As a sometimes-verbal autistic adult, I concur that the affects can correlate from the viewpoint of allistic medicine and individuals. But my neurology, as you note, is very specific and complex. I empathize differently- not less.
From a high functioning autist: Autist do have empathy (at least I know I have it). The problem with autist is that he or she often doesn't realize beforehand how his or her words will be received by neurotypical people, simply because the structure of our thoughts is different. And the tragedy of life is: once you realize the damaging nature of your words because you have spoken and you see the effect of your words on others, it is often to late, and the damage can't be undone and the words can not be unsaid.. If have seen many things break in my life because of this. But the big difference between the autist and the psychopath is that the (high functioning / intelligent) autist does notice and feels really bad when such things happen (at least I do), while the psychopath simply doesn't give a *.
The televison series "Hannibal" dramatizes the differences and similarities between the autistic FBI profiler Will Graham and the psychopathic Hannibal Lecter.
What if you have an autistic person who can lie to you about emotion and other symptoms. Serious question though. Manipulation is a learned tactic. ❤ I'm autistic and I'm very interested In psychology. I wonder If an autistic person, with enough childhood trauma Could learn sociopathy into adult life as a defence mechanism ?
What about long island mass murderer who had alot of autistic traits, like really bad social skills? And his son was diagnosed as autistic? Could there be genetic similarities that same genes could cause both?
Who said that it was a dichotomy, they were just explaining the difference between the two so that people don't think that Autistic people like me are Psychopaths with no empathy. We just don't express our empathy in the same way as Neurotypical people. We express it in an Autistic way. We would never hug an Autistic when they were sad unless they asked us too because we wouldn't want to make them feel uncomfortable as well as sad. Autistic people actually find the way that Neurotypical people show their support to be condescending and not helpful. Between us we will show our support by letting them know that we DO understand what they are going through by telling them about a time when we went through something similar. But if we do that with Neurotypical people, then they will think that we are "making everything about us" when they were looking for someone to validate their feelings. We all know that when people have cultural misunderstandings you can end up being rude and offensive to people when you have said or done something that is perfectly acceptable in your culture? But what happens when you try to explain things? They already think that you're an asshole and that you are just trying to get away with being an asshole by feigning ignorance.
No there is not. In a narcissistic family system the child with ADHD/AuDHD is often the scapegoat and rather than NPD has c-ptsd from being abused by the narc parent. Neurodiversity doesn't make someone more prone to narcissistic traits. What is true though is that nd are much more bullied and abused than the general population, which can lead to all kinds of personality disorders and mental illnesses. The most common psychological problems nd have are depression, anxiety, ptsd and ocd. As mentioned already nd communication works differently. I'm HSP/SPD and have all the sensory stuff, but not to the degree of having autism. Most nd have lots of emotional empathy and problems with cognitively reading people. When we talk we often relate to a persons story/ experience emotionally. So we connect and relate emotionally by telling each other our experiences. A lot of nt people just want sympathy though ( I'm so sorry this happened to you.) and validation not empathy, especially not emotional empathy. They feel it takes away from them. So in nd people the "selfish" communication style comes from using emotional empathy over cognitive empathy. Narcissistic people just want to talk about themselfs. They won't actually relate to you at all. They lack emotional empathy and are good at cognitive empathy.
As someone with autism I can tell you that this correlation isn't absurd. ASD and ASPD have overlaps so it's completely possible for someone with autism to also have ASPD as well as someone with ASPD being incorrectly diagnosed with autism and vice versa. Now ur son might be the sweetest and most honest boy in the whole world, who likes following rules, who never does anything out of impulse, who never gets irritated, who is responsible, and who shows a lot of sympathy, but most people with autism aren't like that. Your son might be a saint but he's not a saint because of his autism, he's a saint despite his autism
@@machoke666 my son was thrown out of 2 schools early in life for meltdowns, uncontrollable behaviors. Yet he has a conscience, does not scheme or manipulate, all the things (psychopathy checklist, Dr. Robert Hare) that come with psychopathy. His psychiatrist, and psychologist would never agree with such a thing. Also, what are your credentials?
There's 7 diagnostic criteria for ASPD, you have to meet 3 of them in order to be diagnosed, manipulation is just one criteria ergo u don't have to be manipulative to be diagnosed with ASPD. U have preconceived notions about people with ASPD. In terms of credentials, I have none, but don't shoot the messenger (that's a logical fallacy), just read the DSM-5, it's possible to have both diagnoses
@@Alliecat670 many surgeons are people with psychopathy, they wouldn't be what they are if they are not responsible, or if they are manipulators, or if they are uncontrollable snowflakes.
@@Alliecat670I'm 41 and was diagnosed with autism at age 14. And in my experience I definitely have shallow affect. Mostly I don't feel many emotions and when I do they are only felt in a shallow type of way. So that could be similar. But all the other things are different. There is no grandiosity, there isn't any conscious manipulation even though an autistic person may try and run the show. And remorse still exists if the person believes something to be wrong. There is no pathological lying, more often autistic people are honest people. So apart from shallow affect, almost everything else is different. But the shallow affect seems like a shared feature of both
Can't someone with autism also be a psychopath because autism is a developmental disorder whereas psychopathy is an umbrella term for personality disorders. (As I understand it, I am not a psychologist so please correct me if I am wrong).
Probably would be possible but, it's also possible to confuse symptoms that look similar on the surface. Psychopaths are usually described as skilled manipulators and charmers, which requires finely tuned reading of people in order to emulate charm that will work on them. Autistics usually read people very poorly. So much so that they can grow up unable to respond appropriately to others in social situations. In this sense it's hard to imagine these two coexisting apart from in cases of misdiagnosis of which there are probably many cases
Of course, there's no limit to the number of things that you can have and be diagnosed with. It just means that you have had a hard life and you are going to keep having a hard life because you have so much to recover from. You will probably have difficulty getting the help that you need because if you're still in contact with what would have been abusive and or neglectful parent/s, then they are probably not going to help you out. You are probably unable to get a job because you are to get a job in your condition, so you are probably not going to be able to afford the help that you need. Governments need to wake up and realise that it would be a better investment for them to pay for people to get help with their mental health issues so that they are more likely to be able to work, and less likely to drink and do drugs, and do things that will send to prison. Plus, they will be able to be better parents for their children and not keep repeating the cycle of generational trauma.
@@LaraKimThere is a limit because some disorders fall off as the stages of its type progress. Think schizophreniform disorder to schizophrenia, for instance.
I doubt it. I mean, if you conflate diagnosis with reality, sure, but then you mistake map for territory. It is unlikely that any cluster b personality disorders are sustainable strategies (and they are exactly that, defensive strategies) for an autistic person. It's like asking if someone in a wheel chair can be a mugger. I mean, technically, sure, but not likely
Your comment has only had one like for a reason. Autism is a disorder. Here in UK it recently surfaced that 98% of people on the spectrum are long term unemployed. And you say this is the result of a hyper connected brain? If that's true why are all these hyper connected brains unable to succeed in holding down careers?
As a psychology master's student, thank you for this.
As a sometimes-verbal autistic adult, I concur that the affects can correlate from the viewpoint of allistic medicine and individuals. But my neurology, as you note, is very specific and complex. I empathize differently- not less.
From a high functioning autist: Autist do have empathy (at least I know I have it). The problem with autist is that he or she often doesn't realize beforehand how his or her words will be received by neurotypical people, simply because the structure of our thoughts is different. And the tragedy of life is: once you realize the damaging nature of your words because you have spoken and you see the effect of your words on others, it is often to late, and the damage can't be undone and the words can not be unsaid.. If have seen many things break in my life because of this. But the big difference between the autist and the psychopath is that the (high functioning / intelligent) autist does notice and feels really bad when such things happen (at least I do), while the psychopath simply doesn't give a *.
The televison series "Hannibal" dramatizes the differences and similarities between the autistic FBI profiler Will Graham and the psychopathic Hannibal Lecter.
The real actor who plays Hannibal is Autistic
What if you have an autistic person who can lie to you about emotion and other symptoms. Serious question though. Manipulation is a learned tactic. ❤ I'm autistic and I'm very interested In psychology. I wonder If an autistic person, with enough childhood trauma Could learn sociopathy into adult life as a defence mechanism ?
What about long island mass murderer who had alot of autistic traits, like really bad social skills? And his son was diagnosed as autistic? Could there be genetic similarities that same genes could cause both?
They often get misdiagnosed in children...
I see misdiagnosis with my patients daily, sadly.
So it's a dichotomy then. Is there a correlation between ADHD/AuDHD and Narcissism/Narcissistic traits?
Who said that it was a dichotomy, they were just explaining the difference between the two so that people don't think that Autistic people like me are Psychopaths with no empathy.
We just don't express our empathy in the same way as Neurotypical people. We express it in an Autistic way. We would never hug an Autistic when they were sad unless they asked us too because we wouldn't want to make them feel uncomfortable as well as sad. Autistic people actually find the way that Neurotypical people show their support to be condescending and not helpful. Between us we will show our support by letting them know that we DO understand what they are going through by telling them about a time when we went through something similar. But if we do that with Neurotypical people, then they will think that we are "making everything about us" when they were looking for someone to validate their feelings.
We all know that when people have cultural misunderstandings you can end up being rude and offensive to people when you have said or done something that is perfectly acceptable in your culture? But what happens when you try to explain things? They already think that you're an asshole and that you are just trying to get away with being an asshole by feigning ignorance.
No there is not. In a narcissistic family system the child with ADHD/AuDHD is often the scapegoat and rather than NPD has c-ptsd from being abused by the narc parent.
Neurodiversity doesn't make someone more prone to narcissistic traits. What is true though is that nd are much more bullied and abused than the general population, which can lead to all kinds of personality disorders and mental illnesses. The most common psychological problems nd have are depression, anxiety, ptsd and ocd.
As mentioned already nd communication works differently. I'm HSP/SPD and have all the sensory stuff, but not to the degree of having autism. Most nd have lots of emotional empathy and problems with cognitively reading people. When we talk we often relate to a persons story/ experience emotionally. So we connect and relate emotionally by telling each other our experiences. A lot of nt people just want sympathy though ( I'm so sorry this happened to you.) and validation not empathy, especially not emotional empathy. They feel it takes away from them.
So in nd people the "selfish" communication style comes from using emotional empathy over cognitive empathy.
Narcissistic people just want to talk about themselfs. They won't actually relate to you at all. They lack emotional empathy and are good at cognitive empathy.
As the mother of a child with autism, I can tell you that you this correlation is absurd. They are nothing alike.
As someone with autism I can tell you that this correlation isn't absurd. ASD and ASPD have overlaps so it's completely possible for someone with autism to also have ASPD as well as someone with ASPD being incorrectly diagnosed with autism and vice versa. Now ur son might be the sweetest and most honest boy in the whole world, who likes following rules, who never does anything out of impulse, who never gets irritated, who is responsible, and who shows a lot of sympathy, but most people with autism aren't like that. Your son might be a saint but he's not a saint because of his autism, he's a saint despite his autism
@@machoke666 my son was thrown out of 2 schools early in life for meltdowns, uncontrollable behaviors. Yet he has a conscience, does not scheme or manipulate, all the things (psychopathy checklist, Dr. Robert Hare) that come with psychopathy. His psychiatrist, and psychologist would never agree with such a thing. Also, what are your credentials?
There's 7 diagnostic criteria for ASPD, you have to meet 3 of them in order to be diagnosed, manipulation is just one criteria ergo u don't have to be manipulative to be diagnosed with ASPD. U have preconceived notions about people with ASPD. In terms of credentials, I have none, but don't shoot the messenger (that's a logical fallacy), just read the DSM-5, it's possible to have both diagnoses
@@Alliecat670 many surgeons are people with psychopathy, they wouldn't be what they are if they are not responsible, or if they are manipulators, or if they are uncontrollable snowflakes.
@@Alliecat670I'm 41 and was diagnosed with autism at age 14. And in my experience I definitely have shallow affect. Mostly I don't feel many emotions and when I do they are only felt in a shallow type of way. So that could be similar. But all the other things are different. There is no grandiosity, there isn't any conscious manipulation even though an autistic person may try and run the show. And remorse still exists if the person believes something to be wrong. There is no pathological lying, more often autistic people are honest people. So apart from shallow affect, almost everything else is different. But the shallow affect seems like a shared feature of both
Can't someone with autism also be a psychopath because autism is a developmental disorder whereas psychopathy is an umbrella term for personality disorders. (As I understand it, I am not a psychologist so please correct me if I am wrong).
Probably would be possible but, it's also possible to confuse symptoms that look similar on the surface. Psychopaths are usually described as skilled manipulators and charmers, which requires finely tuned reading of people in order to emulate charm that will work on them. Autistics usually read people very poorly. So much so that they can grow up unable to respond appropriately to others in social situations. In this sense it's hard to imagine these two coexisting apart from in cases of misdiagnosis of which there are probably many cases
@@cultfiction3865 Thank you very much for your explanation, much appreciated.
188 likes💙🖤💜💚💛
Can't someone be both?
Yes it appears that way.
Of course, there's no limit to the number of things that you can have and be diagnosed with. It just means that you have had a hard life and you are going to keep having a hard life because you have so much to recover from. You will probably have difficulty getting the help that you need because if you're still in contact with what would have been abusive and or neglectful parent/s, then they are probably not going to help you out. You are probably unable to get a job because you are to get a job in your condition, so you are probably not going to be able to afford the help that you need. Governments need to wake up and realise that it would be a better investment for them to pay for people to get help with their mental health issues so that they are more likely to be able to work, and less likely to drink and do drugs, and do things that will send to prison. Plus, they will be able to be better parents for their children and not keep repeating the cycle of generational trauma.
@@LaraKimThere is a limit because some disorders fall off as the stages of its type progress. Think schizophreniform disorder to schizophrenia, for instance.
I doubt it. I mean, if you conflate diagnosis with reality, sure, but then you mistake map for territory. It is unlikely that any cluster b personality disorders are sustainable strategies (and they are exactly that, defensive strategies) for an autistic person. It's like asking if someone in a wheel chair can be a mugger. I mean, technically, sure, but not likely
no, because people with autism are basically slaves of their own emotions, while people with psychopathy have lack of major emotions.
Autism is not a disorder. Sexual orientation used to be in the dsm too. It's a hyperconnected brain. That's it. It can absolutely be a good thing
Your comment has only had one like for a reason. Autism is a disorder. Here in UK it recently surfaced that 98% of people on the spectrum are long term unemployed. And you say this is the result of a hyper connected brain? If that's true why are all these hyper connected brains unable to succeed in holding down careers?