Wagon/Tail Vise Installation. Not Expensive, Simple and Very Effective!
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2021
- In this video I retro fit my old 4x2 workbench with a wagon vise. Its a nice and easy to make and install any doesn't cost a fortune!! It is great for hold work on the top of the bench and make planing easier!
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Well, you saved me from spending a lot of money on a wagon vice, but now I think I need a laser level haha. Great job John. Very good tutorial. Thank you.
Glad to help
I second that emotion😂
Hi John. I've been searching for retro-fit tail vise install ideas. Lots of info/ideas in YT land...some good, lotta bad. The good ones I found just didn't apply to my needs. I hit gold when I found your video, it's right up my alley. Well made video. Clearly explained the how's and the why's. Many thanx!
Love this. You explain everything. Most videos or at least the ones that run fast, don’t explain nothing as they go.
That'll definitely work well John, I have the veritas insert tail vice in mine which I found was a bit more expensive but easier to fit -- but I find that I've never *absolute* needed it and I've never used it for face planing at all. I do face planing on the opposite end to where your tail vice is (where your moxon/joinery minibench is standing) and plane up against a planing stop there, and if I need to keep the piece from rotating, I use a does foot or a batten with holdfasts or both. The tail vice is defintely useful but it's absolutely not *necessary* for face planing on a nicholson bench (or a roubo or a morovian for that matter, all of the old designs do face planing the same way) and all the times I've used it, I don't use it for face planing operations, but for other workholding stuff like when doing carving and chisel work for the 17th century new england carving stuff - there, it's nice and handy.
The advantage of the does foot and planing stop approach is speed when you're flattening one face by hand - you can put the board against the stop and take a few swipes with the hand plane and then just pick it up, look at it, flip it over and test for rocking on the bench, figure out where the next swipes go and put the board back against the stop and do that whole cycle really fast - well under ten seconds when you're in the swing of it.
The downside of trying to do that with a tail vice -- and this is why I don't do this -- isn't so much the speed decrease because you're winding and unwinding the vice, that's not so bad really - it's that if you overcrank the vice, the board flexs and now it's bowed and you wind up chasing your tail trying to get it flat, and because the vice screw lets you apply huge amounts of force with very little effort, it's not always easy or obvious to see where the board is flexing, especialy with thinner stock. Ironically, this is the very strength of the tail vice when doing workholding for carving or things like that. It's just face planing that it can bite you on.
Mind you, you use the planer/thicknesser, so this may all be academic to you :) I just use a lunchbox thicknesser and hand-flatten one side and edge first - I've no room in the shed for a jointer and even if I did, the accident reports from those things are terrifying, so a few minutes with a #05 and #08 sounds like more fun to me anyway :)
That's brilliant my friend. Since I watched this video. I've been trying to figure out how to incorporate one of those into my plywood workbench. I built a plywood workbench when I started woodworking. And planned on using power tools. But since then, (about 3 years ago) I've started using handtools for a lot of the work I do. And the cheap vice I bought on Amazon isn't cutting it anymore. So I'm looking to add another type of vice to my bench. Or I may just upgrade the face vice that I currently use. Idk yet. But I can't stop trying to figure out how to put a wagon vice in my bench. So I may go that route. Thanks for the inspiration once again.
You are very welcome.
Great cost effective way to achieve a very useful vice. That hardware can get very expensive. Thanks too for the idea for lining stuff up in the workshop with the lazer level. Especially since I've just ordered a new toy yesterday. Dewalt lazer level.
Nicely thought out project and well executed - should prove to be a useful modification.
Great job, John. I found the video really useful and well -made. I built my bench about 18 months ago and am now at the stage of wanting to fit a tail vice. Great video. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I am building this tomorrow. It was great seeing it done before doing it it. The dogs in the clamping block is a great idea. Thanks!
Glad it was useful 👍
Great video John ,Thanks
I am planning to build a bench soon, and have cut the screw out of an old, but hardy used, car scissor jack to use as the screw for the wagon vise. It has a plastic hand wheel at the fixed end plus a hexagonal shaft so that I can always use a socket and brace if I need to drive it a long way quickly. This is a very cheap solution as I would be scrapping the car jack anyway.
Nice one John, can't wait to see your hardwood bench build.
The moveable part of a Wagon Vise is called a sliding dog block.
Simple and clean.
Thank you for showing me the importance and application of using a laser.
Brilliant. Love the laser level tips.
I’m in the middle of my work bench build. Haven’t yet glued up the laminates for the top. This will be easy to add.
Fantastic work, John! I loved it! 😃
I still have to build my workbench... But I'm definitely going to make something like that!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Amazing video, mate. Just about to have a go at one of these myself. This was really helpful. Thank you.
Parabéns, Ficou simples mas fincional, Tomarei como exemplo em fazer a minha, Grato
Well done!
Congratulations on your new vise! Well built, good videography and great narration/demonstration!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video love the design
Cheers Sam
Awesome video John! I am installing the same screw into my bench and I appreciate the detail you shared in this video!!
Glad it helped
i always see the laser levels walking thru the HD and think for a second. i didnt think of half of the uses you show in the video. great job on the vise too
Hey man, I’ve been doing the magnet on the chuck key too, I really like that move. I thought I was the only one!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that makes those noises getting up from the floor 😂
Very creative.
Excellent idea! I will certainly use it here in the construction of my workbench...
I just think you should have used more robust screws to fasten the vise to the workbench, screws with nuts, like the screws to fix the sides of a bed, for example.
Thanks for sharing!
I need one of these
So did I
Love this!
Glad you liked it 👍
Nicely done! Simple, inexpensive design
Glad you like it!
Great job!!!!
I used this screw to my leg vice - plenty of power!!!!
Hi John, great bit of work there mate. I saw Rob Cosman’s one on his channel and looks a great bit of kit. But looks complicated and expensive to make. Your idea is spot on for us mere mortals 🤣🤣👍
Hey John, nicely done all around. the project came out well, you have given your bench outstanding usability and the price was obviously right!! This was my first video of you in your shop and found it easy to watch and follow ... your quite comfortable in front of the camera. Well done Mate ... Cheers
Thanks Dave
Nice one lad :) I got a scandinavian vise screw from Dieter Schmid a couple weeks back for retrofitting to my bench :P The screw on mine wont go through the dog block (thats what i call it but i dunno if its right) so il have to make runners for it to slide on. And it also means that the tommy bar and screw will protrude out the side of the bench when the vise is in the open position........wonder how many times im gonna burst me hip into it when im movin around the bench hehe :P
Excelente !. Me gustó. Paso a paso con soluciones en el camino. Gracias
Great video and well described John.... Cheers Paul
Thanks Paul.
Glad to see your knee’s looking better
Super Cool!
Nice because you show the final product right at the beginning.
Nicely done! I think the only thing I would change would be to turn the captive nut around and inset it flush into the carriage block, and gain that extra little bit of travel
Very nice!
Thanks 👍
17:00, that would be the traveller, John. Super video, delivery and content! Had my sub before even finishing! Keep up the great work! L
Cheers Lee
Good man John
Excellent video John, really useful, showing all the tricky parts and how to overcome them, great result too… top notch YouTubing mate!!
Thanks 👍
Hey john love your content. I like the method and plan to execute this build on my workbench. One small complaint though it seems you tend to explain what you are doing, and then jump to the finished product. It occurred to me that if you could voice over while you are doing it, it might make it clearer than explaining it and then jumping to the finished step. Anyways keep making content. It’s useful and helpful to the weekend warriors. Thanks
Great video John. Really useful. Hoping to build my own bench in the near future, will definitely reference back to this vid.
Handy tip care of Rob Cosman comes to mind... a rubber ‘o-ring’ on the inside of the handle against the knob... helps protects the knob and deadens the noise when dropped.
Shuttle is what we call it here.
Just a note. The leg vise screw is made to be used in tension, so the flange is on the outside and the two small screws are just to help pull the jaw open as you unwind the vice. In your application the two screws will be subjected to the full clamping force.
I would just monitor the situation. If the two screws hold it’s happy days. If not see if you can used bolts and recessed nuts with large washers. They should be much stronger than the wood screws.
Also the fact that you are using a leg vice screw is the reason why the movement is counter intuitive.
Yes as I said it's not intended for this use. It's for a L shaped tail vise. It could also be used for a leg vise. It would need a reverse thread to tighten while turning the handle clockwise.
@@JohnMcGrathManInShed Hi John. Sorry if I sounded a bit like a know it all. I love the idea of getting something to work for what you need it to do, even if it was not designed to do it. That is part of why I enjoy you channel and the content you provide. keep up the good work!
nice!
That bit of oak is sometimes called a "captive sliding jaw."
Nicely done!
Thank you
it also called a wagon thus the name wagon vice
I've been thinking about this project for a very long time. Watching your video gave me the incentive to do it. You just bang it out beautifully! How hard can it be? OMG! It was such a HUGE project!! I want to see your out-takes! Where's all the cursing and swearing? I toughed it out, and now I have a beautiful wagon vise, but the PTSD is terrible!
I was thinking of doing the same thing a while back. I’d never thought that the screw would work in reverse though.
In this instance it's the nut that moves not the screw, so think of it and unscrewing the nut, the thread is not reversed.
Oh you have a whiskey channel. My kind of guy😂
John I believe the oak block is called the (shuttle)
Great Video John I'll be making one myself soon
Nice to see you youse bosch on 4x2 not the festool lol
Very nice. Going to install one right after Christmas. Do you have a preference for the bench dogs you used?
Very informative. Can you go into more detail about your laser?
Yeah no problem.
Gutted I can’t see the video. But it sounded quite interested how you did it. One day will have to build my own bench, for clamping Wooding getting a bit frustrated at the moment why I do stuff. Hope you’re looking after your knee sir
Stick with it Paul. Thanks as always for your comments.
Very nice! Did you think about putting bushings where the threaded rod is rubbing against wood? Just an idea. Not 100% necessary.
This video is helpful to me. I recently moved and need to build a new workbench. I was given a 1 1/2” threading kit and want to incorporate an end vise with a wooden screw. This video helps with the design. Now that you’ve had a chance to use your vise for a few months, have you found any hint of weakness of the attachment in the plate that is held with 8 screws in end grain?
I have had no issues so far you don't need a lot of pressure for work holding
I am curious how your future workbench will look like. I have been watching your channel for a while. Bought some 2x4 and going to build my first miter saw station. It will be my first project ever and it's based on your video. I wanted to ask you if you could also make some new videos for real beginners.
Will do, best of luck with the mitre station build.
I notice that at 26.20 the board you put down to plane lifts at the vice end. This will get worse as you use this. You are relying on the threaded rod to keep the block level. It will not as the hole is oversize. It will be level at the nut end but the other end will rise up and so will your work piece. You need to put runners in place even half inch alloy angle will do in the centre of the block and slots either side. You can then cut the rod and use the opening as a chair vice as well If you wish..
Fantastic job boss! Would there be any benefit to press fitting something like copper pipe into the oak block to allow it to ride over the acme thread on the vise screw?
The thread is not actually making much contact with the oak block the thread is 28mm the hole is 32 and the captive nut is screwed to the block so the thread is only passing through.
I wish this was my only vice, unfortunately iv'e got plenty more
Hi John, love your videos. I couldnt help noticing the thread is opposite to a "normal" vise?
Could the thread be swapped end for end to make it righty tighty?
Keep the videos coming! Hope your knee is healing up good!
Cheers.
The thread is standard,but the nut is moving in and out not the thread so think of it as unscrewing the nut, because the thread can't move the nut moves forward. Can't swap the thread around unfortunately.
Swapping the screw end for end will do nothing the change the the way you wind the screw. Think - if you turn a threaded rod end for end it doesn't change the way you put a nut on it. You would need a left hand thread on the screw to achieve what you would like and those are available as threaded rods
does seasonal expansion make the vise sticky?
Any downside to fitting a sealed radial bearing to the end of the screw and friction-fitting that into a recess on the block, just in the interest of preventing wear at that end?
That would work, could be a good idea
would it make sense to make this setup under the bench? it may be easier to attach and just used a longer dog to it? would that make the dog rack too much?
How did you secure the 2 by 4 together for your bench ? I like it allot
They are glued
Is Maple a closed grain wood?
This is a pretty solid little workbench. While once you figure out how it comes together, it is physically Easy to assemble czcams.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh by yourself. But the diagrams explaining the steps are really pretty bad. I could not get the handle pins in all the way despite multiple attempts, so I just used a screw I had on hand for the 2nd handle. I could not get the first pin in further or pull it back out. You are supposed to hammer it in, but I had no leverage and the handle is plastic and I did not want to risk breaking it. I will get a lot of use out of the bench because of the convenient size and height. It does fold up nicely for storage. They even explain how to fold it so you don't get pinched...that is important!
Hi John, have you discovered that you should have set the screw lower in the bench so that you don't hit the handle when planing max length pieces
Not at all the boards never go past the handle if they are caught by the dogs and the handle can be turned horizontal to drop below the top
@@JohnMcGrathManInShed No I mean hitting the handle with the plane, if say you are using a No7 or so, don't know if it's all the planets lining up against me or just Murphy's law but my handles always in the wrong place, backing the handle off just makes the job loose
Is that a Matt Estlea cabinet? Looks nice.
It is indeed and the tool box 🧰
Do you love sapele, John, or did you just get a great deal on it? I've seen it in a lot of your projects...
I like it, it's a lot like mahogany and I can get it I would like more exotic woods but they are hard to get. It's Ash, oak, maple, walnut and sapele that I can get my hands on.
So what is the name of the moving part? The wagon, perhaps?
looks quite handy! but is it just me or is that screw reverse pitch? It seems backwards from the vises I've used / seen. Is it because it's for it being an L shape vise?
Its a standard thread, it's just not being used how it was designed. The screw should move in and out with the handle but here the screw can't move only the nut. So think off it as unscrewing the nut, the nut then moves forward.
@@JohnMcGrathManInShed oh okay, gotcha! thanks for responding!
Nice mod to the bench looks great. Any suggestion for a good laser that will do both horizon and vertical
as I have my first big network install coming up and have lots of dado trunking to install
The bosch or the dewalt ones are good . 👍very handy for dado, trunking and conduit I use it all the time.
Awesome tip on the laser level! Hadn’t considered that for a woodworking tool in the shop. What level are you using in your shop?
I have a bosch one, you will be amazed at what you can do with it. It can really speed up marking out and assembly.
Sorry I’m confused 🤔 how does the wagon manage to travel up and down the bolt without the bolt moving back and forth. I don’t he how the captive bolt system works. Sorry. Be grateful for an explanation.
Think about a nut and bolt, If you turn the nut it moves up or down the bolt, if you turn the bolt it moves in and out through the nut. If the bolt can't move in and out the nut has to move.
Hi john
I was looking at workshop heaven but I see there biased in the UK was there any problems importing it becase of Brexit
No issues, just check the import duty. Delivery to Ireland usually takes 2-3 days tops.
Good videos very informative overall- quick feedback that you tend to repeat yourself a lot eg "as I said" "like I said" etc. It's a little distracting/probably makes videos longer overall than they need to be. Thanks for the content!!
Noted!
Hi I am just to the point where you use your laser level, I am surprised you used your chisels to cut to the end, a much better choice would have been a oscillating tool and would have left a much better finish.
A multi tool won't cut 4 inches deep and stay square, the blade attachment will sit on the side wall moving the blade off square. I could have come at it from underneath but I can't kneel down with my knee at the minute.
Man from england ,,,,, backwards ,,,,,,,,, tight CCW , loss CW , like the way they drive the car on the wrong side the street , ,,somethings never change ,,,,,, that's England !
you need to get oneself a multitool .
I have one wouldn't use it here
GLASSES John. Think of your family.
Левая резьба в заблуждение вводитили там наоборот нужна левая резьба?
Устал слушать, даже до середины недосмотрел.