How To Get The Best From Your Disc Brakes | Brake Pad & Rotor Tips
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- If you’re not getting enough from your current brakes, buying a new set might not be the best solution to get more braking power. In fact, even if you’ve just bought a brand new bike with super-powerful brakes, it’s possible that your discs, your pads, or even your bedding-in process is holding you back from reaching their full potential. In this video, Anna Cipullo shares some top tips on how to get the best performance from your existing brakes!
⏱ Time Stamps 👇
00:00 - Intro
00:53 - Bedding In / Burnishing
04:49 - No Disk Is Made Equal
07:26 - Disk Brake Cooling
09:00 - Disc Holes
11:24 - Materials
14:37 - Steel Grading
15:42 - Brake Maintenance
18:03 - Contamination
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Wow! This has to be one of the most indebt videos about disc brake issues on youtube. And it's very nice to also get the actual explanation of why all of this happens.
Could not agree more. Amazing video. Definitely a well made "nerdy" video. Thanks alot.
If you honestly think that is... obvious you don't understand basic physics and you don't do any sort of reading or research on the subject so I suggest stop watching these simplistic videos that placate to elementary school level intelligence and start to learn some basic math skills.
@@rider65 Wow, who pissed into your cup of coffee this morning, lol?
And full of incorrect information.
@@TrailsideMTB. How about you tell us what exactly instead of just throwing a commentary like that into the room?
Some of those were not floating rotors,they are just bi-metal spider rotors,floating rotors have an actual gap between the spider and the outer braking surface
Thought the same
Yea thought that also.
Yep, a common failure to understand plain English.
Unfortunately, there is plenty of misleading or just plain incorrect information in this video.
Exactly!
You don't need a steel ruler to measure pad thickness if you have vernier calipers, you can measure depth with either end of the calipers. Also, braking surfaces can get slightly dished so if you measure the thickness on the outside of the rotor it might not be the thinnest point of the braking surface. Park Tool have a fix for this in the form of the DCA-1.
I am so glad I watched this with my new $9k mountain bike sitting in my living room. Save a lot of brain damage and $$.
if my mechanic was so honest, i wouldn't need to buy a new car
Script needs to be technically checked before recorded... Some glaring issues. Not floating discs as rigidly mounted. CAN RESURFACE DISC? WHO AND WHERE. Guys please.
Yeah resurfacing a bike rotor... with 0.3 mm wear limit. Interesting idea.
It’s like they put Anna in Tech just for the algorithm: people don’t really care about helping others, yet they LOOOOVE correcting others, so any time Anna says something questionable or utterly wrong (which happens worryingly often), some commenters need to pitch in and say “well, no” making the algorithm, and investors, happy.
Resurface on bike discs means a light surface sand and clean with brake cleaner. It's a simple, and common process. Lots of vids on it. Surprised ur clearly ignorant that 'resurfacing' a bike disc is a term (admittedly maybe not fully accurately used) u haven't knowledge of.
@@rupedog that is not resurfacing. That's deglazing. Resurfacing refers to machining the surface new.
sintered pads will grind down the steel of the disc, quickly removing any pores filled with resin pad material. I always use hard pads (ceramic or sintered) because they usually self maintain by abrasion and are reliable under heavy braking. Discs wear more quickly, but the advantages in reliability and performance far outweigh the wear issue
I got a new bike yesterday - first one in 13 years - and this video was invaluable! Thanks for the knowledge dump :D
Contaminated pads are one thing, But surely from an automotive point of view it can't be that difficult to clean disc surfaces with brake clean. Alcohol etc? 🤔
Yes, a sand, isopropyl or brake cleaner will remove most bonded pad material, so u don't need different discs per pad type, unless properly cleaning each time u change pad type is too hard for u!
Even then, all pads contain the same organic material that bonds to disc, just in different proportions. So ur unlikely to notice much by swapping pad type on the same disc, once re-bedded. Someone like a top pro might... U or I, nah.
Can't wait for the next video 🤙
13:23 Always love to see that fingerprint finish on those discs!!!
That's not a floating rotor as I understand it, but just a 2 piece? Floating rotors have the hub and braking surface separately, but I believe floating are not riveted on like that one but have hollow 'eyelets' between hub and brake surface. Might be wrong tho... Just my understanding.
awesome episode 🤘
Great info👍🏻 Well explained!
Very interesting video, thank you!
Very comprehensive 👍
nice tutorial, good points
Thanks more detail 🤞
Very well done Anna. I’m starting my journey into disc brakes on my bike and this video was so helpful.
A BIG thumbs up!!
thank you, very helpful and well explained!
You're very welcome! Thanks for he support!
@@gmbntech good effort however, speak with a metallurgist. 300 series (304-316 etc. ) and 400 series (410s, 420s, 440s) are completely different due to carbon content which then may require HT. It is about martensite vs austenite.
304 is hardened by HT but by cold drawing hardening
The main benefit of larger rotors is the added leverage=more stopping power.
Exactly, the braking surface area is limited to the pad size.
Actually, surface area and fiction area has nothing to do with stopping power. Larger rotors only dissipate heat better and better prevent brake fade. Otherwise rim brakes would always be superior.
When I went on to a 29er I was a bit surprised by the speed so I upgraded the front to a 200 four pot. Works like a dream. Gives me the braking power and modulation I need with the extra speed. I also never use brake cleaner as the braking feels worse afterwards. Just simple Muc Off bike cleaner if I think the disc has got contamination. From what Anna describes, I think brake cleaner removes the pad material as well as the contaminant so you'd have to bed the brakes in again.
its usually some sort of oil residue from brake cleaner that is left behind and merges with the pad material on the disc.
i learned that if i use brake cleaner on discs, i need to light up the disc and keep it burning until it burns out naturally.
This gets rid of the brake cleaner oils as well as the natural oils found in the wild, or even other oils that accidentally ended up on the disc.
do keep in mind that if you do light up the disc, to do a light conservative bed in yet again to build a 'protective' or extra layer on top of the existing one.
this has worked so many times for me personally.
and if you keep buying the same material brake pads, you rarely have to buy new discs. because this method takes care of the discs.
I just use undustrial grade alcohol (no moisturizer, no fragrance, etc.) for cleaning brakes.
@@sepg5084 Or just wood alcohol, $1-2 per liter, also works to clean lenses, etc.
I looped out a wheelie in a carpark the other day after swapping from organic to sintered pads. Bedded in but still a bit weak. Must be due to the resin on the rotors! Thanks!
I’m hoping the metallic pads will bed in better over time.
I just found out here, on my new rotors, I'm using the wrong pads.
At least I can correct it pretty simple but I didn't even think about the disk and pads have to be compatible.
Great Segment!
Nerd tastic... Great, thorough vid Anna 💪👏🤟
Glad you liked it!! Thanks for watching!
love your presentations, sure do miss doddy!!
Nice vid
Your calipers should have a depth gauge on the other end from the readout. This works great for checking pad wear.
Hi! Thanks!
One aspect of mtb brakes that was omitted was the different mounting systems in use by the industry.
I bought an amazing used bike and needed to put new rotors on it. I found out the hard way that my bike with Industry Nine hubs used the Shimano lock ring style mounting that I was unfamiliar with. My old bike had SRAM brakes with 6 holes to bolt on the rotors to the hubs.
I ended up ordering 6 hole discs only to find out they could not be used on the hubs I had.
So I think that's a must to consider when buying new rotors. As both Shimano and SRAM can use the lock ring style of disc mounting.
You can find adaptors for 6 holes rotors to fit on center-lock wheels, but I never tried, haven't compared prices, etc.
Just a little bit of metallurgy. When talking about stainless heat treatment the goal is not to make the stainless hard in the way carbon steel is. It's actually called precipitation hardening which in effect ages the metal. it creates a more normalized structure that will resist warping in the case of a brake rotor.
So this would mean it's not a problem if I burned my Shimano resin pads and brand new "resin only" rotors, bedding-in in steep descent?
Rotors are brownish from heat and I could smell the smoke from the pads, but they still function normally - from what I can see.
Excellent breakdown of the various materials and reasoning for their use .
Keep it up !
Glad it was helpful, Marco! Anna knows her stuff! 👍
EXCELLENT
Great video. I learned a lot 🙂
This is the video that I have been looking for!
Not all 2 piece rotors are floating. The shimano ones have rigid rivets with no float. A floating rotor will usually have much bigger pins that hold the rotor to the spider, while allowing it to shift slightly as it expands. you can't feel it by hand, but when you heat one up you'll hear pinging as it cools, and tightens back up. The main advantage is that it can just expand and contract more consistently, rather than warping, when the braking surface heats up and tries to expand, while being tied down by a cooler spider.
Everything we need in one video, thanks
I've tried ceramic pads and, I liked them when the humidity was just right. However they wore the rotor out in a hurry
I change materials w/o any problems. A good cleaning and a rough up gets rotors back into good performance.
Also: Check your pads and rough them up every now and then. A Dremel w/a sanding wheel takes off those ridges that some pads get 😉
I think it was Doddy that used a credit card as a pad thickness gauge - brilliant
Well seeing as you hadn't stated what specific rotor you are using you might need to upgrade to that are rotors for the ceramic pads same goes for sintered or semi-metallic if your bike came with Organic pads chances are you have a low-grade rotor. Shimano ice, magura storm, or galfer rotors are some of the best on the market
If you're getting ridges on your pads, either your caliper isn't aligned properly, or your rotor has a weird wear pattern. Either of those issues needs to be adressed, not grinding your pads down.
Talking about cheap disks an d showing a Trickstuff one? Misleading, i´d say...
Thanks GMBN 😊
Any time! Thanks for the support!
VERRY GOOD VIDEO! I JUST SWAPPED MY BACK DISC AND PADS. I DID THE BED IN PROPER :)
yes there is something you missed.
the squiecky disc, either when the pads are not compatible with the disc or the disc is burnt or contaminated.
there is a paste you can apply direct to the disc, make 1-2 treatments and it will take the burned marks/colors and the noise out of it.
there are few manufacturers who make pastes like this, I tried one of them it worked realy well in my case.
Small correction those shimano rotors are not floating rotors. With floating rotors the thermal expansion of the braking surface is independent of the spider to reduce warping. As far as I know the only manufacturers that offers floating rotors for bicycles are hope, ashima and galfer. They are more common on motor bikes.
Got 220mm Rotors front and back on my Trek Rail 👌🏻
POWER 💪
Talking about cheap discs and Holding up a 40€ Trickstuff Disc which are one of the bests on the marked 5:08
The lady knows her brakes. Now I do too, thanks!
Very good info right there👌 obviously I'm looking to buy disc that you have'nt talk about.😆 I'm talking about full floater discs! I wonder what's the up and down side to these?
They handle heat better without distorting, they are often heavier and can rattle after a bit of wear.
At about 10:44 you mention that "a center lock type rotor might... save weight." Do you think that Center Lock, (i.e. Shimano) is a lighter set up than 6-bolt?Curious. Such a fantastically done video! A Huge pile of info transmitted clearly, and in a 'real-world' dialog. Thanks Anna!
We aren’t considering that some people don’t weigh 60kg or less, some ppl may weigh 100+ which means that they are going to need a 220 over a 200 on an standard enduro as the extra weight is in their middle rather than the bike.
Yeah I've had a long brake riding my mtb and lost a lot of weight. Currently on 59. Suddenly my brakes feel like Magura brakes 😂
Agreed
Can somebody tell Anna how to use the vernier caliper to measure pad thickness?
Well this explains why when I switched to sintered pads, they started feeling like crap. I guess it’s new rotor time.
Hi guys and gals .. may I enquire, can I swap my rotors around, front to back , back to front . Want to put the 200 front and 220 rear .. Will I need any special adapter or parts to do this ? Bike is Giant Reign e+0. .. many thanks for any input and advice .
Kindest regards Jay. Avid watcher . Great channel
Question :
My Koolstop brakes are organic but they have copper peace’s in them ,might that be bad for only resin disc‘s
Nice! I never quite understood the benefits of floating rotors. Well explained.
I recently upgraded my front rotor from a 160 to a 203mm. Weirdly enough while my bike was on the bike stand I couldn't get my caliper centered and I no matter how much I played with it I was getting brake rub. I finally gave up and figured the brake rub would eventually stop once my pads wore down a little bit. Immediately on my first ride though there wasn't ANY brake rub. I'm not sure why there would be brake rub while on the stand but off the stand no brake rub.
I've also had the same type of experience with my shifting. I took my bike to a bike shop to have them adjust my rear derailleur because i had cable stretch, the shifting was nice and smooth on the bike rack and I thought I was good. But then on my ride home the shifting was terrible, it was actually worse then before i took it into the bike shop.
Your brake might have been only suitable for 200mm. 203 is shimano, 200 SRAM.
Re gear shifting, if its full sus u might have to set up at sag, as when sagged this can pull some rear derailleur cables changing cable tension. Or could be incorrect B gap (essential to set at sag) or just incorrect set up. Or a loose rear derailleur
Sometimes the margins on shifters and brakes are so small, that even your weight on the bike might make a difference. so it works on the stand, and doesnt while riding, or vice versa. for brakes i meanwhile set them up by eye and even if there is a minimal rub i just go biking and bed them in without trying to get them a 1000% right on the stand. many times they wear themselves in correctly, or shift further to one side and need re-centering aber a few kilometers anyway. its much quicker and generaly tends to work quite fine than going crazy with the setup in the "dry". just dont ride them wrongly-setup aggressively over a long time.
Zero the calipers on the pad baseplate then measure the total thickness to get the actual pad thickness...
Price of the bike is usually in thousands of pounds and they still install cheap ass rotors and pads to save 3.99 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Vera Fermiga lookalike! 👍
Lots of info errors in this video. They're mentioned in the comments many times over.
ASHIMA ARO-08 and SwissStop RS pads never fails
I think I messed up my new Shimano mt201s.. I used the brakes with little power in the begining. They aren't to great at the moment. What to do?
Hi, how do I get rid of squeal .? I have a Giant bike and it’s been into a Giant dealer and they can’t cure it ! So frustrating.
FYI cheap big rotors without a carrier will rattle.
Rotor holes are also to clean pads.
"Floating rotor" is a motorcycle/car term for rotors that are not rigidly fixed to a carrier. The rotor is fixed to the carrier with hollow "buttons" like chainring bolts not rivets. They have some play to allow for expansion under heat to prevent warping. I doubt pedal bike brakes ever get that hot.
18:47 We can see sign of some improper installation. The upper edge of pad is hanging in the air and doesn't touch any rotor surface.
Superb tech show 🙄👍
space betwreen calipers and disc thicknesses
I use non resin pads on resin rotors and no problem there
So they are metal? I burned my Shimano resin pads and "resin only" rotors while bedding-in in steep descent...
Rotors are still true and the pads do their work, but the rotors are brownish from the heat, and I could smell the smoke from the pads...
#askgmbntech If I use a "brake cleaner" product to clean my rotors, (say, after glazing them), should I expect to need to bed them in again? (Using the same pads...)
I typically think of "bedding in" PADS, not rotors. But if I use brake cleaner the surface of the rotors with, would a proper bedding in with the same old pads be needed?
So i use Magura MT7 pro with 223mm Galfer shark discs, better isnt possible 😇
Floating rotors actually "float" and are connected via float buttons, not rivets nor screws.
My rare brakes making horible noise when I stoping in very low speed. When I going normal or fast its all good. Help me to grt rid off this isue please 😢
About floating discs.... Well your technically right on the effect and there are other benefits... But the reasons listed... A thicker center? cmon... do your research. You guys are way too awesome to give this half assed information. Love your videos though =)
#gmbntech #askgmbntech , put an opened dot fluid container in a zip-loc bag with a couple of decent sized silica gel bead packs inside.
That stuff is expensive. Sad to hear that what I have left is probably bad .
Great video Anna, well explained and comprehensively covered. A question please, can pads and rotors be swapped front to rear to extend their life as I do with tyres?
If you just replace them when they are too worn, it doesn't really matter to them whether they are on the front or rear. If you always replace front and rear together, I you might extend the lifespan a bit by swapping them.
@@Finnspin_unicycles Thank you for your reply and advice.
Yes, you can! However, it's worth noting if you're running different-size rotors you will need the appropriate adaptors! 👍
@@gmbntech Thank you, much appreciated.
I have TRP evo Trail...
I ride Specialized P3 DJ and do a bit of street trials on my bike and got these brakes hearing how good they are.
Unfortunately I can't run a bigger disc at the back because its a 140 disc frame so I have a 20+ 160mm on back and 180mm front.
I also struggle to find 2.3mm thick disc for the TRPs and I just can't get a good bit out of my brakes.
Any advice please?
Maybe get all the data before buying next time?
Well explained as usual. Though hard to keep concentrating on the topic if presented by Anna 😊
Nice lady, but hard to listen to...Sorry Anna
What grit sandpaper is recommended to scuff up the disks?
We use anything from 80 to 200 at work and they all work.
@@OjStudios will try that thanks
0:34 what model of brake rotor is she holding?
Shimano RT-MT900
Trick Stuff Brake Pads.. I've got XTR calipers and after whacking some Trick Stuff pads in 'em (after a recommendation from someone in the comments here) it definitely has really woke these brakes back up.. honestly, want a bit more easy bite?.. get some.
I use 700mm rotors for ultimate braking power......a rim brake.....😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
9:51 not a floating rotor, that's hard rivited. Who wrote the script? Who fails to fact chech the "tech"
I don’t think a two piece rotor is the same as a floating rotor. A floating rotor is a two piece design but with a certain amount of ‘float’ or movement allowed between the two parts, usually by mounting on washers or rivets with a lip to allow some lateral movement. Floating discs as I understand them are often seen on performance motorcycles and rarely on mountain bikes or e-bikes, though I think my new Magura’s are a proper two piece floating disc.
Any advice on disposing opened containers of dot brake fluid?
Ur local recycling centre only. NEVER a drain etc.
In the US, most any auto parts store will accept used oil (including brake fluid, suspension oils, etc) for proper disposal.
I don't know if it's the cheap brake cables or the cheap calipers or the pads I did a brake conversion made my tricycle disc brakes instead of band brakes the brakes feel squishy absolutely no stopping power you get what you pay for I'm thinking cheap cables or cheap calipers
Fir us avg mtbr's, u don't need different discs per pad type, unless properly cleaning each time u change pad type is too hard for u!
Even then, all pads contain the same organic material that bonds to disc, just in different proportions. Metal/sintered pads are just organic with way more metal flakes in.
So ur unlikely to notice much by swapping pad type on the same disc, once re-bedded. Someone like a top pro might... U or I, nah.
0:01 bran nooo
I've got the power 💪
BikeHead👍
#Doddy said DON'T TOUCH THE BREAKING SURFACE!
Hello from Dublin,
Long time Subscriber...Your Content is mostly Enjoyable and Helpfull...But Please Stop with the Annoying and Destracting Backgrond music.
I like sram centerline rotors
They have improved them with a slightly thicker & redesigned disc... Its way better, with more bite and less lever travel. Orig centerline would be old stock... Trust me, get the new version when u come to replace worn ones
Good info. But to be 100% honest I watch Anna’s videos because I think she’s super cute. 😊
cheap disc = Trickstuff :-)
I've got Sram eTap Red on my Cube CrossRace. Shifting is just genius, but Sram brakes i really don't know. Its really eating up pads compared to Shimano and using dot fluid is way more complicated than using mineral oil. Now it has used the third pair of brake pads in 4.000km. on my E-Bike equipped with Shimano brakes i use only one pair of pads on the same distance. Overall Sram is great but i really wonder why it has this high wear. And i have to bleed the system quite often. I guess every two month. Little bit annoying but performance is great
The constant need to bleed is the reason im avoiding dot fluid brakes. dot systems have this advantage of brake feel and modulation. What i have noticed tho is that they tend to feel lacking in power in the initial stroke altho the pads are already engaging. This is why dot fluid brakes tend to wear the pads faster.
@@zethjugos1250 the fluid used has zero to do with pad wear.
@@zethjugos1250 the type of oil has no bearing on the feel of the brake, and what you describe is not true, shimano and magura etc are great for modulation using mineral oil. Problems with dot are either using old fluid, not bleeding correctly, or you’re leaving it too long between bleeds. Dot absorbs moisture over time through the seals and hoses which lowers the boiling point and slowly overfills your brake over time. The only thing dot has going for it is a high boiling temp, everything else about it is horrible.
Personally staying away from DOT fluid brakes. They do have better modulation than mineral oil brakes but they are just a pain to maintain...
Modulation is the brake design, not the fluid. Infact, dot fluid, if anything, would make them feel more on/off. But it's mainly SRAM that uses dot and their brakes have lots of modulation in the design. So it's rather that they are SRAM, not the fluid
Dot Has Better Heat Management 😎
a fluid cant be compressed, the brake would feel the same in terms of modulation regardless of dot or mineral oil or if you put in water or cola instead. up to the point where the water would boil of course.
@@rupedog yeah, I had sram and hayes before and both had better modulation than my shimano brakes...tempted to try the new sram db8 tho, hope i find them locally
I always wipe the rotors squeaky clean after every ride with 90% grade rubbing alcohol and good quality household paper towels. There's always some black dust to be found. Even after a bike wash.
How come this isnt an issue on motorcycles? Or cars? Cheap china metal or is the whole thing exaggerated to top notch perfection probably scaring people away?
Weight, maybe.
when oil has got to my rotor and pads I just cook them directly on the stove. Problem Solve
Oh my goodness...🤦♂️
That is not a viable solution.
You can never extract the oil from the pads by putting them in the oven, if anything you're baking the oil into the material causing degradation. I can't help but wonder how the heck are you getting oil on your rotors begin with? Are you cleaning your bike with some sort of petroleum baked products? Or are you referring to just normal Road grime? If your pads and rotors have become that contaminated, it is time to get new pads and rotors...ugh.
Sorry, this was informative for sure, but was by no means a "How to" video. It had elements of it, but the most important parts were skipped with redirection to another video. Please make titles more true to actual content
Buy a Trickstuff Maxima. End of sentence. :S