An Honest Take On Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's Ending ft
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- I sat down with Suzi aka 'The Sphere Hunter' to discuss our reception to Final Fantasy XVI's combat, Stellar Blade and our unfiltered thoughts on the story of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
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(0:00) Intro & The Combat of Final Fantasy XVI
(20:07) Stellar Blade Blew Our Minds
(25:29) Our Raw thoughts on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
(33:22) The Best characters in FF7 Rebirth
(33:53) Surprise Guest Ben Starr
(36:14) Rebirth's Top Tier Characters
(43:55) Vincent was Great But Cid...
(49:02) Our Thoughts on Rebirth's Ending
(58:11) NSP Hot Take - pls do not ratio
(1:00:00) Zack Fair and Expectations of Part 3
(1:11:37) Final Fantasy XVII (FF17)
#finalfantasyviirebirth #finalfantasyvii #ff7 - Hry
One of the best and easiest people to talk to ever! Can't wait to chat again like this in 4 years for PART 3. 😁
LOL! you're the best Suzi!!!
metrovbolluce They're already making it so it's not even a concern lmao
@metrovbolluce It will make its money back easily don’t worry. PC release and merch and soundtracks and all that
metrovbolluce not really sorry to break your bubble here kiddo but nobody has the full picture of the sales, and yet there are very strong evidence the game is selling very well worldwide, the charts says a lot, far from being a flop at the very least and its also coming to PC very soon so...
FFX? I have been watching Suzy for years, and i thought it was about Dragon Ball 🤦🏼♂️ 😂
It's pretty cool how Vincent is only in the game for a short amount of time but still ends up helping the party 3 different times. He helps to track the Turks on the way to the temple, helps the party escape the temple, then helps open the way for Cloud to save Aerith. They didn't make him into just a weird tag-along character who does nothing.
And he plays Queens blood with you. Can’t forget that 😌🤣
He helps with the Shadow Blood Queen, too.
So president Shrina can smoke a cigar but Cid doesnt smoke? We better get smoking Cid in part 3.
I think people misinterpret Cid’s portrayal in Rebirth. We meet him in a completely different way here. In OG he’s on his own turf, in his own home when we stumble on to him, AFTER the Space Program was cut. Here however we meet him as a pilot for hire, dealing with customers with a certain profesionality, before any of his backstory happens. Aside from the moments where he isn’t with the party, there really isn’t any good reason why he should smoke. I expect his character to be closer to OG when we see him in the Rocket Tpwn storyline. Don’t know if his abusive nature will be depicted, but I think he will smoke.
Or it’s a villain/hero thing where villains smoke and heroes don’t. FF7 is probably the game that most caters to a Western audience due the OG’s success and the way smoking is seen these days and used in movies to illustrate a character, it’s possible he won’t. I personally couldn’t care less whether he does or not, but given the popularity of One Piece for instance where Sanji, one of the main cast, is a chainsmoker and no one makes a big deal out of it, I’m pretty confident they’ll let Cid smoke.
@@jarosbodytko6462 Same thoughts.
@@jarosbodytko6462 agree 100%. Its not that im promoting him as a smoker but it is in fact part of his character and would make sense he picks them up after they cancel the space program.
@@blocksheep4899 What if he _tries_ to pick up smoking but get blocked at every turn? First we get to Rocket Town, and there he buys himself a package but, due to all the stuff going on, doesn't get an opportunity to get a smoke in before the Bronco gets shot down and his cigs get all soggy in the sea. Then the gang reach the northern continent and he tries to buy a new pack in Icicle Inn, only for them to not have been able to get a shipment for several months. Then they get to Wutai, but the only thing they've got there is kiseru pipe tobacco. And so on and so forth.
@@GrahamChapmanlol
While Zack is falling back through the void he tells Cloud “SAVE her”, if Aerith is truly dead and Cloud is just ‘hallucinating’ why would the writers plant that line there? I don’t believe Aerith is completely dead and she survived in another timeline. It doesn’t make sense to lay out all the groundwork for multiverses only to throw it away at the end and say he’s just hallucinating. I think Cloud isn’t sad like everyone else because he knows she’s not truly gone and he experienced that other timeline.
….also Cait Sith made a prediction about “throw caution to the wind, trust in others and a last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you.” He can only be talking about one thing. Just a thought.
I agree. Plus Aerith said this is about saving the world, and Cloud, this is why he didn't break down, she saved him from that grief.
But Zack doesn't know she's already dead he only got that information from Marlene that Sephiroth would kill her he didn't know when which is kinda heartbreaking when you think about it
@@thedarkderp2520 there is still at least 2 alive Aeriths, Zack only knows about the one in a coma in his world and that's who he is talking about. But there's also the one that Cloud saved at the forgotten temple. I have no clue how this is all going to play out, but looking forward to seeing Sleepezi's videos on this.
@thedarkderp2520
the problem isn’t that Zack doesn’t know she’s dead, it’s more why would the developers plant that line there like that after the fact. If Aerith is dead, and Zack is telling Cloud “save her”….from a writing perspective that can’t be for nothing. There has to be a payoff now otherwise what’s the point. It almost feels like the developers are telling us the audience through Zack to ‘eventually’ save her, almost in a meta sense.
@@theonecalledlamorak6446 um what all he was asking of Cloud was to save her not knowing the truth that she's already dead idk feels like that's all there is to it
I love you both and I'm super happy to see you working together!
Great convo. Two of my favorite youtubers!
This might be a stretch, but doesn't sephiroth show Cloud (and the player) 2 lights representing worlds literally merging into one. Cloud goes through that light and winds up falling and landing in the forest shrouded in black. The world then changes into a white forest with Aeriths influence. I believe Clouds mind is coexisting in 2 worlds at once, while also going batshit crazy from his degredation/jenova cells
THIS
that makes sense since sephiroth told cloud he gave him his blessing , maybe that is to exist in both worlds at the same time.
I think this exactly!
I was thinking that exact thing too. At the end of the game it’s like cloud has all the pieces of a puzzle, he just has to solve it and put it together now.
Exactly, Sephiroth merged 2 worlds then say cloud need a little push, then only sent him into the merged portal
The combo announcer should be the Midgar 7th infantry. “Sick combo, SIR!”
Thanks for posting this video with Sphere Hunter, NSP!🙌🏽❤ I was worried that I missed out completely on it!🙌🏽✨️ Will give it a watch!
About Zack, CZcamsr Dan The Zam made a wonderful video on him and his importance in Rebirth. He mentions that Zack, just like an OG FF7, is still being primarily used as a narrative tool. Rather than focusing on him as a character, it’s about his impact on others. In Rebirth, that’s helping everyone change from accepting their death and end of the world, to having hope again (Biggs having a purpose, Elmyra hoping to see Aerith again, etc). His big payoff will most likely be to be the true foil to Sephiroth’s plan. Sephiroth has calculated everything…except Zack. Dan explains better. I recommend watching his video.
Btw NSP, awesome video! Great conversations.
Appreciate the fast upload of this stream NSP. I beaten ff7 rebirth week ago so I’m happy to see more discussion on it🙏🏽
you guys seem so chill! love the podcast
Those blue contacts are freaky bro
Woahhhhh what a team up!
Didn't know I needed this
Thank you for the discussion vid. Was great to see you two interact.
Funny, my tastes and opinions are very similar to both yours and Susy's historically and we went into Rebirth with generally the same mentality but I arrived at almost the complete opposite conclusion about the game overall.
Hope SE hands this system to Ito, tells him to polish it to a sheen, and makes it standard for the series. Would be wild to see this system with a FF5 style job system instead of materia, more customization, Paradigms, Gambits, party member swapping mid-combat (FFX). Lots of potential to grow and improve but a rock solid foundation. Definitely unique enough to become its own genre of action RPG.
About that 16 combat conversation: What I found so disappointing about the gameplay is how just Cloud's own progression and gameplay in Remake felt way better than Clive's whole kit. I'm not even talking about Rebirth, and I'm talking about one playable character in a game vs the ONLY playable character in another...
Question though do you want XVII to have all the systems in the Remake trilogy combined like airship, open zones etc. would that even possible considering it takes 3 games and decades to build those system?
I’m so glad that you two are friends!!!
I'd love for FF17 to have a mage protag. We've had sword boys and girls for sooooo long, give me a full on Black Mage pls.
While a Black Mage main character is nice on paper, getting the execution of them right is _way_ harder... The fact of the matter is that squishy wizards generally don't make for great main characters, specifically because their squishiness imposes a survival challenge that casual enjoyers of games don't always feel like they signed up for, and ranged magic combat alienates gamers who are more-so into action filled combat. It's basically why Red Mage-type characters are often picked instead: Because they strike a balance where they are tanky, but not as tanky as designated tanks; they have magic, but they are not reliant on it; they have (often advanced) melee combat capabilities, but if you feel that's kinda boring you can spring for something more epic for variety.
Now, I'm not saying that these problems couldn't be addressed: Aerith from FFVII Remake/Rebirth, V from Devil May Cry 5, magic class characters in Dragon's Dogma 2, etc. There are plenty of excellent examples of magic-heavy characters out there that are still fun to play as and not just a ranged shooter whose combat gets repetitive too fast for their own good, and I for one would love to see a Black Mage main character IF Square could nail the execution of it. (Also, magic needs to be given a narrative element outside of battle as well, kinda like in Okami. If we're going to be a mage, then let the story be one about a mage and not just a story about a character who uses magic while they are in combat.)
They were thinking of a shooter for FF17 which I opposed at first but then when it sank in.. A magic Shooter in FF style sounds insanely cool.
@@robertov.dibisceglia7887 It could be, provided it's not anything like Square's previous attempts at making shooters. **glances at messes like Dirge of Cerberus and The First Soldier**
Need moreeee rebirth spoiler/theory/discussion pods - keep em cominnnnnnn
16's a good game but my issues with it are mostly gameplay related.
Combat is good but the enemies and combat encounters are just boring and don't really encourage experimentation or require different approaches. Look at games like Remake/Rebirth with all sorts of unique enemies with different ways to pressure/stagger them or enemies just have unique movesets you can't just spam away at them with. KH2's reaction commands has tons of different ways to react with enemies. CrossCode is another game also has tons of enemies with different ways to "stagger" (that game uses a similar mechanic called "Break").
In FF16, its always the same uniform enemies that don't really do anything interesting or unique to make you want to change your playstyle. The common "mook" enemies are just standing around waiting for you to kill them. What you guys said about how spamming Ignition is the best way clear enemies out was spot on. It's what I did too. Later when i got bahamut's flame breath, i basically did the same thing with it.
This issue is also combined with the fact that Eikon's being the only source of new abilities sucks when the gap between new eikons is a long ass time. Unlocking the block function in the game takes 20+ hours for example lol. You can craft for new swords but... the swords barely make any difference at all. just higher attack stat. It's fun in RPGs when you can feel yourself getting stronger getting new spells, abilities, gear, etc. This game heavily lacks in that aspect. Feels like the game was made for people who just do not like RPGs.
The optional content in the game is also just... severely lacking variety. just about every single side-quests is a generic fetch quest or a fight against a bunch of enemies (who, again, are very boring to fight). they do tend to have decent stories but damn. they could've at least had some unique battle objectives in these quests like defending an NPC or object. something you'd see in other action games. this game doesn't even attempt that in the quests or the main story. its staggering for a game of this length to just lack any form of varied battles or activities.
So to summarize: the game has lackluster combat encounter/enemy design, lacking in good RPG development (gaining new abilities, gear, etc. throughout the game), and lacking in variety of optional and main story content. in the end I came out feeling very dry on the gameplay. I don't think its a bad game but I still never went back for any of the DLC and I don't think ever will.
I feel like these new timelines are implied to be fractures of one original timeline, like pieces breaking off of Gaia's crystal, so to speak. This is different from other multiverses in fiction where timelines multiply in contrast.
This is important distinction, because it tells us that Gaia timelines are increasingly unstable.
Sephiroth has created a "Reunion" that is both dangerous and necessary.
To me it was also Aerith who stood out in both, Remake and Rebirth. A fascinating character who was able to break down Cloud's walls in no time while not having the advantage of knowing him since childhood. While I didn't care too much about her dying in the OG, this one crushed me. I really fell in love with her and everything she represents in the remakes.
Also Aerith's relationship with Tifa was extremely heartwarming. Aerith managed to also break her walls down almost immediately and establish a solid relationship with her. I think due to her sheer popularity we will have some scenes with Aerith in part 3 and I really wished that Tifa would also sense her, to have a last or more touching moment together. They were a great team.
Tifa has always been my favourite (because of "the" scene we're certainly going to see in part 3; my favourite scene in the game), but I also cared about Aerith much more this time. In fact, that scene is one of few moments where they could do a brief Tifa/Aerith reunion at the end (there's always been speculation that she helped Cloud/Tifa return to the surface, so why not). It's just my theories though, of course, they may end up doing something different - at the end, for example.
*Spoiler*
I was initially very upset with the way they handled that last scene but the more i think about it... it kind of makes sense, i think they are setting up the stage for the next game where Cloud is going to have to face all his inner demons, they want the players to experience what truly happened through Clouds own recollection in real time, that's when we will see the classic water burial scene as a flashback, etc...
I feel a lot of us feel that way now. I teared up knowing our time with this serious came to an end but now it’s more than that
The more u cope and simp and listen to people tell u you like it smh.the ending suck,period
@@holy9781 that's just your opinion, period
@@holy9781sorry to tell you but if you can't accept or at least be civil about opinions that disagree with yours then you're the one coping
@@holy9781 Ending? What are you on about the ending is not coming until like 3 years later
I’ll be honest here, FFVII Rebirth is the best game I’ve played in the last 10 years or more.
After two weeks of finishing it, I still think about it. I was sad after finishing it, because we have to wait years until the next part and because after over after it.
I think the last time I had a this sort of missing feeling about a game was with God of War 2 on the PS2.
And yes, I had hopes of saving Aerith this time around.
19:05 I need Mid screaming "Greagor's gash!" each time Clive gets over a mil arcade points.
Great greagor °
I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't like parts of the ending. The whispers, the whole "fake black materia" change, the multiverse plunge after it only being lightly sprinkled throughout the rest of the game: It felt like i was going crazy having little to no issue with 90+% of the game and then getting this huge sinking feeling the more they pushed that in. It felt very tacked on and hard to justify. I think in the end they pulled out of a nosedive, so i'm cautiously optimistic the third game will go well, even if i'll likely have some more qualms later.
47:47 I would love to think Cid is wearing a mask, there’s just no way. If he were just interacting with customers, it could be his salesman routine (which is what I hoped was the case). But he’s been with gang too long and been through too much for it to be an act. Ffs his plane crashes and he doesn’t have a foul word to say.
He says shit a few times, but I'm with ya- When meteors in the sky I hope to get a "Well...we're fucked *pulls out smokes*"
49:22 I initially REALLY didn't like the ending and in retrospect it was because I didn't understand it after the initial watch. I had to re-watch it, and watch/read a few ending explained and have a lot of things pointed out to me. Now I'm ok with it and waiting to see how it plays into part 3. I GET if people don't like it because there is legit reasons why it's not the best thing they could have done in this situation but it does seem that most of what they did was intentional and not something they pulled out of nowhere so I'm willing to judge it as a whole once part 3 is out. If anything is spawning discussion and theories which is something more then if it was just what we expected.
Discuss Barret’s nervous breakdown over the thought of Marlene getting old and moving out
I admit, I was left confused by the ending as I was experiencing it. There was that elation when Cloud stopped Sephiroth's blade, as well as disbelief that Square-Enix actually did it. And then it flashed to the blood so I wasn't sure what was going on. Then I saw everyone else's reaction and knew that Aerith was dead. And then Cloud's talking to her and I gave up trying to figure it out.
To Nomura's credit, he at least knew people were likely not going to be happy with the ending. The optimist in me believes this actually will lead to something satisfying in Part 3. The cynic in me thinks they set it up so that Aerith will live or die based on fan reaction. The realist thinks they don't actually know where they're going with the whole thing but they wanted to keep everyone invested while they work on the final chapter.
Totally agree Sphere, Rebirth is the Remake I wanted.
I wonder what we'll see if the party passes through Modeoheim on their way to the crater in part 3. What ever the staff does, I hope it's their vision. Just seeing these characters and being with them again is incredible.
Always absolutely love crossovers with Spherehunter. They’re my favourite!
I wanted an actuall story, not the meta subversion of a story, as a non ff7 og fan I was totally left out. And im not sure there is any appeal for me to get the third game.
As a fan of the o.g i am also disappointed with the direction they took with storytelling. So they basically didn't satisfy the large part of fanbase of the o.g or the newcomers. Just look how the sales plummeted for Rebirth compared to Remake. My younger brother also never played the o.g and we played trough both games together and he was confused with Zack so much i had to spoil a major twist from the o.g just so he could understand wtf is going on.
What if you played the original at some point before the third game? It's never to late. I mean maybe it shouldn't be necessary to get the most out of the remake the way that it is at the moment. But in my opinion the original still holds up if you can adjust to the graphical style.
@@milemile4813 nothing about the final act has ant weight because it plays as if you already know what is gonna happen and then expects you to be surpiced with the result. A real fumble, didnt even get the ending and dont care all that much anymore.
@@DaRkLoRd-rc5yu is not like I couldnt. Dont think im gonna. I just have other stuff going on and when I game I play New releases.
They robbed a new generation of their aerith moment. I'm an og fan and I know why they did what they did. But anyone unfamiliar with og ff7 has a right to feel burned.
Maybe I misunderstood but there is already jump material in the game unless you meant added to his abilities.
I honestly believe that as time goes on and the more we know. We will appreciate the ending of both remake and rebirth.
I replayed remake after rebirth. And i had this wild feeling that when we first meet sephiroth, he already did everything in rebirth..
Almost like time is in a never-ending loop that gets replayed every time we replay!......😮 omg that's probably the name of the 3rd game!!!!😮
15:15 just remembering how i slammed leon with ignition in the pride comes before the fall sidequest 😂
49:18 to 1:11:26
I think all the points you both made are basically all the points I feel many OG fans feel ultimately about Rebirth. There were good aspects of the game but ultimately the ending had too much going on for what should have been a much more clear moment. Either we saved Aerith or we don't. and Cloud's trauma is no longer just a mental break but potentially the effect of the multiverse. which ultimately creates a convoluted situation.
Also i think Zack did feel underused as well. I think his story will probably matter a lot more next game, but it is just disappointing that his part in the story wasn't given enough importance.
Lastly, I don't personally like the idea of completely changing the 3rd part. but then again we've already introduced the multiverse and the fact that Zack is somehow back. So i supposed things have already changed. But my hope is that it ultimately ends similar to how it ended in the OG-VII. obviously some things will inevitably be different, but hopefully the most important narrative parts of the story remain the same, including the ending. either way we'll see 🤔
My only solace is that I don't really see this as a multiverse. It's not like Spider-Man where there are literally other Spider-Men that can interact.
It really feels like there is only one universe and only one planet. Then there are these "fractured" worlds, which I believe there's even a question if they're fully there. I find it interesting that Midgar is the only place that is ever shown in the alternate "universes". It really just seems like it's some dream world that Aerith was able to create.
og fan here. I honestly just think it has to do with your read on the scene because it seems straight forward and consistent to me. What I really like about the ending here is the payoff and consistency for Cloud's character. Cloud has ALWAYS been somebody who copes with trauma through rearranging memories and suppressing them, we have seen him do this with Zack and the Nibelhiem incident. Cloud straight up forgetting that he saw Aerith die in front of him is not only consistent to his character but it also sets up for insane conflicts in the next game. A scene that I see barely anybody talking about is the scene where the whole crew is standing over the water Aerith's body is in. Barret says that they have to leave and Cloud (after the whole crew saw him witness a death right in front of him) says very unsympathetically "sounds good" and this makes Tifa SCOFF. Then, Tifa gets up slowly and looks at Cloud (seemed like an invitation for Cloud to mourn with her) and he literally responds with a SMILE. This is NOT normal behavior for somebody who just saw one of his closest friends/lovers DIE in front of them. What this does is creates a wedge between Cloud and the group, he can no longer mourn for them, understand them, relate to them, this leaves Cloud in a VERY BIG hole that he must dig himself out of. I am somebody who personally believes that the worse the situation, the better the triumphant come back is. The lifestream plot twist will be EVEN MORE impactful now due to the conflicts that will arise due to the event that is Aerith's death. Also, I don't think the multiverse stuff will be that impactful at all. Sephiroth says that the alternate worlds created are doomed to fade NO MATTER HOW RESILIENT THEY ARE. They are completely and utterly temporary. Aerith, whether she's a force ghost, or in another world, is completely dead. This is why Aerith says "goodbye" at the end. They wouldn't write that line for no reason.
@@KingdomKeyJT 100% agree with you. The Remake trilogy has made Cloud's mental health 1000 times better and more intriguing than the OG. Plus it's so much more interesting as a player not knowing exactly how things are going to play out. They're setting up some awesome dramatic moments with Cloud that will be brand new to players. I'd argue the best part of Rebirth was the Gongaga section w/Tifa. That was maybe my favorite moment in the entire FFVII catalogue aside from the original lifestream sequence.
It was way too subtle in the OG that when he beats up Aerith they don't even address it. Right after beating up Aerith and giving Sephiroth the black materia, they show up at the Forgotten Capital and Cloud is all "hey guys let me go talk to her alone, even though I just beat her up" and the party is "yeah cool that sounds like a great idea!"
@@thatstheway2429 Exactly and I totally agree with you. The great thing about the Gongaga section with Tifa is that THIS IS THE KIND OF CONFLICT THEY'RE SETTING UP FOR. Cloud is going to be even more unhinged and detached from reality now. We are going to get more conflicts like that and it will be so incredibly impactful when the lifestream sequence happens due to those conflicts. And yeah that scene always threw me off in the OG, he's beating on her and Cait Sith makes a joke during it, very untasteful and bad. It is also weird that the OG had Cloud going in there alone. I LOVE that they changed it to Aerith trying to stop Cloud from getting in (it was a white whisperer wall meaning that Aerith was trying to stop Cloud from seeing her death) and then the black whisperers helped Cloud get in since Sephiroth wants Cloud to witness the death. It just ALL MAKES MORE SENSE. Something else that makes more sense is Cloud raising his sword to end Aerith's life. In the original, he's resisting it, but how? If it effects his brain and the cells in his body, how is he resisting it? Now, they changed it to where the WHISPERERS are trying to make Cloud strike down but none of the cells are effecting his mind in that moment, so it makes more sense that he would resist it. I just LOVE all the decisions they've been making.
Personally i think the multiverse thing is real. And for all of the extra story implications it brings, i think in reality in reality its inclusion is mainly about establishing a logical link to fan service without harming the og altogether, mainly focusing really on aeriths death. There are many players who would love to see aerith survive unlike in the og, and then there are players who think aeriths survival would ruin the game for them. I think the retrilogy is mainly trying to straddle the line by trying to appease both sides. Aerith staying dead in the main timeline while effectively being saved in an alternate timeline yet to be explored. The same could be said for zack and i hope his story is further explored in part 3 (or possible dlc?)
what fans really want - commitment to a story direction that doesn't take 3 games spanning 10 years to make sense of.
Speak for yourself. There's a lot to make sense of and not knowing the exact details is perfect. For me and my personal taste... This is perfection. Better than I couldve dreamt possible. Long may FF7 games continue to thrive!
@@upon-fe2720 i am speaking for myself, im literally playing on the words in the thumbnail. Sorry you couldnt catch on and felt the need to get defensive about your "perfect" game.
The fans don't know what they want. Square would be lazy if they didnt take the risks to be greater. One rush game like ff15, or 3 games released on scheduled. People thought remake was never coming because they scrapped it and restart the project from scratch. Let's count our blessings that we received the product. This is not ending up like versus13. People got desperate and wanted whatever Square had, and it was the first episode. If this was just one game, it would look like versus13 10+years development hell all over again.
I’m fairly new to Final Fantasy as a whole. It just never hit my sphere as a kid. My first game was VII Remake and my second was FFXVI, so people will come after me for saying things I suppose, but while I thought the combat was fun in XVI, its strongest points were its story and characters and that’s where it hits home for me. I was very compelled by it. Not a bad idea that they made a game that’s super accessible to newcomers as it could open up the greater world of FF to others who have yet to experience it. I, for one, am one of those players and now I’m going down the rabbit hole and absolutely loving every moment! Oh and Rebirth was incredible. I can’t wait for part 3. Just finished Crisis Core: Reunion not too long after. Love the channel!
Nah, as a long-time FF fan, I get where you're coming from... FFXVI has plenty of flaws in the eyes of us veterans, but most of us have seen about a dozen FF games' worth of stories and characters that we're comparing it to, so of course plenty of us end up with attitudes like "This story is not as deep as that of my favourite FF game in the series" or "These characters are not as interesting as my favourite FF cast"... Newcomers, however, go into these games unburdened by expectations and without a boatload of comparisons and biases, so if you feel that FFXVI's story and characters struck a chord with you then that's valid and I'm not planning on arguing against you. You are, after all, in the process of creating your own list of favourite FF games and characters, and that's a journey that's always highly personal. I just hope you'll enjoy your stay in the FFandom. ^^
@@GrahamChapmanThank you for your response! Yeah, I guess through my eyes, it’s all very new and shiny, but I will say I’m definitely a big FF fan now, forever. I actually started FFX recently and have been loving it! After that, I’m going go to FFVI and experience that and bounce around. I know FFXIII is divisive, but that one intrigues me, though I can’t find a way to play it on the PS5. I’m along for the ride now and I’m loving it!
@@N7Reign84 FFX is a great game. It had my favourite turn-based-combat in the entire FF series. (Remake and Rebirth's combat systems are better imo, but they are not quite the same sorta turn-based combat, y'know.) Also, great music.
Personal recommendation for FFVI: See if you can find a GBA emulator and a FFVI Advance ROM with the Sound Restoration patch/hack. It is, bar none, the best version and way to enjoy FFVI: The Advance version of the game has fixed the worst bugs of the SNES version, and while the sound quality of Advance is obviously kinda meh, the hack fixes that. (The pixel remaster is nothing to scoff at though.)
Oh yeah... There are... issues... with FFXIII... Most of my own issues boil down to "overacted melodrama that'd be more at home in a soap opera." You're free to give it a go though. I mean, I cannot deny that I enjoyed certain parts of XIII to some extents as well, so it's best up to you.
Personal recommendations:
FFXV, though it went through _a lot_ to reach the point where it could be considered a full game, has a special place in my own heart. (Do note, however, that lots of people, myself included, regard the Royal Edition as what the Day 1 edition _should_ have been, so if you decide to give it a go, the Royal Edition is almost a must.)
FFIV and its sequel, The After Years, is another good old FF classic. (Enough so that it and FFVI tend to compete with each other among the fans over which one was the better game among the old-school Final Fantasies. Speaking of which.)
FFIX hearkens back to the old-school FF games, but it's so damn charming and intriguing, it's more than able to stand on its own merits. (Rumours about a FFIX remake being in the works are also doing the rounds, so that's something worth keeping your eyes peeled for... On a related note: Check the fan-made "Memoria Project" if you've got half-an-hour to spare.)
Dissidia Final Fantasy for the PSP, as well as its prequel, Duodecim, was a really good FF fighting game spin-off, enough so that it's often regarded as up there as one of the best PSP titles. That said, it's hard to come by a PSP these days so, y'know... Being the kinda game it is, it's also more enjoyable if you've played (or are at the very least familiar with) FF 1-10.
Finally (pun not intended) I have to give it to The Critically Acclaimed MMORPG FFXIV with an Expanded Free Trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award-winning Heavensward expansion and also the the award-winning Stormblood expansion up to Level 70 For Free with No Restrictions On Playtime. If you liked FFXVI, then I think you'd love FFXIV. Though, being a love-letter to the FF series as a whole, you get more out of it the more FF games you've played through (or are familiar with). The 6th expansion is on its way right now so it's quite the epic to play it, too. As in, you can expect to put 200-300 hours into the main quest alone, and I'd heartily recommend plenty of the side content (which should add another 200-ish hours to your playtime).
@@GrahamChapman All fantastic suggestions and roadmaps for me to go by!
That TheShpereHunter got that Delux voice
I could listen to her for days
THANK YOU, Rebirth Cid gave me the literal ick. Hope they're playing it out like this for contrast when we meet Shera
it still kinda feels like aerith is a sacrificial lamb but i get she did it to save cloud and the world but, if every world ended up the same way with meteor falling, and only 1 timeline was the one that aerith was alive , then its safe to assume even if she didnt die, the planet could still be saved
Nice!
Hey i freaking love the work you do on here, great video also as for the cigarettes they're not allowed to use them in this game, if they did it would have to have a M rating so they had to remove it.... love you :)
Finally discussion on how FFXVI stacks up as an action game!
I love her for all her dmc content now I get to see her doing some ff7 talks.
I also have a theory that Hojo knows that Tifa escaped the Nibelheim attack when he was rounding up all of the victims that were unconscious, and hojo later collects a blood sample from Tifa and he figures out that he needs all of the victims from the nibelheim incident, thus motivating Hojo to kidnap Tifa and experiment on her during the Midgar raid, thus motivating Cloud to save Tifa from Hojo.
I totally agree with keeping the combat system the same for 17. Use spins offs to experiment kinda like how persona does ir
I'm usually pretty decent at seeing all the possible routes that can play out for an ending but I can't really think of one they can do for this game where the payoff of all this new lore is worth it and leaves most people satisfied. If everything ends relatively similar to before then people will be furious that they added the whispers. If everything gets blown wide open to the point where they can almost indefinitely create DLC then they really risk people losing interest as well as trust. Maybe they'll end it like the movie Edge of Tomorrow where Cloud is suddenly back in Midgar right before he's about to run into Aerith for the first time, and he has all the memories of what has happened and you just see him smile when he sees her and then the credits roll.
Just finished the game and had to go see this spoiler video. Amazing discussion.
11:07
The arcade mode that throws ultimaniac mode pretty much pushes you to your limit with the combo's and dodges, some you can change up the loadouts, some you can't but it does grade you and some people actually never knew of it's existence unless they sifted through it lol
Main story just wanted to tell a story versus XIII's harsh grading system lol
The setting of Midgar called for "corridors." What's so hard to grasp about that?
And it was less fun as a result. Whats so hard to grasp about that? Lol
@@TheNightSkyPrince That's a fair enough opinion, but the confusion over why the first game was more linear than the second (which is brought up in this video) is a bit obtuse.
Imagine if Ink Ribbon was here as well!
The funny part about the people who worked on palworld is there are a lot of creative people who are not in they're dream jobs and in min wage jobs etc. because they couldn't afford schooling or already had they're degrees but couldn't get a job at the place.
While I have one of the people who has said that FF7 Remake trilogy is something similar to Rebuild of Evangelion movies, I also have been saying that, even with that in mind, I hope they don't make the U turn it did on 3.33 that lead to 3.0+1.0, and one of the reasons Rebuild of Evangelion did that, in part, was because the idea was to lead since the begining into a new unique ending, which in turn makes 3.33 kind of makes sense. For FF7 Remake trilogy, it should and I think the devs have already said it, it would lead to the same end as OG FF7 and lead into Advent Children, and having a complete new story for part 3 kind of defeats that purpouse in my opinion, even if with that you get to the exact same ending that leads into Advent Children. This is not a purist thing, it's more like the idea is completely different from Rebuild of Evangelion. Thankfully the devs haven't fully gone into a Evangelion 3.33, except perhaps in Rebirth's ending, but even then, they are mostly just making things confusing just to get people hooked to wait for the next game, rather than to completely change the story.
Such a good point about it being better if they’d just focused on Clouds denial and greif.
I definitely felt as though it didn’t feel the full impact of her death because I was so confused as to what was actually happening. Which in my opinion was such a disservice to Aerith.
Which just felt like an even bigger disappointment after I’d found the vast majority of the game to be excellent.
Yeah, that’s my main complaint with the ending. It feels like it sacrifices the emotional impact of one of the most famous and impactful scenes in video game history, overstuffing it full of tons of different things that distract and take away from it. The mystery of what’s happening, the extremely long boss fight gauntlet, and some incredibly hype moments all take away from what should have been an absolute emotional gut punch.
It’s still a fantastic game, and I’m really looking forward to the third part, but I can’t help but feel like, for me, they stumbled in the one place they really couldn’t afford to.
@@Zakemaster I wouldn't call it a stumble, moreso the nature that, no matter what, people were going to complain about what happened there.
Just about everyone who has played this game knows that Aerith dies in the original. Whatever emotional gut punch there would have been in Rebirth would be partially wasted had they simply gone through the same beats. And then people would have just moved on to the rest of the game; Aerith's death isn't some unfortunate circumstance, it's just the thing that's supposed to happen. No one who knew Aerith dies in the original was *ever* going to feel the full force of what happened. Heck, I played FF7 for the first time in 2002ish and even by then I knew Aerith dies before I played it. There was no real emotional shock, simply "The thing that was supposed to happen, happened".
I would rather what they did in Rebirth than just retread old ground, because there's still emotional impact, and there's still mystery. Even if not everyone could appreciate it, Squeenix seems to have succeeded in what they were trying to do. Granted, I can't say how many people played the original and, in some way, disliked Aerith's death, although I do know there were efforts to try to see if she could be saved.
@@RippahRooJizahi agree like this game is in no way trying to retread 1:1 the same events, everything context wise of familiar events has been expanded and Aeriths death is just handled altogether differently which I feel like it should've. You spend the entirety of two games wondering if she's going to die because its expected by everyone and the remake team knows this.
A majority of the impact from these scenes comes from not knowing and even up until the moment the idea that I wasnt sure if it was or wasnt happening was exciting. I won't pretend like the Multiverse shit beyond that point didnt confuse me, but the teamwork spectacles, Cloud and Zack and Cloud and Aerith fighting Sephiroth before sending Aerith off felt great/fun for me.
The implication Aerith is going to Zacks world is a little weird but I'm curious as to how that will develop in part 3
As an elder gen Z who got into Final Fantasy in middle school, I had heard about X2's great combat and job system but zero details so after beating X and starting X2 I was both blown away and confused af lol. I didn't get past the first 8 hours but I'll get back to it one day for my self satisfaction lol
I feel ya on the Cid stuff. I think the reason why Cid fell so off is because his characterisation is completely different. In the original, we're introduced to him as a foul-mouthed, bombastic curmudgeon with a chip on his shoulder who's jaded from what we learn was his past and his crushed dreams. The fact that we didn't see Rocketown here and he's a jovial pilot, almost as if to some extent he's resolved his character arc, I think maybe we'll see some narrative shifting around so that the events that preceded us meeting Cid in the original will happen in part 3 so that we can see that transformation in this character and then the subsequent character arc play out and resolve as we have come to expect.
I also long for the days of 2000s Japanese nerd culture. Nothing brings me back to that time more than listening to the Leet Street boys.
I really want chrono trigger back with this combat system. !!! My last childhood dream
NSP would you be satisfied if the trilogy ended the same as og where it leads to advent children? By the end of DoC it’s implied Geostigma is still around and for some reason Genesis and Weiss are doing something? Idk it would feel weird to me if the compilation ended with a kinda depressing world and a cliffhanger ending. Personally I hope they drag AC and Dirge stuff forward into part 3 and fully get rid of jenova corruption.
The things missing to me in XVI is button delay combos like metal gear rising and devil may cry (also bayonetta)
Other then that i liked xvi's combat, would also benefit from elemental damage, buffs debuffs
If they combained the above with button delays and combo patterns that would've been amazing
God of war 2018 and Ragnarok are action games and have more depth than FF16’s combat. There’s elemental damage, like Frost, Burn, Poison and Hex in those games in addition to buffs and debuffs. Yoshi P was just lazy for not adding them. Nobody should let that man near a single player FF game again. How can God of war have more rpg elements that a Final Fantasy game? This is why many are saying FF7 Rebirth should be the standard for the series going forward. Throw away FF16’s combat pls
@@dammyoyesanya4656 i disagree
U can't jump in ragnarok
Both games are great
@@shaiuken7150 I’d rather have grounded combat where my actions and decisions before and during combat matter than jumping in the air and juggling enemies to maintain a 5000 hit combo. Jump button doesn’t mean anything to me if these aren’t there. I like depth. That’s why 300+ hrs into FF7 Remake and now 170+hrs into FF7 Rebirth’s combat I’m not bored. Whereas I got bored with FF16’s combat after 30 hrs of playtime as it got stale quick
@@dammyoyesanya4656 fair opinion, cant argue
I agree with you guys on wishing 7 Remake was just a 10-15 hour game. In my latest playthrough I ended up feeling it could've been shorter. It's a good game but it covers such a small part of FF7, I don't think it needed to be as long as it did.
One thing clicked for me listening to parts of this, which is that the parts of FF7R that frustrate me are not when the game is being different from the original, it is when it is being the *same* as a lot of what else is in our current media landscape. Hearing Suzi talk about how it felt like being a kid again I thought well, this was true for me in some areas but not others. It felt like FF as a series was stepping back into certain surface-level elements that reflect what made me fall in love with the series (big wide open areas, a nice mix of fun goofiness and genuine drama), but in other ways it was a little depressing to be playing FF7 and have it feel like everything else, both in the Horizon-esque game structure and in the multiverse storyline. That made me realize that I value the concept of the FF7 remake project for it's capacity to be different from the current churn of games - either by bringing back something that feels lost, or to take us to something new. And it is doing both of those things at times, but the aspects that I find disappointing are when it feels like it isn't - and weirdly enough, the multiverse stuff feels like one of the times it *isn't* despite that seemingly being the most new thing
Honestly I just want a third game that ties everything together in a way that makes sense (or at least mostly makes sense). I think they're going for the whole, 'Your universe is a false one' twist. But either way, as long as the last part makes sense by the end, it's fine.
We got a ton of new information on ff7 rebirth in the Ultimania, and stuff regarding part 3.
"Rebirth is literally turn based combat adapted in action gameplay"
YESSS. Thank you! Exactly. I dont know what some people mean when they say Remake/Rebirth is just action and not turn based. Anyone who says that clearly did not understand the battle system. You have to wait and load up an ATB bar to make your turn, thats LITERALLY turn based. The only difference is that you can move the character around, block and do basic attacks. And that gives you something to do while the ATB fills up and basic attacking will make the ATB load faster, so it is interactive and engaging and also incentive.
The middle manager is the best character.
In regards to the battle system of FFXVII having something like Remake/Rebirth; while I'm in agreement for the most part, I would definitely need to change it up some. Like keep the core of it there, but play around with it some, like how Vagrant Story's battle system felt like a Parasite Eve's, just modified. If they can do that, I'm all for it.
Blown-out Ben Starr is such a vibe now
1:17:21 I live for discussion of third-person shooting mechanics in FF games.
Love the @TheSphereHunter
Nobody reviews a game they love, like reeeeally love, the way she reviews RE3Remake
To comment on FF16, the biggest missed opportunity was not having elemental weaknesses when all the Eikons had different elemental affinities for no reason.
Yeah I don’t know why the FF16 team didn’t add it. God of war Ragnarok had elemental weaknesses. Your axe did frost damage, blades did burn, Atreus arrows did Sonic and Freya’s arrows did Hex. And there were enemies that were weak to these elements and the effects showed. And then we have FF7 Rebirth combat that is literally Final Fantasy combat perfected. All the spells, elemental weaknesses, buffs, debuffs, status ailments, party membersetc of traditional FF games are here with a fantastic blend of turn based and real time action. Yoshi p and his team were just lazy when designing FF16’s combat. It truly could’ve been so much better. And many of his fanboys make excuses for him when there’s so much out there that shows he could’ve done it
@@dammyoyesanya4656 I wouldn’t call Yoshi’s team “lazy”, that’s a bit of a reach but I definitely agree that the 7Remake trilogy is Final Fantasy combat perfected. I’d love to see FF17 or some new mainline title stick to this form of combat. It’s truly the middle ground between action and rpg. Give us new characters and MAYBE tweak the magic considering a new FF continuity probably wouldn’t have materia and it’d be great
This would limit creativity. If you wanted to play with a light and darkness build because it's the most fun to you but the level you're playing has enemies resistant to light and weak to ice then you're heavily incentivised to change your playstyle. That just gets annoying when you're switching all the time to abilities that don't fit your playstyle as much
@@ViridianMaridian Well that’s the whole point of trying to retain the RPG-ness of the game. With that being said, if you’re solid with executing combos, you’d have more fun destroying enemies that are resistant to the element you’re using just by the nature that you could style on them more (saying this as a DMC/character action game player). On top of that, it’d factor in perfectly with the fact that once you master an ability, you can slot it into any Eikon setup. The game is literally already built for it.
Phenomenal job to both of you.
Full disclosure: I loved the game and it may be…my favorite Final Fantasy of all time. WITH THAT SAID!
I agree with NSP that…you don’t really need the multiverse to tell this exact story. The Aerith that died can be visiting Cloud in the end without a multiverse. She can even be the Aerith from the OG traveling back in time. The lifestream can exist during all time(s). It doesn’t mean that an infinite amount of realities are playing out simultaneously.
Where we disagree is that if this all turned out to be window dressing, I wouldn’t really mind. It was enough for me to be in that world again. That alone justified whatever they are toying with here.
Great, great discussion and thoughts. Thank you.
In final fantasy 17 Zack should come from the world of ff7 and help them with their final boss like in a Power rangers tv series. It is morphing time!
you should have make the game play in the 3rd window ! to make it more this video more interesting
Question. I know this is going to sound stupid, but would it have been better if they ended Rebirth post Northern Crater showing Cloud break down in front of all of our eyes, and then show everyone else wake up in Midgar with Meteor coming? Maybe make an ending of despair similar to The Empire Strikes Back?
This is what upset me with the ending to Rebirth. I feel like they are pulling their punches to have a more potent scene in the final game but I am not convinced it will pan out if we all have to wait 4 more years for the final game.
Time will tell, I guess.
Empire Strikes Back still ended with giving hope to the Rebels though. That this was just a setback and they will prevail in the end.
Rebirth already feels that way with them losing Aerith but still was able to defeat Sephiroth (again) but with them still dealing with the grief.
Just imagine ff16 but every Eikon came with a different weapon. Like for example Odin coming with a spear since you use Gungnir. Or daggers or something with shiva. Would have made the combat more dmc with how you can switch weapons with Dante
regarding the ending, yeah, i feel the same as you guys. the narration was badly told. It's an exemple where "less is more" would have been better. Just let each moment breath, let the emotions
the reason the Zack sections had an option to skip is because they are actually story segments disguised as gameplay segments so there isn't much point in doing them on a new game plus if you just have gameplay objectives
For what it's worth, on the Rebirth ending, I think it would have been incredibly powerful if they had played out the scene of Cloud saving her - through his perspective. Maybe some very subtle hints something was off, but not much. Then, to play it out from Tifa's perspective - even though she didn't witness it in the original. That would have left me absolutely bawling - just like the original scene did. After that, the following scenes would have been just as powerful a testament to Cloud's broken world and the last scene would be the same. Lastly, AFTER ALL THAT, there wasn't the beautiful water scene. But that's a whole other opinion.
In part 3 the story can have a serious turn only if sephiroth get the dragonball treatment and join the party after being defeated. than they travel trought space and time to defeat the original JENOVA lol
I believe that 16 woul've been a tab bit better if elemental afinities and weaknesses had been exploited. Also The Eikons/dominant relationships could've been more fleshed out if they had attached some sort of job and weapon system to the abilities. For instance Titan would've made Clive a mix of Monk/Berserker dude with fist weapons and earth imbued weapons. Odin a Dark/time magic skills holder that could use the gravity spells and speedup/slow down time. Can you imagine if Zantetsuken could've been its own unique weapon, or tied behind Masamune? Those are some ideas I thought of as I played the game.
Spot on that Midgar should have been 10 hours. They should have done a MGS Ground Zeroes and nobody would have batted an eye.
Who is canonically changing stamp? If it's the life force why wouldn't care about a propaganda icon? Or is it someone in the past predicting these timelines splits? Does it say who the original in-game artist who made it for shinra?
I think rebirth excluding chapter 14 is peak fiction all around and an improvement on the original narratively. Chapter 14 fumbles pretty hard though
Give Cid a Joint instead and I'm all for it.
If ReTrilogy combat is used moving forward, I'd like to see better AI and Aggro management. Even just selecting a character role when AI Controlled would be awesome (Party Leader should never be AI, only non-controlled members, unlike 12 where everyone could be AI Controlled). Switching party members is great, but I feel ReTrilogy is too focused on constantly switching to drive ATB and manage aggro. Rebirth does give some interesting tools with the auto materias, but lacks any tutorial or transparency on how they work, and selecting an AI role would be more clear; ie Role DPS: Damage (focus on skills with highest raw dmg output), Role DPS: Stagger (Focus on skills to pressure and drive up stagger), Role Healer, Role Support: Defense, etc.
"Aerith can stay on the floor" Bruhh what a low blow
I think Zack ends Rebirth in the main timeline, and he will deal with the ‘return to Midgar’ section, while the rest of the party is dealing with Wutai.
Or possibly he will see the report of Cloud’s party being captured and is the one to bust them out in Junon.
suzi my beloved
I’m really worried that they totally sanitized Cid. I remember him as being really bitter, cursing up a storm, smoking, and being borderline abusive toward Shera. Then his character growth involves learning to care again and achieving his dreams and not being bitter anymore. Starting off with a bizarrely happy Cid was WEIRD.
I’m thinking once we get to exploring his backstory, we will see the Cid we have known.
@@joegardner851Yeah, it could be like how Barret gets grumpy when he goes back to Corel. When they’re away from that source of past trauma they can forget about it for a while
We do get to see a glimpse of the "real" him. It's likely that his personality we saw in Rebirth is a business facade. When things go wrong like when the Bronco's engines blew up Cid was shutting everybody up and later when Barret confronts Cid on working with Shinra, Cid straight up told him not to talk to him in that way
@@mingQWERTY exactly, we have hints of the "real" Cid, but they are mitigated by both the feelings he seemed to have for Ifalna making him sweeter to Aerith and the party being clients to his business.
But outside of these we get to see his abrasiveness, his attitude.
They toned down Barret's foul mouth, but at least he has the same personality. Cid, on the other hand, has been completely bastardized.
She’s got that buttery kind of voice you wanna hear on radio.
Happy for the changes in the story, but don’t justify it with a multiverse fake out
This isn't DMC?
I think every whisper with a white materia is an Aerith, and every whisper with a black materia is a Sephiroth. We're seeing a showdown of the council of Aeriths vs the Sephiroth Society, and this convoluted remake plot is the one variation out of millions where Aerith beats Sephiroth once and for all.
To do that, she needed to die in such a way that she is also alive, in a merged universe of Sephiroth's doing. But he hasn't realized what's really happened, which is why she was "pretending" while her eyes were opening and soothing Cloud. This is also why Zack is being constantly teleported and assisted throughout the multiverse as other Aeriths position him for the final battle. Not the one we see here, but the one in the 3rd game.
The payoff is that the real final battle, and the actual fate of Aeirth, is pushed to the end of the 3rd game. She might still die, she might live, but we're now all officially in the same boat regardless of your history with the franchise.
I believe that the "death" is being moved into the 3rd game also helps with the feeling that this ending is just kinda... empty. It doesn't feel final or impactful, and these games have no fear of ripping your heart out. But instead, they've done a thing that just makes it feel incredibly unresolved. So regardless of the details, I truly believe Aerith's fate all comes down to the next game.