Army Weapons vs. Navy Weapons
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
- Retired Army Ranger Dave and retired Navy SEAL Dorr discuss the similarities and differences between the weapons used by Army Rangers and the SEAL Teams.
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Interesting fact: The military refused to use berrettas updated locking block. They would not accept any changes to the design. Berretta came out with it pretty quickly in its service life but could not get the military to adopt it. The new locking block took its service life from 4-5k rounds to something crazy like 40k. Govt makes amazing decisions as we all know.
In the 80, army adopted Berettas and navy said nah we want Sig.
Now the army adopts a Sig and navy says nah we want glock.
Well to be fair they chose the beretta over the Sig 226 to save a few bucks so I suspect again it was cost. Also pistols haven’t been primary offensive weapons since WW1 so it’s not a priority to spend money on naturally.
Knowing how the DOD procurement system works, especially on the big Army side, “the contract” for the M9 said it must be “X,Y & Z as per the terms of the contract”.
Deviations are a violation of the terms of the contract. Rolling charges aren’t allowed without going through a formal procurement process and probably a new “M” designation.
It seems strange now, but a lot of the fast acquisition and COTS programs for the rapid deployment of equipment came about in the early to mid 2000’s.
In the 1980’s, making changes to the “new” M9 would have been the bureaucratic equivalent of a moon shot.
The Navy SEAL command staff knew this and just walked away from the M9.
@@manofthepeople2165regular navy still uses Berettas
Tier 1 units still seems to favor the 10.5 barrels, CAG has been spotted very recently with custom built 10.5" gen 3 MCX rifles, Dam Neck runs Noveske 10.5" rifles in 5.56, and a 10.5" 300blk for what I believe recce purposes. USASOC "tier 2" has went 11.5" with the geissele urgi.
Seals still seem to run 10.3 Mk18s, they have also been spotted with 14.5 geissele "recce" urgis.
Just some new info for you dudes. And yes. I am a nerd.
When I took the Beretta Armor course back in 2005. The Beretta instructor told us the story of Seals testing out the Beretta and making the slide break. Beretta found that the SEALs were firing prof load ammo in the gun not ammo at saami spec. which the slide would of not have split. Beretta corrected the problem, Seals were not interested in it.
I saw an article back then where an enclosed slide was developed for the SEALs, but obviously did not impress.
Steve Holland 5th Group legend developed the MK12 & 6.8spc., for that DMR option, also when the mags got squared away onSR-25(Mk11) the M110 Sass came after...I believe
This was a really enjoyable conversation--thanks for sharing it!
We love hearing your guys experiences!
The M9 slides coming off was an ammo issue not with the gun. Berreta ended up suing the DOD for deformation. Winchester I believe also got sued because it was an issue with their ammo specifically
The DoD deformed Baretta? How was it shaped after that? 😆
*defamation - There, fixed it for ya.
Way back in ‘02 I was an MP on our post’s SRT. Because of a lack of funding and gear we had to often beg, borrow and steal equipment or even range time to get the things we needed. We didn’t have any up armored capability at the time so we made a deal with one of our artillery battalions to get access to a couple of their M1114 HMMWV’s and in return we would run their pistol qualification courses for officers and SNCO’s. Almost all these guys were Ranger qualified, 2 of them had Scrolls on their right shoulder, absolutely none of them could hit the broadside of a barn with an M9! We had installed the LaserMax internal lasers on ours handed them out pistols. That helped but it was still like pulling teeth.
Great conversation!
Great discussion
6:20 the Mp5 still ran but had a bulged barrel from the pushing the squib on through. It happened to me with a Hk91 once.
Solid work fellas
Appreciate you touching on the 300blk Rattler
The 40mm I know is the blooper, the M79. I REALLY loved the HE and the willy P. Smoke was useful as well.
Ever used the WP for something else than cover?
Well occasionally you need to mark enemy combatants with WP smoke rounds for location or for cover... And sometimes it just happens to be extremely accurate marking 😇
great video! I would like to know about the kind of sniper rifles with army , seal and marines
Great discussion! How about Piston Gun Vs. GI? Any thoughts? Pros and cons of each? From an operator's perspective.
We didn’t run a ‘gun crew’ for a while. I spent time in the gun group of the section and one of us ran a 7.62 belt fed MAG58/240 with all the ammo and another ran the SAW/249 then you’d have the section 2IC running his individual weapon for the 3 man gun group in a section. I carried the 7.62 belt felt for a while being the better in the section carrying heavy weight on patrol. It was heavy, I never got to use the 7.62 belt fed over there though. Obviously things evolved over time though.
Neat :)
NV vs thermals; which do you prefer on your weapon? Helmet?
Thanks Dave and Dorr! :) :us
Thanks for everything...🇺🇸
I enjoy these videos on the systems. Would you consider doing another separate video on the AR as Dave mentioned?
Also, I will have to look up some of the stuff that was mentioned because I don’t know what a lot of the verbiage of quite a few systems , like Kurt and sd... did I spell that correctly?. It’s all very interesting and informative.
Kurs means short in German. The SD variant of the MP5 had an integrated suppressor. Thx for posting.
Kurt, Kurs etc yes just means short. Regular MP5 vs MP5K, the K is shorter.
Please do an AR video. I love hearing your stories!
Fun video
Cool
Dave is the first person I've heard use a phrase I've used for years "the original point and click interface" 😂
Dor is a walking hardware encyclopedia. I didn't even know more than half of what he said! lol Coming from another retired navy.
It sounds like it boils down that the best weapon is dependent on the operation and personal preference. When you have a range of pistols, to SMG, to carbine to main battle rifle and then sniper rifles you have a lot of great choices and it depends on two things. The operation and your ability with the weapon best suited for that operation. An example is if you are doing a building sweep a pistol, SMG, or carbine might be the best choice of the operation. However, if you shoot better with a carbine than an SMG in that operation you should use the carbine. I don't think a gun utopia exist yet....except in Coch safe. Great conversation.
🤣 The MP7 Crowd is gonna have a damn stroke! 😂🤣😂🤣
I personally never understood the 4.6mm & 5.7mm nut hugging but that is whats cool, folks can have a different opinions and if you like that Cartridge that is fine, I just don't get it.
Do the M4 video!
German Desert Eagles ... haha :D best regardes from Germany , thanks for these informativ video guys. God bless you
10:41 If you want to know how a pipe hitter says “head shot”…
Dorrs less lethal is a pistol whip!!!! That would be a great T-Shirt
Regular Navy still used berettas. Pretty sure there’s some ratty clunky ships out there that still do. Could be a budget thing procrastinating or something idk.
Captains Choice... by Captain i mean FULL BIRD or Better
on my boat the Captain had a choice of M14 or M16 so the crew qualified on both ... shooting those two platforms on the same day back to back was a TON of fun... the Captain chose the M16 "It wont shoot thru the bulkheads" on a SUBMARINE! if we have Enemy Combatants IN the sub we fucked anyway!
4:21 Why would the Mk-48 not be like a 240 in regards to reach, don't they both use 7.62 NATO? Does the difference in barrel length account for that much when the 48 is already about 20 inches vs the 240's ~25
It does not have the sustainment rate of the 240. They heat up much faster and do not have as tight of a beaten zone.
@@panzer6tigerHe says the difference was the "ammo". He must be thinking of the 46.
@@panzer6tigerAnd that's due to a lighter receiver.
You could say that because the M249 and MK 46 had more favorable handling charecteristics in combat in situations where greater mobility of firepower made a diffrence, the Mk 48 exists to see if they could getaway with using a 7.62 NATO version of the SAW. Its sucsesses and shortcomings may very well justify the need for the XM250 in 6.8mm.
The MK-11 is the SR-25 also KAC, finicky at first, but iron out in time early GWOT, . the M110sass, came later, Watch Tactical Rifleman 5th Group,legend Karl Erickson, he's the SME on subject... SF dude needed on channel badly
Good one guys. Having just been a regular Marine I never got to play with all the cool toys you all did. M16A2 and M9 for 20 years and some change for me . I had fam. Fired a Mossberg 590 for Security Duty and thats it. I went to Iraq in 2003 with an M9 and a M16A2. The Benelli M4 was brand new then. The first one I saw was on the USS Boxer on the way over. I got to shoot it off the flight deck. Thought I wanted to take it into Iraq. Glad I didn't get the opportunity. LOL. I never liked the M16A2. Probably because all the ones I shot were old wore out Colts. I never thought Id ever buy an AR! Now I have 3. The 16 inch barrel with collapsible stock feels tiny to me. I love the AR platform now.
Same here. The A2 was my primary and then later had a 203 added. Got out in 92 and didn't purchase an AR until 2007. 16 inch, collapsing stock felt like a toy. Have fallen into a lustful affair with 16 inch ARs since. 😆
Do the AR video
Best ak47 ammo? Is tulammo any good for ak47?
Just depends what you're doing.
Aks are designed for steel case ammo, but I did use some Lapua or Tula brass yrs. ago that was good
Yeah it's decent ammo, I've never had any problems using it.
I will kindly request you use more English words in a sentence.
Are you asking what is the best AK ammo to use? That depends on what you want to use the ammo for.
What is the job you are doing with your AK and what is your budget?
Make these types of videos a minimum of an hour long please
Wow my non-lethal is a pistol whip
German desert eagle and mp5 weigh nearly the same suppressed
Noice, why not both & why reupload? 🤔
The previous upload was accidentally cut off at 9:50. This is the full length video.
@@eddietat95oh ok 👌
"WTF is a gun crew?" - Dorr (probably)
Had more problems with 1 glock as with 2 m9. One has 10k the other 30k rounds. Not 1 single stoppage or breakage.
Any reason why the recce SEALs use the suppressed HK45 (Mk.24) in addition to their Glocks while the recce Rangers don't have a .45 anymore? Replaced by suppressed carbines?
WET WORK vs COMBAT
Do people realize that Ranger Regiment is the least “special” of the special ops? That’s not to say they aren’t amazing at what they do. But they’re “elite” infantry. They’re the best of the infantry, but they’re still infantry. The similarities between them and than conventional infantry is more than the same job code. The weapons, SOPs, organizational structure is nearly identical. Every time Dave talks I’m like yeah, that sounds familiar
The 75th did more work in the later years of the GWOT than the SEAL teams and SF groups combined. When SEALs were busting killing women getting water in Syria and SF was busy getting kille in broad daylight in Africa the 75th was supporting JSOC 24/7
@@AtomicCheesegodkilling women?
I’d say infantry is definitely on par with pro NBA or NFL players, in terms of physical prowess. The basics you learn in the infantry, build the foundation that the specialised units build upon. It’s not uncommon for infantry units to work with S.F.
CZcams unsubscribed me from this channel not sure why
The obvious answer is the clapped out m16a4 the Corps gave me
Al gores rhythm
Always remember your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. End of discussion.
The man is the weapon, how that man is organized is how he is used. The difference between team and regiment becomes a question of capabilities and expectations.
Very deep. This is about weapon "systems", the tools.
When you say ‘organised’: as in ‘equipped’? I’m not military or vet, just genuinely interested. And what you say seems to make sense, with greatest respect. Thanks in advance.
I think it has to do with their delivery
Weird
Dave is still built like a ranger lol
Best gun for defense in case of a terrorist invasion?
M242 Bushmaster
R2D2 - the Vulcan Phalanx CIWS.
The one you have in your hands
M109 Israelibuster
A nuke
The SCAR is not the "same operating system" as an MG, unless all you know is the AR-15 with the Stoner gas system. Scar is just an AR-18 derivative like everything else that isn't based on the AR-15 or AK. Not should you have to douse it in lube to make it work. That's a sign of deeper issues.
Hey Skep,
The SCAR and MK 46/48 have a very similar bolt carrier group assembly. We were told by FN the SCAR is a “wet” operating system. Guys didn’t know this at first so they were barley lubing them. Which led to failures in combat. Thx for posting