MY RELATIONSHIP WITH LAND ROVER. Andrew StPierre White. 4xOverland
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- I have been a motoring journalist since 1993 when my first book was released in South Africa. I have since made it my profession and have written for several magazines in three countries and made hundreds of motoring TV shows. When I started doing this, I was admittedly very pro Land Rover, and it showed in my work. But I soon realised that to be so biased towards one car manufacturer was not only unacceptable, it wasn’t fair on my readers. But this wasn’t an easy thing to do. I loved Land Rovers. But as my experience grew, I began to love other 4x4s as well. I had my first taste of a Land Cruiser around 1997, Pajero in 1998, Mercedes G-Wagen in 1999. Because this helped be have a broader outlook on what was sold from showrooms, I began to see that my views of Land Rovers was not a result of analytical thinking, but blind brand loyalty. And with that, I started to look at my beloved brand with clear vision. They are and never were perfect. And neither was their marketing department who were the first 4WD maker to blacklist me because I had published something they didn’t like. Manufacturers do this around the world even today, and only the very rich and powerful publications that do not rely on ad spend, can avoid it and be completely honest in their reviews. But I was determined to stay neutral, to report my findings as I saw them, honest with everything. But I paid the price. This is that story.
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The LR4 videos were, I think, probably more interesting than some of the videos featuring vehicles that are modified. The great majority of 4x4 owners (like me) have 'out of the box' vehicles with none of the clever (expensive) fiddly bits added. Although I love watching your current build and Ronny's videos with heavily modified 4x4s, those types of vehicles are simply out of reach for people like myself. It is fascinating to see what a 4x4 can do before all the big tyres, high lifts, diff lockers etc. have been added.
Andrew...this....THIS!!!, is why i love your videos, because compared to most of these other 4x4 reviews, yours i'm glad to say, are 'from a true 4x4 enthusiast, not some desk sitting, boss heeding, sycophant breathing journalist review whos' review is always so optimistically predictable. Good stuff mate, keep it going.
I have never owned a 4x4 and there is a good chance I never will. I have never been any great distance in one other than hotel experiences for a few hours. However, I've still watched a tonnes of your videos and found every single one utterly gripping (no pun intended). I think this is testament to your character and manner, etc. Well done Sir, and thank for very much. I look forward to many more. All the best from sunny Scotland.
As other people have commented, no VC. The auto and manual D2's both had the LT230 transfer case. The facelift model, with the CDL internals and levers is known as the D2a not a series 2 2.
Great story. Now, I can't wait for you tell a story about the G-Wagon from your previous program.
Great story Andrew. My dad is a Land Rover guy, and had a 1997 manual Disco I, and that's what I learned to drive off road. We lived in Colorado and anytime we went out, I was driving.
Great storytelling!!
Do more story times!
And give LR a call, they have so many new cars (disco, disco sport, velar!!) & I wonder if they're any good.
Some of the Disco 2's still had centre diff lock, but it wasn't connected to the lever!!!! Crazy!
Thank you for a fantastic video. You are great at telling the story. Love the small clips.
my relationship with land rover (and the service department)
Absolutly brilliant! You come out as the most experienced and truthful rewiew man ever! Buing my first disco 4 next week and this made me just more sertain its the right choise! Thanx a lot. And by the way! The baboon pass series are also totally brilliant! Best regards Torgrim from northermost of Norway!
Once more a great story.
I agree with you regarding the D2. It was overconfidence in a electronic toy. The curious thing was that the CDL was always there, just lever was different of the D1.
One of the most common mod made by D2 onwers in to fit the D1 lever....
Just to conclude, I have two off road brands, LR and Toyota.
What I really miss is though and solid Land Rover, not a posh SUV.
Your a very honest man John. I admire your integrity. You really have to admire the man from LR that gave you the discovery4. I think, with the judgement of time, that the discovery4 might turn out to be the best LR ever. We are in a era of transition with EV’s, SUV’s made for school runs etc. I really think the LR4 was the pinnacle of comfort and competency in off-roading. Ashphalt or dirt, it could do it all
Hello Andrew. Been enjoying your videos. Even these older ones. :) South Africa is not the only place you find journalists being black listed. TFLTruck/TFLCar got blacklisted by Subaru when they proved that a Subaru (can't remember the model off the top of my head) was not as off-road capable as advertised. And the off-road test they take the cars and trucks on is nothing compared to what you took that Land Rover over.
I have a Land Rover Discovery 2 with CDL and it works good. I have drove one without and it's big defense. Keep the awesome videos coming. 👍
Great story of how you maintained your journalistic integrity!
i absolutely love your storytelling, Andrew. I own a 2004 Discovery 2, 4.6 v8, with the automatic gearbox and manual locking center diff. I am a fairly new off road enthusiast, and the D2 sure helps me get some places. There is something about being off road, in nature, in the woods, that speaks to me. The vehicle is just a tool.
Disco's don't have viscous coupling. They have either an open center diff in the Transfer-case or you can get a center locking diff. Only Range Rover Classics had the Borg Warner viscous coupling at the time. Earlier Range Rover Classics had the LT230 locking transfercases. In 1989 They went to the Borg Warner transfercase.
You are a rare breed Andrew, one of the very, very few motoring journalists with credibility. And we thank you. Most other so-called 'motoring journos' from any publication with advertising, are just fellatio providers for their advertisers, and an unsuspecting public is fed a lot of horse excrement. You're calling it out as it is, and it is always refreshing, despite the inexcusable behaviour from Land Rover and Ford in the examples you described. Top job on keeping it real Andrew.
Fair comments Andrew. I simply like my 2002 Auto V8 D2 ACE (without CDL at all - don't even have the selector shaft!) first and foremost because it is simply a pleasure to drive and has character. I guess I have been a lucky owner because I have had very little issues in my 7 or so years of ownership. Apart from a crank angle sensor, and an alternator, it has been routine servicing and wear and tear items. She is getting a little loose and tired now at 356,000kms but when I park, I still look back at it. I do agree that the CDL delete on the D2 was a dumb move by LR, clearly trying to see if the general public even noticed it was missing (gives good reason to not offer it later on) but backfired and undid all the other great things the D2 had over the D1, such as ABS, ACE, Traction Control, Self-levelling Air bag suspension, etc. etc.
Oh, minor thing = the later D2 was called D2a, not D2 Series II, because it was already showing a Series II badge on the original models rear door.
Yes, that is one hell of a bloody bumpy road Andrew. However, for me the most amazing part is that no one was needed to push or pull the Discovery 4!
Time for a Disco 5 review! I'm guessing your experience will be closer to that of the Disco 2 than the Disco 4. Prepare to be blacklisted again:)
My 2004 Discovery 2 has the CLD and it's exceptional in all aspects because it's an automatic!!!
That meeting with the marketing team at Land Rover sounds like a great moment in life.
Land Rovers biggest mistake with the D2 was no CDL until late in the model, I was lucky enough to have one with CDL and TC and It did work very well together, but yes without the CDL you would really need to spin the wheels .
I dont have one on mine too :( However iam going to retrofit one since i do have the internal guts for it just the stick missing. But this has to be done after chasis swap :D
TVR161. Please allow me to make a point. Land rover biggest mistake on disco 2 was no cdl LINKAGE until late in the model...
The 98, 99, 2000 had cdl but no linkage unless there’s any particular country spec model out of my info wich came without it.
01 and 02 came without it.
03(first facelift I believe) came without it.
04 came with it(and with likage) as an option if asked on purchase after customer requests.
So in the earlier models(mine is a 99) you could add the disco 1 cdl linkage and use both cdl and tc separate or toghether.
In the later ones it was necesary to get the whole cdl parts and add them to the transfer cage.
Cheers
You are the greatest storyteller! :)
Your trip up Baboon's Pass is part of why I bought my D3.. I've been thoroughly impressed with how amazing that thing is on the road for how good it is off road. I don't think there's anything else (in the states especially..) quite like it. And I too know your trick on getting it into "extended mode" ...Sometimes quite handy indeed! It's amazing how capable it is on my 30 inch BFG AT's. I had a Land Cruiser 80 before, 33" tires, with full front/rear diff lock n' all, and this D3 will go through exactly the same terrain and in some cases do better, as I think the departure angle is better on the D3. It's an amazing vehicle, and I hope someday, you'll be able to regain a relationship with Land Rover, as I think they could use your input on the newest models. I'm not sold on the Discovery 5 AT ALL.
I’d suggest looking at service history just like anything else. Neglected Land Rovers (as with most euro brand vehicles especially) will not age well. A well kept one will be reasonably reliable, though if you’re trying to buy a complex modern 4wd that is now getting to be a teenager in age, you will have to fix things now and again. Best advice is to learn how to repair and maintain it yourself to save money, or consider a newer/cheaper alternative if you’re not mechanically adept.
The full time 4wd 80 series Land Cruiser also had viscous couplers in the center diff and I was shocked to learn that LR took out the CDL because if I forget to lock my center its a huge difference in the rough stuff. VC's just don't have the ability to non-destructively lock in a way that is critical! I had my front driveshaft out recently for service and I tried to drive the cruiser without the cdl engaged and the revs went up, and I barely moved forward at all, I could have kept trying but I would have fried the VC. Push the button, lock the CDL, drive around town in 2wd like normal. How they thought they could do without is beyond me.
Thanks Andrew, Im currently in the market for a 3 or 4. I had a brief 1 year relationship with a disco 1 and loved it except the v8 drank too much fuel (didnt have any tech issues) and have always wanted back into the fold, like you said you learn with the vehicle and come to know their nuances. Some of the 4's still have the 2.7 in it and i dont see the point of buying a 4 with the same engine config of the 3. Your story videos are as good as your actual adventure videos like this and the Mitsi video, i was always a fan of the mitsi in the 90's and early 2000's because they made basic quality for 15-20% less than toyota, a pajero was on my list but to be honest would probably never do anything remotely as difficult as days on end sand driving, but these things sit in the back of the mind uneasy. Thanks again
Speaking as a Disco 2 owner, I think it's brilliant off-road... once you get one with a CDL and, ideally, fit a pair of Ashcroft lockers.
Andrew's negativity about the D2 is more related to LR's unrealistic claims than any unsolvable problem with the vehicle.
If cost is your sole criteria for buying, go for a Disco 1, be prepared to deal with the rust and then drive it until the wheels fall off.
If, OTOH, you're prepared to do a bit of work, a Disco 2 will provide you with a better vehicle once you've done that work.
The TD5 engine, once properly serviced, makes the vehicle much, much better than the Disco 1.
If you've bought an early D2, you'll need to change the head-gasket and replace the plastic head-location studs with metal ones and slot the exhaust manifold while you're at it.
Bin the suspension airbags and ACE and replace them with standard springs and ARBs.
Find yourself a gearbox with a CDL if the vehicle didn't come with one.
Consider fitting at least a rear diff-lock.
Go to somebody like Alive and get a stage 2 tune for the TD5 engine.
Yes, it's a fair bit of work but most of it involves spending money that you'd spend after buying ANY standard 4x4 and you'll end up with a vehicle that can leave a Disco 1 for dead both off road and on it.
Great story.
It is an incite into how many great companies go bad after being so great.
Once the men in suits become the majority, they stop listening to the engineers or the ones who do the job.
The Japanese have a totally different philosophy, don't worry about all the marketing lies, just build the best product you can.
I have loved Land Rovers all my live but I can't fit in with their philosophy so I now drive a Land Cruiser 76 and adore it.
I could listen to this guy all day....
This is really cool, and shines some light on why it's so gorram difficult to find any real data on the Land Rover awd systems.
Great Story Andrew! Quite a few lessons in here. Very poignant!
Very nice video and story telling, Andrew. Thoroughly enjoyed it. 👍
love the canning stock route backdrop mate its so good. tomorrow i go to Melbourne Australia's 4wd show and needed something good to watch tonight, so you set me up with something to watch that i hadnt seen yet.
Enjoy the show. I thought about going, but decided not to.
yeah i thought you would have a bit much on your plate for now looking forward to the canning stock trip. take it easy
Totally agree about the land rovers available for test at the overland expo in 2017. What was it that you said once - wheelspin can be very hazardous to your wealth? I had no control on the course. The steering radius kept changing, the throttle response kept changing, the vehicle kept pulsing and vibrating and sliding. It was nonsense. I much preferred my F150 with its part-time transfer case and manual rear locker - at least it was consistent in how it responded to the road and to my inputs.
You are full of wisdom Andrew. Thanks for all your insite 😉👍
Great Story Andrew :) Love my D4 :) Handles all sorts of terrain like Julimar, Wilbinga and the Darling Range in WA with ease :)
Another excellent video. Keep up the good work. So far I've loved wheeling my 1992 RRC with the Auto and BW xfer case. My viscous coupling still works. I do however look forward to new lockers and re-gearing one of these days. :)
Love it. Like all the stuff you do Andrew. You were talking about how you inspire people... Well I just myself my first landcruiser.... :-) Looking forward to the first trips....
Gunnar Wiegers ii
Hi from Saudi Arabia.
I know that motivation drives enthusiasm plus their own passion. Really like, love & appreciate what you have been doing, an i am so proud that i am in my twenties and such thought as you have. its the guys like you whom making all the worthy channel worth been subscribe and watched. BTW i really like the DISCO-5 joke really nailed it ^__^.
If by any chance you read my comment (and felt free to) kindly requested to feedback even in private cause i would be honored if you would have answer a tiny question that i have which needs an expert real desert drive through kind a guy. FYI i have been searching a lot and youtubing a looot regarding to. Thanks.
Such a great story! Thank you for sharing.
Mr
I have a few years on me, I have owned a 59 S1, S2 2a 3 , td5 tr 2000 and now D4, so yes have stuff to learn
Glad LR and you are again upon speaking terms
Great video! Would love to see more of these storytime vids. Really fascinating stuff!
Sorry but your information on the D2 is completely wrong. The Discovery 2 came with the same transfer case as defender on both manual and automatic there was never a viscous coupling on discovery 2. The early ones actually came with the difflock still in the transfer case but with no linkage to the lever in the cabin, this is very well documented online, I myself have an early auto D2 and I have reconnected the difflock to get it working, no viscous coupling in sight! I imagine the manual one of the event you were add had no difflock linkage connected.
Also your information on the traction control isn't quite right, the system is able to brake BOTH wheels on an axle as well as individual ones. This has the affect of sending torque from for example the front axle where both wheels are spinning to the back through the open centre diff. This was the reason Land Rover decided a difflock wasn't necessary. However it is definitely less effective than a locking diff as like you state you have to get wheelspin in order for the traction control to work.
How do I know this? I work for JLR and there are guys here that engineered and delivered the D2 driveline back in the 90's that still work here, since buying a Auto D2 I have been able to ask people why it was the way it was.
andrew clarke. Some good real info about disco 2.
I've got a manual 99my wich I added the 300disco1 CDL linkage to. So now it's even better.
My question is, given the fact that the CDL alone(in the older ones) seems to be not enough to keep the car going in some situations(as shown in lots of videos), as oposed to the same spots made with the disco 2 with TC, why so you say/think the CDL itself(and alone I understand from your words) is better than TC alone? (Btw I think having both together is the best option and so I did to mine). Thanks for your opinion. Cheers.
There are different benefits from having a locking centre diff and traction control, a combination of the both is obviously the most capable.
However to answer your question, it depends on the situation you're in as to what is most capable.
If for example you were on a steep slippery field with no centre difflock on a discovery 2 and a locked centre diff on a discovery 1 the discovery 1 would undoubtedly be more capable as both front wheels would try and spin with the open centre diff and the traction control would have the brake both front wheels to send torque to the rear ones.
However if you put a disco2 with an open centre diff and a disco 1 with a locked centre diff on cross axle terrain where opposing wheels either side of the car lose grip than the traction control has a massive advantage over the disco1 and these are probably the videos you've seen.
Hope this helps...
andrew clarke. Thanks a lot for your answer and please forgive me the delay in coming back here.
I just wanted this explained in a tecnical way by somebody with 1st hand info and knowledge so that Mr. Saint Pierre White could come back here and say “ok I’m sorry guys, I made a mistake”.
This will never happen as he is always right and it seems only land rover makes mistakes(and mitsubishi, and lada, and mahindra, and...everyone except toyota and the isuzu d-max, and I can’t say anything about patrols because aussie parts dealers say they’re worse than toyotas for them because they’re too reliable so not that much parts selling as toyota ones, so I prefer to say I’ve never tried one).
Instead of recognising a mistake he goes further saying “so why did they take it out after years of working good? To save money?” And these kind of “pearls”. So he can maybe missinform some more people without tecnical knowledge and go on defending(without any fair fact) that he’s right.
Cheers
andrew clarke by the way, fantastic example and explanation. Thanks a lot
i agree with you. I have a late d2, so my lt230 came without the difflock, not even possibility of adding a linkage. All was well until traction control did not work one day and left me stranded, as you said, without cdl and tc the d2 is effectively a 2 wheel drive. To fix this I have now fitted an lt230 from a defender, so I now have 1:4 gear ratio (allowes me to fit 31" tyres), cdl and traction control which work in harmony and may i add, it is now much more capable than my buddy's twin-locked hilux, even if I am running all terrain and he is running mud terrain.
Super good story.....stay true, that is worth everything....
Andrew I would just like to point out that the Discovery 2 has the LT230 transfer box just like a defender.... no viscous coupling in there.
Early Disco 2 and the very last Disco 2 had the difflock
however the later 10p pre-facelift and the early 15p facelift models had no difflock on the lever and some had no difflock in the LT230 as well.
A stupid move by Land Rover, but one they made all the same... difflock with TCS is meant to be pretty unstoppable :)
An interesting and informative video. I’ve recently fitting diff lock to my D2. Can’t decide if I should use traction control and diff lock but it certainly performs better now.
Keep up the good work👌
Ronnie Dahl, are you ready to cover the Baboon Pass in your "rock crawler"? Great set of videos.
I worked for Jaguar, which soon was joined by Landrover for 9 1/2 years, so I feel some connection with many of their cars.
... I also got to do the Eastnor Castle course twice with them too !!
Andrew, I did watch them and i did love it. VERY technical driving. I would have lost money if I gamble. I would never believe a stock anything could make that trek. Your driving skills were and are amazing.
Andrew, will you be doing a overlanding trip to Fraser Island in the future? It's such a beautiful place.
wow interesting video. will be happy to take a drive into those Lesotho passes with my LR3
I had a grandmother of Welsh descent and she spoke the Queen's english, but she would still put in an extra consonant here or leave out a vowel there.
YES WATCH THAT VIDEO SERVICE ON DISCOVERY 4 TRIP AS WAS GREAT SEE WITH RIGHT DRIVER YOU CAN TAKE 4X4 DRIVER INTO RIGHT PLACE AS KNOW OLD DISCOVERY 1 WITH 4 GEAR ATUO BOX WITH TRANSFER BOX AND NOT LOCK IS ONLY 2WHEELS DIVER AS ONE FRONT WHEEL LEFT AND ONE REAR WHEEL RIGHT WHEN NOT DIFF LOCK .
Great story and great telling as well :)
Ive had a 2001 D2 manual for 2 years and have discovered the same issues regarding traction (or lack of it... ). Still ok but you have to drive it harder than normal when off-road. Bought an old second hand CDL so hopefully I should see a marked difference when hitting the fire trails.
Nice work Andrew...bring on the V8 troopy and Aus track stories :D
Alex Patea. You're about to see a completely new disco 2 after adding the CDL. It works awesome along with the TC. TC will actuate a lot less, only in some late traction loose. With some good at's, bf or grabber at2 style, or even some more mud-side like stt or x3 style, you'll have a really capable and comfortable 4x4.
Add a 2" lift, bumpers with better angles, detroit true trac "diff lockers" and a remap(for td5 engines), have those 4-5 critical spares, a nanocom and sime good maintainance, and you won't ever change that car.
Go and check offroad turkiye channel and you'll see what a disco 2 can become after some (big) money invested.
Cheers.
By the way, just as an appointment, disco 2's TC must be used the right way. If you know how to play with the accelerator, it takes less than half a second to "jump in" and brake the spinning tyre.
If you keep the same gas, it will spin more than necessary.
The real bad point of it comes in deep mud, when to much wheel brake dine by the tc can make you loose momentum and even stop the car. CDL(and abs fuse off or fuse switch for "extreme" moments) will solve it.
Cheers
Great story! Captivated all through.
Great vid amigo, but D2 auto dont have any viscous coupling. They have either and open transfer case + dif lock or the same transfer case without the dif lock (later facelift models). Only the P38 and Freelander had viscous couplings back then
Andres Villalobos Corea. I was thinking the same, I had to double check to make sure but you're right no viscous coupling. Good vid though.
Spot on, dissapointing that Andrew gets such an important part of the story wrong!
Andres Villalobos Corea Thanks for correcting that. Was thinking the same
Sorry man. But the performance of the two was very, very different. Can you explain that?
My D2 auto had the manual cdl on the high/low range selector, there's no viscous coupling, the transfer box is the same on manual and auto
Great Video. Perfect review about disco 2 and 4. In my disco 2 (Automatic) i put verry fast a center difflock. What a great difference. Traction controll in a Disco 2 is bad, in a disco 3 and 4 much better. Traction controll is always to late. Andrew I hope you are reviewing rooftop tent Eezi-Awn stealth.
Can you bend Land Rovers are into giving you a new 90 or 110, would love to see you push that to the limit :-)
Discovery 2 never had a viscous coupling and there was nothing wrong with the 4WD. It had excellent traction control and a CDL on the 2004 model I had. It was a great vehicle so I'm not sure why you didn't like it. You just didn't know how to drive it.
I've heard that Andrew while a good writer, isn't a good driver at all. The chap who started Landover experience south africa said he was totally incapable and not comfortable driving offroad.
Andrew I love all of the work that you do. Can you comment further on the tyre that you used on the LR4 please?
Andrew this was a fantastic video, I drive a Disco 3 and have taken it off road a few times, nothing too serious yet but am planning a long trip next year.
Is it possible to explain how to activate extended mode here or are you even able to make a video about it possibly?
Thanks for the outstanding content you create by the way.
Awesome video, Andrew. Great story.
Another great video Andrew. As said above, would like to hear your views on the MB G wagen... another favourite of mine! thanks for all your knowledge sharing.
come on Andrew - how do I get into extended mode on queue? It saved me big time once when stuck in a very stinky mud pool on my own with the sun about to go down -so I love it but would really really like to have it under control.
Zero wheelspin is a must for Eco drives in low rainfall area climbs , please !
Well done Andrew
I have never heard of a discovery one or two that had any other transfer case than the lt230. Was it a borge warner like in the range Rover's that you are referring to?
I know for a fact, NAS spec discoverys only had lt230. 99-mid 02 had the center locking diff, just no way to actuate them from in the cab, late 02-03 had no center locking diff a d 04 had a CDL with a shifter in the cab. In all my research I've never came across a d2 with a viscous transfer case.
RedEyed Jack. AND it was/is really easy to install the disco 1 transfer case locking linkage(or any aftermarket one). And really cheap.
So there you had in 1999 a car with permanent 4 wheel drive for the road with TC(now anybody come and say that it wasn’t safer in wet roads than the other cars at the moment), plus you had a locking center diff to make it 4x4 WITH traction control “emulating” locking diffs in the axles.
When you locked the center diff, TC would act a tenth of the times and, when it would, it would be quite smooth compared to the other vehicles with their tyres spinning.
Only 2-3 other vehicles at the time (of higher specs)had rear lockers(which was fantastic, by the way).
In all the other ones you had to install them aftermarket. And so you could do in the disco 2. Added to the center locking diff and the TC.
So, again, rubish?? Compared to the cars at the moment?
They didn’t pay you enough, did they, Mr Andrew?
You could say the angles were a lot worse in this model.
You could say this model’s clearance was worse respect to the disco 1 or, off course, the prados at the time.
But you called rubish to something that was completely new to the offroad world(and copied by EVERYBODY in the years to come), and with the proper knowledge, was a real help in offroad, apart of really safe onroad.
Rubish. Really? There’s some good blokes there in Oz still using disco 2’s with the 2 or 3 small mods it needs to become a really capable offroader TODAY. Tell them to take you on one of their trips and get your new modified troopy with you.
And lets see if the old rubish can handle the performance of your, again, modified troopy.
ACTUALLY, lets see if your modified new troopy can handle the performance of the old rubish.
And, if it happens, tell it as well(unless there’s any epigraph where the big T forbids you to do, if that’s the case).
Cheers.
@@checa160 D Lopez I know what your trying to do (and i'd love to see it). But there's no way Andrew is going to come on here and say sorry guys, I did poor journalism research about the D2 at the time and made a mistake. Not going to happen
S. B. I know. But now people can search and read and make a real opinion after studying the real thing. I’m happy if that happens.
Too many “influencers” say “not all the truth” sometimes. Cheers
great story really enjoyed that.Pity you hadnt of been my teacher at school i may have learned something.
Nice one Andrew. I will be having a hopefully long relationship with a Rover soon
I no longer have a relationship with LR. They now make luxury cars some made to look like adventure cars. But they are just too complex.The new Defender is wonderful in so many ways. BUT. Stay within cell range, always.
you need to come to Iceland and off-road here :)
Thanks for sharing! I am starting to like Land Rover more and more!
We agree. good chat
D2 with a centre diff lock would have done it easier. The D2 was the climax of LR off road vehicles.
thanks for the great video.
Andrew, I cannot find any mention of a Vicus coupling on a Disco 2 auto. I think that they are just natrually smoother than a manual. Last year we took 2 defenders a Volvo C303 and a Discovery 2 to Morocco, the Discovery was the only one to let us down in a big way.
The auto does not have the same central transmission as the manual. Fact. The auto has an central auto lock-up and from what I can remember it's a viscous coupling.
Land Rover only list in the parts catalouge for the Discovery 2 1998-2002 1 transfer box, they are the same LT230se on both cars. The difference that makes the auto better is down to the engine mapping and it being almost to responsive when linked to a manual. The auto provides much smoother power delivery as the tourque converter will smooth this out. The only lock up in the automatic transmission is the tourque converter at higher speeds. I love your videos as they are the most unbiased and comprehencive tests on youtube by a long way and I have been a member of your website for a long time. I am however sure on this fact with the Discovery 2. Keep the amazing content coming I cannot wait for the canning stock videos to come out.
You are correct Tom Winter, LT230 is the only transfer case used in any year model Disco 2 either manual or auto. And as you said, auto transmission models only had lock-up for the torque convertor.
The later RR classics had a viscous coupling that auto locked (89 onwards in the UK, I had one) . The D2 had an open centre diff with the option to lock (internally fitted, but not used in early vehicles, later had it removed completely then refitted and used by late model D2's). So three different configurations.
4xoverland. The auto has exactly the same “central transmission” than the manual. That transfer case/box is called LT230. REAL FACT BY PARTS CATALOGUE AND MODELS INFORMATION except, probably, for the one and only unit they gave you that day.
Come on Mr. White. Stop it!!!
You are digging your own reputation’s grave with this.
Ok. You hate the disco 2 and probably the whole land rover thing(although it seems in some of your videos about choosing vehicle that you’re taking more care in saying it).
So say you hate it. And say you hate pajero. And mahindra, lada, navara,almost anything that’s not a toyota. Easy!! And perfectly fair!!
But don’t say it’s rubish based on wrong informations, driving tecniques and personal opinions. It’s not fair.
And you describe yourself as an unbiassied, honest, right journalist/writer.
And I want to believe that.
Cheers
Good story Andrew. I thought it sounded a little familiar right up to when you mentioned the LR Experience videos, then I remembered seeing them. That series and probably many before it. I hadn't realized how long I've been watching your videos. Thanks for doing what you do. It brings joy to me in my living room when I can't be out traveling in the bush! And thanks for being an honest journalist as well and sticking to your guns. Obviously the new Land Rover marketing director saw the good in that.
I love your videos!
Not 100% sure, Toyota guy rather than landy but have friends of that ilk, but I've been told the early d2 does have the facility to lock the centre diff on the gearbox landrover just decided it wasn't needed and left out a way of selecting it but it can be retrofitted, allegedly!
Early D2 models do have the ability to lock the center diff - you can put a cable actuator on it to make it work... Later ones removed the actuator arm/thing so not possible... The CDL is a brilliant bit of kit especially if you run a Detroit Auto Locker in the Rear - a Detroit Tru Track in the front and have an TDI300 with Auto in 3rd... This locks the torque convertor and when all put together with a 2 inch lift and 235/85/16 Mud Tyres - you can go anywhere in a Discovery 1... Not so much the Discovery 2 TD5...
In 99 to I believe 01 you can activate the central diff by simply installing the discovery 1 shifter. I did that to my '99 D2. In '02-03 they removed the center-diff gearbox so you can't activate the CDL without actually removing the transfer case and putting in an older box (typically cost prohibitive). In '04 the public outcry was so great they put the CDL in from the factory and it's the cable linkage. This is the best year, as far as CDL is concerned, but it's also one of the worst years for the petrol gearbox (slipped liner issues).
Basically, with a D2, you need to replace the front cardon shaft with a greasable driveshaft due to the fact the grease in the stock one dries out at around 100k-150k miles and blows up on the interstate taking out your transmission in the process. Second, install the TD5 180F thermostat on your petrol/gas V8, the stock thermostat runs too hot and cooks head gaskets (this is typically why you find
Shaun Comper cdl internals were not present in 01-02 models.
It can be retro fitted. But why did they remove it? It had been fitted to RRs and Discos for decades. They took it out to save costs, thinking that the traction control could do the job. In theory it could, but in practice, it couldn't. That's why they put it back after about five years of D2 production.
4xoverland must take a special kind of genius, or an accountant, to save money by making a vehicle less cable and then add insult to injury by leaving the capability hidden in the gearbox! Must be a hidden gift from landrover for owners good with a spanner. Andrew, love your videos and especially the new land cruiser.
You mention 33" tires as big. Have you run bigger and how big would you go? I noticed your bfg's all terrains go up to 37"
Land Rover and especially Defender, leaves a lot of people envious! NICE.
Hi Andrew, whats your thoughts on LR4 compared with Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2. Which one is better.
interesting, I always wondered why there was no D3s in your mid 2000s videos
ok so I have land rover td5 auto 2001 that I have due to me fathers passing I desire to set it up as off road vehicle to go from Adelaide to cap York any truthful details of what I should get done???? its basically stock already spent 7grand getting its engine right
Stupid thing is at least in the states the D2 had the center diff lock in the transfer case for most years - just not connected so no way to turn it on!
So in summary then, D1 Good, D2 Bad, D4 Good - And ignore the bit about the D2 having a viscous coupling because it didn't- That was the Freelander 1.
Good video, thanks for the information, very interesting.
Andy Harrison.
Please, Double check that information as it os wrong.
No viscous coupling in disco to. Just transfer case LT230 with locking mechanism in the early and last years. No locking mechanism in the mid-era production models.
No locking levers inside the cabin. Must put a disco 1 unit or an aftermarket one if you want to lock the centre differential.
Cheers mate
Great in a desert, and a boardroom, not many can say that.
Your story telling , put the person on drivers seat and is like a VR for this episode...
I wish you could sit next to me in my disco and teach me how to drive my disco properly.
well done, i like you was a true lover of land rover, but as you they let me down and not me them. i would never by a land rover again and i use to work for British Leyland and land rover as an apprentice . not one of the mechanics that worked with drove a British car.
thks.
Brilliant
For us it just comes down to finances. Range Rover and Land Rover are more expensive to maintain simply because of their poorer mechanical reliability and longevity when compared to other brands such as Toyota/Lexus, GMC/Chevrolet, Ford, Nissan, etc. Having to bring a mechanic with you and pull a parts trailer in order to keep a Range Rover or Land Rover going is not desirable. These vehicles statistically won't make it to 300K miles, much less 200K and 100K without major mechanical repairs. I wish it were not the case because some of the models are nicely styled.
Not entirely correct, I had a 2002 Discovery TD5 manual in South Africa. The centre diff lock is there, but Landrover in their wisdom never made a way to connect it. There was an aftermarket kit you could buy, which I did, which worked perfectly. With the traction control and centre diff locked it was awesome. In the facelifted Disco 2 (2004?) this was corrected and they fitted the linkage.
I have owned several 4wd since then, all around the world, but the one that gave me the most pride and joy and I will always have a soft spot for was that Discovery. I went on to buy a Discovery 3 which was a better on road vehicle, but never felt as solid off road as the Disco 2. My relationship with Landrover is over because I think the current Discovery is just too expensive and road biased to be used off road.
Dear Andrew, please review a Nissan Patrol Y61. Thanks
Nuno Filipe Oliveira. No way meu amigo.
In Oz, parts sellers say they hate that car ‘cause, if they had to rely their salaries on how much they earn selling patrol parts, they would be in bankrupt.
It’s too insanely overengineered.
Apart from the heating issues with the 6th cilinder in the L6(easy to solve), the “not the best” fuel pumps or some known small things in the newer diesels, it’s an awesome car. Tough as a tractor, comfortable as a limoussine(the long one).
It lasts forever and it’s more capable and reliable than a toyota 76,78,79 or lc200 by a mile.
Miles away in confort from a defender and more capable if the defender doesn’t have rear lockers(the patrol has).
Absolutely awesome car...
What do you think of the new Discovery '5'? Can't wait for your review and testing!
Thanks for the videos,
(-:
The new Discovery 5 is not an off road vehicle. The rims are too big to air your tyres down to 15 psi, if you cannot get your tyres to 15 psi, it will not have sufficient traction, even with front and rear lockers.
@@davidkelly3779 I take your points Interesting to see what would come out of it with smaller wheels and a subframe lift from companies like the one in Australia Jay Austin if in not mistaken. 🙂
The episode where you guys paid people to put rocks in front of the rover.. I remember it well. Good episode
Good to see you back RoadTripVidz. Did you watch my final conclusion to the USA Overland series. I was wondering what you thought. Wasn't what you expected, was it?
Haha, no.. it wasn't. you got me there. I might have been a little quick to judge! My apologies good sir. As you were..
BTW. there are some great opportunities with a fellow named Mark Doiron here on youtube. You should check that fellow out next time you're considering a US Trip. You 2 definitely would jive.