The Most Common Mistake We See. Buying a Tzero MKIII Instead of a T/5x
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- čas přidán 17. 10. 2023
- Hey there, John Hunter here. We get people who consistently underbuy RELs. Let me explain that. We're really proud of our Tzero MKIII and the T/5X. There's a great pieces for slightly better than entry level systems. What we find though, and this is oftentimes the people new to it, and they oftentimes have actually already invested in a real system. They've got a good pair of five to $10,000 speakers. They've got a really high quality integrated amp, they've got a good DAX streamer, they've got good cables. They're there. And then it's like the stylist scratches across the record. What? And they will come in on something like an Amazon store or to one of our e-tailers. And without asking anybody anything, without checking our website, where we give specific guidance on a lot of the best speakers out there, they make the decision that they're going to buy a Tzero MKIII and the T/5X.
And some of this is so far off the hook that it's hard to believe. I remember the guy that wrote into us on Zendesk. We have a contact us at rel.net piece that's assembled around Zendesk and he was in high dungeon with me. Mr. Hunter, I've watched many of your videos and I have to say I disagree violently with the contention that your subs keep up with these speakers. I'm thinking, what speakers does he have? So I read on, he had a pair of Bowers and Wilkins 802 D2s. It was a few years ago. A $20,000 speaker, a 20,000 pound speaker, and in a room that was roughly 35 by 24 with 11 foot ceilings. And he was in high dungeon because our then smallest subwoofer couldn't keep up with what was ultimately a $75,000 system in about a 12,000 square foot room.
What is he thinking? Not 12,000, sorry, 7,000 cubic foot room. He's nuts. So I don't understand where the disconnect is there. These are fantastic things. If you've got a little $2000-2500, 2000 to 3000 pound pair of high quality stand mounted monitors, fantastic. You'll be in love. It does a great thing. Medium sized room, not a ginormous room. You're gonna love what a T/5X does. In a smaller room, yet again, the Tzero. There are all kinds of people who have a small flat, they have a good, inexpensive pair of speakers, you know, a very modest system. You know, one of the things that we love to pair because they outperform most speakers up at $700 or $800 is project audio's little speaker box fives. They're some that are in the neighborhood of 400 Euro, $400. They're amazing, natural, beautiful. They throw a lovely sound stage and you drop a Tzero MKIII underneath that, unbelievable. I've shown that to many, many friends, who think they can't afford this stuff. But please, if you're building up a system of significance, don't make the mistake of judging us because you mispurchased a piece that was never intended for you or anybody like you. Right? Please go on the website, check out our speaker pairing, subwoofer pairing tool. And by all means, if you don't see your speakers or you disagree or you have questions, if I'm gonna be using it with theater analysts, call us. There is nobody that answers a phone at REL who will try and upsell you. You're not gonna get that guy or that gal and they know exactly how to walk somebody through and help you decode your room issues and your system matching issues. But don't make the mistake of dramatically under purchasing and then returning it and going, well, I guess that didn't work for me. Of course it didn't. It wasn't intended to. - Jak na to + styl
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](/img/n.gif)
I've owned two t9s for 9 years. It's the only component in my system I've never had the desire to upgrade. 100% happy still today! Thank you for doing what you do!
Follow his suggestions. Their website is loaded with information and if you have any questions reach out to them. I was a little unsure when trying to select what I thought I needed so I emailed them all my specs and explained what I was looking for. They promptly replied with their recommendation with an in depth explanation of why and how to hook it up to my system. No up sale pressure either. They suggested a lesser expensive model from what I was thinking. I purchased the recommended sub and I couldn’t be happier. Fantastic sub and customer service!
a candid and thoughtful video, well done.
Excellent point made. Often we, including myself, never seek out the right information and ask the wrong questions. The truth is the truth.
I contacted you about a zero compared to the 5 for my Vandersteen VLR Wood speakers. You said that the 5 would be better for my room size, am I glad you did because this is one of the best systems I have owned. I love your speakers and tell everyone that asks to buy a REL and get the recommendation from REL as to which size. Thanks for making such a great speaker.
I paired a REL S510 with my KEF R3 stand mount speakers and they go so well together 🤗
Agree, I used the REL website before the purchase of the TZero MKIII. It matches perfectly with a Monitor Audio Silver 100s and Peachtree Nova 150.
I paired the T Zero Mk III with my Elac B6.2 speakers in a small room and they are a perfect match! The T Zero brings the music foundation in the bass region even at lower volumes, and this was my intention. The bass is defined and seamlessly blends in with the main speakers, there is no boomy sound. All in all I'm very happy with my pourchase.
Thank you for sharing, and we are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of the Tzero MKIII in your system! If anything comes up or if you have any questions then feel free to let us know and we will be happy to assist.
Your products are ABSOLUTELY brilliant. For an audio system based on bookshelf speakers, it's one of the most important components. I would recommend it to anyone. Not because of bass purposes (that too) but general sound quality and soundstage improvement - best buy. 💯
I think that is what most folks never consider, or even understand, the soundstage and sound quality improvement that a pair of subs can bring to a two channel audio setup. It is not about booms and bangs, it is about balancing the sound, to blend in those lower frequencies with the midrange and highs, so that the sound is pleasing to the ears, the fullness and richness. You do not want to "hear" the subs. A well tuned in sub will not be identifiable in the room.
Nice honest video. I like it a lot.
Just got my Tzero! It is exactly what I wanted. Hooked up via High level . Great little sub.
I saw one of these videos before and that's why I decided to purchase the Tzero MKIII, I got a pair of 4“ bookshelfs on my desktop and needed good quality bass for my music. So far I love it and couldn't be happier.
Thank you for sharing, and the Tzero MKIII is an excellent choice for pairing with small bookshelf speakers in a desktop system. We hope that you continue to enjoy it's performance in your system, though if you have any questions then feel free to let us know and we will be happy to assist.
3k in speakers. Gave the left and right channels a T9i and a T5X just for the center channel. Oh my gosh. Unbelievable sound. Rel for life.
Do you have subwoofer for the LFE channel or are you using the T9i for the LFE as well.
@@rayking507 Marantz cinema series. T9i is set up for main sub output for LFE and general sub bass. The T5X is strictly hooked up directly to the center channel. It makes the center channel really open up.
I have the T5 with Sonus Faber Sonetto 3’s out of my McIntosh MA352 in a medium room and it sounds superb. I turn up the mid-bass on the equalizer and set the REL to 65.
i run two Tzeros with Aria 906's in a small room, awesome!
I own two SVS SB3000 subs, and a pair of these little T-Zero MKIII subs... This is in an "L" shaped dining/living room, roughly 630 square feet of floor space, wood floors, big rugs, 9 foot ceiling with a 15' x 6' window in the front, and another 10' x 5' bay window at the back of the room, both with sheer curtains. The down firing RELs are on the bare wood floor.
I currently have the SVS unplugged, not in play at all. I am running a pair of the Maggie LRS+ speakers, using an active crossover set at around 80-90hz. So, everything above that 80-90 is going to the Maggies, everything below, is going to the REL T-Zero MKIII subs. I am getting some ridiculous bass in this room with these two tiny subs. I have turned them down twice, and right now they are about near off in regards to the volume setting @ around 9 o'clock on both while also adjusting the crossover. I am using RCA cables to both subs as I am using that active crossover. I can feel the bass through the floor and they are pressurizing the room. I hate that word, "pressurizing", but you get my drift. I'm still tuning these babies in, almost there, they are just about invisible and blending well.
I found these little RELs used on US AudioMart for $500, for the pair. I am totally blown away with these stupid little subs, as they are more than enough for my particular room. I don't know what to do with the SVS SB3000's, I don't need them. For what it is worth. Your room will have quite a bit to do with how the bass sounds and or performs. Rooms matter. Bottom line, these little subs may be all you need for at least music. I can see using these little RELs for movie night too, they are that good.
Thank you for sharing, and we are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of the Tzero MKIII subwoofers in your system! If anything comes up or if you have any questions about them then feel free to write in to contacts@rel.net and our team will be happy to assist.
@@RELAcoustics I am simply blown away at the amount of tight and clean bass these little guys can produce. I really tuned them in yesterday and was shocked at how good these sound. And the best part, you do not hear them in the room.
I purchased a pair of rel s/510 to go with my focal Sopra 2 , I know your web site recommends the model up but cost was an issue and I wanted to pair them. Been playing around with them for only one night so far , but I don’t think I’m far off the mark already. Certainly added bloom and body so far. Still have a little tweaking to do tonight!! Happy days👍🕺
Thank you for sharing, and we are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of the S/510s in your system! If you have any questions about your RELs then feel free to let us know and we will be happy to assist.
T5x and monitor audio is a perfect mix.
Well said.
Thinking about pairing 2 x No.32 to the Sony SSCS5
Can’t say I agree with all your posts; however this one is very well said 🤨👌👌
I totally agree with everything said. Great video! Love my T0. But I will whine about the title of the video. I don’t think that the video quite addresses the title, which implies a more direct conversation around the T0 vs T5
Yep. Good catch
I just recently bought a rel t7x with KEF ls50 wireless 2 😳 Holy cheese balls it sounds amazing
not should , should feel , i can give some easy hints how , i think i mentioned in many ranting live videos of last , no week so
Nice video, and a brave one - one question though (and maybe this is an idea for another video): In your Tzero vs. T5x video you suggest the Tzero might be better suited for small speakers because you say the T5x wants a crossover point of 40-45 hz. But there are tons are of $350+, or even $1000+, speakers that aren't designed to go much lower than 60 to 90 hz. Maybe people are afraid to buy anything bigger than a Tzero (or T5x) because they're worried your bigger more expensive models won't reach high enough (?). Maybe that's a purchasing consideration you can address in another video.
In this case change your speakers before investing in a good sub or invest in a price appropriate cheap sub.. I know of no good speaker which only goes to 90Hz in room. In any case there is no issue crossing the T5 or even larger REL subs at 80Hz or 100Hz, though I can't see why you would want to do that with good speakers...
Thank you for reaching out. While the Tzero MKIII can be crossed over somewhat higher than the T/5x, there is no issue with setting the crossover dial on a T/5x as high as 90Hz if this is what it takes to blend well with your main loudspeakers.
I have had the T zero mk3 , and now have a rel t5x , working with a harbeth p3esr 40th anniversary ,while the t5x sounds broader , more expansive , it breathes better , and of course goes lower , I had to say ( for the p3esr ) the t zero mk3 was in general more indicated , it really worked like a true extension from the speakers, it was also a bit more quick and agile ,
It made the perfect complement ( also loudness wise) for the p3esr .
Having said this , am I going to change it ,….no ,
Why ? Once I got used to the signature of the t5x , even if it is harder to better dial in with the p3 esr with the 5x , i get a more broader picture of events ,
Let’s say the t zero is like a lens that has sharp focus , but It is restricted in the field of vision , while the t5x has maybe a bit less focus , but the field of vision is deeper , wider , it engulfs you more in the landscape
@RELAcoustics wich subwoofer version is the best for the polk r400 center speaker to combine? The tzero III, x5 ,x7, x9 or the predator 1510 ii....
When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to provide a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system.
Actually no matter what sub I believe it should be at least worth the same as your front speakers or even more. A pair for the same price is also alright, thats because subs are much more expensive than speakers because of integrated amp and they need bigger cone areas than main speakers optimally or at least more of them. Otherwise they probably will run out of juice much faster than fronts. The subwoofer driver is usually much more expensive than normal drivers to.
Can you tell me the best settings for Level and Crossover for Pro-ject Speakers 5 S2 and the Tx5? Thanx a lot
Thank you for reaching out. Unfortunately it is difficult for us to recommend specific Crossover dial settings, since the low-frequency roll-off point of your speakers will vary from room to room, and in our experience the best results are achieved by tuning the Crossover by-ear. We recommend starting with the Crossover dial set low, and with a familiar reference track playing slowly raise the dial until you hear an overlap with your main loudspeakers, which will result in boomy and muddy output. Once you hear this, you can lower the Crossover back down by 1-2 clicks on the dial to restore a more seamless transition.
Rel are excellent no doubt about it.
Regarding the high level connection marketing I think it is due to tgat every amplifier has speakers level output and not all have preout outputs . I think if every amplifier had low level output them REL would have been marketing rhe LOW level connection.
All of those connections are good . Low level is jast as good as high level connection if not better in certain cases.
I'm looking forward to finally being able to afford a decent HI FI system, and my eye is on a T9X as I want the system to be 50/50 music/movies.
I am trying to make sure that at low volumes, I get good sound and dynamics still without high volume, is this a good choice or would an S510 be better at lower volumes?
Thanks!
Thank you for reaching out. Both the T/9x and the S/510 can perform well at low output levels, though the S/510 has more amplifier headroom which means that it can play louder than the T/9x.
If you would like assistance with determining the best subwoofer option for your home audio system, then at your earliest convenience please write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
@@RELAcoustics Great thanks I will do that.
seems like a backhanded response to recent measurements on the tzero, which revealed that it is not so much a “sub”woofer
Have you got a link to what you're referring to?
It's not possible for such a tiny box to be a true subwoofer unless they change the laws of physics!
@@povertyspec9651 Have you heard one, or a pair of these T-Zero subs? I own a pair, along with a pair of the SVS SB3000's in a medium sized room. The T-Zero subs, used with an active crossover, dig incredibly deep. And they do it without bloat and or decay, they are quick on the draw, and holstering. When I first unboxed them I thought WTF did I just do? These things are tiny, around the size of a muskmelon. I plugged them in where the SVS SB3000's reside, plugged them in via RCA to my active crossover, fired everything up, tuned to ear and was blown away with the sound quality. These little subs are beyond impressive, I was listening to a cello dig deep, I could feel it in the room. Everything I have thrown at them, with a pair of Magnepans, has sounded incredible. No comparison with the SB3000's, which sound a bit slow and bloated next to the little RELs. Then the overall soundstage, it is just bigger with the RELs, as they so easily blend in with the Maggies. I need to try these with my Zu's, and the active crossover, which was the icing on the cake and really brought this two channel system together.
Dear Team,
My system is Magnat MR780 (hybrid) + Heco Celan Revolution 3 (shelf speakers).
My needs are specific : get space, deepness and better reproduction of smooth soft base of cello, double bass, bass guitar, tenir sax, voice.
Percussion punch is always welcome nut it is not priority.
So I am looking for "Leonard Cohen" effect.
I listem 90 % jazz and vocal ( Houston Person, Ben Webster, Diana Krall, Patricia Barber) and I listen very low, very quite.
Room approx 25-27 sqm.
My devicer are not listed on yours Web site so please advice if may I try with 9ne or two T Zero?
Because of problems with space this could be best solution but what do you think about sound?
Please advice.
Thank you for reaching out, and for your interest in REL Acoustics subwoofers! When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net with this information and our team will be happy to provide a pairing recommendation specific to your system.
I have a pair of the T-Zeros in a larger room, using a pair of Magnepans, and have never heard a cello dig so deep. And I have larger subs too, these T-Zero units continue to impress with the Maggies, the T-Zeros are staying. One tip, use an active crossover, that will in most cases create a night and day difference in overall sound quality. I currently have the Rolls SX45 in my system, my Sublime Acoustic crossover is in the mail right now. I cut my frequency at around 80hz, the music has never sounded so good.
@@michaelwright1602
Thanks for answer.
I 've got advice from Rel also and they adviced go to T5x rather than T0.
Must check your Rolls also.
Recently added a T Zero mk3 to my system of a Rotel A11 tribute and Polk R100's which resulted in a more audio enhancement than a subwoofer sound, I'm perfectly fine with this as it made my modest system sound sweeter without any of that boomy sub sound.
mkIII go well with kef lsx2?
Thank you for reaching out, and yes the Tzero MKIII can pair well with the KEF LSX2 speakers in a small listening space.
Hola que tal , tengo unos Dynaudio excite 14 , escucho rock que tal se vee con un rel TzeroMKIII ,, gracias
Thank you for reaching out. If this system is used in a small enclosed room then the Tzero MKIII can be a good match for pairing with your Dynaudio Excite 14 speakers, though for use in a medium to large room we would recommend the T/5x as being the preferred option.
@@RELAcoustics mil gracias
The actual issue was not so much that the T-zero could not "keep up", but that the B&W 802 D2 simply plays around 20Hz lower than the T-zero, so that sub model added no sonic value.
You need to run an active crossover, it will make a world of difference in the overall sound quality of those speakers with the right pair of subs. There are several good crossovers out there, Rolls and Sublime Acoustic are two... A good starter crossover is the Rolls SX45, cut the frequency around 80hz, some like 65hz, or 90hz. Feed the Low frequencies to the subs via RCA, high frequencies to your amplifier. This will take the stress off of your amplifier and really allow your speakers to breathe with the stress of the lower frequencies being pushed off to the subs. It can be a night and day difference in overall sound quality.
@@michaelwright1602 Good insight. However the tradeoff is adding another distorting component between the Dac and preamp. I have the Dynaudio 9S sub, which has a built-in crossover, but the manufacturer advises not to place it before the preamp and only to use it to connect a second sub.
how about 2 Tzero MKIII's vs 1 T/5x?
Thank you for reaching out. In some cases a pair of Tzero MK.IIIs can be a better option than a single T/5x, though in other cases the single T/5x will be the preferred option. It all depends on the main loudspeakers that you are using, and other aspects of your room and equipment.
When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to provide a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system.
I would say if room and budget allow get dual no.32. End of story
What an emotional video.
Twenty thousand dollar speakers and a five hundred dollar sub really
There appear to be too many people being both wealthy and pretty uneducated.
The output capability of subwoofers comes down do basic physics: "how much air can it move?"
The room will have a greater effect on the actual sound. I am continually amazed at what two of these little T-Zeros can actually do. I am seriously considering boxing up my pair of SVS SB3000's. Seriously.