Triple-T #97 - Heat treating
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- #tyrellknifeworks
Today's Triple-T (tools, tips and talk) #97 will be a deep look into heat treating. This will cover a lot of topics so check it out! (links below!)
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Do you have any questions I didn't cover in this video?
im glad you showed oil tempering in the katana video. its my go to tempering method
@@dagnard5707 right I agree. I'm glad he showed this because as a new maker who knows how long it would have been until I discovered that. 🤘
@@dagnard5707 that was the first time I tried it. It takes a while but works great!
@@mcrich1978 it took me 15 years before i found out about oil tempering and i have been smithing for 26 years now
@@dagnard5707 🤘
I thought I knew how to temper a knife. After watching this video I realize how much I did not know about tempering a knife. Thank you for providing this very well explained video.
I’m glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching
Wow! You just demystified that entire process.
Well done....great slides....and thank you for the candor!
Thanks for taking a look! I’m glad it was helpful.
You are the best continue your work
Thank you and thanks for watching!
*incredible video* I have never learned SO MUCH about heat treatment than this beautiful resource you made, thank you so much for sharing it for all to see!!
I'm glad it was helpful, Tylr! Thanks for watching!
It is interesting to hear familiar terms in English. Explanatory pictures are of course a masterpiece! Thank's for video!
I’m glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching!
Wish I could give two thumbs up. This was a great video. Thanks.
Thanks, I’m glad it was helpful!
Thank you SO much for your most excellent presentation! Far and above any others I have tried to follow!
I’m glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching, Alan
Excellent Heat treating video. No BS! Thanks.
Thanks for taking a look, Curtis!
This is probably one of the best information packed videos I’ve seen. I’ve been making edged weapons my entire life and I picked up some very useful information here. Thank you yet again. Keep the forge hot, brother!
I’m happy it was helpful, Rich! Thanks for watching
I really appreciate this video. I will certainly watch it again.
I’m glad it’s helpful, Stephen!
Great stuff!
Thanks, James!
This is going to be a great resource! When I was first starting and trying to figure out heat treating it was so hard to find a quick one stop resource for it. This is a great video!!
Thanks, I’m glad it was helpful Josh!
that was really informative and super easy to understand. At a pace that kept me interested. Well done. And a very sincere thank you!!
Thanks so much, Bob! I'm glad it was helpful to you.
Nice presentation of the basics, with final summary charts for use. Thanks, Denis.
I'm glad it was helpful, Byron!
Thank you for making this, good info for the newbies and seasoned vets
Thanks for checking it out, Brian!
Great video, thank you!
Thanks, I’m glad it was useful to you! 👍
Very well said, great vid
Thanks for watching, Chris!
Outstanding video Denis…. Even for those of us who have been beating steel into functional art for a while this content was a great refresher. Love your channel friend and have enjoyed watching your work evolve. Keep it up!!!
Thanks for checking it out! 👍
Very informative video!
Thanks for watching, Brett! I’m happy it was helpful.
Great information! Thank you very much!!!!
Thanks for taking a look!
This has been very helpful Tyrel
I’m glad it was helpful, Porter!
Awsome. I being a beginner this was invaluable info to me.Thanks Denis
I’m happy it was helpful, Don!
That was a great and informative video!!
Thanks for taking a look, Steve! I'm glad it was helpful.
Super informative really grateful!
Thanks for checking it out
Great info thank you
I'm glad it was helpful, John! Thanks for watching.
Excellent advice👍👍👍👍✌
Thanks for watching, Michael!
thank you very very much,from ARGENTINA
Thanks for watching, Pedro!
I do not forge anything...but man!!!... The knowledge you share with your audience is awesome! I've seen no other channel doing such detailed, in depth sharing of such specific content.
I hope one day I can use that as well, would be awesome to forge my own damascus blades!
Thanks Dan! I appreciate that. You should give it a try some day!
thank you youtube went i ran into your video i subbed watched the hole thing and hope to get on your patreon soon you doing an amazing job blew me away maybe in the future ill buy or order something from you
Welcome to the channel! Thanks for checking this one out! 👍
You did a really good job with this video. I couldn’t really think of anything that you missed besides mentioning decarb. But this may have been intentional. Heat treatment is a deep rabbit hole lol.
I thought after that I could have mentioned anti-scale and decarb. In the next evolution of this video I guess. Thanks for watching, Erik!
Good Morning Denis. 🙏
Hey buddy! Good morning! This one might be a bit of a repeat for you but thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks it's always good. Your presentations are spot on and obviously you're an excellent teacher. 🤘
Thanks for the video it came at the perfect time. I have some 1095 that I was going to get another Smith to heat treat for me but he must have decided he didn't want to do it. I can't get him to answer my calls or text. I said the hell with it and was going to do it myself this weekend. After this video I think I'll just send it off if it's that difficult. I just finished my first 2 knives last week and they turned out great. Nobody believes that they are my first 2 knives and I couldn't have done it without guys like you. Thanks man I really appreciate it
I wouldn't say 1095 is "that difficult", it just takes practice. I would definitely get yourself a set of hardness files and do a couple test pieces until you feel comfortable doing it before you screw up a knife you've spent a lot of time on. But hell, I did my first knife in 1095 cause I didn't know it was hard. I tested that knife when I got my HRC tester and it came out at 59 hrc. Maybe I just got lucky. 🤣. Thanks for watching, Richard.
@@TyrellKnifeworks LOL maybe I'll give it a try it won't be the first time I screwed something up and it damn sure won't be the last. I tried to use that message thing you put up on Patreon but I can't figure it out
@@richardbranton2780 Just email me directly if you have questions - tyrellknifeworks at gmail.
Hey Dennis…just FYI, I built a PID controller for my forge for about $100-150. It works great. The PID just opens and closes a magnetic valve that’s inline with the gas supply hose. I built the whole package into a small ammo can. I do appreciate the science lessons!
That’s not too bad at all. Maybe I’ll look into it. Do you have links to the parts you ordered? Would you mind emailing them to tyrellknifeworks at gmail. I’ll include them here. Thx!
@@TyrellKnifeworks I’ll send you a list and a link to the video I watched…some pics also. I have the PID set to only monitor P…I think…that way it basically acts as an on off switch. There’s no ramping involved. The residual heat in the forge reignites the gas no problem.
Also, forgot I took video of the final product. I’ll post it on my YT. It will be the only video there. Give me a few minutes.
This is great man, more informative than anything else I’ve looked up. when I saw Martin Lawrence I lost it. It took me back to that magical day he had a heat stroke jogging in LA on a hot day in sweats 😂 please tell me you have more like this. During heat treat I noticed sometimes my steel losing its magnetism completely (until being cooled) yet never saw it mentioned…until now. Cheers brother!
I'm glad you found it useful! Thanks for watching!
@@TyrellKnifeworks watching again! Another thing I noticed, when I’d leave a small magnet on the blade until it fell off inside the gas forge, (so I’d know when it lost magnetism) I also noticed those magnets never worked again 😂
Thank you for the great tips. So if you had to make a stock removal knife from a piece of leaf spring, how would you make the knife and how would you heat treat it?
First off, leaf springs are typically curved and 3/8” thick. You can’t really just do stock removal, you’ll have to forge them. Treat it like 5160 unless you know different. Most of them are 5160. Thanks for watching.
Great video. Sadly i dont have an oven just yet. Hopefully soon.
Thanks for checking it out, JP. I may do a video on building a PID controller for your forge thanks to a viewer supplying me a parts list. 👍🏻
@@TyrellKnifeworks ill be patiently waiting for that video
Thanks so much for this video. Funny enough I just picked up Dr. Larrin Thomas' book last week and I'm currently reading about the heat treatment process for different metals. It's honestly been somewhat of a black box after my first knife making class. This is a great reference and I really appreciate you sharing your insights.
I was wondering, with pattern welded damascus, how do you account for the slight variation each metal needs to heat treat? Are they similar enough that you don't need to change your process, or do you do something else?
By the way, have you seen any of Larrin's videos on CZcams? Super informative as well, especially when he gets into the different alloys.
That's a great question, John. The key is to use steels with the same heat treat. 15n20 is basically 1080 with 2% nickel added so its the same heat treat as 1080/1084/1095, which is why they're always paired together. I don't recommend using 80CRV2 with 15n20 for damascus since they have slightly different heat treat recipes. It's not a dramatic difference, but still it's not the same. I don't heat treat 80CRV2 with Park50 and use ParksAAA instead. So you'd probably get less hardness on the 15n20. Some people use Parks50 with 80CRV2, but it does recommend something slightly slower. I've certainly got a copy of Dr. Larrin Thomas' book and I've seen many of his videos. Most of my heat treating recipes are taken from his research. Thanks for watching!
How much importance do you put on the time between quench and temper? I have tempered blades the following day, but you have tempered way more than I have.
You are just taking a risk. It’s not uncommon for a blade to crack hours after being quenched. The quicker you get it into the temper to relieve those stresses the better off you are.
Wish I had seen this video a year ago, Thanks
Thanks for watching, Ben!
What hardness test kit do you recommend ? Or how to test ?
I assume you aren’t talking about a full hardness tester (they are about $1600). The hardness files are the next best thing. Check the video description for Amazon links for those. Thanks for watching.
What temperature the oil before quench?
Hi, maybe You can adjust Your 5160 heattreatment with the knife steel nerds blog, is a very good study. Or maybe if your already see it You could tell as your opinion
I read that post recently. Interesting that Larrin suggests Parks50 when his own book says medium/fast quench. He’s also done studies where 5160 would quench fine in canola (one of the very few steels that do). Must be new data he’s done. I’ll have to review it a bit more. I don’t use 5160 that often so it’ll be awhile before I get to it.
Hello everyone👏👏🥰🥰
Thanks for watching, Pu.
Let me add my vote for getting a proper heat treating oven. I gritted my teeth and bought one because I believe there's absolutely no way to do all these steps properly without one. I cannot in good conscience sell a knife if I simply guessed at temps.
Yup, I agree. Once you’ve done it a while, you gain the skills to heattreat in a forge, but starting out, it’s pretty variable.
I have annealed 1095 So after grinding and drilling do I go back and normalize, anneal, grain refine, then final grind and handle .?
How do you know it’s annealed, did you do it? I would still do all the steps.
Makes sense , just paid $2400 for an oven why not use it :). Are you an engineer ? I’m a mechanical engineer
@@donwalker6267 I’m a director of engineering at a software company. 😉
I’m a director of engineering at Pratt & Whitney in FL. Military jet engines , u make knives as a hobby ? Very impressive shop.
I’m a Woodturner for last 20yrs, just starting with knives, I have the equipment just need to practice and learn, you are one of the best I’ve seen on utube for teaching
Hello, such good info in this video, but i have a question. Why 2h twice of temper? Is not to mucho time?
To quote Dr Larrin Thomas from Knife Engineering: "Austenite is not fully stable at room temperature and so it can transform during tempering. The austenite can transform to bainite or ferrite plus carbides, both of which are decomposition transformation. Another transformation is destabilization of austenite where carbides form within the austenite during tempering which reduces its carbon content, raising the martensite start temperature. Therefore, multiple tempering cycles are recommended, because the newly formed martensite needs to be tempered so its not brittle". That might be a bit too technical, but in short, you need to remover all the retained austenite and this needs to be done twice, sometimes 3 or 4 times in some steels. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks yes it help, o like this technical info. But it Will not reduce the hardnes of for example a 1095 if there is that time of temper?
@@TyrellKnifeworks or a other example, i don't know if You try it, i was experimenting with sanvick 14c28n and i been recomended a temper at 200*C for only 45min in one cycle
@@matiasshanahan5164 The temper will always reduce hardness of any steel. You want to remove as much retained austenite so that it reduces brittleness. That removal of austenite will reduce the hrc value, but will give a lot more toughness to the blade. If you tested it after the first 2 hours before the second temper, you might notice a difference in hrc after the last temper. But remember, hrc is not everything. For 1095 you should be able to easily get 65 hrc out of the quench and then temper down to 60ish.
@@matiasshanahan5164 That could be possible, I've never worked with 14c28n steel. It's all about retained austenite. If its gone in a single temper cycle then you're ok.
Dennis, you didn't list S-series steel in the quenching slide, what's recommended for the shock resistant steels?
Check Larrin’s book for those. I don’t use them and I didn’t include steels I don’t use. They would probably be similar to CPM154 I suspect. For steel choice, it depends on what the purpose is. Do you need stainless? If so I’d just go to Magnacut. Thanks for watching
@@TyrellKnifeworks do I need stainless? Stock? No, I have a trailer load of stainless counters and tables, etc. from a restaurant I used to work at that remodeled. If you meant information on heat treating stainless, then yes, I need all the info I can get.
And do you mean Larrin's knife engineering book? I'll have to check it out.
@@billwoehl3051 your response is extremely confusing. You plan to make knives from stainless countertops and sinks? I’m assuming not. If you need heat treating info on stainless steels, get Dr Larrin Thomas’ book, Knife Engineering.
@@TyrellKnifeworks I don't think the sinks and cou terrors are thick enough unless I can put em in a canister and weld them together, not sure of the type of stainless and it might not harden, might incorporate some into a blade, hammer, axe, or other project along with some 1095, or 5160, or jackhammer bit, axle, etc. I don't have easy access or a lot of money to buy new steals for practice until I get decent at it.
@@billwoehl3051 For sure those are not hardenable steels and also won't forge weld well at all. Steer clear.
Is the volume of oil you quench in critical ? Ie, how many oz or gal to use
The volume is very important. You need to have enough oil so that there’s enough to cool the blade and it doesn’t heat up too fast. Typically at least a gallon, preferably more like 2 or 3, particularly if you plan to heat treat multiple knives. For example you wouldn’t want a 1.5” tube with oil to heat treat because the oil around the blade would heat up too much and not cool the blade. You need enough volume around the blade.
6” dia PVC pipe 2’ long work .? I have a ammo box that hold a gal
@@donwalker6267 both of those work. The ammo can less so if you intend to do longer knives.
Hey Tyrell. its me again. Quick question quick question.... i have an old metal file. its obvious high carbon. quick search will show minimum at 1%... i want to make a blade out of that. what temperature should i use and which quenching medium... as high carbon falls in the 1095 rage which is parks-50. but 52100 is ball bearings and have higher carbon, and you showed 'maybe canola oil' so i don't know. maybe you can make a knife out of one and check.... Also why cant we use water? the ancient Japanese making Katana's only used water and they had HIGH carbon steel. so i guess the water is not ice cold but has a luke warm temperature before quenching?
First, (good) files are usually very close to 1095 steel if not 1095 exactly. You can usually make good knives out of them. As for quenching, the proper quenchant would be Parks50. You could use water but it’s a huge risk. Yes the Japanese used water to quench, they also had huge failure rates. It’s up to you. Parks50 lasts forever if you don’t flame it, so it’s a good investment.
@@TyrellKnifeworks EPIC. Thank you......coz i want to make a san mai blade from leaf spring(outside) and a metal file. tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy and heat treat a hamon line but we will see. my blade making road won't be long though. a year or two at maximum. what else can the parks50 be used for if i purchase it, just so that it does not waste.?
@@ricksmit2239 Watch my heat treating video here: Triple-T #97 - Heat treating
czcams.com/video/akQaQwciVCs/video.html Also, I tend not to do a hamon on San Mai’s. It looks odd to have a line over a line.
@Tyrell Knifeworks You are speaking the truth sir. but i do not intend to acid etch my knife so the difference in types of steel should not be so visible. and i figure that the differential heattreat of hamon will keep things soft and strong allowing me to temper at lower temperature. but yeah was just my plan for one knife. not all.
When I see you upload, my brain goes
metal sharp
shiny
color
tap
Or
know now
no metal
sad
I like how your brain works. 🤣. Thanks for watching!
A question: When you say for example “set oven to 1575, insert blade at 1400, soak for 10 minutes”. Do you mean soak for 10 minutes after the oven reaches 1575 or soak for 10 minutes after you place the blade in at 1400? From my oven it will take 15 to 20 minutes only to reach 1575 from 1400. Thanks!
The timer starts when your oven reaches the set temperature. Thanks for watching, Dmitry!
@@TyrellKnifeworks Thanks for your answer Dennis, I usually put mine in at temperature and start the timer when the oven comes back to temperature again.
@@dmitryk754 I assume you have a 110v oven. Your method probably makes more sense for that. 👍
Could you do a video on beginner Damascus?
I just did the intermediate series on making twist Damascus by hand. Check that out.
Thank you sir, I have been forging for about 4 years now and I never had anyone to teach me besides CZcams so your triple T series has been a good help as I move on to more advanced projects
@@Ethan_Lowe If there are topics you want to see discussed in the future, please let me know. I'm always looking for ideas for Triple-T videos.
Awesome I definitely will I, am also planning on doing some sort of beginner series some day in the future once I feel I could explain things better but right now I am really just documenting my personal projects.
Did you ever send out your knives to be heat treated ?
No, I’ve always done my own heat treat. Thanks for watching.
Can u over quench ? Ie leave in oil to long ?
After quench let knife cool to RT ?
@@donwalker6267 No, you can't over-quench. Leave it in the oil for at least 30 seconds but you could leave it there for hours and it wouldn't hurt it. After quenching, I just wipe with a cloth and let it cool to room temp and then it goes directly into temper. Because I have aluminum plates setup for doing stainless, I place all my blades into that aluminum vise setup after quenching and it sucks the heat out of the blade immediately while keeping it completely straight. It helps with warps and I highly recommend it.
لو كان هناك فيديو توضيحي مع الشرح لكان افضل ❤
Thanks
إن إظهار المعالجة الحرارية لا يساعدك كثيرًا حقًا. عليك أن تتعلم الأساسيات أولاً.
You might want to check with your team doing the closed captioning. At the 5:04 mark, I had to laugh because the cc literally says "so if it was say 10.95 for example you would heat it to about 13.75 fahrenheit then whether using". I don't think this was what you meant to communicate to your audience. Most people will under stand what you meant but.........
It was talking about annealing. A sub critical anneal for 1095 would be about 1375F. And I don’t have a “team”. That’s all Google Translate manually done by me. Thanks for watching
Did you know that COLD treating works even YEARS after forging ?!
Have a look over to "Applied Science" chanel for this topic.
I did mention Cryo treatment in regards to stainless steels. This isn't typically done on carbon steels as the benefits are negligible on most of them. Thanks for watching.