Detecting A PATTERN: Hazbin Hotel Review Episodes 5-6
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- čas přidán 25. 01. 2024
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this is a series that i wish had "filler" episodes. i want to see more of the characters interacting and building their dynamic than the actual story at this point. it's just TOO rushed
I feel like this has similar issues to Voltron season 7 or One Punch Man s2 too many characters, very little runtime
I hope that season 2 has more episodes
yeah, it really feels as if they had a bullet point list of what needed to be done, and kept to it with no gaps in between to flesh out the story.
EXACTLY This show definitely needed more episodes because this is ridiculous. I can’t say I’m not enjoying the show, but I’m seriously failing at feeling anything during these huge moments.
One filler episode can happen after episode 4 and be focused on Angel struggling to get over his self-destructive coping mechanisms, with Husker trying to convince him to stop taking drugs and Angel out of anger call Husk a hypocrite since he himself cannot stop his alcoholism; and this can be the moment Angel learns to apologise. It's all to show how his path to redemption is not gonna be easy.
Also the filler episode might also hint a little about Nifty. Maybe her being abused as a child and causing her to grow up to be a messed up person.
Hazbin feels like the answer to somebody's monkey's paw wish for a show with no filler.
I'm framing this comment and putting it on my wall.
Well atleast we will have an example to shut thouse idiots up with from now on. Also the idea that people have conflated 'character building' with 'filler' is just crazy. Filler originally meant completely tangental one off episodes made for Animae series where they had outrun the manga and the Animae creators had to make thier own from scratch episode rather then adapting directly from Manga material. Their hasn't been any 'Filler' in mainstream Anime since Naruto as the industry has restrutured to never follow right on the tail of activ Manga. People rightly hated it because they were notoriously bad because they intentionally tried to do NOTHING, no development, no lore, no change to anything in the world other then a no-name minor threat dispatched by the hero or the classic 'beach episode', it made a DBZ episode seem fast paced. Filler was filler because it was narrativly a void. The problem we have here is a lack of narrative meat.
Never taking filler for granted again
This is the best description of the show I’ve ever heard 😭
This is my fault then 😢
Honestly seeing the daddy issues get resolved so fast makes me wonder why there was daddy issues in the first place.
Because ✨cheap drama✨
Because it was meant to be built up, but they didn't have enough time
Who says it's resolved?
@@ElliotSunshinebut why did they put it in? They really should've just taken baby steps with each of their ideas instead of shoving all of it into a ball.
The daddy issues were muddled at best. They didn't know what problem the two had half the time.
This show REALLY needed and deserved around 24 episodes. It's crazy to me that after 4 years, all we get is 8 short episodes and it's over in half a month. I'm sure that AMAZON, multi-billion dollar company that it is, could have made that able to happen.
I think it was funded mostly by A24 not amazon, it just streamed there.
They also stated Season 2 was coming out, midway into production of Season 1, so we will certainly have more than 8 episodes.
This is one where I feel that the real problem is that the writing is probably going to ensure it's only 8 short episodes and it's over in half a month--if nothing else, it's sounding like the last episode may leave the show stuck. It would have been better to, say, set it up for 3 seasons of 8 episodes each (so total of 24 episodes) and planned it so we got a full arc instead of a curated assortment of moments. (And if I knew I was pitching a show to somewhere that's probably going to sell it to streaming, I'd actually probably have at least the bullet point version of the first three seasons and maybe back-of-napkin blurbs for additional possible seasons in my pitch.)
Or better yet, have the same runtime as MCU shows, 6-8 episodes 40 mins each because the flashbacks only get a few mins of screentime
@@kyoholiday129we will have 5 seasons according to the show's creator
Regardless of what anyone thinks and how messy this show is, *"My daughter wants to see me. Take that depression!"* will live in my head rent-free
That really is such a good line, genuinely was laughing for so long
@@bjwill9047 I had to stop the episode to laugh, legit was not expecting it
I thought it was super cute, hilarious but also a little sad. Lol literally went "hehe! Awe....wait...ohh..."
Same buddy same
I think with Husk mentioning that Alastor is on leash too, then having him also kick Mimzy out by being defensive about the hotel makes me feel like it hints that he struck a deal that has to do with the hotel
Alastor fr said to Lucifer "I'm not the step-dad, I'm just the dad who stepped up" the absolute bravery to beef with the king of hell like that 💀
Damn, cold asf ngl
Mf likes throwing hands and honestly that's iconic ☠️
@@signna He's such a chaotic little goofster frfr-
He looks more powerful than the short king
What's also funny is that, relatively, Alastor has only been at the hotel a little while and has only established a relationship with Charlie recently. It's probably going to be like Lilith stepped up as both the Mom and the Dad after her and Lucifer separated.
What nags me about this "Daddy issues" troupe with Charlie is that EVERYONE is too focused on her Dad.
Sure he calls her randomly for selfish reasons, but he still contacts her compared to the mother who haven't responded to her in seven freaking years. WHERE IS LILLITH???
The show writers really miss their dads okay, milk takes a while to get 😥
I dont even see him doing anything selfish with her, what exactly does the king of hell get from his daughter?
I don't even see the "daddy issues". Like it was in the writing only because of *course* that is what Angel would see 😂 she didn't want to rely on his power and authority to do things and only went to him as a last resort. The issue isn't him but the "cheating" that Charlie doesn't enjoy. The only other time she "weaponised" her status was with Angel and Val and well... it didn't work well.
sort of resonates what chorus said. Its "implied" that lucifer, while he calls Charlie, doesn't often spend personal time to know her. I think the show runners were trying to build him as an emotionally absent father, who pays and sends charlie for the occasional errand, but never actually opens up due to his depression.
But that characterization has no screen time at all, we just sort of have to jump to that conclusion
i think the implication is that she's dead
One thing I noticed is that Adam says he'll be back in 1 month... which means *5 WHOLE MONTHS* have been skipped over between episode 4 and 5... so I guess that means angel dust would've had time to break his drug habits but also... holy shit they skipped 5 whole months of time
how do you know the time skip was between episodes 4 and 5 and not, say, 3 and 4? Genuine question. The only other references to the time frame I recall are variations of "we don't have time". Though Carmilla's emergency meeting in episode 3 would imply that episodes 1-3 take place in the same month, because why would you wait to have an emergency meeting? But that doesn't say anything about episode 4 unless there's a key line of dialogue I'm not remembering.
@@BradenBesti think they show the clock in that episode showing how many days are left for extermination and it’s like 70 or something.
@@guillermoduncan2060 (Forgive me if I come across as argumentative, I promise that's not what I'm going for.) I have to assume the clock is shown in episode 5, as if the clock you mentioned is shown in episode 4, that would ground episode 4 as post-timeskip and definitively prove the timeskip happened between episodes 3 and 4. That said, a post-timeskip clock being in episode 5 doesn't tell us anything about when episode 4 takes place. Is there anything in episode 4 that would ground it as pre-timeskip to justify the statement that the timeskip happens right after episode 4? What grounds episode 3 as pre-timeskip is that it has the emergency meeting discussing the new extermination schedule, which wouldn't make sense chronologically unless it took place within a week of episode 1. Episode 4, though, makes chronological sense regardless. If it's pre-timeskip we can assume that angel dust made 5 months' worth of progress. If it's post-timeskip, it still works because this is the episode where angel dust is at his most vulnerable, it would make his actions in episode 6 a breakthrough moment for his character arc.
Unless you're misremembering the clock in episode 1 ticking down to 170 days left as showing 70 days left and being in a different episode?
shoutout to youtube for deleting my other reply, very cool and based.
i have a feeling viv is going to do flashbacks
The pacing is faster than made in heaven, if they had like, 16 episodes they could actually explore everything they're presenting
father pucci felt that comment
Season 2 will cause the universe to reset at this point😅
Yea, my biggest and only gripe with Hazbin and Helluva besides how little the characters are shown interacting and bonding with one another is the pacing. It just feels like there's little to no build up before we're hit with an important or meaningful moment and then it just doesn't feel as impactful as it's clearly intented to be. I think they're rushing with Hazbin because they're expecting the show to be cancelled early.
the problem is, they actually DO have 16 episodes, but only if you combine season 1 and 2 together, but yeah, kinda sad they dont get alot of episodes, if they do get renewed for a 3rd season that would be nice.
I understand why the pacing is going so fast though. It's probably because the team is worried the show is going to be cancelled one day. Given how long it took to even get the show off the ground, it's certainly possible it could get thrown back onto it again. I bet once the show runs for a while longer, the pacing will slow down as the team's anxiety eases.
The fact that this show has sailed through 5 months in just 2.5 real-world hours is crazy to me
Dont forget with NO PROGESS for the main hotel XD
@@tbeast151 Don't forget we've barely gotten past Charlie's summer camp exercises for redeeming sinners. Like, it's been 4 years, PLEASE don't tell me that's the only way she tries to redeem demons 💀
It's unfortunate they were only given the 8 or 10 episode max for season one. I feel had they been less restricted and allowed to actually pace things out, this could have absolutely slapped. It's already a great show, but the signers did them such a disservice by limiting not only the number of episodes, but also the amount of air time for each episode. Hopefully, they'll be able to have more freedom moving forward to really flesh out the Hazbin universe and characters in a more paced and in depth fashion. That is the downside of signing larger contracts. You are able to afford the high costs of production, but are restricted by the contract limits and deadlines. You trade one benefit for a detriment, unfortunately.
I thought Adam moved extermination date again just to tease Charlie.
Yeah i had been under the impression that there was like a week between episodes tops, so when adam said 'see you in a month' i thought he just moved the schedule even closer, not that it had been 5 months lol
Honestly if Charlie used Sir Pentius as a redemption example it would work way better. He made way more progress over the show than Angel imho
I think the point of using Angel was used to show his character development.
Before Husker and the hotel, Angel would’ve never stood up to Valentino or defended somebody from the hotel. He even invited Cherry Bomb to stay with him
Remember, Charlie had picked Angel Dust as her example before, in the pilot. And the show has gone out of its way to tell us the pilot is canon, so it makes the most sense that Charlie really does trust Angel. Always has. Sir Pentius is good at playing along but, his morals are a little more flexible and she sure as shit doesn't trust Alistair. Nifty scares her and Husker she doesn't know what his deal with Alistair is and that makes him too much of a wildcard for this.
She trusts Angel. And after episode 4. She gets it.
one thing we need to remember is between episode 2 (angels wake up call) and episode 6 is there is a massive time gap, another issue of the show that i dont think is picked up enough. so in between that time angel dust may have shown massive improvements but the only real example of this is in episode 4 where he finally admits he isnt himself and he is being someone else to hide from his pain. this is why filler is important
Right!? I legit thought: "please be sir. Pentious, and not angel dust" when she was about to say who the Improved patron was.
Because Angel is a fan favorite
I need to know why Sera allowed Emily, who doesn't know about the purges in Hell, to attend a court hearing where the literal Princess of Hell is speaking if she didn't want Emily to know of said purges.
THANK YOU. I was so confused at that, I don't know why she was worried about keeping Adam from saying anything because how would Charlie not bring that up going "And you see if we redeem the sinners we can stop the exterminations!" "Exterminations?!" I was totally baffled
Honestly, why didn't Charlie bring up the exterminations? Like, if I was royalty and I was trying to make people stop murdering my people, I'd bring up the actual genocide as often as I could
@@ChesireWaltz Emily is a Seraphim and a member of the court. I don't think Sera can can stop her attending.
Sera is not an emperor. She is more like a "Speaker of Senate".
You mean she IS the Senate😂
@@noradlark167So She IS the Senate lol.
ngl Lucifer being a burnt out gifted kid is honestly everything
?????????????????
Just like me fr fr
@@DishonorableMentions452 Come closer I got ice cream..
Makes sense he is literally an angel in hell
He’s me fr lol
The problem with Charlie and her dad having a touching song about how he cares so much for her, after being absent for so long, is that he only just showed up minutes ago.
"We just have... never been close." Really? Did the person who wrote the rest of the episode know that?
As someone with divorced parents, Lucifer "i care so much" song makes sense
I like it with his depression making it hard to understand feelings and anxiety with the one he loves the most.
And his loud character feeling almost forced. Like he's putting on a mask to hide his depression.
Like how he's occupying himself with ducks almost as a distraction.
It's disney styled a bit and fast paced comedy, I guess creative style shouldn't exist without every single thing being fleshed out to the pimple
He clearly care's about her, as shown by his extreme happiness when she invited him over. He just had depression and didn't think Charlie wanted to see or hear from him. The line "This is the first time she's called you in years" shows that.
This entire season needed to be split into two seasons, like the reveal of the dead angel feels like it would be the big reveal halfway through a season, rather than the first episode
Feels like helliva boss having all of it's emotional bits happen in season 1
Y’know, thinking it over, the whole Pentious getting dragged away could have actually added to Angel’s story here. Maybe watching him being forced into that situation, after technically asking for it, resonates with him and results in Angel getting him out before the door closed.
Pentious, grateful to Angel not only for helping him, but looking out for him as a friend, would then go to back Angel up when confronting Valentino, someone he once wanted to work beside, but now holds no respect for due to his treatment of Angel. That would have honestly been really heartwarming to see
This is such a good idea!! This would’ve been so much better than a cheap grape joke
that joke disgusted me after the show and viz claimed so hard to actually care about these issues via the whole drama involving angel dust's episode, completely ruined my trust in this show sadly :(
This is actually good character development for both characters and a missed opportunity. Not that the writing in this show is necessarily bad.
@@insertname9736The writing is awful wdym
@@TrouplemakerIt is not that awful dude. And if you think that then stop fucking watching just to bitch online afterwards!
Alastor's "Haha, fuck you." line is just as hilarious here as in the actual show. And honestly, I could see them having this same argument too. I love their rivalry.
The way I paused the episode cuz it took me off guard 😭 He took that so personally
omg I had to pause the episode cause I was CACKLING so hard. My sides hurt after. It was so unexpected lol. The animation when he leaned down was super smooth and his expression was hysterical.
I laughed my ass with the fuck you part and I was so caught off guard the whole time I just died
Wasn’t this a comment on tomato sauce’s video? Some of this comment doesn’t fit this video. I’m pretty sure this is a bot
Why does have two rivals.
Honestly, this is exactly what I was scared of when I heard that Hazbin Hotel is going to be on Prime. Don't get me wrong, an *Indie* animation getting so much love and recognition, to the point when a professional streaming service wants to support it is AMAZING. But you know why Indie projects are always so good? Because the creators aren't limited by any big corporations above them. PrimeVideo gave HazbinHotel opportunity, but they are also the reason why there is only 8 episodes in the season, which is clearly not enough.
I feel like this is harsh but at this point I kind of wish Viv had just keep this show as an indie production like Helluva boss. She clearly has a lot of a ideas but was forced to squeeze them into a small time frame, which wouldn't have been an issue if the show wasn't tied to a streaming service. I don't think she'd be lacking in funds either considering the massive fanbase surrounding this show who desperately want to see it done well.
@Laura-iu8sp which begs the question. Why didn't she just made the show over on youtube like helluva boss?
@@TimeMakerManI don't know much about Vivzipop but it might have just been that her dream was to get her project professionally produced and aired on TV. And I'm guessing that was the only way she could get the Broadway stars she wanted?
@@TimeMakerManIt May Have Been Too Expensive To Have Both Of Them Here.
@@Laura-iu8sp my theory is that producing a show simply costs, and already having one show to keep alive is a lot let alone running two? maybe?...
It's kind of sad, because we're essentially getting the abridged version of a show we'll never get to see, just because of the amount of episodes on a contract.
I really think the first season should have been dedicated to introducing the characters from the hotel, fleshing out their relationships and focusing more on their redemption and the second season should have introduced the whole heaven and angels part of the story. It would make the pacing so much slower, made you care more about what is happening to the characters and would create a neat two-part structure, in my opinion
Yeahhh I agree, how it is here is really rushed, and Hazbin has the potential to be a really good series but it's going way too fast. If I hadn't been following since the pilot, I would've felt like I've just met these characters. Definitely should've been slower
If season one having so few episodes was unavoidable, then in hindsight the show probably shouldn’t have even introduced Adam and the other angels until season two
Yeah while I agree I think companies like this are greedy and don’t care for good build up just the money
This is definitely a show that should have had 20 episodes in the first season.
Or least 12
20 would be dope as hell. Hehe, get it?
@@deejayf69 no
They will probably get longer seasons when Amazon gives them more money
Sadly amazon is a bitch
The pacing is honestly the only real issue I’ve had with the season soo far. Like I think the story is really entertaining but it could benefit by slowing down a bit. Maybe they’ll do it for the second season but I am still invested. I miss the days where a season was considered 24 episodes instead of 8 episodes long.
Or when they did short to 8 episodes, they were two or three times as long so you had space to breathe within the episode. I most prefer the longer seasons but 8 episodes at 20-ish minutes isn't even average for an anime season. Even just 4 or 5 more episodes would have given more space to breathe for sure.
I think it might have worked out with the episodes they had if they had just split them into 2 separate arcs. The first four episodes could have been dedicated specifically to the hotel and fleshing out its residents, while the second half could explore the heavenly aspect of the situation and leave the decapitated exterminator as a cliff hanger.
you will never get over 12-14 episodes a season with indie shows, high budget anime struggles even getting 24 episodes
True, this show should be all about backstory of how they lived their life and the choices they made. I was hoping this would be more about finding forgiveness than just being good.
Or maybe if the episodes were 45 minutes long.
Honestly, the show feels like they hoped for 20 Episodes, planned for 16 and got 8, and still decided to out everything they came up with into it.
I was honestly thinking the same thing
I think the most undeserved thing was Carmilla Carmines weird all out belting number in episode 3. We have barely a clue who she is, she admits she kills the angel and she gets an I want/need song before Angel? An actual main character? WTF WHY?
Yeah that one was really confusing it's like Viv wrote a song for a character the close knit community would know but literally no one else would even know existed lol
Yes, and She has not appeared on screen since then
I was SO hyped for Carmilla (mostly because I am a diehard Rent fan that loves Daphne Rubin Vega) and I became so disappointed when she didn't show up in any other episodes. Hopefully the finale this week will break the streak?
(Update: I totally forgot the finale came out today and I just watched it. I was right!)
it foreshadowed the finale with vaggie, so invalid. and it was a banger.
It feels like we’ve gotten all the “important episodes” of an actual series, like you know the specific kids cartoon episodes that just get into the story and everyone loves? Those. It feels like we’re missing the actual show and just getting the juicy bits
The show feels like when you write a long speech for a presentation in school, realize you’re really far over the time limit, and then try to cut out sentences from every paragraph to make sure all the main points stay in.
It’s like the monkey’s paw of Steven Universe - level filler where everyone just got lore bits 24/7, but everything built around that is paper thin.
had they been given more episodes with a longer run time, and assurance that their show wouldn’t be canceled after season 1 or 2 then the pacing and story would be so much better
exactly
yeah, they had a story for 20 episodes, and when they only got 8, instead of reworking the story to fit into that runtime, they just tried to cram it all in :/ im still mourning all the fun stuff we couldve gotten if this show had time for filler
turns out the entire series of hazbin hotel AND helluva boss is a story about the daddy issues we had along the way.
underrated comment 💀
LMFAOOO
LITTERALLY. Everyone in hell has Daddy issues
@@Techno_Bunny433 I think the show should spice it up with a little bit of mommy issues, or Mabye even grandpa issues
@konakona420 there's Stella if you count her as a bad mom but I'm not sure if Octavia likes or hates her mom.
“Cherry bomb… she was here… moving on” truth hurts 💀
Yeah, was really hoping she would have more appearances after the pilot. Better to have two than not at all, I guess. I desperately hope they double the amount of episodes for S2...
One thing I was confused about in ep 6 is how when Adam revealed to Charlie that vaggie was an angel, Charlie had eyes like she was shocked af and then she fell to the ground like it was a huge deal, then in the scene everyone just acts like nothing happened….wtf was that for then
thats because the reveal was meant to specifically hurt charlie by revealing that her girlfriend had been one of the angels slaughtering thousands of her people every year. The other angels dont have a reason to care.
Well the only two people who would care (Charlie and Vaggie) are forced to leave directly after that
I don't even understand why Charlie would care that much. I mean I get it that it be a shocking reveal for her... but like... it would just be surprising.
Charlies has literally not shown a single bit of hate for... well for anyone, not even the genocidal angels. Like... *what was even the point of that reveal ???*
It changes nothing. Are we just making OC with cool elements for the sake of having cool elements ? We're just doing another "Moxxie's dad" situation where it happens out of nowhere and sounds like a fanfiction, and right after it just doesn't change anything ?!
I really enjoy hazbin hotel and helluva boss, but god vivz need to improve her writings. She keep making the same mistake over and over, it's honestly kinda sad because there's so much potencial.
While I think Vaggie being revealed as an exorcist is an interesting twist(even if it's something most people could've guessed), I do have a butt ton of questions that come with this revelation.
Are we expected to believe she's really the first exorcist to have ever hesitated in killing a sinner?
Was this hesitation a consistent pattern, or was this a one time thing?
Is immediate execution the punishment for failing to fulfill your duty and if so WHY didn't Adam just have her killed rather than left for dead?
We know the real reason for the exterminations was supposed to be kept hush hush, yet you left an exorcist that knows valuable information about heaven in the realm of the very people you're trying to keep in check. It's massively lucky for Adam that Vaggie didn't fall into the hands of an overlord like Allistor.
@@tartipousscharlie has shown genuine hatred, she just keeps herself under control
Adam’s design has me questioning so much. The just straight imp look, and the questioning of how Adam got into heaven, has me thinking about a greater reveal later.
He's probably wearing an extermination mask like what Lute has, as Lute's mask does has horns and a similar single colored face like Adam
Is a mask. It would be weird Lute gets to have a normal face but Adam gets stuck witb his perpetual LED face
Maybe he doesnt take it of because he thinks it looks cool (and actually, it does look cool😅)
idk how the story goes in catholicism, but in orthodox christianity we were taught adam and eve were sent to hell, seeing him in heaven (before he even spoke) confused me
I am 1000% sure that Adam is not an angel and does not belong in Heaven. His wings are not feathery, he enjoys literal murder even of children, and those horns... if they're a mask, then it's super weird that he doesn't take it off even when Lute walks around without hers.
@@lunnaa777they go to hell in Catholic isn't too, no one goes to heaven in the Catholic canon until Jesus dies
Hazbin Hotel feels like the show version of someone showing off their OCs. They have good designs, strong concepts, and emotional moments but the stories and characters are told through a bulletpoint textpost of what those stories and moments are rather than a built narrative. It's a more entertaining show than I expected (the songs especially blow me away) but I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the ideas that are being blitzed past that now can't be given the time they need
Yeah I can see that minus a few most have surface level personalities.
This is like one of the best take i've seen about hazbin, holy shit man exactly.
It basically IS showing off OCs. Most of the fanbase I have been around mostly asked what their favorite character is or what character they relate to most is and all that. WHERE IS THE SUBSTANCE? WHERE IS THE CREATIVE LAYERS? VIV YOU ARE NOT A 16 YEAR OLD SCENE KID ANYMORE YOU ARE 31!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For me, I like Sir Pentious because I freakin' relate to him a LOT. He's awkward, he's nervous, he's animated, he's trying his best. All things that I am myself, honestly.
Honestly I kinda wish they had the first season be 12 episodes of “shenanigans at the hotel” just so we could get to know the characters and there world better. Then have all of what we do have now more into a second season. Idk I just think that it would have made it more impactful. (yes I know they didn’t know if they would get a second season this is just how I wish it could’ve went :/)
Yeah, that would have probably been better. The show as it is right now pretty much feels as if it's trying to be season 1 and season 2 at the same time. It's hard to make proper plans in such a capricious industry sadly.
To me it seems very clear they were terrified they could not earn a second season so they're just trying to throw all the cool ideas out here so then at least people know about them in case it wasn't greenlit which to me shows a supreme lack of confidence in their work. I definitely think that 12 episodes shenanigans at the hotel could have stood on its own and would have set up all of the story beats theyre ripping through now much better
Honestly, to me, it would have been more sense for Charlie to have mommy issues since She left/went missing 7 years ago and is heavily implied to be the reason Charlie never connected with her dad since she kept them apart. (I know this weird to say, but I do hope she is the main villain of the show because she can technically be like Stella, but better and actually prove Viv can write villain female characters correctly)
Cherry bomb is an awesome villain/anti-hero? There are also plenty of decent female villains in Helluva Boss.
@@VyseMalice Cherry bomb isn't really an antagonist though, she's obviously a villain but she isn't opposed to the protagonists at all. Stella is an antagonist, but she sucks all the way around. The original commenter is talking about a female antagonist that isn't just a one off joke or completely idiotic.
Lute is absolutely a well written female villain. She acts just like a female serial killer; and Stolas's wife is legimately the absolute paragon of what an evil woman looks like in real life. Men use violence, Women assassinate reputation and try to get men to do the violence for them.@@Anonymous-hx3pu
I doubt Vivziepop is that uhh.. creative. To make her female cast to be outside of being typical Karens,Bitchy, and Mary Sue.
@@VyseMalice plenty? Stella is 2d hate sink evil, which for me was just a major waste of story drama potential.
Verosika? Potential to be a nice character, but she doesn't really act like a villain as such. Just an antagonist wiht, so far, reasonable grievances against Blitz she acts on in a bad way.
Otherwise? Agent Two? THe target of the first episode? Glitz and Glam? Barbie?
Hazbin feels like they had a 24 episode season planned, only to be told 'hey, what if you only had 8 instead' so they had to fit all the plot bits into a third of the time they needed
the owl house core
It’s likely the case, it happens all the time with all media really. For everything they’re trying to tackle with the time given and the overall quality of the show, personally I think it’s just fine. When we get another season, episode numbers will def be the first thing
Yeah... Really reminds me of DotA Dragon Blood situation which had... guess what? 24 episodes for 3 Seasons... Aka each Season is 8 episodes long... And it is KNOWN FACT that show was made with 30 minute episodes in mind... And Netflix suddenly mid-production declares "Make it 21 min long per episode!" which leads to ridiculous cuts and pacing of first two season being not fast but REALLY fast...
I thought I will never see anything worse... But lo and behold... Hazbin Hotel is hit with it even harder! It is not a case of "Cram 30 mins in 20 instead for first 16 episodes" but cram THREE EPISODES INTO ONE. Story Pacing is not fast... It is like someone constantly pushes "Fast forward" button on the remote... 5 episodes in and 5 in-world months have passed... Hooboy...
Imagine if Season 2 is just flashbacks to all the stuff that should’ve been in the first season.
that would be ret*rded
Like an episode where Vox just breaks the 4th wall and shows us everything we missed. That could work
2:12 the absolute disrespect, alastor shakes his cane instead of hand yet STILL wiped his hand on his coat
Sir Pentious is the real “example tenant” for the hotel because he seems to actually be trying, since Charlie is the first person to give him a chance to do something other than just fight everyone and be used. The whole time Heaven was being shown Angel Dust, I was just begging for the camera to focus on Sir Pentious and have Charlie be like “oh wait!!! See him trying to befriend an old enemy?? And being nice??” But uh. Maybe that will come later. Good for AngelDust, but I want SnakeBoi to get some recognition by whomever is supposed to “agree that Charlie is right.”
Seriously! When she said, "We have a client who has shown great progress" I literally thought she was talking about Sir Pentious because ever since he got there he's been a nice, kind, wholesome person. He would have been a better example because while Angel Dust has a lot of heart and is improving, his journey is still going to be a long and difficult one with all his past and current trauma and abuse whereas Sir Pentious seems basically already redeemed
I think angeldust is just the favorite child of the show tbh
"IM HAVING SEX WITH EVERYONE!!!" -Sir pentious
@@DavidM7314Simple, they want to explore Angel Dust more, even though Sir Panties is make up more sense to been choose from but he didn't had anything that want to be explored yet in the series...
i agree, i think the writers from the very beginning planned for angel to be the example to heaven, but due to horrible pacing failed to flesh that out.
Something I noticed is that Vaggie was in her pilot outfit when Charlie found her and helped her
So was Charlie! I love that detail.
@@TheRibottoStudios Didn’t even notice that at first, such a cool detail!
So the pilot is definitely canon then, as this implies they changed later
Angel was also in his pilot outfit in his uh, “film” at the beginning of episode 4!
@@Isuream6331 it can't be completely canon though since in the pilot she calls her mother who's been missing for 7 years.
I feel like this is something where the whole plot was already roughly drafted, like a skeleton script or something, and they expected like at least 12 20 minute episodes or maybe 8 40 min but Amazon gave em a “nah fuck you figure it out” because they don’t care to spend money on things that won’t have immediate investment return.
It honestly seems like it was a fully developed plot and they surpassed the word count 5 times over so they had to gut it as much as possible.
They also NEEDED to have a relatively resolved plot segment if they were to get renewed. I don’t really blame the writers, I’d blame Amazon for giving an animation show, that is CLEARLY world building heavy and not just like regular show or some shit, only 20 minutes each for only 8 episodes.
The current entertainment landscape does not want to support animation and this is simply a symptom of that
Yes, but then they would habe to see the facts in the eye and decide to cut parts of the script they had drafted. You have to work with what you are given. It sucks, but if you want to tell a good story, you have to make sacrifices
To comment on Lute's design being generic without the helmet, alongside all the Exterminators seemingly being girls and possibly all named by Adam.
Could imply that Adam himself was used to make them all.
Like how Eve was made from his rib.
Exterminators could be made from parts of his body. This could also, possibly be why Adam wears such a heavy and bulky robe, alongside keeping his helmet on.
To hide the fact that Adam the first human gave up various parts of himself just to make a race of angels, just to get payback on his EX lol
I really like this theory, I feel like with the number of exterminators there are being made from parts of himself would be excessive. But at the same time, thinking that he covers up that he's missing so much by, well covering up is a good idea. I think his mask could be how his face is tho? Like it functions differently compared to the other exterminators, when he's talking, among other things. There really is alot to unpack in just 8 episodes XD
The funniest thing in this last episode for me is that actually Cherri didnt reject Sir Pentious, she smiled and just asked "well why should I" she was following the game at her own way, but poor shy boy didnt expect that question, probably he expected an absolute rejection on the thought from her part. I didnt thought i would, but i kinda ship them now, I hope we get more interactions with them in the future.
“Uhh, ah, uhm, be-cause I’m having sex with EVERYONE HEEERRREEEE!!” *proceeds to get dragged to funky fun times*
Man just needs a little more confidence. I hope Cherri bomb builds him up. Actually, I wonder did Sir Pentious make Cherri his enemy because he wanted to get close to her.
I’m just sad that he missed the opportunity to tell her about his double snake penises. That would have sold ME.
I genuinely was kinda taken back when she said that, "Why would I have sex with you?" As a response to someone trying to hook up is just such an odd and funny thing to say, that would probably throw anyone off, let alone Pentious who can't even pull off a normal human interaction to save his life. I also can't help but imagine what Pentious would have even done if he did get her in a room alone, like in what world does he think he'd even be good at a sex when he doesn't even know how to ask for a sex 😂
@@xigglestalking about sex, does he even have a penis? Would it be some weird octopus hole filling crap? I know I'm getting away here but this is genuine curiosity.
I think part of the reason why Charlie making her case to Heaven and using Angel Dust as an example feels so weird - and this is absolutely another issue with the show - is the huge time jump. Episode 4 was a week after the Hotel opened, 6 months until extermination, and at the beginning of episode 5, we learned that 5 months had passed. It took me until Adam telling Charlie she’d see her in a month to get my head wrapped around that! Charlie freaking out at the beginning of episode 5 and her being nervous at the trial is supposed to be indicative of the fact that she really hasn’t built a strong case to show sinners can be redeemed yet, and she was relying on 5 months of character growth from Angel Dust that we haven’t even seen to make her case that, even if they’re not all the way there yet, it’s possible. It’s further evidence of the show’s pacing issues and not having these incredible moments feel earned, along with narrative issues. I mean, the one plot point that was supposed to handwave a lot of that buildup away to have us fill in the gaps, the time skip, isn’t even narratively clear. Charlie says it outright, sure, but it doesn’t *feel* like a time jump happened to where I questioned whether Charlie was a reliable narrator.
It doesn’t feel like a time jump so much that I didn't really realize that. I heard Charlie saying that but only this comment make me realize that So weird!
Wait what 5 months had passed?
Yeah, the time jump really threw me for a loop. I really wish they would’ve give season one a lot more episodes to flesh everything out, cause everything is so compact and happens so fast, the plot isn’t really given time to breathe
@@pancytryna93785 months in the Hazbin Hotel universe
@@ghostlyexefrl
This show feels like a fanfiction, and what I mean is the way of telling a story knowing your readers know who all these characters are. I have not watched any of the livestreams, been a part of twitter drama and im not in the (insane) fandom. Ive only ever watched the pilot and I feel like im missing some kind of meta in this show😵💫
Thing is as someone who was in the fandom, you were actually. Vivziepop does social media shows that appeal to chronically online social media users who make videos of "this character does this for 3 minutes straight". It's basically encouraging the death of the attention span and lowers the encouragement of critical thinking.
Not only that, but the fandom went all matpat and spewed out theory after theory and world building piece after world building piece based on every episode, livestream, social media post, and con panel Viv has ever taken part of. This makes a show suffer because it is suggesting that if one hasn't done anything outside of being a casual viewer, then you really haven't watched the show AT ALL!!!
I only watched the pilot once and had no issue following anything in the show, sounds like a u issue
It's funny how a show about hell is so scared to touch heavy issues
And when they do they fuck it up lmao
Didn't they handle Angel's abuse pretty well?
@@camerondalton1495 that’s debatable coming from a SA victim btw. Like the message is there but it feels so poorly handled, like the writers had no experience with something like that and just needed to make it happen to get the whole plot point of Angel Dust being the prime example of a gateway to redemption out of the way :/
@@camerondalton1495 On some level I'm more on the lines of Spinel from Steven Universe "You can't fix everything by singing some stupid song"; note I'm quoting the character and am not calling the song itself stupid.
For such heavy levels of baggage that is Angel Dust I agree with Sarcastic Chorus; one episode is rushing his character development, especially when you have him going from just starting to open up to being the key witness for improvement.
Also while I'm not bagging on how people cope and deal with their trauma, have Angel Dust go from being Sexually Violated to Sexually Harassing people isn't in good taste, at least to me.
Again there maybe some people who have go through the same and handle it that way and I mean no I'll will on them or their struggle, but Angle Dust is Different, since they're a fictional character there reaction is completely up to the writers to determine how Angel Dust handles it and this isn't the best choice to go with; but again that's my opinion. Outside of that I feel it was handled pretty well, with the biggest detriment to it being the lack of time to fully develop it properly.
I've seen tons of SA victoms who say it wa done well, looks like everyone's experiences are just different huh@@AbadabaBoy
bro can you imagine how much more attachment people would have with this show if there were more interactions with the characters.
definitely need more episodes, i hope the pacing gets worked on
To be fair, it’s hard to do that when you’re given an 8 episode limit for a story where you need at least like 20 episodes. And also I doubt they could change the story much because of how anticipated hazbin hotel has been.
@@projectmoonsleeperagent I don't think they need 20 episodes. They coule give each main character 2 episodes of development and fill about 16 episodes if they're willing to drag it out, -2 with Charlie's development being mixed in with the rest of the casts situations.
A 12 episode season would've been perfect, but yanno. That's up to corporate. As always, the creative team can only jog to keep up to the set pace.
I like the idea of Alastor an egotistical maniac who only does things for his own benefit slowly warms up to charlie and the others and begins his own small redemtion arc in a way. Too bad we didn't get to see it.
I mean, we DO see Alastor talking to Mimzy about the, albeit miniscule, chance of her being redeemed, which could hint to something akin to an Alastor redemption arc.
That’s what thought they were going for. But not having him interact with Charlie or have him once considered that sinners can change. Makes they’re gonna redeem him without any build up. I hope not though.
@@TheLegoKid2003 that comes out of no where. When did he start believing in the hotel AND WHY? Angel is supposed to be the sinner that has changed but we don’t see interact enough for Alastor to go ‘maybe Charlie’s plan is possible’ or ‘maybe sinners can be better’.
I don’t he does at all. I think him telling Mimzy to scram was because this hotel is part of some scheme to get more power and he doesn’t want her screwing it up. No way he believes in redemption. He’s just being very manipulative.
Personally, I don’t think Alastor needs a redemption arc at all. He took to Hell like a fish to water. He thrives there and has everything he could ever want. Heaven would stifle who he is in every fiber of his being. Sometimes he says and does things that make you think he’s changing but it’s a farce. Mimzy said he can be a kitten but I think that’s only to people who are either in his good graces or that he has a use for. He’s a charmer but it’s all just honeyed words.
Honestly from my experience, Prime video grabs anything it can with good foundation (usually books) and spits out VERY rushed shows that have been cut to the bare bones for seemingly no reason. unfortunately for us, it always manages to choose things with large fan bases and hype it up well before giving us ruined stories that could have been beautiful.
a24 funded hazbin hotel, amazon prime is just where it ended up streaming
Idk man. Invincible doesnt have that same problem tho. I feel like A24 didnt give Viv’s team enough money for 40 mins of runtime or A24 and Bento box doesnt do 10 episodes and Viv wanted to skip any filler because its too risky
what were even the daddy issues though???? like they just didn’t see each other?? it seems like the small amount of tension between them would have been broken easily anyways because their really weren’t that many issues between them.
Said before, Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel have a main worrying recurrences. Speeding through plot and character development, you get the feeling the creators are terrified the show will end without being completed so everything at light speed. In a perfect world, Lucifer saying he'd see the hotel would have made a great season 1 cliffhanger
It's a justified fear. Shows get dumped for far less than they've been doing. Steven Universe fought for Garnet's wedding, and were then told to wrap up two seasons worth of story in five episodes because it nuked their overseas syndication. Infinity Train tried more serious content and their studio dragged their feet on renewals until Zaslav, End of Art was able to devour it for tax write-offs along with half of the Warner Bros stable. The simple fact is that art is always compromised by capitalism, and trying to make it your career means letting someone else fuck your vision until it is gravid with mediocrity.
@@marcussherlock6318 This is imo what more people should be talking about. Yeah, Hazbin's pacing has been bad, but it's an issue we've been seeing year after year after year with shows with great ideas being compromised by capitalism.
@@marcussherlock6318 Nice that Gravity Falls was able to fight through it
If we're taking about Helluva Boss also speeding through character development in fear of being cancelled...that makes even less sense considering Helluva Boss is produced in house. Like what are they even afraid of?
@@marcussherlock6318 THIS. This is the the true problem right. here.
While I understand what you’re getting at, the Sir Pentious “Cause I’m…. Having sex with everyone!” Joke was hilarious
Yeah I laughed so hard🤣
Pentious is the most endearing character yeah he's less plot imorant bnut the show would lose out on a lot of entertainment value without him.
Probably my favorite joke of the season
I didn’t care for him in the pilot but goddamn has he slithered into my heart this season
I laugth internaly a lot when warching the show. But that joke was the One that actually made me burst
I'm really starting to think vivzi herself has daddy issues.
You’re telling me it wasn’t already painfully obvious to you from the start? 😂
She's 31, queer, half Salvadoran and went to art school. She's a "went to catholic school" I'd say you got the "daddy issues" bingo.
Nooooooo! Really??????
she deffo has mommy issues. there are good dads like lucifer and stolas. is there any good mother in the show?
@@alexanderhenby1362wtf queer means it's just a filler word flavour text.
Is she gay. What a surprise.
i am SO glad you see through the whole “alastor doesnt mean it when he says he sees charlie as a daughter” bs
its the same fucking thing as sir pentious and angel’s exchange in the pilot about being daddy and son, or even when husk calls angel “kid” in Welcome to Heaven yet for those scenes NO ONE bats an eye, and suddenly just cus alastor couldnt pretend to be charlie’s bf cus she already introduced vaggie first, he then went for being her father figure
Everyone should see through it through. Since, you know, it's really fking obvious.
The big issue with Charlie and Lucifer is that while they tell us there are issues between them, we literally never see it. Sure, they're a bit awkward around each other, but neither of them actually do anything to the other to cause a rift. Or if they did, we're never shown it. Lucifer rocks up, they're a bit awkward in their perspectives, they sing, and he books her a ticket to heaven. That's it. It's a double-stacked reconciliation burger without any of the beef.
I mean that’s not a bad thing though I know other shows that do this. Especially with couples that have broken up they’re just awkward and hurt by each other but it’s never explicitly stated or if it is it’s later at a more dramatic moment. I don’t think that is an automatic failure if you do this it just depends on how it’s done.
Also people can have a strained relationship with a parent who didn’t DO any thing like big but just wasn’t around a lot so it’s awkward. I think that would make sense for Charlie if Lucifer was an absent father but not abusive just missed out on the chance to bond with her.
"A double-stacked reconciliation burger without the beef"... man, that's good. I'll have to try and remember that phrase.
@@RaspBerryPiesyeah honestly with how similar lucifer is to charlie there is no way i can see that they wouldnt reconsile almost instantly as they did.
I also noticed this as well. During the song between them, where we see kid Charlie and Lucifer bond a tad bit, I noticed how they had to stop because Lilith took her away. They never really show why Lucifer and Charlie were so distant from each other. For me, it felt like they needed to add an issue between them.
We see a hint as to maybe why they’ve been so seprate is the flashback to them bonding but Lilith takes her away, I think it implies that Lilith took charile away from Lucifer for most of her childhood, although it still is very rushed
I have a counter theory to why alastor beefed with Lucifer right away.
Alastor beneath his facade is always a monster and he enjoys cruelty.
To see the literal king of hell being a giant depressed dork who’s not even physically intimidating.
That eye twitch at the start SCREAMS “this is Lucifer? THIS IS LUCIFER?! The king of hell?! The lord of all sinners! The rebel against god!! Master of suffering! I feel cheated that this dork I could eat this dork breakfast! No you know what I’m gonna eat this dork for breakfast!”
lmao i can see that happen hahaha
Oh my god, the true definition of meeting your heroes hahaha, I love this additional narrative dialogue that you provide cause I was getting much of the same feeling, yet the only thing holding Alastor back is his own definition of class and Lucifers power over Alastor. It makes it SOOO funny. As if, you can always grow and become more and more powerful, but still face the same limitations like many others, requiring creativity to ascertain important and long lasting goals, once you realize how to bring happiness to yourself and others, but in a more POWERFUL sense, to give voice to the things that are constantly pushed down and out of the global voices at large, to instead figure out easier and self-pushing goals that help others around you as you move through the world, finally THERE, in the moment, while still having access to memories of your past. To keep the important lessons at heart and remember without dragging yourself down in the process.
Tbh this would be just Soooooooo funny😂
In part because I also had this reaction. Is this Lucifer? Father of lies, incarnation of evil, ultimate Big Bad of Real Life Lucifer? THAT LUCIFER?
I just didnt had the electroswing sing off tho
Alastor: I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast
Lucifer: You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
Alastor feels like the real main character
My favorite thing about Lucifer is not only that he is some quirky dad… he’s a SHORT quirky dad. I don’t think we get that many short dads that often. His reaction to Charlie introducing Vaggie is such a mood
The last two episodes went so quickly that they almost physically manifested and snapped my neck from sheer whiplash. I noticed it was going a bit fast in the first four episodes, but we went from going 75 mph in a 65 mph zone to breaking the sound barrier with these episodes. Really hope the next ones dial it back a bit and they get more episodes with season 2, because WOW!
dude episode 8 is the war
bruh moment- the pacing is giving me a headache@@pegeta
@@pegetadoes mean we may get a more chill slice of life vibe in the second season which id be down for.
more wont help them if no ones there to edit and help. if they dont know what to do with 8 they will just do it worse with more
I feel like the pacing will get worse and will end up shooting the show in the foot. Which is a shame since fans been supporting this since the pilot
Angel looking out for the smallest person really speaks to him, even though he wants to have a good time he knows he needs to look out for her. But him asking "do u wanna play with the kitty" was just funny
When he said that, I thought maybe they brought KeeKee with them 🤣
It does raise more questions about Niffty though... She's a bdsm psychopath who like pain and bad people, who was presumably deemed bad enough to go to Hell... but she's treated like a child who needs to be babysat? What is her damage?
When I first watched episode 6 Adam’s threat felt so empty because Charlie’s whole thing the entire show is people can change
Yeah, but you can't have Adam actually address how crappy many of the sinners in Hell are. OTherwise, people might agree with him.
@@camerondalton1495 I’m talking about his threat to expose vaggie
@@amarahslatton1002**sigh** his threat is to expose Vaggie has been lying to her, it doesn't matter she's lying about being an exterminator. It's the fact she's been lying to Charlie at all about something so important for this long. How can you people not get this?
Viv should have crowd funded the show via kickstarter, and done Hazbin with her indie studio. She would have gotten more than 50K easy, and she wouldn't have been forced to squeeze the story in such a manner.
Is 50k even enough for 1 episode let alone a whole season
The problem is not only the # of episodes she was given, but her writing and plotting abilities. Same issues with Helluva.
@@navana789Edgerunners and Over The Garden Wall are short but did far better with everything, they made the show, they're responsible for everything.
@@artistanthony1007 I agree!!
Another thing I’ve noticed about Alistair is he’s surprisingly expressive. I mean don’t get me wrong he just smiles’ but the animators do a really good job at showing the difference between an indifference smile, happy smile, and a really pissed off smile.
I have a theory that Lilith (assuming that it is Lilith that Alastor is chained to) sent Alastor to help or watch over Charlie and Alastor is just using the excuse of entertainment to keep it a secret that he is on Lilith’s leash, and being like a father figure to Charlie (on Lilith’s request) which would make it more clear of why Alastor got pissed and even cursed at Lucifer. (Sorry if I explained it badly)
I suspected Alastor came back due to Charlie's mom as soon as we learned that Alastor had been gone for seven years, and previously it was established that Charlie's mom was too. These latest two episodes pretty much confirmed it.
Yeah I thought that was what we've been hinting at. Becauase---they're not subtle with hints. Like, it's pretty damned clear. Justlike clearly Vaggie was an angel. And I also took that to play into Alastor's anger as well. Either that A. he's spent so much time with LIlith he fucking hates Lucifer. or B. He hates him as an extension of disliking Lilith for being his keeper.
@@marli8907 only time will tell but
It will probably be revealed season 2 or 3 but only time can tell
wow that’s a good theory
@@certified_l0serthanks
I know in the announcement trailer, it was said that season 2 had already been confirmed - but of course this was near the end of season 1 being produced. Do we know if they were originally greenlit for 2 seasons, or if Amazon only Greenlit it AFTER seeing the work on season 1?
Because if they knew they were getting a season 2, and based on where we're at in the story by episode 6/8, I really don't understand why they wouldn't slow the pacing down and let the second half of this season go to season 2.
You're absolutely right about the scenes feeling fine on their own, but not having enough buildup to them. They feel undeserved.
Why should I care that Charlie is making peace with her father when the ONLY interaction they've had up till this point is a single off-screen phone call? Why should I care about the Vaggie is an angel reveal if we didn't even get to know her as a character first? And Angel standing up to Val after 2 episodes and a song? Very frustrating to see the 180 from how realistic and helpless he was in episode 4, to suddenly being able to curse out his abuser in public like it's no big deal. THAT frustrates me as someone who has had to gently help someone out of an abusive situation. It is NOT that easy. A small victory against Val would have felt so much more appropriate and - strangely? - MORE rewarding than his big one.
On a random note, has anyone thought about what happened to Eve?
We've seen Lucifer, Adam, we've seen Lilith in family portraits, but I'm curious if the story will do anything with Eve.
She could be a cool villain in the show. Resents Lucifer and Lilith for "tricking" her. Maybe she wasn't even allowed into heaven for her part in everything.
I think the lilith Alastor parallel is an obvious distraction and Alastors soul is owned by Eve and that's how she'll become relevant
Bruh with the way Vivziepop treats her female characters let alone biblical characters I’m glad she’s forgotten about her 😭
Has anyone noticed that Alastor is "different" than he was in the pilot? It's like he got a personality revamp and went from theatrical zany gentleman who is also evil and arrogant, to mostly just evil, arrogant and petty. You could say he just dropped the act after the pilot but I really loved it and thought it made him more interesting. I wish they had kept some more of that aspect of him.
Yes!! I agree, been saying this
All of his personality was pretty much stripped away and I have no favourite characters in this show despite Keith David being in it and others, it just felt so meh
Alastor being recast didn't help either and a lot of the plot and themes of the pilot are completely gone but hey same characters you'll like it right
Uh-No
Yeah. He’s petty and surprisingly sensitive. People get under his skin easily and far too often. There are people who worked on pilot that longer work for the show. So it could be that? Or he did get revamp. This is just speculation.
I do think it’s tied back to the paving issue, like many other things. I could see a slower erosion where we see his current characteristics popping up over other interactions and events but smaller overall. Here it feels like the team really wanted to show the sadistic and ‘hellish’ parts of him but are doing it in huge burst because that’s what the 15 seconds for the scene allowed.
What are you talking about? Alastor still has so much personality. We see not only his arrogance, but also his overexpressed emotions. Normally I would be mad at something like this but it works for Alastor. Simply because we see that he is a narcissistic and sadistic gentleman, but there are certain moments where it begs the question of if we can now trust him, or if he is that good of a manipulator. So honestly I don't really see what you mean
This pacing is insane. I feel like we are already deep into the story, and we still don't really understand most of the main cast of characters. We haven't had enough time to watch them interact and grow as individuals, so when they make major changes it feels unearned. Major plot points are almost being treated like speed bumps, important characters having no time to interact with the cast and are more plot points than anything. This show needs like twice as many episodes.
I find most shows do this nowadays, and why I wasn't very happy to hear they were taken up by prime. Like, They shouldn't have gone to heaven until season 2. Show us the struggle, the redemption arches, side plots, character building!!!! LITERALLY ANYTHING!!! They had so much to work with, a whole fandom waiting and blooming with ideas. And this is what they do?
I made the choice of waiting until episode 6 to watch the whole series in one sitting and man, any sense of progress or serious plot the show wants to add , i cannot take it seriously because of how it jumps everywhere the next episode, Angel's episode was so good by itself but when you watch it full with the others it feels super empty , it doesnt feel earned because angel also starts to be a good person out of nowhere, ofc he's not a bad guy but it happens so fast i feel like i was watching a 25 episode series by jumping between episodes
If anything the only way i can describe this show is like viv wanted to make a musical but also a tv show so they couldn't decide, most episodes work if you think of them as a musical but at other times it genuinely tries to be a TV show so is just a darn chaos all around, alastor caring about the hotel is not that out of character if he's really following lilith's orders but like anything else it feels like we're missing crucial development or episodes inbetween
I would have loved an episode entirely dedicated to Charlie and Vaggie’s relationship. Something happening in the present while we get flashbacks to Charlie healing Vaggie, them falling in love, and how their relationship progressed, then give us the dramatic reveal that she’s an angel.
THIS!!!!!
a wet floor has more romantic chemistry with the yellowstone national park than vaggie and charlie have with each other. if they weren't an established couple i think shippers would be grasping at straws. an episode of backstory, or a date, or ANYTHING that shows chemistry is REQUIRED for these "main characters" because for a show more focused on "female stories" than helluva boss (something i feel vivsie only said to get rid of misogyny allegations) it sure has shafted them.
@@gennabella I mean, most women have some level of internalised misogyny at some point in their life tbh, so I wouldn’t want to be too harsh on her
Yeah I thought charlie would actually know that veggie was angel so we getting no moments what so ever the veggie is hiding Hiding a secret from charlie that she angel cause the show dosent do a good job qt hiding it I also thought it was already conform that she was angel and it wasn't a spoilers at all but hey maybe that was just me
this whole series feels like a students paper only listing the key moments in the story
It’s a stage musical. Aka singing with only a bare story to get you from song to song.
@@mzaitelike shrek or the heathers?
@@PokeNarutard More like Book Of Mormon, or Wicked, Or Avenue Q when it just gets novelty Sweary.
That's a good description of describing it lol.
It feels like it's specifically made to shit on people who do nothing but complain about "filler"
Viv's projects very much fall into the "accept them flr what they are" category. Hazbin and Helluva Boss have some absolutely amazing moments sandwiched inbetween pure crap. They are shows that you throw on and don't think about too hard. If you just go with the speed, clap at the great moments, and glaze over the flaws, you'll have a great time. This is a perfect show to make fanfiction for - it's got all the pieces to play with.
It pretty much bullet points a cool story for a fanfiction. I hope some people get inspired to write what a longer season would have looked like.
Perfect description
One thing that stuck out to me in the courtroom scene was when the extermination was revealed. Charlie said something along the lines of "Look they're at each other's throats!" like that's what she was hoping for. It ties back to that thing in the first episode where she acknowledges that Hell might revolt against Heaven.
Those little things make it seem like she WANTS a fight w/ Heaven, or at least for Heaven to crumble. Yet we're constantly being told that she wants peace and harmony. They're showing us one thing while telling us another.
I feel like this season just should have focused on redeeming serpentus and angledust while going up against the Vee's
Yeah. And then, when it seems like one of them is getting to go to heaven, they’d be faced with the grueling reality when the angels show up.
True
That feels like an arc for a season that has 18 episodes instead of 8. XD
Would've loved to actually have that build up. Very sad we didn't get it. This season has just felt like a pilot-extension, as in everything is practically thrown at us without a real focus because we only have so much time to showcase everything we want to showcase.
Agree completely have Serpentus and Angle dust be the primary focus while Alastors feud with Vox is in the back. End the season with either Lucifer coming to the hotel or Adam revealing that actually they have no interest in redeeming souls and that they just want to kill people.
Charlie and Lucifer just strikes me as a poor mans version of Stolas and Octavia. I never even got the impression she felt estranged from her father, just intimidated by his position a little and desperate to prove she didn't need his authority to succeed. Which she has now gone back on. Even in the flashbacks, he was happy to spend time with her, it was the mother who pulled her away, he didn't send her away. Also Lucifer being bumbling dad was fine, I just expected him to be doing more with his time than making rubber ducks.
I don't see "bumbling" with Lucifer honestly. I see deeply broken. The depression callout, the lonely hyperfixation, the isolation that speaks of a deep-seated grief... the trauma of being Original Sin... I think there's a lot more there than just "oops forgot to dad LMAO". He's really excited and happy to see Charlie in the flashback and sad but accepting of Lilith taking her away. Almost as if he sees himself as not fit to be a father.
It does give a bit of a mix of Stolas and Blitz issues tho.
They touch on it in the first ep, Lucifer lost his creativity, so all he can think to do is make rubber ducks
They touch on it in the first ep, Lucifer lost his creativity, so all he can think to do is make rubber ducks
Yeah, the rubber ducks were... disappointing.
Nah they seem pretty different, Stolas is more genuinely sympathetic, Lucifer is still just....well Lucifer lol. Their issues seem different and it didn`t involve her father being in a affair. He didn`t seem to try to reach out to her much though.
I've seen more character development in a single episode of MLP FIM than the entire season of Hazbin Hotel so far.
yeah.
Brutal
Imagine if the first scene was Charlie finding vaggie instead of the narration and Adam threatened the reveal after hell is forever
Despite the fact Lucifer thinks Charlie's idea is impossible, I'm so relieved that he's not another horrible father character, in fact he's the opposite of that and he's protective to Charlie. So I guess Lucifer, Joe, Blitz, and Stolas are the only good fathers in the franchise despite their flaws.😊💕
Joe, I agree. Blitzo and Stolas, though...
@@valentinkambushev4968 I guess they both have problems, but they still care for their daughters.
Blitz and Stolas are more “complicated” but the love they have for their daughters is there.
@@toadlord8594 Yeah! In Blitz's defense, his trauma could have made him act like a bitter and mean father to Loona. Is he a bit of an a-hole? Yeah, but he's trying to be a good father.
Same with Stolas. He could have been awful to Octavia because she's the reason he had to marry Stella, but instead he tries his best to also be a good father. Neither of them are perfect, but they're trying their best despite their circumstances
@@Lulu_Loves_Sheep Stolas still turned his "day in the park" with Octavia into a chance to flirt with his imp lover, in front of her, by the way.
I feel like "it's just a series of Moments" describes it perfectly. I'm gonna be super hypocritical and say that I adored Emily's short screentime, and I felt like her song said a lot about her character, but I definitely find it hard to care about anything because the show hasn't nearly earned it. Everything feels so disjointed that it almost feels like the cliffnoted show we're getting really is all that was written, and each individual scene was created by itself with little thought on any of the scenes around it. I still love to see the characters, and the moments we get are wonderful in theory, but the show as a whole with the garbage pacing is still arguably bad. I hate saying that, but it is, and it's not fair that they didn't get more episodes to flesh such an interesting story out. We should really be louder about these complaints or more shows will end up as cliffnoted as this one. It's not fair to us and it's not fair to the Hazbin team.
I agree people need to be more outspoken about this. I frequent the Hazbin Hotel Reddit and almost all that I see is praise and very little critique considering the massive problem this show has with pacing and character development. I mean, how is that going to help anything to improve?
I know what to spend my 50k on.
the pacing is seriously the worst aspect. i genuinely enjoy the show, but the emotional parts aren't hitting as hard as they should because of how quickly they're happening. like in ep 4 we'd only had maybe 20 or 30 mins total of seeing angel in prev eps and then it immediately goes into an intense scene, but we aren't properly attached to him yet so it feels impersonal even if it was emotional/shocking
i can see what they're going for, but it's basically like a speedrun. should've def gotten at least 16 eps, but because of how often shows are cancelled nowadays i assume that's why they tried to fit everything into 8 (iirc they didn't know they were approved for a 2nd season until they'd finished making the 1st). hopefully the 2nd season has better pacing since they know they have an audience now. i feel like the newest 2 eps were a lot better in terms of pacing. it just sucks since as you said, the concept and story are good
This is written like how I think about and never written my OCS stories XD
I was one of those people crying in episode 5, 5 really got me hyped XD
If I'm being honest the pacing hasn't been as much of an issue for me as it has for others, sure I notice some weirdness with it, ep 3 was the one that suffered from it the most I feel. But Overall it hasn't ruined my enjoyment. I do think they should've gotten at least 12-16 episodes though for season 1 just so that it wouldn't be an issue. It's weird seeing amazon give Hazbin the same treatment as longer runtime shows like Invincible, which also had 8 episodes but more time within those episodes. Does feel like they kinda shot it in the foot and ordered it to run a marathon.
This show feels like fanfiction of the pilot. Its assuming you have already watched the pilot and that you have all the background knowledge about the world and characters that was told to you by the show runners on twitter or during convention panels over the last 4 years. The most interesting things in the show I know only because someone quoted a interview instead of the show showing me in the story. If you watch this show working with only the information it gives you, you have no reason to care about the characters or know what is happening. The mystery around Alastor is honestly the only thing keeping the plot interesting. I'm so glad someone pointed out that Alastor and Charlie haven't had a conversation once since the pilot. Alastor wanting to be there for reasons other than it being a simple whim is so interesting if they showed that being a thing at any other point in the season.
The biggest perk of the show as it stands is that its all set up for fanworks and fantheory. Its all potential energy. I can think of several really cool directions to take the whole Dad fight between Lucifer and Alastor. Yet, I can't imagine a reality right now where I'd see the show following through anything meaningfully. I'd rather go to AO3 and see what others can do with the concept.
My only real problem with this show is that its so very fast paced, and we know why, its because they only got 8 episodes, which really upsets me, i really love all the characters and wished they all got time to shine, but I understand what the team had to do just to fit the actual story into 8 episodes
As much as I do love the silly dad trope, I generally do wish that Lucifer was a little more sinister and actually be “disappointed” in Charlie, like it was implied in the pilot. With him and Lilith both being more of tough love parents overall. But Lilith be the more supportive compared to Lucifer.
That very well could have been the case; but he's Pride itself. His woman left him, which damaged his pride; and he was too prideful to reach out to his daughter. It's also Charlie's biggest flaw, especially in the ep 6 song where she jumps on the orb with the Seraphim and starts commenting on causing people to fight and how that's a good thing. It absolutely wasn't a good thing, that she caused dissention among the angels. It's the exact same thing Lucifer did. She is literally doing what Lucifer did, and the path to hell is paved in good intentions. The only outcome is Adam and the good seraphim becoming Fallen; his sidekick is probably going to get unalived by Vaggy with an angelic weapon as retaliation for taking her eye and wings.
I feel like they also wanted to try making the twist that Lucifer was actually the 'good guy' and Lilith being the 'villain' with the trailer but didn't put enough thought in putting the right implications in the trailers.
Pacing was horrendous, I felt the first few episodes were extremely disappointing and they were redeemed in 4,5,6. They are going to make or break the series with the finale 100%. That being said, Helluva Boss has way better character development by far.@@DeletingAddiction
Yeah same, I run with the goofy dad trope but I feel like he could be more malicious and a bit charming like Alastor, while still retaining that awkwardness he had when he was alone. I feel like that could’ve made the ending work better and make it seem a bit more meaningful.
i loved his smug design that it feels like missed potential. He should have been shown more prideful and charismatic too (which we saw glimpses of like at the beginning of his song), even if its a façade, and having incredible powers just that he keeps latent just below the surface (the fact that he took all that disrespect from Alastor, as King of Hell, and didn't at least show his capacity to easily destroy him, felt wrong).
Charlie and Emily have more chemistry together in one episode, than Charlie and Vaggie for entire series. Also, was anyone even suprissed that Vaggie is an angel? This theory is as old as the pilot episode.
My friend who didn’t watch the pilot was surprised! So that’s one person.
Minute I saw this gray and white character in a cast of pink and red I immediately knew Vaggie’s identity. She stood out too much in a sea of Vivzie abusing the color red and had almost no information about her personal story lol
I mean… her backstory has been in the works before even the Pilot. It’s taken a long time for the story to come to screen and it has given us time to figure it out but Viv is going to tell the story she had planned.
Well, her wiki says that's she's a Sinner/Moth demon and she committed suicide. So my guess Viv needed to retcon that to shut up the fans. Also yeah Charlie and Vaggie still has zero chemistry.
I wasn't surprised but I really hoped that wouldn't be the case. Vivz has said how Vaggie is a moth demon/sinner who came from our late 2000's era. The pilot even showed angel weapons are collected which would explain why Vaggie had one (since her still having it now makes no sense if she was outcast). It was all there for Vaggie NOT to be a angel.
But no.. recon again by Vivz just because. "BD
it feels like every episode they have to this point should also have another episode with the same exact things but just fillers in between everything. also it made me realize how important filler actually is😂
Its not that it needs more episodes, its that the creator needed to appropriately pace what she had and cut some things down
Thank you! If they cut all of the Heaven content and saved it as a hook for season 2 and made the show just about the hotel, with The Vees being the primary antagonists none of the pacing issues would exist. They were given more run time than a movie, they just failed to use it.
Considering there’s already a season2, I heavily hope it’s much longer in comparison, they need more time to work with
I imagine it will be, cause for even with the flaws this show has, it’s still stupid popular and has mostly gotten great reviews . And that’s really all Amazon cares about
Yeah season 1 has been going WAY too fast, we don’t even know Jack about Carmine, y’know, THE FIRST DEMON IN HELL TO KILL AN ANGEL.
Well there doing the best they can with the budget they have
I think it needs more episodes and time it popular yeah but if you keep boxing them in it just won’t work.
Same, A24 probably only gave Vivziepop only 8 episodes.
This show is like the scene at the end of Seeing Stars where Loona and Octavia just sit down and talk to eachother... comfortably. They have an emotional moment but there was absolutely NO build-up to it whatsoever. They make it seem like the two of them have been friends for life but they literally just met.
Hazbin Hotel (and some parts of Helluva Boss) wants to have those memorable snap shots of emotional, tear-jerking scenes but they don't put in any effort into the characters and their lives to make those scenes work. We need to know who you are before we see you crying.
Introduce us to the status quo and then explain why they're like this. Nothing about Charlie's character makes me think she's got daddy issues. She's just an overly polite girl who's running a hotel and then we're supposed to believe she's got problems because of a few throw-away lines
This is the classic fanfic writing problem I tried to warn everyone about back in the day. Putting feels over everything makes the feels less impactful.
EXACTLY!! People need to understand that """filler""" episodes are necessary. Now, I am not talking about Naruto kind filler where we have a side story that is never even brought back up, but filler in the sense that the episode does not need to advance the story foward; it can be just an episode to establish characters and relantioships. The emotional bits work when we care for the characters, when we care for the bonds they have. And for us to care, we need to see them being fleshed out more *outside* of the main story.
@@ChildOfCosmos I wouldn't even call that filler, it's just establishing necessary behavior. Filler is when we already experienced their behavior enough and nothing would be lost if it was cut. In Hazbin Hotel we never even see the main story. (People being redeemed by the hotel). That needs to happen at least one to three times for it to be considered the main theme, as the show advertises. The filler is everything to do with the war and irrelevant characters unrelated to the hotel. Every other plot thread should've been cut and POV changes to separate plots are a no for this kind of story.
@@lunalee3021 Yeah, that's why I put in between a lot of quotes. I guess a more suitable term would be episodic?/gen
@@ChildOfCosmos Yeah... The sad thing is I predicted viziepop would do this (shoot herself in the foot with tangents and irrelevant OCs) because she doesn't have much self control. She does the fun part of making up ideas and never does the work. This is reflected in everything from the character designs to writing.
I feel like the Carmila part is here to give us a glimpse when we finally are in Heaven, because Sera act just like Camilia. "We got to focus to protect ourselves and those we care about". It is to show that Camilia and Sera are basically the same, they are ready to kill to protect those they love.
Alistor in ep 1-4: “smile smile entertain voodoo”
Alistor in ep 5: “Johnny, Johnny yes papa”
I feel like the additional budget made Vivzie and team feel more ambitious and wanted to explore more about Hell and the grander story, meanwhile forgetting the hotel that was core of the pilot.
We shall see how this season ends but realistically I can see it be they want to be able to tell their story with the time they had. Which was 8 episodes. So try to get into the "juicy" stuff before their time is up because S2 was never a guarantee. It just has lead to a poorly paced show but who knows what shall happen with S2.
Just like the sudden shift in focus with Helluva : (
Yeah... It seems like all this stuff is interesting but surely something couldve been left out or saved for a second season while creating a comvlusive show. So many plot point being added and then resolved very quickly.
I think it's a mark of insecure writing when you have a load of great moments, but you're worried the audience will get bored if you don't get them quickly. Even with eight episodes, why not save them for season 2?
I'll be honest. I think even with a smaller budget they were always going to do that. I think she always wanted to explore all this
I’m gonna pray the A24 Gives them a lot more episodes for a second season because you can tell the writers and team behind Hazbin care a ton but arnt being giving the time to do it
ok it was really quick and I almost missed it but in EP 5 charlie says the extermination is in a few months and then in EP 6 adam says see you in a month as in the extermination is in a month so it seems there are quite a few time skips in between eps so theoretically angle did have time to be sober for a bit but I do understand that the main problem is that we didn't actually see him do that.
The writers really should have internalized the phrase 'less is more'
That and show not tell.
Yeah, I always kept telling myself why are there so many characters if there are only 8 episodes. I feel like the crew should have stuck to 40 mins of runtime or add credits scene kinda like how Gravity falls or The owl house did
Despite the pacing, episode 6 is currently my favorite episode just because of this joke from Pentious.
"Because...I'm having sex with everyone here!"
It is genuinely the first time where I laughed so hard when watching this show in its six current episodes. It was perfectly set up for that scene, and given he said it three times with the first two being alcohol.
The lead-up to that joke was also golden
Yeah it's literally the best joke in the entire show LMAOOO
Amazing setup and payoff
Random group of demons----- "O so you like sex huh" xD
tbh my biggest thing w the show that saddens me is they always have a good IDEA to what dynamics/stories I'd like. The idea of Alastor being sort of a father in Charlie's life? Love it. I wished it was built up more. Especially since Mimzy implies hes a 'sweetie', I would have loved to see it between him and Charlie. or at the very least heavily hinted. Make Alastor more willing to help Charlie in comparison to others, maybe even do it without her knowledge and show us he does it behind her back. The moment where he tells Mimzy to leave? It was nice. Conceptually, like. if you isolate the scene and imagine Alastor being kind/favorable to her beforehand.
Also like, something else that bugs me is there's set-up in some episodes that make sense? Like, again Mimzy saying Alastor is actually a nice dude... you would expect the episode to actually. show us that. and then in 2 minutes or less they show us hes not actually 'sweet' and she calls him a heartless asshole later?? idk. im just lost. they did the same thing in episode 3 w Vaggie and her trust. its just confusing to me.
Tbf Mimzy is not really a reliable source of information. We dont know for sure if her comment about alastor was true because she was clearly putting on a fake "nice girl" act to everyone and showed her true colors at the end by being a bitch who just wanted to exploit alastor's power.
The one thing that pisses me off is Alastor eating souls infront of Charlie and she doesn't care.
That's her whole motivation, for that to not happen. It's very strange.
Actually, was it explained anywhere? In theory, sinners can't be killed in hell, they will just regenerate... But I don't know how about souls being eaten, does it kill them? Only angels weapons up until now could, but I don't even remember if it was said in the show, or around it...
as someone who recently got into this show, its honestly really good. i like the story, despite it having some obvious plotholes and breakneck pacing, its enjoyable. you criticizing it makes me feel sad, cause you have good points! and i hate you for that! you have made me conscious of things i didnot want to be conscious of and now i will not be able to live in gleeful ignorance. still a fun show though
I was really hoping they weren’t going to do the cliche of Charlie being shocked and hurt by the obvious secret. I was honestly expecting her to reveal she had always known and just hadn’t cared; after all her mission is to see the best in people and believe they can change, hell Vaggie could’ve even been made into a motivating factor if Charlie had always known. If Angels can change for the better, so can everyone.
I'm still hoping they subvert it and Charlie has always known. I mean cmon; 3rd most powerful presence in Hell. Surely, SURELY she can sense the difference in angelic vs demonic presence? I mean I am 95% sure Husker clocked it and 98% sure Alastor has.
Right! If they don’t subvert it then the writer’s really make Charlie way too naive and honestly a little unintelligent. Vaggie was wearing her uniform and had wounds on her back right after Extermination Day. I think Charlie would have been able to put two and two together.
It aslo doesn’t really make sense for Vaggie to hide the fact that she’s an angel from Charlie because Charlie believes that people can change. Yes, her opinions or Heaven would probably changed early on but at least it proves her right. She would have absolutely accepted Vaggie and still love her all the same.
@@CactusDictator-dx8iebecause Vaggie is probably afraid of how Charlie would’ve reacted cause she’s seen how the exterminators are? Husk says Vaggie hates herself, and she’s definitely feels guilt for her actions. Vaggie was probably be afraid she would lose someone who she cares for.
@@CactusDictator-dx8iealso based on the clip in the video, it looked like Vaggie WASN’T in her uniform. Charlie probably just assumed she got injured during the extermination
The beginning of "Hell is Forever" really sums up the show's pacing for me.
"Ok I have a lot to get through and not a lot of time and I feel like you weren't hearing me the first time so hear goes AHEM
🎶I know hell's population is out of control-"
I thought that was just a gag, but now I realize it’s actually the writers making fun of their limitations.
I believe that the writers are well aware of the pacing issues - it’s just that they aren’t being allowed to anything about them: the corporate execs tell them everything that they need to put into the show and then say “figure it out” when the writers tell them they aren’t being given enough air time to play with.
That said, in spite of the pacing issues, this show is doing a phenomenal job at making the characters relatable and endearing us to them: it’s the best character writing you can have when the team is working under pressure.
Ffs the whole show has the almighty omnipotent sky daddy as the Ultimate issue too