Do Amish really shun their youth?
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2022
- You might have heard some say that Amish "shun" their youth. Is that really the case?
More on shunning: amishamerica.com/shunning/
amishamerica.com/why-do-the-a...
On joining the church: amishamerica.com/when-do-amis...
amishamerica.com/how-do-amish...
amishamerica.com/what-is-rums...
My name is Erik Wesner and I'm not Amish. Back in 2004, I met the Amish while selling books. Since then, I've visited 5,000+ Amish homes & dozens of Amish communities. My book on Amish business, Success Made Simple: An Inside Look at Why Amish Businesses Thrive, was published in 2010. I run the Amish America website: amishamerica.com/
Image credits: Don Burke (www.flickr.com/photos/ozarkin... Jim Halverson; Don Shenk (www.amazon.com/Seasons-Lancas... Jerry in PA; videvo.net
False. I have lived amongst three different Amish communities. One in Wisconsin, two in Ohio. I live directly across the road from the local Amish school. And I have SHELTERED teens who have been put in the ban from this current community and have ZERO contact with their family. The same in Wisconsin.
This video is untrue.
So, if you are saying they were "put in the ban" then you are suggesting the teens were baptized already. Which would make them church members. So, that would be consistent with what's said in the video.
Now, if they weren't baptized, but still somehow "put in the ban", this would be a quite unorthodox practice. If they didn't make a baptismal promise, there is no basis to excommunicate them - they're simply not in the church. They're non-members. But, as I often point out in these videos and elsewhere, there can be odd and unconventional things out there in corners of Amish society. So, maybe.
Third option, being "put in the ban" is a formal step undertaken by the church. But if they (family, community) simply informally began having nothing to do with them - which as I suggest in the vid, yes, does happen in some communities/families - then that would be something else besides official church discipline. Maybe similarly strict, but not the conventional "shunning" as it's done among members who've taken baptismal vows to uphold church Ordnung.
So which one was it in your case?
@@AmishAmerica not according to them. And they know their community, their elders and THEIR ordnung better than you do. You cannot generalize all communities.
@@AmishAmerica you need to stop, because there is a REASON that so many across the country are fleeing the Amish and the Mennonites - these are abusive cults in too many instances; children are being beaten and raped, women are being raped and impregnated, male members are losing their families and incomes to megalomaniac elders and bishops. Look up “rape conviction Amish” or “fraud conviction Amish” and see how many hits you come up with. My brother just recently prosecuted another embezzlement case with the Amish here in Ohio. You keep trying to put this Pollyannish spin on these communities, and act as though you know everything because you’ve visited a few, but they are not nearly as orderly, as innocent or as clear cut as you try to make them out to be.
Your comments here have lost me a bit. I precisely do not generalize all communities. I hit this point so often I feel like a broken record at times.
Maybe you haven't watched a lot of these videos where it comes up - that's fine. But, this point even appears in the question I posed to you, that I didn't get an answer for.
(You answered "not according to them", which specifically is what lost me. Not sure what you're referring to).
The new subjects (abuse, fraud, etc) you've introduced here deserve discussion, but are not the topic of the video.
(Btw, from last week: amishamerica.com/amishman-sentenced-for-sexual-abuse-after-community-reported-him/. Lots more coverage like that on my site under the relevant search terms.)
But again, since you brought it up. Could you simply answer which of the 3 situations in the first reply, a), b), or c), fit the cases you describe? If your situation does not appear in the 3 I described, please feel free to explain.
Yeah, your "name" and your description pretty much says what you are about ... tearing articles apart for your own amusement.
Interesting topic. Years ago my son's orthopedic doctor told us he was raised Amish and was shunned by his family. I wonder if that was because he chose to continue his education and become a doctor. I never questioned it, but always thought it was sad. I couldn't imagine shunning any of my children over religious and career choices. I remember that he did see a lot of Amish children in his practice. The community certainly trusted him.
did he join the church and leave? Or did he leave before joining? That makes a big difference... Also consider, that the same (or similar) thing does happen in English homes when one person ventures out on his/her own... we used to call them the 'black sheep' of the family because they no longer have the same interests. If he made a commitment to the church and then left, he may face shunning because that is one of the rules of most communities and he knew it when he joined.
Right, my two questions are 1) did he ever actually join church? 2) I treat "shunning" as a synonym for "church discipline". But as noted I realize people might just use it as a blanket term for anything from a cold shoulder to what non-Amish might call "being disowned". Might that be the case here?
Sorry, but I don't know the answer to your questions. I wish I had asked him. My feeling was that his family gave him the cold shoulder. He is a wonderful doctor and has the best bedside manner.
I was around amish for 10 yrs and if their children choose not to join the church they were shuned by the family
me too. I had a couple that I bought fresh eggs and milk from and neither family would talk to them. They were wonderful people - had something to do with the two groups not getting along that they were from if I remember correctly.
Well, yet another well done video covering an subject of Amish life - and I am yet again better educated. Thanks! :)
Thank you for covering this. I've always been very curious about this.
Good to hear this said. The cruel shun myth is one of the most unfair ones commonly associated with the Amish. And choosing to join a church vs leaving one are two very different matters, agree. There's no Rumspringa holiday for shunning your community's faith & beliefs after the fact. The expectation of respect works both ways, I think.
Thank you Erick for your insight.
Again thanks for the interesting video.
Fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing
Thank you for sharing
Thank you for the explanation.
Thanks. Good info.
I appreciate that they allow their children to make the choice for themselves. Great video. TFS 👍
Knowing very well the consequences if tgey dont. They do it, so they can be treated fairly as the rest.
Erik,
Thanks for dispelling them myth. I live in an area of NW PA with lots of Mennonites and Amish and have noticed more than one person who has been raised Amish but instead chooses the Mennonite regligion instead. Do you know if this is common else where?
It's not uncommon especially in places with a good number of conservative Mennonite/Beachy Amish church alternatives. Holmes County is another example
Thank you!
Great video. Is it possible to do a video on the difference between the ban and shunning?
Thanks Candy - yes I will do one on that general topic
@@AmishAmerica Thanks. I think it would be interesting.
I love your videos
My daughter's boss was raised, joined, and married within the Amish church. She left the church and divorced her husband, who is now Mennonite. She is still on good terms with him. Her family hasn't shunned her but she is treated a bit differently. Her mother works for her regularly. But her father will not go away with her if she is the driver. Also, some Amish will not work for her or allow their children to work for her.
My grandmother left the amish community in her 20s and was shunned. My mom did not get along with her. Then, shunned me for not wanting to go to regular church as a teen. Now my children shun me. It had a lot to do with the twisted beliefs - passed down to us. How children are treated, especially.
Shunning effects many generations to come. They need to realize that. God says to be patient with the failibgs of the weak, not reject and stop loving them. Or treat them as tho tbey have no worth.
This is what they do. It causes a lot of damage.
You need to interview Eli Yoder. He has a YT channel.
@UCaRpNU6VN1dwO-cWyvgzP0g it is very heartbreaking. Many of their stories or horrific. Eli is doing an excellent job telling how it really is.
I think he is doing fine the way he is doing it... Not all YT generators need to connect -- they specialize in a different aspect and that is fine :-)
No..... As a whole, no. Generally when a young person makes a choice for their future it is supported by the family. It may not always be happily supported at first, but the family and community still loves you and wants nothing more than for you to be happy, healthy, and safe. The community wants you to understand that they DO want you to always reconsider coming back. Family is strong in the Amish community. They don't condemn you for choices that you make. If you do leave the community you keep it quiet. You lead a good life and respect your roots. Don't do anything that could negatively impact your former brethren. I think this should hold true for most family situations?
In the romance novels, shunning happens a lot, but I don't think a loving Amish family would be that harsh with their grown children. If the young-adult child chooses to go outside the faith, I imagine the parents are heartbroken, but certainly they'll still love and accept him/her!
Many dont and are not allowed too. Even shunned by siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins. Like you fell off the face of the earth and don't exist anymore. Because if tvey do - theyll be made to pay for it.
Thank you for in depth explanation
How’s it going!! Awesome video!!! I wonder if there is any local amish business in laurel fork va do you know anything about that community and oh yea I just some amish in my small town Wendy’s lol They kept smiling at me 😂 but I think they were working for a guy and going back home to union grove nc
Thanks! So I've been hearing about that community - I was even nearby-ish a couple weeks ago but didn't have time to check it out. I only have heard some Amish have been moving there, but don't know much else. Do you know how many families might be there now?
@@AmishAmerica I have no clue all I know is I saw at least 3 buggy signs and a few houses that looked like amish like the plain style and there’s lots of farmland up there so I can definitely see a good size community thrre
It's on my list to visit next time I'm in VA! Beautiful area up there
@@AmishAmerica yes it’s beautiful I think I passed by like 3-4 tiny home business by them it was like eggs and fabric made from them at like a house I remember seeing a sign on the side of a house of them selling stuff like that
I’ve got another question what’s the song or soundtrack you use for the intro and video for the videos
I respect the Amish, love their simple life. I could not become Amish, but I could definitely live like them, living a simple life including riding or driving a horse and buggy in 2022, and letting go of all public utilities including, maybe, the cell phone.
Christian Martin 8 grandfather born 1669, an Anabaptist minister, was imprisoned in the Trachselwald Castle for 15 yrs. (1717-July, 1732) for "Religious differences based on the baptism you had to be 18 -21 - beliefs contrary to the Catholic Church." He immigrated to America September 21, 1732 aboard the "pink" Plaisance with his wife and 2 daughters, Fravin Martin (16) and Fronik Martin (child). A "Marta" (Martha?) Martin (child) is also mentioned. Christian lived at Weaverland with his son David until his death.
By the time the Anabaptist religion was founded, the rulers who held Trachselwald were Reformed Protestants, not Catholic. It was the Protestants who persecuted the Anabaptists. The Anabaptists sought refuge in Catholic France. js
I think it depends on the specific Amish community and the person's family if they are shunned or not.
That is 180 degrees from what ex-Amish on other channels say.
Probably because they're using the word "shunning" much more broadly (eg, what used to be referred to simply as being disowned).
My point in making this video was to draw attention to "shunning" aka Meidung as a church practice for baptized members (not unbaptized youth).
Even if in a practical sense, in some cases the way the wayward youth are treated might be more or less the same as church members under discipline are treated.
Basically it's about correct language vs. sloppy language
I think that so many of us have seen the modern-day movies involving stories of the Amish or read some fictional books which are stories of the Amish, they always seem in involve shunning of one or more characters. I don't typically believe what I read especially if it's Fiction, but my question stems from those who join the church and then don't follow the rules for their church community or they leave the church, would they then shun that person and if so, does the church hierarchy not play a part in the shunning process, especially when they continually break the rules, maybe more so in the very conservative groups? I'm a parent, and I cannot ever imagine telling my daughter that she is not welcome in my home or at my table, but I know of families where this type of thing happens for many different reasons. I'm sure this topic will bring up many questions, most of which I'm sure you will cover at some point and because of your acquaintances and friendships with the Amish I trust in the information you bring to us. Thanks Erik.
👍👍
I am so incredibly interested in the Amish! I don’t even know why lol
It makes sense the way you describe it in this video. As you mentioned in your replies to comments in this thread, the definition of terms do matter. There's shunning in New England among the Yankee Protestants (who might not belong to any religion nowadays, or even believe in God). I've heard it said by native New Englanders that they are the shunners par excellence, having perfected it from Colonial days. For them, it might have started with Church discipline (the Salem Witch Trials, whatever the ultimate source of suspicion, in nearly all cases involved Puritans accusing Quakers -- and the Quakers weren't witches, they were simply despised). By the 19th century this shunning had just become a part of the culture, keeping outsiders out and insiders in through use of strategically placed cold shoulders. Listening to others, and reading comments, it sounds like the popular culture idea of shunning is nearly identical to the New England model. But by and large, that style of shunning seems foreign to Amish culture, albeit allowing for individual community differences. However, the Church disciple of excommunication is another matter, and the Bible says that if a baptized member of the Church obstinately persists in sinning against God by denying His Church, then that one is to be cast out and treated as a tax collector. If the Amish are sincere in their beliefs, then of course they would excommunicate a member that renounced the Church. It only makes sense.
Glad to hear this, though I will admit it certainly make writing for some female characters that leave the Amish family before committing harder. That is a good thing though, as it gets me outside my comfort zone and has me learn about voices that usually go unrepresented (or poorly represented when counting those "Amish Reality shows.")
But then what do they do? Do they continue to live in the community? Or leave? Would they be allowed to continue to go to the church? Or be excluded?
If you only have an 8th grade education it limits your future prospects, so does this increase the pressure to go outside the Amish community?
There is doctrine but what happens in actual practice? Look at the Catholic Church.
I have personally met a former Amish young man that was kicked out of his house at 14 because he told his father he didn't want to be Amish. His parents and almost all of his siblings will not speak to him or have contact with him. He told me that he lived in the woods for a week before someone (non-Amish) took him in and gave him a job and a place to stay. He's in his twenties now and doing well with a construction business. And he hires Amish people to work for him!
He's allowed to work with Amish (or they are allowed to work with him) because he was never baptized.
The Amish are people too with imperfections.
If a person decides to not join the Amish church, but wants to continue to attend is that possible or no?
It's a good question - at some point, if someone has not been baptized and is getting along into their 20s, odds are they'll end up joining another church. It would be odd to want to continue regularly attending church into older age yet not become a member. Not saying it couldn't happen somewhere...just that with the passage of time you become more and more the oddball, and "unseen forces" are probably going to move you along in one direction or the other.
Maybe explain exactly what shunning is to the Amish. Many have an idea of what shunning is, but maybe it’s not by the Amish definition. I was in a religion for a long time and I did leave it, and I’m now shunned. This particular religion and shunning is extremely harsh. It separates families and even if their child is in the hospital they will not go see their grown baptized excommunicated child that left their religion. I honestly do not believe it is this way with the Amish even for baptized grown children that have left their church.
Curious if a person does not join the church can they live in their parents home still?
Yes but they've got to eat separately
Do you have a video about the allegations regarding sexual abuse amongst the Amish?
Not yet. The website has a good number of posts on the topic
@@AmishAmerica thank you
How do the Amish feel about how they are perceived in media and film?
If I answer, will you read the reply?
They should be more strict. Otherwise they will get more and more influenced by the general society
I think shunning is terrible. Jesus would not shun anybody, he would hug and comfort them!
He said they don't shun their children who don't join the Amish Church through baptism.
Strange out of touch people