Mother Gothel is the best take on a "modern" villain. Still horrible in almost everything she does, relatable and realistic to anyone raised by narcissist but you still kind of have a moment of understanding why Rapunzel would care about her. Where is another one of these villains?
Doctor Facilier isn't sympathetic, but he's understandable. A man who wants power in pre-depression New Orleans and will stop at nothing to get it? Classic villain. The only improvement they could have made on him was show *why* he wanted the power. Make him one of the veterans that returned home from WW1 when Tiana's father didn't, have him be angry and never want to be powerless again, but also not wanting to fight another war, remaining in the shadows, becoming the Shadow Man
As mentioned in another comment, the only villain I was impressed with was Ernesto from Coco. He was later introduced, but his persona was built up by Miguel’s perception, despite the clues being there like Hector’s underhandedly stated he knew Ernesto at one point. But when we see Hector finally approaching Ernesto, and Miguel filling in the blanks of Hector’s death and the motives Ernesto had to kill him was great villain writing. Ernesto wasn’t cliche enough to have his wickedness to pop out, as he had the charisma that showed himself to be the life of the party that initially made others think of him as friendly. It’s not until the main characters are able to figure out Ernesto’s actions that the audience sees in in a different light as cruel and cold to do this to a supposed friend. Otherwise since Frozen, it just seems like Disney writing their villains have gotten sloppy. They’re tried to use cookie cutter scenarios but it doesn’t work for every story. It’s ironic Coco was actually a Pixar film, when really the studio never was into musicals or villain antagonists, with the exception of Up. In the last decade it seems like Disney doesn’t want to approach evil, which I think is what is holding them back. The tales and fables that attracted Walt’s interested was about characters facing evil, finding the strength to have the courage to fight said evil. The most memorable films were about strong characters, both protagonists and the antagonist counterparts, that can be reflective of the situations society faces no matter what period in time. There’s a reason why these tales are a classic and timeless.
I know, right! I was too young when I first saw it to understand, but she is especially disturbing because of how subtly manipulative she is, it really hits close to home, even for those who don't have friends or family members like that.
@@Crazyashley42 That's kind of a slippery slope though. Sometimes, if you reveal too much about the villain, the magic starts to wear off a little and they just don't have the same gravitas. Best to just keep the mystery...mystery is very underrated these days.
Watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame like 2 days ago, on the opening sequence of Bells of Notre Dame, Frollo is shown to us as a villain with no redeemable qualities, showing that if it had not been for the priest interrupting him and threatening him with divine punishment, he would have thrown baby Quasimodo under the well. I literally teared up because of the eeriness and perfection of it, and to me, he is the perfect Disney Villain, no redeemable qualities whatsoever. Disney and Western animation in general will never be take risks like that anymore and that is honestly heartbreaking.
Fun fact: Disney’s version of Frollo is more evil than he was in the novel. In the book, Frollo took Quasimodo in at a young age out of the goodness of his heart, and isn’t as cruel to him as he is in the Disney film. Just goes to show how Disney’s approach towards villain characters has shifted.
Also hiring a Shakespearean actor to execute the vocals in speaking and singing shows the respect they didn’t pick an actor for his brand they picked him because Tony Jay knows how to play complex characters.
I think we needed a secondary villain that is the opposite point of view of the king. While the king wants all wishes to be dictated and delivered by only him, this other villain could be on the side of unrestricted wishes, believing that everyone should follow their desires no matter how selfish and harmful those wishes can be. And then have our protagonist trying to find the middle ground of two clashing ideals.
I said before, but it could have been the forbidden magic book ITSELF. That book could have been elevated into a full villainous character and potentially could have made the movie much better
@@liberalistbat6352 I think disney should have made her a twist villain...wait no a twist hero that turns to a villain instead, mostly from falling into a stubborn rage of a naive brat. Of that I didn't get my grandfather wish granted and now I want revenge to rebel against the king. Because she was being bratty about it, when it seems her grandfather didn't seem concerned of his wish not being granted after 100 years. Besides he understands that the king has been busy trying to make sure to make the right choices for the kingdom. Also lets not forget that asha grandfather looks way more older than king magnifico. Plus having the so called princess main protagonist character turn evil, just because the king wasn't granting every wish. Would actually work better than having halfway through the movie paint the king who isn't wrong about wishes to be full evil right off the bat, no redemption. What the heck disney, he made a mistake forcefully. Plus I shockingly want to side with the so called villain because what he says is pretty much what Bruce almighty movie already warns everyone about grant all prayers or wishes can go bad if you don't use your keen eye and wits to watch out for the bad wishes and prayers. Because seriously not everyone in the kingdom is 100% good like asha claims. There has to be at least 6 scumbags somewhere in the kingdom in hiding. I mean come on the tangled series had an episode of where a villager in the kingdom didnt like rapunzel. To teach that not everyone is going to like you and thats fine. But the movie paints it like no everyone is all buddies and no one has evil intentions or are going to be terrible at what they wish for.
He was willing to teach Asha MAGIC. And since the king and queen don't seem to have children, Asha was likely also going to be the next queen. But as soon as she walks through the door, she has the GALL to ask for a personal favor? I wouldn't have given the wish to the ungrateful brat either. Did she even want to learn magic? Maybe if she hadn't immediately turned on and attacked the king, they could have gotten closer as she learned magic and just talked him into giving wishes back.
The King looked disappointed too, as soon as Asha ask that favour. I don't care what Disney and other delusional people say, Asha IS the real villainess. She is selfish enough to start a rebellion just because the king didn't want to fulfil the ambiguous wish of her grandpa
@@alexandraclavijo8149 If Asha realised what she did was wrong after that encounter (probably when meeting the Star), it could be her attempting to fix what she did whilst Magnifico became more jaded as the people who Asha originally told go against him more despite all the good he’s actually done. It would be a twist villain, but not any old twist; A Twist villain who wasn’t originally a villain, but instead just a slightly self-centred king who meant well being ‘twisted’ into a villain due to a mistake by the main character.
@@alexandraclavijo8149naw, too over sinplfied...both their lines of thinking were flawed an Asha is also pretty naive too so hard to call her a villain.
For me it's the false and misplaced morality. We aren't supposed to side with the villain just because they have a hard background doesn't mean we pass them for their sins. It's why villains from the Disney Renaissance and from the earlier installments like Cruella and Sher Kahn those were villains. Those were villains for the sake of just that. Been a villain. Cause Puss in boots 2 nailed it with it's villains.
How is it misplaced morality to feel bad for a character in a story? And you do realize just because some villains are sympathetic, that doesn’t mean the audience is supposed to side with them, right? Lotso from Toy Story 3 is an amazing example of this exact thing. Lotso had a sad backstory, but he was never portrayed as a character the audience should like, and I don’t think any of the modern examples of this trend in Disney films are either. Understanding why a character acts the way they do ≠ agreeing with them.
@@kyleinthejar6829 Exactly. A sympathetic backstory gives us insight into why they do what they do, but it does not automatically make them sympathetic.
Correct. Puss in boots has 3 villains and each a unique feeling. Goldilocks was originally a villain that is redeemable, Jack is unapologetically evil and not redeemable at all and also moves the plot along great, and Lobo is the fearful villain that the protagonist must overcome.
There are two ways I'd have taken Magnifico's character. Evil route: During the early days of the kingdom and hid studies as a sorcerer, raiders threatened to destroy everything. His magic was too weak to protect everyone so he turned to dark magic (the book in the movie) to protect his people. It's stronger but comes with a higher price. He's left with a small piece of his heart that is corrupted and is the Hyde to his Jekyll The book is sealed away with magic and it helps keep the corruption in his heart at bay but he never tells anyone about it because he can hear the dark magic calling to him and taunting him. "I'm here for you like none other. Use me. Remember the power you had." And, "do you really think they'd still love you if they knew what you've done?" Something happens that frees the corruption and it overtakes him. Villain song: "What you've/My Sacrifice." Where he's fighting to resist the corruption but is ultimately overpwered. He can then be cures by the power of song and love. ---------- Or‐-------- Wise and caring leader who has learned from his mistakes of why he can't grant every wish there is. Asha becomes his apprentice and learns magic from him so she can take over as the wish granter. She still thinks every wish should be granted but their argument about it is still left at, "granting every wish can have dangerous consequences." Magnifico's called away to something before he can elaborate further. Asha goes ahead and grants several seemingly harmless wishs she was told wouldn't be granted. Chaos ensues and it's a disaster that Magnifico has to fix. I don’t know what I'd call his song but it would include the line, "this one wants to get the girl. Without magic, I help where I can. But to grant this wish, do I make her fall for him or make him her perfect man? All I know is at the end of the day, I've taken someone's free will away." Asha would be the one to learn a lesson of repsonability and duty in this version.
I liked your second idea, but I doubt that they'd let their new empowered girl boss Disney Princess learn a lesson from a male character. Heck you could potentially combine your two ideas and have Asha's meddling inadvertently unleash the evil the King was trying to hold back.
Love the second version. But what if you combined them? Mabye some of the wishes she grants threatenes Magnificos power as king and he looses overall control of the kingdom. He gives in to the evil just to maintain power and control. He takes away free will (and at this point they could have some cool 2d animation like they promised everyone could be black and white to reflect that thier free will was taken). At the end Asha fixes everything and becomes ruler but had to come to terms with the fact that power comes at a price.
Both versions are really good, but I love the first version more. It would give us the scary evil Disney villain archetype we know and love while also making Magnifico a sympathetic character as well as having his transition into villainy make more sense.
It’s odd that Disney is struggling with this evil character vs. understandable motivations thing, because if you look at their past villains that REALLY feel despicable (I’m talking Frollo, Scar, Gothel, etc.), they’re all made scarier by the fact that we understand their motivations and see where they’ve gone wrong. They don’t suffer from a lack of complexity, but they all mirror ways that people can become evil in real life (seeing people as objects, hungering for power with no real desire to use it for good, viewing yourself as morally pure to justify your prejudice and harm). Like, those are very real, grounded, horrifying motivations. Don’t get me wrong, I love the “I’m evil and I love to be evil” villains too-I’m just saying it’s weird for Disney to struggle with this “complex villain” thing now, when they’ve done it so well in the past! Great video! Edit because I just thought of something: They’ve even done a good redeemed villain character before - John Silver! So maybe they can do it, they just actually have to put in the legwork to make us understand their motivations instead of tacking on a sob story to make us feel bad
Now that I think about it, how many Disney villains actually are evil just because they love being evil? Even Maleficent, despite declaring herself to be evil, still had an understandable (if incredibly petty) motivation for cursing the kingdom.
Blame the disney executives for that while wish is still in production. Let the writers do their jobs and it annoys me that disney execs (or other animation studios) tries to tamper the story or they don't see the good potential of the story telling what the writers could write.
Magnifico could work - he asserts that all he's doing is protect his people, but clearly he sees them as beneath him, and they're ungrateful if they should ever question his methods. He cannot be argued with, as it would imply he can be wrong, a fact he cannot accept. A true narcissist through and through.
@@Duothimir In the Sleeping Beauty Fairy Tale the witch curses the princess and thats it, you don't see the witch again. Maleficent is based on the witch, but her role is far more expanded.
9:49 I agree. The villain song This Is The Thanks I Get is a villain song that sounds upbeat and makes you want to get up and dance but thats it. It doesn't sound very evil, powerful, menacing, sinister or scary like the classic og villain songs. Examples: 1. BE PREPARED from the Lion King was very big, powerful, menacing, catchy, sinister & scary in a fun way, but not only that, some of the words Scar used were high-level SAT words. 2. POOR UNFORTUNATEL SOULS: starts of as sweet sounding beautiful but later becomes more powerful. Between it Ursula makes a deal with Ariel in trading her voice. 3. FRIENDS ON THE OTHER SIDE: Another deal making song but a bit more sinister, scary & threating. 4. HELLFIRE: The darkest, rawest, most powerful, menacing & scariest villain song.....and even very TABOO
Songs about the villain can be great too. To this day, Cruella DeVille’s song from 101 Dalmatians is one of my favorites. Sometimes even the way the other characters talk about the villain is enough to communicate exactly how the audience should feel about them.
Magnifico was clearly an antagonist forced into the villain role. There could've still been a villain, via giving a face to the source of Magnifico's trauma. This was Disney's chance to redefine what they consider Disney animation, by having their Spider-Verse or Puss in Boots 2 moment. Telling a deep story, with complex characters and experimental animation. But no, they played it safe and failed... again. Same with Raya, with all these stupid side characters as jokes rather than focusing on the themes and characters. Should've been about the Raya's relationship with her rival as the centerpiece of the conflict. You make the rivalries compelling, and you wouldn't have people desperate for a classic Disney villain.
I'd even settle on him being a fallen hero. Someone who wants to do right but hurts others in the process, kinda like Miguel. A shame he just ends up being so mishandled, but what can you do when Disney wants to set up its "Cinematic Universe"
The "I'll let you live here for free" could have been continued with "and I'd even rent you a bed.", giving it irony and hinting at the underlying greed.
I think villains are still irreplaceable in many stories. If you need to make miscommunication, the heroes stupidity and similar things to cause conflict and tension, then a villain would have solved it. For example our hero gets imprisoned, because he did something stupid or he gets imprisoned, because the villain has caused it. In the first scenario we get the impression that he deserved it. In the other scenario we feel sympathy for him.
I honestly believe Magnifico was supposed to a twist/sympathetic villain at first, with him seemingly super nice until his snap at Asha and troubled vague backstory But either the writers or executives nixed that because they saw audiences getting sick of those kinds of villains So they changed him, but it was too little too late by then anyways
I miss the days of old Disney Villains, like Scar, Ursurla, Goston, Frollo, Jafar, Clayton, Cruella Deville, Hades, Sykes, Yzma, Malificent and Dr Facilier. Those villains were memorable because they were evil and had great personalities.
I personally wouldn’t have minded if Magnifico was a redeemed villain, maybe his whole view on wishes could be that granting them Willy nilly isn’t a great idea, and sees the wishing Star as potentially harmful, so he goes to the book and tries to use it to stop the Star. That makes him have clearer motivations and better writing imo
Or you could have it that there was no villain - just trouble that was born from a misunderstanding, but things work out in the end and a lesson is learned. What I was personally hoping for (when hearing Asha was aiming to be Magnifico's apprentice) was that Asha would see Magnifico's method of handling the wishes as evil /cruel and take it upon herself (with Star's help) to see to it that those wishes are returned to the people of Rosas...only to find out the hard way that allowing people to make their own wishes come true may not be as pure/righteous as she thought (i.e. - the kingdom falls into chaos) - leaving Magnifico to help Asha makes things right. Asha learns that even the most innocent of wishes can cause a world of harm, and Magnifico take her on as his apprentice to teach her how to determine what a safe wish is (i.e. - one that would benefit the kingdom as a whole) and ones that should be avoided (i.e. - selfish/nonsensical/dangerous ones that cold cause mayhem).
Oh my gosh! I can’t believe you finally revealed yourself! I always thought we were just going to hear your voice and never see you what you look like when you’re not recording.
I feel like the problem with the Modern Disney Villains is that they’ve been trying to fit with the times, but in the end they don’t know what to do with Disney Villains. Some Villains like Hans and Bellwether shouldn’t even be Disney Villains but because Disney wanted to subvert everyone’s expectations, they had to be. The problem with them being Disney Villains is that the twist comes out of nowhere. If it was already established that Hans and Bellwether had ulterior motives that could’ve given their twist more nuance, but it doesn’t. Other Modern Disney Villains only exists because they were made to be villains. King Candy was already evil so the big reveal that he’s Turbo enhances him. While Calihan was evil because Big Hero 6 was a Marvel movie, so of course there had to be a Marvel Supervillain. But aside from Magnifico, King Candy, and Mother Gothel… the Modern Disney Villains are just forgettable. Since Encanto, Raya, and Strange Worlds didn’t need a villain… than Frozen, and Zootopia don’t even need one either.
No, “Zootopia” does need a villain - or at least an antagonist. The whole film is a buddy-cop crime mystery where they’re trying to uncover the true mastermind behind all the crimes being committed. It wouldn’t make sense for the film to be completely villainless. I think the underlying issue is that the film needed more clues to indicate that Bellwether was the culprit. She has a reason for why she’s doing it and we do see her being belittled by predators in all of her other appearances, but I think it was the lack of given screen-time that made her reveal feel seemingly random. Like, maybe if she were built up more, like a councilor or one of Judy’s confidants in addressing the prejudices she herself faces, that would’ve allowed them more time to lay the seeds in preparation.
I think it's because they don't want to show old people, stepparents, and people having to do underhanded things to get a leg up as evil. Just something I noticed.
That thumbnail of Frollo and Scar glaring at Magnifico is brilliance. 😆 The upbeat music of Magnifico's villain song, or at least what little audio you showed us, do not go well with the atmosphere of the scene. It's like if you took either the goosestepping-hyenas clip or the climax of "Be Prepared", muted it, and then played "I Just Can't Wait to be King" in the background. It feels very dissonant and out of place. I don't know if the rest of the song is like that, since I never saw the film or heard the song, but that is what I got from what little clips you showed us of the song. It's clear the new people behind the Disney studio do not understand their own audience anymore or why everyone used to love Disney back in 80's, 90's, 2000's, and even before the 21st century. And the lyrics of their new "I Want" songs and Villain songs just do not even compare to masterpieces such as "Out There", "Hellfire", "Part of Your World", "Poor Unfortunate Souls", or the aforementioned "I Just Can't Wait to be King" and "Be Prepared". It's depressing to see the state this studio is currently in. How empires fall...
All i could really think during this movie was "damn that escalated quickly" cause honestly it just felt like we were jumping to ideas without connecting them properly
When Disney made cruella a woman who wanted to take the fur of 101 Dalmantians to make a coat, a tragic character with sob backstories and the Dalmatians as the reason her mother died... I knew it was over, there's no more Disney villains and there's nothing we can do about it. Now Disney movies only have half baked antagonists that we have to feel sorry because they had a sad backstory.
I didn't see Cruella, but I've heard about it, and I agree. I think OUAT did a great Cruella. They had set up a precedent for villains being misunderstood and then redeemed, so you expect that for Cruella, and they even make you think that's what they're doing by giving her a seemingly abusive mother. But then it turns out that Cruella is just psychotic and always has been even as a child, using a poisonous flower to kill her own father (not even a stepfather so there's not even a "I won't let anyone replace my daddy" angle), so her mother ripped up the garden and kept her locked away to protect people from her.
Just say it like it is Aldone, they're cowards. Disney is afraid of making pure evil villains again, it's like they're afraid they'll step on someone's toes or something, that people will criticize them for being one-dimensional or boring. Which is a bunch of baloney cause Jack Horner proves how much people love pure evil villains. I honestly think it's projection at this point, they write an evil character but add a sad backstory or some other explanation for their actions because this is the Disney execs seeing themselves in the villains and wanting everyone to forgive them or feel bad for them. Wish is such a mess it borders on self-parody.
They aren't afraid of stepping on any toes if those toes are white, male, and cis-gendered. But then, they know that the villains are often the coolest and most beloved part of a franchise, so making your evil person into a class of people you're openly allowing hate and bigotry against runs the risk of creating an icon for those people to sympathize with, subverting your message that they're all racially unforgivably undeserving of any kind of representation.
I honestly think the latter idea is ridiculous. Like, do you really think Bob Iger watches Aladdin and thinks “THIS CARTOON VILLAIN WHO WANTS TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD IS JUST LIKE ME FR” Like, do you think every bad person in the world looks at Jafar or Maleficent and go “That’s me! I’m super evil! Mwahahaha!” Real people don’t think like that. Even absolute rich bastards don’t think like that. Bob Iger doesn’t think of himself as an evil scheming monster, he thinks of himself as a CEO doing his job, which is to make as much money for the company as possible. Like, I hate the Disney execs as much as anyone else but god, y’all really need to get a better understanding of how real people operate.
@@cartoonishidealism582 I concede I am using hyperbole but you can't expect me to look at what they did in cases like Lloyd and Ollie Jones and NOT think that Disney has become the villains they created.
@@cartoonishidealism582 Jafar happens to be my favorite Disney character. The problem is that in many cases "Evil" is simply whatever society decides it doesn't like at any given time. Sometimes, the justifications are easy to disassociate from. And sometimes, they're terribly relatable. When society itself decides you're evil just for being inside a category, then the act of being evil becomes an expression of defiance and spite. Shakespear himself acknowledged this hundreds of years ago. "I had rather be a canker in a hedge than a rose in his grace, and it better fits my blood to be a disdain of all than to fashion a carriage to rob love from any; in this, though I cannot be said to be a flattering honest man, it must not be denied that am but a plain-dealing villain. I am trusted with a muzzle and enfranchised with a clog, therefore I have decreed not to sing in my cage. If I had my mouth, I would bite; if I had my liberty, I would do my liking: in the meantime let me be that I am and seek not to alter me." For many today who are being told they are all the problems in this country, because they are one group or another... where the institutions that once fought for equality now seek plain power over those they've decided deserve it, regardless of background, history, or individual merit... those people are now being caged and denied liberty. And so, this sentiment begins to ring and resonate. If those who scorn me for the color of my face, and say I can only suffer for the crimes of the past, who will scream down any argument or reason of nuance and march against cultures and heritages because they are crassly included under the banner of "whiteness", if these people will declare that I must be evil... Then let me be evil.
Honestly point of being villain is that we are meant to hate them like scar and frollo who are among the darkest most evil and diabolical villains that modern day Disney sorely lacked
I couldn't agree with you more this is also a problem when it comes to other studios like DreamWorks and illumination granted that are a few exceptions but most of their villains are usually comedic it's rare that we get a villain that is menacing probably because writers are too afraid to go dark with their villains
I want more films that shuffle between tragic villains and evil villains. Regardless of their backgrounds, should be satisfying (or tragic depending on the story) to see fail.
These villains don’t feel evil enough anymore. The more evil they are the more satisfying their downfall is. Also they NEED a powerful villain song to show their dark intent.
Pitch for Magnifico as the villain (I haven't seen the film, this is going off the trailers): We open with a storybook read by Chris Pine, where the audience see the book describe a story about Rosas, a great kingdom ruled by a noble family, each page rewritten (green magic alters words). This rewrite presents Magnifico as a great sorcerer who married into the kingdom, and now grants one persons wish once a month. Now, in present day, we meet Asha, Magnifico's assistant for the last two years (she is forced bubbly and fun in public, but becomes more jaded outside). She still pushes for Magnifico to grant her Grandfather's wish, which Magnifico lightly turns her down. She goes to get the wish, but stumbles onto Magnifico's true scheme. The Queen has been locked in the dungeon for years, the one Asha has seen being a magical illusion. Magnifico explains that he was once a travelling wizard, who saw Rosas an opportunity to gain power. Magnifico is presented as a scheming con-man determined to maintain his power. When Asha finds the star, which grants peoples needs, rather than the selfish wants that Magnifico grants, Magnifico sees that as a threat. He manipulates the traitor friend through promising to grant his wish (we actually see that), and uses humorous chaos the star causes (it grants everyones wishes, causing magical hi-jinx) to turn the city against Asha. We can show this through three songs: the opening song trying to establish Asha but is hijacked by people gushing over Magnifico; the wishing ceremony presenting him as a rock star type; the villain song where Magnifico describes needing to keep his power by destroying the star, maybe with him laughing about how stupid wishing on a star actually is (maybe to the imprisoned queen)- something like "all you need is me" or "I choose what you want". Magnifico uses the people and his flashy (yet mostly useless) magic to try and get the star (a good commentary about CEO's pandering to the masses giving people superficial, appealing things rather than what they need, trying to stamp out any competition). He is evil at the start, and evil and the end. Asha needs to learn that while Magnifico is evil, the star isn't entirely good, as sometimes, people need to fight for their wishes, rather than hope someone else does it for them (again, a very nice lesson about self-reliance vs massive corporations). Asha needs to cast a spell to return the star to the sky, Magnifico tries to destroy it. This can lead to a final battle on top of the highest point in the city, where the citizens finally see Magnifico's true colours as he tries to kill Asha. Asha returns the star to the sky, Magnifico loses. Two potential endings: 1. Magnifico is imprisoned (either in the mirror, or just in general) and tries to plead with the city guard and the citizens to release him in exchange for granting all their wishes, but ultimately is still arrested. 2 (my preferred). We get a return to the classic Disney villain death sequence. Magnifico attempts to grab hold of the star as it returns to the sky, in a desperate attempt to destroy it. However, it burns his hands/he misses it, causing him to fall past the tower and off a cliff, or just to his death (alternatively, he gets dragged into the sky forever with the star, or something like that)
Yeah. Children aren’t dumb. My parents watched the older films with me as a kid and they still remember the villains for being rememberable as they are
5 year olds or under want toys, so that's the age bracket childrens movies are aiming for. Given that tweens really no longer exist, it feels like movie companies have no idea on how to find a balance between who they're aiming a movie at.
Magnifico went from a villain with depth to a flat villain in 15 minutes. I loved his potential to be a sympathetic villain with a humorous side, but they really squandered his potential.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted him to be both the sympathetic but misguided antagonist and the cackling despicable madman at the same time
@@matityaloran9157The latter psrt only worls reañly if its on a descent and not all at once. Except Magnífico didnt reslly had a descent to full villainy, he just suddenly got villainous for squat.
I might get jumped for this but I don’t think the lack of villains is the problem when it comes with new Disney movies. I think it’s just the story are boring and poorly written. You can have a one dimensional villain, a twist villain, or a sympathetic villain. They aren’t the problems themselves just the way they are written or how the story are written.
I think we have lost sight of what makes an actual true and good person, and thus have also lost what it means to be evil. Relativism undermines good stories.
I still haven't watched the movie. But hearing all this, there's one very simple way to make the villain work. He lies And you reveal it at the mid of the movie and not the last third. Explain that people will say whatever they feel you need to hear in order to remain in power... Oh, wait. That DOES reflect Disney a bit too much, doesnt it?
I think this is one of the better opportunities for a villain that has a good point but bad methodology. The way it’s set up Magnifico can grant wishes, but in order to get the magic to grant the wishes he needs to harvest the energy of other wishes, which destroys them and renders their wisher unable to remember them (so it’s like they never had that wish to begin with). That could bring up a moral dilemma: is it OK to grant one person’s wish if it means destroying multiple other people’s wishes? Or is it better for some wishes to simply never have existed at all (like we can probably all think of a few) in which case it would be good to sacrifice them to give life to other wishes? You could set up a scenario where Magnifico had thought to destroy the bad wishes to harvest energy to make the good wishes come true but then got paralyzed by having too many good wishes that he didn’t want to destroy which leads to the start where he doesn’t seem to be granting wishes anymore. Then he finds out about the wishing Star and by golly that’s a source of near infinite wish energy so he could use it to grant everyone’s wishes, but that would destroy the Star and we like the Star because it’s the cute little mascot character that’s friends with the protagonist.
Good concept. There would then be the possibility of turning him either into a confused character, which, wanting to do good, could commit evil, or a poser, who, wanting to be seen as "good," stoops to being an arrogant person to whom everything is supposed to go according to him.
Your version is actually pretty interesting. Could potentially have a bit of a slippery slope kind of situation, where he starts out destroying bad wishes, then running out of those starts moving on to incompatible wishes (for example, two guys wanting to marry the same gal, or two people wanting to open the same kind of shop, or a husband wishing some different direction for his family than the wife does... that kinda thing, situations where granting one wish just makes the other impossible), then descend into where he apparently is in the movie, deciding to only grant wishes he likes or somehow benefit him. Could even show how this selection process is starting to take its toll on his mind, either going a little crazy having to process the outcomes and worthiness/unworthiness of so many wishes or starting to think himself as a deity with the power to make these choices for people.
You know what they should have done?? Made the wife the second villain. Magnifico can still be selfish or whatever his issue is and then when his wife takes the book and turns out to be worse than him, he gets that lil redemption thus satisfying the generational trauma and the legitimate villain goal they wanted
I enjoyed Wish, but for once, I think they developed a pretty redeemable villain, but for some reason just went at the end of the movie to be like, “Nope! No reasonable redemption arch for him. He’s screwed.” I wish that they developed him more and actually show more of his relationship with the people so we and the audience can see more of his loving side and why the people are so devoted to him. Instead, we just get told he’s a great king, instead of shown. They missed the first rule of storytelling.
That's because disney is screwed, disney allows activist and political people to dictate and control of what to put out on their movies. I was looking forward to this movie until i saw the clip of how king magnifico explains why he doesn't grant all wishes. I can tell at that moment something wasn't right. There is a video of an animator that i saw who confess what has been happening to both disney and DreamWorks. For now DreamWorks is okay because of puss n boots and is doing better than disney, but only time will tell when they will fall like disney is doing now
@@cartoonishidealism582 believe me, I agree with you on that, but it's clear that modern disney has lost all sense of making great animation and great stories and they lost all the talent, creativity in the Studios, they don't want everyone to know that. Besides there are writer strikes going on. I won't be surprised if animators go on strike next since disney fired more employees because the movie wish failed.
Honestly, imagine how much better Frozen 2 would've been if it had an actual villain and committed to the darker tone. Maybe a political adversary towards Arendelle who could try and manipulate the events of the first film to make Elsa look bad. I mean think about it. I'm sure Elsa's giant blizzard snowstorm didn't just affect Arendelle. And neighboring kingdoms may not have had the context for why this storm happened. Weaselton, Hans, or someone else with a reason to have a grudge against Elsa and her family could've easily gone back home and misrepresented the facts to whomever is in power, and said Elsa caused this freak accident as a threat or declaration of war. There's your conflict, cue plot. Or maybe have the antagonist be someone with similar magical powers like Elsa, but you know, evil instead. The first film was originally gonna have Elsa be the villain anyways, maybe this new person can be the dark parallel to Elsa. Perhaps this person is born into a royal family in a kingdom with authoritarian values and is used by their parents as a weapon and means to an end to threaten settlements, towns, and even other kingdoms into submission. They eventually grow up and inherit the throne. During their reign, they are able to sense something about the storm is unnatural and have their suspicions validated when an undercover ambassador/spy who attended Elsa's coronation tells them about Elsa's powers manifesting during the event. They decide a rival is a threat to their position as a monarch and start a war. There your conflict, cue plot. They could've even kept the spirit of the first film about the sisterly relationship between Anna and Elsa by having Elsa start to push Anna away again, not because of her powers but because being a queen is busy work and she doesn't have as much free time to spend with her or something, and this is only exacerbated by the brewing conflict on the horizon. There's so many routes they could've gone with the movie honestly, and they didn't.
My idea for Frozen II was to make 3 new characters that represent the other classic elements; fire, earth, air, and have them find Elsa and her being one part of a quartet of gifted elemental children that carry the elements (seasons?) within them. The main conflict would be that the other 3 were ousted from their respective homes for being "different" and formed a group together, while Elsa overcame her personal conflict with her family and kingdom, and was unique in that, as a princess, she was lucky to have more authority and importance. Have the girl representing the "fire" element essentially be the "leader" pushing for Elsa to leave her family and kingdom and come with them to truly discover herself and be free in her powers, rather than having to restrain herself and govern others, but have the fire one be a bit of a supremacist because of how she and the others were treated; she thinks they're all better than normal humans and that they should essentially get to rule and dictate, only using their powers for themselves, or whatever they want to, even if it hurts others. So Elsa's conflict would be wanting to connect with people like herself, but also loving her family and kingdom, and feeling torn between the two. She would obviously ultimately choose the latter, and maybe have that aspect of her make her even stronger because love gives us greater power, or something. Have a fun big battle between them all with Elsa ultimately winning and bringing earth and air to her side.
King magnifico should have been the Hero. That stupid girl should have been revealed to be the villain. Wanting everyone's wishes to come true that's insane
I want what it looked we were getting in the first trailer where the king wisely points out that not every wish can be granted. It would have been better had Asha been a naive idealistic girl who didnt get the wisdom in what the king said and had to learn it the hard way by fixing her mistake with the Kings help. But nope, hes evil and shes somehow right despite her ideals being very detrimental in reality.
Songs that sound like they are typical Pop songs you hear on the Radio has been typical in Disney musicals the past two decades, and I dislike most of them.
Actually My Little Pony Friendship is Magic did this concept better. In season 4 i think? Starlight is a unicorn who can take the cutie marks from the other ponies. She was running what was supposed to be a utopian town where everyone is the same and happy. These cutie marks are what give them their core identity as its based on their special talent/skill. Without their marks they are functional but still hallow and cant do their special ability anymore like sing or ski. When Starlight is defeated it was explained that she did this all to her fellow friends because she wanted them to all be unified and that when she was younger a friend got their mark before her and then left town. She didnt want that to happen again. She was meant to be sympathetic and they balanced a good job of you understanding her motives without her being outright evil. Disney needs to pick. Either make them sympathetic with real reasons or make them evil with a compelling motive. Not this wishy washy back and forth crap
It was Season 5 when Starlight Glimmer was introduced, and yeah, MLP did this type of thing much better. They also gave her a really decent redemption arc over the course of several seasons, exploring how she overdoes magical solutions to avoid deep-rooted issues she has about friendship.
Starlight was a passable villain at best, her motive is one of the most idiotic I've ever seen, and her redemption is iffy. I've seen worse, but I've definitely seen better. Thakfully, once she's on the right side, she gets better with each appearance.
I knew this would be crap, no news... Everything Disney announces in grandiosity ends up being a grand failure, instead. Disney is gone. Watch new animation studios arise and eat them all alive. It's what history teaches us too: empires rise and fall in full circles.
At least the new villain isn't a twist villain, that's good and hopefully they'll get back to doing villains If Zootopia 2 will ever introduce the birds and reptiles, I'm hoping for a reptile villain who has a deep extreme hatred for all mammals
Personally I think this should have been more a long the line of a Sorcerer's apprentice storyline. The King safeguards the ability to grant wishes and the MC has to learn that not all wishes can or should be granted or chaos would happen.
I think mother gothel was the last good villain that Disney had. she actually made sense as a villain; she had a character arc, actual oppressive behavior, and character traits other than 'evil' or 'relatable', such as selfish, manipulative and charming. She has, in my opinion, one of the best villain songs: 'Mother Knows Best.' (Plus it gets revised later too) Thank you.
I'm really disappointed in Wish, especially when looking at rough drafts and artwork where the Queen would be as crazy like her husband.. We literally could have a villian couple that was like Gomez and Morticia.
It could have been so good. Especially if they maintained their close relationship the entire time instead of hating each other in the end or something
Did anyone else think that it would be revealed Magnifico had actually bewitched the kingdom into thinking he had always been in charge and invented a fake sad backstory? The queen was actually the one who built the kingdom and was actually the ruler. A little like King Candy in Wreck it Ralph
King Magnifico was a great villain by modern standards. The modern era of disney villains were mostly suprise villains with the exception of Mother Gothel. But he still doesn't stand as strong as the legendary og classic villains like Scar, Frollo, Hades, Jafar & Maleficent
@@thecookiecrumbsinpercyshai8685 Not quite. The main character trusting someone we the audience know to be a villain is a dramatic irony, not a plot twist
It’s one of those moments where we just plead for things to go back to how they were before. When Disney used to tell good stories, like how the Disney Renaissance did.
Personally, I think King Magnifico was actually my favorite character in Wish. However, they definitely could have done even more with him (and Asha), especially when it comes to his tragic backstory. There are a few brief mentions of it, but (like you said in the video) they never explain it in depth.
Oh my gosh. Their narrative for every film for the past decade has been the same thing, “Let the old ways die.” And now hearing the new villain is another take on this just bores me to my soul.
When Wish came out, i made 3 similarities between King Magnifico & Frollo: 1. Both of them start off already being in power. Magnifico was a king while Frollo was a judge 2. Both of them start off their songs boasting how "benevolent" & "good" they are. 3. Both of them want to capture and execute the heroine of the movie.
Yesterday I watched a CZcams video about The Rescuers Madam Medusa is also a great villain with no redeeming qualities and really well animated and acted
I watched Puss in Boots 2, and yes to beat that dead horse again, you have three villains. The sympathetic one in Goldie, the unhinged one dimensional comedy yet still pure evil in Jack Horner and the terrifying, you can’t reason nor escape villain who’s 100% serious in Death. Meanwhile Disney goes, hmm, twist villain or family generational trauma story or do we really have to have villains who are evil? Can’t they technically be right the whole time or be fighting for a good cause?
Disney will never top Frollo when it comes to villains. Ever. A true villain is someone who perpetrates evil acts against you while genuinely believing that they're the good guy, AND they'll attempt to gaslight you at the same time into believing that you deserved what they did to you. Frollo is the superior villain because he's a perfect reflection of the worst real life evils of humanity. Also Hellfire is the best villain song of all time, change my mind.
King Magnifico wasn't exactly the villain that we were expecting. Even so, it was nice to have a proper Disney villain for the first time since Gothel. The song wasn't perfect either, but I think Chris Pine sings it very well
Hearing that the Queen was supposed to be evil as well, that would've been a cool way to go and something actually different from the same ol same Disney.
Magnifico himself should only have the ability to take people's wishes and either use them for himself or fullfil the wisher's wish. For example if a person wishes that they could fly, then he could either steal their wish for himself or give them the ability to fly. He could hoard these wishes in a vault until he needs to use them. The more wishes he steals, the more insane he becomes.
I am over animated films having celebrity voices. It tells me that the stories are not strong enough without “names” attached. It also pushes audiences away who may not like these celebrities. I don’t like Chris Pine so I will not watch Wish. If they picked voice actors or lesser known actors this would not happen. Also the animation style from Wish just looks bad.
Maybe it's my own trauma lens, but I loved this movie and especially Magnifico. He strikes me as a cult leader. He's super charismatic, handsome, just a big ol' "nice guy" who tells you that if you just basically give him your soul you won't have any worries anymore and can live happily and blissfully ignorantly ever after. I mean, how would they even know to care about ehat they're missing? And like any good cult leader, they always have good reasons for their savior complexes, sometimes very tragic backgrounds, think Jim Jones. Maybe if they were more explicit in showing different town members and Asha's friends or family having doubts but getting corrected, go missing, etc some real Ba Sing Se stuff it might have sold it more. That's where Disney needed to go all in. But idk, it seemed clear to me. And my four year old twins loved and understood it. One turned to me and literally said "the king is scary, he pretends to be so nice, but he's just taking everyone's power so that he can only have it himself. He wants to be the only one, and they need to stop him" right after she saw him finally use the book. I'd say message well received, even if not perfectly delivered 😊
Agreed, it was very clear. They nailed the portrayal of a narcissist. Reminds me a little of my narcissistic father, of a cult leader, and - speaking as an ex-Christian who used to be very religious - God of the Bible. I like Magnifico as a villain, it's really a shame that so many people are disappointed in him.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades Yes, to everything you said. Sadly I can relate to your every word. 😓 I think a lot of exchristian/exreligious/excult members can see this portrayal for what it is. Seeing my girls define the behavior of a narc and to stay away without having to go through it is more knowledge so many of us never had. So bravo to the writers for that 👏🏼😔 He uses a big book of manipulative magic that teaches him how to crush their hopes/souls and fuel himself to further isolate and control his citizens/victims. That's not like pastors at all 🥴 Or the all powerful sky daddy who doesnt answer you because "reasons" and you better still worship or else. So much in this movie... I prefer Asha's actual sky daddy🥲
@@nekoniji13The funny thing is that some Christians can see the similarities and are offended by this movie, claiming it's anti-God 😂 I saw one video like this, gave me a good laugh. How these people can see their deity's similarity to a cartoon villain and not question if there could be something wrong with their religion, is beyond me.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades I KNOOOWW!!! The sad truth, if I think about what my view would be if I were still Christian, is I have to defend this jerk because after all he made us and can do what he wants and even if we don't like it tough cookies because he'll burn us forever in conscious torment. 🥲 This movie isn't anti-spiritual IMO. Asha literally prayed to the universe and her father in heaven, and was blessed with the light/enlightened to follow the light given to us all to free ourselves. It's more gnostic and anti-religion, or what OG Christians would've been anyway 😅. Suggesting that you're always connected to that wholeness, and that you don't need a middle man to have access to the divine, is a powerful message🥰 (Or its Lucifarian...light bearing and all that...even though Jesus is the light bringer who literally enlightens you with truth. Just like the serpant. But hey that's too much thinking. Thinking bad. 🤫)
I got so mad when I saw the thumbnail, it said Disney's villain problem, it had SCAR AND FROLO ON IT!? AUGH, why do you put Scar, Frolo and MAGNIFICO OF ALL PEOPLE, on a thumbnail together. But I am now satisfied, Magnifico being the problem not the good villains.
It's definitely concerning that Disney has been giving bad moral lessons in their movies because of the bad villain writing. I really didn't like the final message in Raya, that you should forgive anyone just because they feel bad regardless of how terrible their actions were. That is a TERRIBLE message to teach kids, especially children who are the victims of bullying or have abusive parents. Not everyone deserves forgiveness, and it's bad to teach children that they do just because the bully feels remorse. From what i gather from Wish, the king doesn't want to grant wishes because some of them have the potential to be very very evil, or at the very least destructive and chaotic. People SHOULDN'T get anything they want, just because they want it. If Asha just gives everyone their wish no matter what by the end of the movie, that would make a lot of people very miserable very quickly. That message encourages selfishness and entitlement, which is the last thing Americans should be encouraging lol we're already way too entitled. It's frustrating because it's only these past two Disney Princess movies that have been like this. The Pixar movies have been really great at having an ambiguous villain but still teaching good moral lessons by the end of the film. Encanto showed how forgiveness can happen, but it's very nuanced and acknowledges that a lot of work needs to be done by BOTH sides involved. It's not impossible for modern Disney movies to be nuanced and have good messages, Disney just doesn't seem to care :/
I love your videos so much and I’m really hoping that you achieve your dream of becoming Disney’s CEO because you’re able to appreciate the art that goes into animation and storytelling and I think you’d be a wonderful CEO
We can point to Malificent live action as the point where Disney villains became toothless. Why can't a villain just be a villain? They have to be sympathetic and misunderstood all the time?
Disney has made the mistake of putting themselves in a bubble, a giant bubble wrapped bubble. The result is they have disconnected from the basics of the reality that connects everyone else, driven away those who actually provided the skills and talent that made Disney successful for being inclusive, ironic, and their storytelling is lacking because of it. Specifically the importance the characters have in the stories, and what is it that makes the audience root for some characters and be cautious of other characters. The characters are the features of these stories that the audience invest in, and when it the character arcs are not strong the story falls flat. With the exception of a few, Disney animated films in the last 10 years has lacked a strong antagonist and a sloppy protagonist. Those in charge have gotten too lazy and arrogant to understand the methods they use are not working.
I disagree completely on with the idea that 'This is the Thanks I Get' is a good song. It straight up sounds like Christian Pop. It sucks. It being upbeat isn't the issue. There have been good upbeat villain songs. This just isn't one of them.
I'm not sure if it is because they have more creative freedom or what but for some reason you don't see this problem with Disney's tv animation when it comes to there villains like king Andrias from Amphibia or emperor Belos from the owl house and the same can be said about there heros too like Anne, Luz, and Lunella (Moon girl and Devil dinosaur) with each of them having distinct personalities
It's wild to me how mid they let Magnifico be. He started out interesting then fell off a cliff. It's like Disney has decided their fans will accept anything and no serious effort needs to be made. Which is sad and annoying.
Nah those are from the official lyric videos. The actual movie clips haven’t been uploaded yet, besides “This Wish”, so this is basically the best we got for now aside from promo clips
King Magnifico was powerful, manipulative & evil, but not very scary. The only way he could ever be scary is by appearing in the mirrors of a funhouse.
He was indeed powerful, but in no manner manipulative, let alone evil. The King promised to keep the wishes of his people safe, not to grant them all. As Asha states in the opening sequence: '[The King] studied the magic of the world tirelessly and became a mighty sorcerer able to protect from harm or ill will, any wish given to him. And for the good and the worthy, even grant that wish.' Besides, the fact that he only grants the wishes that are good for Rosas does not make him a villain, it is common sense. A king has to think about the majority and the peace of his kingdom before the *individual* needs of the people living in it. His actions when he starts using the 'forbidden magic' is irrelevant since he is being possessed by it. The fact that he *might* be wrong about how he rules his Kingdom and that he made a mistake by using the 'evil' book does not make him a villain. Besides, it is hinted at that the king thinks the glow of light that appeared in the Kingdom when Star answered to Asha's whining was forbidden magic. He says: 'To summon such light would demand a spell so powerful' and then turns towards the plot-device book.
@@DylanM379 So you believed Magnifico's every word? That Asha's grandfather's wish could be dangerous, for example? Nah bro, the king only thinks he's the good guy here, but he's actually narcissistic and controlling. He granted some of the wishes to keep his power in the kingdom and be praised (practically worshipped). His intentions according to the storybook at the beginning were noble, but the power clearly corrupted him, made him possessive and greedy. The forbidden book just made it much worse, taking away any good left in him. It's like Asha argued, if the wishes wouldn't be granted, why not give them back as long as they're not actually dangerous (which as far as we saw none of them were)? What was the king really protecting them from? It's not like they were in danger in their owners' hearts. People without their wishes (keep in mind, they're not just plain wishes said on a whim, but more like biggest dreams and aspirations) forgot an important part of them so they became a shadow of themselves, which I suppose made them easier to control and manipulate. About Star's power - he was obviously afraid of something more powerful than himself, competition if you will.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades His wish was to inspire the next generation. It is too vague and I agree with the King. It is obvious he meant it. Inspiration is not always good. Do you believe silly Asha when she says that taking wishes that were willingly given to the King for protection is not stealing? Do you believe her too when she prefers *stealing* the wishes from the King because she assumes that he would not listen to her if she tried to speak to him again. She is just too lazy and bad to do the right thing (even though, I know, it is but a silly plot device to stupidly rush the story forward). She could have gone to her buddy the hypocritical queen so that she may go and speak to her loyal husband on Asha's behalf. We know that he listens to his horrible wife after all.
I am going to try and go through all the nonsense of this film, and show why the King is a Tragic Hero, Asha a mere *fool,* and the queen a monstrous hypocrite. I. In the opening sequence, when Asha tells the story of the Kingdom (which will prove that she already knows that not all wishes are granted *before* her interview with the King), she says: '[The King] studied the magic of the world tirelessly and became a mighty sorcerer able to protect from harm or ill will, any wish given to him. And for the good and the worthy, even grant that wish.' The latter sentence implies that even though he accepts any one to live in his orderly Kingdom, he is the one who decides who is good and worthy. The former sentence proves that the only thing he promises to his people is to keep their wishes safe. II. Asha is the immature and impulsive protagonist of the story. She wants to become King Magnifico's apprentice ONLY to ask him to grant her grandfather's wish. Before her interview with Magnifico, Gabo implies that she only wants to be the King's apprentice because apprentices and their families more often than not have their wishes granted sooner than other people; Asha does not rebuke him (cheers to our dishonest 'heroine'!). The stupid thing is, it is later stated that only the King is allowed to use magic in his Kingdom; for what does he need an apprentice, then? ('How do you enjoy your script, sir?' 'Half-baked, please.') III. When she is cringely shocked by the King because he does not grant all wishes (which she already knew), she stupidly says, in order to move the plot forward even though it should have been expanded upon, that the people of Rosas are good, as if the audience should accept that unconvincing statement without proof from a dishonest and hypocritical seventeen year-old girl, who is going to also become a thief later on haha The people gave their wishes to the King willingly Asha, taking them away from him without his consent *is* stealing! My apologies, I digress, I know, it is not her fault if she is a plot device personified: it is that of the incompetent screenwriters. IV. The King is more heroic than Asha and he has such an unfair fate in the end. He starts using 'forbidden magic' (what an inspired plot device!) in order to protect his Kingdom and he cannot be saved from this dark magic because... the 'evil' book says so! Lazy writing! The worst part is, when he ends up being trapped in the mirror, he seems to be his normal self again, and the queen (his wife!) does not care at all! Let us punish the man who wants to protect the Kingdom he worked hard to build because he *wished* to keep people safe! They introduce us to the idea that all living things are connected to one another, and they do not redeem the King? It was the perfect opportunity, Disney! V. The queen is the real villain of the story, she switches sides instead of trying to save her husband and feels no compassion towards him. She clearly knew how her husband ran his Kingdom and did not mind one bit until Asha started being a threat to Magnifico. She is nothing but a hypocritical opportunist. She turned on him the second he made a bad choice. She is the most pathetic character ever written in a Disney film. VI. The people of Magnifico are so 'empty' without their wishes that they live happily without them--except for Simon who is sooo tired because he gave it away. If they can live happily without their desires, it is all that matters. From the King's perspective (and I mostly agree with him) wishes are burdens. When they give their wish *willingly* to Magnifico, they feel exhausted at first because of the burden that has been lifted off their shoulders, but once they get used to being free of it, they can be truly happy, whether the King grants them their heart's desire or not. He gives them the ability to let go, which most people are not willing to do, as if true happiness could exist while holding on to things like an old miser hoards his money because he unknowingly lives in fear of poverty and cannot/will not loosen his grip on that fear, and therefore contributes to his own unhappiness. Magnifico gives his people true freedom *for free* and they still find cause to complain? VII. When the star-full but heartless people of Rosas sing together, it unites their souls together, and allows them to defeat Magnifico. But most of them have given their wish to him, have they not? What do I mean by that? If wishes were that important, the persons who had given them away would never have been powerful enough to defeat the King. Which means that they already have all they need inside of them: wishes are a plus, not a necessity to happiness or strength. VIII. In the end, Star who does not grant wishes, but can only make non-human living things talk (silly plot device again, I have lost count), gives Asha a wand, to use magic, which unlike the King, is given to her, whereas Magnifico worked hard to achieve that in order to protect people. But now, the simple-minded girl with no heart and not wits, who ruined the life of a *good* man and kept prattling on about the fact that people had to make their dreams come true by themselves, will become a fairy godmother who grants wishes! May the gods help whoever crosses her path. The last thing I would like to point out is that people's wishes change over the course of their lives, this is why a wish or a desire cannot define some one, because if it it did and was truly a part of one's soul, it would be immutable. Wishes are a plus, not who a person truly is. To conclude, the story has not been thought through, Disney has no respect for their audience. The dialogues are plot-driven, almost none of them allows the characters to be developed in a satisfying manner. But of one thing, I am sure: The queen is an awful character; she deserves the same sympathy she showed the King when he most needed her. The King is not a villain, Asha is not a hero. Magnifico is a Tragic Hero, Asha is nothing but ashen stardust.
@@DylanM379 Hmm, I can see in your wording that you don't like Asha much, which is fair, but honestly, I agree with her on the wishes. Well, stealing is stealing, but in this case it's justified. They are not the king's possession, they belong to their rightful owners, just as they would if no magic was involved. Giving them back makes it possible for the people to pursue them on their own, as they should in the first place. Giving them to the king to grant was the owners' mistake, and by the end of the movie they all learned their lesson. Sorry but your argument about inspiration is not very convincing, just like Magnifico's wasn't (sounded like an excuse, or paranoia). Speaking of vague, lol. The king is a textbook narcissist. I don't know why you seem to hate the queen so much, she only betrayed him after he turned 100% evil after messing with the book and basically threatened her. Look, while I love a good debate, I don't have any more time to discuss this with you, so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Every person's perception of a character can be different (apparently much different :D) and that's fine. Movies and other works of fiction are subjective.
0:04 a broken record playing a good song isnt always a bad thing (a saying ive heard a few times in response to the "your just a broken record" complaint)
The king from Wish seems like someone who grew up watching once upon a time, and properly learned its lessons. But then the movie argues no, People should just be able to make wishes and have them granted... I say scrap the book entirely. It's muddling what's going on. It's fair for the king to be frustrated, and feel undervalued. However Let's make that a core part of the plot, have the king's views of his people be one of the major problems to solve.
It felt like they couldn't really justify any reason for him keeping the dreams, when the entire setup of taking away people's desires and personalites is right there. They could have had him unable to have aspirations or the capacity to make anything unless using other's ideas.
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was all about control. If he had the wishes he was the only one that could grant them. If people couldn't remember them, they couldn't work towards fulfilling them on their own. Magnifico freaked out when the Star arrived because wishes could be granted outside of his control.
Disney isn't able to make pure villains anymore because they pandered to the "Disney villains were coded" subset so anymore irremediable villains will be seen as an insult to some minority (look what happened to Doctor Who and Davos) and Disney doesn't want to be seen as bigoted. Weirdly enough, Wish made Magnifico more of a tragic hero were the song "This is the Thanks I get" highlights the pressures of leadership and burnout forcing him to use the spellbook.
This villain was made to generate sympathy for wealth hoarders. Saying that "Even if you say yes to everything , it will never be enough." "You're actually the hero by never granting a wish , allows them to earn it." I think I just out wrote Disney.
@@cartoonishidealism582 , that's the point. They are illustrating a false narrative that makes everyday villains look more sympathetic , but they were too greedy to pull it off. It's the same reason they said 2D animators were too lazy. Indie animators kicking Disney's ass should have defeated this claim. 2D unions are small but strong , few but well placed. CG have no unions , and go bankrupt from abusive overuse regularly. That's the real reason 2D is gone , Bob Iger ate their checks.
I've been watching a lot of videos making a critic over Wish, and I still didn't watch it, because I'm from Brazil, so yeah. Also, I don't go to cinema very often, so I'll be waiting for it to come in Disney plus. But even if I didn't watch it yet, I'd like to share with you guys the ideas I had in my mind about what this movie could be, based on what the trailer gave us. And just like I said: I didn't watch it, so if my idea happens to be too far of the reality of the movie... You already know why. I really just want to share my idea for fun, so here we go: I thought it could be a really good plot if we started with Asha being presented to us as a really ambitious main character. Not in a bad way tho, but like a person who have really idealistic goals (you can think of her goal as whatever you want). So, that's why she would be revolted when discovering that king Magnifico doesn't make the majority of wishes come true. She would have EXACTLY this mentality of "every wish should be turned into reality". But here's the thing: her mindset would ALSO be portrayed as a bad thing. Magnifico ans Asha would be both opposites: one is selfish and doesn't make the effort for his people wishes, even the ones that are good and worth it. While Asha would also slowly become kinda antagonic (not on purpose, but because of her immature mindset), since all wishes becoming true would mean a total chaos. And she would discover that during her journey, trying to fight against Magnifico ways and seeing the consequences of her actions, by seeing the chaos that is caused when ALL people get what they want. I imagine Asha somehow taking over the wish-magic-thing in a certain part of the story, causing that chaos. People of the kingdom would be in a total mess, since certain people made absurd wishes, while other made wishes that somehow countered other people wishes, etc... A chaos, basically. Then Asha would regret, and Magnifico would appear there in a miserable state (since she took his power), and he would throw at her face the fact that she ruined everything. Then they would argue a lot about how the other is wrong, and by the end of the discution a third person (idk, maybe one of Asha's friends) would intercept and be the sensible one here, making the two try to put themselves in the other's feet. Then, Asha and Magnifico would notice by themselves that they were both wrong. After that, I think we could have a twist (or not a twist actually, it could be a thing built since the start), where Magnifico talks to the queen, explaining that he regrets his actions and don't want to have this kind of control over the wish-magic-thing anymore. But then the queen would go villain and go like "if you don't want the power, then I want!", and she would try to take over the wish magic, turning into the final villain (she could be written as a neutral character since the start, like someone who was supposely just supporting Magnifico in his dictatorial way of possessing wishes, showing that since the beggining she wanted power and was using him for that) Then, Asha, Magnifico and friends would have the crazy fight against the queen, she is defeated (then she is arrested or smth idk), and then Magnifico and Asha make their final decision together: freed the wish-magic, and let it work by it's own, as a nature-force that decides by itself how to deal with peoples wishes. No more human controlling it, since no human should "play God". And then, Magnifico would stay as a normal king, Asha somehow would reach her goals in a cool and natural way, and the wish-magic would work in balance as it should be, by itself The end!
The part about living for free and not charging rent is actually brilliant on some level. It is a redundant line, but it is supposed to show how Magnifico's benevolence is rooted in hypocrisy. It highlights Magnifico's hypocrisy of his benevolence.
This could actually be fixed if they make a sequel that mirrors Fantasia. Micky steals the hat out of wonder and hubris but is left humiliated and ashamed by the consequences of his actions. They could easily recreate that dynamic here with Magnifico's return and redemption. Sadly even with such an appropriate fix this will forever be a broken product.
Something I think would be cool about the villain for wish (In my opinion, I'm not a writer myself.) It would be that the king is a lovely, wise sorcerer, and the Queen seems to be like one as well, but already has the powers of the evil bad bad book, but hides it. She makes king Magnifico the face of royalty, but the queen is actually behind the choices and all with the wishes, making the king finally revolt with Star Boy and Asha, with her friends as well.
"This Is The Thanks I Get" is a good song, but only because its a rip off of "You're Welcome". And given the similar names it makes me wonder if that was intentional. Like its supposed to be a meta moana reference, but effectively its just recycling. I think what they were going for is they wanted a song that sound upbeat, like a hero's song, and then slowly have that unwind into a villain song. It's a cool idea with a lazy execution.
Imagine if the queen was the villain. She would have the ideal that not everyone deserves to have their wish fulfilled, and the king’s ideal is that not every wish deserves to be fulfilled
Mother Gothel is the best take on a "modern" villain. Still horrible in almost everything she does, relatable and realistic to anyone raised by narcissist but you still kind of have a moment of understanding why Rapunzel would care about her. Where is another one of these villains?
Doctor Facilier isn't sympathetic, but he's understandable. A man who wants power in pre-depression New Orleans and will stop at nothing to get it? Classic villain.
The only improvement they could have made on him was show *why* he wanted the power. Make him one of the veterans that returned home from WW1 when Tiana's father didn't, have him be angry and never want to be powerless again, but also not wanting to fight another war, remaining in the shadows, becoming the Shadow Man
As mentioned in another comment, the only villain I was impressed with was Ernesto from Coco. He was later introduced, but his persona was built up by Miguel’s perception, despite the clues being there like Hector’s underhandedly stated he knew Ernesto at one point. But when we see Hector finally approaching Ernesto, and Miguel filling in the blanks of Hector’s death and the motives Ernesto had to kill him was great villain writing.
Ernesto wasn’t cliche enough to have his wickedness to pop out, as he had the charisma that showed himself to be the life of the party that initially made others think of him as friendly. It’s not until the main characters are able to figure out Ernesto’s actions that the audience sees in in a different light as cruel and cold to do this to a supposed friend.
Otherwise since Frozen, it just seems like Disney writing their villains have gotten sloppy. They’re tried to use cookie cutter scenarios but it doesn’t work for every story. It’s ironic Coco was actually a Pixar film, when really the studio never was into musicals or villain antagonists, with the exception of Up. In the last decade it seems like Disney doesn’t want to approach evil, which I think is what is holding them back. The tales and fables that attracted Walt’s interested was about characters facing evil, finding the strength to have the courage to fight said evil. The most memorable films were about strong characters, both protagonists and the antagonist counterparts, that can be reflective of the situations society faces no matter what period in time. There’s a reason why these tales are a classic and timeless.
I know, right! I was too young when I first saw it to understand, but she is especially disturbing because of how subtly manipulative she is, it really hits close to home, even for those who don't have friends or family members like that.
No surprise coming from PIXAR but isn't direct buy product of Disney @@kate2create738
@@Crazyashley42
That's kind of a slippery slope though. Sometimes, if you reveal too much about the villain, the magic starts to wear off a little and they just don't have the same gravitas. Best to just keep the mystery...mystery is very underrated these days.
Watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame like 2 days ago, on the opening sequence of Bells of Notre Dame, Frollo is shown to us as a villain with no redeemable qualities, showing that if it had not been for the priest interrupting him and threatening him with divine punishment, he would have thrown baby Quasimodo under the well. I literally teared up because of the eeriness and perfection of it, and to me, he is the perfect Disney Villain, no redeemable qualities whatsoever. Disney and Western animation in general will never be take risks like that anymore and that is honestly heartbreaking.
You just had to mention it, didn't you? Now I have to play Hellfire before even finish this video.
That opening is a work of true art.
"Raise the child, like if he was yours".
Fun fact: Disney’s version of Frollo is more evil than he was in the novel. In the book, Frollo took Quasimodo in at a young age out of the goodness of his heart, and isn’t as cruel to him as he is in the Disney film.
Just goes to show how Disney’s approach towards villain characters has shifted.
Also hiring a Shakespearean actor to execute the vocals in speaking and singing shows the respect they didn’t pick an actor for his brand they picked him because Tony Jay knows how to play complex characters.
I think we needed a secondary villain that is the opposite point of view of the king. While the king wants all wishes to be dictated and delivered by only him, this other villain could be on the side of unrestricted wishes, believing that everyone should follow their desires no matter how selfish and harmful those wishes can be. And then have our protagonist trying to find the middle ground of two clashing ideals.
I said before, but it could have been the forbidden magic book ITSELF. That book could have been elevated into a full villainous character and potentially could have made the movie much better
@@blinkowarner3117that is what I thought too, the book seems more villainous than the king.
@@blinkowarner3117so the book being the twist villain?
The only villain was asha. King magnifico was the hero of the movie
@@liberalistbat6352 I think disney should have made her a twist villain...wait no a twist hero that turns to a villain instead, mostly from falling into a stubborn rage of a naive brat. Of that I didn't get my grandfather wish granted and now I want revenge to rebel against the king. Because she was being bratty about it, when it seems her grandfather didn't seem concerned of his wish not being granted after 100 years. Besides he understands that the king has been busy trying to make sure to make the right choices for the kingdom. Also lets not forget that asha grandfather looks way more older than king magnifico. Plus having the so called princess main protagonist character turn evil, just because the king wasn't granting every wish. Would actually work better than having halfway through the movie paint the king who isn't wrong about wishes to be full evil right off the bat, no redemption. What the heck disney, he made a mistake forcefully. Plus I shockingly want to side with the so called villain because what he says is pretty much what Bruce almighty movie already warns everyone about grant all prayers or wishes can go bad if you don't use your keen eye and wits to watch out for the bad wishes and prayers. Because seriously not everyone in the kingdom is 100% good like asha claims. There has to be at least 6 scumbags somewhere in the kingdom in hiding. I mean come on the tangled series had an episode of where a villager in the kingdom didnt like rapunzel. To teach that not everyone is going to like you and thats fine. But the movie paints it like no everyone is all buddies and no one has evil intentions or are going to be terrible at what they wish for.
He was willing to teach Asha MAGIC. And since the king and queen don't seem to have children, Asha was likely also going to be the next queen. But as soon as she walks through the door, she has the GALL to ask for a personal favor? I wouldn't have given the wish to the ungrateful brat either. Did she even want to learn magic? Maybe if she hadn't immediately turned on and attacked the king, they could have gotten closer as she learned magic and just talked him into giving wishes back.
The King looked disappointed too, as soon as Asha ask that favour. I don't care what Disney and other delusional people say, Asha IS the real villainess.
She is selfish enough to start a rebellion just because the king didn't want to fulfil the ambiguous wish of her grandpa
@@alexandraclavijo8149
If Asha realised what she did was wrong after that encounter (probably when meeting the Star), it could be her attempting to fix what she did whilst Magnifico became more jaded as the people who Asha originally told go against him more despite all the good he’s actually done.
It would be a twist villain, but not any old twist; A Twist villain who wasn’t originally a villain, but instead just a slightly self-centred king who meant well being ‘twisted’ into a villain due to a mistake by the main character.
@@alexandraclavijo8149naw, too over sinplfied...both their lines of thinking were flawed an Asha is also pretty naive too so hard to call her a villain.
The plot is just STUPID. PERIOD. And being defeated by "song"???? From the Studio that hanged Clayton and sent a sword through Malificent
Star Giant says otherwise
A hero is a hero, but everyone loves a good villain
-Ferb, Phineas & Ferb
For me it's the false and misplaced morality. We aren't supposed to side with the villain just because they have a hard background doesn't mean we pass them for their sins. It's why villains from the Disney Renaissance and from the earlier installments like Cruella and Sher Kahn those were villains. Those were villains for the sake of just that. Been a villain. Cause Puss in boots 2 nailed it with it's villains.
Puss in Boots 2 had antagonists and a villain, tho. Magnifico was supposed to be an antagonist.
Just because a Villegas a sympathetic backstory doesn’t mean that they themselves are sympathetic characters.
How is it misplaced morality to feel bad for a character in a story? And you do realize just because some villains are sympathetic, that doesn’t mean the audience is supposed to side with them, right? Lotso from Toy Story 3 is an amazing example of this exact thing. Lotso had a sad backstory, but he was never portrayed as a character the audience should like, and I don’t think any of the modern examples of this trend in Disney films are either. Understanding why a character acts the way they do ≠ agreeing with them.
@@kyleinthejar6829 Exactly. A sympathetic backstory gives us insight into why they do what they do, but it does not automatically make them sympathetic.
Correct. Puss in boots has 3 villains and each a unique feeling. Goldilocks was originally a villain that is redeemable, Jack is unapologetically evil and not redeemable at all and also moves the plot along great, and Lobo is the fearful villain that the protagonist must overcome.
There are two ways I'd have taken Magnifico's character.
Evil route: During the early days of the kingdom and hid studies as a sorcerer, raiders threatened to destroy everything. His magic was too weak to protect everyone so he turned to dark magic (the book in the movie) to protect his people. It's stronger but comes with a higher price. He's left with a small piece of his heart that is corrupted and is the Hyde to his Jekyll The book is sealed away with magic and it helps keep the corruption in his heart at bay but he never tells anyone about it because he can hear the dark magic calling to him and taunting him. "I'm here for you like none other. Use me. Remember the power you had." And, "do you really think they'd still love you if they knew what you've done?" Something happens that frees the corruption and it overtakes him. Villain song: "What you've/My Sacrifice." Where he's fighting to resist the corruption but is ultimately overpwered. He can then be cures by the power of song and love.
---------- Or‐--------
Wise and caring leader who has learned from his mistakes of why he can't grant every wish there is. Asha becomes his apprentice and learns magic from him so she can take over as the wish granter. She still thinks every wish should be granted but their argument about it is still left at, "granting every wish can have dangerous consequences." Magnifico's called away to something before he can elaborate further. Asha goes ahead and grants several seemingly harmless wishs she was told wouldn't be granted. Chaos ensues and it's a disaster that Magnifico has to fix. I don’t know what I'd call his song but it would include the line, "this one wants to get the girl. Without magic, I help where I can. But to grant this wish, do I make her fall for him or make him her perfect man? All I know is at the end of the day, I've taken someone's free will away." Asha would be the one to learn a lesson of repsonability and duty in this version.
I liked your second idea, but I doubt that they'd let their new empowered girl boss Disney Princess learn a lesson from a male character.
Heck you could potentially combine your two ideas and have Asha's meddling inadvertently unleash the evil the King was trying to hold back.
Love the second version. But what if you combined them? Mabye some of the wishes she grants threatenes Magnificos power as king and he looses overall control of the kingdom. He gives in to the evil just to maintain power and control. He takes away free will (and at this point they could have some cool 2d animation like they promised everyone could be black and white to reflect that thier free will was taken).
At the end Asha fixes everything and becomes ruler but had to come to terms with the fact that power comes at a price.
That song lyric is a great balance of reference and relevance to the story! If only the actual songs in Wish had lyrics like those...
Both versions are really good, but I love the first version more. It would give us the scary evil Disney villain archetype we know and love while also making Magnifico a sympathetic character as well as having his transition into villainy make more sense.
It’s odd that Disney is struggling with this evil character vs. understandable motivations thing, because if you look at their past villains that REALLY feel despicable (I’m talking Frollo, Scar, Gothel, etc.), they’re all made scarier by the fact that we understand their motivations and see where they’ve gone wrong. They don’t suffer from a lack of complexity, but they all mirror ways that people can become evil in real life (seeing people as objects, hungering for power with no real desire to use it for good, viewing yourself as morally pure to justify your prejudice and harm). Like, those are very real, grounded, horrifying motivations. Don’t get me wrong, I love the “I’m evil and I love to be evil” villains too-I’m just saying it’s weird for Disney to struggle with this “complex villain” thing now, when they’ve done it so well in the past!
Great video!
Edit because I just thought of something: They’ve even done a good redeemed villain character before - John Silver! So maybe they can do it, they just actually have to put in the legwork to make us understand their motivations instead of tacking on a sob story to make us feel bad
Now that I think about it, how many Disney villains actually are evil just because they love being evil? Even Maleficent, despite declaring herself to be evil, still had an understandable (if incredibly petty) motivation for cursing the kingdom.
Blame the disney executives for that while wish is still in production. Let the writers do their jobs and it annoys me that disney execs (or other animation studios) tries to tamper the story or they don't see the good potential of the story telling what the writers could write.
Magnifico could work - he asserts that all he's doing is protect his people, but clearly he sees them as beneath him, and they're ungrateful if they should ever question his methods. He cannot be argued with, as it would imply he can be wrong, a fact he cannot accept. A true narcissist through and through.
@@Duothimir In the Sleeping Beauty Fairy Tale the witch curses the princess and thats it, you don't see the witch again. Maleficent is based on the witch, but her role is far more expanded.
We have lost sight of what is actually good, and thus have also lost understanding of what is truly evil
9:49 I agree. The villain song This Is The Thanks I Get is a villain song that sounds upbeat and makes you want to get up and dance but thats it. It doesn't sound very evil, powerful, menacing, sinister or scary like the classic og villain songs. Examples:
1. BE PREPARED from the Lion King was very big, powerful, menacing, catchy, sinister & scary in a fun way, but not only that, some of the words Scar used were high-level SAT words.
2. POOR UNFORTUNATEL SOULS: starts of as sweet sounding beautiful but later becomes more powerful. Between it Ursula makes a deal with Ariel in trading her voice.
3. FRIENDS ON THE OTHER SIDE: Another deal making song but a bit more sinister, scary & threating.
4. HELLFIRE: The darkest, rawest, most powerful, menacing & scariest villain song.....and even very TABOO
Songs about the villain can be great too. To this day, Cruella DeVille’s song from 101 Dalmatians is one of my favorites. Sometimes even the way the other characters talk about the villain is enough to communicate exactly how the audience should feel about them.
Yup the song could have been good if they stuck to his more deeper low tone voice.
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Magnifico was clearly an antagonist forced into the villain role. There could've still been a villain, via giving a face to the source of Magnifico's trauma.
This was Disney's chance to redefine what they consider Disney animation, by having their Spider-Verse or Puss in Boots 2 moment. Telling a deep story, with complex characters and experimental animation. But no, they played it safe and failed... again.
Same with Raya, with all these stupid side characters as jokes rather than focusing on the themes and characters. Should've been about the Raya's relationship with her rival as the centerpiece of the conflict.
You make the rivalries compelling, and you wouldn't have people desperate for a classic Disney villain.
Magnifico should have been the hero and Asha the villain
I'd even settle on him being a fallen hero. Someone who wants to do right but hurts others in the process, kinda like Miguel. A shame he just ends up being so mishandled, but what can you do when Disney wants to set up its "Cinematic Universe"
@@liberalistbat6352 THIS.
@@liberalistbat6352 I wish they went for more of a sorcerer's apprentice style where asha gets something wrong and they work together to solve it
The "I'll let you live here for free" could have been continued with "and I'd even rent you a bed.", giving it irony and hinting at the underlying greed.
I think villains are still irreplaceable in many stories. If you need to make miscommunication, the heroes stupidity and similar things to cause conflict and tension, then a villain would have solved it.
For example our hero gets imprisoned, because he did something stupid or he gets imprisoned, because the villain has caused it. In the first scenario we get the impression that he deserved it. In the other scenario we feel sympathy for him.
A hero is only as good and strong as the villain who they must overcome
I honestly believe Magnifico was supposed to a twist/sympathetic villain at first, with him seemingly super nice until his snap at Asha and troubled vague backstory
But either the writers or executives nixed that because they saw audiences getting sick of those kinds of villains
So they changed him, but it was too little too late by then anyways
I miss the days of old Disney Villains, like Scar, Ursurla, Goston, Frollo, Jafar, Clayton, Cruella Deville, Hades, Sykes, Yzma, Malificent and Dr Facilier. Those villains were memorable because they were evil and had great personalities.
Don’t forget Mother Gothel
And the guy from atlantis
That guy is Lyle Tyberius Roarke
Don’t forget Captain Hook.
I personally wouldn’t have minded if Magnifico was a redeemed villain, maybe his whole view on wishes could be that granting them Willy nilly isn’t a great idea, and sees the wishing Star as potentially harmful, so he goes to the book and tries to use it to stop the Star. That makes him have clearer motivations and better writing imo
Or you could have it that there was no villain - just trouble that was born from a misunderstanding, but things work out in the end and a lesson is learned.
What I was personally hoping for (when hearing Asha was aiming to be Magnifico's apprentice) was that Asha would see Magnifico's method of handling the wishes as evil /cruel and take it upon herself (with Star's help) to see to it that those wishes are returned to the people of Rosas...only to find out the hard way that allowing people to make their own wishes come true may not be as pure/righteous as she thought (i.e. - the kingdom falls into chaos) - leaving Magnifico to help Asha makes things right. Asha learns that even the most innocent of wishes can cause a world of harm, and Magnifico take her on as his apprentice to teach her how to determine what a safe wish is (i.e. - one that would benefit the kingdom as a whole) and ones that should be avoided (i.e. - selfish/nonsensical/dangerous ones that cold cause mayhem).
Disney would never make a movie where a female character is wrong, and a male character has to correct her
@@nerychristian Fr they will never
@@hassansulaiman3848 Imagine if Hollywood did a remake of the TV show Father Knows Best
@@nerychristianIn Zootopia Judy and Nick corrected each other.
Oh my gosh! I can’t believe you finally revealed yourself! I always thought we were just going to hear your voice and never see you what you look like when you’re not recording.
I feel like the problem with the Modern Disney Villains is that they’ve been trying to fit with the times, but in the end they don’t know what to do with Disney Villains.
Some Villains like Hans and Bellwether shouldn’t even be Disney Villains but because Disney wanted to subvert everyone’s expectations, they had to be. The problem with them being Disney Villains is that the twist comes out of nowhere. If it was already established that Hans and Bellwether had ulterior motives that could’ve given their twist more nuance, but it doesn’t.
Other Modern Disney Villains only exists because they were made to be villains. King Candy was already evil so the big reveal that he’s Turbo enhances him. While Calihan was evil because Big Hero 6 was a Marvel movie, so of course there had to be a Marvel Supervillain.
But aside from Magnifico, King Candy, and Mother Gothel… the Modern Disney Villains are just forgettable.
Since Encanto, Raya, and Strange Worlds didn’t need a villain… than Frozen, and Zootopia don’t even need one either.
I understood Bellweather and Hans' motivations. It made sense to me.
No, “Zootopia” does need a villain - or at least an antagonist. The whole film is a buddy-cop crime mystery where they’re trying to uncover the true mastermind behind all the crimes being committed. It wouldn’t make sense for the film to be completely villainless.
I think the underlying issue is that the film needed more clues to indicate that Bellwether was the culprit. She has a reason for why she’s doing it and we do see her being belittled by predators in all of her other appearances, but I think it was the lack of given screen-time that made her reveal feel seemingly random. Like, maybe if she were built up more, like a councilor or one of Judy’s confidants in addressing the prejudices she herself faces, that would’ve allowed them more time to lay the seeds in preparation.
I think it's because they don't want to show old people, stepparents, and people having to do underhanded things to get a leg up as evil. Just something I noticed.
Ernesto De La Cruz is great and was a good example of a twist villain, imo
@@courtneycherry5582im so sick of people saying "oooh disney hates step parents" bullshit. It was literally in two movies and never showed up again.
That thumbnail of Frollo and Scar glaring at Magnifico is brilliance. 😆
The upbeat music of Magnifico's villain song, or at least what little audio you showed us, do not go well with the atmosphere of the scene. It's like if you took either the goosestepping-hyenas clip or the climax of "Be Prepared", muted it, and then played "I Just Can't Wait to be King" in the background. It feels very dissonant and out of place. I don't know if the rest of the song is like that, since I never saw the film or heard the song, but that is what I got from what little clips you showed us of the song.
It's clear the new people behind the Disney studio do not understand their own audience anymore or why everyone used to love Disney back in 80's, 90's, 2000's, and even before the 21st century. And the lyrics of their new "I Want" songs and Villain songs just do not even compare to masterpieces such as "Out There", "Hellfire", "Part of Your World", "Poor Unfortunate Souls", or the aforementioned "I Just Can't Wait to be King" and "Be Prepared". It's depressing to see the state this studio is currently in.
How empires fall...
All i could really think during this movie was "damn that escalated quickly" cause honestly it just felt like we were jumping to ideas without connecting them properly
When Disney made cruella a woman who wanted to take the fur of 101 Dalmantians to make a coat, a tragic character with sob backstories and the Dalmatians as the reason her mother died... I knew it was over, there's no more Disney villains and there's nothing we can do about it. Now Disney movies only have half baked antagonists that we have to feel sorry because they had a sad backstory.
I didn't see Cruella, but I've heard about it, and I agree. I think OUAT did a great Cruella. They had set up a precedent for villains being misunderstood and then redeemed, so you expect that for Cruella, and they even make you think that's what they're doing by giving her a seemingly abusive mother. But then it turns out that Cruella is just psychotic and always has been even as a child, using a poisonous flower to kill her own father (not even a stepfather so there's not even a "I won't let anyone replace my daddy" angle), so her mother ripped up the garden and kept her locked away to protect people from her.
Just say it like it is Aldone, they're cowards. Disney is afraid of making pure evil villains again, it's like they're afraid they'll step on someone's toes or something, that people will criticize them for being one-dimensional or boring. Which is a bunch of baloney cause Jack Horner proves how much people love pure evil villains. I honestly think it's projection at this point, they write an evil character but add a sad backstory or some other explanation for their actions because this is the Disney execs seeing themselves in the villains and wanting everyone to forgive them or feel bad for them. Wish is such a mess it borders on self-parody.
It's not that they are afraid of stepping on someone's toes. It's the latter! These Disney execs are definitely villains 100%!
They aren't afraid of stepping on any toes if those toes are white, male, and cis-gendered. But then, they know that the villains are often the coolest and most beloved part of a franchise, so making your evil person into a class of people you're openly allowing hate and bigotry against runs the risk of creating an icon for those people to sympathize with, subverting your message that they're all racially unforgivably undeserving of any kind of representation.
I honestly think the latter idea is ridiculous. Like, do you really think Bob Iger watches Aladdin and thinks “THIS CARTOON VILLAIN WHO WANTS TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD IS JUST LIKE ME FR”
Like, do you think every bad person in the world looks at Jafar or Maleficent and go “That’s me! I’m super evil! Mwahahaha!”
Real people don’t think like that. Even absolute rich bastards don’t think like that. Bob Iger doesn’t think of himself as an evil scheming monster, he thinks of himself as a CEO doing his job, which is to make as much money for the company as possible.
Like, I hate the Disney execs as much as anyone else but god, y’all really need to get a better understanding of how real people operate.
@@cartoonishidealism582 I concede I am using hyperbole but you can't expect me to look at what they did in cases like Lloyd and Ollie Jones and NOT think that Disney has become the villains they created.
@@cartoonishidealism582 Jafar happens to be my favorite Disney character.
The problem is that in many cases "Evil" is simply whatever society decides it doesn't like at any given time. Sometimes, the justifications are easy to disassociate from. And sometimes, they're terribly relatable. When society itself decides you're evil just for being inside a category, then the act of being evil becomes an expression of defiance and spite. Shakespear himself acknowledged this hundreds of years ago.
"I had rather be a canker in a hedge than a rose in his grace, and it better fits my blood to be a disdain of all than to fashion a carriage to rob love from any; in this, though I cannot be said to be a flattering honest man, it must not be denied that am but a plain-dealing villain. I am trusted with a muzzle and enfranchised with a clog, therefore I have decreed not to sing in my cage. If I had my mouth, I would bite; if I had my liberty, I would do my liking: in the meantime let me be that I am and seek not to alter me."
For many today who are being told they are all the problems in this country, because they are one group or another... where the institutions that once fought for equality now seek plain power over those they've decided deserve it, regardless of background, history, or individual merit... those people are now being caged and denied liberty. And so, this sentiment begins to ring and resonate. If those who scorn me for the color of my face, and say I can only suffer for the crimes of the past, who will scream down any argument or reason of nuance and march against cultures and heritages because they are crassly included under the banner of "whiteness", if these people will declare that I must be evil...
Then let me be evil.
Honestly point of being villain is that we are meant to hate them like scar and frollo who are among the darkest most evil and diabolical villains that modern day Disney sorely lacked
I couldn't agree with you more this is also a problem when it comes to other studios like DreamWorks and illumination granted that are a few exceptions but most of their villains are usually comedic it's rare that we get a villain that is menacing probably because writers are too afraid to go dark with their villains
I want more films that shuffle between tragic villains and evil villains. Regardless of their backgrounds, should be satisfying (or tragic depending on the story) to see fail.
These villains don’t feel evil enough anymore. The more evil they are the more satisfying their downfall is. Also they NEED a powerful villain song to show their dark intent.
Pitch for Magnifico as the villain (I haven't seen the film, this is going off the trailers):
We open with a storybook read by Chris Pine, where the audience see the book describe a story about Rosas, a great kingdom ruled by a noble family, each page rewritten (green magic alters words). This rewrite presents Magnifico as a great sorcerer who married into the kingdom, and now grants one persons wish once a month. Now, in present day, we meet Asha, Magnifico's assistant for the last two years (she is forced bubbly and fun in public, but becomes more jaded outside). She still pushes for Magnifico to grant her Grandfather's wish, which Magnifico lightly turns her down. She goes to get the wish, but stumbles onto Magnifico's true scheme. The Queen has been locked in the dungeon for years, the one Asha has seen being a magical illusion. Magnifico explains that he was once a travelling wizard, who saw Rosas an opportunity to gain power. Magnifico is presented as a scheming con-man determined to maintain his power. When Asha finds the star, which grants peoples needs, rather than the selfish wants that Magnifico grants, Magnifico sees that as a threat. He manipulates the traitor friend through promising to grant his wish (we actually see that), and uses humorous chaos the star causes (it grants everyones wishes, causing magical hi-jinx) to turn the city against Asha. We can show this through three songs: the opening song trying to establish Asha but is hijacked by people gushing over Magnifico; the wishing ceremony presenting him as a rock star type; the villain song where Magnifico describes needing to keep his power by destroying the star, maybe with him laughing about how stupid wishing on a star actually is (maybe to the imprisoned queen)- something like "all you need is me" or "I choose what you want". Magnifico uses the people and his flashy (yet mostly useless) magic to try and get the star (a good commentary about CEO's pandering to the masses giving people superficial, appealing things rather than what they need, trying to stamp out any competition). He is evil at the start, and evil and the end. Asha needs to learn that while Magnifico is evil, the star isn't entirely good, as sometimes, people need to fight for their wishes, rather than hope someone else does it for them (again, a very nice lesson about self-reliance vs massive corporations). Asha needs to cast a spell to return the star to the sky, Magnifico tries to destroy it. This can lead to a final battle on top of the highest point in the city, where the citizens finally see Magnifico's true colours as he tries to kill Asha. Asha returns the star to the sky, Magnifico loses. Two potential endings:
1. Magnifico is imprisoned (either in the mirror, or just in general) and tries to plead with the city guard and the citizens to release him in exchange for granting all their wishes, but ultimately is still arrested.
2 (my preferred). We get a return to the classic Disney villain death sequence. Magnifico attempts to grab hold of the star as it returns to the sky, in a desperate attempt to destroy it. However, it burns his hands/he misses it, causing him to fall past the tower and off a cliff, or just to his death (alternatively, he gets dragged into the sky forever with the star, or something like that)
I LOVE THIS!!!
@@blinkowarner3117 thank you
Thank you for making the movie better.
@@Someone69769 No problem.
Not a bad rewrite.
Is it me or do newer Disney films feel more specifically aimed at children than the classics?
Yeah old Disney made family movies that people of all ages could enjoy, now they just make kids movies
Yeah. Children aren’t dumb. My parents watched the older films with me as a kid and they still remember the villains for being rememberable as they are
5 year olds or under want toys, so that's the age bracket childrens movies are aiming for.
Given that tweens really no longer exist, it feels like movie companies have no idea on how to find a balance between who they're aiming a movie at.
Magnifico went from a villain with depth to a flat villain in 15 minutes. I loved his potential to be a sympathetic villain with a humorous side, but they really squandered his potential.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted him to be both the sympathetic but misguided antagonist and the cackling despicable madman at the same time
@@matityaloran9157The latter psrt only worls reañly if its on a descent and not all at once.
Except Magnífico didnt reslly had a descent to full villainy, he just suddenly got villainous for squat.
@@memecliparchives2254 Exactly
I think we need to talk about Disney parent-child relationships because I feel that they need to change.
I am curious what is problem?
@@animezilla4486they're always dead
@@Cardinal_claw oh
There are many Disney movies were the hero's parents aren't dead.
I might get jumped for this but I don’t think the lack of villains is the problem when it comes with new Disney movies. I think it’s just the story are boring and poorly written. You can have a one dimensional villain, a twist villain, or a sympathetic villain. They aren’t the problems themselves just the way they are written or how the story are written.
I think you're spot on.
I think we have lost sight of what makes an actual true and good person, and thus have also lost what it means to be evil. Relativism undermines good stories.
Welcome to Disney, Where dreams go to die.
I still haven't watched the movie. But hearing all this, there's one very simple way to make the villain work. He lies
And you reveal it at the mid of the movie and not the last third. Explain that people will say whatever they feel you need to hear in order to remain in power...
Oh, wait. That DOES reflect Disney a bit too much, doesnt it?
I think this is one of the better opportunities for a villain that has a good point but bad methodology. The way it’s set up Magnifico can grant wishes, but in order to get the magic to grant the wishes he needs to harvest the energy of other wishes, which destroys them and renders their wisher unable to remember them (so it’s like they never had that wish to begin with). That could bring up a moral dilemma: is it OK to grant one person’s wish if it means destroying multiple other people’s wishes? Or is it better for some wishes to simply never have existed at all (like we can probably all think of a few) in which case it would be good to sacrifice them to give life to other wishes? You could set up a scenario where Magnifico had thought to destroy the bad wishes to harvest energy to make the good wishes come true but then got paralyzed by having too many good wishes that he didn’t want to destroy which leads to the start where he doesn’t seem to be granting wishes anymore. Then he finds out about the wishing Star and by golly that’s a source of near infinite wish energy so he could use it to grant everyone’s wishes, but that would destroy the Star and we like the Star because it’s the cute little mascot character that’s friends with the protagonist.
Good concept.
There would then be the possibility of turning him either into a confused character, which, wanting to do good, could commit evil, or a poser, who, wanting to be seen as "good," stoops to being an arrogant person to whom everything is supposed to go according to him.
Your version is actually pretty interesting.
Could potentially have a bit of a slippery slope kind of situation, where he starts out destroying bad wishes, then running out of those starts moving on to incompatible wishes (for example, two guys wanting to marry the same gal, or two people wanting to open the same kind of shop, or a husband wishing some different direction for his family than the wife does... that kinda thing, situations where granting one wish just makes the other impossible), then descend into where he apparently is in the movie, deciding to only grant wishes he likes or somehow benefit him.
Could even show how this selection process is starting to take its toll on his mind, either going a little crazy having to process the outcomes and worthiness/unworthiness of so many wishes or starting to think himself as a deity with the power to make these choices for people.
Villains are the best part of any Disney Movie.
Not anymore
@@TheYoungGeninSasukeI would say “not every”. Villains were amazing back in the day
We can only hope that their next villain is more like one of the classic villains.
Same
I agree.
You know what they should have done?? Made the wife the second villain.
Magnifico can still be selfish or whatever his issue is and then when his wife takes the book and turns out to be worse than him, he gets that lil redemption thus satisfying the generational trauma and the legitimate villain goal they wanted
I enjoyed Wish, but for once, I think they developed a pretty redeemable villain, but for some reason just went at the end of the movie to be like, “Nope! No reasonable redemption arch for him. He’s screwed.” I wish that they developed him more and actually show more of his relationship with the people so we and the audience can see more of his loving side and why the people are so devoted to him. Instead, we just get told he’s a great king, instead of shown. They missed the first rule of storytelling.
That's because disney is screwed, disney allows activist and political people to dictate and control of what to put out on their movies. I was looking forward to this movie until i saw the clip of how king magnifico explains why he doesn't grant all wishes. I can tell at that moment something wasn't right. There is a video of an animator that i saw who confess what has been happening to both disney and DreamWorks. For now DreamWorks is okay because of puss n boots and is doing better than disney, but only time will tell when they will fall like disney is doing now
They could've shown and tell. The king shows how good he is and the people say how good he is in response in what they see.
@@spookykatelyn2161 Bruh if there were activists at Disney they wouldn’t be writing movies
They’d be fucking unionising
@@cartoonishidealism582 believe me, I agree with you on that, but it's clear that modern disney has lost all sense of making great animation and great stories and they lost all the talent, creativity in the Studios, they don't want everyone to know that. Besides there are writer strikes going on. I won't be surprised if animators go on strike next since disney fired more employees because the movie wish failed.
the side-eyes in the thumbnail are everything
Honestly, imagine how much better Frozen 2 would've been if it had an actual villain and committed to the darker tone. Maybe a political adversary towards Arendelle who could try and manipulate the events of the first film to make Elsa look bad. I mean think about it. I'm sure Elsa's giant blizzard snowstorm didn't just affect Arendelle. And neighboring kingdoms may not have had the context for why this storm happened. Weaselton, Hans, or someone else with a reason to have a grudge against Elsa and her family could've easily gone back home and misrepresented the facts to whomever is in power, and said Elsa caused this freak accident as a threat or declaration of war. There's your conflict, cue plot.
Or maybe have the antagonist be someone with similar magical powers like Elsa, but you know, evil instead. The first film was originally gonna have Elsa be the villain anyways, maybe this new person can be the dark parallel to Elsa. Perhaps this person is born into a royal family in a kingdom with authoritarian values and is used by their parents as a weapon and means to an end to threaten settlements, towns, and even other kingdoms into submission. They eventually grow up and inherit the throne. During their reign, they are able to sense something about the storm is unnatural and have their suspicions validated when an undercover ambassador/spy who attended Elsa's coronation tells them about Elsa's powers manifesting during the event. They decide a rival is a threat to their position as a monarch and start a war. There your conflict, cue plot.
They could've even kept the spirit of the first film about the sisterly relationship between Anna and Elsa by having Elsa start to push Anna away again, not because of her powers but because being a queen is busy work and she doesn't have as much free time to spend with her or something, and this is only exacerbated by the brewing conflict on the horizon.
There's so many routes they could've gone with the movie honestly, and they didn't.
My idea for Frozen II was to make 3 new characters that represent the other classic elements; fire, earth, air, and have them find Elsa and her being one part of a quartet of gifted elemental children that carry the elements (seasons?) within them. The main conflict would be that the other 3 were ousted from their respective homes for being "different" and formed a group together, while Elsa overcame her personal conflict with her family and kingdom, and was unique in that, as a princess, she was lucky to have more authority and importance.
Have the girl representing the "fire" element essentially be the "leader" pushing for Elsa to leave her family and kingdom and come with them to truly discover herself and be free in her powers, rather than having to restrain herself and govern others, but have the fire one be a bit of a supremacist because of how she and the others were treated; she thinks they're all better than normal humans and that they should essentially get to rule and dictate, only using their powers for themselves, or whatever they want to, even if it hurts others.
So Elsa's conflict would be wanting to connect with people like herself, but also loving her family and kingdom, and feeling torn between the two. She would obviously ultimately choose the latter, and maybe have that aspect of her make her even stronger because love gives us greater power, or something. Have a fun big battle between them all with Elsa ultimately winning and bringing earth and air to her side.
King magnifico should have been the Hero. That stupid girl should have been revealed to be the villain. Wanting everyone's wishes to come true that's insane
I want what it looked we were getting in the first trailer where the king wisely points out that not every wish can be granted.
It would have been better had Asha been a naive idealistic girl who didnt get the wisdom in what the king said and had to learn it the hard way by fixing her mistake with the Kings help.
But nope, hes evil and shes somehow right despite her ideals being very detrimental in reality.
Songs that sound like they are typical Pop songs you hear on the Radio has been typical in Disney musicals the past two decades, and I dislike most of them.
Actually My Little Pony Friendship is Magic did this concept better. In season 4 i think? Starlight is a unicorn who can take the cutie marks from the other ponies. She was running what was supposed to be a utopian town where everyone is the same and happy. These cutie marks are what give them their core identity as its based on their special talent/skill. Without their marks they are functional but still hallow and cant do their special ability anymore like sing or ski. When Starlight is defeated it was explained that she did this all to her fellow friends because she wanted them to all be unified and that when she was younger a friend got their mark before her and then left town. She didnt want that to happen again.
She was meant to be sympathetic and they balanced a good job of you understanding her motives without her being outright evil.
Disney needs to pick. Either make them sympathetic with real reasons or make them evil with a compelling motive. Not this wishy washy back and forth crap
It was Season 5 when Starlight Glimmer was introduced, and yeah, MLP did this type of thing much better. They also gave her a really decent redemption arc over the course of several seasons, exploring how she overdoes magical solutions to avoid deep-rooted issues she has about friendship.
Starlight was a passable villain at best, her motive is one of the most idiotic I've ever seen, and her redemption is iffy. I've seen worse, but I've definitely seen better. Thakfully, once she's on the right side, she gets better with each appearance.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Aldone’s face before, damn…he’s cute! 😳
"This is the Thanks I Get?" feels like the ultimate Nice Guy Song
I knew this would be crap, no news... Everything Disney announces in grandiosity ends up being a grand failure, instead. Disney is gone. Watch new animation studios arise and eat them all alive. It's what history teaches us too: empires rise and fall in full circles.
At least the new villain isn't a twist villain, that's good and hopefully they'll get back to doing villains
If Zootopia 2 will ever introduce the birds and reptiles, I'm hoping for a reptile villain who has a deep extreme hatred for all mammals
I'd love to see a take on a cop movie like Lethal Weapon where we know who the villain is from minute one, like a classic action villain as an animal.
I don't know, reptilian villains are so tired nowadays.
I'd prefer if it was someone else, reptiles have been villanized too much.
@@lk_3099 Agreed there. A bird could be fun though. An Owl as a crime boss, or an Eagle/falcon/general bird of Prey.
Or maybe a fish or an insect?
@@alpyki2588 nah fish and insects are the only animals that didn't evolved and they're the only source of protein for the predators
Personally I think this should have been more a long the line of a Sorcerer's apprentice storyline. The King safeguards the ability to grant wishes and the MC has to learn that not all wishes can or should be granted or chaos would happen.
I think mother gothel was the last good villain that Disney had. she actually made sense as a villain; she had a character arc, actual oppressive behavior, and character traits other than 'evil' or 'relatable', such as selfish, manipulative and charming. She has, in my opinion, one of the best villain songs: 'Mother Knows Best.' (Plus it gets revised later too) Thank you.
I'm really disappointed in Wish, especially when looking at rough drafts and artwork where the Queen would be as crazy like her husband..
We literally could have a villian couple that was like Gomez and Morticia.
😭😭 and Asha was dating the star who can turn humanoid and doesn’t talk
It could have been so good. Especially if they maintained their close relationship the entire time instead of hating each other in the end or something
Did anyone else think that it would be revealed Magnifico had actually bewitched the kingdom into thinking he had always been in charge and invented a fake sad backstory? The queen was actually the one who built the kingdom and was actually the ruler. A little like King Candy in Wreck it Ralph
King Magnifico was a great villain by modern standards. The modern era of disney villains were mostly suprise villains with the exception of Mother Gothel. But he still doesn't stand as strong as the legendary og classic villains like Scar, Frollo, Hades, Jafar & Maleficent
That damns him with faint praise
I mean in a way mother Gothal is kinda a twist villain, not to the audience thought but to Rapunzel. This is considered a type of twist villain.
@@thecookiecrumbsinpercyshai8685 Not quite. The main character trusting someone we the audience know to be a villain is a dramatic irony, not a plot twist
@@thecookiecrumbsinpercyshai8685By that logic, Scar, Jafar, Ursula, and Frollo could all be considered twist villains.
turbo is a perfect twist villain
It’s one of those moments where we just plead for things to go back to how they were before.
When Disney used to tell good stories, like how the Disney Renaissance did.
Personally, I think King Magnifico was actually my favorite character in Wish. However, they definitely could have done even more with him (and Asha), especially when it comes to his tragic backstory. There are a few brief mentions of it, but (like you said in the video) they never explain it in depth.
Oh my gosh. Their narrative for every film for the past decade has been the same thing, “Let the old ways die.” And now hearing the new villain is another take on this just bores me to my soul.
When Wish came out, i made 3 similarities between King Magnifico & Frollo:
1. Both of them start off already being in power. Magnifico was a king while Frollo was a judge
2. Both of them start off their songs boasting how "benevolent" & "good" they are.
3. Both of them want to capture and execute the heroine of the movie.
It’s true that King Magnifico had a tragic backstory, but he wash portrayed as a sympathetic character.
Yesterday I watched a CZcams video about The Rescuers
Madam Medusa is also a great villain with no redeeming qualities and really well animated and acted
I used to be a fan of Disney in the late 90s to 2010,
Nowadays? With how hypocritical they are?
Hope they'll keep losing customers.
Same. I lost interest when they started churning out all the damn live action remakes. Haven't been able to get excited for a Disney movie since.
@@taigalilly i completely boycotted them, ain't gonna give even a coin to the corrupted.
@@taigalilly elemental is sooo good
@@user-yw8ys4kq5x Elemental is Pixar
The more I hear about Wish, the more I liked Puss in Boots
You got the WISH t-shirt on.... 😂
I watched Puss in Boots 2, and yes to beat that dead horse again, you have three villains. The sympathetic one in Goldie, the unhinged one dimensional comedy yet still pure evil in Jack Horner and the terrifying, you can’t reason nor escape villain who’s 100% serious in Death.
Meanwhile Disney goes, hmm, twist villain or family generational trauma story or do we really have to have villains who are evil? Can’t they technically be right the whole time or be fighting for a good cause?
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Disney will never top Frollo when it comes to villains. Ever. A true villain is someone who perpetrates evil acts against you while genuinely believing that they're the good guy, AND they'll attempt to gaslight you at the same time into believing that you deserved what they did to you. Frollo is the superior villain because he's a perfect reflection of the worst real life evils of humanity. Also Hellfire is the best villain song of all time, change my mind.
Hell another Hades or Yzma would be nice.
King Magnifico wasn't exactly the villain that we were expecting. Even so, it was nice to have a proper Disney villain for the first time since Gothel. The song wasn't perfect either, but I think Chris Pine sings it very well
Hearing that the Queen was supposed to be evil as well, that would've been a cool way to go and something actually different from the same ol same Disney.
Magnifico himself should only have the ability to take people's wishes and either use them for himself or fullfil the wisher's wish. For example if a person wishes that they could fly, then he could either steal their wish for himself or give them the ability to fly. He could hoard these wishes in a vault until he needs to use them. The more wishes he steals, the more insane he becomes.
I am over animated films having celebrity voices. It tells me that the stories are not strong enough without “names” attached. It also pushes audiences away who may not like these celebrities. I don’t like Chris Pine so I will not watch Wish. If they picked voice actors or lesser known actors this would not happen. Also the animation style from Wish just looks bad.
@@GregJamesMusic Yes! One of the best villain voices of all time. Pat Carroll is another great example.
Maybe it's my own trauma lens, but I loved this movie and especially Magnifico. He strikes me as a cult leader. He's super charismatic, handsome, just a big ol' "nice guy" who tells you that if you just basically give him your soul you won't have any worries anymore and can live happily and blissfully ignorantly ever after. I mean, how would they even know to care about ehat they're missing? And like any good cult leader, they always have good reasons for their savior complexes, sometimes very tragic backgrounds, think Jim Jones. Maybe if they were more explicit in showing different town members and Asha's friends or family having doubts but getting corrected, go missing, etc some real Ba Sing Se stuff it might have sold it more. That's where Disney needed to go all in. But idk, it seemed clear to me. And my four year old twins loved and understood it. One turned to me and literally said "the king is scary, he pretends to be so nice, but he's just taking everyone's power so that he can only have it himself. He wants to be the only one, and they need to stop him" right after she saw him finally use the book. I'd say message well received, even if not perfectly delivered 😊
Agreed, it was very clear. They nailed the portrayal of a narcissist. Reminds me a little of my narcissistic father, of a cult leader, and - speaking as an ex-Christian who used to be very religious - God of the Bible. I like Magnifico as a villain, it's really a shame that so many people are disappointed in him.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades Yes, to everything you said. Sadly I can relate to your every word. 😓 I think a lot of exchristian/exreligious/excult members can see this portrayal for what it is. Seeing my girls define the behavior of a narc and to stay away without having to go through it is more knowledge so many of us never had. So bravo to the writers for that 👏🏼😔
He uses a big book of manipulative magic that teaches him how to crush their hopes/souls and fuel himself to further isolate and control his citizens/victims. That's not like pastors at all 🥴
Or the all powerful sky daddy who doesnt answer you because "reasons" and you better still worship or else. So much in this movie...
I prefer Asha's actual sky daddy🥲
@@nekoniji13The funny thing is that some Christians can see the similarities and are offended by this movie, claiming it's anti-God 😂 I saw one video like this, gave me a good laugh. How these people can see their deity's similarity to a cartoon villain and not question if there could be something wrong with their religion, is beyond me.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades I KNOOOWW!!! The sad truth, if I think about what my view would be if I were still Christian, is I have to defend this jerk because after all he made us and can do what he wants and even if we don't like it tough cookies because he'll burn us forever in conscious torment. 🥲
This movie isn't anti-spiritual IMO. Asha literally prayed to the universe and her father in heaven, and was blessed with the light/enlightened to follow the light given to us all to free ourselves. It's more gnostic and anti-religion, or what OG Christians would've been anyway 😅. Suggesting that you're always connected to that wholeness, and that you don't need a middle man to have access to the divine, is a powerful message🥰
(Or its Lucifarian...light bearing and all that...even though Jesus is the light bringer who literally enlightens you with truth. Just like the serpant. But hey that's too much thinking. Thinking bad. 🤫)
I got so mad when I saw the thumbnail, it said Disney's villain problem, it had SCAR AND FROLO ON IT!? AUGH, why do you put Scar, Frolo and MAGNIFICO OF ALL PEOPLE, on a thumbnail together. But I am now satisfied, Magnifico being the problem not the good villains.
You didn't notice that Scar and Frollo were supposed to be giving Magnifico the side eye? 😆
@@thema1998Scar: Oh goodie...
It's definitely concerning that Disney has been giving bad moral lessons in their movies because of the bad villain writing. I really didn't like the final message in Raya, that you should forgive anyone just because they feel bad regardless of how terrible their actions were. That is a TERRIBLE message to teach kids, especially children who are the victims of bullying or have abusive parents. Not everyone deserves forgiveness, and it's bad to teach children that they do just because the bully feels remorse.
From what i gather from Wish, the king doesn't want to grant wishes because some of them have the potential to be very very evil, or at the very least destructive and chaotic. People SHOULDN'T get anything they want, just because they want it. If Asha just gives everyone their wish no matter what by the end of the movie, that would make a lot of people very miserable very quickly. That message encourages selfishness and entitlement, which is the last thing Americans should be encouraging lol we're already way too entitled.
It's frustrating because it's only these past two Disney Princess movies that have been like this. The Pixar movies have been really great at having an ambiguous villain but still teaching good moral lessons by the end of the film. Encanto showed how forgiveness can happen, but it's very nuanced and acknowledges that a lot of work needs to be done by BOTH sides involved. It's not impossible for modern Disney movies to be nuanced and have good messages, Disney just doesn't seem to care :/
I love your videos so much and I’m really hoping that you achieve your dream of becoming Disney’s CEO because you’re able to appreciate the art that goes into animation and storytelling and I think you’d be a wonderful CEO
We can point to Malificent live action as the point where Disney villains became toothless. Why can't a villain just be a villain? They have to be sympathetic and misunderstood all the time?
Disney has made the mistake of putting themselves in a bubble, a giant bubble wrapped bubble. The result is they have disconnected from the basics of the reality that connects everyone else, driven away those who actually provided the skills and talent that made Disney successful for being inclusive, ironic, and their storytelling is lacking because of it. Specifically the importance the characters have in the stories, and what is it that makes the audience root for some characters and be cautious of other characters. The characters are the features of these stories that the audience invest in, and when it the character arcs are not strong the story falls flat.
With the exception of a few, Disney animated films in the last 10 years has lacked a strong antagonist and a sloppy protagonist. Those in charge have gotten too lazy and arrogant to understand the methods they use are not working.
Losing to the power of song reminds me of cheesy shonen anime where they defeat the villain with the “power of friendship” trope.
I disagree completely on with the idea that 'This is the Thanks I Get' is a good song. It straight up sounds like Christian Pop. It sucks. It being upbeat isn't the issue. There have been good upbeat villain songs. This just isn't one of them.
Yeah shining and Gaston were fire songs
I'm not sure if it is because they have more creative freedom or what but for some reason you don't see this problem with Disney's tv animation when it comes to there villains like king Andrias from Amphibia or emperor Belos from the owl house and the same can be said about there heros too like Anne, Luz, and Lunella (Moon girl and Devil dinosaur) with each of them having distinct personalities
It's nice to see, with this video and others from many other channels, than my boy Turbo is climbing his way into classic Disney Villains
The King keeps doing that dancing move that reminds me of Encanto
It's wild to me how mid they let Magnifico be. He started out interesting then fell off a cliff. It's like Disney has decided their fans will accept anything and no serious effort needs to be made. Which is sad and annoying.
Wait, are the lyrics popping up in the background ACTUALLY part of the movie? Because that's been in every single video of this I've seen.
Nah those are from the official lyric videos. The actual movie clips haven’t been uploaded yet, besides “This Wish”, so this is basically the best we got for now aside from promo clips
King Magnifico was powerful, manipulative & evil, but not very scary. The only way he could ever be scary is by appearing in the mirrors of a funhouse.
He was indeed powerful, but in no manner manipulative, let alone evil. The King promised to keep the wishes of his people safe, not to grant them all. As Asha states in the opening sequence: '[The King] studied the magic of the world tirelessly and became a mighty sorcerer able to protect from harm or ill will, any wish given to him. And for the good and the worthy, even grant that wish.' Besides, the fact that he only grants the wishes that are good for Rosas does not make him a villain, it is common sense. A king has to think about the majority and the peace of his kingdom before the *individual* needs of the people living in it. His actions when he starts using the 'forbidden magic' is irrelevant since he is being possessed by it. The fact that he *might* be wrong about how he rules his Kingdom and that he made a mistake by using the 'evil' book does not make him a villain. Besides, it is hinted at that the king thinks the glow of light that appeared in the Kingdom when Star answered to Asha's whining was forbidden magic. He says: 'To summon such light would demand a spell so powerful' and then turns towards the plot-device book.
@@DylanM379 So you believed Magnifico's every word? That Asha's grandfather's wish could be dangerous, for example? Nah bro, the king only thinks he's the good guy here, but he's actually narcissistic and controlling. He granted some of the wishes to keep his power in the kingdom and be praised (practically worshipped). His intentions according to the storybook at the beginning were noble, but the power clearly corrupted him, made him possessive and greedy. The forbidden book just made it much worse, taking away any good left in him. It's like Asha argued, if the wishes wouldn't be granted, why not give them back as long as they're not actually dangerous (which as far as we saw none of them were)? What was the king really protecting them from? It's not like they were in danger in their owners' hearts. People without their wishes (keep in mind, they're not just plain wishes said on a whim, but more like biggest dreams and aspirations) forgot an important part of them so they became a shadow of themselves, which I suppose made them easier to control and manipulate. About Star's power - he was obviously afraid of something more powerful than himself, competition if you will.
@@M_JackOfAllTrades His wish was to inspire the next generation. It is too vague and I agree with the King. It is obvious he meant it. Inspiration is not always good.
Do you believe silly Asha when she says that taking wishes that were willingly given to the King for protection is not stealing? Do you believe her too when she prefers *stealing* the wishes from the King because she assumes that he would not listen to her if she tried to speak to him again. She is just too lazy and bad to do the right thing (even though, I know, it is but a silly plot device to stupidly rush the story forward). She could have gone to her buddy the hypocritical queen so that she may go and speak to her loyal husband on Asha's behalf. We know that he listens to his horrible wife after all.
I am going to try and go through all the nonsense of this film, and show why the King is a Tragic Hero, Asha a mere *fool,* and the queen a monstrous hypocrite.
I. In the opening sequence, when Asha tells the story of the Kingdom (which will prove that she already knows that not all wishes are granted *before* her interview with the King), she says: '[The King] studied the magic of the world tirelessly and became a mighty sorcerer able to protect from harm or ill will, any wish given to him. And for the good and the worthy, even grant that wish.' The latter sentence implies that even though he accepts any one to live in his orderly Kingdom, he is the one who decides who is good and worthy. The former sentence proves that the only thing he promises to his people is to keep their wishes safe.
II. Asha is the immature and impulsive protagonist of the story. She wants to become King Magnifico's apprentice ONLY to ask him to grant her grandfather's wish. Before her interview with Magnifico, Gabo implies that she only wants to be the King's apprentice because apprentices and their families more often than not have their wishes granted sooner than other people; Asha does not rebuke him (cheers to our dishonest 'heroine'!). The stupid thing is, it is later stated that only the King is allowed to use magic in his Kingdom; for what does he need an apprentice, then? ('How do you enjoy your script, sir?' 'Half-baked, please.')
III. When she is cringely shocked by the King because he does not grant all wishes (which she already knew), she stupidly says, in order to move the plot forward even though it should have been expanded upon, that the people of Rosas are good, as if the audience should accept that unconvincing statement without proof from a dishonest and hypocritical seventeen year-old girl, who is going to also become a thief later on haha The people gave their wishes to the King willingly Asha, taking them away from him without his consent *is* stealing! My apologies, I digress, I know, it is not her fault if she is a plot device personified: it is that of the incompetent screenwriters.
IV. The King is more heroic than Asha and he has such an unfair fate in the end. He starts using 'forbidden magic' (what an inspired plot device!) in order to protect his Kingdom and he cannot be saved from this dark magic because... the 'evil' book says so! Lazy writing! The worst part is, when he ends up being trapped in the mirror, he seems to be his normal self again, and the queen (his wife!) does not care at all! Let us punish the man who wants to protect the Kingdom he worked hard to build because he *wished* to keep people safe! They introduce us to the idea that all living things are connected to one another, and they do not redeem the King? It was the perfect opportunity, Disney!
V. The queen is the real villain of the story, she switches sides instead of trying to save her husband and feels no compassion towards him. She clearly knew how her husband ran his Kingdom and did not mind one bit until Asha started being a threat to Magnifico. She is nothing but a hypocritical opportunist. She turned on him the second he made a bad choice. She is the most pathetic character ever written in a Disney film.
VI. The people of Magnifico are so 'empty' without their wishes that they live happily without them--except for Simon who is sooo tired because he gave it away. If they can live happily without their desires, it is all that matters. From the King's perspective (and I mostly agree with him) wishes are burdens. When they give their wish *willingly* to Magnifico, they feel exhausted at first because of the burden that has been lifted off their shoulders, but once they get used to being free of it, they can be truly happy, whether the King grants them their heart's desire or not. He gives them the ability to let go, which most people are not willing to do, as if true happiness could exist while holding on to things like an old miser hoards his money because he unknowingly lives in fear of poverty and cannot/will not loosen his grip on that fear, and therefore contributes to his own unhappiness. Magnifico gives his people true freedom *for free* and they still find cause to complain?
VII. When the star-full but heartless people of Rosas sing together, it unites their souls together, and allows them to defeat Magnifico. But most of them have given their wish to him, have they not? What do I mean by that? If wishes were that important, the persons who had given them away would never have been powerful enough to defeat the King. Which means that they already have all they need inside of them: wishes are a plus, not a necessity to happiness or strength.
VIII. In the end, Star who does not grant wishes, but can only make non-human living things talk (silly plot device again, I have lost count), gives Asha a wand, to use magic, which unlike the King, is given to her, whereas Magnifico worked hard to achieve that in order to protect people. But now, the simple-minded girl with no heart and not wits, who ruined the life of a *good* man and kept prattling on about the fact that people had to make their dreams come true by themselves, will become a fairy godmother who grants wishes! May the gods help whoever crosses her path.
The last thing I would like to point out is that people's wishes change over the course of their lives, this is why a wish or a desire cannot define some one, because if it it did and was truly a part of one's soul, it would be immutable. Wishes are a plus, not who a person truly is.
To conclude, the story has not been thought through, Disney has no respect for their audience. The dialogues are plot-driven, almost none of them allows the characters to be developed in a satisfying manner. But of one thing, I am sure: The queen is an awful character; she deserves the same sympathy she showed the King when he most needed her. The King is not a villain, Asha is not a hero. Magnifico is a Tragic Hero, Asha is nothing but ashen stardust.
@@DylanM379 Hmm, I can see in your wording that you don't like Asha much, which is fair, but honestly, I agree with her on the wishes. Well, stealing is stealing, but in this case it's justified. They are not the king's possession, they belong to their rightful owners, just as they would if no magic was involved. Giving them back makes it possible for the people to pursue them on their own, as they should in the first place. Giving them to the king to grant was the owners' mistake, and by the end of the movie they all learned their lesson.
Sorry but your argument about inspiration is not very convincing, just like Magnifico's wasn't (sounded like an excuse, or paranoia). Speaking of vague, lol.
The king is a textbook narcissist. I don't know why you seem to hate the queen so much, she only betrayed him after he turned 100% evil after messing with the book and basically threatened her.
Look, while I love a good debate, I don't have any more time to discuss this with you, so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Every person's perception of a character can be different (apparently much different :D) and that's fine. Movies and other works of fiction are subjective.
0:04 a broken record playing a good song isnt always a bad thing (a saying ive heard a few times in response to the "your just a broken record" complaint)
The king from Wish seems like someone who grew up watching once upon a time, and properly learned its lessons. But then the movie argues no, People should just be able to make wishes and have them granted... I say scrap the book entirely. It's muddling what's going on. It's fair for the king to be frustrated, and feel undervalued. However Let's make that a core part of the plot, have the king's views of his people be one of the major problems to solve.
It felt like they couldn't really justify any reason for him keeping the dreams, when the entire setup of taking away people's desires and personalites is right there. They could have had him unable to have aspirations or the capacity to make anything unless using other's ideas.
"I can't grant wishes for myself"
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was all about control. If he had the wishes he was the only one that could grant them. If people couldn't remember them, they couldn't work towards fulfilling them on their own. Magnifico freaked out when the Star arrived because wishes could be granted outside of his control.
In the song when magnifico says "I granted 14 wishes last year come on that's a high percent just tells you that the lyrics were made by AI
This channel needs to get 100k
Disney isn't able to make pure villains anymore because they pandered to the "Disney villains were coded" subset so anymore irremediable villains will be seen as an insult to some minority (look what happened to Doctor Who and Davos) and Disney doesn't want to be seen as bigoted.
Weirdly enough, Wish made Magnifico more of a tragic hero were the song "This is the Thanks I get" highlights the pressures of leadership and burnout forcing him to use the spellbook.
This villain was made to generate sympathy for wealth hoarders.
Saying that "Even if you say yes to everything , it will never be enough."
"You're actually the hero by never granting a wish , allows them to earn it."
I think I just out wrote Disney.
I mean he’s the villain though
@@cartoonishidealism582 , that's the point.
They are illustrating a false narrative that makes everyday villains look more sympathetic , but they were too greedy to pull it off.
It's the same reason they said 2D animators were too lazy.
Indie animators kicking Disney's ass should have defeated this claim.
2D unions are small but strong , few but well placed.
CG have no unions , and go bankrupt from abusive overuse regularly.
That's the real reason 2D is gone , Bob Iger ate their checks.
This wouldn't be too much of a problem if they went with the villian duet as originally planned.
I've been watching a lot of videos making a critic over Wish, and I still didn't watch it, because I'm from Brazil, so yeah. Also, I don't go to cinema very often, so I'll be waiting for it to come in Disney plus. But even if I didn't watch it yet, I'd like to share with you guys the ideas I had in my mind about what this movie could be, based on what the trailer gave us. And just like I said: I didn't watch it, so if my idea happens to be too far of the reality of the movie... You already know why. I really just want to share my idea for fun, so here we go:
I thought it could be a really good plot if we started with Asha being presented to us as a really ambitious main character. Not in a bad way tho, but like a person who have really idealistic goals (you can think of her goal as whatever you want). So, that's why she would be revolted when discovering that king Magnifico doesn't make the majority of wishes come true. She would have EXACTLY this mentality of "every wish should be turned into reality". But here's the thing: her mindset would ALSO be portrayed as a bad thing. Magnifico ans Asha would be both opposites: one is selfish and doesn't make the effort for his people wishes, even the ones that are good and worth it. While Asha would also slowly become kinda antagonic (not on purpose, but because of her immature mindset), since all wishes becoming true would mean a total chaos. And she would discover that during her journey, trying to fight against Magnifico ways and seeing the consequences of her actions, by seeing the chaos that is caused when ALL people get what they want.
I imagine Asha somehow taking over the wish-magic-thing in a certain part of the story, causing that chaos. People of the kingdom would be in a total mess, since certain people made absurd wishes, while other made wishes that somehow countered other people wishes, etc... A chaos, basically.
Then Asha would regret, and Magnifico would appear there in a miserable state (since she took his power), and he would throw at her face the fact that she ruined everything. Then they would argue a lot about how the other is wrong, and by the end of the discution a third person (idk, maybe one of Asha's friends) would intercept and be the sensible one here, making the two try to put themselves in the other's feet. Then, Asha and Magnifico would notice by themselves that they were both wrong.
After that, I think we could have a twist (or not a twist actually, it could be a thing built since the start), where Magnifico talks to the queen, explaining that he regrets his actions and don't want to have this kind of control over the wish-magic-thing anymore. But then the queen would go villain and go like "if you don't want the power, then I want!", and she would try to take over the wish magic, turning into the final villain (she could be written as a neutral character since the start, like someone who was supposely just supporting Magnifico in his dictatorial way of possessing wishes, showing that since the beggining she wanted power and was using him for that)
Then, Asha, Magnifico and friends would have the crazy fight against the queen, she is defeated (then she is arrested or smth idk), and then Magnifico and Asha make their final decision together: freed the wish-magic, and let it work by it's own, as a nature-force that decides by itself how to deal with peoples wishes. No more human controlling it, since no human should "play God".
And then, Magnifico would stay as a normal king, Asha somehow would reach her goals in a cool and natural way, and the wish-magic would work in balance as it should be, by itself
The end!
We need more villains like The High Evolutionary.
The part about living for free and not charging rent is actually brilliant on some level. It is a redundant line, but it is supposed to show how Magnifico's benevolence is rooted in hypocrisy. It highlights Magnifico's hypocrisy of his benevolence.
I like how people are giving ideas for the movie that are better than what we actually got 💀
wow so cool that you were able to get a physical form for this video
This could actually be fixed if they make a sequel that mirrors Fantasia. Micky steals the hat out of wonder and hubris but is left humiliated and ashamed by the consequences of his actions. They could easily recreate that dynamic here with Magnifico's return and redemption. Sadly even with such an appropriate fix this will forever be a broken product.
Something I think would be cool about the villain for wish (In my opinion, I'm not a writer myself.)
It would be that the king is a lovely, wise sorcerer, and the Queen seems to be like one as well, but already has the powers of the evil bad bad book, but hides it. She makes king Magnifico the face of royalty, but the queen is actually behind the choices and all with the wishes, making the king finally revolt with Star Boy and Asha, with her friends as well.
"This Is The Thanks I Get" is a good song, but only because its a rip off of "You're Welcome".
And given the similar names it makes me wonder if that was intentional. Like its supposed to be a meta moana reference, but effectively its just recycling. I think what they were going for is they wanted a song that sound upbeat, like a hero's song, and then slowly have that unwind into a villain song. It's a cool idea with a lazy execution.
Like what if the villan is bored with power and he is depressed
Imagine if the queen was the villain. She would have the ideal that not everyone deserves to have their wish fulfilled, and the king’s ideal is that not every wish deserves to be fulfilled
About Disney needing villains what about Winnie the Pooh where any villain are just made up by the characters ie the Heffalumps and Woozles