10 Important Ways Magic: The Gathering Online Is Better Than Magic Arena
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MTG Arena is rigged. The shuffler and match maker is enforcing a winrate % so people spend more money in the game. It is disgusting.
Arena can't still do multi-player. Also the tutorial for Arena interface is practically non existent
How much can you do on Magic Online for no money though?
Watch MTGA implement half of these things in the backend update.
I mean let's be real Brian...If you are a casual player, you don't want to put 2-300 bucks everytime you want to try a new deck. On MTGA the money don't stay yours, true. But its way, way less expensive. I would like some sort of hybrid form these two ideally, like leagues with user driven fromats.
Only one of these products is a plausible way to get someone into Magic. The fact that on Arena someone can learn the game and try actual Magic without having to put money in cannot be overstated.
MTGO’s chat and ability to trade cards is a much superior way to get a friend into Magic. I have often lent entire decks to friends to get them to try a format, I could never have done anything similar in Arena.
Arena is great to play for free, but if I wanted a friend to try it out, it’d take either a lot of money or a lot of time before we could jam decent games with fully constructed decks.
@@alfyb4512 this is the first time i've ever seen someone say that MTGO is a better way to get someone into magic than Arena
@@Divock I would say that’s because most people don’t really know MTGO, or only contemplate as a competitive platform.
Sure, if you are alone and never intend to play Magic with friends, Arena is unbeatable, it’s free and built to fill up your time. But if you intend to play with friends (as in, “the gathering”), it’s utter crap: no chat, no multiplayer, no observer mode, etc.
How is the fact you have to pay on MTGO a barrier to introducing the game to anyone? You can build pretty much any of the Card Kingdom Battle Decks for less than a buck on MTGO, and start playing tuned - if casual - Magic right away. You can play them with 2, 3 or 4 players, others can come in and watch your games, you have a chat… it’s fun, it’s easy, it’s friendly, and it’s cheap. On Arena, getting a tuned list, even a janky one, either involves spending way more than one buck or grinding.
And how is “grind a bad deck until you get something a bit fun” a good introduction to Magic??
@@alfyb4512While I agree that MTGO can get you into a far wider selection of decks much quickly to tinker around with, Arena is a vastly superior learning tool for introducing someone completely new into magic the gathering as a whole, the tutorial is great and there is a good reason why you are given "bad decks" in your start of arena and through progression to play with, because these underpowered decks aren't designed to see competitive success, their designed to show the player how playstyles in different color combinations function while making entire decks around a mechanic like mutate or adventure to ease the player into the literal 90+ keywords that currently exist as of today, It's the same reason why MTG even prints "underpowered" cards in the first place, these cards hold more value than just competitive use, they grab the attention of a specific audience and allow that player to know what they would enjoy building, whether it be a fresh combo player moving from open the omenpaths into jeskas will, or a big-stats lover finding joy in opening a drakuseth after having been using loamdragger giant as their pay-off.
I would always recommend people to move out of arena and into MTGO (+ paying the upgrade cost) only after they've had at least 10-20+ hours on arena, this is especially true if MTG is the first ever TCG they get into and they don't already grasp a basic understanding of principles such as positive card trading, synergistic deck design, etc.
And that s good BUT arena is a trap. Tecnical issues aside (and there are plenty) it s economy sucks and it s f2p only if you started when it was lunched. Mtgo for life.
As a Brazilian living in a 5 to 1 real economy, the free to play aspect of arena covers 99% of my magic needs.
On Magic online I played just with penny cards, maybe just a few cards with price range 3-5 dollars (remember it’s 15 to 25 of our money)… that’s why is a relieve being able to exchange a bit of time in exchange of being able to play a standard cycle without spending lots of money in exchange of 4 bombs.
I understand the economy side as a US dollar spender
Try Cockatrice.
@@chunkylover48 cockatrice is pretty hard to get into. and it's absolutely nothing like arena. arena's interface makes things much easier than MTGO's. and MTGO's interface makes things much easier than cockatrice's or xmage's. obviously the latter two are entirely free and that's a big difference, but first you (as a new player) have to get over the enormous hurdle of the gameplay doing almost nothing to aid you.
personally, I hate arena with a passion, but I can totally understand somebody playing arena to avoid spending large amounts of money. aside from pauper, penny dreadful, etc. magic is an expensive game, no two ways around it. one nice thing about arena is it makes it pretty easy to build a modest collection using just time as a resource instead of money. and you actually get the feeling of progressing and building a real collection, even if it is all just virtual data trapped in your account.
cockatrice feels more like a magic simulator than a magic client. I mean, that's really what it is in the first place. it doesn't feel real. I think it's great for testing cards that you don't own yet. but I'd never recommend it to someone looking for a similar gameplay experience to arena or MTGO, it's in a whole other category. it is to magic as, like, garry's mod is to counterstrike.
same here, from Colombia. paper magic is crazy.
In Peru is kinda the same, paper Magic is expensive and the local stores run out of bundles and singles very fast due to low stocks that come here. There are people who play and can afford it but that doesn't represent the total amount of magic players, the majority plays in arena and you can often find someone who knows about the game and enjoys it but doesn't have a single paper card.
Yep. I'm fortunate to live in a country where card prices aren't absurd, but even so I can do almost everything I want to do with Magic on Arena for free: I can build all the decks I want, draft multiple times a week, play Standard and a resonable nonrotating format in Historic. I understand why some content creators think the Arena economy is predatory because if you have to craft every T1 deck right away without grinding it must be expensive. But I don't think that's most people's experience.
I feel like the teacher-like role arena plays is invaluable. It's a slow paced system for someone to learn the game and also learn how it works. Not to mention they can do this all for free!
At the end of the day i can do my daily's every day pretty fast and get packs for free, my collection in Arena is massive and i have never spent a dollar on it. For most people that is more then good enough.
problem is for people who dont really enjoy only having 1 or 2 "top tier" decks but would rather have 10+ "low tier decks. in paper non top tier cards are extremely cheap, but in arena every deck costs more or less the same, so you cant really brew or play suboptimal decks a lot, which imo is very unfair to those kind of players.
you also absolutely need at least one deck that has a decent winrate to ever complete the daily/weekly wins, so you are basically out of luck already as a f2p player who likes to brew and if you look at youtubers who like to brew, they have to spend hundreds every set to craft cards that cost pennies in paper.
playing multiple decks in arena is prohibitly expensive, while playing 1 or 2 is basically free. would be more fair if you could get either a lot of bad cards or a few powerful ones
Your collection is also worthless and you are tied to Arena if you want to keep playing for free. It happened to me playing hearthstone, very close to F2P, with the exception of buying some of the adventures. You have to play every day and that doesn’t give you much freedom.
My paper collection on the other hand, for every dollar I spend I seem to get 2 or more back. Owing to a few lucky trades and purchased collections I have some reserved list stuff too, which I consider all investment. If I want to leave magic, I will get money back from this collection.
I spend like...90 euro for 90 packs 3 times over the past 3 years (birthday gift to myself) and now i have all the wildcards and just cards i want and i can keep playing those cards in Historik.
@@dudemetslagroom8065 but can you cash out?
@@DrewskiTheLegend No but it does save me from needing to buy sleeves and needing storage and all that jazz...I don't think i can get caught up in ANOTHER real-life card game. (Although i would love to get my hands on some phyrexian or Eldritch Moon stuff...man i wish to get Eldritch moon horror angels...To bad midnight hunt kinda killed off any hope for that since they're all ded)
It’s unfortunate that Arena doesn’t have the good stuff that Magic Online does, and that Magic Online doesn’t have the good stuff that Arena does; And thus, I end up playing neither of them.
Wise
Paper magic still the only thing i play
@@MrMosiKing MTGO can be a good way to get more play testing in as well as visually see how some cards interact. And honestly I don't run into that many horrible people in chat. I've actually had alot of fun games and chats.
Same.
Factual
"fixing a bug is easier than implimenting an entire system"
... i mean you SHOULD be right.
chuckle.
iT's NoT a BuG iT's A fEaTuRe
@@dogdriver70 in college i was making a browser based card client and i somehow introduced a bug that turned cards transparent when you move a stack of them and i have no idea how so i just made it replace the cards with new ones. If i could have figured out what was happening that could totally have been a feature!
Spoken like a true non-developer. Haha
Fix the bug, another 2 turn up because of it...
Prof: “You can only have 75 decks on Arena”
HS Players: “Say what now!?!?”
They recently improved it to 27, which is not actually an improvement. Sad
Yeah that blew my mind tbh
You can’t even afford to have 75 decks in MTGO
@@kylerunkle4398 nor hearthstone
That's why you have as a file on Evernote for the decks you want to swap out of and in with import and export
I discovered arena during the pandemic, and being able to play magic again after 20 years, getting to open packs and even build a collection for free is just insane. You just have to play and win. I would have NEVER been able to afford this in paper or MTGO.
F2P is just too big of an advantage when you don't have the money.
On the other hand, if you can or like to spend $$$ on this game, i get why you would prefer MTGO, it's way more diverse and interactive. But damn that UI needs a redo.
Amen brother. I love that I can play competitive standard literally for free. Although if MTGO had Arena's interface, I'd probably switch. It's just too awful in 2021. It was crappy when it was released 20 years ago!
Exactly. I think the professor greatly underestimates this: people that can't really afford much.
"You just have to play and win"
That's avoiding the issue people bring here. We aren't arguing you can't play and win to build a collection, we're arguing that you need insane amounts of playtime in order to build something competitive because the economy of the game is beyond terrible.
For context, I drafted a lot during Ikoria, ended up with 80+ packs to open, over 15k gems, and even with that, I still didn't have enough wildcards and rares to build the decks I wanted to compete in Standard.
So, I lost time drafting thinking I would get into standard later, then by the time I was ready to cash out to build a standard deck, I still couldn't so a whole new set came out and I had to do this all over again.
This shouldn't happen. And anyone at WOTC trying to go full F2P on Arena for a month would see their own system is fundamentally flawed (or it works perfectly as intended to make you buy packs... but who am I to assume intent...)
Some people just want to play Magic casually, and MTGA is fine I guess for that purpose. I vastly prefer using TableTopSimulator that let's me play with every mtg card ever printed.
But if you want to play competitively, learn a format, and stay up to date for tournaments and whatnot (especially those that play magic in paper and just want a 1:1 way to train for events or FNM), MTGA is a terrible platform
TheProf nails it: MTGA and MTG are two different games at this point, and that sucks for MTG players
@@arenkai I’d actually say Arena is a lot worst to play casually. As you say, it’s great when you play a lot, get a collection and get to play competitively. But if you’re only playing casually, Arena is very restrictive: the card pool is tiny, and you won’t get to build the deck you like without putting in money.
That’s the thing about casual play on MTGO, you have to pay, but you can get away with $5 decks and less if just going for fun tabletop with friends. On Arena, you have get to invest time or money, but an expensive deck on paper will cost you the same as a cheap chaff deck. When you build a fun deck out of chaff rares and you realize it’ll “cost” you 20 rare wildcards, you realize the model does not work for casual.
but in practice, who doesn't spend money on the game? even the people who routinely claim to be "f2p players" spend money periodically in most cases. I imagine the only real f2p accounts are those of popular streamers, who aren't actually playing for free, they're just engaging in a special challenge, adjacent to their real account where they spend exorbitant assloads of money on what amounts to account statistics. wizards wouldn't spend money making the client for you to play if they thought you were going to literally play for free. like every other game developer, they know that people cannot resist the impulse to spend whatever they have when it's dangled in front of their face all day.
conversely, magic was a trading card game up until very recently. it's about obtaining something of value and owning, playing with, or trading it. I mean, the whole point of the game is to spend money on it. not only is it the point of the business model but it's the core conceit of the game's concept. you're playing with game pieces that have some innate market value. so up until arena came out, the ratio of recurrent players who spent money on the game was just about 100%.
it's not some strange minority of people who enjoy spending money on things that should rightly be free. it was all magic players, up until very recently when wizards figured out that you could essentially lure people into a crack house and trick them into thinking they get room and board for free, only for them to ask to buy some crack a few hours into their stay. the point of arena, like any game client, is not to be free, it's to make money. it cost money to make, it better make money to cover those costs. whales are obviously a big part of that formula, but only a tiny, negligible fraction of players truly spend nothing. so even if you only pay them $10 total they're still making money on your stay in the crack house.
I recently made the switch from Arena to MTGO and so far I haven't looked back. I genuinely feel that the weird bugs and clunky outdated UI are a small sacrifice in order to have access to a wider variety of formats, the ability to simply build the decks I want instead of grinding and praying for good packs, and an affordable economy that has a least a partial cash out option.
I'm reading back comments and I'm surprised seeing someone with my point of view, instead of arena fanboys (who most likely just heard about MODO and its "outdated" UI and never looked into it). People saying that MODO is expensive also surprise me, I guess if you wanted to build the best deck of your favorite format it does get expensive, but as a casual player who just wants to try out as many cards as possible Arena's economy is just the worst, with loan programs on magic online I can actually try a different deck basically every day, and just change whenever I'm fed up with it (or terminate the loan)
@@StahliCell I'm trying out MTGO right now to see how I like it, bought into the game for $5 and built a standard deck and a commander deck both highly budgeted and low power but fun to play. Don't really love the UI but being able to play with old cards is a lot of fun.
@@StahliCell I am a phone 📱 gamer arena is still better then that last online I played that I could download with out having to use a card to pay for it or that last game you had to pay after the tutorial was finished. Arena is not as bad as poeple say it is. My only issue with arena is the lag to search for spells or lands.
Arwna is trash if you want to build optimal decs, vecause its a gacha game. Its optimized to leech off of hyperinvested players, and it shouldnt be a vessel for high level play. It should be played free at a low level, to learn the basics of play, card interaction and deckbuilding. Its a casual game designed for a casual audence, online is a simulator designed to substitute for the paper game.
Besides bugs or the UI, the issue that MTGO has is solely because of Arena: a small playerbase. In my server, you can sit in standard on a weekday and wait for like an hour for a game. Modern is much more popular, but even then if it isn't peak playing hours, you have to wait.
Magic v magic: Two clients enter, both clients are sadly disappointing
one client has the edge of being extremely economically exploitative, so it's WOTC's favorite
I wonder how many wildcards I can get for the $800 it costs to purchase a mediocre modern deck on digital objects? Even though nobody would sell me the (not real) cards for less than $2000 because only suckers trade for fair value.
What's disappointing about mtgo
1) Visually, pretty much everything. It hasn't gotten a significant visual update since it was launched. 2) There's no reason digital product should cost the same as physical product. 3) Only works on Windows.
@@jaxxis2910 biggest misconception: "I dONT wANT to BUy cARDs TWicE" yet MOST cards on mtgo cost pennies on the dollor compared to RL
MTGO's technical and step-by-step progression through a turn (and its steps and phases) taught me how to play Magic.
I hadn’t played the game for almost a decade. Then I found Arena, then Tolarian Community College, and my love for the game was rekindled. I like Arena. It might have flaws, sure, but it’s been great for me.
Exactly same, if it wasn't for Arena I would have probably still been playing Hearthstone. Its interface and approachability is much more important than it's being given credit for here.
@myblindy Sounds like me. I played MTG table top since the 90s but the scene here dried up. Found hearthstone then Arena.
Same here, I was playing hearthstone because I couldn't afford to get back into paper magic.
Then I played arena for a few days, found some promo codes online, and I had a solid competitive deck that would've cost me over 100 dollars anywhere else.
Arena is extremely budget friendly unless you need to have everything
As primarily a limited player, Arena has been a game changer for me. With a decent winrate I am able to stretch my gems/gold really far. I am very thankful for that aspect of the client. I feel for my constricted brethren who do not have a dusting system, which I still think is a borderline criminal enterprise on the hands of WOTC :(
Same, as a limited player and very casual constructed player, Arena works well for me. Admittedly, i did buy the one time beginner pack a while back and thats the only money I have spent. The cost of one paper booster pack basically put me on a free roll from the start, so I cant complain.
Yes! Additionally, if you try to go infinite in limited on MTGO, you have to sell the cards you open. In Arena, you can use them to play Standard at no extra cost. I like the *idea* of MTGO, but I probably won't start it up again until they ban Chatterstorm in Pauper.
Cheap draft is probably the highlight of MTGA for me too. I just wished more limited formats were available: MH2 and other master sets, while more expensive, tend to provide a much more interesting drafting environment.
Magic Arena is insanely more investment friendly than Magic Online. 90 boosters cost less than 100 dollars worth of gems while in Magic Online you only get 36 boosters for 100 dollars, just like with physical cards.
But you do not even much have to buy those, as you get so much gold and so many gems for free. Per month just doing quests and winning those weekly games, you get at least 20000 gold which becomes 20 free booster packs and from the mastery stuff you get free booster packs on top of that, free gems and free tickets.
I have mostly played Magic Arena without investing money in it, and recently I guess I put 300 dollars into it. Wildcards can be used to craft ANY card of the rank or below and wild cards are pretty cheap compared to most things in Magic Online.
if you play casually then mtg arena is free, the moment you want to play constructed is starts to be a well without a bottom in terms of money...
I agree that, UI aside, MODO is better than Arena except for one thing: Arena is free. When I played MODO I had to keep spending money while in Arena I can just play and my collection grows just from playing.
Arena is free until the sets come out so quickly that it is impossible to maintain a collection without putting down money or grinding for hours. And even after grinding the rewards become so piddly that you are effectively getting nothing for your time.
I only play historic on arena it is much easier to keep up then.
Just win lmao
You also have rental programs, and can cash out. If you want to play regularly or even slightly competitively (not pro just more than a no stake random bo1.) The cost is cheaper for MODO.
Yeah I haven't spent a cent on Arena. It's really easy to get enough gold to keep up with standard. Historic is a bit harder, just the fact that a lot of your wild cards will be needed to get a good land base.
Someone at Hipsters of the Coast pointed out that Arena has too few formats, but way too many different ways to play those few formats
#9 especially annoys me. I came in from some of the earlier digital games where there was stuff like Planechase and Two-Headed Giant, which seems quite notably absent. It was stuff I always hoped they would eventually add if nothing else, but that seems unlikely.
3 days later: WotC announces they’re discontinuing Magic Online
I would argue that Modo is the old printer on the shelf wating to be unplugged for a couple years now...
@@heliobarbosa3525 More like arena is the new windows update that needs to be uninstalled
@@heliobarbosa3525 is that based off any facts or just your opinion?
@@sjdhrjrjejdhdhsh Gah! you've triggered the IT nerd in me. "la la la la"
I honestly think it would kill the game since it's making them more money than arena and player like Magic Online better
Arena is WotC's way of adapting to the gatcha game era, just make a whole new game with a monetary model that all the modern F2P games have. It's like continuously putting quarters in a machine to get what you want and that's how it works. Versus MTGO where it's just like a digital card shop. Even the best trader bot in the game is owned by an LGS, so they cut out the middle man too.
They even manipulate the drop rates like a gatcha game.
This 'gatcha' game still allows u to fully play the game free with 0 costs.
I've played Arena since closed beta and I am able to afford any tier 1 historic decks without paying a cent.
@@anonymousvagrant And all it took you to get there was 3 years of your time.
@@anonymousvagrant drop some dimes and you can have several historic decks in a snap versus time, arts, avatars, pets, and more. Historic Horizons, get ready for jumpstart prices and emptying the coin and gem wallets.
@@obsidianmoon13 Isn't the idea of magic like, playing it? I am not wasting my time if I'm playing something I like, and for free too.
I like arena for standardizing the price of cards with equal rarity. Makes each deck cost about the same when you just want copies of top tier decks to play with.
Being able to craft so many competitive decks is a great learning tool.
Pretty unfortunate that modern/legacy are left out, but still fun.
You can't craft "so many" competitive decks unless you give them a bunch of money tho
Imagine if Shandalar had Arena's graphics and interface :o
This
Make this happen WotC
I think Arena has two major advantages over Online that you didn't mention. The first is that Arena is free to play. This makes it really accessible to new players, and although it takes some time to build a competitive deck, being able to run around in Bronze and Silver tiers with starter decks and whatever half-decent jank you have while you assemble a meta deck is something I feel like you can't really do on Online, at least not without spending money. The second advantage is somewhat related, but it's the tutorial and the starter decks. The fact that Arena teaches you the basics, then slowly hands you decks that teach you various new and relevant mechanics is really helpful for just learning the game. And again, you can durdle around in low ladder with these decks as you get used to the game and the cards before you fully enter the competitive nature of the format.
Thus, I feel like a natural progression for someone new to Magic would be to start in Arena where they can learn the game, get used to the mechanics and all that, and start playing competitive decks. Then once they get tired of the lack of optimization in Arena, love the game enough to not care much about the graphics, and are willing to spend money on the game, they can switch to Online where you can simply play more varied Magic.
Free to play games are almost always grinding trash. The graphics of Arena distract and detract from the game and are not needed. We don’t need hand holding, the game is not overly challenging to learn.
The economy knife does cut both ways though. I can use my mythic wilds to make Craterhoof Behemoths and Allosaurus Shepherds just as easily as I can make something as bad as Archangels light. The frustrating thing is when you could drop ten bucks to buy a couple rare lands to finish your deck, but you instead have to grind for a week for wilds
Then you just fix your mana with other stuff, is no good to be always depending on money to play mtg.
You can buy 4 mythic rare wildcards for 25 usd I believe. Probably more expensive than the avrage, but signifocantly less expensive than the top end of real cards.
So glad I stayed to the credits. Please, PLEASE add more outtakes to the end of your videos! Or even a bloopers reel video would be amazing!
I'm actually kind of excited to see the kinds of Shandalar cards they'll release only on Arena that have random or permanent effects. I use MTGO for everything I do that's not paper Magic, but youtube content produced on Arena is just as good a lot of the time. And youtube is also how I enjoy Hearthstone; third person gaming. I don't need to ever touch the game.
That transition was smoother than Karn's cranium
I guess my remaining question is why hasn't Wotc decided to just consolidate. It strikes me as weird that they'd have 2 products out that may be in direct competition with one another.
This is the question, why not just work with mtgo? Why create arena at all?
@@patrickmcathey7081 mostly because the visual redo is kind of immpossible, you *can't* upgrade the mtgo engine to look like arena, it's strictly immpossible... the problem is that it's also tough as nails to recreate everything in mtgo up to the standard of arena. they give almost all mythics special animations, along with several rares and notable staple commons and uncommons like lightning strike, this becomes absurd stretched out ad-infinitum into magics past. I personally think arena was a good move, and understand why somethings had to be cut to make way for a smoother online way to play standard but at the same time theres a lot of unacceptable cuts made. A digital card game should always have a dusting mechanic, no multiplayer is absurd, the game would be infinitely improved with commander avaliabilty, two-headed giant, kitchen table free for all, etc. and frankly just the fact that you can't buy singles in anyway, your collection if you pay for it is entirely valueless and it takes such an absurd time sink to make a deck
Nothing can beat the fact that I put £5 into Arena right at the start for the starter deal and I’ve done at least 4 sealed events of every set since Dominaria onwards, plus around 100 drafts total. No more money spent. I did use to grind my quests every day but I stopped that a long time ago and still have plenty of gold and gems left.
I will say this about Magic Online. The chat system has only been a delight for me in all the years I have played. I fairness I have only played pauper leagues and a tiny amount of modern, but people have friendly and I have quite enjoyed the chat - if for no other reason then because people could explain all the new bugs I as I was experiencing them:)
(Remember when clicking "undo" or Ctrl+Z after sacrifing a permanent would start the entire match over? that was weird)
It's so much better to have a discussion with somebody. I can put up with some jerk once in a while if it means having a real conversation.
I've been playing mtgo for about the last year, almost exclusively modern with the occasional draft/sealed, and I've been pleasantly surprised at how little toxicity there is. I've encountered a total of 2 people who were toxic at all, and even then it wasn't nearly as bad as I've encountered on other games. For the most part, everyone I face on online is either silent or super wholesome
Ditto. Just not getting hate-roped is a huge step up, but I've had some genuinely awesome conversations, which I wasn't expecting.
I've had some really bad experiences with the MTGO chat--people "following" me after a match to heckle me because I got a lucky topdeck, etc.
Still, I agree: it's worth the risk to have the chat feature available.
@@pauldyson8098 have you tried blocking annoying people?
Honestly after the first season of play after Arena became publicly available, it was pretty clear to me that they would never approach the full experience of magic. Left my account then and I have never regretted that decision.
I just got into magic a few months ago and hopped in to arena which was a great way to learn but this has got me headed to my computer to start up magic online and start that way.
I am learning the game on arena and thinking about online. Does the online interface help guide you through the various steps involved? I don’t want to slow down play because I make a mistake.
I Agree with everything, UI aside, the only good thing about arena is that you can play the game without investing any money at all, myself for example had tons of decks and wildcards and I didn't waste 1 cent I just drafted and did really well. But then I stopped playing because I got tired of only 2 game modes lol😂
How do you get to draft without paying?
@@Wistbacka you can draft paying gold
@@Wistbacka Get in daily wins and farm up gold. When you get to 10k, draft and get gems+cards. Rinse and repeat, profit. You must be good at drafting for this to work of course.
@@Wistbacka you get a small amount of gold each day from doing missions, like 500 gold for casting 30 green spells or something. As far as I could remember I was able to do a draft pretty much every second day. Not a great advertisement I know, the system is begging the user to pay money to supplement "fun"
@@DankCannon thanks everybody for the replies. Just trying to get better insight to this. I have so far frowned quite a lot at any official online mtg platform. I have spent quite a lot on paper magic, so not about to spend again online. Especially since I only play commander now.
I have a friend I tried to get to use spelltable instead as he spends A LOT of money on paper magic. But he thinks spelltable is too complicated and rather pays to play online, and I feel dumbstruck by his choice...
This is your best thumbnail yet, I'd love for it to catch on as an MTG meme :'D
I feel like having both really works for the full magic experience. Arena is easy to play and gives a good dopamine hit with ranked ladders and the such, and MTGO helps you expand into other formats and leagues when we want more!
Something I think would help Arena's Deck building, would be able to try(maybe not online) decks that you don't have all the cards for yet, to see if it's worth it to purchase those missing cards or not.
that exists in Arena, although not as a permanent thing. But every now and then, they have events where you can play with any cards, no matter if you own them or not. They are called All Access events, here is a screenshot: i0.wp.com/mtgazone.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Midweek-Magic-Standard-All-Acsess.jpg
Also, there's more than 10
I strongly agree with all of this, and it's the reason I still play MTGO usually at least weekly if not more, but haven't touched Arena in almost a year
Is there any way to make your own cube on mtgo and draft with friends?
I’m done dude, that sponsor transition was the smoothest thing I’ve ever seen 😂
My only gripe with MODO is the bugs. If they sorted the bugs out then it would be perfect. Magic doesn't need a a flashy interface. MODO looks as good as most LGS table tops.
At a recent MPL split, 11 MDFC were banned (one of which was played in the best deck in the format) because of a bug that counted devotion when the cards flipped into lands. MTGO has plenty of bugs, but this disrupted the professional circuit with high stakes after weeks of testing
I agree wholeheartedly with #3 and have said this many times to others around me. While you can have people who cause grief in chat on MTGO, I want to stress that you can also have really positive connections with strangers (let alone your friends), and this has often made my time on MTGO far superior to my time on Arena. As you said, Arena offers other ways to antagonize your opponents through emote spamming, or even annoying things such as timing out. And honestly the lack of a chat option often gives me this disconnect when playing the game against other people, and my enjoyment drops significantly because of it. It leads to faster burn out when you're grinding game after game without talking to anyone, and every other person is timing out or spamming emotes imo. And plus, losing is a lot more fun when you're having a pleasant conversation with the other person!
So i play arena and i just started. as of now i have 12-13 starter style decks ive acquired for free just to start and i opened over 40 free booster packs from various sets just for downloading. I habe next to nothing extra to spend on magic cards right now, losing your job will do that to you, is there a system in place similar to get someone started?
I keep hearing you can make your own MTGO format, but I can't find how to do that or play other peoples custome formats. Can someone please help me. I actually tried Google and it didn't give the answer
I turned off emotes in Arena as soon as someone started spamming because I was winning against their mill deck. I think its time to dust off Magic Online.
honestly, I'll never play either of these. paper magic or no magic at all.
see ya in 10 years when all cards launch 2 weeks early online and paper no longer gets any prize support.
@@ymmijx6061 I mean we would still have cards as a collector's thing probably
LUL
Don’t know anyone in my area who plays mtg. What’s the advantage of playing irl?
@@dailyrice5092 social interaction, the ability to learn from others how things work, haptic feedback, the smell of new cards.
I really want to start using MTGO, especially to practice Pauper, but I don't now where to start. Can somebody recommend any good sources of information, on how to handle the Interface MTGO?
I don't want to pay money for Drafts or event entry and then loose because i can't tap my lands or properly declare targets.
Just being able to do a solitare game of Commander and try out a deck idea on MTGO is wonderful.
I think the thing I like about mtg arena is I can play completely for free. Coins can be earned to enter in events, cards and decks can be won and you can usually get 3 free packs of any new set that drops on arena. For players that want to play magic but dont want to spend a bunch of money its great.
Why are you people so opposed to paying for games!? This free to play crap is ruining gaming and people like you are the ones that push it. Games like arena have the same time suck and addiction quality that a slot machine has.
If I could play MTGO for practically nothing, like I can on arena, I'd prefer that. Sadly, start up online would be significant or cost a monthly fee for rentsl.
I started an account for $5 and built and bought 3 pauper decks for $15 total. $20 to play on MTGO
@@stevenlawrence192 so I could certainly play somethingon MTGO for only a small investment, but my aim would be EDH mainly or other more expensive formats
@@WoundedDuckify You can build great edh decks cheaply too, certain cards are way cheaper on mtgo than in paper. Like pennies
What if I told you that you don't really need a "monthly fee" for a loan program, because you can get FREE loan programs?
@@StahliCell well that is intriguing
Does mtgo have a way to buy physical cards and then you get the equivalent matching cards online? That's probably my favorite aspect of mtga, although admittedly it's very very limited.
Hi, is there anyway I can buy cards and then rent them out to other players?
Thanks
Hey Professor, you forgot to mention that Legacy & Vintage are actually affordable on MTGO
Arena is a videogame about Magic. I don't expect to cash out of a videogame, recover what I paid for digital DLCs or trade skins or equipment with other players (if there's the option, great, but it's nothing I'd take for granted).
Yep, the skins and rewards are part of what can make it good to some
O that makes sense. I played a lot of videogames about yugioh they feel the same way.
tix rental programs is a great answer to the problem of mtgo singles costing like 100 tix each. It's a great way to experiment with a lot of different brews and builds for relatively cheap. I think being able to participate in a modern league without needing to drop the cash for a modern deck is a great thing
nice vid, when are you opening the Ravnica box behind you?
I agree with the point made by the end of #2 - Arena actively punishes players for not grinding every day and every event, yet with very little reward. As a free-to-play player the major driving force behind Arena is mostly FOMO. But when the metagame is revolved around winning and there is very little room for casual play. You're almost forced into crafting a netdeck so you know you have a chance to compete on the ladder - you cannot test out any deck ideas without commiting wildcards. All you get is a stale meta with repeating matchups over and over again. Then with how the economy works having a Tier 2 deck means less rewards and less rewards means less success in getting more rewards. So you have to compensate by spending more time, time you're not having FUN, because you're up against the same decks that are often more powerful compared to your's. This is amplified with the powercreep of recent years - it leaves very little room for error as there are no ballancing tools to stabilise you in case you fall behind during the short time that the hyperefficient threats can deal with you.
I stopped playing about a month into Strixhaven and I've uninstall the client not seeing myself coming back until there is a rework of the inner mechanisms of Arena.
Play a brawl deck with a less popular commander. You will play real magic against other less popular decks. Just instant scoop against the heavy control decks. Most fun playing on arena besides draft.
@@sirrzoidberg3771 I did that - I did every possible side event that was availiable at any given moment just so I wouldn't have to play standard queue (at least after Strixhaven was released before I quit). The game still forces you to play something you don't want to to make progress on your daily quests. An argument could be made that I don't have to do that. But you need to somehow get to the wildcards to built the deck you want to play, or to have some for future upgrades or possibly something else that sparks your interest to build around. So you're back at the beggining. Where too much is happening and you just don't have enough resources (time, wildcards, gold for entry fees) to really enjoy the game at a decent level. Certainly not as F2P. Most likely not even as some free time hobby player with a 50 bucks/month budget.
Another point to your argument "scoop against opponents you don't want to be playing against". First of all 2021 meta was all of it - maybe like 1 out of 15 games was something interesting and second: it comes back to what Prof said in the video - the game lacks some basic functional socializing system. When playing commander at an LGS you get to quite easily rule 0 a playgroup you're comfortable with. You can't influence the meta on arena - even in more casual formats (for example unranked queue has the exact same Tier 1 decks as ranked). Having to curate my play expirience through some external source like a discord server with people wanting the same, less cutthroat gameplay seems counterproductive. As if I or someone running the discord are doing Wizards job for them.
@@DarthTUK I threw 50 bucks at a couple of expansions, and I still couldn't build the decks I wanted, and I still found myself short on wildcards. Everything you said was on point, and were the reasons I too left after playing around with arena for about 4 to 6 months.
@@DarthTUK what’s funny is I remember complaining on wizards page about how they only match you up with certain decks depending on what you play and they were like there’s no proof of that lol yeah i feel you on that. I don’t really have an issue with brawl you can tell by the commander which ones are straight net decks and what not. You only need one copy of a card.
Best advice i can give is to get good at premiere drafts and youll find yourself playing multiple drafts before running out of gems to enter. If you see a rare take it if the other cards won’t improve your draft deck much.
Ok! Hold up! "Fixing a bug is easier than implementing a new future." No, you cannot say that about programming prof. You really can't!
Couldn't agree more. I intend to try arena sometime soon, but I wish I was able to more casually meet fun people to play MTGO Commander with.
Can they find a way to redeem our card collection on Arena to Online?
Yeah, on Arena I seldomly have the feeling of playing against other persons. I mean, I know it's other players, but during game their names are just as meaningless and forgettable to me as anything. In that sense the "gathering" aspect is totally lost in the anonymity of MTGA game play. Sorry, but to me it doesn't matter who I play against. It's just a name I want to win against, not a feeling, living individual. Perhaps indeed chat would change that. I doubt it would, though.
I have to say. Id like a more robust chat but also adding it in with strangers would 90% of the time make the game worsr and more toxic instead of better. I play magic for fun. Not to get yelled at by internet strangers.
@@jojodelacroix I think a great system would be if you were able to click on someone's name and you would have the option to start a chat. The other player would see the invite to chat and accept or deny. And hey if it goes south, mute again.
@@jojodelacroix You can easily make it voluntary
I would love a little chat like "game is lagging on my side while searching for spells and lands. One moment please while I wait for game to finish loading the search picking card and unloading search."
@@goodandevil1583 Resource allocation with no profit; I guess it could make sense as a paid add-on system; it definitely needs to be optional. I'd have emotes on, chat off, friend requests off.
sending someone to arena to learn the game for free and just play the 20 games with other new players is a great advantage. Hopefully they don't get sucked into the economy afterwards, though!
I can't figure out how to Add Commanders to magic online in a deck... Do I have to buy cards ? I don't have any legendary cards
For me on arena I pay 65$ usd for a pass bundle and a pack bundle, on every standard set, per year are 260 bucks. I got almost complete 4x sets at the end of the year, by playing daily. That is affordable for me. Is online any cheaper?
At the end of the day, I have spent zero dollars on Magic Arena and I get to draft as much as I want and I can make whatever decks I want. It doesn't matter what percentage of my "investment" I can cash out because it didn't cost me any money to begin with. The economy is actually the best thing about Arena over Magic Online, in my view.
I wish I still had my PC for MTGO, interface is an after thought for me. In my opinion, there's no contest between the two. One is a money machine for WOTC, the other is a magic machine for players? Sure. Let's go with that.
Thank you for this video! I found it very insightful. So much so, that I booted up MTGO and even paid for the account upgrade. Only to find that even as a player for years of casual magic, the interface and the "new player" features are damn near IMPENETRABLE.
Heads up since you paid for the account upgrade: you can get free loan programs to try out whatever you want!
I only have time to play when I’m out of the house so I really appreciate arena. I only play on my iPad and it literally only takes 15 seconds to start playing a match usually. I do not want to be sitting at a computer every time I want to try a deck idea out
I've Never tried MTGO (byt maybe I should?) since there is a cost associated to it. Arena on the other hand can be played for free. Yes, there would be some grinding and you'd need some time, but it is possible.
You should try. You can buy booster packs for some sets for 30 cents.
How much is your time worth? Calculate how much money you'd spend vs grinding, maybe it's more worth it to just pay
@@Suavek69 good point. I'll probably give it a shot.
The chat for me is the most important part of magic online. Bringing the gathering to an online game just puts a smile on my face.
Arena chat sucks
Mid game you can only talk to friends and the iterface
Does not allow chat open on same screen at least in mobile playforms
Mean while "(hello),...(your turn),... (nice),...(thinking),...(thanks),...(good game).
Thanks for this video. I haven’t been an active player for almost 20 years, but now that I want to get back into it (and it doesn’t look like Octagon ever took off as an online option) I’ll try the cheaper and faster way to catch up(MTGO)
Besides the social part woth friends, I like playing in paper because I know I'll get to recoup at least part, if not a majority, of my investment at some point. I like holding them and flipping through my binders. Remembering which card was pulled from which draft night or booster box.
I've spent so much money to play standard on MTGO with so little return. You mentioned you can get even 60% of your value back, but honestly, I've never hit that amount. I was usually lucky to get 40 or 30% once rotation comes around.
Compared to playing standard on Arena, I've payed literally nothing, therefore getting 100% of my value back! Yes, when you create your account, you start with the basics. To that I equate it to starting a physical collection as a kid, with limited money. Eventually I built up enough of a collection, and get enough Gems to keep playing standard as new sets progress, all without paying any money.
This is the reason I stopped doing standard on MTGO or on paper. Its not perfect, but it is free. And that means something
Oh, standard is EASILY better on Arena than MTGO by a long mile. I wanted every format on the client because then it'd be better at a fundamental level over MTGO but Wotc HATES money.
I'm just surprised you genuinely prefer standard over other formats, but I guess "to each their own". I couldn't see myself playing standard even if I had every card legal in the format at any given time!
I remember back at the start of arena-beta when I was a hopeful young man, assured that the client would be updated and have all it's problems fixed. Ah well... foolish to put trust in Wotc to not be greedy
it's kinda like pokemon go. you ASSUME they'd add missing features over time but... no
oofffff this applies to paper magic so much
What is your muse for content? It's always top notch on the videos and thankyou for looking out for player and warning us about where not to waste our money.
The whole missing spectate/replay feature is the biggest gripe I have with arena
1. I've been saying for a while MTGO is my preference, and you hit many of the nails on the head.
2. However, you implied that set redemption could become a thing for Arena. The only way that could possibly happen is if they charge an insane surcharge for sets because of the F2P model. At least $200 a set, or they risk annihilating the secondary market.
3. That said, I do wish they would charge full price and make sets like Modern Horizons II and Commander Legends redeemable for even a short amount of time.
Magic Arena is insanely more investment friendly than Magic Online. 90 boosters cost less than 100 dollars worth of gems while in Magic Online you only get 36 boosters for 100 dollars, just like with physical cards.
But you do not even much have to buy those, as you get so much gold and so many gems for free. Per month just doing quests and winning those weekly games, you get at least 20000 gold which becomes 20 free booster packs and from the mastery stuff you get free booster packs on top of that, free gems and free tickets.
I have mostly played Magic Arena without investing money in it, and recently I guess I put 300 dollars into it. Wildcards can be used to craft ANY card of the rank or below and wild cards are pretty cheap compared to most things in Magic Online.
Allowing for redemption seems pretty impossible given how cheaply you can complete a set compared to Magic Online and physical Magic cards.
I've been playing Arena since its inception without any prior experience with Magic Online, and I was very happy with it...until Modern Horizons 2 came out and got me excited for the Modern format and I realized the only way for me to play and draft it was by downloading Magic Online. It bums me out that I have to invest time and money into an older game in order to keep up with all of the latest cards in MtG, and now that I've been messing around with Magic Online, it's clear to me that it has way more advantages over Arena. It's really disheartening to realize that not only does Arena lacks so much, but WotC doesn't seem to have many plans to bring it up to Magic Online's level.
did you find the user interface as jarring as everyone mentions? I did one draft and found that I was roping my opponent by accident because I didn't click end phase or whatever.
@@DankCannon Without a doubt, the interface is the biggest learning curve so far when just getting started (next to getting used to how the economy trading/buying works) but I took the time to watch a couple tutorials beforehand and I have the added benefit of playing a few games on Cockatrice during the pandemic with friends, whose interface also seems VERY outdated and not totally unlike Magic Online. It just takes time, patience, and the willingness to ask Google for guidance along the way
@@Cham_Clowder it is very much a relic of its time, that time being 2002. But I still tell every new player I meet that it's the best way to learn the game.
I love chatting on mtgo. Just about everyone I've met is so nice.
I'm kinda starting out again after I played a little bit in my Uni time. I got recommendation to play Arena by my local card dealer. But I do get the feeling that people just play the same decks over and over...and I really miss talking to my playmates. Also it feels like the shuffle of the decks isn't very good?
I think one of the topics that most stands out to me that wasn't covered is Arena's damaging push towards the "Best of 1" style of gameplay. This, along with the ranked ladder system on Arena in general, does far more harm to the integrity of our beloved game than we acknowledge.
Sure, you can set up matches on MTGO that play out as Bo1. After all certain formats such as Commander are much more inclined towards that sort of system. But the fact still remains that when talking about applicable, competitive matches such as with Leagues, Events, etc., Online provides a system that almost perfectly mirrors the structure of sanctioned competitive events for Magic: the Gatheting.
I could probably ramble on for far too long with this, diving into every aspect of this subject, but sufficed to say, the Best of 1 gameplay system does not encourage good, thoughtful deckbuilding, or in fact even good, constructive meta developments and Arena's strong push towards such a system irrevocably warps the mindset of it's players in such a way that loses sight of the core philosophies of Magic: the Gathering as a whole.
MTGO might not be perfect, it might not be flashy, but it stands as the unsung champion of what the best that Magic has to offer can look like.
I play best of three I win a game or two I found single game more boring.
I will never forget my first time trying Magic Online. I wanted a way to play Commander games and with no LGS near me at the time MtGO seemed ideal. After building a budget Saffi deck built around bees and fight mechanics with one infinite loop I had my loop on the board going through the motions and was greeted with the line from another player that killed the whole game for me.
"He's going to time out and lose. This isn't paper Magic."
Instantly lost all interest and stopped playing the game.
Years later and now Spelltable is a thing so I prefer to play paper on there but I've never gone back to MtGO even once. It's just not the same game.
Inspired by this video, I decided to log into my mtgo account for the first time in 4+ years, instead of drafting on arena. Well, I went to trade rares for tix to enter a draft and I wasn't allowed to because my account is "restricted". So, that was a bummer. Have a ticket in to support. Hopefully resolves itself soon.
The ability to play on my phone was a huge reason why I started Arena in the first place. And the ability to redeem codes for pack and what not is another reason.
they could probably make a massive patch for a modern interface for mtgo
They probably could _not_ do that. They could do something with...whatever engine it's built in, but that can only go so far. Arena is built in a completely different and much, _much_ more modern engine. It's like looking at the engines built for Nes games and wondering why you can't make a Switch game out of it. Whatever they used for Online is hilariously outdated. The engine they use for Arena (Unity if I remember correctly) is modern and pretty legit. They just need to actually, you know, use it properly.
I was so excited when Arena first came about but the predatory monetization really drove me away and I haven't been back since it first came out on PC.
I agree with a lot of this as an arena player. I played paper magic growing up and the ease of being able to log into my phone and play a quick game is what drew me back. I feel like if the online system could be implemented into a mobile form it would dominate arena entirely and make the game more enjoyable and true to its roots.
Whatever happened to all the Magic online casual game areas? I just got back on after being gone a few years and it looks way different.
I wonder if motivated fans could design a nice interface, that interacts with MTGO on top of MTGO. I doubt Wizards will do that, since MTGA makes a lot of profit and if the only USP (The UI) of Arena was gone everyone would switch to MTGO
I agree with all the points you've made. I just never got into MTGO because of the monthly subscription fee. I ultimately prefer paper play and that's where I choose to spend my money. As for magic arena, I've spent $0.00 on it and I can play it on my phone while still feeling like I'm playing magic.
No. 9 is honestly the only one I really care about. As someone who started the game in college with a friend's second-hand golgari commander deck, the chaos of a 4-player game is something I've sorely missed since I left the US and can only play online.
Hey Prof!, please make an MTGO 101 video for all us players jumping the arena ship after the Alchemy announcement.
Also a video about penny dreadful would be wonderful!
I like the economy of arena for what it is. I have been able to draft, play ranked games, and enjoy many matches without needing to invest heavily. I don't feel pressured to spend $$$ and I can still make the decks I want to via drafting and saving my resources. I have played magic for many years, but I would never consider myself anything more than a casual player. For those of us who don't want to spend much money but want to be able to play a few games every day, I like the way arena is set up.
Arena's set up is awesome for drafters! I have 95% of all the rares in every set since war of the spark and more wildcards then i could ever want to spend.
Thank you professor for this video. Exactly how I felt since I started playing mtgO a year ago, I'm way more satisfied than with Arena.
I've been playing magic for the last eight years and I've probably all together put an hour into arena but it doesn't feel quite right to me but I just recently decided to give MTGO a try and Holy crap I really love it. I can buy singles and then set up my commander decks how I want and then go, it's awesome. It makes for not having a game night with the boys as doable if I miss a night. I fricken love it.
And correct me if im wrong here. So if i understand you correctly,.. in magic online if you compleet an set of cards. I can redeam them for real cards?
Arena has no economy: it has a casino
I would be STOKED if MTGO had the graphics of Arena...Love arena for it's fast play and more engaging. MTGO is like...going back in time when Age of Empires was "cutting edge"
This.
I compare MTGO interface with Windows 3.11.
Unreal that they never updated it from the ancient relic it still is.
New players are never going to be drawn to play Magic on MTGOs garbage interface .
Why is Arena popular? Cause it looks appealing, is easy to use for new players, looks more like something from 2020+ rather than something from 1983+ and it lets players unlock cards at low cost by playing drafts, unlocking mastery level etc.
I’m sure MTGO is great for the purists who wants a “proper” Magic but it is way too long in the tooth for being even remotely something that new players would be interested in.
It has nicer and more features than Arena but with the clunk UI most will just throw it aside after the first 15 minutes of swearing at the screen wondering “how the F do I do this”?
@@Vograx maybe even Windows ME when they were pushing the Microsoft Media center! 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆
where can I even download magic the gathering online?? Honest question, please help me
You technically can exceed the 75 deck limit on arena but only if you allready have the full 75 decks in your account, when standard rotation happens your account will be injected with 15 or so new new player experience decks and in my case it didn't care that i already had 75 decks still gave me the NPE decks my deck folder now showing 90/75 at the top of the screen, you can then go into the edit the NPE decks how ever you want, i think it's a bug/exploit but hey it works