Jesus son of Pantera: Ancient Slander or Historical Probability?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2023
- Contrary to what is often asserted by scholars as well as general readers, the early traditions that Jesus had a biological father named "Pantera" has nothing to do with an assertion that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier. Further, the name Pantera was never said to be a pun on Parthenos--the Greek word for "virgin"--until it was suggested by a German scholar in the 19th century! No ancient writers who comment on the name "Yeshua bar Pantera" associates it with such a pun--they know the name as a real name from the family of Joseph and Mary. Furthermore, 1st century rabbis living in Sepphoris, just north of Nazareth, use the name in a descriptive way--not as slander at all--referring to Jesus of Nazareth. It was a REAL name, not a pun used in slander. In this interview with Neal Sendlank, host of @GnosticInformant I offer an overview of the Pantera traditions--what we know and don't know, including what I have discovered about the tombstone of a 1st century Roman soldier from Sidon found Bingerbrücke, Germany, on the Rhine river, in 1859.
For further in-depth reading see my book, The Jesus Dynasty, as well as these blog posts. The book is on sale now in paperback for the holidays and has a new epilogue bringing things up to date since it was first published in 2006.
www.amazon.com/Jesus-Dynasty-...
jamestabor.com/the-jesus-son-...
jamestabor.com/the-origin-of-...
jamestabor.com/?s=pantera
About Dr. Tabor: jamestabor.com/about
Academic Blog: jamestabor.com;
CZcams: / jamestaborvideos
Tabor Books:
www.amazon.com/James-D-Tabor/...
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Personal Blog: genesia.org
I love Neal's channel. ❤️ I love how excited he gets talking about Greco-Roman and Early Judaism and Early Christian culture.
Great discussion James! I really enjoy your commentary.
Thank you, Neal! Excellent Dr. Tabor!
Neal and you and Derek Lambert are great. Love all you guys work
A great discussion, Dr. Tabor. Very well presented.
Neal is great! Thanks Dr. Tabor for this amazing video!
I have thought this quite possible since I saw the plate of Panthera’s grave in Deismann’s ‘Licht vom Osten’.
Brilliant Dr. Tabor! Thank you
Thank you Professor! Smile! Your the best!
Tabor's range and depth of knowledge is always impressive.
Yes, but I still have a question. Jesus son of Pantera? Was Dimebag Darrell one of the Apostles? Sorry, couldn't help myself. I'm the prophesied return of the biblical prophet Elijah. You can keep speculating, hit and miss, but the answers to all major mysteries have been given through Yours Truly. Click and ye shall find...
@@tomrhodes1629 click what?
@@tomrhodes1629 i truly believe n feel jesus and dime bag Darrell are one of the same.. this why dime was killed... I wish i could have met him... I heard he was just like in the panter videos.. plus theres hidden biblical message in pantera songs...
Very much love this story. It feels right
Thank you Dr. Tabor for your presentation of the historical Jesus by independent sources! 👍
Historical or hysterical? Jesus son of Pantera? Was Dimebag Darrell one of the Apostles? Sorry, couldn't help myself. I'm the prophesied return of the biblical prophet Elijah. You can keep speculating, hit and miss, but the answers to all major mysteries have been given through Yours Truly. Click and ye shall find...
@@tomrhodes1629 OK give me more please
I thought Pantera was a heavy metal band.
@@70AD-user45 😂
@@tomrhodes1629
Elijah did return. The return of Elijah was John the Baptist.
John Marc Allegro refers to this name in his infamous book "The holy mushroom & the cross". Dionysus was often depicted as sitting on a panther. He is the god that emanated from the ingestion of the brown (very toxic) Amanita variant, which looks like a brown skin with white dots on it. The lore around magic mushrooms is much more ancient than christianity itself, and is littred with examples of gods & godesses (often twins) that were born out of a virgin impregnated by Zeus' flashing spirit (lightning). The oak was one of the sacred trees in antiquity, next to the ceder, birch and the spar, as these are trees hosting the Amanita mushroom.
I hope Mr. Tabor gets the time to read any of the books by Barbara Thiering. She was a DSS expert using Pesher.
I like the painting. Who did it?
If, at the time of his death, it was believed or rumored Jesus had a Roman father wouldn’t crucifixion be off the table as far as execution methods?
Who says the Roman soldier is Roman?
So his father wasn't Naghtious Maximus?
Most new testament scholars agree that the oldest Christian writings are the 7 undisputed letters of Paul (in around 50AD), followed by the anonymously written Gospel of Mark (around 70AD). Neither Paul nor Mark mentioned a supernatural virgin birth. Either they thought that it was irrelevant (after all virgin birth is extremely common), or (most likely) they never heard of it. The virgin birth "appeared " in the anonymously written Gospel of Matthew and Luke (around 80-90AD). All eyewitnesses, apostles and 1st generation followers of Christ were dead when those 2 gospels were written (so they couldn't contradict them). How convenient.....
Jeshu Ben Panthera (Jehoshua Ben Pandira). A holy man mentioned in the Jewish Talmud (120?-71? BCE). Helena P. BLAVATSKY mentions this personage several times in her writings and suggests that Jeschu ben Panthera is Jesus of Nazareth (CW IV:361), offering in evidence a genealogy by Epiphanius (fourth century):
Q document was Jesus minutes of Testimony from his court trial.
I would really like to hear it thoughts on this but I can't seem to catch a live stream so I can super chat.
Could this rumor have started because Jesus had a lighter completion like a Roman European and not look like the rest of his family?
Myriam and Joseph were genetically related. They were cousins. Marriage between relatives has been a wide-spread pratice among Semites. So both of them being related to Pentherah is quite plausible
And you know this how? Did you do a DNA test on them? Stop spreading your speculations as if they were facts.
Joseph was Myriam uncle. And Pentherah was an initiation name which came from Egypt.
Was Johan Maier the same as John Major, sometime supposed Prime minister of UK?, ;-)
Someone pointed out to me once that all first born children are virgin births
Makes sense if one defines "virgin" as a young woman who has not yet born a child.
I enjoy Mr. Tabor's presentations. In his learned and well-respected opinion, he narrows his opinion down to 2 options (an unknown father, and Pantera as being the father). I think there is a 3rd option that needs to be considered, that Jesus is the son of Joseph and Mary, based on his/Jesus being the "Prophet like unto Moses". This can mean many things, but, in regard to the topic, I think that Jesus like Moses, was conceived through the natural interaction between husband and wife, and born by the natural method.
Not only that, but I propose that, like Moses, Jesus wasn't the firstborn of Mary and Joseph, but rather he was the secondborn son. In the case of Moses, Aaron was the firstborn son and Moses the secondborn (in the manner of Cain/Abel, Ishmael/Issac, Esau/Jacob, etc.).
Next, in the same manner, in the famous "virgin (alma)" of Isa 7-8 passage, it shows the same (firstborn/secondborn) pattern. Isaiah and his wife (alma: young woman of marriageable age) who has a firstborn son (Shear-Jashub) conceives a second son (Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz).
In the case of Jesus, James was the firstborn son, and Jesus was the secondborn son. Joseph is the father....imho.
So what of the messenger Gabriel and how he "came in unto her"
The circumstantial evidence is very strong. However, the possibility exists that Miriam never actually had sexual relations with her friend Ebed who enlisted in the Roman army under the name of Abdes Pantera. Ebed thereby became persona non grata in the Jewish community and could not become engaged to Miriam. When Miram turned up in a family way society naturally assumed the worst. That is why her family pawned her off to a much older working man who had lost his wife. The fact that Jesus went out of his way to visit a certain home in Sidon seems to indicate that he believed that Ebed was his biological father. Prof. Tabor's observations on this subject are important.
To begin with you are saying then that Mary was a fornicator this would make her a sinner even in United States in the early 20th century young girls were put away for becoming pregnant out of wedlock you can just imagine how it must have been back in those days
The lineage of Jesus is from Mary and Mary was half of the tribe of Judah and half Levite and was transferred to Jesus and that is why he can fulfill the prophecies not only of being from the lineage of David but also a Priestly lineage
Jesus affirmed that he was the son of God in a conversation with Peter when he said man has not told you this but my father in Heaven
I am not going to believe that the Messiah is the the fruit of fornication and a liar and not the son of God because if so, you might as well throw out the entire Bible
This is nothing but another gospel to tickle the ears just like prophecy warned us about
actualy it is 'abdes Tiberius' , abdes pantera is a made up by . . . . ? ?
@@willempasterkamp862 Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera is the full name. Tiberius and Julius are the names of the Roman emperors which soldiers added to their own names. "Pantera" means panther, and was taken as a surname by soldiers. The only original was "Ebed" latinized to Abdes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Julius_Abdes_Pantera
@@jeffreyerwin3665 Really fascinating.
@@jeffreyerwin3665 abdes = prior, abbot = the assigned adjutant, vicaris because Germanicus was the assigned heir of Tiberius chosen by the divine Octavian himself. Therefor Germanicus and his offspring (the claudians/ clothi) were nazoreans aka nicolaitans. Pandere means to scatter. The scattered elects far off abroad are germanicus exiled sons at Pandateria (gadara dalmathua). Germanicus sons are the 3 little pigs and the big bad wolf is the possessed madman (lucius anneus seneca) living between the graves.
I love this man
the virgin birth narrative was probably created to counter jewish gossip about jesus being the son of a roman soldier pantera
Rani Cendi
No, God definitely has a son.
Proverbs 30:4
Psalm 2:7-12 --> Revelation 12:5, 19:15
@@johnmann8659
and yahweh is the son of el
@@ranilodicen4460 EL is ALLAH
the pander is depicted here : huqoq elephant mosaic (discovered in israel a decade ago) .
Thank you
Pandateria = island of the scattered elects far off abroad.
the homecoming off their remains (relics, saints, dioscuroi)
back to rome performed by their brother Gaius = merry christmas
I am going to have to go to bed so i will finish this video tomorrow .
You are a Gem
I was most impressed by Barbara Thiering’s book ‘Jesus the Man’. In it she answers the question of who was Jesus’ father. She refers to the trial of Jesus by Pontius Pilate. Pilate asks if Jesus is the king of the jews, and Jesus answers “for that purpose was I born.” That is a mysterious answer.
Then Pilate addresses the Jews protesting in the court yard and says “I find no fault in him”. The amazing thing about that statement is that claiming to be the king of the jews would be treason and result in an instant death sentence, unless that person was the oldest son, of the oldest son, of Herod theGreat. No one else fits the bill.
Herod’s son and heir was Antipater. He was held in Rome as a hostage, and was educated with Octavian and a group of princes from other provinces under Roman control. The princes all swore allegiance to Octavian, who later became emperor Augustus. In return Augustus promised to confirm them all in their kingdoms. Antipater was later called back to Palestine by Herod because his second wife had convinced him that Antipater was betraying him so Herod had Antipater murdered.
So back to the trial of Jesus, there was only one person on the planet who could say to Pilate, “for that purpose was I born”, and that was the oldest son of Antipater.
Thiering then goes on to say that Antipater knew his time was short and married a temple virgin named Mary who was the ward of an older man named Joseph. He married her so that the next king of the jews would be a descendent of David, which would make him a legitimate jewish king for the first time in centuries, and that would enable the jews to be reconciled to the Roman conquest. The whole project was a multigenerational plan to prevent the Romans from annihilating the jews, which failed because the jews failed to rally around the new messiah.
Sounds like Barbara created her own mythology.
I like the idea that Pantera and Mary were married, all legit, and when joined the Army or was enslaved or was drafted, he divorced her, not even realizing she was pregnant
Amazing how people prefer fables to the truth.
@@fredgillespie5855Not sure what you mean.
how do you know truth? from changed bible?@@fredgillespie5855
How old was Mary when she gave birth to Jesus and wasn't she married to Joseph?How and why was she a Virgini?
Yes. And saying Joseph "discovered" that she was pregnant is normal. Every betrothed or husband eventually discover his 'wife ' to be pregnant... Not necessary someone else involved😮
1:05:XX you refer to Ballthasar.
Personally i think mary was a naughty jewish girl who fell for "Pantera's"charm!This is fascinating!
I have recently learned that all the way up to the 4th century the fathers of Christianity acknowleged that Jesus had the surname of Pantera. These fathers attempted to pass off that anomaly as being derived from some relative who had that name.
pandere (verb, latin) = to scatter, lay astray (fig.)
Could have let your guest speak, or atleast entertained a little dialogue. Good material, but you could have done this with one face in the camera.
nobody thought that might possibly start out as a literary pun or an in-joke? ;) all possibilities are possible in history imo..
You should mention his cousin...John Baptist they came from pious liniage
Mary was a Kohen too.
That when Mary was born she was dismayed as she was a girl but she knew of her solum oath to God ..and still put her in care of the Temple
The Angle announced to this innocent young lady who was perfectly innocent that she is still chaste and blessed ...
Jesus birth certificate with Joseph named as father acquired in Bethlehem. Surname: Justus
Like they love to say .for fulfill scriptures.
Kinda addsto the mythology of the heavy metal band named Pantera !
Hello, Germanicus died (poisoned) in Sidon. Germanicus (Kamtza) aka Zacharias berachai
Jesus, John, James the Just and Paul were all "marginal Jews" matter who their parents were.
'Walk on Home boy' 😂
We're have been mislead/lied to. We all have the opportunity of Freewill and the truth ❣️
Infinite blessings to all😊
God bless you
Jesus performed no miracles, no resurrections, prophesied nothing, no revelations, not even rapture, But he could read and write & the Bible holds the receipts.
I find it odd that our trusted Christian church leaders,both true blue & lipstick varieties, are quick to assert Christ’s illiteracy while attributing all sorts of magical nonsense to his name. How you gonna elevate this guy to god-tier status, yet preach he can’t read? Of course God reads, reads great!writes great too! Jesus according to Christians is the real deal, the whole Enchilda, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha & the Omega, yet also according to them he can’t write Alpha or Omega. That’s crazy thinking, blasphemy even, all the best stuff in the Bible was written by Jesus.
Receipts?
Jesus Christ (Didymus Judas Thomas) authored The Gospel of Thomas.
Read here the opening lines of The Gospel of Thomas (Leloup Translation)…
“These are the words of the Secret. They were revealed by the Living Yeshua. Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down.”
Note the unusual use of the word “revealed” here in place of common language you’ll find of “said/spoken”.
The unusual doubling of the Twin generic descriptor, sandwiching the common Judas name.
Didymus = Twin (Greek)
Judas = Name
Thomas = Twin (Aramaic)
Judas, according to the Bible, was a brother & devoted servant of Jesus Christ (Mark 6:3; Matt 13:55; Jude 1). His twin (Acts of Thomas). The spiritual (divine) Christ paired to the physical (human) Judas. Jesus WAS Judas. In the Gospel of Thomas there were no miracles, no resurrections. Jesus predicted no future events, he was no prophet, no revelations or rapture. All prophesy attributed (falsely) to Jesus was culled from the Hebrew OT and retrofitted as Roman propaganda to co-opt, conflate & corrupt Judaism w/ the upstart Jesus’ movement, neatly consolidating control of both under Rome, effectively killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
So how then did Jesus know Judas would betray him? Simple, he (Jesus/Judas) turned himself in & cut a deal with Pilate to fake crucifixion avoiding further unrest in the Jewish population (exactly what you would hope for & expect from a Jesus). The deal was after the crucifix fake-out Jesus would bounce & so he did becoming St.Thomas/St.Jude traveling far & wide, converting about a billion more ppl to Christianity before dying in his 100s.
A few additional odds & ends that support this info above (greatly abridged for time).
1. NT Jude 1:1 identifying Judas as a brother to James but a “servant” of Jesus.
2. The apocryphal Gospel of Barnabas (apostle of Jesus), Ch. 216 - Judas takes on appearance of Jesus, later crucified in Jesus’ place.
3. St. Jude is most often depicted wearing a giant medallion around his neck with the life-sized head of Jesus on it, that’s 2000 yrs before modern rappers made this a thing & fashionable. They literally got Jude walking around, spreading Christ’s word “wearing the face of Jesus”. The truth hidden in plain sight.
So basically, there is more archeological evidence for Jesus father, Pantera, than there is for Jesus himself?
Perhaps researching Palmyra and the surname Palmer ....
Might be helpful.....
It's just a hunch...
The resurrection means that Jesus was the most righteous, so that kind of status needs a unique origin story and you can't get much more unique than a virgin birth.
Inside or outside of Temple and then call her a prostitute?
Hi James !
is there any King born not the same as all men? not me, Solomon said this !
Joseph is the father of jesus, in the flesh !
cherebyah
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me. Psalm 51.5 or 51.7 or 50.7
History repeats itself! Buckle up!
What about the guy bit by the snake
And in Quran it is stipulated that Mary's mother devoted what was in her womb to the order in the Temple as devoted to God ..in resecpt of it
A Black/Blue panthernon red tong golden fangs sits at my doors its was my first belt buckles. Lashing sraps holds up pants tongalisarice.
This interview is a Vulgar Display of Awesome.
ESSENTIAL PROBLEM IDENTIFIED.
HISTORY OF JESUS CANNOT BE RECONCILED WITH THEOLOGICAL TALES OF JESUS.
I always wondered why we get Joseph's lineage for Jesus if he is not the father then Mary's lineage should be given.
Or Joseph had a cousin who is still an offshoot of the davidic line, no?
@theredeemerin in jewish law, if the father, even if he is a jew, impregnates a jewish woman and isn't married to her, his heritage isn't passed to the son or daughter. So if a cohen (priest) impregnates a jewish woman and isn't married to her, the son isn't a priest. Any lineage, even Davidic would not be passed down. The offspring would be considered regular regular jews
So Jesus not born of Virgin ?
It's not possible.
He was born of a woman that was a virgin before she was begotten with child. I would assume that it would be like saying, my virgin wife is pregnant with our son. Meaning she was a virgin before the wedding night, marriage was consecrated, and she fell pregnant from that night. Basically c in our modern vernacular, Joseph was bragging that his swimmers were so powerful that he knocked Mary up on the first try! Lol! People did use Turkey blasters in Victorian times to impregnate a woman with seed so she could get pregnant if the husband was now sterile or unable to perform the act due to sickness. Those royals were always doing scandalous things in order to have a royal male heir. If they had a daughter, she was usually betrothed to a cousin in order to keep the family money in the family. Husband had to pay the bride price before marrying in some monarchies. In others, the woman’s family has to pay the dowry to the husband to hold for the wife incase the marriage didn’t workout. If there was a divorce, the woman’s dower was returned to her.
But do they read the true scriptures, the 1001 Arabian Nights?
1 Corinthians 15:14. That's why...it's the whole ball of wax...and the virgin birth fulfills the old testatment...without your belief in vain
Bingo Dr. Tabor. Is not his life more important for what he did with his life, rather than the propositions of both his virgin birth and resurrection.
His life is important but his resurrection eclipses even that.
@@gaiusoctavius5935 of course it doesn't. The most important person that ever lived and 18 years is blank because it does not suit us Christians to hear it
@@gaiusoctavius5935 nothing eclipses anything. We need to hear the whole before we can decide
@@Isaac5123 We don't have to make up wild speculations as to what Jesus was doing for 18 years he was a carpenter.
@@Isaac5123 I beg to differ Jesus taught many great things but his resurrection is the cornerstone of everything that is the Christian Faith.
Off subject but did Hebrews name their women that were violated by the Romans Mary as a defiant name and to let the male Hebrews know the females situation? And you wont believe this one but in the second part of the temple (1st temple) had the three names of each tribes of Israel on each wall. The priest would take a letter out of ever name in order around the room before they went into the holy of holy and those letters would be the word for the ALMIGHTYS NAME. You wont believe me if i told you how i know this.
Are you a Kohen too?
Any chance Pilate tried to get Yeshu ben Panthera out of crucifixion because he was a *Roman citizen?* That he wanted to send him to Caesar so that the Senate in Rome would proclaim him King of the Jews as he said he was? And as God proclaimed him to be at his baptism by John the Baptist? After all, supreme executive power under the Romans derived from a mandate from the Senate, not from some "farcical aquatic ceremony"!
What about no matter what She is still chaste and fruit of her womb
Both sides of this family were of pious liniage
50:28 How can you have a Roman name in the Levite lineage from Nathan? That is so wrong putting Panthera's name in Joachim and Anne's lineage. Beam me up Scotty!
It happened among Hellenistic Jews
It’s more like part of the truth, that the writers of history used to obfuscate the direct role of the Roman empire, had in the creation of what we call Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.
And they’re desperate attempt to try to take biblical/religious mythology. That was never meant to tell direct history, and to use it as empirical truths of the causation of events, these writers desperately search for signs of the existence of Christ. They only found endless contradictions and downright falsification of the Bible stories . Worst, they saw directly from the wreckers of the Romans themselves of how they invented the whole thing as a part of their infatuation of ancient Egyptian mysticism that they used to create an imperial theocracy we today call the Catholic Church. Not only did Rome create the religion, they created the figure we today called Jesus Christ. The fact of the matter is that ancient people did not care about that type of exactness. But, by the time the religion started to spread for 1000 years, mainly through the same sort of spread that our modern term “democracy“ spreads, detractors Looked at everything in disbelief. Enter the inventors of history.
What you have since the playwright Simon bar Isaac , the author, who conceptualized the Pentateuch during his life between 1040 ACE and 1105 ACE, is an attempt to take any writings of the three major western religions, created by Rome and to literally project onto the past, both real or imagined, literal names, events, and details that support religious literature mythology. Since we are dealing with human beings, many of which will convince themselves that they are correct, we have an entire history of scholarship invented, especially since the beginning of the age of discovery that occurred in 50 years after the commission work of the Novuus Instrumentum, and a zeal to not only convert the world into Christianity, but to literally rewrite history and science to prove it. The truth of the matter, notwithstanding.
Panthera is a Roman name and it is somewhat a nickname for an aldulterer or womaniser,hence the Panther hunter epithet. Just as the name Silvanus was for someone who dealt in Silver and Quintus for a fifth born.This was common practice in Rome. There is no Jewish name Panthera.
Oxford Latin dictionary: page 378
panther noun = Panthera - feminine.
So it's a feminine Latin noun.
Can't you guys tell even by it's morphology that it's Latin.52:31
This is not scholarship!
THE TRUTH SHALL FIND YOU!!!
Isn’t this what the fallen angels did? they left their appointed sphere and defiled themselves with flesh?
For me one thing is certain, since Jesus was a rabbi, his father must have been a rabbi as well. Its the law of generational priesthood. If Pantera was viewed as a Roman, it is probable the he was a jew, a son of a jewish priest that might have been living in Rome, become a roman soldier and later returned to Israel as a pious jew.
Well, it could be argued that Jesus' father was a Rabbi (Teacher) but his first pupil, Adam, rejected His teaching. Then He tried teaching a nation (Israel) and they rejected His teachings too. Most people do and that is why the world is in a mess.
@@fredgillespie5855 Adam who?😳
@@fartamayo - Eve's husband.
@@fredgillespie5855 😅🤣😂
Rabbis aren't Kohen and it's not hereditary
I must say that in line with basically all serious historians and NT scholars I find this story completely unconvincing. We basically have a passage from an anti-Christian polemic from the late second century and an anti-Christian Rabbinic story that is no earlier than the 4th century. Even the earliest of these two is some 150 years after the event. What makes us so sure that it contains any original traditions about Jesus at all? This late legendary material is basically the opposite of what you'd expect from early authentic traditions about Jesus. So I find that highly unlikely.
And then we have some random Roman guy named Pantera (a common name at the time) that we cannot connect to Mary, and moreover cannot even place in galilee with any certainty. In my view (and that of most historians) this basically amounts to nothing at all. So the sum total of the evidence is basically some late and highly legendary traditions. Not very convincing.
Concerning what Mary conceived or anyone's hand in it
Pantera is from Cleopatra
But one things for certain Jeasus p b u h kicked there ass in precients of Temple
Zecheriah chapter 12. Written 500 years before Jesus was born. The Lord prophesied he would be pierced after the cross as Jesus ❗
Zecheriah chapter 12:10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child,
You are lost in translation. Failure to actually translate but other verses corrupted translation. Take Isaiah 9 verse 6 has nothing to do with Yeshua
@@Isaac5123 I know this site regularly distorts the Lord's word
@@turnfrmsinorhell_jesus you know nothing mate
Fiery Flames your quoting Zechariah 12:10 It's nothing to do with Jesus but it is God talking....and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain. This chapter is about annihilating all the nation's that come upon Jerusalem. 12:7-11.
Why do you Christians keep altering the Tanakh? You even take Malachi out of the NEVI'IM ( The Prophets) and put it in KETHUVIM ( the writings) to suit your own Christology so as the last book it justifies Mathew,the first book of the NT. Who is the father of lies now, the synagogue if Satan?
Matthew 18:
6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.(Jesus)
The gravestone of Abdes Pantera the seducer, and the connection with the Talmudic stories, is old news. Abdes also used the joke name “Naughtius Maximus” when seducing Jewish girls.
The statue is missing head... I mean the head of Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera.
i hate when interveiwers constantly talk and interupt
Yes. Why should there not be a divine a d a biological father ?
The oldest sources that mention "Yeshu Ben Pandera" are Tosefta (200 CE) and Babylonian Talmud (500 CE), so I would categorize both as unreliable, confused, and slanderous if "Ben Pandera" indeed relates to the man we call "Jesus" today, which is not at all obvious. Generally, anything written in Talmud and Tosefta about the times of King Herod and some decades after should be taken with a grain of salt. The writers weren't there, they weren't historians, their comments on Christianity repeated baseless bazaar gossip and above all were tainted with jaundice of defeated and uprooted people.
Tosefta was written by hiyya bar Abba in the land of Israel. He was not exiled so we need to assume he knew many things so we shouldn't discount it completely
@@airpaintpellet Hiya bar Abba was an editor of the text, the task he worked on with his student. The text is believed to be a compendium of various loose stories that didn't make it into Mishnah. It's not considered "authoritative."
FACTUAL HISTORY!!!!! I KNEW THIS BEFORE I WAS FORCED TO GO TO CHURCH!!! AND WHY I HAVE NEVER LIKE RELIGION NOR PEOPLE THAT TAKE THE BIBLS LITERALLY!!!
Pa-Neter-Ra means My God Ra.
R
How could HaShem justify this??
We also know there was a Talmud .from the area of Bal worship....brought back to Jurusalum....and it's demonic scriptures which adopted this in captivity...from were they were taken and converted to
Moar!!!
The virgin daughter of Zion is not a woman named Mary. The gospels were allegory that was later literalized by Rome.
All who are chosen anointed ones are conceived by the Fathers incorruptible seed (I peter 1:3, i peter 1:23, James 1:18, Rev. 21:7). We grow are birthed into a new creation, a new Adam. This is the miracle birth of the gentile virgin daughter of Zion. It has nothing to do with a woman named Mary. The gospels are spiritual allegory.
“Father unknown” - thou shalt not dox God.
Well you don't know either
I think it would be a very fascinating novel if someone decided to write the story of the Damascene auxiliary archer named Pantera! One of those guys depicted on Trajan's Column, serving on the cold and foggy Germanic Limes, forty years of service in those cursed, dark, cold barbaric lands to get your damn citizenship! Did he still think about the little girl named Mary .. what did he know about his son and his life?
After having watched all the Dr. Tabor videos on this subject I am convinced that combined they must represent his most gallant attempt yet at making a square peg fit into a round hole. The whole story is pinned on a supposed follower of Jesus some 70+ years after Jesus' crucifixion, who instead of identifying with Jesus of Nazareth, performs healing acts in the name of one Jesus son of Pantera.
Being limited by two references to this name from the late 1st, early 2nd century, Dr. Tabor gives no explanation why the name itself had no association to Jesus throughout his lifetime, but instead goes on to weave an incredible story of romance and intrigue with nothing more than a broken shoe string and a used piece of chewing gum.
If the fact that Jesus himself never used the name Pantera holds no importance, then what gives someones use of a name on his behalf without consent any credibility? Is there a way to explain why this might have ever been done in the first place?
Well the most obvious reason would be to discredit Jesus and his teachings in the face of what was a growing Christian movement.
Another good reason could be to avoid persecution as a follower of the crucified Jesus. Using religion as a seat of power was well known in that time, and in fact Dr. Tabor himself refers to the forces responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus as mafia-like. One has to look no further than the death of James to understand why. And the text is not a nod of approval to early Christianity as Dr. Tabor believes, but rather an example of 2nd century Rabbinic teachings warning of any association to Jesus and Christianity.
We will likely never know the real reason for the late origins of this gossip like story, but one thing we can say for certain is that Jesus was accused and mocked with a crown of thorns and the title "KING OF THE JEWS" by Pontius Pilote himself for being a messiah, not the bastard child of the Galilee.
If this story had any basis in reality then either the Sanhedrin, or the Roman Governorship itself would have made it a point to be mocked by on the day of his trial. We can say with no uncertain terms that at the time of Jesus' conviction, there was no story, or even the use of such a name associated with Jesus.
God definitely has a Son.
Proverbs 30:4
Psalm 2:7-12
Hosea 11:1 (DRB) As the morning passeth, so hath the king of Israel passed away. Because Israel was a child, and I loved him: and I called my son out of Egypt.
To provide perspective, Hosea predicted a coming Messiah, but the reference you are using for both Proverbs 30:4 and Psalms 2: 7-12 are literally over 1500 years before the time of Jesus. So the above Scriptures you use, you take out of context. The person who is referred to is Moses. Jewish belief is codified by the accounts attributed to Moses. Jesus quotes Moses: without the TaNaKa, Jesus would not exist as a scholar and reformer. It is only in this context that his comments on faith and live life have relevance.
@@clarice1001nights
God’s son rules the nations with a Rod of iron.
Psalm 2:8-9 -> Revelation 12:5, 19:15
Israel is oppressed by the nations (Judges 10:12, Zechariah 14:1-3, Joel 3:1-12, 1 Samuel 12:8, Isaiah 19:20).
God also calls Israel his spouse (Jeremiah 31:32, Hosea 2:19-20, Isaiah 54:5-8).
Repeating your belief doesn't make it so. It is your interpretation. I believe what Jesus said is enough. I will not use Revelation to prove a single thing about Jesus. That is like taking Falkner to prove Abraham Lincoln. Do you realize how many Protestant systems of belief were formed in the 1800s? Sixtyseven in the United States alone.
The stories called the Gospels are happening in the tumult of the loss of a Temple, built once and then again that enshrined a method of faith. The Galilean and his cousin, tweaked the practice and revealed the power of faith.
Witness Jesus own words when he says he came for Jewish believers Matthew 15:25-28. Dogs are not koscher and the referral is to the Syrian/Greek non-jew being unclean. She took him down to size for being elitest. It is the only time he stood down. This is the basis of his words not others. She is wise and he heals her child because of her wisdom in Jesus. He is alive. There is no mention of his birth or his death..
Matthew 15:25-28.
The woman came and knelt before Him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” You are wise. Your child will be healed.
Why make it all so complicated? To be in Jesus mind one must think like he did, not buy every human interpretation we are ever told. Simple. Jesus said nobody needs a Rabbi...our Rabbi is YHVH.
That is simple.
@@clarice1001nights
Well we know a New Covenant was prophesied to have been given (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
This New Covenant would have come at some point after Judah returned from Babylon (Jeremiah 50:1-5).
The New Covenant would have also provided atonement for Israel’s sins (Ezekiel 16:59-63) after the Old Covenant was broken (Deuteronomy 31:16, Jeremiah 11:10, Hosea 8:1).
What began the New Covenant and provided atonement for Israel’s sins if Jesus did not?
@@clarice1001nights Zecheriah chapter 12. Written 500 years before Jesus was born. The Lord prophesied he would be pierced after the cross as Jesus.
Jochanan ben Zakkai = John son of Zeke
The punishment for aldultery in ancient Israel for a Levite was death.
Leviticus 20:10