Why do you recommend corner placement for REL subwoofers?
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2020
- There are really two or three components to this. One of the things that's happened is over the years so called experts going back 20 to 30 years started recommending against this. I believe that the origin for this was that the not terribly competent crossovers used 30 years ago tended to cross over quite high.
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When you start doing that putting it in a corner can really tend to exaggerate room boom. We of course do nothing of the kind. Our crossovers all start as low as 20 hertz, and I mean that it would be 20 hertz and below coming through that crossover, so we're operating in a very different sphere.
The other reason we do this is, well it gets you more gain, more output, but that's not really why we're doing it. All the modern RELs play extremely loud. When you use a corner, when you project from a corner across, first of all, you're toed in 45 degrees, we're not firing down the length of the room we're toed in.
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Why do we do that? Because what we really want to do is get the longest throw distance. From one corner to another is typically about 30% longer, which means that we can extend that much deeper into the bass before it hits a room boundary and folds back into the room. Getting that extremely deep bass is really the primary focus of our engineers and designers.
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So the corner placement works really well. That's typical for a single, occasionally for a pair.
When you start moving up into line arrays where we've got six, for example of either S or our reference class it's a very different game. There you've got so much driven base and amplifier power to throw at it that what you really want to do there is connect it up with the main speaker, get them so their time signature is exactly linked.
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But for a single unit, when you're just starting off with a REL the corner placement gives you the deepest, really most comfortable low bass, and it also requires less amplifier power. - Jak na to + styl
Still have my Rel B2 from 15 years ago works awesome
i have to tell that the REL T-Zero Subwoofer really fits !perfect! with the Klipsch fives !
We are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of your Tzero subwoofer!
rel 1508 is insane HT sub. Works wonders for Music.
I don't use a REL sub yet but have been using a decent sub for the past 20 years or so. For single sub, corner placement close to wall boundaries always produced the worst result. Uneven and boomy bass. Single sub produced best result when placed in between the speakers in all the rooms I have tried. It doesn't need to be exactly at the centre between the speakers. It can be closer to the left or right speaker but in between the two.
Thank you for reaching out. While it may not be the case with your third-party subwoofer, with single REL subs we do find that corner placement results in the best possible performance. This is in part due to the crossover on REL subs often being set lower than with subwoofers from other manufacturers, which allows them to be placed in a corner without their output becoming boomy or loosing definition.
@@RELAcousticsI didn’t find that with my Classic 98 in my room, but I’m a subwoofer noob. I tried following the REL suggestions and found the bass was horrible in the corner of my room, sounding slow and boomy. I was initially really disappointed. Thankfully I found a POLK audio article on subwoofer placement and followed their advice and did the subwoofer crawl and ended up placing it a foot off the wall right next to my right speaker, which was close to the centre of my room. It sounds great now, and I’ve been able to increase gain to +7 and crossover to +11 (in the corner position anything above a gain of +3 started to overpower my speakers with boomy and slow bass).
@@RELAcoustics I had my Rel T-3 in between my Quad 12L2s. I was down on the floor with my had on the cabinet (to feel the resonance) and my ear practically against the Rel while trying to tune it. Then, one day, as I walked out of my room and was coming back into the room, I heard a tremendous wall of low frequency sound coming out into the adjacent room. (Don't ask me why I never noticed this before!). So, I came in and started walking all around the listening room. There was tremendous bass presence in the room corners and along the walls, but a huge hole in the middle of the room. This hole is what I had been focusing on all of this time. I relocated the Rel into a corner of the room, but now the difference is even greater. Tremendous bass (especially for a small subwoofer) in the corners, but almost nothing in the center of the room. Is there anything I can do about this? Thanks!
@@stevenblank7303 Thank you for reaching out. Due to the way that low-frequency sound waves interact in a room, it is possible to experience peaks and dips in the bass response, with corners or against walls being common places for a bass peak, and the middle of the room being a common place for a bass null point, especially if the room is roughly square in dimension. Adding bass traps or other acoustic treatment to the room can help to lessen this effect, or adding a second subwoofer to the system can also help to smooth out these peaks and dips.
With a single subwoofer, it will be best to experiment with different positioning options in the room so that at least your listening position is not situated in a bass null point.
I've owned my Ti5 for about a year now with my 600Ms. It is the most seamless subwoofer I've ever owned. The build quality is superb and I smile when I'm shutting down the listening room and the cool blue light shines from the rear! Kudos to John for assisting me via email; he's a great ambassador for bass!
We are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of the T/5i in your system! Thank you for choosing REL, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions or concerns.
My rel is the best subwoofer fast, powerful, impactful, excellent imaging, and has the speakon connector!
Thank you for the kind words!
They're much better subwoofers available buddy! The more money you have the better performing subwoofer you can get. With the right research of course 👌
No dig as REL do sell some good subwoofers.
Thanks John, what if I have a pair of down firing subs (REL Strata III)? Does that change the position?
We recommend placing down-firing subwoofers like your Strata III in corners for optimal performance, though since there is no front-firing driver you do not need to worry about toe-in angle. Corner placement will help to reinforce its output and project the sound into the room.
I don’t place it in corner because my room is small. Easier to manage if not in corner. 😬
REL subs are nice. Easy to integrate too.
My room is small too, and corner placement for both of my subs on either side of my front wall gets me the smoothest and loudest response.
What is difficult to manage about your corner placement?
@@davidrojas6457 ... my room can get boomy. Untreated. A little bare. But the bass is fine with the set up. I just want that bit of extension and am getting it. 😬
I started with my tzero in the corner, then moved it between the speakers. It’s pretty boomy in the corner and tighter sounding sitting between speakers.
Which REL sub would you suggest for a pair of Klipsch La Scalas AL5’ and also a pair of Klipsch RF7 III. I use the la Scalas for music and RF7 IIIs for movies.
At your earliest convenience, feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to provide a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system.
what about a stereo setup? i got a pair of Rel S2, do i need them in the corner or next to the speaker will be fine? room is approx 15 x 16ft. Thanks.
Have a pair of S/812 , I have tried both positions I find that next to the speakers slightly about 6 front the front channel seem to give me a forward presentation , behind the the speakers i find it a bit recessed now this is with full range floor standing Daedalus Poseidon speakers which go down to 28 HZ.
With a stereo pair of subwoofers you have a bit more flexibility, and both corner placement and placement next to the speakers can work well depending on the room and how your loudspeakers are placed. We recommend starting with corner placement of your stereo S/2s, with the front-firing driver toed-in toward the opposite corner of the room. If you find the bass too boomy you can bring the subwoofers out and next to your loudspeakers to see if this gives you better results.
This guy is so clear. You can trust he knows his product.
read my comment please. I am an engineer and acoustician.....never put a subwoofer in the corner
@@Campbell1. why?
@@heartofcinema3454 1) Comb filtering issues.2)Time alignment 3) Does not pressurize the room properly 4) interferes with sound-staging.5) Front wall and corner placements excite the room nodes too much and cause very problematic freq. responses.
In all, bass below say 100Hz is ALL ABOUT pressure, loading the subwoofer to the room and not loading to the speakers. :)
@@Campbell1. ok. So where would you suggest best placement for a normal medium-sized rectangular conservatory with a high celling?
@@heartofcinema3454 I cant give you the specifics without knowing any parameters. Have a look at "acoustic Fields" on youtube. Dennis is the only one online who knows what he is talking about.
Hello I have the ReL Ti9, I hear a little rattle/tingle I have the both high low cable and ReL cable attached. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Thank you for reaching out, and for choosing a REL subwoofer for your home audio system. There are a couple possible causes for the rattle that you are experiencing, and it would be worth getting our service team involved for troubleshooting assistance. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist with resolving this rattle.
What about a single Rel G2? I have a 2.1 setup, I have tried in a corner but I get a humming noise from the transformer inside the cabinet and that is amplified due to it being in a corner. Now it's next to a speaker facing forwards. I have the volume higher but I still get the lows, especially the important mids. Is the humming from the transformer normal?
Are you sure it's the transformer. Could be a ground loop hum....
@@carlitomelon4610 it's definitely not a ground loop hum as I have connected my G2 up just to the power mains no signal from any music source, and still hums away. Maybe because I know it's there I'm listening for it.
It would be fairly abnormal for the G2 to have transformer hum which is audible from your listening position. For troubleshooting and possible repair assistance, feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
45 degrees toe in? would aiming it at the opposite corner be better or worse in a rectangular room?
A 45 degree toe-in angle is a good place to start in most rooms, though ideally the subwoofer should be toed-in so that it's front firing driver is facing diagonally toward the opposite corner of the room. This will give the low-frequency waves produced by the subwoofer the longest travel distance possible in your room before they reach a wall or other room boundary.
Is it OK to place a thick fabric over the sub for decorative and protection purposes against dust or scratches? The fabric will cover the sides but not the front woofer.
Also, it is OK to place a potted plant on top of the sub? The corner of the room is already occupied with a potted plant. Another corner is also occupied with a stand lamp.
Thank you for reaching out. It should be fine to place a cloth and potted plant on top of your subwoofer, though when doing so you will need to be careful so as to not scratch the top of the subwoofer's cabinet, or to get water on the subwoofer when watering the plant. Any damage to the subwoofer resulting from this would not be covered under the parts and labor warranty. In addition, a subwoofer can produce a significant amount of low-frequency energy, which in turn can result in the plant vibrating during bass heavy passages. With some plants this may be fine, though other plants may not like these vibrations.
Do I have to corner load it along the front sound stage? My room layout is best suited to a rear positioned subwoofer
In our experience the best performance and most seamless integration with your main loudspeakers will come from having the subwoofer(s) placed in the front corner of your room, though if this is not possible in your system then you can still achieve excellent results by placing it in a rear corner in your room.
For specifics regarding subwoofer pairing for your system, please feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
Hi John. You say corner placement is occasionally good for a pair. I have the HT/1003 currently in a corner. I am looking to purchase an additional HT/1003 and my Marantz 8012 has independent subwoofer outputs. Would corner placement be a good option here as I'm rather restricted to where the second subwoofer could be placed. Thanks.
Corner placement can still work well when using a pair of subwoofers, though in our experience improved performance can be achieved by having each subwoofer placed just next to the front channel loudspeakers. This will help the subwoofers to blend more seamlessly with your main loudspeakers, and since you will have two subwoofers they will be less reliant on the corner placement to reinforce their output.
@@RELAcoustics Thanks john.
Love my T9i, just need one more lol. Such an amazing sub, thank you REL
I have 1 t9i hooked up to my center channel and 2 s5 sho subs on the fronts. It's pretty amazing to have 1 for each front. You wont regret it at all. Unbelievable how much better 2 are.
I did get to hear the 6 pack of rel 10s a week ago. There are no words!
@Kris Moodley the rels integrate amazingly with speakers. Just hook up the red and yellow wires the the positive terminals with the black wire not hooked up. If u get a hum from the rel the try hooking up the black to chassis ground. It's pretty easy really.
@Kris Moodley jealous of your PL200's! it will integrate VERY well.. easy to setup.. just give it time to break-in
Please what rel subwoofer do you recommend for Wilson Audio TuneTot speakers?
Thank you for reaching out. For a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system, please write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
In a 5.2 set up would you place both your subs in opposite corners?
For home theater setups it can work well to have both subwoofers placed in opposite corners in your room. For both subwoofers you can adjust the proximity and distance to the corner as part of tuning the subwoofers to your room and system.
@@RELAcoustics Yep, that's exactly what I do for my 5.2.2 system, and it sounds great!
Should I remove all bass traps or just the one in the corner with the sub ?
It is possible to use bass traps in the same corner as your subwoofer, though you will need to either raise the bass trap so that it is mounted above the subwoofer, or place the subwoofer in front of the bass trap. The ideal configuration for your system will depend on your room and the other acoustic treatment which you are using, so it would be worth experimenting with both options to see which works best for you.
How do you deal with phase issues with the woofer behind the main speakers
In our experience, using the phase switch on the back of the subwoofer and making adjustments to it's physical positioning in the room will offer enough flexibility to account for any phase issues stemming from the sub being located behind the main loudspeakers.
Does corner placement apply for down firing t5i's ? Got two of'm 🙂
Thanks for info. I do hear the bass get stronger as it moves toward the corner , without getting complicated , my stereo area is just a little bigger than my TV cabinet. It sets in a little cove at one end of the living room. I have a t5i on each side of the cabinet , each sub has about 2 in of space on each side , so its tight. The Tannoy xt6f's are in front of the subs, out in the room a little bit. Sometimes I feel like these subs don't have room to breathe but they sound pretty nice there. I think these would rock a big room also. My living rm sq ft , about 200.
Same here I have mine in the corners same as what he is suggesting here,
Corner placement still applies and is beneficial for the T/5is and other exclusively down-firing models, since the corner helps to reinforce and project the bass into the room. This helps to get the deepest and highest quality sub-bass performance possible from our smaller models.
@@RELAcoustics Hi REL, I have a Tzero placed in a corner. Does the 45 degree also still apply?
Does the corner placement apply to the t5i with its downward firing driver.. ?
Corner placement is especially important with our down-firing subwoofers such as the T/5i, since the proximity to room boundaries will help to reinforce the subwoofer's output and project that output into the room.
@@RELAcoustics thank you for that info. Just 2 last questions before i go and enjoy my t5i.
Is it ok on a carpet or raised on a dedicated platform?
@@oohtob6685 For optimal performance from the T/5i we recommend having it placed directly on your floor, rather than on a platform. The feet on the T/5i are designed to place it's down-firing driver at a specific distance from the floor, and altering this distance by placing the subwoofer on a platform will have a detrimental impact on the low-frequency extension of the subwoofer's output.
@@RELAcoustics maybe it's because of my extra thick woolen carpet but I find by having my stereo t5is positioned on masonry tiles which are sitting on high density foam to sound more Fuller. Due to size constraints I'm forced to have my rels positioned in opposite corners from my bookshelves... a unexpected benefit of having my rels positioned either side of my sweet spot is that I find them easier to integrate!
Click on the red dragon twice hit the rel with q acoustics video to view/listen.
I'm not aware of any other companies who specialise in audio equipment to make such in-depth helpful videos. 👍👍
How can I handle my open floor plan? My real listening area is a 21’ x 12’ living room that is not enclosed. One of the 21’ sides opens up to the kitchen and great room, so I only have one corner in front me, and the other corner about 30 feet away.
There are a few options available for subwoofer placement in open-floorplan rooms, though it will depend greatly on the layout of your room in particular. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to provide placement advice. In your email, please include a couple quick pictures showing your room and the placement of your audio equipment in the room.
@@RELAcoustics will do! Thank you!
@@RELAcoustics well, I sent the email, sent it again and called and left a message but no responses, yet I got the invoice for my order of two T/9xs same day. Hoping once I get these there aren’t customer service issues.
Hello ? Do yuo have a shop en madrid because my subwoofer rel is broken ineed to refear
We are sorry to hear about the issues which you are experiencing with your REL subwoofer. Our distributor in Spain is E. Sarte Audio Elite SL, and they will be happy to provide assistance with repairing your subwoofer. Their website is www.sarte-audio.com/
Why toed? I thought subs where not very directional. Isn't the time signature line up accomplished with the receiver channel delay anyway?
Thank you for reaching out. To get the best possible performance from REL subwoofers we recommend placing them in a corner and toeing them in so that their front-firing driver is aimed diagonally across the room and toward the opposite corner. This results in the low-frequency pressure waves produced by the subwoofer having the longest possible travel distance in your room before they hit a room boundary, resulting in deeper low-frequency extension and more even output throughout the room.
My room corner already occupied. Can I place them beside the speaker.
If corner placement is not an option in your room, then placing the subwoofer along the front wall of your room or beside one of your main loudspeakers will also be an excellent option. For subwoofer placement advice specific to your system, feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to help.
Beautiful quality! I wonder where I can get REL in Australia?
Thank you for watching! Our authorized distributor in Australia is Synergy Audio Visual Pty Ltd., and they will be happy to assist you with ordering a REL subwoofer. Here is a link to their website: www.synergyaudio.com/
@@RELAcoustics thanks heaps! 😊
My problem with corner placement is that you can localize the sub too easily and it ruins the experience. I have to put it in between stereo speakers
Thats amazing. Except that I have two-metre long wardrobes in my corners… Seems like I will still have to do the crawling method for sub placement.
Thank you for reaching out. If you have furniture currently placed in the corners of your room then the subwoofer could be placed next to the furniture, or in another location along the same wall as your main loudspeakers are placed.
For more specific placement advice, feel free to send a picture of your room to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to assist.
Hi i have down firing sub one at front and one at back corner is still ok ?
Having one subwoofer placed in the front of the room and the second sub placed in the back of the room can work very well, and will help to evenly pressurize the space. For specific subwoofer placement advice, feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
REL Acoustics ok thanks.if i have my center and main floor standing speakers set to 80hz and i have my lfe set to 80hz will the subs and the front stage cross over good or is that wrong
I wish that someone had answered your last question Tom, as I have the same question.
Is this true for the models with just a single element like the T5i???
Corner placement is beneficial and still applies for the T/5i and other exclusively down-firing subwoofer models, since the corner helps to reinforce and project the low-frequency pressure waves produced by the subwoofer into the room.
@@RELAcoustics Thanks for the reply, I was more wondering about the recommendation of angling the sub 45degrees in the corner, Can't see that it makes any difference with a single element sub.
@@MrBiggmartinYou are correct that with the T/5i and Tzero you do not need to worry about the toe-in angle of the subwoofer, since there is no front-firing driver on these models.
@@RELAcoustics Thank you
Do you recommend corner placement for downward firing subwoofers?
Ah I found your answer below: yes on corner but no need to toe-in (place at angle). Thanks!
I have a chair made out of 8 sub woofers. Sippy cups are only allowed.
I disagree. It's not about the crossover frequency or filter rate. Corner placement exaggerates all room modes so whilst it will be louder and stronger, bass will become one-note. Room modes will take over and you'll get very strong output at certain frequencies depending on your room dimensions. Measure it even with your phone and a free Spectrum analyser and you'll see and hear certain frequencies being much stronger than others, totally dominating the sound you hear.
And toe-in at 20 Hz and below makes little sense.
This is also my experience. I placed my two REL T-Zero MK III near my listening position in a somewhat smaller room with amazing results in a tube based stereo setup with KEF LS50 Metas. 😄