Which Voron should you build?
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2022
- In this video I cover the Voron 2.4, Trident, and briefly the V0 along with similarities, differences, and considerations. Voron is an open source printer, born out of RepRap. IMHO, it is one of the best quality printer you can build that has a large community behind it. Watch the video to learn which one would work best for you!
Voron Design - Link to all Build Docs & Info:
www.vorondesign.com/
My Voron 2.4 kit was from West3D.
West3d Voron Kits (including LDO):
west3d.com/GREGSMAKERCORNER
All Trident parts were provided by Boxxy Prints. Kit was provided by LDO.
Boxxy Prints (Recommended for parts, tell him I sent you!)
boxxyprints.com/?v=0a10a0b3e53b
Considering a Voron Trident?
Check out my LDO Trident Kit Review here:
• LDO Voron Trident Kit ...
See below if you'd like to skip around the video.
00:31My Voron 2.4 R2 Build
00:56 My Trident Build
01:40 Stealthburner Toolhead
01:56 Trident Touch Screen
02:00 Voron 2.4 Voron display
02:21 Voron 2.4 Flying Gantry
02:37 Trident Fixed Gantry
02:54 Voron 2.4 and Trident Bed Comparison
03:11 - Voron 2.4 and Trident Gantry Similarities
03:31 - Voron 2.4 and Trident Cable Chain Differences
03:44 - Voron 2.4 and Trident Z Motor Mounting Differences
03:59 - Trident Lead Screws
04:10 - Auto Leveling
04:20 - Voron 2.4 Quad Gantry Leveling
04:34 - Z Endstop for Z offset (Both Machines)
04:52 - Trident Z Tilt Leveling
05:15 - Auto Leveling Process & Differences
05:45 - Enclosure Panels (Same on Both Machines)
06:21 - Bottom Cooling (Same on Both Machines)
07:00 - Print Quality (Same on Both Machines, but some considerations)
08:08 - LGX Lite Extruder good for TPU (Mods for both machines)
09:16 - Preheating
09:59 - Print Speed Comparison
10:37 - Toolhead Considerations
11:17 - Build Considerations
12:44 - Popularity / Mainstream Support
13:05 - Serial Numbers
13:18 - Pricing Differences
13:32 - Kits
14:19 - Voron 0.1
15:58 - Printing on each machine
16:22 - Conclusion
Learn more about the Titanium Backers "theory" here:
github.com/tanaes/whopping_Vo...
Here is a video on how to install them:
• Voron 2 4 Gantry Insta... - Věda a technologie
The bed-dropper design also makes it easier to add supplemental cooling ducts for those going for Ludicrous Speed prints.
We have hit Plaid!
Not if size of print is considered. I don't see any reason why we can't have speed and size.
The extrusions don’t bend due to heat, they expand more than the steel of the rails. You’re actually putting the material under a thermal stress constraining it with the titanium. The titanium is meant to expand as much as the steel based on a cross sectional area.
It helps.
How much is unknown, I saw the FEA setup that voron picked up and it takes an issue that may exist a bit and shows it being a huge problem.
Great explanation! I was trying to explain it in simple terms, but I probably did a poor job. I’ll have to add a link to the page that explains the theory behind it.
Thanks for the video, I finished my Voron 0.1 last month and have been looking for my next project. I'm not ready to invest in another full printer yet so I'm going to do an Enderwire conversion for now, but I'm sure at some point in 2023 I'll build another printer. I had been trying to compare and contrast the 2.4 and Trident but it's been hard to find insight from someone who has both. It's really helpful hearing from someone who has experience with both and can demonstrate the features/quirks of each one. After building the 0.1, I think I'm ready for as simple as possible and will go with the Trident.
Good video, I my self went with the trident. Just a note, you can self source for cheaper than a kit if you take the time to find good prices. I self sourced my trident for like 850$ (including stuff I already had) with quality stuff like ldo rails and frame.
Very nice! I would like to know how you did that- assuming Ali Express? I've never found a practical way to get the prices lower than the prints. If you already have stuff that makes sense though.
@@GregsMakerCorner Nah no aliexpress, although I could have gotten it cheaper if I did. China is in lockdown so idk how long I would have to wait for my parts. Many shops llike west3d have partial kits and such. They also give free shipping if you spend enough so that wasn't really a issue. The only corners I really cut were a DC bed to make wiring simpler and yeah I did have some stuff at home already.
@@Unscientifically Ah that's great! Yeah, it makes sense that you could save some money with the sub kits and components and also have a bit more flexibility on getting exactly what hardware you want.
Great job Greg! I do love my 2.4 a lot
Right on! And thanks :)
I started with V0.1 LDO kit and 4 months later built a V2.4 350 from LDO. In terms of complication I do agree that V0 requires you to follow the manual exactly step by step while V2.4 I can jump around the manual to a certain degree. V0.1 is amazing machine and I couldn’t believe that I printed all essential parts for V2.4 on V0.1 leaving only larger parts like skirts and screen housing for Prusa mini. I find the challenge of V2.4 not in the complication of flying gantry but installing the front doors to open and close properly without bumping into the door latches and also have the doors not sagging in the middle. Took me many tries of taping and peeling them off and re apply them.
The doors are really a pain! I used 3" wide masking tape to hold my door panels on my machine, from the sides and top, and then I installed the hinges with the VHB tape. I believe Steve Builds has a video showing a similar process. That method seems to be about the best way to guarantee the doors closing properly. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Personally I ended up printing those larger, nonessential (to function) items on the V2.4 itself! I had my Ender 5 with an all metal hot end and an rpi cam inside of a cardboard box to print the essential components, then I taped the body panels and doors in place to print the skirts, panel clips, and other such that my Ender wasn't quite up to the task of printing!
I hate the magnetic doors. On my second 2.4 I went to using the latching panel mod as door latches.... Seems to work pretty good.
I recently built a voron 0.1 from a Formbot kit. And your videos was a great help! The hardest part was to 3d print the parts which took a couple of weeks on my ender 3 s1. Apart from that it was pretty straight forward. One tip, ad more nuts for mods later on. Also use the V0 No Drop Nuts or V0 1515 T Nut mod depending on what kit you got.
Great suggestions! Yeah, the nut mod really helps. Thanks for watching and commenting, glad to hear you got yours going!
This is the path I'm planning to take as well. I have an Ender S1 Pro and eventually want to upgrade via the Voron 0.1 (or 0.2 now) to the 2.4 or Trident.
One question I have: How was the ABS print quality on the Ender S1 for you? Did you buy an enclosure and do you have any pictures of how the result looks like? I'm still deciding between printing myself or just using the PIF program for it
@@mark_walet I can't remember ever trying to print ABS on a Creality machine, but you definitely can try it. An enclosure would be a necessity for the larger parts, otherwise you will get warping. If this is your first Voron I would recommend PIF or buying parts directly from a vendor, I have parts from BoxxyPrints on mine and they are better quality than what I have printed myself, and have always had a great experience.
@@mark_waletI got very good results with no waping, using ABS+ from PrimaCreator and printed from an open closet with plastic covering the opening
I started my voron ownership off with a gen one v2.4 I did a lot of things different when it. Mainly it runs rrf, it was a pain to get working. But I got used to it and despite the complication it's proven a pretty reliable machine. I considered getting a v0 then a Trident, entertained a micron or salad fork as well. Ultimately I bought another v2.4, the kits have greatly improved it's been a breeze to get working. I am squarely a huge fan of the v2.4 over all other voron designs. it's complexity does not equate to unreliability, it's over engineered z axis actually is the most reliable thing about it.
You may benefit from examining the airflow from the fans under your machines to determine which components are requiring airflow and then ensuring directed airflow at them. Ducting can assist - just the same as is used in servers and other slim environments. The open sides etc mean that you may have very little static pressure and airflow over the items that need it.
Too often air is not controlled on amateur designs and thus excessive airflow is used to compensate.
For some reason I like the 2.4 design more.
Got a Prusa MK3s+ and MK4.
My next printer will def be a 350 Voron and I’ll sell the MK3 after printing all the parts.
Thank you for the video. I was looking at the Troodon 2.0 Pro 350MM which is a Voron 2.4 style printer. I've held back because of putting it together. I'm thinking the Trident might be my better choice but I'll have to do a full build where the Troodon 2.0 Pro 350MM is a partially pre-assembled system.
I'm going to start with the V0. I have patience, good eyes and small hands on my side. I'm sure it's not much harder than a V2.4.
Best of luck! I agree, it's really not all that much more difficult. Patience will go a long way on the V0. :)
just to make this clear: "stealthburner" is the Tool head, NOT the extruder. The Voron extruder that normally goes with the stealthburner is called "clockwork 2", but the previous iteration (clockwork 1) fits as well
Good point! I often use them interchangeably when making content but you are correct. I don’t know anyone building cw1 with a Stealthburner shroud but there may be someone who does it.
Good overview. To me there is no reason to recommend any voron except for the trident. It's the easiest to build and maintain and give you very practical build volumes and good quality prints.
2.4 means more belts to tune, gantry racking to deal with, and overal a just more complex build. And the benefit is nebulus. You should bascially only build a 2.4 if you love the idea of a flying gantry with quad gantry leveling. But there is no treal practical benefit for the added complexity.
The v0 is a pain to build and a pain to maintain and work on due to the 1515 extrusions as well as a bunch of, honestly, bone-headed design decisions. I don't recommend the stock v0 to anyone.I often joke that there is a mod to change everything on the v0, only because everything needs to be changed.
Yeah… I do tend to agree! I know some folks really like the cool factor of the flying gantry. But the trident is definitely a no brainer. Thanks for watching and commenting! Appreciate the insight.
I'd say most people who go with the 2.4 is more than just the cool factor. The Trident, no matter the bed size, is still limited to 250mm on the Z axis. With 2.4 you get cubed printing volume, and if you need more Z height, the 2.4 is a lot easier to scale up.
@@DavidRelich Thanks for watching and the comment! The Trident in my video is actually a 300mm z height. The limit there is really just based on the length of the lead screw., but it may be difficult to find the proper motors with integrated z screws at the height you want. But yeah, I agree it's easier to scale the Z up on the 2.4 with the belts and they should be good at least up to a 500mm height I would think. You really can't go wrong with either machine!
Thanks for the tips about the v0. Which v0 kit do you recommended to someone who’s very comfortable with assembly but wants to avoid constant maintenance? Thank you
@@br88dy If I were starting a new v0 build today, I would choose an LDO kit. They are working on a v0.2 kit but it's not out yet. Other kits may be worth exploring if you want a budget friendly option- I've heard the Formbot kits are OK. Many of the discord vendors also sell kits (KB3d, West3d, Fabreeko) that are worth looking at- those are US vendors, there are others as well depending on your location. Maintenance wise, any well built machine will probably be fine for a good 1000 hours before minor maintenance (eg. Belts, hot end heater, thermistor, fans) might need attention.
Great video, i myself got my self an voron 0.1 s1 from ldo ordered. Cant wait to build it and try speed benchy got a few light weight parts already and going to try to see if i can convert the nema 14 mounts to nema17 mounts to give a bit more power and two hot end to try one is a dragon hf paired with a nf crazy volcano block from mellow and the other one is a rapido uhf. And ofcourse some cooling upgrades/mods i am having a look at and designing myself for. My next new machine after the v0.1 would be a vzbot330 want fast printers so i want to skip the voron trident or 2.4, but i am converting my old ender3 v2 to a switch wire as i already have most of the spare part needed to build that
That’s awesome, sounds like a really fun project. There are so many great mods out there. I bet you are going to have some fun getting things going so fast. Best of luck on your build!
@@GregsMakerCorner Thank you :)
Very nice video! Thank you :)
Thanks for watching, appreciate the comment!
@@GregsMakerCorner i wasn't really looking for a video like this, clicked it anyway and it was so well made and structured that i watched it untill the end :) keep up the good work!
If one is considering the V0 the Salad Fork might be a choice to consider. It is a Trident variation on the V0 and at 150-160mm is just slightly larger than the 120mm V0. Note that the LDO Trident that I got recently came with StealthBurner parts but uses the Clockworks 1 motor and extruder instead of the Clockworks 2, however this is compatible with the StealthBurner.
Yes there are so many great options for mods! I think the salad fork is a great example. I thought about mentioning the cw1/cw2 differences in the kit but didn’t want to get too detailed, but it’s a good call out. At this point I’d probably only consider putting a cw2 on for Stealthburner and hope ldo updates the kit soon
yeah saldfork is great inturns of build volume, but i would say due to lack of good kit available it not as easy to get compare to a voron 0.1 and soon to be 0.2. But i do wonder with some redesigns of the parts it migh be possible to convert a 120mm bed to a 150mm. However 120mm bed still plenty enough for most prints and often prints that require bigger are way bigger than 150 or even 200
@@GregsMakerCorner pretty sure LDO current kits are all CW2 however the resellers are still shipping cw1 bec they still have left over stock of cw1.
@@8bits955Good to know, I hope they are including CW2 / nema 14 motors now in the kits.
My first voron was a v0 kit from ldo and i am currently finishing my 2.4R2 ldo kit and can confirm the 2.4 is easier to build.
my v0 has some issues i think i can remedy with replacing the host computer (CB1) with a genuin pi4. I have a pi4 in my 2.4 since i did not want to run into these issues on it
Thank you for this video
My pleasure!! Thanks for the comment, too!
Fantastic video, very well arranged! I like the stationary bed of the 2.4, and only now just learned about the Trident's existence which sort of makes it a Rat Rig or Hevort IMO. Question tho, could the triple Z be added to the flying gantry? With a stationary bed, I think a 200x200 could be inserted into a 350x350 with a magnetic insert over both which might allow for dual zone heating of the bed for small or large parts. I have decent CAD skills and am now planning to build me a CoreXY after many years with my trashy Tevo Tarantula, but I also built an MPCNC that I don't use, so have plenty of extra parts to repurpose.
Thanks for watching and commenting! I am not sure about a triple Z on the Voron 2.4 but that would definitely be a cool mod!! With a bit of cad work I think it could be done. Best of luck!!
very good video.
I would add that if you want to 3D for doing functional applications, the v0 is the one I would recommend.
Functional parts are almost always small (for example, all the parts to build any Voron can be prited on the v0).
Your design or prototype will make use of aluminium parts for the parts that require length (i.e. robot arm will not be printed, just the articulations).
From a pure engineering point of view the v0 / trident is the most pragmatic.
The only 2 reasons to go for a v2.4 is if you enjoy 3D printing to tinker with your printer or if you are into cosplay and you need very big PLA parts.
Great video again, you've listed well all the pros/cons I think (can't remember if you spoke about the fixed bed of the 2.4 that can warp (not sure if that has been resolved in the latest version of the v2).
Thanks, really appreciate the insight and feedback!!
FWIW - I did the v0.2 S1 LDO kit as my first and didn't find the small size added to the complexity or difficulty - particularly with the high quality LDO documentation. And the lower price of the v0.2 made it much easier to pull the trigger on the project as a whole. I may do a Trident next - or more likely the Salad Fork.
That’s awesome to hear! The ldo kits are really good and they do have those nice slide in nuts now that make the build much more forgiving. Best of luck on your next build!! I am sure you can handle any machine now that you’ve got a 02 under your belt.
@@GregsMakerCorner Well, it's not all the way under my belt quite yet :-) Just getting started on the firmware now. But yes those little slide in nut holders make a HUGE difference. I can't imagine trying to do the build w/o them.
My voron path was v0 -> v2.4 -> Trident.
If I could only build one I'd say it would be the 2.4 because I think the flying gantry is the number 1 standout feature from the Voron group.
Yes.. that is a really good point! The flying gantry of the 2.4 does set it apart from other Core XY machines on the market. I have to admit, I really like that feature.
@@GregsMakerCorner I went with a 2.4 because I loved the flying gantry and bed tramming. Also the stationary bed is by far the best solution for large format printing, especially on heavy or tall items at any reasonable speed. Not to mention the bed tramming system works especially well with a conveyor belt module to eject parts!
On the other hand, the trident is better for non-planar printing, and can double as a filament drier since it can stash a spool to the sides and back of the bed! (And since the gantry isn't trying to move through that space)
What are the advantages of that? It just looks like more complication but I don't know what the advantage is.
@@Graeme758 can you clarify your question? Advantages of what part?
@@adamrosenberg4367 What is the advantage of the flying gantry over the Trident 'fixed' gantry? With the Trident bed only moving in the z axis, and relatively slowly, I'm not seeing how it is an issue with large prints.
Great video, I am trying to decide which one to build. I was going to start out with the V0 and then use it to bootstrap parts for other printers. I also thought it would be good start since it was the least expensive of the kits. But hearing you same it is complex because of how small has me worried, this would be my first time building a 3d printer so I may look at the trident instead. Would you recommend any other builds that may be less complex? I was thinking maybe one of the prusa kits but I am unsure.
I recently finished my 0.1, if you are accurate in your measurements and do everything as described in the manual it's not that hard. Be prepared for a lot of disassembly in case you want to mod your printer (kirigami, nevermore, 0.2 conversion etc.).
@10:30 "..Because the flying gantry should allow you to print a bit faster"
I don't get that? The fixed one on the Trident is more ridget, so more stability, so potentionaly more speed?
I only see more plusses for the Trrident:
- Ridget gantry
- More suitable for tool changers
- Chamber heats up faster, because printing at the top of the chamber
(- Easier to build)
Maybe the 2.4 is a bit absolete at this point?
The best overview for one looking at voron options. Thanks a bunch.
Question: I need 300x300x600 for ASA. Looking at your belted 2.4 it seams to be my best bet. Do you agree?
Thank you! I really appreciate the feedback.
For ASA/ABS and something running 600mm for build volume, I think you would be able to accomplish that with either a 2.4 or Trident. You can use the "configurator" to get a BOM since your dimensions would be a bit different than the standard sizes. In terms of which one would be better, I would probably lean toward the 2.4 because I think having longer z belts would scale a little better vs. longer lead screws on the Trident.
My thoughts exactly. Thank you
Thank you. great Video. I built a v0, guess I started backwards as well. Looking for a bigger printer, for the Voron 2.4, any difference in build issue or quality between the different print sizes ? 300 vs 350 ?
The larger size Vorons will not be able to go quite as fast nor have quite the same max acceleration without issue. I have a 350 size and a 300, and they both are great printers. If you don’t think you’ll need the 350 I’d recommend going 300.
Due to all comments and your great video I'll go with the 2.4 but really do hesitate between the 300mm and the 350mm. Anyone could give me advice ? Thanks
350 is a huge machine and I love it on my 2.4… however you will be able to get better speeds and acceleration on a 300mm. I rarely use the full build plate, so a 300 is definitely more practical h less you plan to do full plate prints. Best of luck and thanks for watching and commenting!
Can you explain the toys for tots? Do you just print whatever you want and send it to them?
I signed up for the IC3D Toys for Tots campaign, and I learned about it from MRRF a few years ago (this is my second time doing it). They have about 15-20 "pre-approved" models that you print for them. Each person that signs up is called an "elf" and we had to turn our 3d printed models in to the hubs in early December. You have a chance to meet up with fellow makers printing also, which is cool. IC3D is based out of Columbus, OH but they have volunteer hubs all over the US. I am not sure if they are outside the US at this point.
You can learn more by going to the IC3D web page. It's a great opportunity and each year I am trying to ramp up the # of prints I can do. Depending on supplies you can also typically get at least one roll of filament from them. (I emptied about 6 rolls). Polymaker also donated to makers that were printing. Here is a link to the 2022 campaign, I believe over 70,000 total toys were printed! www.ic3dprinters.com/2022-toys/
@@GregsMakerCorner Definitely doing this next christmas! Ill have my voron 2.4 350mm cranking out some toys.
From what I see here the main difference is that the bed is fixed on the 2.4 but moves on the Trident. Did I miss any other major difference that would affect speed or quality?
You got it! That’s definitely the biggest difference. The main differences are related to the flying gantry and bed. 3 motors on trident instead of 4 on the belted Z for the 2.4. Even with that many of the parts on the machines are very similar.
2.4 = hype
How do you feel these builds are for people who are solid on mechanical and wiring but novice on programming. Was going to build up my ender 5 with parts sourced towards a future voron build
I think you'd be fine. A programming background isn't needed, but Klipper may be a bit of a learning curve. There are some good step by step instructions and stock printer.cfg files for the Trident, which make it pretty easy to get up and running quick especially if you go with an Octopus board.
@@GregsMakerCorner does it need a seperate pi or similar, ive heard both said
@@2fwelding842 Yes, a Raspberry Pi (3 or better, model B) is the best choice to run the Pi. They are a bit hard to find right now "brand new" but you should be able to get a Pi 3 for a decent price, which would be around $50-60. The pi is what gives commands to the printer control board (usually a BTT Octopus). Take a look at this guide for more info. I also have a channel on how to get it set up, see my BTT Octopus guide. docs.vorondesign.com/build/software/
thx
350 being the largest that you can get a kit for
Yes, it is the largest that comes in a kit as far as I know. You may be able to talk to some vendors (like West 3d or Fabreeko, if you are in the US) to see if they can help with a larger custom kit.
micron 180
The only mistake you made was that the stealthburner refers to just the cooling fans of the hotend not the extruder.
For anyone building either the trident or the 2.4: the Voron extruders are called clockwork. Clockwork2 only works with the stealthburner, clockwork1 works with both stealthburner and the original afterburner. They use different motors so check before you print the parts!
Yeah, you're right- CW2 is the extruder part where Stealthburner refers more to the cooling. I wasn't as careful as I should've been in the video on explaining that. Good call out! The point I was trying to make was about the nema 14 motor needed for the CW2 (vs. the nema 17 that is included in the LDO kit).
What about the legacy 😡
Truly a great machine… :)
😂