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SHOWDOWN! 30-06 Winchester Copper Impact 150 vs 180 grain Ballistics Gel Ammo Test
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- čas přidán 6. 04. 2024
- 30-06 Springfield Winchester Copper Impact Extreme Point 150 grain and 180 grain ammo ballistics gel test fired from a Tikka T3X Superlite Stainless with 22.4 inch barrel.
Range gear: masonoutdoors.com
Leather gear: www.masonleather.com
All shots are fired from a distance of 100 yards to encompass the majority of common real world hunting scenarios with this caliber.
I will be shooting into 10% ballistics gel from www.clearballistics.com that has been calibrated to meet the FBI ballistics testing protocol.
While ballistics gel isn’t an exact proxy for big game, small game, predators or defensive situations, it does provide a repeatable medium through which to test various bullets and ammunitions against each other.
With each type of ammo tested I collect data on bullet penetration depth, bullet weight retention, bullet expansion and muzzle velocity.
For reference, bullet expansion is measured at the widest expanded point using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper.
Bullet weight is measured using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Scale after having removed as much ballistics gel as possible from the expanded bullets.
Bullet velocity is measured using a ProChronoPal chronograph set approximately 7’ from the shooting bench.
I am fully aware that a chronograph measuring bullet velocity from 7’ away from the muzzle is going to register a slower velocity than if velocity were measured directly at the muzzle, but that difference is going to be so small as to be all but irrelevant in regards to comparison of actual measured velocity versus factory stated velocity.
My goal with these ballistics gel tests is to provide hunters like you and I with the most objective information possible to help us make the best choice for our particular hunting situation.
The results of these tests are my own and I cannot guarantee the same or similar performance on your part. The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own.
All videos are filmed in a safe and controlled environment on a private range with all applicable safety precautions by a trained professional.
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That is absolute nonsense that a rifle going to shoot copper expanding bullets must have a different rate of rifling twist and that BS now is all over CZcams videos just like the Nonsense fad of claiming 10 mm handguns for hunting Alaskan brown bears or the nonsense of cheap crap lead bullets are better than modern copper jacket and copper expanding bullets then there are the CZcams Parrot mouth talker 45 - 70 fanboys making up lunatic nonsense about the 45-70.
The length of the bullet has absolute zero effect on the rate of spin of rifling and if it did the rifle would only be able to shoot one type of bullets because like a lighter weight bullet is going to shorter than a heavy bullet.
I am a custom rifle builder with very unusual AR 10 uppers in WSM magnums and wildcat cartridges I sell, and all of my barrels come from Pac Nor Barrels so when I order a barrel, I don't tell Jay at Pac Nor make me a barrel for shooting copper expanding bullets and there aren't such barrels made.
And anyone want to say I am fill of it then I will post the ID contact to see my AK guide photos and rifles I build on my account on Instagram.
CZcams has been boring without your videos. Glad your back! 🦌
Glad to be back!
I work at a gun store and often reference your videos. You're doing God's work by helping defeat fudd lore by making these videos
Glad to be of service!
What exactly is “fudd lore” and what specifically are you talking about?
@nicolascreech6367 shit like grain weight is all that matters. Being able to refer to ballistics gel tests where bullets with different construction and less grain weight perform better than heavy for caliber offerings with a poorer performing bullet design (i.e. deer season xp vs solid copper or heavy for caliber soft point vs light for caliber tipped, although the latter starts showing the difference more at longer distances)
@nicolascreech6367 to answer what fudd lore is, it's typically things said by fudds that are mostly if not entirely untrue, including but not limited to: 5.56 is weak, use fmjs for defense bc it pierces through clothing and hollow points won't (some hollow points in some calibers won't but this is remedied with proper bullet selection), x grain weight can't take y game, ar15s are unreliable, revolvers don't jam, carry empty chamber bc it's unsafe to carry otherwise and you'll have time to rack the slide, 1911s are better than glocks bc steel frame, 9mm is weak, the m14 was a good rifle, the m16 was designed to wound, don't carry a spare mag bc you won't need it if you just don't miss, don't use an optic bc irons are more reliable and red dots will die and make your gun useless in a fight (as if absolute cowitness/lower 1/3 mounts don't exist), 6.5 creedmoor isn't good enough for deer, etc. Those are just the ones I've thought of off the top of my head
@@masonoutdoors_masonleather out of curiosity, have you considered testing 223/556 loads from a 16" or 20" barrel, as these are more likely to be used? Also, do you have access to a range beyond 100 yards? It'd be cool to see how rounds perform at different distances if that's possible
You're the man. I don't own most of what you shoot but i love watching these.
Glad to be of service!
Sweet video! How about more ammo testing for the 270 win👍🏼
I’ll get to it
I just purchased some of 270 browning max point in 130g, I haven’t made it to the range yet
Welcome back!! You do great work. Thanks for the quality content.
Glad to be of service!
Love your videos! Consistent, unbiased, and exhaustive tests!
Would love to see a video on Barnes VOR-TX in 30-06!
Excellent video Mason. Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Glad to be of service!
Years ago when I first tried the Barnes X I was told that when shooting a monolithic bullet you should shoot one to two weights lower than what you woukd shoot with a lead core bullet. I ended up shooting 80 grain in my .243 insteacd of 100 grain and 150 grain instead of 175 grain out of my 7mm Rem Mag and both guns shot them very well.
@@DinoNucci yeah there is, they dont work without velocity so you need speed to get them to open and anything above 80 or 85 grain wouldnt stabilize in a 1:10 .243 due to copper density
The main reason is copper is less dense than. So same weight would mean extra long bullets. Which would not stabilize in the same twist rate
I've been impressed with the test results I have seen with Winchester Copper Impact shot out of .308 and .30-06. They seem to have good penetration with absolutely GNARLY and ragged-looking expanded petals. It actually makes me wonder if the raggedness of the petals might somehow have even more devastating terminal performance than Barnes bullets, which tend to be very uniform and aesthetic looking after expansion. I really think Winchester has a winner with these. It's nice there's a more budget-minded option out there that seems to perform very well. Thanks for your efforts. Cheers.
Glad to be of service!
glad your back. May God bless you and your videos
Glad to be of service!
Did you see Remington's copper core-lokts? It's hard for me to sling anything other than lead but those Remington's perform. And now these Winchesters look interesting as well. Yes. The ole 30-06 sure moves those blocks around! Lol.
You’re videos are fantastic you save me a ton of money on trial and error
Glad to be of service!
Great video... Thanks for your work.
Glad to be of service!
Glad you're back. Can't wait for the 308 videos 😂 and I don't know what happened to the .44mag video that was advertised.
I've seen quite a few requesting the 308 it's always you'll eventually get to it.
This has become almost mentally abusing waiting this long 😛
Ok rant over. Yet again another amazing video. Missed ya. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for more information!
Glad to be of service!
Great video good info from what i have experienced myself and i agree totally stick with the grn that shoots most accurately in your gun that way you know what you have hands down 👍🏻👍🏻
Glad to be of service!
Great content. Thanks for posting.
Glad to be of service!
my go to through out the years have been 120 gr. rem.cor-loct 30-06,lot of deer muley and white tail.my last year of hunting was last year 200yd neck shot off shooting stick,senior muley doe draw.noot bad for being disabled on 02.keep up the cool vids
I just bought a box of the 150 grain. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever but winchester is killing the ammo boxes these days 😂. Modern classics for sure. Almost hate to throw some of them away.
Omg! Welcome back. Keep up the awesome work. Already looking forward to next video. Not going to rush you, but plan on hunting with 6.5 prc next season with Federal TA factory loads. Hint hint.
Glad to be of service! Haha, ill get to the PRC stuff at some point, not sure when, lots to get through!
The Gun Dungeon needs one of your Cartridge Cuffs for his CVA Scout he's in the market.
LOVE THIS ! Got to get me some of that 180, I have some of the 150s very accurate
Glad to be of service!
Nice test.
Glad to be of service!
Fort Scott TUI ballistic gel tests would be nice!
you have to get your hands on the 130gr. TTSX for the 30-06sprg.
The 12 gauge sabot does pretty darn good on deer I haven't been able to find them for my 30-06 and my 25-06
With copper bullets my gun loves the 165 Barnes ttsx I would say that I would trust it in North America in a 30/06 rifle. I also use a 100 grain in my 25/06 and had great results. I'm also thinking about loading 180 in my 300 win mag. This is just my 2 cents but I have had really good luck with these bullets you have to just remember that they need speed to work properly
I was so very curious about if the Tikka could shoot the 180gr coppers. You've answered my question and I'm not surprised. For some reason Tikka uses 1 in 11 twist on their .30-06. This slow twist rate just may not be enough for the length required to get 180gr of copper. Maybe a more typical 1 in 10 bbl would do better with them? (Edit: You said this, I was impatient with my comment!)
Glad to be of service!
Man those 150s are cooking been looking at getting a lighter load for my woman’s 3006 (I told her to buy something smaller) I’ve been looking at a lot of copper bullets
Can you test the .270 Copper Impacts?
Yes
@rogerf7265, I agree with you. When premium lead(bonded or partioned) was too expensive or not available, people around here would almost always suggest heaviest for caliber bullet available, to penetrate and retain as as much bullet as possible.
Round here is Montana so deer,bear, and elk with moose and griz encounters being a possibility. Copper gives similar penetration and better retention in lower grains. Example 30-06 150gr vs 180gr. Copper 150 gives better trajectory while performing like a lead 180. 180gr copper in 06' looks ok at 100yds but then the expansion starts to lack and you get pencil holes. In my opinion push the copper as hard as you can in lower weight bullet. Just my $0.02.
I love copper bullets and yes, make sure your gun can shoot them, not all guns like copper bullets, and good video.
That 180gr looked like it had a heavier crimp vs the150. It might have just been the single sample or the angle that made the crimp more visible on the 180gr
but might be worth checking. For 30-06 I hand load 165gr accubonds under Accuarte 17 and they are instant death to anything it hits (respectively). It looks like the target was hit by lighting as I get full pass through.
My 270w tikka loves these 1/2” groups at 100m shot 2 fallow deer with them a stag and a doe complete pass throughs on both the stag was shot at 280m placement was a bit far forward but passed through both heavy shoulder bones and exited and the doe was shot at 320m hit on the front quarter and exited out the stomach even at those distances had decent expansion and not much meat damage basically eat up to the hole both deer made it about 5-10m and they were down
It depends on what kind of game you are hunting. For deer, antelope, sheep, and goat, the 150 grainer is the way to go. For elk, moose, bears and buffalo, the 180 grainer offers deeper penetration, which is highly desirable.
I would love to see some sellor and bellot txrg test
I have some coming 👍🏼
Lead is a little more than 25% more dense than copper. This affects bullet size, making the copper bullet larger for a given weight. You can get a rough idea of the physical size of a typical lead-core bullet vs a monolithic copper (or copper alloy) one of a particular weight. Take the weight of a copper bullet and multiply by 1.25. That makes a 150 grain copper bullet about the same physical size as a 188 grain cup and core. The 180 grain copper bullet is pretty large, about the same size as a cup and core 225 grain, which explains why there were accuracy problems. It probably didn't stabilize well enough.
This works pretty well for cup and core bullets with relatively thin jackets but not so well for ones with thick copper bases like the Terminal Ascent series.
Yeah, you didn’t even need to shoot the 180s for me to know the velocity Winchester posted was optimistic at best. 2795 fps with a *LEAD* 180 gr bullet is getting darn near max pressure with a 24 inch barrel. With a longer copper bullet, seated to the same depth as the 150 (from the looks of it) I pretty much figured it’s going to infringe on case capacity, so you’re not going to get that listed velocity.
If you can find the Winchester power point for the 450 bushmaster I would like to see how they do before I go hunting this year
Impressive 150. Not terribly impressed with the 180s velocity being closer to 308 than /06. But both would be very effective. Thank you.
Hey man love your content ,could you do 270 win 140gr sst superformance
Glad to be of service! Yes when I get to it
Try getting the 20% ballistic gel for rifles.
Are you still going to change the stock on the 30 06
Any chance you could test copper bullets at 200/300 yards? Monolithics are very velocity sensitive in terms of expansion.
I wonder what length comparison is between the 150 grain copper bullet and a 180 grain lead core bullet?
I find that the lighter copper bullet acts like the heavier lead bullets in flight characteristics
My Tikka 308 likes the Nosler 168 grain E-Tips
Lol 😂 Mine enjoys the hornady superformance 165cx .5 groups have not tried the 150 or 180s
So not much difference with performance with 180 vs the lighter 150 but don't tell that to Tom Brady. 🙃
Good to know about the copper bullets being longer. My main hunt rifle is a Browning AB3 with a 1 in 12 twist and 22" in 308. My Savage 110 Hog Hunter has a 1 in 10 twist and 20". If it liked the faster twist rate, I'd need an optic on that Hog Hunter if in was to hunt where rules demanded non lead. Nice video. 👍
What does Tom Brady have to do with it?
@NCWoodlandRoamer remember the deflate incident? Joke was poking fun at the lighter bullet didn't make much difference.
@@rw7594 oh yeah ok!
Can you put a riser on your leather shell holder for a stock
I do not do cheek risers for myriad reasons
I'd like to see this exact same test but with 300 win mag.
my guns hated these in .308 and 3006. winchester had a copper hollow point that they discontinued for these. my 06 loved the hollow points. luckily it likes barnes ttsx and has no point of impact difference
Have you done the 130gr. TSSX in 30-06sprg yet? i'd like to see what it does.
Nope
You definitely want that speed with a copper bullet . The 150 for the win …
Can you test 100 grain nosler partition for the 243 please?
If it’s available and I come across it. Factory loaded Nosler Partition loads are a lot rarer than they used to be
I have done that very thing already let me give you a heads up - that will only be good for rabid coyotes it shreds most of its top half the little bottom section left does very little good for Penetration it is a waste of money to me !
@@jeremyfrix522 good feed back. I was concerned that the 6mm projectiles were too small to actually function as the partition was designed. I think that's the biggest issue with 243. I don't think the Barnes ttsx would do what it's supposed to either... 🤔
@@masonoutdoors_masonleather thanks. I'm a bigg fan if fusions but looking for other options for big desert mule deer
@@DinoNucci I might just
👍🏼
According to a couple reputable sources, if you've been firing pretty routine copper-jacketed lead bullets, that copper gilding has been collecting in the bore surface. If you shoot a copper-monolithic bullet after setting that bore condition, it won't be accurate. Reason? Evidently the full copper bullets don't play well with the gilded copper jacket material.
Solution? Copper remover, strip that bore down to the bare steel, then fire a few fouling shots with full-copper bullets, and she should tighten groups right up.
That's the statements and experiments I've seen in other videos, and it seems to play true.
The reverse of this process doesn't seem to be an issue (firing copper-jacket lead bullets after firing full copper bullets).
Saying "Yank one out" after spending the past 20 seconds saying the word "load" over and over was on purpose😂
It wasn’t but it’s funny haha
Tipped match ammo video when?
I’ve got quite literally hundreds of different loads on hand to film, when I get to what isn’t something I can narrow down.
I like rhe .mushrooms
To my knowledge, the 180 grain .30-06 bullets have killed more Elk in the last 70 or 80 years then any other bullet/cartridge combinations!!!
Almost 2800 fps for a 180 copper seems like reaching for the stars. A 180 copper going 2700 out of a 22 inch barrel would be cooking.
😂 30-06 on a whitetail?!? Man, whoever is using that must be after dat 30 point buck 😂
we found the .556 guy
All jokes aside, I have used the '06 for years hunting MO whitetail, and it's a bit overkill if I'm being honest.
Just the mention of copper is a turn away for me. No copper ! Sing it!
the 150s are faster even with a non 24 inch barrel, shocking
150 grain in the 30-06 is unbeatable, 180 grain doesn't belong in the 30-06 at all. 100 yards whatever. Look at 200-400 its a joke.