ruined, and the usual suspects seem to be trying as hard as they can to target everything else for debasement and destruction. There is literally not a single American-owned property that I'm excited for the future about right now, and at the very least Disney wants to try its hand at ruining everything out of Japan as well.
Haven‘t seen a single company course correcting, so imo we are still far away from any shifts, sadly.
It's not about making a more 'diverse' player base to sell shit too, it was about making a more *superficial* player base to sell shit too, and the 'diverse' crowd are the most superficial people in the world.
True. Definitely it is the group that just jumps onto whatever is the new trend.
D&D, Warhammer 40k, everything Disney and the metastasized unholy mass of Dr Who, I'm getting the uneasy feeing that we're about to reach the long dreaded singularity of sh*t.
Only if you're paying attention to it. Plenty of good stuff everywhere else, if you bother to look.
@@MemoristCed Exactly. People limit their scope to what's bad rather than the great.
Well, they are looking for ANYTHING with a large male demographic, and attacking it.
Thank god for the older content
Exactly. Me and my D&D gang have stuck to 3rd Edition (maybe slipped in some 3.5 now and then), because that is where D&D was at its' best. It's all been downhill from there. So we reject the "new crap." More D&D faithful should do that. Hasbro can't ruin what was already established before they took the brand over.
Great Horned Mickey is an example of what not to do.
Yeah … his ascension to a chaos god did cost us dearly :(
Blame the rise of social media for the rise in wokeness.
ANTI-social media has ruined American society! We all need to get away from that crap, and start over the internet again... from a time when the internet was COOL!!
They never should have given the woke an inch. The community should have gatekeep harder.
The first “critical mass” of it all was arguably Tumblr, 2016 probably was the first mainstream “warning shot” of what was to come. After that, with the great tumblr exodus to the at the time already mainstream but not yet infamous Twitter, the tendrils of such things started wiggling their way into the mainstream companies, politics, etc blatantly and wrapping itself throughout them like an insidious creeping vine that itself also had the abilities of swarms of locusts. Sucking the life of things once beloved and replacing them with pestilence before moving on to the next thing once all vitality had been expunged and corruption of the beloved refuges were all that remained.
WOTC took notes from Disney after all.
D&D has many wonderful settings:
D&D, Greyhawk, DragonLance, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, RavenLoft, Mystara, Spelljammer, Al Qadim, BirthRight, Eberron, and even Gammarauders.
There might be a few others that I am forgetting.
Hasbro/WOTC was failing even before the agenda pushing weirdos infiltrated the company.
I Hasbro wants to make it a life style brand they need to start cross marketing with Mt Dew, Doritos, Little Caesars, and the producers of 32oz and greater mugs.
Ah yes, so we can sip our Baldur's Gate Blast Mtn. Dew while we munch on our Spicy Calimport Doritos.
We used to meet around a big pile of, well, roasted meat purchased from Rudy's. Good times!
Happily I have my old books and don’t need anything Hasbro makes.
I would be interested to know if Hazbozo and Wankers of the Crotch ever bothered to determine who is buying most of the books, screens, dice, miniatures, and other assorted core items. Yes, there very well may be more non-White, non-male players than there were in the days of AD&D, but who is buying most of the stuff that fills out the bottom line? Which group is making the cash registers ring?
I am willing to bet that the core audience accounts for at least 80% of the sales. Chasing "diversity" ain't gonna pay the bills...
They probably do but believe they are a captive audience that will continue buying no matter the abuse thrown at them
That or the modern audience will replace the problematic old one.
We've been over this. They don't care about money or making a good product. It's about ideology first and scamming people into thinking that the artificial cheap goods are the real thing.
I'm going to steal those terms! I love em! 😂
You would have a point, except for the fact that WoTC has been infiltrated by armchair "activists" that are really little more than rebels without a cause. Said activists have shamelessly wormed their way in grima style, dripping their venom into the ears of those who make decisions until said decision maker can hear nothing but the honeyed lies.
These, slacktivists never felt like they were represented in a, you're gonna love this part, FUCKING POWER FANTASY
Imagine Hasbro/WoTC surprise, when they release their new books later this year, and no one buys them. Why would we? We already know they are full of The Message.
D&D will survive, just as it always has. We all have our books for our favorite edition to play, and since most of us make up our own adventures, and don't buy the Adventure Modules, we can play forever, no matter what WoTC does. Now we have AI for art as well as adventure ideas, websites like Dungeon Master Tools, that will help any DM reduce the time it takes for session prep.
D&D could stop production today, and we would STILL be playing 50 years from now.
There's also been an OSR movement putting out tons of third party content for about 20 years now. D&D belongs to the fans, not a company. It will never die.
Both WoTC and Hasbro are too blame for this.
If either had any sense, they'd be in talks with Larian after BG3's success to create Neverwinter Nights 3...not whatever is going on now.
Fuck no. Bg3 is complete trash. They don't need to ruin anything else.
I mean their coding is already done and proven! They should cut them a outstanding deal and contribute to its success (marketing, prizes...)
@@logangodofcandyI have to say even with the EXTREMELY woke ideology peppered throughout the game BG3 is not garbage. It’s extremely good as a game and story telling.
However from what I understood the majority of the people at WoC that worked with the people at BG3 are no longer there as they were laid off. Hence why there will be no DLC.
I too didn't care for BG3. Played with a bit with friends, before I realized I just was not having any fun. Sadly, took over two hours to realize this, so rip $60 bucks. I honestly wish that Obsidian actually were the ones who made BG3, instead of having it canceled.
Thankfully, they made their own isometric crpg series called Pillars of Eternity, and I now consider it the spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate. Also quick mention to Owlcat's Pathfinder crpg games, and how they made it for players of Pathfinder who know the rules, and how to play the game.
Cant monetize my imagination Hasbro.
They're trying, though. They want money in their bank account, every time a person thinks about a copyrighted property.
The outcasts made D&D and then have been casting out their fan base.
So when is WotC going to release the book, “A dummies guide to owning slaves?” Cuz that’s part of their game.
D&D could have been similar to Marvel.
D&D had novels, comic books, video games, cartoons, movies, and toys.
Hasbro/WOTC utterly failed to to maintain all those product lines.
Hasbro/WOTC COMPLETELY FAILED with their absolute joke of an action figure line.
This is what happens when you let theatre kids take over nerd space.
Disney must have been serving Bud Light with Gillette.
Disney was capitavated and enthralled by the ESG/DEI crowd.
It's a common theme among publicly traded companies over the last decade, especially companies found in English speaking western nations. And this is why we are seeing a rise in popularity of eastern made media, basically in lock step with the drop in popularity of western made media. And we are talking video games, comics, manga, and so on all being involved here.
You would have thought that after high school the 'cool kids' would have stopped picking on the nerds and destroying their stuff. Just shows that the true nature of people don't change that much and it's really easy to see. Stay strong nerds!
Reminder that it's also the Guardian who had a piece on why "If all but the most diehard gamers want to embrace female characters and inclusivity, the rest of the world should take note"
They can all go pound sand. Leave nerd hobbies be for nerd hobbies, tourists.
This is what happens when you bring in executives that dont have any clue about what they are supposed to be doing.
DND was never undermentioned, it was supported by what the market could Handle. They wanted to turn it into something it could never bee. Instead of figuring out how to make the most of what it actually was.
I wonder NOW if this is the reason behind rebooting the "Golden Axe" video game into a series... To cash in on what D&D is trying to do.
I hadn't thought of Golden Axe for decades now, and I had to look it up: THAT'S when I re- discovered that the male and female characters in the game were all in scanty outfits. Yes, babes in bikinis AND muscular guys in near- speedos.
A cash-in attempt makes sense, although the outfits will NOT be as revealing in a movie/ TV show. Much less an American cartoon series.
I mean... they *_ARE_* gonna go the way of Disney, and the result is going to be the same: appeal to the people who were never interested in your brand to begin with, and the inevitable result is your funds run dry
Company should change its name to has been bro.😂
Actually, I was trying to find a quality waffle iron for my mother's birthday (Not EVERYONE wants an effing Belgian waffle, manufacturers!) and happened to run across an officially licensed D&D waffle maker, that has a D20 shape in the middle of the waffle.
I didn't get it, of course, because I doubt mom wants D&D waffles, and I don't want to put money in current year WoTC's pockets.
I just cannot understand how Disney and WotC can hate their own product and demonize their customers at the same time. And they’re open about it too.
I just don’t get it.
How do you get 1 million from making a TTRPG, start with 2 million! : )
An artist i watch on Twitch thinks that the mini was a mistake by the sculptor and WotC decided to go with instead of paying the sculptor to make another one!
How many people that buy Harley Davidson stuff, ride a Harley Davidson?
I buy triumph stuff because I own a triumph. I'm guessing most people who buy HD own one or have an immediate family member that does
Very few. The average age of a Harley rider is like 65 now. There best selling model is a trike.
@@logangodofcandynope not really Harley makes more money on merchandise than bikes now and the average age of Harley riders are 65(in the 80s the average age was 30). Only old people pretending to be young ride Harley now. Kinda like old geezers driving corvettes.
@@markcarpenter6020 Harley has become the 21st Century's "Midlife Crisis-mobile." Kinda like how the Pontiac Firebird used to stand for that, for so long. Now nobody drives Firebirds anymore, so we have to latch on to some new relic of history, and tightly hold onto it until the day us old folks finally die.
@@jacob4920 I always thought Corvette was the brand of choice for old men pretending to be young.
time 16:44
No. This is not a corporate thing.
Controlling society is more important than making money.
The money will come after they have total control.
Crony capitalism is not the same as free market capitalism.
@@FoxtrotFleet Capitalism is the Marxist version of a' Free-Market'. They are not one and the same.
@@FoxtrotFleet What they are doing is not capitalism of any kind.
They are communists.
Why do people always intend to invade nerd spaces and destroy them from within? Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Doctor Who and now D&D and Warhammer. The only thing that I like that hasn't been ruined is anime. Honestly, at some point, I wanna do a D&D campaign where everything is 1st Edition. AD&D stuff. That would be neat
What is with all these companies becoming so out of touch with their customer base; Disney, all of Hollywood, Games Workshop, XBox, Sony, Bud Lite, etc. Wtf
Look into the worlds 2 biggest investment firms Blackrock and Vanguard, which each own eachother funnily enough, and their social credit score wokeness that coorporations need to do if they want investments,
Its because they are listening to companies like Sweet Baby inc.
Yeah its like they are digging their own grave.
D&D is the McDonalds of Tabletop. Fight me.
Why?
Sounds quite accurate to be honest except Hasbro didn’t notice.
You are not wrong.
Hipster
Woohoo Wizards of the Woke...lol
I can't wait to see folks "fixing" the barbarian figure by altering the chest to match the original image. I guess next is gonna be a DEI Strahd.
Hasbro/WOTC's OGL debacle was the absolute worse!
There is no possible way any real people will tolerate that nonsense!
The weirdo customers and fans Hasbro/WOTC seems to want does not exist and the few that mght actually be in this plane of reality can't create anything.
My friends and I will be playing Basic Fantasy RPG, and using our old basic, 1E and 2E D&D books to supplement.
We want to have fun, not hear ‘the message’ and deal with Hasbroke and Wokesters on the Coast’s bs
What next is every franchise and characters go full modern disney and modern entertainment. It's will never end. Its bad & groomly future in modern entertainment.
You can make your own stuff and support others who do the same.
BLAME! Disney for this, they did the same thing to Star Wars and on another fact I can't seem to just post a related comment.I gotta reply to somebody to actually post my thoughts.So I don't know what's going on.Maybe youtube has muted me
These idiots in charge at Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro has seriously never heard of the 80-20 rule? The most devoted 20% of a fanbase brings in 80% of the profit. And yet, they'd rather burn more than 80% of their profits for less than 5% of the "modern audience" market that barely exists, if at all.
D&D has so much lore that it could have been a cash cow of movies, video games, toys, merch, etc. It's true that there a bunch of nerds who play tabletop but there are more people who enjoy D&D through other sources. I thought that Magic The Gathering was promoted while Dungeons and Dragons was put on the backburner.
It’s crazy that Cynthia works for Funko now
Sargon of Akkad is Warhammer canon and I love it
They really owned the chuds with that.
There are Nerds and there are Herds. The Herd moved into nerd culture for a brief period but now they're dispersing and nerd culture is still and will remain for the nerds.
The "dont be a yazi" was world o darkness, vampire.
They can do what they like. I noped out of D&D awhile ago. There is no reason to go back either.
Women and minorities were already players. They were at my table. We didn't say 'no, you can't play D&D, you're a girl.' They were just as welcome to play as anyone else. Out of the 3 of us that GM'd, 2 of use used our own made up worlds.
That article of clothing you refer to as a Kimono is probably a Yukata.
You know, you make a good point there. Back in earlier editions, a big focus was "buy this game world and set your adventures there", while in 5e it has totally been "buy these $50 modules and use them exclusively". Although again, I think a lot of this has to do with so many of the "new" playerbase lacking the intelligence and creativity to do it themselves, while my absolute favorite part of playing D&D in the 80s was creating my own world and planning out unique adventures for my friends' characters. Sure I bought some modules, but almost never actually ran them, rather they just served as potential ideas to pick and choose to include in my own games - a specific room or trap here, a map there, an NPC somewhere else.
I still have my Dungeon Masters Guide and Player's Handbook plus all sorts of stuff from the 1980's-90's, so it doesn't matter what they do. Stay analog and old school.
Hasbro is the poster child of corporate greed and WotC is a DEI dumpster fire. Larian Studio's never said it outright, but almost any fan of Baldur's Gate 3 and the series knows exactly why they chose to not continue on with the D&D titles.
I love how his only objection to wearing the dress is that he “doesn’t have the legs for it.”
Finally someone admits it’s not Matt Mercer’s fault.
That’s why I call it the Critical Role effect that’s the source of this problem NOT trying to copy Matt Mercer!
It is his fault, him and ahis cackling band of hyenas are why were are where we are when it comes to tabletop. He was a detriment to the hobby, not an asset.
those clothes were so bad. not even real everyday wear kinda stuff. i would rock a displacer beast or other monster if it was done right.
They look like the fashion out of Idiocracy.
It seems like every brand would rather lose money by ticking off their core customer bases this year. It's probably going to get really bad in June... We all know what they do every year during that month...
Once more I say, this is the iconic example of what happens when you don't gatekeep your hobby hard enough and the tourists invade.
time 16:20
Hasbro/WOTC wanted more D&D fans?
novels, comic books, video games, movies, TV shows, action figures.
Many people would enjoy these other media that would never play the RPG.
Of course, in this current day and age any stories would be utter garbage so there would be no point in producing it.
N..
The most recent D&D movie was not very good.
it was....ok.
Hasbro/WOTC and the producers completely destroyed any chance that movie had with their ridiculous comments and other things.
Bad movie was bad. Lots of 'modernity' injected into it, I can't stand that blackish-nerd-mage-kid either, we all know why he gets roles in things and its NOT because of his 'wide-acting-range'.
@@TheRealCaptainLavender Yes.
I was trying to be kind about the movie, but I shouldn't even bother.
This is like your little sister having a Little Tykes outdoor cottage you didn't get to play in. Your mom said you were too old for it. You decide to build a treehouse and you pour your sweat and effort into constructing an awesome hideaway in the trees with help from your pals. You and you friends have many grand adventures in it. Space pirates are particularly fun and tree branches cut to make room are awesome pretend swords.
Then, one not so fine day, your mom says your sister is allowed in it because she feels left out. At first it isn't so bad because you get to pretend her Little Tykes cottage is an enemy base and she is okay with being rescued as the princess.
Then it happens.
You have to take down the cool posters and put up her cutesy ones because ahe has to feel included and welcomed. You also have to stop the faux sword fights because little sis got a bruise once. Additionally, no more pretend gun fights because it is too violent.
Your mom also insists there be a vote on what to play. At least there are more votes for space pirates still.
Your sister then hears one of your friends said a naughty word (he was a pirate after all). Now he isn't allowed over. A few other guys decide not to play at your house anymore for fear they'll get in trouble for naughty words. You persevere with the remaining buddies. Pretend sword fights are still awesome and the rope that you have from treehouse to ground is fun to swing down during space raids.
Sis decides to invite her friends up. There is room now after all. Your mom tells you it should be fine since you have included your sister already. The rope has to go though; safety hazard afterall.
Pirate adventures start becoming teddy bear tea parties you can't say no to. There are now more votes for tea party than space pirates.
Your friends stop coming over completely. They didn't sign up for this.
Finally your mom tells you just to let sis have the tree house. After all she is getting much more use out of it.
Mom tells you to make another one or just grow up because you're getting too old for such silly things anyhow.
Also mom calls you a racist and tells you she hates you.
@Kneon
I'm not sure if you, or anyone else covering this realizes this, but Larry Elmore used to do a comic series called "Snarfquest" for "Dragon" Magazine. One of the main characters, and Snarf's usual comrade is Talaria "Telerie" Windyarm. She's your typically sexy female fantasy sword hero from the time, and she is often portrayed as wearing the same exact costume as the guy in that iconic piece of art which as we all know is ALSO a piece of artwork Larry did.
At any rate, the point I'm getting at, is that as I believe there was a LOT of Telerie art floating around for a long time, it wouldn't surprise me if some people genuinely think that was supposed to be a girl, that said it should be noted she is EXACTLY the kind of character that the "woke" do not want to promote, so it's not surprising they are making a mess out of this and trying to say use the art of the dude and say it's a girl.
Given that I hear a lot of the controversy revolves around this and "Snarfquest" isn't even exactly known to RPG gamers anymore, I do suggest anyone interested in the issue look up Telerie Windyarm as there is still a bit about her on the interwebs, including images of her in that specific costume. I think the issue is you have weirdos trying to cherry pick things to reinvent history, and missing the point that Telerie, and Snarfquest in general, was Larry Elmore satirizing D&D, and even his own extended body of work.
"Dragon" also ran strips like "What's New With Phil and Dixie" (Phil Foglio), "Yamara", and "Finneous Fingers, Fred, and Charlie", all of which were D&D parodies in comic strip form, some of which are massively politically incorrect according to present day. Most of them will make it clear that a lot of the tropes people claim were somehow "accepted as normal and just treated deadpan" were made fun of that far back, in fact if you do the research there was never a time they weren't. But the thing was people understood back then that D&D, and RPGs in general, were always incredibly campy, as was they material they drew from.
I LOVED Snarfquest. And Wormy too!
Flawed as Walt Disney was, I wish we didn't have to associate his name to the trash the corpos at his company have put out, but that's to be expected with name recognition and wokeness.
The attack wasn't to critical roll, critical roles' D&D supplements were sold THROUGH WotC the had agreements. The attack was against Matt Colville, look at the kickstarters for his books, and other companies like Goodman Games and Kobold Press.
Things started getting really bad in 2008.
Does anyone know what happened then?
Kneon says he doesn't blame Matt Mercer, but that MFer turned D&D into a road side tourist trap. As someone who was saying 30 years ago "save D&D, burn a Magic deck", I'll agree Hasbro is ultimately the most responsible, but Mercer gets plenty of blame.
Mercer gets blame for allowing his table to go full woke as CR progressed. The first campaign remains excellent, but when he started off the third campaign by describing an NPC's appearance as "non-binary" he lost me. How the f**k does someone look non-binary, and why does the sexuality of an NPC that you're meeting for the first time even matter?
For clarification the amount a DM spends vs a player: DMS will have 20+ books ($40 each, low average) and upwards of 500+ minis ($2 each, low average) that would be about $1,800 on low average. I can say personally I have significantly more than that. The average current player, the ones they cater to, have on average no books physical or digital, I'll give them the players to be kind and one other so it doesn't look so abysmal ($40 each, low average) and maybe 4 miniatures, one again being generous ($4 each, higher average considering dragon born miniatures). That would place the average player at $96. This is being generous, because what I see is I have all published books as of 2022 because I stopped buying them and upward to 2000 miniatures. The average player I dm for whether adventure league, private DND club (yup where I like we have a business that has rooms and set up for D&D,MTG, and Warhammer), and home games has a partial book purchase from d&d beyond if that and less than half have a miniature. The players from the private club will have maybe 2 books, but usually digital and about 4-10 minis, most of there spending is in dice like it's a crack addiction.
Nerds use to be outcast, now we are outcast but from our own hobbys
Glad I still have my Red Box from the early 80s. I have a t-shirt of it also. I always thought the warrior on the box art was the fighter illustrated in the books that came in the red box.
Ditto
Good thing about us older DnD fans, we realize that we can do whatever the hell we want with the game. We don't need to be catered to because we can make our adventure about whatever we want it to be.
I could improvise an entire game session with just the knowledge of games past. I don't need to buy their books.
Sooner or later, they will find out that "get woke, go broke" applies to everyone.
If we learned anything at all from Oprah Winfrey its that women are consumers, and getting women on board with "the current thing" almost assures at least a temporary hemorrhage of cash. I remember watching a documentary on something where the guy they were interviewing stated that if anyone could get Oprah to give away something on her show, the manufacturer should be prepared to run out of that thing. This is a big reason as to why we are seeing formerly niche stuff go "lifestyle". Marvel was successfully converted and that's why you see Marvel backpacks, plushies, pillows, blankets, bakeware, coffee mugs, etc. They converted it from a niche brand to get women to invest into it. Women are the big consumers from among the two genders, and once something becomes trendy or "in" they will voraciously consume to be part of the thing. It's literally what the entire advertising industry is built on. So now we are seeing other niche brands thinking they can make the jump, ie: D&D and Warhammer 40k. You can see D&D trying to make the conversion, but 40k hasn't made its move yet, likely because they are waiting for the Amazon series to drop, which will make it "the thing" for a while. The problem is that D&D you can kinda convert because you can turn adventuring into things like jackets and blankets and clothing. Warhammer, however? Not sure how you convert that, but if they throw some female Space Marines or Custodes in the show they will find a way to soften the edge enough to try and launch "lifestyle products".
Don't forget that part of the "dragon sized" price tag of the lego set is lego's absurd shareholder cut of 25%. Most corporations are 10% or less.
🎯 D&D cannot be monetized because it’s a game where players buy rule books (once) then play on their own, don’t need to constantly upgrade anything once they have the books. That said, making a new version of the fighter is NBD. D&D is for everyone. Each table is unique, which is one of the things that makes the game great.
I don't think the issue is putting DnD stuff on everything. I remember when Star Wars was on everything even before the prequals. Lunchboxes, toys, posters, shirts, etc. The issue is, they are changing everything about DnD (and Star Wars). You can't change what people liked about it and then try to sell merch. It doesn't work.
We're coming up on the moment where D&D fans will need to make a choice between 3 options.
1. Go along with whatever lame changes are proposed as the hobby becomes less and less popular.
2. Remember that 3.5 still exists, and can still be played between friends.
3. Just play any old version, or any other tabletop until WoTC has suffered their self-imposed fate.
How does hasbro not realize we dont need them? we dont need new products, all the different edition's rules are all online, everything they produce under the brand is no longer a unique (or even the best version of a) product. Nothing they are selling us is required for dnd.
I thought going full Disney meant that there was going to be a musical or something.