Citroen e-C4 & Peugeot e-208 new vs old charging curve
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 08. 2021
- Get 30 day free Premium trial on ABRP by using referral code "Teslabjorn":
abetterrouteplanner.com/ref/t...
Get 20 % discount (also works on discounted prices) when ordering from Stormberg online by using discount code "Teslabjorn" (only ships to Norway, Sweden and Finland):
www.stormberg.com/no/kampanje...
Kempower make awesome EV chargers:
kempower.com/teslabjorn/
Want to sell your Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/selge-bilen/?utm...
Want to buy a Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/biler-til-salgs/...
Leasing a Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/leasing/?...
MisterGreen EV leasing:
mstr.gr/bjornnyland
Results from my range tests, banana box tests and other goodies here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Main folder with everything:
drive.google.com/open?id=1HOw...
ScanMyTesla app for showing battery temperature, etc:
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
/ scanmytesla
www.e-mobility-driving-soluti...
www.e-mobility-driving-soluti...
The OBD dongle I use in Tesla, Leaf, Ioniq, e-Niro, e-Soul, i3, ID3/ID4 (Android only):
www.obdlink.com/products/obdl...
My Artlist playlist:
artlist.io/mycollection/24628...
Most of my music is from Artlist.io. If you sign up for one year and use my referral link, you will get two months free:
artlist.io/Bjørn-42729
Donation links:
streamlabs.com/bjrnnyland
/ teslabjorn
My live channel:
/ teslabjornlive24
Teslabjørn Discord server:
/ discord
Reduce food waste and get great deals on food:
toogoodtogo.no/ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Fantastic to see the difference. Its huge in my opinion. Corsa-e is currently getting the update to the latter charging profile from Opel.
But how they update the charging profile?
@@dylanza You must go to a dealership (it is free for the user, at least here in Spain). The process takes about ~3hours if everything goes well or 1-2 days if some thing goes wrong and the dealer must retry the process. Even there are several Corsa-e units have been "totally bricked" around Europe, and then a PSA engineer must upload the firmware manually to the car, procedure which may take 1-3 weeks to be done. My unit was upgraded flawlessly in 3 hours :)
Ok thanks I will do it
Good to know that charging up to 80% can get yourself a quick break of 7 min compared to before. It's a good thing that manufacturers can update/tweak the way of charging afterwards.
Has this been changed via over-the-air formware for the older cars as well? Or do the older cars need to hit the workshop to be updated?
@@TheDanishSpaceman I've read from owners of the Stellantis cars they need to get back to the garage for the update. Only the garage can provide you with an update. So it is not over the air like Tesla.
Thanks for your videos. I did decided to adquire the eC4
Thanks for a interesting video!
Thanks for the info Bjorn. 👏👏👏
Wow!!! PSA did good job, so upade will be good gift for all PSA ev models :-)
Huge update and definitely makes these cars practical for longer trips. Also makes the PSA cars best in class by far amongst small cars and SUVs. Even much faster than base VW ID.3, for example.
True, nice car if you get the good price...
@@mjk8019 Base ID3 has 50 kW charging only. Can't be faster than 100 kW.
For the id.3 baae it might definitely be something to choose between but vs the 58kw netto battery id.3 its not an intresting choice. The Citroën has a 45 netto battery so it will definitely charge faster because there is les to charge.
I didnt even think of buying them while I love the looks e208, but thought is was to small and not enough range whole the 2008 is bigger but even less range.
@@remco6816 Base ID3 has 45 kWh battery with 50 kW charging. Short range and lower charging than Citroen C4.
@@remco6816 Id3 pure has 45kwh net, and charges at only 50kw 😂.(just slightly less expensive the ec4) MG ZS is still a budget king...
Nice! THX!
Is there anything i can do to upgrade my e-c4, Shine Plus, 1 phase, from dec 2020 to the new ccs charging curve/set up (bought in Copenhagen at Andersen & Martini oct. 2022, imported from Spain, 21.000km?
do you think they can give the e-208 the new curve with a software update?
also....you should re-test the e-208
While the ninja dude have a gut feeling I assume the limbo dude has a but feeling ? Yes, good stuff this improvement. I assume the e-208 have to be manually upgraded to get this curve ?
Thanks for the video! Fair to notice not only the difference in losses (80% in 38 and 40kwh), but also how close are low and high voltages: 400 and 448v, ratio is just 1.12. Normal nmc battery goes 4.2 to 3.2v with 1.31 ratio where most of the energy comes almost linearly btw 4.1 and 3.4, ratio of 1.21. So after all the buffers they use only ~69% of max capacity (this is between 4.2 and 3.2, if we count more safe 4.1 to 3.4 then we get 77%)... wow, such a battery should stay robust way beyond 1000 cycles and up to 10 years at minimum.
Though I would prefer to have higher capacity like tesla does...
I do not know how you saw voltages, but 2% display SoC is 369v and 100% display SoC is 446v, which corresponds to 3.41v and 4.13v cell voltages. There is not much usable energy left at the bottom as voltage goes down very quick down there, but there is some energy buffer on top (if I remember correctly 100% SoC with older firmware was at 449v)
@@angeldominguez4993 thanks for the info, sounds consistent. I was judging by what I've seen in Bjørns video, where 10% is shown as 400v. Surely I had to assume that this is not the gauge voltage but recalculated stabilized one given how simple the adjustment it is to be done (this is basically what percentage is based on, with account of current output v, amperage, temperature and estimated degradation).
Ok, that means not too much of redundancy...
@@EugeneHoochie Cell voltage must be read at stationary state (not charging). For charging you need to raise it for current to flow to the cells (actually it is the BMS the one that claims for that voltage) and you have to raise it further if you want faster charging. For example, you state 400v at 10% SoC, but in the video it is shown as 404v at 99kW charging (old curve) and 397v in the new curve charging at similar speed. Also I have read in my car recently 376v at that 10% SoC stationary, 386v charging at 125A (50kW fast charger) and several months ago I also read 389v charging at 125A (old curve)
We can bet 350 km range for new astra e and 308 e
No Stormberg Shirt!!!!! :-)
If i calculate the e-C4 capacity for charging it is 100/88*38,2kWh = 47,75kWh. In the range test you are saying the capacity is only 40,9kWh! What is the difference? I know there is a difference between charging and discharging but more than 15% difference is to much, i think. The old e208 charging curve has exactly the same charging capacity (47,5kWh) and there was stated that the usable capacity of the car was 45kWh
The difference is that you mix up energy delivered by the charger vs what you get out from it when driving. There are losses in charging + discharging that you didn't count.
Hi Bjorn. PSA car have an update again, increasing curve charge, energy management also. I did a 7% to 90% in 32 minutes. That was really fast. Can you found a 2022 psa car or updated psa car to verify ? :)
I have an e-208 from july 2021 and I managed to get 6 to 90% in 32 minutes as well (with 28 °C outside and hammering a lot before charging). Maybe Bjorn's result is a matter of slightly lower battery temperature. From my experience I can tell that I saw many different charging curves basing on the conditions, it seems that the bms has been calibrated using a lot of thresholds points.
So if I understand correctly. I can upgrade my 208 to get the benefits of this charge curve? Or does Peugeot do it automatically? Great vid, thank you!
Same question. My dealer told me to bring my e-208 in for a software upgrade in a few weeks and I wasn't too bothered about it, but if it will bring an improved charging curve I'm much more interested!
Same boat here. I've got my first service coming up in the next few months, hopefully that will include this upgrade, very nice!
This software upgrade needs to be done at your garage.
In France, and surely in other countries, it’s a mandatory update so every car will get this improvement the next time you will bring it to your garage.
Your dealer will do it for you. If all things go well it takes 3h. For Corsa-e many things went seriously wrong while updating so they stopped the update for a while. Not sure if they resumed it already or will do within the next weeks
@@davidschlenker8260 do you know of any other improvements for the new software other than the charging curve?
Yes time is shorter. But E-208 get more kw/h ? Bigger battery ? (Longer time)
*kWh
Superb comparation! BTW - according these dashboards the C4-e battery capacity is 42,5 kwh(instead your 40.5) and 208-e has 44,45 kwh. So where is the truth about C4 ? :-)
That's nominal capacity you can achieve in a lab. My numbers are based on real world results of what you can actually get out of the battery.
Can you set a charging limit on this car? 80%?
Have they hidden more capacity as top buffer? That could explain the smaller capacity in e-C4 vs. e-208 and also the faster charge at high SoC in e-C4
Bottom buffer.
@@bjornnyland Actually analyzing voltage of both charges through the video (at different SoCs with the same charging rate) it seems they added buffer on top (and that would explain having regen at 100% SoC) and reduced buffer at botton (and that's maybe why you get turtle mode at 2% when you did not get it before until 0% SoC). The regen you get now at 100% SoC is the one you had previously at 97%
Voltage is higher if charging power is higher. The only way to measure voltage correctly is to stop charging and have no or low load on the car and check in OBD tool.
@@bjornnyland Yes that would be ideal, but if charging rate and voltage are the same and only difference is 3% SoC, you may guess that they moved SoC scale at some extent ;) It is noticeable several times in the video at SoCs below 50%
Bjorn, but that speed bump - wasn't it (also) because this eC4 can utilize only 40kwh from battery instead of 45kwh??
Not really. It charges really quick at the bottom.
In the range test video you mentioned 40.9 vs 45 kwh capa for eC4 vs e208. But here from 10 to 90 % both show that's for the same 38 kwh meaning 100% = 38/0.8 = 47.5 usable kwh. Any explanation? Thanks.
Did you look at energy delivered from the charger? There's some loss between the charger and what actually goes into the battery. And when you discharge it (driving it), you also lose some.
@@bjornnyland yes i looked on the 2 screens. You started with e208 a bit earlier but i deduced the 2 kwh at start. I understand the losses etc. But since these are the same eCMP platform they should have same bat capacity and losses. Only weight aerodynamic are different. Or maybe BMS and bat buffer different. That's the question. Thanks.
@@bjornnyland Just my two cents here, but I think we should not count battery discharge losses when we are calculating battery useable capacity in kWh? Charger to battery losses yes.
@@philippeschmauch4835 Now average cell voltage at the new 100% SoC is 4.13v (they increased top buffer), but also the new 40.9kWh usable capacity measure is for 96% of SoC. If we counted 100% SoC it would be more like 42.6kWh, but Bjørn states that as the car displays no GoM range (---), that SoC is not usable by average driver John Doe. And also DC charging at higher speed is more inefficient than charging at a lower speed
@@bjornnyland tak for turen i Bimmeren ved mit gamle hood ved Flensburg. Bor nu på Lolland. Tror du (eller andre herinde) det er muligt at opdatere BMS i min ë-C4 Shine Plus fra december 2020 - købt brugt i september 2022, 21.000 km, importeret fra Spanien - sådan at den også kan få NEW CHARGING CURVE?
Does the e-C4 really get 40 kWh netto compared to around 44 kWh netto out of the other PSA cars?
Same for all Stellantis cars.
@@bjornnyland i just noticed that the netto capacity was stated differently in the chart at the end of the range test but maybe I didnt look carefully enough... :)