A Video Detailing War Crimes in Undertale (that really shouldn't have been made)
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- čas přidán 23. 11. 2023
- an alternative (and debatably better) title to this video would be "pure youtube algorithm bait that i shoulda discarded but instead spent way too much time and effort on, frankly"
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Music Used:
Like literally just the Undertale soundtrack, I'm not even sure anything else was used - Hry
It was so sad that papyrus had to be arrested in 2019 because of “unethical and unnecessary pain” using barbed wire as a home defense plan 😢
I saw that on live television, when he was finally cornered and said "it looks like i boned my last trousle" I shed a tear for what could've been
@@DaveyGunface hi
I guess he "knuckled up"! eh? eh?
Jail
Fr, my Grandma couldn't sleep, she was so stressed.
"killing a kid isn't a warcrime if the child is a child soldier" said in a monotone voice just cracked me up
That... that implies Raiden in Revengeance committed little to no war crimes even if he fought gorilla mechas with the brain of children inside
What the hell
Like as if that isn’t a horrible thing lol
I mean, a child soldier is still a soldier, they're going to kill others, so it's self defense. That said, having child soldiers in general should be a war crime.
@@KyrieFortune Yeah, Raiden was legally in the clear. If it's a war crime to kill child soldiers, then it would just make the less ethical among us use child soldiers as meat shields on purpose so the enemy would hesitate even FURHTER to kill them.
On the other hand, if anybody in the Winds of Destruction had survived the game, they were going to the Hauge. Especially Sundowner and whoever else was in charge of trafficking and operating on the kids.
@wadespencer3623 I don't even think they'd need a trial, just "yeah, buddy, you're getting the fucking chair
Number 48: flowey will reload the save if you try to throw yourself into his bullets at the end. inhumane hostage taking
I totally forgot about that, love that dialogue
If you do it enough, you can piss him off.
@@minasthirith6314really? Is there a video showing it?
@@seandorama5932 I don't know, but it is mentioned in the wiki.
"Uh... Uh... Could you STOP doing that?! Anyways..!"
One small detail you got wrong:
Alphys didn't tell them famlies they'd get the dust back. She told them their dead family members were alive, and they'd see them tomorrow. Which is worse.
On the flip side, the goal wasn’t the resurrection of the dead, that was an unforeseen consequence
well technically she said both so, not wrong
She said both, which is slightly less bad because she genuinely thought they would be fine at the time and was super happy with how it went
@@NicholastheMalicious
The TLDR is that she’s not in hot water for human experimentation as much as she is for medical malpractice. The soul thing is kinda fucky, but given circumstances, it’s kinda hard to argue a method of breaking free that ISN’T fucky
@@spindash64 True, there's not much Alphys could do from the second the monsters started melting together, it's quite a predicament and Alphys should totally be detained for how she handled it, lying to the family members and all
"Do not use the consumed souls of dead children to become god, what the fuck?" Is a line that should be added to the Geneva Conventions
You raise a good point though. Should becoming God be considered a war crime?
@@Thomas_The_Thermonuclear_Bombbro answered himself
@@Cookiekopter it was a continuation of my thoughts on the vid, he said it could potentially fall under sacrilege
I raise a good point. Should
@@Thomas_The_Thermonuclear_Bomb i think yes.
In defense of Napstablook his attacks are literally his tears, so it could be argued that he wasm't intending to harm you and didn't realise that his tears could kill you, since he presumably hasn't killed anyone else by crying on them
Also the annoying dog is... God? Sorta? I mean he seems like he has godly powers and just does things for fun.
in the mad dummy fight, mad dummy thought napstablooks tears are acid rain when napstablook saves you
so theyre atleast acidic
@@af4tal3rr0r4I think mad dummy assumed it was acid rain because I don’t think napstablook can cry acid rain, just tears made of magic
If there wasn't the game mechanics involved, Napstablook would probably not kill you since he can't die in the first place.
"don't carpet bomb children" is a pretty useful tip
shame the touhou fandom seems to constantly forget it
topical
Are they children if they lived for hundreds of years and can respawn at will when killed?
@@sponge1234ify in touhou, this can only realistically apply to sumireko
@@ConsarnitTokkori I meant moreso the fairies, not the "top dog" goddesses
@@sponge1234ify the only god you could maybe argue is still a bit too raw to be fighting is shizuha tbh
I always liked the implication that Asriel's over-the-top title and the "cool" names for his attacks are because he's just like a kid playing make-believe on the playground. Except that he can make all of those things reality and can and will hurt you with them.
Something worth noting on top of that is that somehow, the narrator KNOWS these attack names. And not only that, the narrator is way more excited by this fight than they seemingly should be. They don’t call Asriel “The God of Hyperdeath” with a period. It’s “The Absolute God of Hyperdeath!” With an Exclamation point
Narrator is every bit as much of a dork
@@spindash64 That could be explained by the narrator being Chara/The First Fallen, since they knew Asriel while he was alive and they probably played make-believe with those exact attack names
This has no bearing on whether or not shooting lasers, lightning, fucking stars, and what is essentially a miniature black hole are considered War Crimes, it's just a neat little story-telling choice
@@spindash64i love narrators who are fucking dorks in reality and this really makes me confused how people can make chara out as this evil person
@@quaelgeist3337 it's because they make you accountable for your sins.
this also ties into the fact that theres a bit of a running joke that all the dreemurrs are terrible at naming things. hence asriel's over-the-top attack names and the fact that he named himself "flowey" when he turned into a flower, called his seed bullets fucking "friendliness pellets" as if that was even at all effectively deceiving, etc. this joke is also why asriel is named asriel at all. its literally a combination between asgore and toriel. the whole family is just awful at names
Asgore conscripting you into an ENEMY team is 100% the weirdest Warcrime I can recall. But it 100% counts. His speech of saying he'd kill ANY human that falls down is basically just declaring genome elimination of a given group of people.
That’s technically racism
Ashore also declared no mercy which is definitely a war crime.
Asgore sorry
@@giantbat4290 No actually, he destroyed the mercy button because he believes he doesn’t deserve mercy. He was being *very* merciful during the battle because he doesn’t want to kill another human
@@polarbearfan
I think it’s also implied that Asgore looks at Frisk and doesn’t just see “the last human before humanity dies”. He looks at them and sees CHARA standing before him. Not in a literal sense, but in the sense that he can’t look at Frisk without thinking of Chara, and trying to kill them makes him feel like he’s letting Chara die _all over again_
I'm at home from work because I've changed medications and the side effects are beating my ass worse than my figurative uncle, should he ever come to exist. I've not slept for 40-odd hours and i am fairly certain i am hallucinating. I am 100% certain that i am the target audience for this.
Yes, yes you are
The target audience, that is
Changing meds and side effects are killing me as well. Videos like this make it more bearable.
The only target is you, the worms are after you the worms are after you they are in the walls they are in the walls they are in the walls
@@haka-katyt7439you’re not funny.
In case of Gyftrot, there is a case to be made that he's not fully responsible for his actions. He's in a situation of clear physical and psychological distress and possibly physical pain from the "decorating" that's been done to him, and even the presents he gives you are arguably just him trying to get rid of his decorations. He might not be fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Based bisexual pfp
nice pfp
WHO THE FUCK IS GYFTROT!!!
@@1th_to_comment. bro these comments are so wholesome. Glad to see this fanbase is nice.
Pride profile picture, simple yet efficient
To be fair, Toriel's fire may not work like normal fire. When Flowey is hit by a fireball, he's just knocked away without burning.
But Toriel does use her magic to cook food, doesn't she? So it at least _can_ work like normal fire...
@@dusaprukiyathan1613 Yeah, but if she's not making it burn against Flowey she's probably not making it burn against you
* The fire isn't burning hot. . .
* Just pleasantly warm.
* You could put your hand inside.
@@The_One_In_Black”I don’t know if you know this but fire is fire and fire burns”
@@zenochara7522 magic fire
I'm surprised you didn't mention the whole "humanity trapping the monsters into the underground" thing. It is basically the entire reason any of the warcrimes involving the human children who got into the underground (including the determination experiments) were a thing in the first place and I definitely feel like "trapping the enemy faction in a place with little means to escape" is essentially a concentration camp.
Well in the underground the monsters have enough room to make a whole city and have business and commerce
It's inhuman, but not as bad as that
@@No.1RatedSalesmanPretty sure the underground being a serviceable space was an unhappy accident and in no way intended by the humans.
When you realize the most likely intention was to have them all starve to death in an empty cave with no food and no water, yeah that's a warcrime alright.
@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 not saying they planned it but still, not as bad as it coulda been, they obviously didn't pick somewhere purposefully bad given how long monster society has been going on in the underground
@@No.1RatedSalesman Still a warcrime. Your excuse boils down to "He didn't die, so I guess they didn't try to kill him lol"
There's a reason why crimes don't work that way. Intent > outcome.
@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 never said it wasn't a crime
Just that it could have been way worse and comparing it to a concentration campp is way too extreme considering the circumstances
"Do not use the consumed souls of dead children to become god, what the fuck?" is an absolutely fantastic line that made me hold in a strong laugh. It implies that yeah, you totally can do it, like that's something souls of dead children are known to be able to do once eaten, but like, don't? Because of those rules and laws being real-life human concepts it makes it feel like something that could be realized in real life and would be considered a horrible crime in real life, even despite the fact the law system probably couldn't hurt a newly made god in the slightest.
I don't know man, it's just really funny, what a video.
“ do not use the consumed souls of children to become a god what the fuck?” is a fantastic quote.
52:57 This is actually a different and even worse war crime. If you notice, flowey's attack uses the exact same design of the fat man, which is a WMD. Dropping nukes are a big no-no.
Unless you are America, apparently. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens.
@@flynnhunter416 Nuclear devices are allowed to be tested under circumstances that brings no harm to any outside party. Flowey meanwhile is dropping a WMD on a literal child, a child who up to that point possibly didn't harm anyone.
@@truewhissanI mean, if those are nukes they're very short range nukes.
Then again, Flowey's idea of "nukes" would come either from Chara or whatever media survived being washed into the Underground.
I want to believe that in the Undertale world, the Geneva convention had to be updated after the barrier was broken. No time powers, karmic retribution, or soul taking allowed in combat.
How would they know if there's time powers involved
@@raileynashpallada9559 Good question.
@@raileynashpallada9559
Severe Collective Deja Vu (they feel like they’ve been in this place before)
@@genericname2747I was gonna say something but I forgot
@@zenochara7522 Sans Undertale...
The constant "what the fuck" and "fuck you flowey" during the flowey fight is exactly how i felt about it too. I was a little horrified but more confused and frustrated than anything else
Snow attacks being pardoned makes sense, the attacks are basically just throwing snowballs at you
But then why does Napstablook not be pardoned for crying on you
Because Napstablook doesn't live in an environment full of heavy torrential downpours and acidic tears
@@DaveyGunface actually this is partially incorrect, they live in a place with a lot of rain (waterFALL)
True, sorry better way to put it is "You don't MEET Napstablook in an environment...*"
@@DaveyGunface But what if he didn't knew the tears were like that?
"For example one of the most common uses of [Incendiary Weaponry] is to clear out foliage"
**looks at Flowey w/ a flamethrower**
The folliage strike back
@@No.1RatedSalesman... no the implication is that he's going to get roasted.
@@StarshadowMelody But he was saying that Omega Flowey is the one with the flamethrower here, meaning that instead of being used by a human to clear out foliage, the flamethrower is being used by a foliage to clear out a human.
Kind of expected Neutral’s part to be the longest because of Flowey and Asgore, but the true lab and asriel causing more problems makes a lot of sense now
The omega Flowey section was freaking masterful. Funny, and perfect way to approach it-
Made me laugh so hard
It is a masterpiece
this whole video is a treat, jokes out the wazoo and a honest reaction to the nonsense that is this game.
@@notinorder9630best nonsense I've ever seen, it's a masterpiece
It’s so fucking funny. I can feel his utter confusion and fear
As an avid Undertale fan, this makes me kinda want to figure out most of the OSHA violations in what we see in the Underground. While how it was made isn't exactly clear in game, there's still stuff where I go "that's GOTTA be illegal."
Also iirc Napstablook uses they/them and is non-binary. Not really related just kinda important
That fountain just spewing water all over the place in the Hotel is definitely not safe
There’s an entire hidden subplot (as in, you need to crack open the games files/get lucky with random events to even learn of it) about a scientist falling into his creation that basically killed him so hard nobody remembers he exists.
And said creation is implied to be a massive power plant open to civilian access, with death traps within.
@@fluorideinthechat7606 No, the creation in question is implied to be some kind of multiverse-observation machine, most likely the one in Sans's secret workshop. Not the fairly mundane geothermal power plant.
Just the entirely of hotland and the core
I do think it's entirely possible that monsters from the ruins could have let other monsters know about the genocidal child killing all of them. We know phones and at least some form of social media exist in the underground, and we've seen how quickly news can spread through social media. Even if phone and social media use isn't as widespread as it is in real life, it's still likely at least one of the ruins monsters would be able to get the word out about it, so I'd say it's likely pretty justified for the monsters to attack on sight, in a Genocide playthrough at least
Nobody ever leaves the ruins tho. They wouldn't have phones that can use social media. Alphys mentions the phone Toriel gives us is ancient and lacks a lot of features.
So they probably wouldn't be able to tell anyone unless the spiders delivered a letter or something like in Muffets fight
@@combi0078 we do know, based on the various equipment scattered through the ruins, that at least one human made it past the ruins.
@@combi0078 the very fact that we are able to use the phone at all in the ruins means that there pretty much has to be some way to communicate with outside the ruins, since I highly doubt the monsters inside the ruins have their own cell network set up completely isolated from the outside. Just because nobody leaves the ruins doesn't mean they don't communicate outside the ruins
Incorrect. Even if you kill everything in the Ruins on Genocide, the town of Snowdin isn’t evacuated until you exhaust the kill counter of Snowdin itself. That implies that they aren’t aware of your previous killings in the Ruins, as that area is quite isolated from the rest of the underground, although communication is certainly still feasible. But it’s clear that such communication is rare.
@@georgerockwell149 Sure, but you can't say it's impossible that the monsters before Snowdin are aware of your murder spree but the Snowdin dwellers aren't, or just don't think it's dangerous enough until you murder everyone around their town. All I'm saying is that it's quite possible, maybe even likely, that at least some of the monsters outside the ruins are aware of you
i think the biggest counterpoint i could make against a lot of this is regarding bioweaponry or objects that wouldn’t be harmful otherwise (like the water and the snow or weather warfare) - that being, the geneva conventions don’t account for magic. the same also applies to toriel’s fire, which does no additional damage beyond the contact, and the relevant soul damage can be healed with a good meal - something that wouldn’t be possible with a physical wound. fire weapon war crimes are so because they elongate suffering, but toriel’s fire does no such thing. it’s much more like a hard punch or a gunshot wound than a flamethrower.
put simply, they’re just not physical weapons, undyne’s spears and the like aside they mostly only exist within the bullet box, and have little effect otherwise. or at the very least, they don’t do any permanent harm on account of weird magical bullshit.
This could also imply that all attacks are bioweapons because monsters naturally make and produce
Actually, as a counterpoint to your counterpoint, the dialogue for Toriel's stovetop implies that she uses fire magic to cook, which implies that her fire magic has properties analogous to actual fire (fire-like heat, at the very least), and thus would cause burns on anyone harmed by it.
@@velvetphiI think she's just sble to control her fire magic to not deal burn damage due to the fireplace being warm not hot
@@raileynashpallada9559Ah! That's true, I forgot about that. I'd say it's merely inconclusive, then, since we don't know how hot the fire she uses to attack you is. It's capable of killing you at the very least (she even has a special sprite for when she does), but it could be possible that she's using non-burning fire.
@@velvetphi you’re correct, and i will amend my stance. i guess its similar to LOVE and EXP in a way, the damage you deal and the damage you take are intent-based, the more you want to harm whoever you’re attacking the more it will do. and then as for why it does so much damage against people who don’t want to, you’re a kid with a probablyfragile mental state, it’s going to do more damage if you’re expecting it to hurt more. and then a hp increase is an increase in your capacity for others to hurt you before you can feel it.
and then also of course the ability to control exactly how much effort is put into an attack is also across monsters, they can also actively choose to not hurt you, because by the same token if they don’t want to kill you they just have to not.
some are scared for their life, and will stop attacking when you fulfil their spare condition. some are just doing their job, however bad that may be for us. but everyone is bound by the Turns system.
Not sure if it's a Geneva war crime, but one can presume Asgore is acting as if he's "at war" with humans currently (which is also another genocide ticker) for a resource they have (souls), I'm pretty sure it's frowned upon to perform acts of war without official declaration to those you are warring with
Not like there's any way to actually inform them of that. Technically, all of the monsters are being kept prisoners under a mountain, with no exit and locked in a way that they can't leave on their own, and the humans forgot they even existed (probably), so it's not like he could have actually followed that law
Also there was no treaty or armistice
Actually I think this is more like a Korea situation where the original war never officially ended, all that happened was humanity trapping the monsters underground. There was no official treaty or whatnot pronouncing the war to be over, so it could be said that Asgore is justified in that manor as he is still at war with humanity.
@@TheVoidIsColdand he does declare war. He just can’t, y’know, inform the humans, as you said.
He's not at war because he wants souls
He declared war because the humans murdered both of his children (yes I know chara was dead sorta, but they say that her and asriel shared the body and thought independently so whatever)
They were fine underground until the overpopulation started and his family was all gone
I have basically no idea on the story of undertale, nor have played it, but here we go again!
This is the CZcams comment equivalent of scrolling through social media and seeing a video of a train wreck pop up in your feed. I know what is coming, and I apologize for what is about to unfold
Same
woooooaooooooooooooooooooooooooh ooooh
@@thisnameisbad3609story of undertale
🎶woaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh story of undertale🎶
"I'm responsible for several war crimes!" -Flowey, Revtrosity's Saying a Lot Of Things As Flowey.
I, for one, am absolutely shocked that Flowey, the main villain of the game, would commit crimes like this...
Jokes aside, funny video! Hopefully they get you that $70,000 payout soon :P
Hi Shayy big fan of your content just wanted to say for you to have a good day :D
And those are just the ones we see
What about all the stuff he pulled in all those other timelines
Maybe the real reason he stayed underground was because he knew he could be prosecuted(probably not considering no one remembers, said timelines, except him)
Makes me wonder how the hell people think Asrial is some precious soft UwU boy when he's anything but. At least in Undertale. Dude can clearly be a monster if pushed in the right way.
Hell, I'm thinking that all the talk of Asrial being a good guy in deltarune is a hot load of shit. Dude is likely gonna be like Eddy's older brother.
In that case, it'll be sasfying to make that goat eat dirt for hopefully the final time in the series.
Quick question: could you count Omega Floweys first reset as perfidy? Hes definitely trying to lead you into believing hes been defeated, and then when you dont expect it, he does the whole murdering thing right afterwards.
I'm a bit conflicted on it because he specifically pretend to be defeated or dying, but not pretending to be already deceased.
I have a challenge for you Davey. Find a section of the Geneva conventions that cannot, in some way, apply to Flowey. Is there literally anything in there that doesnt call him out, or did Flowey successfully complete his Geneva Suggestion blackout bingo card?
"The Geneva Convention is my bucket list" -Flowey or smth
He didn't use the Red Cross without permission, because he didn't use it at all
@@TheBadDeadFoxfor a split second I thought you were about to explain how Flowey has permission to use the red cross
He didn't, um, do group punishment of Prisoners? Instead he just didn't get the opportunity to. I think.
@@marcuswestphal4955i mean the transition to asriel form
i think every major boss in vines can be considered a group of prisoners
and holding them like that in the air is probably very painful
and getting their souls is not good
so i'd say he did
“In my humble opinion, getting dunked on is a viable war tactic.” -Davey Gunface, 2023
About the Flowey bullets being possible bio-weapons:
Considering that all monsters are made of magic, I'd say that most if not all attacks you deal with in the game could count as bio-weapons since they're literally made from living beings.
Well this goes both ways
All life on earth is carbon based, but if a tree fell on you you wouldn't say a human drop kicked you would you? Or if you threw a banana at someone, is that considered a slap?
The magic used to make magic bullets is non living, making it even more different as it's not even alive anyways
@@No.1RatedSalesman ok genuine question, if you were to cut off a human arm and somehow fashion a gun to be able to shoot it just as any other gun would fire a bullet, would it be a slap or a shot?
@@blu8009 both, but it can be a punch too
@@blu8009
That would be a traumatic memory.
fun fact, originally you would gain EXP by just hurting the monsters, but it was later changed to killing them instead.
Edit: apparently this might have been a rumor? i heard some people saying it's present somewhere in the demo but i tried and couldn't verify it, maybe i did it wrong or maybe it's something scrapped in the demo's code, i would appreciate if anyone who knows the game's code could confirm or deny if it was ever a thing.
*that's a fine line you've been walking
*pretty high LV, but, no kills.
*guess i should say good job
*that can't be easy
*still, you should try just, talking things out for once
*not everyone actually wants to fight
*it's been a while since i have
*but i won't keep you if you're not up for a challenge
*you're probably ready for asgore. ish.
*still
*you seem like you wanna show everyone you're the very best, right?
*like no one ever was.
@@StarshadowMelodyUndertale, gotta hurt em' all!
*ey, your a pretty awful person aren’t ya
*whadya mean you haven’t killed anyone?
*you just beat them senseless and leave?
*… that’s still pretty bad kid
@@capadociaash8003 *anyways, good luck with asgore
source?
I think that in all honesty, saying magic is a bio weapon is like saying punching is a bioweapon.
With Alphys's amalgamations, I'd at least say that the amalgamations were not intentional?
The best description for it would be "Alphys tried to create the monster equivalent of organ donation, but instead accidentally resurrected the dead in the most horrifying way possible."
Don't know how that affects the ethics here, and she definitely didn't handle the situation the best.
Like, maybe she could have done some experiments to find out if "Determination+Monsters=Amalgamations"
But so far at least I'd argue that her understanding before the amalgamations is "Human Souls + Determination = Souls surviving outside of a host body. Therefore Monster Souls + Determination = Souls surviving outside of a host body" and not "Determination+Monsters=Amalgamations"
Nah crimes against existence.
@turtleofpride4572 I mean, I feel like Alphys intentions are at least important in determining the ethics/crimes here. (There's a reason murder and manslaughter are two different crimes.)
Alphys here wasn't like "Muahahaha! I'm going to fuse these monsters together in an experiment because I'm EVIL!"
I feel like the best way to explain what happened is to put it in human terms.
Bascially imagine a world where organ donation/transplants don't exist, and a Scientist attempts to invent organ transplants.
The scientist discovers a substance found in another speices that preserves the organs outside of the body.
Gets donated a few brain-dead bodies and injects the substance into them.
Instead, the bodies come to life, and the scientist briefly dedicates that they found out how to bring people to life.
Then the bodies start to melt and fuse together, and the scientist is horrified.
Not a 1 to 1 analogy, but you get the deal. Like she still messed up with hiding the amalgamation situation out of guilt, and you could argue that she could have possibly taken more precautions to prevent the amalgamations from happening, but this isn't some Josef Mengele torture experiment thing.
Similar to Flowey too. I mean, there's no evidence that she knows that Flowey was Asriel, but she probably thought it was a "Frankenstein situation", and like the amalgamations she thought the "vessel" as a failure and that it wouldn't come to life after some experiments.
and I think the final thing is that after the pacifist ending, all the monsters at least seem fine with the situation? None of the monsters whose relatives became the amalgamations were like "How dare you do this to my family Alphys!"
Instead, they are all like "Wow I'm thankful the great Doctor Alphys saved my wife, even though she's now sharing her body with like 20 other people", and the amalgamation after leaving the true lab at least seems to be doing pretty chill.
Ethics are shaky, but... if im not wrong, this is at the point of 6 SOULs collected.
With no hope of another falling down...
Using allready "basically dead" people is some decent ethics when hope is out of the picture
@@link_team3855 I think the reason Asgore had Alphys try to find an alternative way of breaking the barrier was because "he was already guilt-ridden after killing 6 kids and didn't want to kill a 7th to shatter the barrier."
So technically this was intended to be the "more ethical" option than "killing one more human child"
Plus, the fallen down monsters were sent to Alphys by their families under the (original) understanding this was a "Soul Donation" sort of deal.
The problem is that Alphys didn't know that Determination injected into fallen down Monsters would just bring them back to life/stop them from dying, and then melt their bodies because they didn't have as much physical matter (bc monsters were mostly made up of magic).
Still, telling the families of the test subjects that they're "fine" and will go back to them soon is kind of messed up.
Especially since she cut any sort of contact from the families after the experiments when horribly wrong.
One of the little cutscenes you see during the credits after completing a true pacifist run should have been the monsters on trial in The Hague.
Well, if frisk didn't press assault charges papyrus would probably be fine... everyone else though... yeah...
Especially asgore
Considering an entire route you can take in this game is one big, continuous warcrime, I think you have your work cut out for you on this one.
...ok, one warcrime this simple
Muffet can also be considered for further crimes (no idea exactly which ones), because... spiders. Spiders, and webs. Terrorizing prisoners of war. With Arachnophobia.
Dunno what you’re on about
Muffet do be a smash 😏
Also spiders are helpful little guys
They eat the bad bugs
Like those bitch mosquitoes
To be fair considering she herself is a spider, she can't exactly help causing arachnophobia.
@@polocatfanit would be out of their control
Tbh I'd consider the spider web she traps you in also questionable (unlike Davey's verdict) given that it is not reasonable to expect a spider web to fully immobilise you.
@@MamaTrixxieAsmrmuffet is pretty hot
35:55 okay when “laying down arms” is mentioned in the undyne fight, i want to mention something interesting. if you purposely avoid blocking her attacks and get hit with her spears repeatedly, she’ll mention the “shield” in the in game little boxy thing is actually a spear she gave us to block attacks
so technically as long as we have the option to dodge we have a spear in our hands
but also she gave us the spear in our hands so
The asgore question once again. Is recruiting a child soldier to fight AGAINST you a war crime?
forget trolley problems and whatnot, video games provide us with the wildest moral dilemnas
53:19 I know time travel would be illegal in combat but let's be real.. allies really never cared for that, and YES, Geneva does still exist in Red Alert universe, you even go there in the third game!
The Allies literally have a soldier that works entirely around killing a unit or building previously in time. I'm not sure retroactive un-existing is a war crime, but it feels like one. Now kinda want a C&C warcrimes video.
True
C&C warcrimes video
i gotta say that i really just love your incredibly dry and monotone delivery of the absurd idea of applying real world rules to fictional worlds. these videos are really just one of my daydream ideas but with the actual commitment to do the work lol good job
23:18 Given this attack turns your SOUL blue, among many other pieces of evidence throughout the game; It can be assumed that this setting has magic. Therefore these bones (alongside many other attacks throughout the game) are most likely conjured from spells or other magical practices. This is an important distinction because if true it would mean the bones aren't necessarily from corpses.
Especially because monsters physically cannot leave bones behind when they die.
@@fairerplayz4759
Well you get their dust and compress it into a bone shape
Perhaps, but does that sound like something the skeleton brothers would do? I highly doubt sans or papyrus would willingly use dead monsters to create a weapon that they could just as easily carved from wood, rocks, or even made from plastic.
Bone Magic implies the existence of Boneless Magic
I think it’s weird you didn’t count Undyne’s spears for being made of energy, but you did count things like the stars as warcrimes.
Also, wouldn’t the ballet shoes in Omega flowey be another war crime, for the whole “no using things a child would likely be attracted to to murder” thing?
23:53 in this context they are being actively used as weapon (I think, the battle system is weird and abstract ) that means they are an improvised weapon.
A trap would need to be something like a land mine or everything from home alone, where the danger comes from the thing itself not the person using it.
Lesser dog: shows up to a war crime court
Everyone: "they're just doggies, parden them."
22:11
One thing I think you overlooked. The reasons the monsters attack you is because they plan on a literal genocide on humans.
Also about the in game attacks. it’s totally possible nearly all the attacks are not meant to be interpreted literally, but are just a representation of their magic. I always thought this because in game you are moving your soul, but in reality you’d be moving your whole body.
to add on to @phantomdergwulf, I think Flowey has a 49th war crime, deploying child soldiers (torture edition):
using the souls of dead children to psychologically torture other children, in this case to the point where it causes physical pain (being very stressed can lead to physical effects, and pain, in several forms, is one of them)
"I don't know what Flowey's bullets are made of, I assume theyre petals?"
seeds. seeds make a lot more sense. And are much easier to justify as being dangerous.
True, but I already indirectly called Flowey a trap and I don't know if I want to talk about him spreading seed in the same section
@@DaveyGunfacethey aren't seeds
They're seed shaped magic bullets
In the same way that sans and pap don't use actual bones, but rather use bullets that are bone shaped
20:00 that sounds like a “Your Mom” joke
Also, I think Papyrus literally just conjures them like some kinda Bone Elemental. He stores them ahead of time because unlike Sans, his whole MO is “be prepared”, and he’d rather have them ready to go than build them on the spot
On the note of the prison, the lack of bathroom might also have to do with the fact that monster food doesn’t pass thru the whole digestive tract, it just gets absorbed completely.
Another wrinkle to the pacifism playthrough is one that Frisk themselves wouldn’t know at this point, but the ONLY way to escape the underground is with a human soul and a monster soul. And the only kind of monster soul that can survive long enough for a human to use is a Boss Monster soul… like King Asgore
…if Undyne knew about this situation, and _didnt_ know that Frisk was naive to the situation, then she’s technically working to prevent Regicide. She says she’s doing you a favor because no one has ever gotten past Asgore anyway, but when you consider Papyrus’ comment, she also has reason to be concerned that his soft heart, combined with his clear second thoughts about his own plan, mean that SOMEONE is going to get hurt.
That second half doesn’t necessarily prevent it from being a Warcrime, I admit, but the inherently magical nature of the Underground makes things… weird
On the note of Asgore, he gives you MULTIPLE opportunities to retreat before the fight begins, so him destroying the MERCY button, while obviously still a big problem, is a bit more comprehensible in context as “it is literally impossible for both of us to survive AND even ONE of us to get their happy ending”. He’s entirely cool with being the one to die, but he feels needs to at least make an attempt
Again, that won’t hold in court, but if people could find a way to get fucking _Hirohito_ out unscathed, then Fluffybuns could probably get by with a House Arrest
5:59 His attacks are the equivalent of swinging your fists blindly while backing away in hopes of scaring the enemy away.
They're hoping the attack *_doesn't_* connect or that means your close by.
"The only thing Asgore does is spread more fire than a United States gender reveal party" is the hardest line in this.
I wonder if monsters are protected under the Genova convention because if they are would trapping them underground constitute as a war crime?
Considering that they seemed to live among the humans at first, it would technically count as genocide via forced displacement from ancestral lands. I'd say so, but I could be wrong because I'm not an expert in the Geneva convention.
Also crimes against Liberty
@raileynashpallada9559 is liberty prime commenting on my post? Glad to have you patriot
What
I really don't think we should discount Frisk being the size of a small country so quickly. I don't recall anything in the game deconfirming it.
The thing about Asgore's fight is that if you lose and then talk to him, he acknowledges that he knows how reloading works and that he's killed you before. So the only way to truly lose to Asgore is to give up and let him kill you, and he is 100% aware of this. So he's not just killing you, he's killing you multiple times until you finally choose death instead of fighting him anymore. I'm really curious what that would be classified as, it feels like it's something.
I'm also so happy that you mentioned Muffet's Genocide dialogue, as it seems like everyone skips it and it has some of my favorite bits, as well as showing that (by forcing Alphys to leave a backdoor open) she 100% doomed the world!
I feel like it’s much worse torture for Asgore than for Frisk, because he knows he’ll eventually lose.
I think that the dialogue saying how many times you've been killed by Asgore is referencing the other fallen humans and his guilt
1:05:48
Chara:"so you think your above consequences?"
This guy:yeah
I love these videos cause it presents the idea that not even monsters who are canonically socially coded to attack a human on sight are immune to being tried for war crimes
Ah yes, totally canon undertale, also, seeing this video sleep deprived is gonna be a ride
I made it while extremely sleep deprived too so maybe it'll resonate with you further
@@DaveyGunfaceit's the authentic experience
@@DaveyGunfaceYEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH, now go to sleep, you made a... well, it is a maserpiece of shitpost, but i don't know what else, still
I did the same exact thing. Now I sleep.
I love how there could be a whole damned second Geneva Convention solely focused on "DON'T BE THAT FUCKING FLOWER YOU INHUMAN MONSTER OF A MAN!!!"
Flowey really speedrun the entire list and turned it into the Geneva Suggestions
I suppose projectiles and attacks from enemies we see being magic and how it shapes out (like how bosses have fire magic, those being toriel and asgore)
doesn't get accounted nor matter...since...this a game
I was a little confused about why he was asking about the bones Papyrus has since... it's obviously magic? Monsters don't have bones, and there weren't enough humans who fell in the underground to have the unreasonable amount of bones he has, especially not the gigantic one
@@TheVoidIsCold also who the fuck has bones that are blue
isnt false surrender illegal too? since i believe we could make a case of Omega Flowey pretending to die/lose/whatever before loading save state can count as such
I think there's a genuine case to be made, although its really bizarre because he's not falsely surrendering or feigning injury to gain an edge in battle (since he always had that capability), its just Flowey being an asshole. I'd just throw it in with psychological torment tbh
@@DaveyGunface
Honestly, since he mentions in Genocide he already did EVERYTHING he could think of, that means he’s probably also found a way to commit every other Warcrime you haven’t mentioned yet, so you literally COULD put him down under “all of them”
I never though I'd hear "edging your soul" as a phrase.
Bro I'm laughing so hard.
you know, I haven’t ever really thought about how deeply fucked up alphys is. i kinda wish we got to see more of the consequences of that tbh, that feels like it would be a good addition to alphys’ arc
Ok look
As a whole alphys isn't that bad
Now again, hear me out here
Here's the timeline
The families hand over loved ones near death so alphys can practice what is essentially an organ donation
1. The people are sent over
2. Alphys injects them with dt thinking that since dt allows humans to persist from death and come back perfectly fine it should do the same to monsters
3. The monsters wake up and are perfectly fine, alphys tells the families that the experiments worked and their family will be home soon
4. The next day she goes back to see that they've all started melting into amalgamated substances and have fused together
5. She tries to find ways to help, not being able to send home these people after telling the families thst they were all fine, and feeling guilt and shame for what she's done to them
6. (After frisk comes along) alphys will either learn from you that she should just tell the truth finally as she can't hide it forever, and let's them all go, or in genocide it's revealed anyways as she uses the lab as a bunker to evacuate everyone
And in most nuteral endings she ends of offing herself due to the guilt of what she's done
I felt like Omega Flowey didn't need to be explained but it's so much funnier watching you explain it 😂
I really like imagining you speaking to the characters of undertale about this as the audience your addressing in the video.
Like they get a defense attourney for what happened and you are outlining the charges against them. Even if frisk isnt pressing charges, theyre still going to get in trouble.
I really like imagining the alphys part in thia context.
I loved the part where Davey said ‘It is currently Buggin’ time’ and proceeded to send Shadow Davey my home address
Oh don't get me wrong, Shadow Davey has a will of their own. I can't command them to do anything, they made that decision on their own accord and my only regret is not attempting to stop it before it could happen
I believe the "get dunked on" interaction is still a war crime.
After all, it amounts to killing a surrendered enemy.
That is not to say Chara would have to be kept alive for it not to be a warcrime. They could still charged with crimes against -humanity- monsterdom and then sentenced to death, that's perfectly valid even after a surrender but as soon as the kid decides to spare Sans they are no longer considered an active combattant and therefore, whilst Sans' decision to instantly execute them is understandable, it's still a war crime.
To be fair sans is a judge
Oh it definitely is still, don't get me wrong its a blatant violation on perfidy, although if any being that was hellbent (and successful) on committing mass genocide was steps away from ending the universe I feel like we wouldn't debate on whether or not getting dunked on was a step too far
@@DaveyGunface
I feel like Geneva would make a caveat for Omncidal threats if that were something they considered even remotely possible, anyhow. What’s even the argument here, reprisal? How can they do worse than literally nuking the universe?
it would be a pardoned war crime
@@DaveyGunface It's a war crime, but I'm pretty sure the charge gets dropped, because you can't exactly put the guy that stopped omnicide on trial and survive the ensuing outrage.
12:56 interestingly, the fire that Tauriel produces has the interesting ability to not burn those who touch it so it's just warm and not harmful unless specifically concentrated to burn
You know, this game is truly something special. I love it so much. And now one of my favorite CZcamsrs is covering it in, in my opinion, the best way possible? This is the best Friday ever.
24:40 well, if you look at his dialogue, I don't think he understood that you're gonna get killed. I think he just thought that it was possible to get the "Soul power" without harming or at least without killing you.
That does add a crime to Undyne because she's the one that told him to capture you and why and she "tricked him" into thinking you only needed to be captured buuuuuuut..... Whatever.
In his defense, King Fluffybuns is such a pushover that it’s hard for Papyrus to imagine Asgore actually wanting to KILL anyone… and he’s _mostly_ right about that.
Holy shit, another fantastic video. I can’t wait to hear how everybody in waterfall must be arrested by violating Weather Warfare rules.
You have inspired me to start documenting every warcrime in splatoon, and its funny, i dont have the sanity to read war crimes so your videos are my only reference i can bare to use
Undyne gives you a spear to block during her fight so you can't voluntarily drop your weapon (but that said when you do you are allowed to flee)
Given that many monsters don't even recognize that you are a human, I don't think that many of those count.
49:26 What about the “no quarter” thing in the Geneva Conventions? He did call no quarter on all humans who fall into the underground.
He admittedly half asses that pretty hard when we meet him, giving you as many opportunities to bail as he can conceivably think of, before straight up asking you if you REALLY want to throw hands, in a tone of voice that makes it clear that he does not
I’m not sure if it’s just because you’re number seven, or if it’s because you remind him of number zero, and trying to pick this fight just puts him thru the same emotional wringer as Dracula in the Netflix series when he smacked Alucard
Papyrus' bones could be collected antler carved into the shape of a bone, as gyftrot has antlers, and deer irl can painlessly shed their antlers seasonally, and we don't know how old paps is, so he could have had all the time in the world to collect a bunch of antlers and carve them into a bone shaped bone
Napstablook and Mad Dummy both go by they/them (Mad Dummy later possessing a Mew Mew doll and going by she/her)
I already said this to another comment. Appreciate you correctly using proper pronouns, not the point of said video.
He was more focused on what kind of War Crimes they committed, not on what pronouns to use. It doesn’t take away from the video.
@@DemonHunter2271 nonbinary war criminals are still nonbinary. you dont call putin a woman
I will say I think the most major of alphys crimes would actually be defendable in a court setting because she had no idea what was going to happen and (reasonably, in my opinion) didn’t assume she’d miraculously raise the dead. Still totally guilty for not telling their loved ones or dealing with it properly/taking accountability though.
😮 sheriff
Honestly? Yeah. The monsters would have died without external intervention, and I feel like if a doctor has substantial evidence to believe that a certain procedure would save a life, they can't be blamed for going with it. Especially considering how desperate the monsters' situation was.
@@Narpil I feel like it would essentially fall under the same domain as medical experimentation on corpses, and the game explicitly states that she asked their families for permission first and the monsters were already dust when she added the determination, so as far as I'm aware that's legal by US law
@@jellyfish1613Now I want to learn more about the legal implications of a monster having "fallen down". It's implied that they're not dead yet, but comatose, and that death is guaranteed to come soon. I wonder if this could be similar to the duty of a doctor to help a patient as opposed to futile medical care (beyond reasonable hope)
Just a heads-up, Mad Dummy is actually a she as shown in the Mad Mew Mew fight. Also someone did make a desktop port of the fight if you feel the unbearable urge to cover it for whatever reason.
And Napstablook's a they too.
I actually think mad dummy is they/them then she becomes mad mew mew and gets she/her basically all the ghosts are they/them until they find a permanent vessel
Can I get a link to the desktop port or something like this, I am terrible at searching such things up :(
@@puzzled3071
Yep, this.
Blooky is pretty much as confirmed Agender as possible when compared to their Cousins changing pronouns and the new book about translating the game putting HEAVY emphasis on Blooky having zero remote gendered traits, far more than even someone like Kris who the fandom constantly fights over, while ones like Frisk/Chara/MonsterKid seem pretty clearly intended for Headcanon unquestionably.
@@puzzled3071 Considering the obvious trans metaphor with Mew Mew, it's good practice to not refer to a person with pronouns (or names, really) they're no longer comfortable with, even in past tense.
Flowey has canonically went on a break the Geneva Convention sub hour speedrun.
Very amusing video! So, so you know, Undertale’s Monsters are made primarily of magic with very little physical matter (the dust) and every attack seen in battles is made entirely of magic (and not whatever real or fantastical object they look like) and, upon contact with the SOUL, deals damage to your psyche based on how much the monster wants to hurt you. Once your HP (hope) depletes enough (from battle or otherwise), your SOUL breaks and you die. If magic hits a human’s body while the soul is busy dodging attacks, nothing happens.
So, they don’t deal direct physical damage or do any of the effects of fire, water, the Sun, etc. when used in battle. Exceptions are in other types of magic, like fire magic used for cooking, blue, orange, green attacks etc., enemies changing the color of your soul, or Sans’ Komic Retribution mechanic.
If magic was as commonplace and natural as in the Underground, most of the monsters would be off the hook. But, since humans made the Geneva Convention, they would probably make using *any magic* illegal in this world due to their long-standing anti-monster bias.
1:38 Flowey
4:36 Toriel
5:00 The Ruins
8:31 Napstablook
10:27 Toriel battle
12:47 Pacifism vs Neutral vs Genocide
17:28 Papyrus
17:51 Snowdin
21:40 Glyde
22:11 The Royal Guard (Dogs)
22:31 Papyrus battle
25:17 Undyne
26:02 Waterfall
28:23 Shyren
28:58 Hotland & Knight Knight for some reason
30:05 The Mad Dummy
33:21 Undyne battle
36:46 Mettaton
39:30 So Sorry
39:45 Muffet
44:41 The CORE
45:15 Mettaton EX
47:52 Asgore
49:45: Omega Flowey
56:50 Alphys & the Amalgamates
59:07 The Souls
1:01:08 Asriel
1:03:04 Sans
1:03:49 Genocide
54:25 I'd say there's technically a case for Photoshop Flowey feigning death.
The thing about feigning death is that its a war crime in the case that its used advantageously, ala setting up an ambush or attack. I think the case can still be made since he obviously starts attacking you immediately afterwards though
@@DaveyGunface It's definitely pretty arguable. A bit pushing it, really. It's questionable if it really poses an actual advantage, it's mostly just to mock you. But there IS a case for it since you do stop attacking due to it, so I wanted to point it out just in case.
Also just wanna say I appreciate the response!
8:31 I'd like to bring up a point in Loox and many other random encounter monsters defense, based on dialogue and interactions between some of these monsters, I'd argue many of them are just kids, teens at most, (Vegetoid gives off an older vegie vibe with the face and health advice so he's out of excuses)
This trend persists in Snowdin too with Ice Cap, Snowdrake and... yes, he's included... Jerry.
On Aaron's flirting, I dont think any of the monsters except Asgore and Toriel know that you're a child. Hell, in the gencoide route some of them dont even realize you're human. None of them have met a human before. Or if they have, it's likely they were a child as well. So for all the underground knows, Frisk is a fully grown human
I counter this by saying if monster kid isnt wrong then having stripes on your clothing is meant to indicate your a child
@@augustonian3522 I counter your counter by saying that "if monster kid isn't wrong" is doing some _really_ heavy lifting in that sentence.
4:59 That one particular hallway was perfectly safe, even if a monster should enter, there's a pillar Frisk can hide behind.
This and the Portal OSHA video is the greatest thing you’ve created during your existence on Earth.
For once I'm early to a video...
Good to see more war crime videos, pretty unexpected game for it too. Cheers 🎉
30:42 you know
this feels like it can be brought up for continuation which would go over deltarune
*especially the 2nd chapter*
Not a war crime, but all the characters dating a child.
You have two choices now. Orange attack, you move on, maybe do this with other games, but never have to chain yourself to it the way you appear to have done with Pokemon. Blue attack, you stay, and do Deltarune next; and sign your soul up towards releasing updates on that video every couple years as new chapters come out.
Luckily I think CZcams as a platform will perish in cinders before Deltarune Chapter Four comes out, so I think I'm in the clear... for now
@@DaveyGunface
There’s always Ace Combat: it’s practically a meme over there that the day is saved by “a psychotic mute war criminal”, but I’m frankly not sure how MUCH of the stuff the protagonists do count as warcrimes.
@@spindash64project wingman:
Thanks for making what you do, it's always the highlight of my day when you upload, especially when it's something I'm already really interested in. That one video you made on Coelacanths might be my most replayed video yet. I know there's lots of jokes about the monotony, but I think it really adds to the appeal, and makes the jokes more funny. Hope I'll be able to support this monetarily when I'm financially stable enough, will be sure to share this with my Undertale friends in the meantime.
also sorry for writing an essay in your comments lmao
edit: oh yeah also quick thing, Blahaj is pronounced like "blau high" but the mispronunciation is way funnier so stick with that
this entire video felt like a discord call of a friend ranting about the war crimes and undertale
Found your channel when looking for good nuclear throne content, stayed for the war crimes 🔥. Would be cool to see a short video of the war crimes committed in a typical nuclear throne run btw.
Running into every enemy with Gamma Guts is funny. I'm not sure if its strictly viable, but it is funny
The borders are very pretty i am glad you used them, did you draw them yourself or where did you get them from?
Those are actually borders that'll show up in the console editions of the game, which look REALLY nice. I'm kinda upset just aren't a feature by default for PC with how much dead space there is.
@@DaveyGunface Huh, the more you know
delterune has them too.
34:00
In nuteral for any kills outside the ruins she already knows about them, and has maybe over a dozen different diolog options depending on which one(s) you killed
So in a nuteral playthrough shes still attempting to stop you from killing more people
Ah... Despite your warning, the raid fake out scared the shit outta me.
to be fair to alphys, she never intended to make the amalgamates, nor for flowey to be/do what he was/did
Papyrus's only warcrime is his Cooking.
50:43 I feel like that specific line from flowey should be like 5 warcrimes at the least
"Turn around kid, it'd be a crime"