THIS Got Me WORRIED About The FUTURE of EU5
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- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- EUROPA UNIVERSALIS 5 latest Tinto Talk is scaring me.
✅ EU4 Guides: ✅
✅ 1st Dev diary - • I WAS RIGHT !! EU5 Sta... ✅
✅ 2nd Dev diary - • EU5 Political MAP is H... ✅
✅ 3rd Dev diary - • Here's WHY EU5 Starts ... ✅
✅ 4th Dev diary - • The BIGGEST EU5 NEWS S... ✅
✅ 5th Dev diary - • Here's The EU5 Great P... ✅
✅ EU5 prediction video - • EU5 Is Here & Starts i... ✅
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Europa Universalis IV is a grand strategy games published by Paradox Interactive. All rights reserved. This is an unofficial video, not endorsed by Paradox Interactive.
The following DLC is used in this series:
Eu4 King of Kings Domination Lions of the North Origins leviathan Emperor DLC, Dharma, Rule Britannia, Cradle of Civilization, Third Rome, Mandate of Heaven, Rights of Man, Mare Nostrum, The Cossacks, Common Sense, El Dorado, Art of War, Res Publica, Wealth of Nations, and Conquest of Paradise. THIS is Getting Me WORRIED About EU5 I'm Not Sure THIS Is THE DIRECTION EU5 Should Be Going... Latest Tinto Talks Got Me WORRIED About EU5
#eu5 #europauniversalis - Hry
![The New 1.37 Inca Is The REAL Sunset Invasion Experience [EU4 Inca Guide]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6RzNNpRZhhM/mqdefault.jpg)
This is what your 1337 EU5 start will looks like from a historical perspective - czcams.com/video/ILVVWge8ah0/video.html
just play meiou and taxes mod in eu4 its basically copy paste of this in video
The thing I worry about is it could be 200$
I really don't mind waiting a few years for a good game. I quite like the complexity, and maybe you can automate a lot of the different systems that you don't want to use yourself? That would benefit the people who don't want to get really into it, or help everyone learn while they start using more and more of the systems without automation
"With the 'hon-hon's, sacred blue, my name is a Baguette, cheese omelette." - Ludi 2024
I'm English so I have to screw with the French by obligation, sorry :)
Paradox is already a niche gaming company and yet every game has had more players than the last. I wouldn't worry about it failing to attract new players.
Ah yes, unique building for different cultures.
l can smell that Finnish Sauna already.
If not, it looks like mod support will let you add a bunch of culture specific new buildings.
@@edwxx20001 The sacrifices temples in Mexico (You need population)
@@RomaEternaVictrix that would be amazing....but dunno if it's gonna be the same for tribe-like civies
Having macchu Picchu in the capital of the inca civie would be neat too
You need a DLC for that one
And the dutch coffeeshops.
I always hated the fact I can t do economic warfare in Eu4. Now I will be able to weaken my enemies even at peace. Also naval warfare appears to be waaaay more important now since blockades seem to actually pose a threat
I'm going to really enjoy the game from day 1, but the reviews will be mixed like vic3. I have no doubt in my mind
Imagine cutting off water to inland country 💀💀
@@tuxtitan780Victoria 3 is a economic simulator, people know it, people buy it, and then proccede to talk trash cuz too much economy
@@caiofhoepfner8491 People don't hate it because its "to much economy" they hate it because the warfare is trash
@@caiofhoepfner8491economic simulator my ass
I May not speak french but i think hé just said to schnappledoop the belgians
No, no, no! He clearly said "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smells of elderberries."
i think this is the most ludi think ludi could say
He clearly said “with laughter praise God I am called bread”
I am french. Message received, we start the secret operation.
I'm Spanish. We're watching you closely.
Im American both of you keep taking my money
@@sutixela I'm German, i also exist as a friendly peaceful neighbor
My CPU has just become suicidal
game: 500 Deutschmark
the rig to run it: 5000
totally gonna buy it tho
Actually,THIS got me EXCITED about the FUTURE of EU5.
Economic depth and complexity is great for a GSG like EU5. There are many players who find it dull to just paint the map and conquer new lands, but would instead prefer a tall game with internal development. This gives so much more options and possible strategies, if implemented correctly. And since Johan is in charge, I am sure it will be.
If castles need goods to function and you can cut off supply by occupying surrounding locations, that means sieges will become a living mechanic. Cut off access by occupying locations around the castle to starve the garrison instead of "you have a -49% chance of capturing the fort in 30 days"
It’s going to be fun being a trading empire, the Hanse was able to boycott entire countries so imagine taking out major powers by cutting off weapons and food
Trying to appeal to magical wider audience usually goes to shit, so being the autism in game form is the way to go.
So hyped for this game.
Dedicated 'tism has to make a comeback. Fuck them normies.
100% agree
bingo
Exactly. How did that work out for IR? lol
Autists shall inherit the world (of EU5)
Let CK3 be the simpler, more normie friendly game. EU5 needs to be epic, with all the best parts of PDX grand strats put together and expanded on. Personally so excited for this incredibly ambitious game!
Ck3 is so normie friendly its easily their worst game ever released and one of thr most boring experiences i ever had the pleasure of playing
you can clearly see that Johan is using the lessons learned from Imperator: Rome, a game that sadly failed at launch. You can already see the "2.0" update of imperator was awesome. Seeing the combined mechanics of Imperator with EUIV seems amazing to me, especially now these buildings actually use the resources found on the map.
Still hope they will revive imperator though! the game mechanics in the end were pretty dope, just felt empty with events/national focuses/cultures/timeline not being fleshed out, which would have happened through updates... :(
so much this.
I'm so excited to see a game which mixes the best mechanics of EU4, EU3, Imperator and Victoria in a single game. Like, why are theh being annoyed that they're adding more details to economy, that adds economical warfare which was a thing and makes the game harder, more realistic and remove the absolute trash that was EU4 Economy
Ahoooo! Completely agree. Lean into what you do best.
Don't "creative assembly" your fans.
It might be "eurocentric" to name the game after Europe, but yeah, that would be entirely appropriate. This is the time period in which Europe spread everywhere across the world. Europe Everywhere, Europa Universalis. Makes sense.
We live in the post-logic society, so its up to chance
From my perspective this is the best Tinto Talks so far
Dev Diary!! lol
Well then you really are
Lost!
@@jonboulet1614 how?
I just hope that they didn’t take too much from Viccy 3!!
Yeah we don't need that garbage of a system in here
Trade and resources were always boring in EU, EU:Rome and Imperator:Rome. Maybe it is Johan's try to make them useful and interesting again... Let's hope I can auto it though. Vic3 trading every few minutes, over and over again doing the same, is just not fun
@@misterbeach8826I feel like it takes away from me making my name as big as possible, but I could just be a casual Eu4 gamer!
@@Hyperblowfish Yeah. Imagine managing 200 factory buildings in EU5, through huge Excel table UIs, because your empire is growing and has 300 provinces. Just awful
Yep! You can automate it! As well as the production methods! @@misterbeach8826
Very excited for a game where a trade war isn't just something to make absolutely sure not to click under all but the most esoteric circumstances. Just imagine the Napoleonic wars playing out where the French employing continental system to strangle British access to markets is a phenomenon actually reflected in the game mechanics. Who knows, if we're really lucky there might be a system that handles nuances like the reluctance of other states to commit to embargoes and Napoleon's reasons for invading Spain and then Russia become rational actions and not just mission tree incentives.
From what I did understand, you don't need to actually have a demand and stuff like victoria 3, you can just stockpile them without any problem. The only thing you have to worry is producing more of them than what you are using. With that, I do see the automatization being a good way to just ignore this part of the gameplay if you want to not care about it. I personnaly probably will do it manually ( I will see once in game tho ofc ) but I do think that for ppl that don't want to manage it, it won't be a problem to set it on automatization
I don't know about that, Johan talked about granaries/other local storage buildings for provinces.
If the automatization works so well as in stellaris then you might be always in red😂
Yes. The system is way simpler than Victoria 3 so you can easily automate it as there is no pop wages and consumption preferences and stuff, the demand side seems to be very abstracted so it should probably be easy to automate without creating any issues. Johab confirmed there are macros so you can get goods you are missing with one click
It's not zone of controll what frieghtened me, but the part when they said each building gonna check automatically the production methods each month. Add pops and assumingly a few other backlog checks and it can get out of hand quickly.
I hope it won't be anywhere near as bad as Vic 3 and Paradox figures out their backlogs before release.
they won't figure it out. vic 3 and cities skylines 2 are still dog shit
Stellaris is still laggy and I imagine this game will work identically to that one. That game basically has culture (species) job (resource) and population mechanics in place. It's laggy like crazy.
I read a lot that this is too close to Vic3. You dont know yet how extensive this will be and how hard resources will be to come by. I do like that this expands a bit because only having ducats from goods is boring and it will be cool to also have this as an expansion reason. Maybe you really need those opium fields in the east because uhm you like gardening a lot or smth. I think this could be really cool as long as it is not too excessive and just adds to the overall flair. I say that as someone who really doesnt like the Victoria games too much but in imperator I think it is lowkey well made so if it influences buildings and population now too why not
its gonna be a mix between ck3 vic3 eu4 and a bit of hoi4 like stockpiles
Using opium to destabilize countries by being top drug dealer is a meta I could get behind.
Needing opium fields for gardening etc would make zero sense and kill the atmosphere in this game because unlike victoria 3, middle ages didnt really focus on resources but more on religion etc. Literally no one fought each other in europe for taking land resources.
@@jaimelannister8631 it was a joke and yes resources also sometimes were part of reasons why you'd fight.
@@jaimelannister8631 that has to be the most ahistorical take lol
I don't think my laptop can play this game. Considering how much processing happen in background from the different pop and now to this trade goods.
I plan on investing in a new rig around the time it’s released cuz it’s gonna be a doozy
Nvidia geforce now streaming, sadly :|
It's EU...how the hell can someone not play it?
I like the goods diversification, always hoped goods would play a bigger role. Trying to monopolize certain ones and deeper embargo mechanics could be fun
the infamy thresholds could be split between an early one that results in embargo, and a higher infamy one that causes coalitions. EU5 shouldn't start with a global market so it should be very important to either get the resources you need or make sure you make friends with the nations that have the goods you dont have.
Le message secret est bien compris😂
actual trade goods? Oh my god.
As a french, I connect deeply with the meaning of your quote. I am profoundly touché from your consideration for us.
I think the trade and economy aspect could be really interesting if it's kept relatively simple. Historically there have been tons of strategic alliances and wars over resources. The need for specific trade goods has a huge geopolitical impact. Imagine a CB that's something like "Take their resources".
I think the big risk here is making it too complex. Using broader trade categories would be a nice middleground. Make the resource you need just generically "food" instead of grain, wine, meat, etc. Metal instead of copper, gold, iron, etc.
Anyway, I think this could be good if done right but theres definitely a risk they could go too far.
Well it would be nice to make broad categories like food but I think they already stated there will be around 70 trade goods.
Make goods broader categories, and leave it to modders to add more goods and make it all more complicated for those who wish to have that. That'd be the best thing to do imo
Or not even to take resources, but you could have wars to just gain access to certain markets while denying access to that market to your rivals, because of the resources that are traded there.
USA roleplay lmao
Yeah, screw the wider audience.
If you are not smart enough to play a game, what are you doing with your life?
the only game they should draw inspirations/mechanics from for EU5 is Imperator: Rome tbh. imperator is such a good and balanced game that would help EU be a bit finer overall without losing its EU identity
GIVE. ME. SUPPLY. TRAINS!
They were so good in Imperator as they make so much real-world / historical sense to include and they were a much bigger deal in the timespan of EU than CK / Imperator as during that period armies were smaller and could forage more reliably.
Imperator is good but the economy is lackluster as well as trade, EU5 looks much better
Imperator rome isnt good
And its even less balanced xD
You literally NEED mods to play it
I don't think pulling from the worst failure they've launched is a good idea.
@@Bleilock1 yeah my bad, I honestly completely forgot that I am playing with the invictus mod.
Do you know if they have a track record of implementing mechanics from modded community content?
Higher amount of trade goods makes sense cause in EU4 provinces produce goods, in EU5 locations will produce goods. So country with 30 provinces in eu4 have 30 sources of trade goods. But the same country in eu5 will have more then 100 sources of trades goods. So it makes sense for them to be more diversificied.
That's a good thing in my opinion if they don't try to catter to a bigger audience. Paradox should really focus on what they do the best : complex grand strategy games. (every company should do this imo, when you lose your core audience things aren't great usually). The fans will buy every DLC for EU5 if they deliver a good sequel with good DLCs, especially when EU4 is their most famous game at this point.
No point to do another dumbed down Victoria 3 where nobody is happy, neither the fans or the new comers. That's my take on that !
can't wait to spend kongolese cobalt mining family's yearly budget on dlcs
They ruined my Victoria franchise so bad it almost makes me wish they do the same to Europa just out of spite.
@@JediTiga Pls no
IMO local Market is the main market where your good produced are being sold. Fe. for Poland it should be Kraków. So all provinces/locations that are trading in Kraków, will have their local market as Kraków, and as it stands-> access to all good produced there.
Aparat from that, you'll have foreign markets, fe. Venice, Genoa, etc. where you'll be able to somehow trade (trade missions maybe?)
Fully agree, it's vital that one's able to either automate everything or micro manage everything. The main reason why Eu4 is the flagship is because it's simple enough to try & want to explore deeper. I'm sure CK3 is great but I tried twice to launch the game & got bored exploring my options even before unpausing.
nah there are several things in that game that just makes it feel boring after a short time, especially compared to CK2. Not that I am not aware of the extensive life time of CK2 but CK3 just doesnt hit like CK2 did when it first launched, there is something off about the new titles.
ck2 after reapers' due and holy fury and stellaris and hoi4 did outclass Eu4 .
for past 5 years their best games on steam were hoi4 , stellaris and ck + cities skyline . so eu4 being a flagship was probably for a period of 2 years from 2014 to 2016 when country ball memes and peak anti migration right wing peoples were using the game for their fantasies but that faded over time too
The reason I dropped ck3 is not because it’s complex, it’s actually not very complex once you understand it, I dropped it because I learned how to break the game and never lose. While all of the other nations are constantly breaking apart mine just gets bigger and bigger till it reaches critical mass and It’s completely unstoppable, never lose land and I just have an unstoppable empire way too early for it to be fun.
Ck3 is boring shallow game
Everybody gets bored after 50 hours
Rest is just denial cause you paid so much money to be bored so you cope
It literally says you can automate stuff.
at this point it feels like EU5 is basically Imperator and Vic3 having a child.
The key to success, IMHO, will be a very good tutorial and that all of these different systems connect in ways that are intuitive, feel good to connect and alter, and most importantly, the system as a whole looks simple and is easy to learn, but then opens up to more complexity, options, and depth. This would be the key in on boarding new and old players
something along the lines of "easy to learn, difficult to master". It sounds as if there'll be ways to (probably less effectively) automate trade and such. "Easy settings" might include buffs to lessen the impact of such inefficiency, allowing the game to be learnt mechanic by mechanic as players try to figure out how to manually optimizing things without their campaign going to shit. Plus, I doubt playing as a smaller nation will be quite as terrible as others here claim. Lumber and stone will likely be plentiful as the trade good of most locations
On the issue of how hard the game will be, and how many neurons a player will need..... I think they should make it hard. But the accessibility for new players should be eased by *much more* information available in-game than in Vic3, for example, and *much more* availablilty and quality of introductory tutorials etc. This is where previous game releases have slipped up (and I'm looking at you Vic3).
And I think Pdx should be actively using the CZcams community, like Ludi, to provide that introductory (and more in-depth) schnapps etc to help new players learn the game.
I will say this, I have never played EU4 but mostly because I first started playing Paradox games with Stellaris, eventually moving to CK3, HoI4 and Vicky3. However EU4 always just seemed "unapproachable" from the combination of old/arcane looking UI, MASSIVE dlc back-catalogue, and of course the nature of Paradox games having tons of things to learn when you first start them. EU5 seems like the perfect opportunity for me to get into the EU series, I love the complexity of Paradox titles, and now that the UI will likely be much easier to engage with and the DLC back-catalogue problem won't be there on release: It's almost a surefire purchase for me.
So while I can certainly understand your worry about newer players bouncing off, there is at least a contingent of us that are looking for EXACTLY THIS. I can't wait to play Europa Universalis for the very first time!
Because of that I love to watch your videos. You dont just read the text from the dev diary. You also analize it and make predictions which makes you special. Thank you!
i am watching this so focused, like tryin to learn and finish some course.. can't wait
from the way Johan spoke about making sure the game was ready and bug free in the earlier dev diaries, makes me hopeful that it will be playable on release and will be fleshed out for the most part. But I am also worried and trying not to get to hyped at the risk of being disappointed lmao
I like the idea of weapons and armor being crafted instead of magically pulling it out of you ass.
My friend recently just started getting into HOI4 and I recommended for him to try out the Fallout total conversion mod since he just finished the Fallout TV show. I asked him how it was a few days later and he told me that it was difficult for him to play because it's a challenging mod for newcomers. I've been playing Paradox games forever and I know most of them like the back of my hand so I just casually recommended him a not-so-noob-friendly mod because I forget the learning curb sometimes.
another amazing video Ludi!! Very excited for trade video!
I'm ok wuth not appealling that much to new players, because sometimes when something have a niche audience and they trie too much to appeal to a new one, it has a very big chance to make the the old base angry, and to not get enough new people to cover for it. The main problem regarding the player base part for me would be EUIV players who were never that much atracted to a more complex economic system and liked the game for other reasons, and could feel this game isn't what they're looking for. I definetly agree about your worries regarding the game not working well at launch, but I wouldn't mind wainting more if it means the game will be good from the begining
Well, colonies, trade posts, survey posts, but I LOVE that you said dividing a province if multiple ppl are investing in it.... that's awesome, and allows for more natural maps. Would also love it if a province gave multiple goods, grapes AND iron, so you have to choose between which good to produce based on your current status as a power. Coastal provinces always giving you small amounts of fish and salt while maybe something else of higher value. We have to play these provinces up, why isn't access to fresh water a play for provinces/economies/wars?
First of all, love your analysis of all the Tinto Talks and additional infos given away by Johan. And props to you for all correct predictions. And since the next dev diary will be about trade, and this one gave a fair share of info about goods and all that stuff, I've got some thinks about trade in regards of what we know so far, and I'm curious what you might think about them and how wrong I am.
The most concern I've got right now is regard to maritime trade and how it will works. Let's take a Dutch for example. To maintain they high cloth production, they have to buy a tone of wool, for example from England. And so, trading across the Channel, souldn't be very demanding, since the very close proximity between them. As Ludi predict for land trade, there should be some lines on the map between ports and ships comming through, like carts or caravans on land, but that's all.
The very other thing should be about long distance trade. Sticking to the Dutch, as they were trading, for example spices from Asia, we would need a special type of ships to do so. And since we have a distinct quantities of each goods, the ships could have some haul size and each idividual ship would have to physically carry that amount of goods, from place we bought it to our home port. So we would send a fleet of merchantmens to India, after three months of sailing we would have to spend gold to buy Spices and load them on ships, then wait another three months for them to get back and then our home marcet would get 3 Spice units. Then we could consume those Spices, for example to increase happienes of Nobles, Clergy and Burgchers or sell them off to neighbouring markets. This way also we could have good functioning piracy mechanics, since we could set up our fleet as corsairs and then snipe out foreign merchantmens and either stole their loads or simply sunk their ships, causing them to lose money without any profits.
With what you mentioned at the end about too complicated I feel like a more hand-holdy tutorial like CK would be welcome in a game like this more than the more hands off open ended one from Vic 3, a specially designed tutorial campaign to have new players go through the motions at least once, heck they could maybe even use an Irish OPM for it again to introduce concept gradually.
yeah i dont see how know that a building needs wool and wood for instance is hard to be fair. Its nothing like victoria with lots of variables, pop needs, wages, dividends, taxes on profits, investment pools, Standard of Living, etc. With a good UI and a good tutorial it should be as easy and accessable as EU4 is now. Instead of navigating through 28472 sources of mana and modifieres and buttons you just need to produce certain goods.
I'm visualizing two parallel economies: the one you can access to and extract from and the one that moves outside of your reach. If this is the case the meta would be to stack "administrative reach" modifiers.
Regarding the worry of difficult for beginners, maybe they have a system of selecting what tasks do you want to do. I remember a football manager where you can simulate a lot of tasks and you take care only of what you want. I am thinking that this could be a possibility. Even for experienced people in strategy games, this could work as tutorial.
My concern about the trade system you outlined: either the AI will go completly belly up when you block their trade because it will not know how to cope or it cheats ok ressources and doesn't care at all. I would be amazed if we see another outcome
I was just thinking, and I don't belive the building will have a gold cost alongside the goods it consumes, I think the cost of maintaining and of building the different buildings will be the cost of purchasing the goods it needs to be built/maintained. That way a country with an abundance of a certain type of good might have a lower cost of maintenance for their forts and so one.
I base this off of the production methods screenshot for the paper mill, where the revenue of the building is based on the prices of the inputs and outputs
an interesting tinto talk, in some ways it even gives me vibes from other games (CIV with the mat requirements, even an older game that was actually called Caesar believe it or not, when buildings would upgrade the pops inside would want more things) Personally as a EU4 and before that EU3 enjoyer the complexity really sounds amazing but I too want a game that is easy to get into but hard to master. I want this to be a game I can try to get my friends into which sounds more difficult the more I hear about it. Hopefully they have an answer. Personally I dont mind the name EU5 but im not against some sort of rebranding if they wanted to have it something that rolls off the tongue better
Creo que justamente para poder no espantar a los nuevos jugadores es que desde ahora mismo están poniendo que se va a poder automatizar distintas funciones, acá mismo se muestra la economía o los destemplados automatizada y seguramente haya mas quedando la opcion de automatizar para los nuevos jugadores y micro gestionar para los veteranos.
Un abrazo grande desde Uruguay 😘
At 25:00 you mention changing production method to increase amount of food stored. I interpret it more as chsnging the type of food stored. As an example, in the old system mentioned you'd build a granery for a certain type of good. Now they changed it to allow you to change the type of good stored and maybe upgrades for amount. Or am I interpreting this wrong?
This is just Stellaris Universalis. And thank god for it
Football Manager game system would be appreciated regarding the complexity and hands-on approach. Yes, you can go very deep with player training, tactics, etc. But you can delegate most, if not everything to staff. I`m currently playing FM2023 and am managing only tactics, transfers and contracts. All the training, 2nd and youth teams I leave for AI. It`s not the optimal min-max way to play, but allows me to enjoy the game to a degree I want and progress in reasonable speed.
I just hope the AI is able to adapt all of this mechanic like if the AI is lacking this said resources they would find a way to find it either through colonies or a much easier option is haggling with the nation that has it in order to trade. So if I have glass wares for example the AI will either try to produce it themselves or try to be friendly with me.
As the player we should also be able to set conditions for trade like a higher tariff towards this nation or total embargo. The same goes with the AI.
The more I hear about this game, the more Hyped and excited I become. A bit worried that they might try and rush it like they did Imperator Rome. But guess we will have to see. On the down side, I think my computer might have to start looking for therapy sessions, since not sure how much processing power this game will take.
This game is the longest game that has been in development. IR was only 2 years. This has been already 4+. Plus 1-2 until release. So i would not worry about it. They just need to release it at some point as the company cannot be paying out of its own picket a whole studio of 30 people for ever. At some point they will need to release and start making money
I wonder how they will handle the industrious revolution. I'd probably be happy if they didn't have it at the start (although the system would advantage already developed areas) and dedicated a whole DLC to that and modeling specific "social" revolutions such as that one or the mercantile revolution
I've played for a while EU4 and it made it difficult to find a game that could stand up the sheer complexity due to becoming so used to it. Also, if you have a niche market- you have a captive market for better or worse and you could argue that every game released since EU4 by paradox has chased this market to varying degrees of success but look no further than Vic 3 for what could happen to a VERY niche game trying to appeal to a wide audience. It ultimately made very few people happy and took some time to become something worth considering.
I can see a lot of trade goods ending up at the bottom of the Mediterranean sea. Will scuba divers be included as a special naval unit just like marines in EUIV.
Having locally trained diver teams to harvest pearls for a Jewelry/Gems good would be pretty cool, let alone flotsam scavengers
I'm fairly sure the candles are the number of religious pops this building employs. We know from TT8 that the stone quarry will employ 1000 peasants/slaves in Kalmar, and the stone quarry has 1000 "hat and pitchfork" things, which seems to be peasants. The other symbols along the top are a mystery (upgrades, likely, and a encyclopedia link), but the triangle with the sword and pitchfork is likely either raises or lowers aggression in the peasantry (I am guessing lowers for a church).
I think the beer icon might be for grains or cereals in general - there's some grainy looking stuff to the side of the beer and I suppose you'd be making beer any place you're making grain for flour and stuff.
Would be good to have a building system where you could automate based on the influence you have, e.g. you'd allow buildings to be built in "core" provinces without limits (depending only on resource availability), meanwhile in newly conquered provinces or certain regions you don't want to/can't afford to build you'd limit to certain level or prohibit.
I can put 5 neurons together when I want to, but the game has to make me want to. The thing I'm wondering is will the complexity make it slow paced. I'm not interested in my average campaigns taking longer than eu4. Doesn't seem like that would be great for CCs either.
I really love that they do dev this game for EU4 players, and not for everyone. Everything for everyone is nothing for anyone.
The fort mechanics in EU4 are honestly pretty awful. I don't recall exactly what's different in Imperator, but it's the basic concept that is all wrong in my opinion. Forts shouldn't block movement entirely, except maybe through the province itself. Instead they should hinder invaders in more indirect ways, as well as allowing troops to shelter within. A fort that isn't besieged could perhaps slow the movement of enemy armies nearby, and the zone of control could hinder occupations in nearby territory like they already do in EU4. But most importantly, they should hinder supply lines - which should clearly be implemented in some form in EU5, based on what we know of the game's mechanics thus far. In general, my biggest gripe with Paradox games is the simplicity of logistics - Imperator did at least have some progress in this regard - and specifically forts should be key in improving on this point. Sufficient enemy fortifications could still make bypassing them practically impossible, at least unless you put them under siege, by simply attritioning your army to death. And furthermore, forts you hold yourself could serve as secure supply bases to maintain your supply lines.
Good point regarding supply lines and logistics. HOI4 seems to have a pretty advanced logistics system and it'd be cool to have some sort of system in place for EU5 to make it so before you go to war you need to plan out your movement and supply lines.
It depends on the area I guess, in my country, many forts or rather fortification 'lines' guarded vital river crossings or entry of river estuaries by ships. without taking the forts, it would be almost impossible to get the army further inland, let alone supplied. of course this is entirely different form just having a 'fortified city' or a castle, which have very different functions. I hope they can somehow represent these differences ingame.
I think the reason why they have the current system is not only to help the AI, but also to somehow represent the importance of siege-warfare in this time period. If you could just ignore forts then you don't do the time period justice. I mean, many of the longest sieges in history occur during this time period, sieges lasting for years on end... it's amazing to hear the stories about the siege of Ceuta or Candia, malta or, closer to my home: Antwerp, Oostende, Haarlem or Leiden. Sieges sometimes taking years, or even more than a decade. So there has to be an incentive for a nation to endure these sieges somehow, though I agree the current system is flawed indeed.
Hello Ludi, I have been watching your videos for some time now, I just hope with this new game to have a system to keep you motivated to do a start to end campaign, for me every time I start a campaign, I stop after around100 years into the run, maybe I have to much expectation from PDX
In Victoria 3, there is an option to mix classes to lighten the game so in EU5, they can add a "chill mod" with lots of things done automatically by IA so the player can really enjoy the game
In Stellaris, auto-build mechanic helped a lot and I think they must add this feature to their game is they want a vast EU5 community !
i love that ambitious approach, hype will be high as sky but whatever i will play it
All of the paradox games used to play very differently. EU5 just looks like they're merging Imperator, CK3, and VIC3
Imagine they take the staff system from hoi4 😅
Not true, I felt that Vic 2 and EUIV were very wimilar at that time (tech / army / province system)
I would love for different types of colonization to represent the how different nations colonised different areas
Every new Tinto Talk I'm more inclined to believe it will be a great game, yes, but I'll probably keep playing EU4 for a long time, cause 5 is going to be way too complicated
EXACTLY MY POINT
More complicated, MORE ITS DA BEST😂😎
I hope it won’t be like Vic 3 with unsatisfying economy system.
Man up schnappledupe
I think it's better that it's different from EUIV in a lot of ways, it is totally okay to have both games have relevant player bases. trying to appeal to everyone (new players, veterans and the like) is what proved to be a mistake in the past, making instead a game that appeals to none of these groups...
seems like they want to bring more micro/macromanagement to the game, like 4x games like civ5. since the games starts around 1444 we will have ways to auto manage resources production? (like in Vic3 with private companies).
6:57 Embassies or... trade related bulding for merchant republics... or other types of organisations (like Hansa), or maybe even religious buildings for spreading your religion to nearby countries (christian missions like Portugal did in Japan)
lot of options ;)
The reason I like EU4 so much is that once you learn the basics of the game, it's really not that complicated. You can very easily tell what's going on with your economy.
In Vicky 3, so much shit is going on at the same time, everything is so fluid it's hard to keep track.
I really hope they don't make the trade/economy mechanics too complicated
So, are you saying you don't want the game to be too hard?
What about players who like "hard", and find "being good at hard" an advantage?
@@davereckoning5910hard and complicated are two different things, if you want complicated, just play meiou and taxes
@@davereckoning5910eu4 is simple to handle and hard to master.
I dont want eu4 be vic6
i am concerned about the multi- processors optimization, which is to say how well the game uitilizes multiple cores on the cpu, i dont know if you had touched the topic previously, but i hope you at least make a video about it whenever you personally gotten the info about this part of the game in eu5, or tell me which video you made that had talked about the topic. thanks for the work tho
I do not know about this. I do not play EUIV for the micro management. else I would play CK2-3 or Vicki
Needing mulitple specific resources for each unit; boat and regiments etc, makes me scared that only playing wide will be viable 😢
A fair concern, but there is trade, so as long as you have decent trading partners it shouldn't be an issue. The idea of like a native American in 1400 making steel is ridiculous (don't at me, they didn't even have iron working until European contact in north America.)
thats a VERY balance specific thing
if you can just go trade focus and get all the resources and level up super far, it might make playing tall the only viable thing
i assume there will be balance, if there isn't there will be mods
@@SireBab i mean under this system unless there are specific restrictions a large enough American Native will have access to all the resources required, I suppose they can lock building access until certain events.
@@Maric18assuming dumb AI that doesn't embargo you.
@toddyoung913
They had all thus land and resources yet they didn't use them irl.
I assume some resource extractors will be locked.
Feels that this is like what Black ICE did do to Hoi4… make is EU super detailed and super complex…
I also think that they may be going overboard with all the trade goods (likes candles?? Bro??) they technically have more trade goods and building types than meiou and taxes currently. I think that they should scale back or do what meiou does with the trade goods where they are sor of standardized, i.e. coal produces fuel, which timber also produces, they are treated the same in the trade/output system, like you dont produce coal or timber, you produce fuel via 2 different way and different amount (coal produces more cos obv)
"can only build in othere countries" + "specific tags" means = Hansa Kontor, a trade building specific to the formable tags, "the hanseatic league", or "slaver camps" for the triangle trade (if they model it).
This part is perhaps the best part of the dev diary, they break the rule, that only conquest is blobbing. If they do the buildings right, a strong economy do not need to conquer, it can expand over "trading psot and co.".
That’s kinda a big deal and not in a good way. Cuz at this point the difference between EU5 and Victoria 3 will be non existent. I understand that trade is important but if we have to micromanage the economy it’s just gonna be Victoria 3 but in earlier period. To me EU games are conquest and diplomacy focused game not an economic simulator. There must be a distinction between the game series.
God so depressing
Automated construction would likely be a thing. They have that in Vic3 as well.
Don't care.
I'm here for the Victoria 4 Mod.
How can you make a game focused on politics and diplomacy without a good economy system? Economy IS what dictates everything in a state, no matter how primitive it is, and trade is a vital part of that. Making those systems more in depth doesn't mean the game can't make some things automated to reduce the amount of micromanegement needed, and if we have more options with wich to run the economy then that's all the better. I get that this has the risk of being too much if Johan and the team don't try to make it more digestable, but taking into account the work on Imperator and Johan's claim that they have learnt from past mistakes why would we take the changes to the economy as being automatically negative
Economy is an important factor for conquest and diplomacy. EU4 economy is trash and EU5 sounds much better
Cant wait for EU5! Great clip :d
I think that the systems being introduced are great for the grand strategy genre, but new players need to understand what the game is before playing. You mentioned Civ and Total war and how players that like those will be overwhelmed playing EU5. They will be if they play it like total war and Civ (And even experienced EU4 players) where the gameplay loop is 1. declare war 2. take max land 3. repeat. It's super boring after you play a couple games and any favour is just bonuses to do that faster. EU5 looks to be MUCH less "blobbing" focused even though it will be possible. When I recommend Eu4 and Ck3 to new players I always start with "There is no real objective to the game so never feel like you are falling behind, just make your own goals and have fun" and it looks like there is more opportunity for that in this game. Super excited to see how long the tutorial will be though lol
Looks like in EU 5, wars might become more realistic- instead of just pure border painting, you might be interested in taking own of locations with strategic goods present, or at least securing easy access to markets providing them.
Maybe even, wanting to dominate markets and be sole producer of given goods ?
ok this is going into a more complex direction i am not sure if i want that because this conquering stuff and keeping the rebels at bay and expanding industry and so on keeps me realy busy now i have to take care that i have the right materials and whatnot it brings too much stuff to make it complicated. i will test it and if its nothing for me i stick to eu4 thank you for the video.
you got it the other way around. All the blobbing and dealing with rebels in EU4 is precisely due to the lack of an interesting peace time gameplay. EU5 will change that, naturally bridging the time one would otherwise just wait for AE to lower enough
@@bierwolf8360 ok good point i am no pro gamer i have still so much to learn in eu4 too ;) i have sometimes times i have to make peace because i have too many loans :D
I think to make economic warfare more powerful they need to do the (historically accurate) thing of really sharply limiting credit. It would be good if nations with perks in banking have a big advantage just by being able to continue a war longer.
that's confirmed to be the case in one of the previous videos. Credits can be taken domestically from the estates (limited by their wealth) and from banking nations. Defaulting also seems to have massive repurcussions (estates will likely be extremly angry, foreign banks won't lend again, etc)
Would be cool if when building the castle/bastion/etc it showed you the are of control of it
So we are going to play Factorio in EU5 🤔
A lot of what's been shown reminds me of Vicki One, I can't wait to see the final game.
Because Johann left the victoria 3 project in the middle half when he realised that his visions were not being realised. In a nutshell, he wanted to build on Victoria 2.
End year was confirmed to be around 1836/1837 (as it was 500 yearsish after 1336.
I loved that market system implementation. EU4 is a economy simulator, and all economies engage in war to strengthen their economy. Those limitations/requirements make resources so important. As long as we avoid the pikemen taking down tanks CIV scenario, but also we have to remember pikemen may take down tanks if it's a guerilla warfare. This game is great, I'm glad it is evolving but I would love it if the game offered alternatives. Like, 'books'... well in the real world, if you didn't have paper, you would carve into stone. So would you be able to use stone for some book items, like a school where ppl went to learn? You don't need to have books, you need to be able to study the content and stone carvings still carry knowledge, but obviously it would not make sense to export stone tablets when paper is available, so the market would dwindle.
I just love it when there's materials required, and you get further into the rabbithole with them. You need glass, but you don't have sand to make it. You need charcoal for metallurgy, but you don't have trees/lumber.
But I do hate the land type requirement for buildings, BECAUSE the game never takes into account that ppl will adapt and form their own types of building that serve a similar function given the terrain type. Floating agriculture by the Aztecs, Incan marathon runners when roads are limited, greek residences built in stone.... etc. Humanity always adapts, and that would be a cool feature to have evolve organically, unique style buildings, but that's more for EU where you develop new countries/cultures/random new world maps, etc.
Agreed. Not sure why people are so worried about complexity. Its quite simple you just need to worry about the supply. There is no GDP, pop income, pop needs, SoL etc. The goods literally replace mana and modifer stacking. As in instead of worring about lots of modifers and how to stack them and how to minmax mana you just need to make sure you secure x amount of stone or wood each month. And its automated by the market so you just need to make sure there is enough in the market by trade, building or conquest. But it serves the same purpose as mana, to have a limit on player snowballing.
You cant spam an army of 60k if you dont have enough materials to support it so you need to have an economy to support it first. Its simple enough
This Dev diary has had the most positive reaction so far. Dont listen to the few normies who dont enjoy GSG games. If they only like war they can keep playing EU4, civ, etc. The overwhelming majority LOVED this system
The concern is not the initial audience reaction. People usually love it when devs pile on detail ("And you can zoom in and see the monk actually transcribing the manuscript!"). The question is if it will be fun to play, or if it will feel like filling out a tax return over and over in practice.
I tend to agree that it might be overcomplicated, I mean paper and books both as resources? Potatoes? I was really impressed by the lack of granularity in the pop system it seemed like a refinement of previous pop models that fit the time period very well, but the goods are headed the other way. hopefully it won't be too complicated for beginners.
I think they should focus on making the playerbase that they already have happy, which they are doing. And the people who are currently working on Project Caesar are very passionate. In my experience, when a game is made with passion and without audience in mind, it will usually be so good that it does end up attracting a big audience. Please make the game as complicated as possible :)
So is project caesar an imperator rome mod for the EU time frame :p. I do love IR though, so that is a good thing!
Love you Ludi!
Hey Ludi, do you still enjoy vic 3 or are you focusing on eu4 because of project Caesar.
People play paradox games for the complexity. I hate how vic 3 and hoi4 are so easy. I can abuse the AI and be number 1 great power in vic 3 within 1870 as most countries. I love the direction they are going.
Reducing the level of abstraction and adding compexity generally makes AI perform worse, not better, that´s why the AI in HoI 4 is so bad in comparison to the (not that impressive) EU4 AI.
@@gulgnu From my experience I grew up playing eu3. ck2... etc. It's the little things. Victoria 3 was a big disappointment because of its simplicity.
Unlike gold mines, the EU4 virgin mines will never deplete regardless developement
I am so hyped for this. Im most looking forward to:
1. Achievements
2. Mission Trees (different ways to play nations)
3. Save scumming
The problem in there is no main focus of hustory. Important things happen everywere all the tine. Still the name is fine. Keep the name but give other areas more attention. That fixes the problem way better tgat changing the name and still making ever ither place unimportant.
I love this kind of colony race, but im hating the specific building idea (as presented), because, until the Industrial Revolution everyone was trying to be as self sufficient as possible because trade was incredibly unreliable (look at the great cough we just went, and that was happening all the time)
Ludi, the global economy is shifting, the goal can't be always expansion, but maintaining what you've got
this is not true at all, I'm from the Netherlands and our famous 'golden age' happened almost entirely because of international trade. not merely with overseas territories/trade companies, but with eastern european ports.
Wood and grain from areas like poland/sweden/the baltics gave a HUGE boost to our national economy, providing wood to make even more trade, a huge population boom (because the Dutch soil was not enough to supply sufficient grain for our population and we had chopped all the forests already), actually not trying to be self sufficient is what made us stand out and prosper...
hell, we even fought wars with Denmark over the Sont/toll system to keep this vital trade alive. we also traded a lot with the Portuguese until its personal union with spain, causing Portugal to 'join' (unwillingly) in the 80 years war.
This forced the dutch to get the trade goods Portugal supplied from the 'indies' ourselves, making the Netherlands the colonial power we know it to be.
So yes, you are right partly about trying to be self sufficient, but there certainly was a limited form of 'globalism' before the age of colonialism and international trade was enormously important in this time period, even still in the late 16th/early 17th century. Don't forget about countries like Venice and Genoa who supplied Europe with exotic goods for centuries, until the Ottoman empire started to conquer the middle east, abruptly ending these trade troutes, thereby causing countries like Portugal and Spain to find their own routes!
I think it's perfectly okay to have a system to represent a certain scarcity of goods, it forces countries that want to stay 'on top' to be either diplomatically sound with trade nations or get the goods themselves, or fall into a decline if you fail to adapt (like Venice did), exactly as how it happened in history
I am really glad you mentioned your skepticism i think even if you play eu4 though this is going to be more complicated then eu4 im afraid of the same thing thanks for voiceing these concerns