Small 3D Printers are POINTLESS! Or...
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- SMALL 3D printers are POINTLESS! Or so comments say. Is this true? Are tiny 3d printers a stupid waste of money? Or can you do more with a small 3d printer than you probably expect? Let's answer these questions & discuss small 3D printers with my Voron 0.1 & 0.2 as examples!
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*** Can'd Grenade: than.gs/m/313127
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*** Mason Jar Candy Machine: www.printables.com/model/4129...
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:38 - Why?
1:06 - Voron Design Team
2:06 - Chamber Volume
2:27 - Why I Built a V0
3:18 - What fits in the Build Volume?
7:00 - Pros of Small Machines
7:49 - Not for Everyone / Cons
9:04 - Outro
The opinions expressed in this video are my own, from my personal experience. This is not a paid product advertisement. Please feel free to let me know what you think of this tool, or suggest alternatives I should check out. Disclaimer: This is not a paid advertisement. This video is solely my opinions from the use of these products and based on the specifications of them. Some of the links provided are AMAZON AFFILIATE LINKS or others. Affiliate links give the MandicReally a small advertising fee for every purchase made via those links. This does not cost you anything more than if you purchased them normally. - Věda a technologie
I was able to make a 300mm long part with my V0.1 just fine, I designed in dovetail joints into the part and glued them together. It was the easiest way to get an ABS part that big without warping or a large build chamber.
The Baldness is just poor layer adhesion 🤣
lol, either that, or he is a printer and his PEI sheet on his build plate is permanently damaged
My V0 is rapidly becoming my favorite printer, and it's one of the few I keep in the house. Small enough to not take up a lot of space, fast enough to churn out prints. It's an excellent platform and a lot of fun to tweak and tune.
All the printers I build & play with, when folks ask "What is your favorite?" I pretty immediately think "My V0.1".
I got a 350mm voron 2. Reasoning was that sure I could get a smaller one, but I KNEW I was gonna want bigger parts. I don't do a lot of design work - just finding prints to do usually - so printing fast is not really a problem.
Thanks for the reference. Great summary. I’ve found 85% of my prints can fit on an Ender 2 Pro so your numbers for Voron 0.x seems about right.
Honestly 90% of what I 3d print is smaller than 180x180, and 2/3 is smaller than 120x120. Building a Positron right now as I feel 120mm is a *bit* small for my purposes(too small for 3x3 Gridfinity bins).
And honestly comparing a V0 and an Ender is like comparing a cheap pickup to an EV Sedan. Both have completely different use-cases, and are valid, but for different reasons.
Hey I'm in the middle of building a positron right now as well. Did you finish yours yet? If so, how did it go?
I used to be all about size but then, insight of smaller printers and this whole shift to faster printers, I've realized I really don't need a massive build volume and most prints do fit the 120x120 for me, I've been considering a v0 for a while and this video is helpful
Props for the quality editing and pacing. Your production is on par with the largest channels in this space. Also very good points on the efficacy of smaller build volumes, never thought of it that way. Great vid!
I'm building a V0.2 because I live in a tiny apartment and want to print ABS/ASA but don't have the space for a bigger enclosed printer.
Most of the parts I print are not huge, usually for electronic projects, so the size is fine for me, I'm extremely glad something like this exists otherwise I wouldn't have the option to print some things at all
This honestly explains to me why so many people have an X1C and an A1Mini - I've lusted to have an A1 or A1Mini just to have a lower cost spare to print something quick and small WHILE I'm running a multi-day print on my X1C
It's still mind blowing to me that you can print a 3-d printer from a 3-d printer. What a time to be alive
You touched on it slightly, but I think the biggest reason is that a Voron 0 is rarely the only printer someone will own, while the Ender 2 Pro (and other low-cost off the shelf printers) will often be someone's first and only printer.
If I only own one printer, I would want to make sure it is convenient for all my use cases, so even if only 5% of my prints wouldn't fit, that would be annoying.
Heat-Up time is also less of a concern on those printers, as they will likely only ever print PLA and PETG, and are also relatively slow. 10 minutes of heat up are annoying if your print only takes 30 Minutes, but if that Same print already takes 2 hours, those extra 10 minutes don't really matter.
For me, the perfect combination of printers would be something like a 2.4 350, both for big prints and mass production (and admittedly because it is cool), as fitting more stuff on one plate reduces printer downtime (heat up, cooldown, finding the time to pull the parts out of the printer), and a smaller printer (I'm currently leaning towards something like the Salad Fork, a Trident Scaled down to v0 sizes, but with a max size of 180x180) for rapid iteration.
I've been considering a v0.1 but it always seemed like something that could be to limited by size, even though in reality I can print 95% of the items I sell regularly on one no problem. The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger on building one is time. The p1p I picked up recently checked all the boxes I was looking for with a v0.1 for less $ and setup time, but I do worry about maintenance issues with it. I will definitely be building a v0.1 as soon as I finish up the Mercury One build on my Ender5+. As always, love the content!
My first printer was a Monoprice Select Mini. Loved that machine. It was super reliable and delivered pretty great quality
First video ive seen from you, subbed! love the humor and how fast you fire off great info
Thanks for this video, you make some really valid observations about small printers. I've been researching these for a while now and I'm seriously considering the Rook 2020 version. It checks most of the boxes on what I want to do as a first time builder.
another thing about mini printers is that it forces you to make easily printable models that you can glue or even weld together with a soldering iron. These models will either have to be sliced to be printed in multiple pieces or adjust the size to be smaller. This makes you have to print easy models that are unlikely to fail and if they do fail, less wasted time and filament. Furthermore, yiu get amazing features for a low price. The Monoprice Mini Delta is my go to mini printer, and I LOVE IT it is fast, high quality, easy to mod and maintain, ect. Simply put, the only models that can't be done on a mini printer are large print in place models, and let's be honest, print in place is more a gimmick than anything in most cases.
That color scheme on your own voron 0 build is so nice, its making me want to build one even tho ive only use a prusa mk3 thus far
Building a V02R1 starting this weekend. I have a SV06 and am happy with it, but want MORE! When I saw a review promoting the V0.2 I knew that the speed was just the thing I wanted it for. Most of my prints can fit within the volume and there is nothing wrong with running 4 prints consecutively rather than one with all the parts on one bed taking longer overall.
Had a crunchy motion sound on one of my linear rail machines, and found that by using a thicker grease in the bearing blocks helped a lot. Downside: partial disassembly will probably be necessary.
I'm hoping that is all I need. I never greased them as well as I should have initially. Hopefully they aren't damaged now as I have a few hundred hours on it. I'll be disassembling for a conversion soon so I'll address them then.
@@MandicReally If you need to replace the bearing balls, the best place I've found is McMaster Carr. Just search for Low-Carbon Steel Balls 5/32" Diameter. I used these to rebuild some sketchy rails I got years ago and they worked out great.
I tried myself by building a few Printer (HyperCube, V0.1, Trident, Annex K3). For everyday Printing i usually use the Trident. Everday meaning i have multiple Parts on a Buildplate. For really fast prints, i stick to the K3. The Buildvolume of 180 mm³ is the Sweetspot for me, its super fast and i just love to watch the crossed gantry in motion.
The V0 is catching dust at the Moment and needs some tuning anyway. I will rebuild it eventually as i have new and shiny Filament.
I have a couple of Vorons and my V0.2 is used all the time. It’s a fast little workhorse. Like you said, I can finish a print before my 2.4 is ready to start.
How long does it take for your 2.4 to heat up?
I started with an Ender 3, huge learning curve. Like 300 $ things in upgrades. Went on with a FLSun Super Racer, too about 300 $ in upgrades. I got one printer gifted which gave me the Creality CR6 SE. And on that one day in summer my wife cleared me to buy a Voron v0.1 off eBay. The machine was assembled and kinda tuned. The first prints run and I am so happy with it. It is fast in printing and heating and it just runs and does its work. Just the manual leveling is killing me every time.
Do I need a Voron v0? Surely not. My wife is aware of this and still does not throw it out of the window.
To have a v0 is a whole different thing.
Great video. I tend to print parts that would fit on that build plate and V02 would be great for cramped spaces like my cluttered workbench.
You made some great points, I agree, from someone that uses, sells and upgrades printers as a business, I have printers from 120mm2 to 500mm2, I think its best to own at least 2 printers, buy a great big cheap machine for those big PLA cosplay things, and a small compact quality machine for printing high quality mechanical parts, always use the right tool for the job, and I'll bet if your into mechanical parts, you will be using the small machine more often than the big one, smaller machines have better tolerance, heat up quicker, are much easier to repair, can print faster, will fit on your desk right next to your work station, the only CON is build size, and I think most people just see that and let it go to their head, saying all this, I think a perfect compromise should be 150mm3 volume, the Voron Zero should have been 150 from the start, but this is a metric thing, I also don't think 0.4 should be the standard Nozzle size, should really be 0.5mm :)
After this I’ve been heavily thinking I should build a 150 or 160mm variant of the V0. It may well happen soon. That really does feel like a sweet spot.
@@MandicReally Yes I agree, 120mm3 is good, but 150 would have been a better choice, there should be a 150mm3 V0 then they should have done a bigger version with 2020 extrusion called it the V1 and made it 200mm3 then step up to the vastly more complicated V2 or Trident.
Speed and accuracy of a cube frame that takes up less space for less money. I seldom use the entire build volume of my 200x200x250mm Prusa clone, and when I do I wish it was bigger. I have plans to extend it vertically, then I might just build a small, rigid H-bot for quick everyday prints.
I mostly print very small parts, custom grommets with TPU, filler pieces, knobs and whatever I need for restorations. I have a neptune 3 pro, my first machine. Happy with it. But I wouldn't mind a small very fast machine. A bed volume of 5x5x5 cm would cover most parts and they would not even have to be pretty.... :) It's all on on the inside of other things anyway.
I'm even looking at printers for kids. Crude, but cheap, so I could work on restorations and have multiple filler pieces printing as I go.
180mm is perfect to me. 120 tho….. just too small for most of my parts. But I do still want one lol
But constantly removing parts and starting a new print is a huge pain tbh
I've been using a second hand Monoprice Select Mini V2 for 6 months now. It was given to me for free so there's no way I'd complain. Sure, it isn't perfect and a 110mm/cu (usable) build volume is limiting BUT it still works and it does a really good job. Add to that I HAVE to think smaller and be very careful when I design things which has forced me to come up with some pretty creative ways of getting around problems. It's also enabled me to get much better at placement to maximize size. I've been able to print off 135 mm long items in this smaller volume. Considering 90% of what I print fits in this space I don't really need anything larger. I sure want it though. :)
I Had this machine for one month and then i bought my MK3. It was nice to get started, but it lacks so many Features, and the Manual leveling with a Tool are Not really nice.
At the Moment i would Like a bigger surface but Not a Lot more height, as I am printing lego Stones which arent that large. But only 84 fit on my MK3.
I do Not mind the small build Volume, but for Projects bigger ist better. If you have to Print a Lot of objects it helps Not to have to Clean Up the build space after every small print. Just fill IT Up and Go.
@@MaxMichel89 I'm actually on the verge of getting an SV05 but only because I want the build volume and it'll really only get used for those larger prints. At least that's what I keep telling myself. 😁
@@Enjoymentboy IT should be a better value, but Inpersonally Like the better working conditions and Open sourceness from Prusa. Also depends where you live.
About 80% of my stuff is small enough to fit. The small printer fits my living room, the big one is sitting in the basement, so perfect combo for me.
I've got space for one printer and I think my Ender 3 is about the perfect size to be useful without taking up too much space. Some of the projects I've printed recently that wouldn't work on a smaller bed include a very nice 5L trash can, a sponge holder/dryer for my kitchen sink (I actually had to scale this down to fit), a pencil case, and some toys with rip cords that I had to place diagonally to get it to fit on the Ender 3. I also want to get into gridfinity or multigrid which would be very limited on such a small bed.
That said I do really like the idea of a Voron 0.2 as a secondary printer that can be used to print ABS components fast for real applications and the majority of little toys/trinkets way faster than I'm used to.
My main motivation for a larger printer is either full build plates worth of smaller parts so I'm not constantly pulling prints off the bed, waiting for the bed to heat up/cool off and the various pre flight print_start processes. Or for the occasional large item like helmets or cosplay props in fewer pieces meaning less time joining the bits and post processing before painting.
I have a little ender that prints like a champ but it's slow and smaller than my 300^3 Trident which means I can't get as much off it in the same amount of time. I'm still looking to build a V0 someday but for me the size is more immediately useful.
I like your videos,
that's all :)
thanks for taking the time to create, edit and share
Really enjoying your videos! Size of printers is a funny thing - I find that no matter how big a print volume, it seems there's *something* I want to print that will require some work. ultimately, I want a printer that can reliably print what I want the vast majority of the time. My Prusa fits the bill but I've been super tempted by the 0.2 as a second printer, assuming I can find the space for one. The small form factor, enclosed printing space, and speed are all things I would enjoy having for rapid prototyping.
Maybe someday!
If you want an inexpensive, tiny core xy, look up Rolohaun's Rook printers. There's a fully printed one and the Rook 2020 that as the name suggests uses 2020 extrusions.
My second 3D printer, the first one I ever built from scratch, is a 500mm cubed machine..... I almost never use the full build volume, that being said there has been maybe 3 projects over the last couple of years that I absolutely couldn't have done without it.
A lot of what I do would fit, but not the masterspool or electronics boxes for my other projects, so I would have use for a larger bed for sure. Great points though, love the small design as well.
My first printer is a sunlu s8 pro with a massive build volume (31x31x40). I love having that capacity, especially the width (which is still limiting at times), but 100% most of the parts I print would fit into one of these tiny printers. And the main problem I run into with printing tiny parts on a giant printer is bed levelling. The larger the bed, the greater the difference there's going to be between even the most accurate tramming map and the actual bed; this has no greater impact than in the very middle of the bed, where small parts are usually printed.
I had a small printer as my first printer, the Monoprice Voxel (rebranded Adventurer 3). 150x150x150 was its build volume, nice, fully enclosed little printer...noisy as hell though. I generally used it as my "test" printer for a single design as well as my portable printer when traveling to shows (Train Swap Meets). I decided to sell it since what I had been printing was all too big for it, HO scale buildings were not going to fit in a 150mm area. Also mass producing multiple items also wasn't feasible either, could get 1 or 2 on it, but the bigger printers I had (Twin Neptune 2S) could do 10+ instead.
However the Voron 0's there are the same price as that Voxel was, but clearly faster. The only benefit I really see a Voxel 0 having is entirely in the speed department, if you can manage to get said print to fit in the small 120x120 plate. Portability might be a draw too, since its small and enclosed to begin with, it would travel well.
However the Voron 2.4, at least at the 350 version does seem to be quite beneficial even at its high price point. Because it brings both high speed AND large build volume together. Then there is the X-1, that with the AMS is cheaper then the 2.4, 100mm smaller in build volume but really can't beat that ability to print in Color. There is the Pallet 3 System that allows up to 8 colors on any printer to be used, but thats another extra, fairly spendy thing. No idea how well it would work in conjunction with a Voron printer.
I build my v0.1 for specifically faster prototyping next to my desk instead of the bigger printers I have in the basement cause I hated having to sit around for first layer checks (don't judge me lol) and when it was a small part it was nice to keep working on the cad while it was printing for fit checks. The ONE THING that annoys me about the build volume (beside my bed having a low spot which is likely my fault lol) is I often want to print things that are 130mm or so or just outside of the volume and then I have to do a cut and key or orient it weirdly or just scale it. There's way to work around it, but by and large it's enough for most of my gadgets, not to mention the building of the kit was worth it in and of itself :D
There are very few things that I print normally that won't fit on a V0 bed. Most of the ones that won't fit on the V0 will fit on a 160mm Salad Fork (a small V0 like variant of the Voron Trident). Portability and convenience are other factors. Perhaps the larger printer must be put in the garage or a less convent to access place. The small printer can sit closer to where you design and work. The small printer is also easy to transport and show off, take to the local club or group for a presentation. It's also less likely to shake out of alignment in use. Even dropping one on it's head didn't do much damage (Nero). The small printer is also available while the big printer is busy to try out that new idea you just had. :)
I got a creality ender 3 s1 and a voron 0.1. I use almost exclusively my voron 0.1, for drone parts and other small 3d prints. I used the creality for building the voron though
If you build a voron 0, remember to not use NEMA 14 motors! I switched to LDO NEMA 17 and it can accelerate at 30000mm/s^2, when using stealthchop and running lower than rated current.
Not sure how accurate "random poll on twitter" is for gathering data buuuuut these printers are cute. And that green and black colour scheme is 🔥
Oh it is VERY flawed science for certain... ha.
I am just getting into 3d printing and I would say a simple line.
The right tool for the right job.
When I just had my Mini, I printed 8km on it. Then I got some Troodon 2.0 machines for large parts, I still fired up the mini regularly. Now, I use V400's for smaller parts. Newer printers should get a small unit first, then a big one. Keep both.
I started out with an ender 3, the original, that i found on sale for 100 euros, after about a year of printing, i decided to get a V0.1 since almost all of my prints were half the size of my ender 3 bed, and the ender broke down almost completely, i managed to resurrect it by swapping out its mobo for a ramps 1.4 and an old laptop to run klipper, and strapped a v6 hotend to the ender 3 carriage with some wire to print a temporary mount for the hotend that didn't shake like crazy, once i did that, i started printing parts for the voron, and i still use these same parts today, just a week ago the extuder mechanism broke, and i managed to print a sherpa mini out of resin, and i screwed it on top of the mini stealthburner. right now i'm printing the parts to upgrade my v0.1 to a v0.2 with this frankenstein setup, and i wouldn't do it any other way!
Great video. Agree most of my stuff will fit on a smaller machine. I went down the path of salad fork 160mm to get past the 120mm volume. I do like Prusa’s bed heater plan. Only heat the plates that are needed for when you have that larger print once in a while.
160 or 180 is reallllly appealing to me, but the expense of all the motors for a Salad Fork just makes me default to building a bigger machine. I’d really like one I’m sure, just can’t justify it.
@@MandicReally agree it’s not cheap. I wanted to build it and did. It goes nicely with the trident I have. The printers for ants are really niche so they have the price that goes with it. Ender 2 pro was my best bang for the buck for smaller printers.
Youve kinda sold me on this. Not physically since i only have 1 printer and dont plan buying another. But youve sold me on the idea on its usefulness. The low energy consumption and print speeds is what made me go to that conclusion.
❤ small format printers. Haven’t built a Voron yet due to cost. But have built my own version of the Rook printer by Rolohaun 3D. Learnt a lot about how printers work. Now got a nice small printer that prints fast with a very short warm up time 😃
My first impression of the V0 was that it was a throwback to the old makerbot cupcake.
Right now I'm in the process of making a Hadley telescope. The parts for this fit on my Ender3 with a bit of space left over (but not much). The Hadley is a 4.25" (mirror size) scope. I'd like to scale this up to a 6.5" mirror (which I will try to grind myself). A scaled up design for this might fit on the ender3, though I might have the cut some of the parts in half on the cad model, print them, and glue them together. So the Voron 0 would be too small for this.
However, I have also 3D printed a chess set. THAT would fit on the Voron, and I could easily print several pieces at a time. (I didn't do that on the Ender, too much stringing between the parts (PETG). I could probably tune the extraction, flow rate, and filament temp to control this, I just haven't bothered yet.
My first(so far only) printer is a prusa mini, and while I think more than half of the stuff I've made could be printed on a voron 0, the thing I've made in highest quantity (a part similar to shelf brackets), would not fit in the smaller build volume.
I think Voron 0 is a good size for a third or fourth printer, after you can already print any single thing you need, but need more speed or capacity.
I got fascinated with Voron around Christmas, and built a V0.1/2 this spring because I wanted all of the project part without as much expense. At the time I fully intended to give it a few months and then start looking into a Trident, but ... I'll be honest, now I'm fascinated with these little printers, so I might redirect to one of the printers for ants in the 180mm range (such as a Micron or scaled Tiny-T).
VZbot vz150 time?
@@ballbous :-). I think there may be advantages to sticking within a specific ecosystem for the first couple builds! Also, while I'll have to think on it, my current inclination is towards something more in the 180mm area, because it's a nice split between 120mm and 250mm.
Holy crap what a perfectly balanced and informative video, now I want to finish mine lol
I kind of want to build one of these little guys. I already have 2 larger format printers and want to get into designing my own parts. Having a fast little machine would be handy to turn out prototypes quicker.
I'd love to see a video on how you get the crunchy sound out of your V0.1. Having the same issue with mine and stopped using it because that and the lack of interest looking into these kind of issues
I've just bought a Neptune 4 Max and honestly, the bed size really can't overshadow the print quality with default design (I will upgrade it with linear rails in the near future). That's why I want to try out building my own 3d printer, starting with the Voron 0. I was a bit concerned about the bed size, but your video made me realize what I need, not want. Voron 0 it is.
So I just ordered the Siboor 0.2 kit (with metal parts vs colored extrusions). Specifically most of what I print are smaller things, for drones and functional parts. Figured it would be faster and more reliable than my S1 Pro. I plan on getting a multi head next year.. just not sure which one yet. Waiting on the ProForge 4 release/reviews to see how well it does. It looks a lot like a Voron e.g. accessible parts you can source and fix if need be, but 4 heads, 800mm/s print speeds (we'll see how fast it really is), etc.
Its also great that the print bed is small that i rarely have to level the bed before a print. It makes a significant difference in print time when the printing time is less than an hour.
Awesome! You printed the Click-n-Grow cup I put on Printables! :)
Great video as always!
I agree that V0 will print about 50-70% of parts. But if I want only one printer, then I need something bigger to satisfy my needs. I don't want to split parts and glue them later together. I'm mostly 3d printing automotive and motorcycle tuning parts. Basically anything: from little air ducts, to manifolds, adapters, cupholders, covers, buttons, mounts, brackets, holders and anything else for car or motorcycle. Actually I'm thinking about building Voron 0 but exactly 1.5 times bigger.
Also depends on where you're coming from. If you're coming from the cosplay corner, then you'll need a bigger build volume. 300 x 300 x 400 is a must! Having too many cuts in an armor piece results in misalignments and therefore you have to fill in the gaps which requires more post processing.
also more "cuts" opens up more chances for a warp to occur on a piece, resulting in many re-prints. The more of a large print you can do at once, the better.
This is an interesting topic. I've been thinking about this the last few weeks about what to build next. I have an e3, a 300 and a 500 sized machine. I drew squares on a sheet of paper in all the popular sizes from 120-180 and was kinda surprised how small they all seemed. 180mm k3 or 165mm The 100, 180mm rook or similar, v0. Haven't been able to decide yet.
since making my Tiny-m a 150x150x150 printer it's has very quickly taken over as the one that is always on and ready to print. I have just finished the enclosure and getting ready for asa - abs prints and it's the only actually enclosed printer I have. It's just perfect for quick test prints like you said because it heats up in no time and can print very fast. This is my 10th printer and the 3rd I have self sourced and made and I never want to go back to a cheap box printer again.
Tiny-M REALLY is interesting to me, but hasn't been updated in a bit that I've seen. I'd probably want 0.2 aesthetics, which would be a big project on my part that I don't have time for...
@@MandicReally the rev 5 is currently in development so perhaps take a look at then when it's ready.
I feel constrained with an ender 3 build plate so the V0 is definitely too small for me. Thinking of building a 2.4 or Trident instead. The most recent stuff I printed were socket organizers for my garage. They would not fit on a V0. Same with the fan I designed prior.
Great video! people are too quick to dismiss the V0 as a viable option because of it's size, when that's actually it's strength.
also... 43?
I also run a v0.1/2 (its a frankenstein v0.1) I also run an open source project where none of the parts fit in the V0 so i mostly use my trident for that, but that doesn't mean the V0 doesnt get used i still use it for all my personal and or fun bits when my big printer is in use.
I got a cR10 V3 with „little“ Mods. About 90% of my parts fits into the V0 which was the reason why I decided to get one. Now I barely use my CR10 anymore 😅
Totally agree. My V0.1 is my favourite prinnter for 80% of the (small) parts.
What are ypu ising for glueing PLA?
I have a Silhouette Alta+. Teensy build volume. I’ve considered selling it, to upgrade to a Bambu X1C and Elegoo Neptune 3 Max. I also have an FLSun Speed Racer in storage (long story).
Still, I’ve come up with a number of ideas for things I can print on the Silhouette. After all, if I ever have a 3D print garden, each print can be busy with something, thus adding speed.
I do, however, really consider the Silhouette to be on the level of a kitchen appliance, for making cookie cutters though.😂
I think that would say more casual 3d printing folks who have only 1 printer and only print PLA/PETG. Dealing with bed/chamber heating times is so annoying. That is the reason my mostly used printers are small ones. However, if I had to choose only one printer, it would be one with a ~200x200mm bed. So I understand their point of view, but I don't think they understand ours. Just because they never experienced those "issues".
Why. Ive been focused on a big stupid printer because i hate to merge pieces together. But you made me realize how often i spend too long trying to load up the build plate to make more things at one shot instead of printing the 1 small print i need.
I live in the UK, which means my house is tiny, so I struggle to find space for my Ender 3. I mostly print DnD terrain with it so the build volume and physical size of a V0 would be perfect. I don’t really need to be able to print ABS though and would love someone to do a kit that’s cheaper and leaves out all the enclosure, top hat and such
This is what I was thinking. If people live in cities, they probably don't have space for large machines.
I could see this being a great addition when you already have a larger printer. For me personally i often find my 220x220 printbed to be about 10mm to small waaay to often, even if a lot of what i print could go on one of these, so for a "my only printer" they might be a bit limiting.
Yep, when it's you only printer then 250x250 is pretty much the perfect size. If you already have a bigger one, then a small printer is a very cool thing to have.
You could cover building larger prints in sections and gluing, welding, bolting, etc. the sections together.
I suspect that, for many larger prints, printing the separate sections with a V0 would take less time in total than printing an unseparated piece in a larger printer.
Also, section level errors would reprint much faster than reprinting a large piece on a large printer.
I have an old Flashforge Finder (140mm^3) and recently also built a Voron Trident (250^3) and I find, build-volume-wise, that the Finder prints almost everything I want to print. I went with the 250 spec Voron because I really didn't *need* any more than about 180mm^3, and there's not a spec Voron for that.
I'm starting to really think the Voron team should consider something between the 0.2 and 2.4/Trident 250mm. Something like a 180mm machine would probably become my most used rather quickly...
@@MandicReally Members of the Voron Team have developed smaller printers based on the stock printers. There's the Micron+ that's 180mm^3 (think V2), and the Salad Fork which comes in at 160mm^3 (think Trident). I saw mention of a Halfwire (think Prusa Mini mashed up with Switchwire) but I'm not sure if it was a one-off or if it is in development.
I was originally thinking about a Salad Fork for my next printer, but I have a 250 V1.8 frame kicking around that is yearning to be turned into something... So that may end up turning into a Legacy of some variety.
Dead right with the "what size volume do you NEED"... I know a LOT of people who don't print ANYTHING that would exceed a 0.2's build volume. Most people aren't out there printing full scale Iron Man suits or full scale weapon replicas.
I make a ton of gears and small builds in general so I don't need a bigger printer, enough said for me, and a small printer is always more reliable and live longer than large ones. That's exactly why Voron V2.4 isn't trying to reach 400mm cubic.
My largest print volume is 250^3 on my Biqu BX. I currently have 4 "mini" printers - a Prusa Mini, my Voron 0.1, and two Kingroon KP3Ss (a V1 and a Pro V2) and they print 90% of what I need and my Ender 3s and BX take care of the remaning 10%. But if a 350mm Voron 2.4 kit showed up at my doorstep, I certainly wouldn't turn it down :)
As someone who mainly uses FDM for wargaming terrain, and bases, etc. Build volume is everything but for someone prototyping small parts using a finicky filament, and needing to print more than 3 pieces a week I can definitely see the advantages of a small and fast FDM printer.
I've got a Prusa Mini because I don't have a lot of space in my home. While a bit large at 18cm cubed, I don't think I ever printed a part larger than 12cm cubed.
A small Voron is certainly on my list considering the speeds possible with that thing.,
My v0.1 has 842 hours, 1020 jobs, and 6km of filament used in about 8 months at speeds around a bamboo p1p ... My 2.4 built at the same time (and printed by the v0.1) has half as much time on it. If I have something to print and it fits, it typically goes to the v0
My Prusa Mini has been able to handle 95% of my prints.
I'd really like to see a 'Voron 1' that prints roughly a 180mm plate. The 2.4 is just too big for my limited space.
PrintersForAnts do some scaled down Vorons, there is the Salad Fork, which is a scaled down Voron Trident that can do either 120 or 160mm plates, there is also the Tri-Zero with the Plus 50 mod which takes a 2.4 belted design down to 170mm!
The voron 1 already exists. The trident. It's technically the 1.9
Half the crap I print fits on my 0.2 and gets printed 4 times faster. Worth it!
It all depends on what is your main aim in 3d Printing... I print small part that fit on my 100x100mm. I got 2 of those and 1 350x250m and i use it very rearly
I got a Ender 5+ modded mercury zero g, a ender 5+ with hero me gen7, a trodoon v2.0 , and a CR6 SE, and yes, the CR6 SE is the one that sees the most use -why you wonder? Because of the same as he talks about here, speed to heat up, smaller footprint, but I still probably would get away with a 0.2 or a Ratrig Minion, I am still into building a 0.2 cause its small, already done for printing abs and asa and so on, but have not thought about to load up a profile and check of how much of my smaller prints fit there, I will take your advice on that, thanks for the tip!
My Prusa Mini+ is my work horse, all other printers have been retired. Ender 3, Ender 5 Pro, and Tevo Tornado.
a tiny, like micro printer, has been on my todo list for a while to have next to my PC for sub 5 minute prints like spacers which I make quiet often. Getting up and walking to my other printers takes longer than the print itself aha
Those little guys are absolute throughput machines. Our parts are relatively small and the 120 bed is great … and we can fit multiple of these where a bigger printer would go.
I have a 350x350x250 Trident behind me and it takes a LONG time to heat up the chamber for ABS, but I wanted it because I want to print 60% keyboards.
Great points. If it could print to a height of 250mm it would probably allow me to print even more on this footprint.
A rather simple addon can negate the enclosure heating time difference. One can get a used hair dryer for a few dollars, or even free. Slight case modification, a relay, and a temperature sensor/switch (but an Arduino is a better way) - and you've got yourselves a printing enclosure temperature booster. Then, your enclosure could be ready in a minute or two.
Older underpowered-for-today hair dryers are a better option, because it is easier to control the potential temperature spikes; food dehydrator is also an option (due to a weaker heating element, and thus "safer"). And needless to say, have a triple you-built-it safeties (ideally, on top of the dryer built-in ones), ideally only have it on to heat the inside air while you're physically present (first few layers), and only to a reasonable air temperatures (consider hair dryer's and your printer's components and build materials).
If you cannot fathom at least 10 ways in which you can mess up this project/addon and fail - (and their succesful fixes) - better ye not undertake this project.
I have an Artillery Genius, and most of my prints would fit on a smaller machine. Knowing this, if I buy a new machine I clearly prefer a small one, which will offer me better quality for the same price than a larger printer.
8:19 I biulded my 0 on PLA when the printer was ready I bought ABS and printed its parts, IT worked well so well I was thinking keeping it that way but I wanted to print higher temp than ABS
MY Voron purpese is silent loong printing , and in that its a win for me.
v0 and my bambu are my main workhorses right now. I can get much better surface quality from my v0. Bambu prints reliably and the parts function, but cannot be tuned as well as the voron because of the input shaper. VFAS etc.
I see small (fast) printers like I see big printers… amazing to augment a primary printer, but not great as your first one since they fill a bit of a niche. A Voron 0 would make a great second printer, just as the Neptune 3 Max does (just different ends of the spectrum)… but I’ll always recommend a solid mid-volume printer as a first (workhorse) printer.
Yea, I wanted to make that point but didn't want to run the video longer. It isn't what I'd recommend for your ONLY printer, but an excellent 2nd printer.
Excellent video!
I think these small printers are great as a second printer. I'm glad I have a 300mm^3 printer as I frequently need or take advantage of that size. But when I get around to building a second, it will be something like a V0 or Rook.
For me it's the other way around. Nearly everything I print will fit in the volume of a V0 and my Prusa MK2/S is feeling dated. I plan on building a V0 to have a fast and up to date primary machine and I'll keep the bigger, but louder and less featured Prusa around for the occasion I need the print volume.
out of all my printer my 0.1 has been my must used printer, as i print with asa and abs the most it just make sense as like 90% of the time the part will fit on my v0.1 and i got my v0.1 going at 500mm/s at 60k accel print speed so everything come off very fast much faster than my other vorons and enders. not to mention the bed heat up time being a smaller bed it easier to heat up with a 200w bed heater with the help of an active chamber heater too. only takes like 10min to full heated chamber and bed ready for asa and chamber prints compare my 350mm vorons takes like 1 hour just get to the temp before i can start printing, and usualy by the timei can start my print on my bigger pritners i will alreayd have the part from v0.1. WIth that being said i am investing into a 330 vzbot to get the speed up on that and addin couple chamber heater too to speed up the time
I just bought (and in the process of rebuilding) two Kingroon KP3S printers for $100. The first one is working and cost me around $50 in new parts. I am SUPER impressed with the Kingroon and would recommend one to anybody unsure about getting into 3D printing, as well as anyone fully immersed into 3D printing. It's a great little device that pumps out amazing prints. It doesn't have ABL, however with a glass plate, you don't necessarily need it. After my initial levelling, the printer has been running like a champ and I am looking forward to getting the second one going as well.
Do I NEED a large build-plate printer. Absolutely not. The percentage of things I can print on a small printer are likely similar to the results here. I WANT a large build-plate printer though. :D
I bought a KP3S a while back and it was... bad. Like unusably bad. I probably got a lemon but they sent me a KP5L that was also unusable as delivered, so I wrote them off sadly. I know a lot of folks have great luck with them but I just couldn't justify my time on them anymore.