The Eggshell Paradox in Narcissistic Relationships
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âThese relationships are another full-time job.â That explains a lot!!!
So true
It is!
Yeah, I could relate to that so much! I couldn't enjoy Fridays anymore, nor coming back from the office, because it was just switching to another job when I got home.
Yes. I found myself saying often - I have x number of kids and YOU take up more of my time than all of them together! Three in cloth diapers I hand washed, boobs and bottles, plus older ones active in sports and clubs. The giant, 300lb toddler won every time.
No wonder I al feel so exhausted
Narcissistic people don't actually know what they want. But they want it from others!
EXACTLY! And if you don't give the undefined thing to them they lash out. There's really no winning in those relationships. The only win is getting out and never looking back...
I'll tell you what it is. It's your moments of joy.
"They can be at the gates of paradise, and they will still complain that the angels are too loud". âââââ
Ramani, this was EXACTLY my situation. They are absolutely unappeasable!
One time, after I'd realized my mom was a narcissist but hadn't realized it about the boyfriend (not to mention every other romantic relationship I'd ever had prior), Mom gave us her timeshare days for the year. We normally went to the coast every year, and BF paid. So this time it was a free vacay -- and BF was being insufferable! Complaining about having to take time off work, spend money to eat out, etc.
I said to him, "Someone could give you a million dollars and you'd still complain that you had to pay the taxes." And he said, "Damn right!" He was actually proud of it!
@@yvonneneal8063 indeed! Now we know better and there's peace in that- right đ
Make sure I donât appear to be happy in front of him
Oh my this is so true
Yes I am the same way! Its so lonely because I have pushed everyone else away from me because he has embarrassed me in front of my family and friends so much that I can't stand it so I don't have any other relationships anymore and its sad.
Omfg
I am happy now and will be happy on front of them all â€â€â€â€â€walk it like I talk it đđđŻwe are actors and producers of our own movie can change it at anytime run itâs the devil đż forever searching for mommy đ„âđŸđ„âđŸđșđž
â@@nina2592I had an extremely similar experience.
Rehearsing everything for hours/days before saying them. In the end: Not saying anything at all, and ceasing to exist. You can't make things work unless you erase yourself.
This is heartbreaking but true
Even months of rehearsing, only to be too scared to speak up in the end.
@@bethb2468this!
I related to this 100%, but then because I had to water down my entire human experience he'd then accuse me of being miserable and constantly negative. Eventually I had absorbed his toxicity and after having 3 babies back to back, with no support and no breaks and being isolated from family and having friends cut off due to that, I was truly lonely and became resentful. It's so hard to pull yourself out of that even after I finally escaped with my babies and lived in a dv shelter and got my own home for us, I still struggle coping with all the trauma that I've packed away for so long. It's a brutal experience living with a narcissist and having kids with them.
@@EmileaLiebe mine told me I hated myself. I got a whole lot of narcissism being around the narc. This wasnât me and I was miserable in that dark. You lay with dogs you are going to get up with fleas. Be proud you got out!! Extremely traumatized too. But still life is so much better without that narc!!
They do get a power trip over noticing you are SO careful around them, yet it also pisses them off and makes them put you down as a person. Can't win.
@@cathytai remove yourself is all we can do they never gonna change so escape the egg shells itâs the devil spirit
Yep they love the control but also NEED you to show your emotions for more supply. So if you are silent and coming off neutral theyâll also take offense to it at the same time bc they want your reactions. The more extreme your reactions the better. Their whole MO is having power over others and feeling better than anyone else. Your emotional reactions give them a great feeling of power to their ego. And anything you say or donât say theyâll use against you in a smear campaign etc. You canât win the only way is to escape and donât look back.
Yes, if you do go grey rock or refuse to be drawn into defending yourself & just remain calm & silent.
They start their smear campaign & tell people that you are passive aggressive.
Yet if you argue with them & try & explain or engage with them they tell others that you are crazy.
So no matter what you do, you can't win.
It's all such crazy behaviour.
And all because they want to see us go crazy.
My narc thinks he knows everything about everything.
Yet he knows very little.
The BIGGER the NARCISSIST, the BIGGER the EGGSHELLS! đ đ
đ
More like Ostrich shells!
TOTALLY! DON'T EVER LET ON THE CRAZY THAT YOU PERCEIVE IS GOING ON!
â@@alliwarwick5590LOVE this that was my thought!đ
They're our biggest time wasters. Don't walk around them irrespective of any type of shells.
I walk away as soon as I see early red flags. đ¶ââđšđšđ©đ©
True
Aha ha, thanks easy to. lose your SOH in these. bloody relationships!
wasting my existence
I became afraid to speak, so became quiet.
Me too, but I learned that silence speaks louder than words. Be well. â€
When i met my ex for the first time the way he treated me was so good I felt happy and I prayed it should stay that way, I'll look up and imagine us together with our children happy but at last narcissist will always be narcissist, he started telling me some weird stuff about feeling like killing me and tell me how he would do it thought he was joking cause we're very kinky lol, but it got to an extent when he wasn't satisfied with anything I do,he'll slap me time to time, I didn't even have access to my money then I started making research which I learnt about narcissist I join some pages and groups on Facebook which taught me more and I start gathering courage to stand up to him, it was hard to decide to leave him or not,but I have to put my kids first and do what's best for them, I planned on filing for divorce so I did while in court he denied all what he did and everyone saw me as the bad person, I was frustrated and on a sunny day after court I was here getting motivated not to give up then I came across a comment with a recommendation about Tec_Durukeli so I reached out to him on instagram through this link đ instagram.com/duru_kenli?igsh=aXk5am0xdDJ3eTJi& with my situation I risked it and contacted him he was so genuine and generous he hacked my ex phone and got me all his social media chat, deleted and undeleted text, he even recovered his social media account, I can even access his phone from mine I went through his chat, messages and got good evidence to use in court I showed it to my lawyer he knew what to do and now I'm free from him all the sleepless night and horrifying nightmare slowly went away, I healed great now my children and we are living our life to the fullest
Do NOT GIVE HIM POWER. THEY ARE POWER LESS WITHOUT U
Thanks for this epiphany. Now I know why I was teased for being extremely quiet in junior high after being "normal" in grade school. Everything I said in front of my mother was mocked, ridiculed or provoked her anger and rage.
When I feel like I am losing myself around someone , itâs a red flag that I have to leave! Sometimes for a little while, or forever!
đđœ
True!!
Do not ignore the red flags PLEASE
Ođo.đ â@@heleneisotta4288
For what it's worth I think forever is the best choice there. Don't lose yourself for anyone! Of course, this might be about the process of shedding old behaviors bc of someone previous, & needing a breather to adjust gradually - or to get perspective, in which case, don't mind me. I do that. Sometimes I'm in managing/eggshell mode & can only tell that I was coping, after I'm alone after being with someone, & then why, lol. "Red flag or expectation of red flag?" Yikes. đ Omg. But yeah, don't settle for icky treatment. If it is, go with forever bc then there's room for better. Well I'm just stating the obvious, but in solidarity.
Hyper vigilance, pretending to like what he likes, not pushing to do what I like, giving things and people up to avoid conflict, not bringing up issues to avoid conflict, even compromising my values and convictions to avoid conflict, not speaking up when my boundaries are crossed, much more.
I nevet drank so much in my life to please him.... destroyed my mind And Body! Horrible
Life is too short to live like that. Dump him. Yes, you can.
@@bethb2468 This was me!
Beth, Iâm praying that God sends a blessing to you. A hug or word of encouragement through His servant. If you were my friend or neighbor, we could have a good chat, cry and hug. Sometimes thatâs what I need
All of these things! And then he will call me âboringâ for not suggesting places we could go, or that I am being âa bitchâ when I do try to assert a boundary. I have been working with a therapist who helped me see I have been protecting him all this time and that it is finally time to face up to the fact he is a narc. Iâm ready, I accept it (but easier said than done); now Iâm gathering my thoughts, next I will gather my possessions and then I am off! I totally recommend seeking out a narc abuse/emotional abuse specialist on BetterHelp or a similar platform if youâre not able to attend sessions in person (I find itâs easier to sneak off for an hour and do a phone session in secrecy than going somewhere in person). Sending you lots of love and healing energy xxxxxxxxx
Stopped sharing anything in my life. That didn't stop them from monitoring me. The competition, comparison, and backstabbing was off the charts.
On behalf of this online community I would like to volunteer to thank our astute doctor for sharing what she shared in her life vis Ă vis her experience in her narcissistic relationships. This really helps all of us, ACTUALLY. đđŒ
Thank you for reminding us. Yes, she did share some personal information which is so helpful to many of us who have gone through both similar and different experiences of walking on eggshells in narcissistic relationships.đđđ·
Yes. Thank you Dr Ramani.
You are saving many souls by giving us this knowledge.
I owe my freedom & happiness to you.
The last narc I was with for 20 years (my late husband) couldn't stand me making noises in the house, so unknowingly to myself I began creeping around.
One day while we were on holidays at my sister's place. I was trying to be quiet as I moved around as usual, so as not to irritate him.
My sister told me after when I had time to speak with her on my own.
She said that he sarcastically said about me.
"There she goes, creeping Moses."
It's a situation where you will never be right with these wicked people, no matter what you do.
They must feel so miserable inside.
He is at peace now.
@@valerieward4044 and so are you! Time to be your authentic self! Enjoy the rest of your life. Do not ever let anyone else cramp your style! â€ïžđčđ
Learning music was my way of escape from my first narcissistic husband. I was with him for 25 years. Had 2 daughters who now have mental disorders.
We were not allowed to associate with others. He said 'We might be influenced."
So to keep myself occupied I learnt to play guitar using Library Books.
(He didn't want me to buy them because he said that was wasting money.)
So I spent many hours in my bedroom learning my guitar & later I learnt to sing.
I didn't want to watch T.V. with him.
(He was always in control of the remote anyway.
Eventually I became good enough to perform for Senior Cits.
Would you believe, he was the one who wanted me to do this. I think he wanted to show off his trophy.
It was by doing this that my confidence began to grow.
People were so encouraging to me.
I think I was able to sing to people because that was where I was in control. People often say they can't believe that I can sing in front of people because normally I was very shy & timid.
Eventually I was able to leave him.
29 years ago.
And now even though I am 77 years, I am still able to perform.
I can truly say that music was my way of escape.
It helped me through when I was learning the guitar while I was with him.
And now I am out on my own it has given me an opportunity to meet others & give them some joy..
Hang in there all you dear precious people who are living with a narcissist. If you can't get out right now. I would encourage you to try & find something else to do while waiting for the right time & circumstances to arrive for you to be able to get out.
Find something that you love doing & put your heart into it.
It will save you from becoming insane.
Bless you all. â€â€đđ
Jeeeze they are exhausting. I hope they all find an island to go and talk over each other at.
No matter how much I would think about how to say things, rehearse it thousands of times and go over every word, it NEVER went well. I never said things right, so it brought anger and the silent treatment if I was lucky... yelling and breaking things if I wasn't. I'm so relieved I have broken that cycle and I am getting out of this insanity!! The silent treatment that used to hurt me so deeply became the gift that keeps on giving... perception is evvvvvverything!! Stay strong warriors! Happiness is still possible, without them!
My husband never acts needy or like a victim . He is always the winner. The eggshells are about every move I make in the house. This AM it was âwell this isnât the best day to turn the oven onâ. It is true that it is exceptionally hot but I did the cooking early in the AM. There is always a criticism or complaint and that is why I am always on eggshells.
Narcissistic relationships are a full time job. You never get any rest. You are trying to sleep in the middle of narcissism work, eat, take care of your own self, and also watch out for mind land mines the narcissist throws at you when you are struggling to get some peace and trying to breathe and do all this with exhaustion.
What a brillant image: "Even at the gates of paradise, they would say the angels are singing too loud". That's too precise...
If youâre to happy it makes them angry but if youâre not happy enough youâre ruining the mood. There was never a balance or correct mood.
I used to tread on eggshells around my narcissistic mother, sensing what mood she was in so that I could act accordingly. On one occasion I was really happy as I'd passed an exam. I tried to tell her and she was really short with me. I asked her if she was okay and had someone upset her and she then accused me of being the one in a bad mood and was picking an argument!
I remember sensing the mood Mom was in when I got home from school. You could just hear the eggshells crunch under your feet! I would immediately go to my room (not always "safe", but my best bet as a child).
I'm sorry for your experiences. I used to fawn at my narcissist mother. She still gave me the silent treatment, even if I was ill. A narcissist mother is hell. She got angry at us for everything. She was evil.
Therefore I don't share my successes any more with 'my' narcs.
I also don't expect comfort from them, since the last two times (I needed them big time)... instead I was additionally traumatised and betraid by them.
Its very difficult when they do the blame switch. They accuse you of the problem they have themselves. Because they think their right about you and everything else !
Yes! Itâs very confusing⊠my ex tried to say HE was the one walking on egg shells around me (because Iâm âso overly sensitiveâ) and he never knew what would make me cry (meanwhile Iâm tip toeing around, afraid of triggering his rageâŠ) I guess he was afraid of⊠my tears? đ wish I had all this knowledge back then!
Just like this video
Eggshell walking: staying away from my mother when my dad wasnât homeâŠ.waiting on the front porch for him to come home every dayâŠ.staying out of her faceâŠ.Role playing and not being my authentic selfâŠto keep her and her rages at bay.
Unexpected explosions of temper, sudden gaslighting, covert warfare, yeah, it's a hostile environment chock Full of hidden landmines . Dr. Ramani You are telling Our Story, All of us walking Wounded hurting Survivors . Thank You ! Bless you Dear Lady !
Years of walking on eggshells, I was labeled as aloof, cold, uncaring, even stupid, and ultimately crazy by older narcissists siblings and mother
@@lovehappiness3911 I am labeled sneaky
Fax I can relate to all of these
Same here. I left the country because I couldn't depend on my family in addition to their narcissistic personalities. They wonder why I left and I told them - "You never helped me, so I left." Life is so good now :).
A perfect marriage or relationship is an illusion; there's no universal playbook for making them work. What's effective for one couple may not apply to another. Nevertheless, I've come to understand that there's always a solution to be found. Half a decade ago, my wife and I faced such trials in our marriage that divorce seemed inevitable. Yet, through perseverance and determination, we navigated through the rough waters and emerged stronger, reunited, and more resilient
There is a lot of sense in what you just said and I hope mine works the same way too, we are currently separated but I cant live without her, I love her so much. wish I can get her back I can do anything to have her back, we have tried therapy amongst other things
Its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is shelly renee white..
This is helpful, I will look her up online right now...Thanks.
You wont regret it
When I first went away to college, I realized we never said, âI love you,â in our family. When I came home for a visit, I told my mother I loved her. She couldnât handle it and started yelling at me!
đź I get u.
My 'father'... when hugging... pushes me away. đ
I have a step family, who to be honest have been some good people to me, but here's a quick story about their side being unable to say I love you, or to deal with intimacy of any kind;
My step grandparents had a son who contracted leukemia and upon hearing the news, my grandmother cast her arms around my grandpa for support and began to cry. As the story was related, he grabbed her arms and peeled her off him, set her arms at her side and he turned and walked out. He never comforted her. At least not publically. He never said I love you to anyone so far as I can remember. I hugged him sometimes, but you could feel the awkwardness he felt as I did. He must have thought I was queer (thats the word he would use) for it. Well, that inability to express followed his son, my stepdad, and to this day emotions are kind of off limits unless theres lots of alcohol involved. Sad really. They're good people who just cant seem to get beyond that need to be viewed as strong and stoic.
For 30 years I didn't know what or who I was dealing with so I spoke my truth because I thought it was helpful đ
I got in response a lot of anger, criticism and of course the silent treatment topped off with the gaslighting. Honestly, I lost myself and grew tired of the fallouts that I just stopped talking as much feelings of loneliness and frustration became a refuge. Long story short, we are in the process of getting a divorce and I'm looking forward to my peace đ
đđđđđȘ
I NEVER talk about myself and what I did, while my narcissistic brother can monologue for HOURS about himself and what he did.
When i met my ex for the first time the way he treated me was so good I felt happy and I prayed it should stay that way, I'll look up and imagine us together with our children happy but at last narcissist will always be narcissist, he started telling me some weird stuff about feeling like killing me and tell me how he would do it thought he was joking cause we're very kinky lol, but it got to an extent when he wasn't satisfied with anything I do,he'll slap me time to time, I didn't even have access to my money then I started making research which I learnt about narcissist I join some pages and groups on Facebook which taught me more and I start gathering courage to stand up to him, it was hard to decide to leave him or not,but I have to put my kids first and do what's best for them, I planned on filing for divorce so I did while in court he denied all what he did and everyone saw me as the bad person, I was frustrated and on a sunny day after court I was here getting motivated not to give up then I came across a comment with a recommendation about Tec_Durukeli so I reached out to him on instagram through this link đ instagram.com/duru_kenli?igsh=aXk5am0xdDJ3eTJi& with my situation I risked it and contacted him he was so genuine and generous he hacked my ex phone and got me all his social media chat, deleted and undeleted text, he even recovered his social media account, I can even access his phone from mine I went through his chat, messages and got good evidence to use in court I showed it to my lawyer he knew what to do and now I'm free from him all the sleepless night and horrifying nightmare slowly went away, I healed great now my children and we are living our life to the fullest
Yup
Walking on eggshells meant always censoring my needs, my wants, my feelings, and most of all my thoughts in order serve or privilege their needs, their wants, their feelings and to validate their thoughts at the cost of my sanity. I was a greyrock
You have to walk on eggshells around them, but do it in a way where they don't know you are walking on eggshells. That is exhausting and is pretty much what consumes most of my life.
TOTALLY! SO EXHAUSTING!
This makes so much sense, I know narcissists at work, in my family and among friends of friends. They want to make you feel bad, This forces you to walk on eggshells with them. My eggshells amount to avoidance. But these people are determined to suck you dry. They are emotional vampires.
I cannot believe how long I thought that someone else's rage responses were my fault because 'everyone knows that's just how he is, you shouldn't have tried talking to him". đ
@@Neresdipity everything is someone else fault not the narcs an they are all the same them dern narcs !
@@SherryTomlinson-mk7gm you're 100% correct, when I think of how I saw things when I was in the situation, it's like I was a brainwashed cult member
"They want the fight" is on point...It is really exhausting and exasperating to try not to trigger them all the time.
I need to be more aware of my âeggshelliness.â It feels unauthentic and fake trying to make someone happy that hates you.
I once saw a post on face-book that made me Laugh Out loud " Breaking News , Scientists Discovered the Center of the Universe and the Narcissist was Not There ! LOL !
đ
Going through this right now... 13 years together. I want out. It's affecting my health. I am damned NO MATTER WHAT.
I hope you go. I stayed with my ex 36 years; 16 years therapy, 3 years of couples counseling. Stayed for the kids, financial security. I made it out ok and I have peace. Iâm also learning NOW that it was much much worse than I realized. I couldnât see it at the time.
Get out right now! If not possible, contact a therapist specialised in narcissistic abuse. Therapists can also give practical logistical advices about finding a temporary or permanent solution for your problems. Please do it! Life can be so beautiful together with a decent human being that loves you! Nobody ever said "I wish I had stayed more with my narcissistic partner instead of being in this healthy relationship"
@@jillybeans11.11what steps did u take to get out?
My eggshells:
- Tried not to breathe.
- Tried to be invisible.
- Sat frozen in a corner of the room and avoided crossing it so as not to be seen or draw attention to myself.
- Kept younger siblings from doing things that would light the fuse.
- Tried not to be in the way.
- Tried, desperately, to follow their ever changing rules to a T. (Useless, theyâd still keep changing them and lie about that, too.)
- Tried my hardest not to reveal what I truly loved or liked, because it would be used against me.
I wouldn't give responses either. He would push me and push me for an amswer...I knew either answer would be a fight.
My initial feeling to your comment is a sense of contraction in my heart, I know that avoidance is a losing strategy in romance. I worried maybe you were torturing him.đ But I know when we recognize a relationship is a lost cause and that we need to get out, yes that is definitely the best approach, to keep oneself safe. Do not take the bait!! Especially not if there are any reactive abuse patterns.
I struggle with knowing when I am "supposed to" lie. It's a strange problem to have. đ I had learned early on that fibs only ever multiplied my consequences, so I am very resistant to lying, to the point where it has gotten me into dangerous situations. My ex husband ended up holding me hostage, and I wouldn't lie to him, I wouldn't tell him what he wanted to hear, to get through the night. He held a gun to my head, trying to hear what he wanted. He wanted to believe that I had asked him to move out so I could sleep with another man, and he was insisting on a name so he could aim his rage at that person. I had asked him to move out for the safety of our child. I got out, obviously. But it was a lesson I didn't want to learn. Honesty might not always be the best policy. đ đ Physical safety first.
@@PaigeSquaredI hope you got away from him ! When they start pulling weapons itâs time to go. I heard my dad in the other room with a 38 this was later in life soon before he passed. I heard an animal scream and a click of the gun. My response was freeze.
Thatâs awful⊠figuring she made you answer the question .. too ugh
@@SherryTomlinson-mk7gm oh yes, in his rage, he finally did enough to justify court action. He did that to himself, guaranteed my freedom. đ That's not the story he tells, though. đ
The officer assigned to my neighborhood (so the same cop that was sent from dispatch every single time I called for help) had lied and told me that I could not do anything until my ex had laid a hand on me. (He also never once spoke to me without my ex glaring at me over his shoulder, over multiple house visits. Which is basic DV 101, so he either had no training or didn't care or blatantly believed a wife is property). That wasn't true, according to the judge, who was pretty angry I didn't get a protection order sooner. I had to tell him I was following advice from my local district, who had known of the situation for over six months.
The night my ex held me hostage I went for the door multiple times, even though he had taken coats (winter/snow), shoes, phones, any electronics with wifi, and even my glasses off of me. I thought if I could just get out onto the road, I could get a neighbor to hear me, or I could get a witness to at least look out their window. I was trying with everything I had, I remember at least four times where I got out of the bedroom he tried to keep me in, and went for an exterior door. He physically stopped me each time; I ended up needing to wait for him to pass out. At one point, he picked me up by my waist and threw me back, away from the doorway, while holding our son in his other arm. There were bruises all over my torso. That was enough for a three year protection from abuse order, for my son and I.
The PFA expires this December; if there is any way to renew it, I will. I know that guaranteed jail is the *only reason* he is leaving me alone. He violated the terms of the PFA within 12 hours, I reported him (I suppose he gradiose-ly believed I would not). He spent one night in jail, and never wants to go back. I am very, very aware that it is not out of respect for me, nor some newly attained maturity, that I have been left alone.
The court order allows my ex supervised visits with his son. He stopped bothering and dropped down to only one visit, once a month, for a few hours, when he realized those visits would not allow access to harass me. At first I was annoyed and heartbroken for my son, because he loves his dad, but to be honest, the less my son sees his father, is probably for the best. I could use a break more often than I get one, but if being with his father is the only alternative, I am fine being tired. Our son will be better off in the long term, the less exposure he gets to that lifestyle and belief system.
My ex wanted my life to be so absolutely impossible and for me to not have access to any help (he worked to drive away all of my support and contacts), so that I would be forced to go back with him. Seriously, my ex husband, who knew me for fifteen years, thought that I would move myself and my small child back into a house with him. I'd rather die, frankly. đ I don't know who he thought he married, but I was never going to be okay with an unequal dynamic.
I can't mention I have friends that actually like me because in Narcissist's family's mind, I'm awful. If something happens to me... "Call your 'friends'."
You nailed it. My eggshell habits are the same. When I clean I have to make sure I do not forget the dog toys on the table. I feel I have to cook the way he likes and water my plants the way he thinks I should. He even criticizes how I play a video game. đ
Growing up, we had to walk on eggshells, because we never knew what was gonna set Daddy off.
I hid from mine most of my childhood. â€
same
Yup, my father. His rages were crazy
Are all Dads like this. đ
I studied piano for 10 years. I never told him. I had to sit and listen to him play hours of amateur nonsense. I hid myself from him in other ways as well. He said once that I was too happy with the way things were. I wasnât happy at all.
I try to hide my talents from these types of people. It is amazing what we learn to hide to protect ourselves and even the narc. When things got ugly with my spouse and I began speaking out, people were surprised since they thought we "had the perfect marriage." I realize I was unhappy shortly after we married because he stopped investing in our relationship and I slowly lost myself to his desires. He comes from a broken home. His mom went and had somewhat of her own life and I think he thought if she just stayed home that things would have been better between his parents. My husband ended up being a father to his three younger sisters and a husband to his mom. It took me a long time and other people noticing things to finally realize how enmeshed and parentified he was. I am still married, but I am content because I no longer live my life for him.
I hadnât thought of this perspective before, but itâs spot on!
They are looking for any possible trigger, but when there is none they feel neutralized. They hate it as they have to feel dominant in all situations.
My sister CRAVES the drama, plays the victim to anyone who will listen. Its truly exhausting and stressful, for me. Gray rocking is my jam!! âźïžđ§ââïž
If anything, the narcissist will be at the front gates of hell, complaining loudly that he wasn't let in fast enough! LOL!
Dr Ramani, you are such a bright spot in my day every day! "The Angels are singing to loud" đđđ so true! Thank you for a good laugh to start my day!
I just try not to talk around this narcissistic sibling. If I don't say anything, I can't offend anyone and the person can't get information about me to later use to meddle in my life and try to ruin it.
It took me a long time to realize why I didn't want to spend time with my brother or my grandmother. It is because of their narc behaviors. My brother a lot better than he used to be, but my grandmother is nearly 93 and still the same and I still don't want to spend time with her.
I was in a narcissistic relationship for years, without knowing it really; I knew something was wrong, but I had no idea what it was! I've learned so much from Dr. Ramani and thank goodness, I'm able to not have this relationship as my main relationship; it was a friendship and now it's just not anymore.
My Mother in law does DARVO with eggshells and blames others for forcing her to walk on eggshells. Insane to observe.
Great video Dr. Ramani, thank you!
My ex did that too. He actually had me convinced I was the problem until I read Walking on Eggshells, and realized I was the one walking on eggshells.
Wow this reminded me of how I was constantly walking on egg shells for them because I thought it was from their bipolar. This makes more sense that its narcissistic abuse and that's the personality disorder my ex had, not bipolar. I've noticed many people with npd use bipolar as a mask for their abusive behaviors.
That explains why they start the smear campaign as soon as they meet you. They're tipped off early in the game to the shame of being thought of as crazy.
I've been away for 9 amazing months from the absolute chaos of emotional and psychological abuse, I have 1000's of examples but I remember one, 10 years ago, I expressed I didn't like a song by a well known band, well it was thrown in my face ALL THE TIME FOR 10 YEARS, as if he'd written the lyrics, sang it, played every instrument, produced the song and scored it! Like I had personally attacked HIS SONG, bizarre creatures
Theyâre walking bear traps and youâre the bear. No win ever never enough ever. Run
my 'eggshelling' was about planning conversations days in advance, waiting for excatly the right (least bad time) to raise the issue but especially trying to anticipate every possible reaction and/or response and prepare a perfectly worded proving statement or counterargument.
When the narcissist is also an alcoholicâŠawesome.
Itâs a special hell. I hear you!!â€
You never know what random words, or even your face at rest, they will decide to interpret as being "disrespectful". Which of course is the opening for them to be as disrespectful as possible to you. Then when you call them out on their behavior, you started it so you deserve it, right? đ So exhausting.
This is a bit of a crazymaking one because my narc would sometimes act *genuinely* afraid of me if I basically showed a negative emotional reaction to something manipulative that theyâd said or done, and then (before I knew better of course) Iâd get so wound up that Iâd actually end up shouting something like âstop making me out to be crazy! / stop acting so effing afraid of me!â
Which, as it says here, is exactly what a narcissist would say, which leads me right back to wondering whether IâM in fact the toxic one and Iâm just that un-self-aware. Itâs worrying how much narcissists and the people they target can end up acting the sameâŠ
Yup their whole goal is to basically relocate / project their core sense of worthlessness into you
At one phase our marriage ,He accused me of having an affair when I was gray rocking in order to avoid any conflict with him and maintain peace in the house.
There was always blame and conflict no matter what I say or did!
My ex worked afternoons, so I tried my best to stay gone when he was around, depended on friends for conversation to avoid conflict.
I always made a point to talk to him extra nice, cooked his favorite dishes, bought him things like ties etcâŠtried to please him to a point where I stop loving meâŠa horrible way to live, my anxiety was always high! Thanking God, for the strength that I mustered up to divorce him!!!
I've just chosen silence more often than not, but even that isn't safe. Agreeing with them completely isn't safe. Saying exactly what they want you to say isn't safe. Nothing is safe in these situations except for not interacting with them at all, but going NC has its own laundry list of pitfalls.
Also: I don't talk about myself; not my wants, my needs, my interests, my fears. Don't make suggestions. Don't try to give advice even when asked for it. Don't show resistance. Don't talk about the past.
Narcissists love the idea of commanding fear in people. It's a power trip for them. They don't like being made to feel guilty for it. My coping mechanism when forced to interact with a narcissist is to respond with one-worded answers, not ask about them, and keep conversations on a surface level. A few went ballistic when they noticed I was avoiding them.
This is exactly me and my adult daughter. I will never have a normal relationship like other mother and daughters I am 68 she's 38 with 2 kids I always leave in silent tears.
I hear you sister! I've accepted this and learned to take better care of myself to survive it. Massage yesterday! đâ€
She was raised by you. How did she end up being like that? It didn't just show up over night
What is a normal mother daughter relationship? I don't know what that is
I have two daughters in their 50s. Both are narcissists. I stopped talking to the older daughter a year and a half ago. In the last few months, I realized the younger daughter is a covert narcissist and I have distanced myself from her as well. This means I am no longer in contact with anyone in my family. Iâm 75 years old. I never thought my senior years would be like this. I need to watch these videos to remind me of how bad it was so that I stay strong in my decision to stay away from them.
Twin studies show that how you raise your child doesn't have as strong an impact as genes, culture, peer groups and life events.
If you're walking on eggshells, your guard is up. Narcs don't like that because their supply will be diminished when you're on guard. They have to get you back to the state where your guard is down and you're trusting them so that when they zing you, the reaction and thus the supply is bigger, better, and more satisfying. The more you suffer, the happier they are.
Daddy would always use the threat of a tantrum to use social situations to demean and devalue his family.
My mother would say: "Don't be scared of me. I'm not scary. I understand you." She hit us our whole childhood for making even insignificant mistakes. Sometimes, my sisters and I would argue, and without even understanding the situation, she would hit us. She was very unpredictable, and we never really felt safe around her. Now, she's mad that we don't trust her and are slowly distancing ourselves from her.
They turn you into what they want and as a child you don't realise what's happening. They ignore your needs but if you step out of line it becomes very cold and dark very fast. They can reject you a million times but if you do it once they'll treat you so bad you'll fawn to get back into the fold. What other hoice is there when you're a kid, you can't leave! Urgh they're so selfish
My eggshell way growing up: not wanting. Not needing. Not wishing. I lapped up any and all rationalizations for being needless.
A tribute to the âpushmi-pullyu.â One end and the other-Donât be one or the other. Be you. Come and go by choice.
No matter what I did or said, I just took a breath and prepared myself for the inevitable rage.
You are amazing Dr Ramani, when you mentioned "think back" many things became clear. I was very shy kid even with close relatives and now I understand why!! Thank you for taking time to help so many of us. Looking at the comments it feels as if there is an epidemic of Narcs but as always you're right about most people being being nice folk.. These days I compliment when I see a lady dressed well or with a beautiful haircut. I am making up for the "silent years" and trying to spread some happiness. LOL.... I still have no idea what to do about the Narcs constant boasting and self puffing. Every tiny goal I achieve is met with how they are "better and bigger" If they cannot compete on a personal basis they *always have a "good friend" who can!!
Sometimes...I just go wild, I put on my rubber boots and run across ALL the eggs, laughing with glee!
"These relationships are like another full-time job" - so well said. It's like a nefarious form of free labor, which people are groomed for and/or get stuck in like Stockholm syndrome. Better to be a hermit.
Always afraid of saying the wrong thing that in my mind would trigger a silent treatment. Got to the point of being through so many silent treatments, I felt like I lost my âvoiceâ. Little did I know that it really wasnât a matter of what I said looking back, as it was her getting what supply she needed of me then going silent until she rang the bell again.
Great question!
These are questions we ask ourselves faaaar later, after the escape from foundational narcs. 14 years out from a malignant narc mother and I can ask: Why are you bringing home and moving in your boyfriends when dad is overseas? Why are you leaving all motherly duties to your oldest daughter, who is 12? Why do we not get to be mad at you or our rude grandparents who treat us like trash?
Finally free and I get to see the house I grew up in was layered with narcissistic parents
Your information is great! This is so needed right now. Iâm in my 50âs and my father is STILL saying Iâm disappointing because of the offenses heâs taking from the natural conversations weâve had in the past. I just got âboth barrelsâ of stuff Iâve done for the past 5+ years.
I donât walk on eggshells so I get persecuted and the narc mother turned the whole family against me! F them!!!
I know I've spent a good deal of time walking on eggshells around people. But, I began recovering from narcissistic abuse with focus about 4 years ago. I almost can't remember what it's like. I've since run into the occasional former friend/narcissistic mentor etc. that look frightened of me when I greet them now. My face has changed, the knowledge of all their toddler bs is etched into an amused smirk when I see them and that's mirroring they can't handle. I'm much happier now that I've integrated my own anger, esteem etc. I suspect that for the narcissist it'd be like a drug dealer running into an old addict/customer and seeing them confident and maybe even a little dangerous. No longer an ideal target.
My eggshells? Anticipating every variable I could that might cause chaos with my wife. Never loving anything more than my willingness to immediately leave it based on my wife's needs / demands. Abandoning hobbies, interests, passions (or going underground with them) so that they wouldn't upset her. Keeping a list of all the past eruptions to attempt to always avoid them in the future. I'm divorced now, and I learn every day about things that are hard-wired into me that I'm now able to work on eliminating from my personality.
I relate so much, especially that list... I don't know about you, but when I was making the list I was also suspecting myself for being perhaps not perceptive enough, stupid or maybe insensitive. So the list was for both... Only in hindsight I realised how absurd the need of a list actually was.
@@onlyalifetime The feelings of self-doubt that you mention? I've been there and done that, and unfortunately, still struggle with them. One day after church, I was sitting by myself and felt compelled, since I was wavering about whether I should be considering divorce, to write a list of chaotic, angry, disruptive, or otherwise bizarre instances that my wife had instigated. Unprompted by any notes or anything else, I came up with more than 50 events/situations that she'd prompted. For each one, I could understand how I changed my behavior going forward to accommodate her actions and try to eliminate any repeats. That was a sobering moment. I needed the list to begin understanding just how much I'd contorted and lost myself over the decades. I'm just over 3 months out of the marriage and trying to discover me again.
The only thing I tell my dad is I'm busy to any questions he asks no matter how it fits the question ask.
Ironically, I know the phase âwalking on eggshellsâ from my father, who would complain that he had to try to restrain himself from saying mean things, so as not to upset me.
Ooh hum they want to be the victim. I always walked on eggshells around my dad. He called me sneaky. lol I feel sneaky because I walk on eggshells when I donât need to sometimes around others to this day. Plus he use to tell everyone I was sneaky. It was best not to have my own opinion much less be heard. I was suppose to be a mind reader too. Many times as a little kid Iâd be like wtf did he just say. But I would agree. Lord have mercy life with a narc is mind bending. Actually mind blowing . Ty Dr Ramani as always you rock!
Thank you Dr Ramani! I realized as a very young young child (too young) no matter what choices I made including, the choices family members with NPD traits made for me, they were never ever ever ever going to be happy or satisfied or change! They could be a disaster without my help!! It had absolutely nothing to do with me. As sad and ridiculous as they are, since I have a low to zero chance of being appreciated, recognized, or having my needs met, I decided to go with my authentic self. Better to face the world and be scrutinized for authenticity than as a lap dog! The whole situation is gross and I have the drama on extinction!
Dr Ramani, You're The Best †! You explain everything to a TEE as to what I've been so confused about for 45 years đąđą
I act nice in front of them, but inside angry.
So you end up serving them while hurting yourself đą
@@MyVoice222yep, that sums it up.
@@MyVoice222 not now, I am maintaining no contact from her.
I totally understand that, thank you for sharing. It feels horrible and is exactly how I am around my mother whom im now low contact with. Waking up late in life to it, I was full of anger, grief and hate, now it's manageable. So sad they'd rather protect themselves than to open up even a little
When i met my ex for the first time the way he treated me was so good I felt happy and I prayed it should stay that way, I'll look up and imagine us together with our children happy but at last narcissist will always be narcissist, he started telling me some weird stuff about feeling like killing me and tell me how he would do it thought he was joking cause we're very kinky lol, but it got to an extent when he wasn't satisfied with anything I do,he'll slap me time to time, I didn't even have access to my money then I started making research which I learnt about narcissist I join some pages and groups on Facebook which taught me more and I start gathering courage to stand up to him, it was hard to decide to leave him or not,but I have to put my kids first and do what's best for them, I planned on filing for divorce so I did while in court he denied all what he did and everyone saw me as the bad person, I was frustrated and on a sunny day after court I was here getting motivated not to give up then I came across a comment with a recommendation about Tec_Durukeli so I reached out to him on instagram through this link đ instagram.com/duru_kenli?igsh=aXk5am0xdDJ3eTJi& with my situation I risked it and contacted him he was so genuine and generous he hacked my ex phone and got me all his social media chat, deleted and undeleted text, he even recovered his social media account, I can even access his phone from mine I went through his chat, messages and got good evidence to use in court I showed it to my lawyer he knew what to do and now I'm free from him all the sleepless night and horrifying nightmare slowly went away, I healed great now my children and we are living our life to the fullest
Thank you so much Doctor Ramani. Everything you mention here is so recognisable and rings such a big bell.
He had this key phrase after there was an argument, "Do we have a problem?" In the past, I learned if he said that and I voiced said problem- it would be a tirade of all the things that I caused for the problem to occur. He blamed most of his actions on me and then I'd freeze up and just say "Nevermind"
Brilliant and Beautiful!đ
Always agree with them, always censure what you say and go over it in your head before you say it, never complain because they will always have it worse, always consider their happiness when making plans because their happiness is the only thing that matters, always pretend to enjoy whatever they like, re-read every text before you send it to make sure you didn't say anything that will trigger them, never share any accomplishments because you'll be belittled, never share information that will contradict them because you know nothing you're just a stupid idiot compared to them so just act ignorant all the time and treat them like they have vastly superior knowledge in every thing compared to you, pretend to be happy when you're not ok because they'll take it personally and you'll ruin their day .. ....
Say yes when yo want to say no. Don't bring up anything that might make them angry or jealous. Don't win at games or allow anyone to see your accomplishments because they won't like it. Beg them to tell you when they will arrive and what they like for every holiday. Don't talk about yourself because they are not interested.
The videos youâve been posting lately are really resonating. Thank you so much for your channel. I am learning and growing so much. â€
The "having to choose every word oh so carefully," is a flag for me that things have gone too far. I realized when I am over-stressing about my phrasing, it is often not my normal anxiety, that it is very likely a sign about the other person (when I know them, for example, vs. writing an important letter to some authority figure or company).
The shaming and lashing out is based on their belief that we *must* hold the same values and standards. We want their approval, but we rarely take the time to consider if the criticism is even a standard that we would want to hold ourselves to. When I started studying Kristen Neff's work, the ridiculousness of their judgements started to really stand out, and it started to be recognizable as verbal abuse, and emotional abuse. They are so shame avoidant, that they never face it long enough to question whether there might be another understanding. When they see someone not following their own personal standards, it makes them very angry; how dare you not make the same effort that I am!! And that's when the lashing out happens. They aren't even open to the idea that they're okay, and that others are okay, nor are they open to learning how research has repeatedly proven that shaming is not an effective motivator for behavior change. đ
Egg shells: paying attention to exactly how things have been placed, so that if i touch it, use it, or knock it down - I could put it back *exactly* as it had been; never sharing hopes or desires. Always fluffing her up about things that -to me- seem silly and irrelevant, but that i didnât attend to or comment on with enthusiasm, thereâd be hell to pay. So exhausting. Just two quick examples, obv so many more.
Depending on your own personality has a lot to do with an approach to a
difficult person. After so many years, I just don't care what they say, none of
their rhetoric means anything to me because they're always doing the same
thing day in and day out. As soon as they start their static, I just shut down.
đđ€
How??? If you don't care what your husband said or did to you night before or in front of people ?? It means you are cut of emotions !! What do you do with your Narcissistic partner if he ask you to have sex !? I try to understand your comment actually !!
I would come home or walk into your room and sense out the facial expression, body language, the energy in the room to know how I could act.
Itâs so sad we have people in our lives and when you donât comply with them itâs all wrong for them impossible situation. Kicking shells to walk away
As the youngest child and a tail end baby boomer.. I'm still getting the shaft as I approach my late sixties.
What they've done is worthy of several books.. leaving me constantly on the defensive, having to explain myself.
I saw this; the narcissist
"I'm going to make it impossible for you to succeed by causing you so much stress that you end up in survival mode, only having the ability to just get by.
Then i'm going to berate you for not being able to succeed or fulfill your goals."
Author unknown.
This.. Both of my parents were narcissists, and all three of my much older siblings who represent the spectrum of the baby boomers, with me being at the tail end.
They were the most self, centered and selfish generation we have seen yet.. And their sense of empathy or equity is actually non-existant..
Iâve been following you for years! It wasnât until recently that I got back into watching true crime shows after taking a break for several years. After having my daughter I suffered some postpartum that sort of inflated other pre-existing mental health issues and watching such shows seemed to keep me down during those times. But during that time I found you on CZcams and now that Iâm catching up on these shows, Iâm seeing you everywhere.
You have a brilliant mind and Iâm grateful to have listened to so much of your advice and read your book in the deepest parts of my therapy and counseling. So, thank you for being there in a way!
I had a short list of fairly surfacy things they engaged with to fill the time of every conversation we had, so they didn't have much time to try and pry, meddle and otherwise manipulate. Worked for years. Didn't a few times, and of course they went into narcissistic rage mode and cut me out of their life. After they did this for the third time, over me merely saying that I hope they'd someday decide to stop I didn't let them back in, and I regret not doing it sooner.
They make you the pet or threat.
*either your a house cat (a pet/ burden) or a lion (predator/ protector)
One of the countless examples: one time when I was a child my narcissistic mother raised her hand next to me a little too quickly and I thought she was going to hit me, so out of reflex I ducked and shielded my head with my arms. The fact that I had that thought when that wasn't at all what she wanted to do made her so mad that she did end up hitting me đ«
Ooooo. Im sorry...
đ€
I've done that, a teacher moved their hand quick and I ducked. My father was the violent one. Worst thing I remember is whe I was 7 and being a 7 year old! I didn't want him to play with my toy, he grabbed it and threw it and gains the wall, smash! I'll never forget that. He bought me toys and played with the ones he wanted to. Sold my bike because he said I wasn't riding it. I learnt that these things weren't mine.