A Sci-Fi Bullpup Battle Rifle from Black Rain Ordnance?
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- čas přidán 21. 01. 2023
- Black Rain Ordnance is typically known for their custom ARs and eye-catching Cerakote jobs, but they also had one of the most innovative new products of SHOT Show this year. The Commando rifle is a new bullpup battle rifle chambered in full power battle rifle cartridges like .308 Winchester and 6.5 Creedmoor. Attention was paid to ergonomics and controls, and keeping the overall system weight down. It's still early in production, but this is definitely one to watch.
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#TFBTV #SHOTShow2023 - Věda a technologie
Comment from Craig "Sawman" Sawyer responding to some comments and questions in this thread:
“To meet the unique, harsh, multi-role demands of the Spec Ops Sniper mission, this platform was engineered over 8 yrs to focus on:
Quality, reliability under adverse (filthy) conditions, multi-functionality & simplicity.
No corners are being cut in advancing the best metallurgy, composites & ergonomics.
OS = entirely new hybrid (proprietary)
New 4-lug bolt design.
Side-charged, non-reciprocating, collapsed handle
Bolt hold & release function also incorporated into the ambi-selector lever with auto bolt release upon insertion of a loaded mag, unless overridden by pushing upward on the safety.
Left-handed versions will be offered.
Eject direction = downward & forward w/ modular ejection port shroud. Rifle can be shot left, or right-handed without conflict.
Composite chassis, optional DMR assembly for buttstock.
Accepts AR mags & pistol grips.
These 4 rifles shown were initial prototypes. Several patents pending. Torture testing will be done by DOD contract engineering firm & RDT&E units from U.S. mil service branches.
All engineering design will be turned over to Black Rain Ord to set them up to manufacture the rifles for various contracts & QC.
All popular calibers from .50BMG down to .223 are in the works with .308 first for prototyping simplicity.
Expected distribution: Q1 of 2024 at competitive pricing to be set by Black Rain Ord.
Thanks for posting this. It brings some much-needed clarity. 👍
This rifle was created as a radical departure from the norms of current rifle designs. To change the way weapons of war are made here forward. What do I mean? I'll explain.
Our warfighters are using tools that were not made for modern combat. Too long, too big and bulky, lack range and power, heavy, unergonomic, unreliable, or a combination of thereof. We need a new design for the future. Like the AR became, so will this. Yes, unconventional and a departure from the norm, like the Eugene Stoner's used to be. We wanted to build something to change the problems and failures of modern weapons...so we did.
This rifle is made lighter, shorter and stronger. It does not suffer from the inadequacies of the AR bolt, or the poor triggers plaguing bullpups. Design from the ground up to have a good trigger and unbelievable strength to allow for modern high pressure cartridges, better effectiveness as a long range precision rifle. I mean, why not have a weapon capable of all the above? Small and light enough to clear a building, powerful enough for anti-material purposes, and accurate enough to give us the advantage in modern long range combat. Why does a compact design have to be inaccurate? It doesn't.
Starting with one of the shortest actions made, we could move everything back and give it incredible balance and fast handling. That usually makes a weapon bulky and difficult to control and work. So over all the years Craig and I have been working on this, you paid attention to what the warfighter wants and needs, and because we lacked the constraints of larger companies that have current designs they had to work with, we could develop this thing from the ground up.
It's less than 1.5" wide, in line driven, compact and perfectly balanced. Lightweight without sacrificing strength, and very low recoil. How? We paid attention.
Think about it. If you didn't have to use a current existing platform, couldn't you come up with some serious improvements and change things for the better? Of course you could! So that's what we did.
As an engineer, I learned to build bridges, not burn them. So we made connections, hired and Incorporated those that had better stuff and we could come up with, and put together an incredible team. I believe it's what most of us would do if we had the chance. This community doesn't need more division; so let's all come together and build better things!
I am proud to be working with such a legend of a Christian and man as Craig. He's out this team together and we have been inspired to build better tools that could save lives of our brothers in arms. It's a beautiful, Godly inspired thing. I can't wait until you all can see what we do, and experience this rifle for the first time. Let us show you what we got. It does take time to put a whole new rifle together, but it's worth it!
@@anthonypienkowski3845I’m looking forward to the torture tests & capex demos. That’ll cut through a lot of the pre-conceived notions, stereotypes & paradigms observers tend to come up with until they learn more. This is an exciting project. 🇺🇸
Additional info on this rifle. (Segment starts at about 6:00 min:) ✅
czcams.com/video/BumasT1B0pg/video.html
@@anthonypienkowski3845 You guys are amazing! I can't wait for this Rifle. I hope to be one of the first in line when it goes public. I admire your genius my friend.
(Will you guys experiment with a 26" .308 barrel design for distance testing?)
The best part of this was watching Hop’s face repeatedly alternate between looking like his soul was dying and trying to hold back laughter.
😂😂
The face that makes you wonder, "Is this guy buying any of this bs I'm saying???"
He deserves a medal for treating these guys as seriously as he did.
😭😭
@@OriginalEric I could not have kept as straight as face as he did.
I love Bullpups and I even found this to be cringe.
Cool gun, but my man did the average vet bro thing and said nothing but buzzwords for damn near 4 minutes straight
That guy is a total fucking tool made me lose interest real quick. And that's sad considering I have 2 black rains already
That's because this is basically a press release.
@@beardly0121 yea, this is shit. Nobody is going to buy this.
random buzzwords are BRO's entire business
It's roid Pasco, a well known pistolero in the gun community.
WE'RE CHANGING THE PARADIGMS
Relax dude, you built a bullpup.
Yeah, I don't see what's new with this one. Looks like any other bullpup, minimal ambi, long LOP etc
WE FIXED ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THE BULLPUP
Can lefty shoot it?
Didn't the Russians do this with the VSS and a bullpup variant of the Dragunov decades ago?
PARADIGM SHIFT 2023: Government enforced bullpups
That's like building a new sports car, but apart from the bluetooth radio, it's still what people have had since the 70's
Hop looks like apathy in human form in this clip.
I love it when a "spec ops" sniper explains what a bullpup is like no one has seen one before.
Also the fact he said "wanted something with greater reliability" then proceeded to buzzword the hell out of a prototype bulpup made me laugh, don't get me wrong, I own many a bulpup and many a conventional rifle, I prefer and love bulpups, but I would never put a high-end bulpup's reliability over that of a high-end conventional rifle, let alone for "sniping" or accurate long range shooting
I’ve never heard a special operations soldier refer to themselves as "spec ops".
And then claiming that AK is more reliable….
@@N7ZaeedMassani There is nothing inherently unreliable about a bullpup design. It's up to how the gun was designed. Now, any new gun being reliable is quite an achievement, but we really don't know how this one will turn out.
@@lucastonoli3256 There is a lot about bullpups that is inherently unreliable hence why they all have their own issues. Complicated yet faulty trigger linkages and ejection ports alone have driven plenty into the ground.
Making Hop interview all of the seal-team-vet-bros peddling expensive garbage must be torture for him
I feel so bad for Xim.
My Man Hop needs to put some Rogaine on those eyebrows
@@MachinistJohn top tier comment
If This rifle actually turns out to be good. You need to come back and delete this comment but for the most part you’re right, a lot of these guys come out there pushing garbage. Hopefully this is the shining star we’ve been looking for in a Bullpup
This guy seems like he failed out of BUDS in the first week and tells people he's the greatest SEAL of all time
Hop looked like he wanted to kick James ass for making him do that interview
He must have lost a bet or something.
If you have a tactical buzzword bingo card, you just filled it.
I like how they talk about reliability so much throughout the interview and then at the end, they still haven’t even reliability tested it yet.
Thank you! I came to the comments specifically to see if anyone else noticed this.
Personally I'm getting really sick of the "AK level of reliability" argument when I've seen plenty of tests showing the AR base prevailing because its system is sealed vs the open system of the AK. I can only remember one instance of an AR failing, and that was because sand managed to get in the trigger. Even then flipping the safety on and off again would reset the trigger for use.
@@airplanenut89 When I hear someone say “AK reliability”, I equate it with, “I don’t want this rifle to function in harsh conditions or extended shoot schedules.” Because that’s the norm for most AKMs I have shot in high volume. Real AKMs, not imitations. AK reliability is more of a product of propaganda than anything. 5.45x39 AK-74s run much better, but the 7.62x39 guns can have lots of problems when you push them hard, depending on who made them and how much blood was in their vyodka that shift.
I like how sleek the form factor is, but i want to know how the internals provide more reliability and what kind of operating system it is.
According to tfb it’s a tri lug rotating bolt and an “impingement assisted gas piston system”
@@SpaceCadebt I'm curious if that means the system is like those Tinck Arms rifles or if they're just hiding that it's just a redesigned AR15 operating system but retains the same function
@@SpaceCadebtIt’s actually a 4 lug bolt with a new proprietary OS that’s a hybrid eliminating the issues of a direct impingement & piston systems.
"Spec-ops Navy SEAL Sniper" selling a prototype bullpup that solves all your problems, but can't expound on a single engineering feature of how... Dessert tech took over a decade to piece together the MDR and they're still working out kinks. The possibility of this being functional, let alone good are almost zero. Just the LOP alone is red flags all over. That trigger bar has to be almost 18" long. There's a reason most bullpups try to keep the grip close to the mag/ action. No mention of adjustable gas system, and how you would headspace the bolt if the barrel/ upper was swapped.
This rifle also doesn't appear to have anything to help migiate the heat produced. I don't see how air could get even remotely close to the barrel to naturally cool it off, let alone if that pic rail is connected to the barrel your opitic mount will get hot with the barrel.
They did, read Hops comment responding to the pinned comment. Not their fault.
All they gotta do is ship one to Garand Thumb and if it lives up to its promises they’ll start selling lol
Sounds like a certified hater who thinks he knows everything
Word.
IF this isn't vaporware, and IF it is actually reliable, and IF they support it and don't abandon it like so many other innovative guns made by small companies, this thing will be pretty sweet.
They're 100% gonna fick thus up.
If it works the 6.5CM option might be cool.
Really love the look of this thing, can’t get enough Bullpups. Funny how the navy seal spec ops amphibian guy said the exact same thing in about 6 different ways.
I am local to Black Rain. I’ve seen several of their guns not working from the factory. If they can’t consistently make an ar15 that works, this new thing is gonna be junk.
That's what worries me. I don't know who actually has control of the parents. Sadly I think it's solely Black Rain. And yeah I'm a bit down the road in NW Arkansas and have seen the same thing.
A fanc paint job isn't impressive on a rifle that's an overpriced shit stick.
I'm kinda interested but I won't be a beta tester.
Now if someone bought them out or got a hold of the production rights. Like RRA did with the LAR-8 from Bushbaby err I mean Bushmaster. I'd be even more impressed.
Yeah same thing I'm worried about. When a shop gets 20 black rains in, and 7 of them don't work for various issues and are returned...it's not a great look.
I haven't heard much good out of Black Rain rifles. I'm sure they're not total shit sticks (love that one lol), but there's a reason their name doesn't make top 10 lists of most reliable AR manufacturers.
@@MikeA817 agreed. I'm sure the majority of their stuff is fine but even looking at this thing...why have all those dumbass cutouts on the 3&6 o'clock on the rail?? It was significantly more time on a machine to do that than it would've been to just cut mlok into it.
Had an expensive custom ak from M13 industry's ( overpriced company in West Coast )
Their gun exploded in my face,( ak had worse rivets ive seen on a 2000$ ak) and they blamed me for their rifle and took it back " promised " to fix . And never did. Black Rain reminds me of that shitty experience.
Google them and alot of people have had shitty experiences as well
Best time to pause is at 3:10 when you can see the guys eyes and Hop's frown
🤣 he was heartbroken.....poor guy. He wanted nothing more than Hops slicked back hair of approval.
SPECOPS SNOIPOR
yeah idk, this guy seems behind the times
WARFIGHTER
Ak like reliability
AMPHIBIOUS NATURE
“especially in the seal teams being an amphibian”
Hop is regretting talking to these cad warriors
How can you spot a SEAL? Same way you spot a vegan or cross fitter.
They won't shut up about it.
You forgot pilots
@@iamtherealrauschguy you'll never find a vegan SEAL I'll tell you hwhat
@@CalzaTheFox yes. They definitely love to let everyone know! Whatever happened to the “Silent Professional “.
I mean that's really not a bad thing. They should be proud of it
I need that guy to scream "Whoooo", lol.
1 year later and Hop's eyebrows are still f@cked
i'd be shocked if this rifle ever reaches the market
its funny when anytime you ask some company about their new bullpup design they spend the next four or so minutes describing what a bullpup is as if we did not already know.
Indicative of
I kept waiting for the part where they tell us how they revolutionized the design and how their trigger wasn’t absolute dog shit. Nope. Just buzz words and 8 minutes I’ll never get back.
That's because most people who make bullpups make them with that as the *only* selling point, which might have been fine for things like the AUG, FAMAS, L85, EM-2 etc. But it's honestly a joke in modern times, bullpups in common use have been around for over 40 years.
Can’t wait for hops full review, I’m sure he won’t be invited back to their booth next year
Never realized hop was that tall. Holy shit
6'4", worlds tallest lesbian.
@@spacecaesar7619 I thought that was Brittney Griner? Lol.
I had 2 black rains come into my store from the distributor without rifling. This was pre-pandemic.
Don’t rifles need rifling?
@@topheavykoolaid both functionally and legally I believe.
Ah yes, the smooth bore AR-15. Just as the founding fathers intended!
This whole comment section has me in tears lolol
@@ExtremeUnction1988 yeah its pretty good. these guys always bring a good laugh
Nothing more awkward that hearing someone who doesnt believe in the product hes selling, trying to sell a product, that doesnt sell itself.
With that paint job it reminds me of those Turkish bullpup shotguns.
Hop was thinking about how brutal the comments would be 🤣
spent 8 minutes watching this video and 20 min reading all the funny comments. you guys are savages im dying
Is it me or does the guy in middle look and sound like a navy seal version of Tim Allen?
ha, he's even got a little Al. I dont think so, tim.
I thought of Frank Drebin from Naked Gun...
i didnt know so many of our boys werent making it home cuz their damn rifles were just too long and inefficient! Thank god these guys have come along and created the bullpup solution that will finally save the lives of those amphibians.
Hop looks like a large 16 year old that is annoyed by two enthusiastic battle dwarves.
What unreliable snipers is he talking about that US special ops were using?
Probably the m1A/m14 which is notoriously unreliable and the hk417 which is very front heavy.
The SR-25 had a reputation for unreliability
@John Facts Possibly. That'd make sense since most of the examples people are giving are semi-autos. Finnicky semi-auto dmrs are one thing, but I can not imagine US special operations would put up with unreliable boltguns.
@@FluxApex shortstroking, feeding issues...
@@jordanhorst6M1A/M14 had less problems than SR25s, the M1a have a problem with bedding the stock after disassembly but that’s about it.
I've always considered automatic bolt release to be a potential malf waiting to happen. Either feeding or the mag not seating properly and the catch engaging. Interesting platform tho.I want to see what happens when Karl mud tests one of these.
Mr commando be talking like he just found out about the bullpup configuration. 😄
He may have just done that after he just finished operating in spec ops.
HELL SON WHEN I WAS IN SPEC OPS NAM I HAD ME A REMMINTON MODEL 7 IN .280 REMINDYON AND A SPRANFLEDLD NINETEENLEBBUN ALL U NEED GOBBLESS HOSS
After running a bullpup for 10 years, there's one feature that I think is a must. HK locking style charging handle. The Tavor7 and DT MDRX have this feature and I believe it's a necessity. Locking the bolt back without it is tedious and much more difficult, and the bolt catch can be sent home by your kit, if wearing any. Malfunctions occur and locking the bolt back helps tremendously.
Kel Tec RDB also has this function and I agree.
Steyr Aug has this, since the 80's
Black Rain... the brand with the spinning handguards and broken bolt lugs! Desert Tech says hold my beer.
There are two types of ex spec ops people. The humble kind, who you'll know for ten years until they casually mention "yeah, back when i used to work with the seals..."
And then there's this type.
I personally tend to be a lot more skeptical about the stories of those types tell
The first were able to transition normally back to society and move on with their lives. The second think of their time like they were football players in high school. They peaked and couldn't adapt.
@@heavymetla666 same guys who buy class rings
My man is tryin to pitch a bull pup like we haven’t seen one before LMAO
IN THE TEAMS...
Hop is a skeptical guy and isn't ashamed lol, his face during the interviews had me rolling
If they actually work at $1000 price point, could be interesting
Doubtful their AR-15 rifles sell for more than that.
Love watching Lifeguards creating useful tools.
.......coast guard?
I'm trying to figure out why they didn't call it a "Bro pup" style rifle. Maybe they will when it goes on sale.
I'm excited. Being multi-caliber, I imagine maybe a 8.6 Blackout in the future for an even more shorter package.
Agreed.
I’ll never get tired of hearing the term “AK reliable”
Right? Well apparently I should buy an AK over this
I see they solved the inherent bullpup problems for lefties **cough** Also is the razor sharp square edged grip also marked with grip zone?
Yeah i think the Desert Tech MDRX might be a better option.
Too bad that problem was already done in this exact same way with the High tower Armory HT90/22 conversion kit. I'm left handed, but I personally think in this case this has more value in just keeping the brass by the shooter, and easier to collect than anything.
All good guns have grip zone marked on them.
And no this is NOT a joke I am 100% serious.
The LOP is ridiculous for a fixed stock bullpup. No dust cover. Etc.
tavor 308 is a better buy then this tbh
i wasn't aware that soldiers were getting killed for lack of their preferred grip angle, thanks for the warning
@@or6060 soliders would everything about their AR’s that command would let them
@@totenfurwotan4478 tragically many lives were lost before magpul released the MOE grip
@@or6060 How many soldiers have you seen with one of these in combat?
This looks pretty amazing and I love bull pups even with issues. This is going to be fascinating to read actual reviews and I look forward to them before ordering.
Looking forward to this!
What keeps bugging me is the fact that they basically took the primary benefit of a bullpup and then... Didn't use it. Maybe it's just how it looks but from what I'm seeing it's the length of a normal rifle, which sure you get an *even longer* barrel (if that's even necessary) but you also get all the drawbacks of bullpups as well. Or not, as these gentlemen would have you believe.
Also I fail to see why AKs are still the prime example of a reliable weapon, they foul up like any other and they have a giant gaping hole dirt can get into if the safety is off.
The sigh and shoulder shrug at 1:40. Priceless
Y’all are party poopers, I think it looks awesome
Look, if it's good then it's good. Until I see multiple reviews from reliable hands-on sources I'll withhold judgement. And my $. It's just that it's promising the world and I take that with a huge grain of salt.
It's a Black Rain Ordnance product. You _should_ be skeptical.
They specialize in cringe not quality.
The majority of products they make might as well be direct posted to r/plebianAR
Hop's deep breathe while this guy is rambling is everything...
I really hope this rifles comes to market id love one
Ak reliability but they’re GOING TO torture test them, meaning they haven’t yet? Seems like a nice rifle, hope they accomplish what they’re preaching
Bet that dude had fun serving the beast.
Seems like a great gun. Hope it turns out to actually be good.
I would really love to know what hop is thinking throughout this entire video.
I like how hat old guy explained what a bolt release was like no one has ever seen or used one lol.
The 18 inch barrel set up as a semi-auto scout rifle would be sweet :) also for tacticool hunting/anti-bear! :)
this gun literally fucks with everything that the SIG MCX has. its looks so good.
Can’t wait for reviews on this firearm!
The MDR wants to know your location
Hop could have asked for more details about the gas system, bolt and such. The inside of the gun is where The magic really happens.
Now the gun is very slim for a 308 bullpup, I find that promising.
We had some really bad background audio for parts of the interview so that didn't make the cut. It's a trilug rotating bolt, with what they described as an impingement assisted gas piston system.
They kept saying "AK reliability. So I would assume it's a long stroke piston.
@@TFBTVShowTime So like a Hallaway Hac-7 gas system?
@@ryankozarich6968 i got that impression too. Gas tube futher in the barrel leading to a piston close to the bcg for enough dwell time.
@@TFBTVShowTime Impingment assisted? So kinda like the Tinck Arms Perun, in that it's a shortened short stroke piston that uses a DI gas tube to push on the piston?
Great highlight! Fascinating stuff!
I see the criticism of this, but honestly I think it's really cool and I would love to see a 5.56 variant.
If it actually works.
If its half as good as they claim, I'd be interested, especially if they do actually offer a carbon fiber chassis.
Nice large trigger guard for gloves.
The best sound intro of them all
Looks great!
I wish them luck. They're probably gonna have a tricky go of it though.
"Saw Man" Sawyer is a Stallion! :D
👍👍
Holy length of pull Batman!
The 18" setup reminds me of the ISA's M82 rifle from Killzone
I'm glad I'm not the only one in the comments that was thinking of some sci fi game/story that shorter one looked like it belonged too. lol.
The Beretta 80X Cheetah was the coolest thing at SHOT show IMO. And that's just bringing back something old 😂
I have been trying so hard to find this since hop posted it on insta with no context
A great interesting video and firearms.
This was painful......😬
Hop stood there for 8 minutes straight, without saying a word, and took it like a man.
This is the kind of mental anguish that causes premature eyebrow balding
Bless you Hop. You're a strong man.
I'm getting MDR vibes, bet this doesn't hit market for 5 years if ever. But best of luck hope they do it.
As owner of an MDR, I really hope they learn and do better than the MDR. Good to see DT still coming up with updates and improvements for it, but damn it's taking a while.
@@ghost101049 You can't get any better than a MDR they are 100% perfect rifles in absolutely everyway.
@@robertsears8323 lol. Funny.
They have some cool tricks, but some of the details did not play out well.
That looks like the longest bullpup ever, Hop looks very goth/emo to
Waw, something that the average hard working man can afford without feeling guilty about his home obligations 👏👏👏, I pray that everything checks out with the intensive testing and to see this in the market and in the hands of people soon
WARFIGHTER
as a "fudd ops sniper" i can confirm, i am not able to insert a magazine into an ar15 while shouldering it.
Bullpups are the future!
"people never bothered to engineer the problems out of it"
It gives me the impression of a western Dragunov SVU in regards to the slim form for a bullpup.
They keep saying it’s shorter but that length of pull is as long as Hop’s torso and I’m fairly certain that Hop is descendant from antediluvian giants…
Wow probably the best, rifle of shot show. The only thing I would like to pass along is that could they make it. Right side and left side side ejection Option.
Anything that brings competition to Desert Tech is a welcome one. I'd love an SRS but will never justify paying $6k.
I like the idea of a bulpup precision rifle, but for 6k, I'd get and Accuracy International platform. I've checked out their rifles and just the chassis is stupid expensive for something that fits a bolt action.
You’ll love this rifle.
Im not a bullpup fan but im going to pick one of these up
You can put that on my Christmas list.
I’d try it. Seems cool.
Have to admit...I don't like bullpups...but this has me intrigued 🤔...
Respect to the Sawman.
Hopefully, an adjustment stock will be available in the future on these
I don't know if I missed it in the video, but did they talk for 7 minutes about the rifle without even mentioning what its name was?
Not gonna lie sounds too good to be true and a lot of praise for an explanation that doesn't touch on what type of gas system it is,...or it having the slimmest ejection port I've ever seen. Still, optimistic they've achieved what they've claimed.
Fascinating