DEFENDER 2020 press launch in NAMIBIA. How press launches are meant to work.
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
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If you are slightly reasonable.. you have to ask :
When Landrover sells 100 000 defenders how many will become overland vehicles and how many will be used in the cities
So who are their target market? 😉
My point exactly sir. Probably 95% city use. But LR already makes the RR, RR sport, Velar, Discovery and Discovery Sport, none of which are well suited to overland and all well suited for ordinary daily use. Why did they build another one? Or did they do something different this time? THIS is the question!
Ryno Opperman Land Rover killed his offroad market by killing the Defender, you are correct because 99% of there current clients go to the mall and back with their 19” wheel mall crawlers. I hope they decided that this car is for the offroad and overland market, thats what Defenders should be about
4xoverland I think it proves how uninspired and un-original they are... basically like Hollywood remaking the same movie over & over and “hardly ever” be revolutionary but just safely evolutionary follow sales..
Sony did that with the Walkman, and see what eventually happened to them...
They basically reacted to the market much like VW did when resurrecting the Beetle from death. It will probably sell just as well along the same lines as that update did in the end, those who wanted a model based on, rather than inspired by, the original will be disappointed, however it now appeals to so many more & makes financial sense in principal at least. Let's see how the parent doing the school drop copes with constant electronic failures at 8.30am with 2 kids on board..
@@4xoverland why did they build a 18in wheel(min) fully independent suspension monocoque chassis .The 18in wheel(min) tells the whole story
This is the type of content I love to see Andrew, honest and respectful opinions on relevant topics.
Honestly, I'd put more faith in what I'm told about the new Defender by a local farmer in the pub than what I might read in Autocar or see on Top Gear.
Touche
To many electronics on this thing, and from owning a RRS every time you change a module you need the garage to recalibrate the new unit, this is ok in the middle of the UK but not so handy in the middle of Namibia.
Both Autocar and Top Gear communicate honestly.
Rich Harvey You do realise that every new car in the world now has electronics? Fuel injection, throttle, brakes, airbags etc etc. - all controlled by ECU’s. Just because a few have thing like analogue gauges - don’t be fooled, they are driven by electronics. It’s the only way modern vehicles can meet emissions and safety legislation.
@@gilbert7794 So you think Toyota dont have any modules >
The guys from Overland Journal were involved in the press runs. IMO they have viable experience and credibility. They did a podcast and a CZcams video. They gave the new Defender a favorable review overall, complimenting the vehicles payload, dynamic roof load, towing, off road performance, and overall performance manners and that driver fatigue was low. They did raise question with the wheel size concerns, the airbag reliability, and the vehicles overall reliability long term. All fair points. I suspect Andrew will have a similar conclusion.
Did they talk about the options? Cause has no one bothered to compare their offerings to the aftermarket? They are fleecing their customers IMO. At least when I compare it to Canadian offerings.
There isn’t any aftermarket offerings yet as the vehicle hasn’t been released for sale yet
I found the Overland Journal´s review (and Podcast) easiest the best. They called it the "gentleman´s Wrangler" - much more comfortable on long runs and in general over rough roads, but not that good in hardcore offroad situations. Sounds like a viable option for overlanding.
If you wanted to hear a reasonable explantion for why certain things had to be changed from the old design and to see what this new car can actually do... Watch this video... czcams.com/video/M3_HDRc22IY/video.html
let's wait for a long tern owner report
LR Australia get your shit together and give this man a defender.
Not so sure LR would favour any negative comments. The new Defender needs to be a success for JLR to continue (in its current structure).
I've watched many reviews from the press event in Namibia and dont recall one negative comment. For a JLR product? Really? Everyone is aware of JLR promises of improved reliability on every new vehicle launch. Promises that never hold true. I for one would consider the new Defender (mk2) after the reliability has been proven. I'm not holding my breath.
@@3204clivesinclair They're banked their future on this car, they need the right channels to get through to the hardcore enthusiasts.
It's not a Toyota, he's guaranteed to hate it.
@@jonburchell2760 don't think so, he owed Land Rovers and only got to Toyota as performed better for his needs not because he hate LR. He will gave honest review.
@@nbell4166 thank you mate , people always thinks he is biased towards toyota , nope he is not, he has some issues with toyota too , but overall toyota is better for him, even mercedes is an option, but not many people uses mercedes either. even scotty kilmer who loves toyota also has things he hates about toyota
So here’s my take on the Defender- it’s not a Defender at all, it’s a relaunch of the Discovery. Here’s my reasoning:
1. The Disco was launched as a near luxury offroad vehicle, slotted to fit between the purely rugged but lack of creature comfort Defender and the superbly apportioned but extremely pricey Range Rover. A true allrounder, something you take the kids to school with, go shopping with, tow your boat with, go for a road trip in comfort with, or go offroading with. Look at the market segment the new Defender occupies- it is that same segment. While there may be no more rugged and spartan vehicle the LR family on the one side of it, the market segment is the same as that occupied by the Disco 1 and really all Discos (and LR3 and LR4) here in the States.
2. Let’s look at the underpinnings of the vehicle- namely the suspension and four wheel drive system. First, the suspension. It is the same air suspension that LR has been using in the Disco 3 and 4 now for like 15 years. While initially the Disco 3s had some issues with them, I have not heard of substantial issues with the units in the Disco 4s. All air sus is not created equal, and the reason Discos are not harsh like Roman is complaining about in the VW or Porsche is because they don’t use all of their extension in their offroad settings- there is more to be accessed should you get high centered and also to allow for articulation. It is also why you can lift them another 2 inches to fit 33s on 18 in wheels using Johnson Rods- even though you are taking up 2 more inches of travel, there is still plenty to spare to allow for articulation. Also, the air sus in the Discos works just like the new Defender in that when one wheel rises it send extra air to the other wheel to push it down. It is a very good system that works well offroad- as good as a solid axle- no, but plenty good for what 90% of people are going to be doing offroad. Second, the four wheel drive system. Again it is the same terrain response that has been used since in the Disco 3 and 4s. It is a phenomenal system- imo the best out there of any of the systems that aren’t just traditional front, rear and center lockers. Ford basically uses it in it’s vehicles (insert Raptor here), as they took it with them after selling off JLR. It has high and low range with a very good low crawl ratio. The terrain response adjusts throttle tip in, steering wheel sensitivity, and height, as well delivering power to the wheels in a capacity designed for the certain types of terrain. The Disco 3 and 4s also had the optional locking rear and center diffs called the Heavy Duty (HD) package, just like the new Defender.
3. Cameras, cameras and more cameras- yup, you guessed it, just like the Disco 4.
4. Towing and cargo capacity- Disco 4- 7,716 lbs. New Defender- 7,716 to 8,201 lbs.
5. So the basic underpinnings are an LR4. So now what does it take from the Disco 1 and 2? How about the swinging rear door with mounted spare tire. This wasn’t unique to the Defender, it was on the Disco 1 and 2 also. And the alpine windows- everyone is talking about how cool a desig touch from the old Defender they are- well they were also in the Disco.
So how good will this new Defender be? Well I think that depends on what one wants to with it. If you plan to go rock bashing and playing on black diamond gnarly trails in offroad parks, this isn’t the veh I would recommend. Then you want solid axles, coils springs, disconnecting sway bars, and traditional front and rear lockers (manual preferably bc I have seen plenty of electronic ones fail). If you plan to go overlanding or otherwise driving for several days out in remote stretches where there may be no help for days, then this is not the vehicle I would recommend. I would recommend something more mechanical so that, when it breaks, you can repair it on the spot. Oh, and bring spare parts. I love when people brag about the superiority of mechanical offroaders and then I run across them broken down on the trail and they can’t fix themselves bc they don’t have the parts or parts to improvise. But if you want an all around veh- one that will be good on road, especially on long road trips, one that can tow a 5000-7000 pound trailer, and one that can offroad on moderate trails (blues and some more mellow blacks, beaches, desert) and you are going out not too far from civilization- say days trips up to a long weekend or so, then the Defender will be a great vehicle for that. It is definitely a more well rounded vehicle than a solid front and rear axle veh, will tow more than most offroaders (so if that’s a necessary criteria it will exempt vehicles like the Jeep Wrangler from your options and probably put you in half ton truck territory), yet will still do what probably 95% of people do offroad with their dailies. So many rigs I see on the same trails I’m on doing the same features as me with my LR4 are overbuilt. I mean you don’t need 37s and solid axles to drive to your favorite surfing or surf fishing spot on the beach, or do any of the green and blue trails. And let’s face it- a lot of that is for the look, not the necessity. And if it makes you feel better, take the Defender name off the front and put on Land Rover and just tell yourself you got the new Disco, because in reality that’s what it is anyway.
Great post man. Reinstated my confidence that there are still reasonable people on the internet.
Craig Gagnon thanks man. When JLR release the new Disco and then cancelled the offroad version of it (the SVX) I thought I was done with LR. But then they released the new Defender, which I have to admit I had serious doubts about given some of the things we were hearing early on. But when it came out and I started looking in depth at it I was like- cool, LR is a possibility again for my next rig bc this is basically my LR4 with improvements for offroad that I hVe had to do myself and is a pain in the ass on the current model. Those are namely putting the spare back where it belongs instead of underneath, tie down points all over the wayback, 18 in wheels stock with some decent rubber available at time of purchase and of course now easily upgradable, and more easily modifiable (and even available at time of purchase) for things like winches, ladders, extra lights etc. Sure there’s no more truly basic, rugged offroader in their lineup anymore like the old Defender, and sure it would have been cool if they had, in addition to this, done one like that but updated it to meet safety and driving guidelines in countries like the US to compete more directly head to head with Jeep Wranglers. But for whatever reason they didn’t. But they did a good job with this and, for most of the people’s uses that will be buying the new Defender, whether it had come out more like the Wrangler or like this, will be more than adequate.
Your absolutely right. The new defender should be a bigger version of a jimny
joe hughes yeah- they kinda played a fast one on us. What they did was kill the Defender and give a proper update to the LR4/Disco 4. Since that’s what I want I’m happy. But I do wish they had also built a solid axle, coil shock, body on frame, all locker one too and called that the Defender. LR should always have something like that in its fleet imo. I think there still would have been enough sales to justify it- I mean if you make it old school it’s not like there should be a lot of R and D costs. Lol.
@@dadventuretv2538 All the Land Rover products were built with off road capabilities. The problem was: Range Rovers were expensive while Defenders were too harsh. Around the same time, Mitusubishi and others were producing off-road capable vehicles that were also civilised enough for city use. There was a serious gap in the line-up. This is where the Disco came in. It was not designed to be a strict off-roader. I was driving a Defender 110 when the Disco 1 came out. I was admonished by my collegues to dump it in favour of the Disco. Loved that 110.
Sour grapes anyone?! The reason that the majority of reviews are very positive is that pretty much every journo that attended the launch in Namibia, came away genuinely impressed with the vehicle. It's that simple. The journalists that were invited were experienced enough not to be wowed by the food and lodging and as such, deserve more respect. I was part of the photo/video team working on the event (freelance, not an employee and not a fan-boy) so I saw first-hand what the cars went through. I really hope you do get to properly test one some day.
Yes, I say "sour grapes" as well.
Cannot wait until you have one to really put through the paces. We so desperately need an honest review on this vehicle.
Andrew is Bias ,but pretends not to be
This is great stuff! Eventually Andrew will get hands on one, there is no escape. I'm excited!
This is the home of the Japanese Land Rover, all other Land Rovers don't get a shout unless it's a subtle dig.
Why is he so salty?
@@lor7780 More LOLZ. I've driven Land Rovers since the Series I - and once I owned a Hilux, but gave it to my daughter because it's so uncomfortable. I do 4 to 5,000 km a month in Africa and here's the unbias truth. They're all good vehicles, but they all have faults. All this tribal nonsense is just that: nonsense. I rarely break down, and certainly no more often than friends and colleagues in Cruisers.
Nice explanation of the psychology and business model of launches. But knowing that, I still thought the launch videos were fantastic entertainment - what a beautiful place and cool car.
Wanna do van Zyls pass
Must say they made good on tackling Van Zyl’s Pass, not many manufacturers would have taken that risk if they knew it wouldn’t. All the journalists they took there are from well known auto journals. In my view, they got their return on investment.
Surely, but did it give you all the answers about the vehicle you might have had at that moment? Probably not. That aside, it was great entertainment!
Imho there are no journalists any more. There are only publicists
You’re talking utter nonsense.
Sounding a bit salty on the whole here - 8:52 I watched 2 different Namibia reviews that mention some punctures, and several mentioned mpg/vehicle range
The main reason why I love your channel: you're an honest bloke. You cannot buy that. Thanks!
Come on Andrew, I love your videos and reviews and have been a subscriber for a long time now, but you really do come across as salty/annoyed for not being invited to the launch.
Understandable to degree, but then to go off on a tangent about not loving brands because they’re corporations out to earn money, was simply a step too far.
Of course we fall in love with certain brands. It’s natural. Yes, if you’re a journo and you’re clearly biased and that affects your review of a product, then it’s not on, but for everyone else, a manufacturer isn’t simply a corporation, and yes you can fall in love with a brand.
I honestly didn’t expect it of you to get so worked up over what clearly was the hump at not getting an invite or loan vehicle and be able to test and review the Defender yourself.
Many months ago, you had a live chat CZcams session here. When people asked about the new Defender, I think you may have read one of my comments and agreed on it.
The new defender is a Beverly Hills mall crawler loaded with trick Land Rover bits that will allow it to go further off-road than any other average SUV. Is it engineered for extensively long expeditions? No, no they’re not. But at least they’ll look good the one or two times they ever go down a dirt road up here in the states.
Somehow, Toyota still builds the 70 series. Land Rover threw in the towel when they stopped building the real Defender. I personally love the styling of the Defender, but I drive a 200 series as my daily driver/weekend camping and exploring rig. I really don’t trust anything else out there.
Keep up the great work. I can’t wait to see you get your hands on one and give it a real review.
we love the traditions of our Land Rovers, but we also acknowledge they're unreliable. If only LR could find a new owner who cares about quality. It would take a bite out of Toyota. A basic true reliable traditional lightweight LR made for off road and overlanding, waggon or tray, and another model for the city folk for the supermarket and school drop offs. The Land Cruiser 70 is still build as it's quality appreciated by the market, a great utilitarian vehicle
@@alanbstard4 staaahp it! You're making me drool with those thoughts... Hahaha
@@kieron3676 hi mate. Nice to dream
They didn’t throw in the towel they simply couldn’t keep selling it due to safety regulations. They started working on the replacement several years before stopping production it just simply took so long to get the replacement right
The new Defender is focus to their nowadays primary market...shopping mall crawlers. The payload seems enough to carry the "heavy loads" of the groceries bags, and go offroad, jumping the curbs on the parking lot.
The discovery 2 was revised to the discovery 2a which included the center differential lock from factory in 2002. Even the first "generation" of discovery 2 included the internals for the CDL to work it just didn't have the lever added from 19999-2000, and required you to get under the car with a spanner and lock in the CDL. The only years that Discovery 2 didn't have any ability to lock the center diff was 2001-2002 as there were no internals in the transfer case. The CDL and traction control is a great combination, they should have had it from the factory since the original version.
Agreed, some of the early 99 and 2000s didnt have them either with the linkage getting rid of old stock, they wont make them like the d2 again actually very reliable engine and gearbox just every thing else drops off of fails, but day that it doesnt stop it from running and plodding on, these new electrical ones are having gearboxes fail at 30k outside warranty they are fucking up there own market
Nicholas Grant ... yes, you can still buy the lever to retrofit today. Turns it into a completely different vehicle altogether.
But never fitted with the Borg Warner viscous centre diff transfer case if I remember correctly.
@@fishingwiththomas correct all were lt230 but the p38 and range rover classic had them, dont know why I think it was to be cheap and use old stock etc
Have a 2003 with no diff lock internals, I spent several weeks last year looking for a replacement D2 on Autotrader but couldn't see any with a CDL, think it was only the higher spec models where this was offered as an option.
As a long time Land Rover owner, I can attest to people thinking that LR can do no wrong! Those people are usually LR3-4 owners. As. Discovery2 owner, LR lost me when they ditched the solid axles. I agree the new Defender is for the most part the same vehicle they already make, just with a different body. As for Andrews comments about the Discovery 2, If you fit a center diff lock. The combo of cdl and traction control is very impressive. Especially in the 04 models. They have a better traction control module.
I believe during the Carfection Defender review through Namibia, they did indeed have a tyre failure.
I wonder how many. One or two is acceptable in that area. I've lost tyres there.
I think in the caradvice they mentioned that had two flat tyres? That could have been on a different trip? From the number of vids and 7 cars they must have done a few?
3 failures from what I've seen. 2 were from the same reviewer. Not surprised too much though due to terrain
Love your honesty have you have work in the field keep up your great work 🙂
@@willyd-adv Three? That's one of the points I'm making. Low profile tyres are not good for this kind of trip, and the brake callipers make fitting smaller rims impossible. Was this mentioned by any reviewer? I hope so. I think this is important.
I don’t disagree with anything stated in the video. However as a consumer I try to make a informed decision before making a purchase of anything. I do utilize reviews to help formulate a plan. I try to watch as may points of view as possible. Of course the reviews are subjective but I’ve grown to trust a few. Im all for a healthy dose of cynicism but I can’t drive this vehicle under ever possible circumstance and thus watch reviews of others who have. I watch fully understanding the manufacture wants their product to shine. I’m never going to drive any vehicle in Africa but I do appreciate the payload and towing capabilities. That is the most important part of the Defender for me. Anyway love your channel. Hopefully one day you will have a chance to drive one. Looking forward to your review.
Andrew, that’s in my opinion one of the best videos you have made, brilliant
The true test of the new Defender will be the long-term reliability reports. I am a die-hard Land Rover fan, I love their products and the brand, I’m not afraid to admit that. I have had 2 Range Rovers, 1 Classic and 1 P38, 2 Series 3s and a Discovery 2. I also worked at a Land Rover specialist for a year during my university studies of automotive engineering. Whether the new Defender is capable off road, or comfortable is irrelevant in my eyes. At the end of the day, an off road/workhouse vehicle is useless if it isn’t reliable, it’s no use being stuck in the middle of the wilderness. The one thing no Land Rover has ever been is reliable. I think the most reliable models are the Series Land Rovers, providing that rust is under control. Land Rover have a real problem with their electronics and wiring quality. Most problems on a Land Rover post 1990 are electrical issues, either ECUs or wiring failing. They cram so much technology in and 9 times out of 10 it fails quickly. I just hope Land Rover can finally fix their reliability issues, although I doubt it. I believe Land Rover is well aware of their shoddy reputation but aren’t worried as they know they have enough fan boys who are prepared to look past the problems and buy vehicles anyway. Or really rich customers who aren’t bothered by taking it to the dealer every 5 minutes. I think Land Rover has calculated the cost of improving quality and how many additional sales they’d achieve, and I suspect the numbers don’t add up. So for me, whether the Defender is a good vehicle or not, all comes down to whether it can stand the test of time.
Great Review Andrew. Candid and honest as always. To your point about the tires, I've watched a number of these press reviews now and I can think of at least two which briefly mention stopping to repair a puncture!!
I'm always amazed at how inexperienced the some of these journalist are when it comes to driving off road. The Top Gear review for example, even starts off by saying 'Now, I've never really understated the fascination with off-roading' (paraphrasing a little). He was perfect pray for Land Rover and needless to say he was blown away with vehicle and experience by the end of it all.
As a land rover fanboy myself, I want you love it but, also value your opinion should you not. My gut feeling is you'll probably think it's a terrifically capable machine, however the usual reservations about reliability, air suspension and tire profile will apply.
I look forward to the video when ever that may be (hopefully soon)!
gont know why tyre profile matters the 79 series Toyota come new with 750 70 r16 tyres that look like they were made in the 1950s LOL Change the bloody tyres to your own choice !!
I dont understand many peple critisize defender using all round independet suspension without solid axle and ladder frame.Just lool back hummer h1 and lambo lm002,both of them using independent suspension but have incredible off road capabilty.I trust new defender has good off road capability compare to other brands.
Contrary to what you are saying at the 12 minute 50 second mark, the Discovery Series II automatic version does NOT have a" center viscous coupling locker". I know because I had an auto 1999 DII, and it's got the same transfer case as the manual which Land Rover had deleted the diff lock engagement lever. Thankfully these transfer cases still had the internals to engage the diff lock, which Land Rover in their incredible stupidity, removed a few years down the track. Then they realised the mistake of their ways and reintroduced the CDL internals back into the transfer case, and this time with a means of the driver engaging it.
I'm waiting to see the Ineos Grenadier launch.
I'm sure that they'll just let the car sell itself.
I used to bee very sceptical towards the new Defender. But after reading hundreds of comments from people who HATE it I have to say Im liking it more and more. Funny how your own mind and opinions work.
You're the best. not many honest reviewers out there any more andrew. a dying breed you are m8.
From a former engineer of aftermarket offroad suspension in the US ad EU I doff my cap to you Andrew. I love your honesty and candor. I honestly don't see myself buying a new Defender anytime soon, I'll stick to my Jeep Wrangler and my much hated Nissan Frontier (Navara) But I'm intrigued enough to see how the international versions go - typically the USA models are softened and luxurified (not a word but its apropos)
You should listen to Scott Brady’s podcast from Overland Journal where they talk about their experience on the event. It seems very honest and addresses some of the points you raise
Hi Andrew
Firstly I must compliment you on your channel as it is absolutely great and packed full of honest and useful information. I agree with you when it comes to reviews of a product. These days it is so scripted that it actually irritates me to the point where I just skip it and don't want to know anything about it. It tells you about the little things that is not of interest and which you can read on the brochure. What I like about your reviews is that you can see it is not scripted as you speak your mind and say what you feel at that moment. Keep up the good work and thanks for a great channel.
Andrew the D2 did not have a central viscous unit. The autos had a fluid flywheel like all autos. The traction control on the auto worked best because it was easier to stay on the throttle. The manual made that a little harder. The problem with backing off the throttle was that the traction control woild stop working and then as you throttled on it would have to recalculate...staying on the throttle was by far the best way to drive the manual even if only a little throttle was used. Having said that the auto gives more torque down at low revs due to the gearing down effect of the fluid flywheel. The facelift D2 in Aus all had CDL. And on The older D2 it was easy to retrofit. When fitted the D2 with it's low low range gearing, great articulation, and traction control working with the locked centre, and good clearance made it, dare I say it, unstoppable off road. It is seriously good. Cheers
Land Rover I’ve had a 99 discovery 2 with the manual transmission and to be perfectly honest I was impressed by the system, it got me a lot further off road then a lot of my mates would go, and with standard size tyres. The tech in the d2 now is 20 years old of course but it paved the way for modern 4wd tc systems.
There’s no such thing as bad feedback... at the end you’re helping them to produce a better vehicle.
If Land Rover don’t bow to give you a Defender, then they don’t want something out there 😜 So Land Rover do us all a favor! let Andrew show us the real Defender.
Even with negative review Andrew will sell more Defenders then these ass kissing journalists. By giving Andrew the vehicle at least you leave appearance that you have trust in your product.
Outtake at the end of you with your model Land Rover car zooming it around on the desk would have been hilarious 😂
Andrew, I reckon you are very entertaining to watch. I personally believe there are 2 types of motoring journalist 1) Those that do it for the money and 2) Those that actually do it for the experience. Yes both get paid to do it, but number 1 will tell you anything to make you subscribe to their way of thinking whilst number 2 will give you the absolute no sugar coated real deal review of what ever the said vehicle is ie: Yes the 2020 79 Series dual cab Landcruiser is awesome because of this, this and this but if they sorted this, this and this then it will be a better vehicle. Please don't change who you are Andrew.
Many years ago, I went on a corporate launch of the Vauxhall Frontera. Yes, there was an off road course and yes, I happened to mention that I could get around the course in any car and yes, the instructor asked me what I drove, then said there was no comparison and the Frontera was not a proper off roader. My vehicle? Still got it, Landrover series 3 safari. Would I have a new one? Probably not. Hate computer controlled cars!
Every car has computer modules now. If you hate computers, then why bother making any new cars at all?
2013 Defender owner here. Damn fine rant. And I'm in the club. I am impressed by the 2020 but I'll stay with the 2013.
I really want to love this new defender. Would love to see a base model 90
If some people miss the simplicity of the old Land Rover Defender, better go with a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado Commercial Van (sold in UK). Cheaper and with less electronics.
Watch Carfections review on the Defender from this Namibia trip!.. You'll love it!
Please someone do give this man a new defender. Love your honesty and you can’t be bought ... 👌
Andrew, you nailed it. As I watched a few of the reviews, I kept thinking, “The vehicles don’t seam loaded. Would it be best to ensure the vehicles are loaded for such an expedition?” If they were, no one comment as such. For any objective observer, for that is what I am, would take note that the journalist do not hide how well the manufactures treat them. So they are influenced to give a favorable review. Remain objective. Thank you for sharing you life, work and passion.
@@Thepigfromthepot how loaded the vehicle is would impact its performance. It is an important variable when going off road. I have not heard the journalists mentioning how loaded their vehicle is, 20%, 50%. They would have mentioned that variable as they go about bench-marking. Don't get me wrong, I think a review empty is useful, but it should be stated. The play field and rules should be set.
Consider, if the vehicles were 50% loaded, the journalists would be able to comment on the vehicle's behaviour in the different terrain, the suspension set up, giving a better idea of the vehicle's character.
land rover used to put their vehicles through camel trophy events upon release. now they drive them in the sand and through mud puddles and through two inches of snow. that tells me all i need to know
LR ought to have invited Andrew for the Defender 2020 drive in Namibia..... Andrew is an honest , no nonsense person..... Mr Tata do the needful pls.... certain amount of Criticism is good....
Always the thorough truth from Mr White. 👏🏼
I wish I had one now just to spend a day hanging out with you. You’re the best ! 😊
You are absolutely superb sir! Awesome knowledge and pragmatism and also courage to stick to your guns... Love it. Well done.
Couldn't agree more!
Here's my succinct assessment after driving the new Defender a year ago.
Spacious enough in the drivers compartment and second row. Control centre up front is modern, if not a little cluttered but clean otherwise. Perceived quality is good even with a slightly busy feeling to all the nooks and crannies.
Elaborate electronics in the display panels are proof of the expectations that the new generation of off-roaders will try their hands at taming the bush in this wagon. More onboard cameras than a CIA satellite in low orbit! .
I always loved the design and shape of the LR steering wheel and this one’s no different.
Lovely.
Behind the steering wheel though, the two stalks for indicators/wipers and lights feels utterly flimsy, almost as if they completely forgot about it and grabbed a set from a Bantam or something on the way out the door!
The gearshift, another sentimental iconic reminiscence is gone, probably for ever. (No red and yellow supplementary sticks either to help you get through the sticky bits in a 2,25l engine of years gone by!)
With that gearshift gone, so are the careful planning of which gears to choose to summit or push, fly through it or dig out!
Clever electronics takes care of that now.
The rear compartment is small. It will take a lot of careful planning and packing to get enough in for any kind of over landing trip.
177Kw in 2020 from a 2.0l twin turbo diesel vs. the first car I ever drove as a 7-year old, my dad’s 57Kw Series IIA; there is a difference!
It goes like the clappers! Carlike... só is the ride. Smooth and precise with excellent stopping capacity from the brakes. Also better than the Series IIA’s!
On a really shitty short corrugated dirt road it performed amicably well even with the 19-inch rubber fitted. Almost composed.
Will I buy it?
As an off-roader for the way I travel off-road, no.
As a daily drive around town and some gravel roads, no.
With a N$1,3million+ price tag, this car does not fit into any of my personal references for an overlanding vehicle.
It is a small car for all intends and purposes in this off-roader/overlander market.
My stuff will not fit inside.
The engine is also small and the chassis in my opinion is not suited for my drive style.
With a 2l engine and a monocoque construction instead of higher capacity engine and a ladder/body-on-frame setup, I cannot see this car doing 300k kms over a lifespan of 10-odd years.
Did I mention my drivestyle, so to speak? Or rather the places/situations I sometimes end up in. The car inevitably needs to work hard from time to time.
So, in my opinion, LR should have renamed it. It does not in anyway exude the indestructible feeling I got in my Defender of years ago let alone a Cruiser óf any type!
It is a sexy stylish expensive new car that will stand out because it is beautiful.
It will kak to keep up(it won’t) with the old Defender and obviously any form of Land Cruiser when the going gets tough during an overlanding trip!
My 2c
The problem with saying anything negative in a review is that one negative comment can overshadow 10 good points because of way our human nature works. I think most people understand these are these events are a carefully choreographed grand opening as such and it is completely understandable
I hate Facebook too...don't use it. Excellent content here Andrew. Thank you.
Few hours ago I watched one of the Namibia reviews. I actually thought the presentation was going very well and was wondering why Andrew is so chirpy on the new Defender. Then the fun started.
There's a computer program system for downhill, a system for this and that. So much reliance on systems. Then the icing on the cake came.
Having Defender program bugs in the middle of nowhere offroad???...Not an issue as LR will have online computer system assistance...truly amazing lol.
Andrew puts it across brutally open and frank. A breath of fresh air.
LR, give him a test unit for 6 months overland expedition. I'd be interested to read/hear/watch how the new Defender will cope in the hands of an experienced overlander.
Andrew, if you do get invited to do a long term test, could you please test one in standard specifications from factory and without any of your modifications?
Overland Journal has a great report on the Defender.
“This vehicle is the epitome of reliability! I knew I could trust it to not break down over the course of 200 miles that I drove it; over the four days that I drove it; while technicians serviced it at night while I drank to my gullet’s delight. Two years and 60,000 miles of use will have no dissimilar results. Trust me on this; I know for a fact that Land Rover claimed this to be their most reliable defender ever, so it must be.”
Several of the reports said that the journalists were impressed that the cars were nor serviced at night. They weren’t touched for the whole duration of the overland trip other than the add fuel etc. I actually think it’s quite brave to launch a new vehicle by letting journalists loose in Namibia where a lot could go wrong. I’m not aware of Jeep or Mercedes being brave enough to do that.
Dave B I shall buy three then!
@@brownfamily67 - further to Dave B; remember, there were EIGHT trips, not one, for about 3300 km of total driving for each truck in the fleet, because there were 8 groups of journos to be accommodated. And agree it was pretty confident of LR, especially as the majority of the journos would not have much off-road experience; hence more than usual flats due to driver errors.
So new defender is fantastic in Namibia in very hot weather and flash floods......thanks ....you made my mind up .. i m getting it ...
I’m one of those ‘gullible’ consumers who have previously purchased a brand new LR Freelander and we are now with our third new RR Evoque - I enjoy off-roading occasionally in the UK but quite often, and necessarily, in Skiathos Greece, where we have our second home and drive our stock 2004 Jimny 70% off-road out of necessity and it serves our needs very well.
I don’t pull on a green boiler suit and baseball cap to join the mud plugging weekend recking brigade, with their chopped up, aftermarket laden, barely recognisable 4x4 shells that were originally made by the corporate money makers derided in this video. Nor do I have any experience, although I do have a keen interest, in serious overlanding which is why I enjoy this channel.
That arguably makes me one of the 95-99% of potential consumers of the #newDefender , that will help JLR make a profit. That may be an offensive word to the ignorant, who clearly do not understand the commercial reality of bringing an all new automotive product to a worldwide market - that must meet the on road / off road needs of the masses - not the minuscule minority, who might want to majorly modify a mass produced, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Jeep, JLR et. al. to meet the needs of a ‘serious’ overlander.
If the masses were not served, then minority overlander’s wouldn’t have any base vehicles to work with, so why would any manufacturer choose to beat a path to the door of one who would complain, amongst other irrelevant to the majority complaints, e.g. that the production vehicle doesn’t have a 17 inch wheel option with wide side walls so you can deflate them for over’sand’landing or why it doesn’t come in a manual or body on shell with removable doors, why standard air suspension on the 110, when I want coil springs, but not on a 90, I can’t easily modify the monocoque shell, change panels for my over-landing needs etc etc.
I have seen most, if not all the Namibia videos thus far and even complained to one freelance journalist who I believed did not do the new defender justice - to learn that he was writing for an adventure niche and not engaged with those channels that predominantly ‘sell’ vehicles. Lightbulb moment for the self indulgent little picture people... The modern world of PR and social media marketing is littered with sub and micro niches these days, giving the corporate machine many options, allowing them to ‘leave’ largely irrelevant sub, sub micro niches. So, as a major automotive manufacturer, who needs a media outlet who’s journalism is all about modified stock production built vehicles after they have been sold?
The point here is that there are many reasons why I might buy a new Defender, and I probably will. That will make me one of the hundreds of thousands of ‘gullible’ folk around the world that will pay hard earned money to the corporate money makers, so that we can do the school run, shopping run, daily commute and maybe the occasional off-road parking up of a caravan or just sitting on a grassy verge. But many of those gullible types will also appreciate the 70 plus years of off-road heritage in the Defender brand, so they can feel confident of getting around town when faced with a flash flood or some snow on the ground.
Those people who remember the humanitarian work Defender has done all around the world over the decades - for the UN, Red Cross and others might be positively influenced by the fluffy side of their investment. Some may even be reassured about recent history JLR reliability improvements and have more than faith in the strongest ever made by JLR.
I thoroughly enjoy this channel and you are clearly highly experienced in a very niche area of long range overlanding. I love that you have found your ideal Toyota based vehicle and now putting a keep it simple habitation cab on it and concerned about weight distribution forward of the rear axle for your second spare wheel to overcome poor handling with just sticking it on the back etc.
I also look forward to your views on the new Defender, if and when you get to fly somewhere to see one owned by someone ‘gullible’ enough to buy one, but they will do little to further persuade or detract any of the hundreds of thousands of ‘gullibles’ out there like me because your world is so far removed from ours.
In the meantime, please don’t patronise those organisations who need to make a profit bringing them to market or the majority of those ‘gullibles’ of any automotive brand who’s hard earned money give people like you the base vehicles, without which you could not get around town, never mind on any extended overland around the world. 👍
From seeing a few of your videos Andrew I trust your opinions on overland capability.
My experience of LR series III & Defender is works use in public (gas & water) utilities. The lads broke them regularly.
My wife is a former SSGT of the British army of some 18 years, her squaddies often broke their vehicles too.
We, after seeing a launch vid of this "Chelsea Tractor" concluded the drivers mentioned above would destroy it in hours. Farmers, lumberjacks & wilderness explores will shop elsewhere too no doubt.
Sorry Andrew but when it comes to the Disco 2 transfer case you are wrong.
Both the manual and auto use the same LT230 transfer box (same as the Discovery 1 but without the Centre Diff Lock lever).
The D2 TCS needs to carry more momentum to get over cross axle obstacles compared to D1 with CDL (as shown in your video) but it is equally as capable.
The TCS really shines in slippery conditions like wet grass and mud, it has the edge over D1 in that regard.
I have added a CDL lever to my D2 now and the combination of CDL and TCS is brilliant, LR should have done that from the start!
This is why I listen to you. Risky and objective reviews. Love it.
I’ve watched most of the videos from this press launch and what stands out most is they are journalists not off road drivers, so with little to no experience off road they are easier to impress because they’ve not been dangling at a weird angle whilst driving on a rocky road before
Spare me the fans. It's an illness.
I speak from experience. Back in my youth my first 4 cars were Alfas, starting with a 69 model. I loved them to bits (and still have a soft spot for them) but now I realise that the reason I loved them is that I was so intimate with them.
I learnt all my mechanicing from them, I knew every bit of them. I could diagnose the slightest symptom instantly. Their charm was that I rarely had to spend any real money, it was mostly labour.
Modern cars are not like that. Anything that goes wrong is going to cost real money to fix and Landrovers always need a lot of fixing.
Hope you get your hands on one soon, can’t wait to hear your take on it.
Andrew. I have never agreed with any content I have seen more. fantastic insight into the presses review of a new vehicle, but also people blindly loving manufacturers because their best mates cousin had one and it went for a million miles.
keep em' coming mate
You made some excellent points young man and none of them should be lost when reading or watching vehicle reviews.
Love the sincere honesty from you Andrew as always, its one of the reasons I subscribed to your channel years ago !
We need a review from you Andrew !
It's nice video.
I am the first new defender owner in Korea.
I am making off-road and camping videos. I think defender is a great car!
Influencers are the ills of our time. Respect to you for your honesty and AUTHENTICITY Andrew.
Fair enough, Andrew. We actually have a New Zealand car magazine called New Zealand Autocar which is basically, and always has been; a trade magazine but never admits to that fact. Their ‘reviews’ even make lower quality U.S. titles like Guns & Ammo and Shooting Times look honest by comparison. That is a considerable feat.
I like 4x4's , I like your channel - and yes your thoughts about the new Defender - spot on !
The brand only shows you what it wants the public to see.
Looking forward to seeing you drive one - hopefully you'll get a chance somehow.
And we'll see a truly unbiased review 👍
Keep up the good work.
Time will tell how good and how capable this new Defender is, l love the old Land Rovers, had several including two series 1 Range Rovers, it seems quite a few people don't like the new Defenders independent suspension! l drove not long ago over some extremely tough terrain a Steyr Puch Pinzgauer and it was incredible and guess what, independent suspension ALL ROUND.
Hi Andrew. I’m a Australian 4wd magazine journalist and I’d say most of what you said is true but I for one never hold back on what I experienced - good, bad or ugly. Steve 🇦🇺
Which the response every journalist would give. “Why yes thats true, but I’m the exception!”. I’m just kiddin. I believe you.
The auto Disco 2s did not have a viscous coupling transfer case. I suspect that the drivers had locked the center diff. You could do it with a wrench at that time as the locking mechanism was there. They had just removed the lever and linkage.
One comment avoided was the fact that independent suspension will drastically reduce ground clearance when its heavily loaded and going over rough bumps especially the front end going downhill . When its standing still it has a better clearance than the center of the Defender differentials that’s true .The reviews I saw said Landrover had addressed the reliability problems by building in some limp modes but did not elaborate on that . When you are in that type of rough country the first thing you want to know is exactly what the failure modes will be
Mike Who - no thats not correct re. ground clearance. The reason is air suspension; LR air springs always adapt to the load by increasing volume as load is taken on. Ground clearance stays the same, whether loaded or unloaded, including any tow load. That is part of why the Defender can have such high payload, that many reviewers commented on.
@@cmacd8879 True in a static condition - but when going down a slope then hitting a big rock or bump ( inertia ) , the wheels will travel upward and the sump or lower part of the chassis will move down towards the surface reducing the clearance - if this were not true you would simply not have suspension travel . With solid axles the distance between the lower end of the diff is always the same under any conditions but the overall vehicle clearance is reduced slightly ( which can be changed by using bigger dia tyres ) - a much better option . We have yet to see a fully loaded new defender going down Van Zyl's pass in Namibia - in actual fact we yet to see any fully loaded new defender do any rough track work !
Reviewed the landrover without reviewing the landrover. Only Andrew can do that 👍👍👍.
Andy, check out the TFL guys channel out of Denver, CO. They bought a new defender and it lasted all of 160 miles and 24h before the check engine light came on. It’s been in the shop for the last 2 weeks.
Was going to buy the new 2020 defender, based on the myriad of positive UK based reviews. Will wait til Andrew gets his hands on one and offers an unbiased review. Keep us posted Andrew.
The range based off disco 5 (nye on same drivetrain) does 600 miles to a tank, and the vehicle is 2.2 tons and has a max gtw of 6.7 tons. The 3.0 is invincible minus the Californian spec emissions crap.
The tyres are higher profile than a prado’s tyres
We all remember the first car we owned or learned to drive in. There is always a nostalgic tug on the heart strings for most people. This summer will mark the 40th anniversary that my father first handed me the keys to his Defender to learn to drive. I still remember those first moments driving across the muddy tracks of a large agricultural site. The conditions were pretty brutal in places with large rocks and deep water logged ruts scattered in our path. The days turned to weeks of endless hours of driving experience, cutting off road cloth! So here I stand looking with a deep rooted fondness of defenders at this new kid on the block. My initial thoughts are simple, the pedigree of defenders was and let's face it.....rough and tumble that would put a smile on your face no matter how loud the scrape, thud, splash or bang. I suspect however with these new models this will only result in lots of face pulling ouches and tentative off roading...... especially at a 50k+ cost point.
This video is just pure gold!
Agree totally with the comments about the D2 manuals, have had a couple of occasions when a failed ABS sensor left me with one wheel drive on icy roads.
Andrew St Pierre White: I'm a proud supporter of your channel and of your content on Patreon. I love your videos and I love how honest and critical you are when you review vehicles. I love how you think on a lot of levels and I envy your career and lifestyle.
However. As a Discovery 2 owner for 7 years now I suspect you are being a bit too harsh and unfair with your review of the Discovery 2 models. No one with argue about the rugged offroad capabilities of the predecessor Discovery 1 from 1989-1998. But Discovery 2 was a big leap forward with technology and improvements. Wider. Longer. More power. Off road assist features like rear self leveling suspension, active corning enhancement system, traction condition, hill decent control and the carryover of the center differential locker.
My understanding of Discovery 2 is that there were several trim levels and optional additions. 1999-2000 did come with optional CDL. But as many of us know Land Rover disabled the CDL function from 2000-2003. Rumor has it that Land Rover reluctantly put the CDL back in for the final model year of 2004, due to customer demand and complaints. Most D2 fans will tell you that the best yesr Discovery 2 is the 2004 model year. Mostly because most all 04 models have the CDL. Plus thicker roof rails, improved oil pump front cover, extra interior colors etc.
The model Discovery you were given to test drive and review was a manual without the CDL. Your review on the particular truck was fair. But you cannot judge the entire model from 1999-2004 as being poor offroad vehicle. Why? Because most Discovery 2 models have a automatic transmission. And because early D2's like the 2004 D2 have the critical CDL.
Furthermore you are very harsh on the traction control system offered on Discovery 2. Correct me if I'm wrong but in 1999 how many other 4x4's offered traction control? Let alone hill decent control and ace? My point? The traction control on Discovery 2 was very primitive and also paved the way for most other 4x4's who thereafter fitted their own version of traction control.
My experience with the traction control on my 2004 Discovery 2 was very different from yours. I was patient and took my time learning how the system works. When the system detects wheel slip it engages traction control. However you need to maintain steady consistent pressure on the gas pedal in order for the traction control to work its magic. Also if while you are stuck, and if you apply too much pressure to the gas pedal then the wheels will continue to slip and loose traction and start digging down into the ground. You need to apply just the right amount of pressure and wait the extra split seconds for the traction control to get the wheels moving again. Ive used this system while driving on a uphill riverbed littered with basketball sized builders and sharp rocks and fallen tree stumps. Slow steady pressure gets the truck moving.
"As slow as possible, as fast as necessary"
I have just read the Car Magazine review of the new Defender. They include several mentions that LR engineering boss Nick Rogers is riding along. They also give the car a pretty glowing review.
If I could I would buy the new 2020 Defender just to be able to invite and meet you Andrew...
Big fan... 👍🏻
I am with you on Facebook spend very little time there unlike all the younger generation and dont post or comment much, I find commenting starts a war people wont listen when you give good advice!
This is 100% accurate, not just with car launches, but with mobile phone launches (particularly Apple), camera launches etc...
Your comments on reviews not bagging out the off roading ability inspired me to try and find one for my first 4x4 (a mighty mazda bravo). He gets points for admitting that it rides like a commercial vehicle (front is too soft, rear is way too hard without a decent load) and mentioning multiple times it's built to a price. Still says you won't be embarrassed offroad by it* and it's got all traction (well that just depends on your tires), torque (okay if you can stand keeping the revs high enough) and ground clearance (I mean nothing hangs lower than it should but stock it has 29" tires and it's hard to go bigger than 32").
*It's not terrible but it seems to do well mostly cos I drive it like I don't care about body damage (tray back and rocksliders have that effect) and cos it's not lifted to sky the centre of gravity is low enough to get away with some stuff I really shouldn't have tried.
Good video Andrew, the net is full of the Namibia launch. Even the next video after yours already has 500k views. They may not want you to have one but CZcams knows to pop them up around you're videos. its all for show, Same media clips , same sweeping shots of Africa. But Car jornos are the Croc shoes of the motoring world. Most are media robots. Just be thankful you are not lumped in the same boat. keep on the honest side of the ledger. :)
i loved my defender 90 when i lived in the uk .then 2yrs ago i moved to oz .
i now loved the 79 its better in every way
my right arm loves the room in a 79
Journalists are paid by magazines and other media companies. Those make money by advertising from the car companies. It's one big circle. Good or nice reviews will be rewarded, negative and honest reviews will not.
I love the cliffhanger thought just as you cut to your intro. That was perfect mate, every single person watching at that point would hang around to see what that Facebook comment was that struck home. The master at work here, thanks for teaching me this technique, and demonstrating it so well.👍
Andrew, i LOVEEEEEEEEEEEE your honesty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for all your vids.
I’m amazed how few reviews have seriously discussed the 13 (?) computers. My question would be ‘2wks into the Australian Outback (or Far North) & a computer (s) fails, or the air suspension punctures, can i still drive it? Can i Bush Mechanic my way out of trouble?’
Mate your point is well made but try getting problems with a 200 Series complex suspension or motor sorted at Cape York or out west. Same with the motor in the 79. Slide tray back to a capital city? They are all high tech now. I agree you have a better chance with a Toyo due to the dealership numbers but if there isn't much difference drive the vehicle you want and enjoy it. Cheers
For me you are the most trusted name in off road touring. Thank you. Stay safe stay healthy.
I absolutely agree with you on the whole press launch business; of course they are not interested in getting a negative experience out of anyone on what is basically their chance to make the new Defender look offroady. However, the Discovery 2... the automatic does NOT have a viscous coupling center locker. (Source: I own an auto TD5 D2). Yes, removing the CDL was a mistake, yes the traction control is a bit rubbish, yes it's likely outperformed by a D1 due to the CDL. And yes, I'm planning on retrofitting the CDL linkage on my D2 (the early models have the same transfer case as the D1, WITH locker, only no linkage to engage it). What I'm trying to say is: the automatic is much better suited for the lackluster traction control due to how power is delivered, gear ratios, pedal response and so on, perhaps even giving the impression of a viscous coupling because it really does all work together quite beautifully, in it's own flawed way. I leave you with this thought: if your FIRST experience with the Discovery 2 would have been the press event with the automatic, on a specifically selected, suitably difficult course, wined, dined and pampered by the crew, having a positive first experience, would your views on the Disco 2 be quite as negative as they are? I think Land Rover makes a mistake in only inviting their fans among the motoring journalists to an event like the 2020 Defender launch, they should specifically invite the Andrews of the world and let them have their say.
Actually what impressed me about the UK guys reviewing the new LR after seeing Andrew’s theoretical review , was the specs in action. Approach, break over , departure angles. Being used in Van Zyls pass. I watched closely at the vehicles wheel travel, and technical aspects in the footage.
It’s good, and the electronics from an ex landrover technician perspective is that it LOOKS like much better stuff. And based on what I have used of disco 5s they tow like mules, pull like freight trains and off road like a goat, just don’t, DO NOT option the ford 2.0 petrol unit
Well done Andrew, you started a flaming hot journalist war. Lets watch if it escalates like the Mitsu case ... 🤔
Dude I have ordered one.... When it arrives in Sydney send me a personal message and I will let you review mine. The target date is July
You sound cruel but you are true about Land Rover. Now I will check out the video on the new car to prove you right. I am sure it won't out do the landcruiser. I enjoyed your brilliant discussion
Man, I checked out the video and behold it was an explicably covered grandiose review of the landrover. And the body modifications was too similar to your 4x4 mods. They stole your parent bro
Love to see your review of one! I'm seriously considering one and have no issues with the capability being good enough for me. But reliability and liveability are more worrying.
I respect your unbiased reviews and informative videos. However, I must ask, you mentioned the Discovery 2 Auto you drove has a centre viscous coupling? To my knowledge the Disco 2 only ever had the LT230 transfer box fitted, were South African models offered with the Borg Warner viscous unit from the P38? Unless I stand corrected I would put money on the difflocks being manually engaged on the transfer box and the warning light (which was even still present!) disconnected. That would give the appearence of better capability through traction control alone yet the added benefit of difflock working too.