Apple’s VR headset will be *fine*
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2024
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We've been hearing rumours about Apple's upcoming AR/VR headset for years now. But seeing how slowely the tech category has grown over that time period, something seems off. So, before the next Apple event, we investigated.
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 A new VR headset this way comes
0:41 Trying to look cool
2:27 Seeing where we're at now
3:19 This is not anything new
4:36 Thanks Squarespace
5:12 What should Apple's headset do?
7:45 Since they're not doing AR...
9:42 Thinking a little more simply
12:09 The industry is excited - Věda a technologie
Love the overall tone on this channel. Still personality driven like other LTT stuff, but more playful and inquisitive. Shooting on location and out in nature are a really nice contrast to the rest of the indoor, office based LTT stuff too.
Yeah, they’ve got a good thing here.
absolutely agree, I love the range of LMG
For real. I was gonna say the same thing, the tone of this video is great and unique among the LTT channels
Why do people say this every video? We get it 😂
Yes absolutely this!
I love that you guys brought in an expert from academe. This is one of the reasons I check into MAC Address not for apple content but all the juicy tech/industry adjacent stuff that is tangentially a pretty big deal all things considered.
Keep at it M.A. team!
100% agree.
That old dude never used a quest befor so I don't think he knows what he's talking about.
He thought the nreale glasses we're cool. It was like the first time he put eny thing on his head.
@@jamesharter4973 There are different approaches and perspectives to this topic. He clearly was well informed about not only the history of technology but also the social and philosophical conditions surrounding their development.
I don't think he made good points.
He said, "what I would want is nothing but a gain..."
Of course that's what everyone wants but it's not necessary or realistic.
Smart phones went from having physical keyboards to bigger touch screens and they lost a little haptic feedback and physicality to gain a lot of flexibility. Clearly lots of people found the trade off worth it.
There were a lot more down sides to 3D TVs than losing the shared experience. It may not be so bad to give up the shared experience in exchange for a much more immersive experience.
My wife doesn't like action movies. I hate Love Island. We often go and watch things in our own little bubbles. When we want to watch something together, we can still use the TV.
My wishlist:
* App multitasking. Imagine being able to pick up apps and tuck them in behind others like a deck of cards to switch between apps.
* Creative applications. Things like 3D sculpting or modeling, possibly gamedev, and the like come to mind...Or Blender Grease Pencil...
* I'm not sure it's quite the right fit for Apple, but AI integration with some sort of AR assistant could be interesting, but I'm not sure they have the wherewithal to do what needs to be done in that space. It would be an interesting excuse to get people to buy expensive Mac variants of AMD pro GPUs, though...
\-> * To add onto the AI notes, some sort of tool for creative use that didn't use AI to generate an image, but to generate a rough 3D visualization of a 2D image could be interesting, even for artists, particularly animators to plan out their cuts and complex "camera" movements.
* Device management. Being able to see a popup (above the device, using their location data!!!) showing the state of other Apple devices and manage them could be a killer feature. "I'm going to use my Macbook/iPhone in 6 hours, so I'll set it to only fully charge then", "I have updates for my iPhone and iPad, so I can install both without looking at the devices", and such come to mind.
* Some sort of map integration to be able to "walk" through areas on a route you're planning, to get a feel for how it'll be driving through there, is something else that comes to mind.
My non-wishlist, or things I don't want:
* I don't want to do regular audio production in VR at all, for instance. It's possible being able to have a 3D visualization of the mix (or at least reverb simulation) might be handy for mixing things like orchestral music, but that seems extraordinarily niche.
* My spreadsheets do not need to be incorporated into VR, as well.
* Overall, I don't want *everything* in VR. Just the things that can benefit from VR is more than enough.
Viewing a timeline is probably still best on a monitor, but I've considered adding many extra monitors to be able to have glanceable VST interfaces so I could maybe see AR as useful for that.
Especially if they were presented visually and UX-wise like rack mount units or guitar pedals... probably as an option to choose between for overlaying the existing UI rather than something for developers to make anew. I love tweaking knobs IRL but hate it with a mouse, and keeping a memory map of how you've assigned MIDI controllers to the functions is still quite different to one-knob-per-function visibility.
> App multitasking
oh, so we're still in pre-windows days, but VR
The interview with Eugene Fiume was really well done. Great audio and lighting, editing worked great as well. Would love Mac Address (and LTT for that matter) to do more of these professional/journalistics approaches. Especially with experimental and developing topics like Mixed Reality.
I’m not sure I would buy into augmented reality. But the idea of having a virtual 50 inch HDR screen that I can strap on for video editing. It’s pretty neat.
The nreal is great in a way. It's has a crisp image. The only issue is the fov and comfort. Based on the leaked specs, apple will have a far superior image which will make it look amazing.
I love plugging in the nreal for general viewing and the steam deck. But that field of view (and an app that isn't compatible with all devices for 3dof) take the shine off.
Microsoft has been in the game for ten years now
My girlfriend has purchased me so many games for my Oculus, but all I use it for is watching movies in bed, it's like being in a movie theater. I can make the screen as big as I want plus I can control my pc with it and pretty much do 90% of everything I would do at my desk in my bed. I can't wait for something smaller with a wider FOV. I am probably getting Oculus 3 when it comes out.
Not sure how neat it'll be with a giant, weighty headset strapped to your face that runs on battery, though.
That would be cool, but I have my doubts it will replace a real 50 inch HDR screen, at least in first gen.
9:50
Heh, spot on. That's basically exactly what Apple said in the keynote.
7:00
Exactly. It feels (and I’ve heard this over and over), that VR is stuck in a demo phase, even though there is much more potential to it. It seems no one wants to take that leap out of “demo phase”
Meta leaped out of the demo phrase right into the garbage. I don't think they know where to leap to. With the current size of headsets it is just not ready for a regular endconsumer. The only thing I can see taking off is virtual screens like the Nreal glasses they showed. They are just need a little more refining
There’s still more VR headset in the world in there has ever been the past. Technologies that had been mass produced for smart phones have enabled good VR hardware at relatively cheap prices compared to that of the past.
I’d agree on consumer VR/AR. Industrial applications or training applications have been in use for quite some time.
@@devluz The biggest thing with meta headsets is ease of use and cost. Quest 2 for an entry of 400, soon to be back to 300 for an all in one VR package is pretty revolutionary. Quest 3 is right around the corner with a smaller footprint, twice the speed and improved screens and optics for 500. We can't really push the extremes because, like this apple headset rumored to cost somewhere around 3000$ and require a belt battery (all of these are rumors)? These revolutionary jumps cost money and that will ultimately be pushed to the end user.
It's been out of it's "demo phase" for a while. I think the mistake is in seeing VR as something it's not. VR is a gaming medium. It's a new medium for art. It's not for everyone. It's not the next smartphone. As a gaming device, it's already been ready. It has good games. It's replaced traditional gaming for a lot of people.
i really like this format, where you ask different people what their thoughts are about topic X, and then ask an actual expert knowledgeable in X.
a lot of people don't do this format because it's a bit hard (and time consuming) to string together various contrasting opinions into a cohesive whole, so kudos to the channel!
I had literally no expectations for this video or the direction it would go and yet you have absolutely shocked me with this engaging and thought provoking discussion on apple VR. Bravo your team has really found it's stride. Beautiful camerawork, editing and cinematography as always.
9:52 haha, they basically made the exact same argument in their presentation
i love how no one could have possibly watched the entire video yet
Unless they watched on 2x speed
fr
@@bubbledoubletrouble 5x speed on revanced?
I have formed my fully informed and important opinion within the first 10 seconds
Ok
I agree with this, it'd be amazing to have a virtual monitor with Apple's mixed reality headset, allowing us to work from anywhere with just a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. However, I fear it might end up like the iPadOS vs MacOS experience. Instead of carrying a whole laptop, it would've been cool to use an iPad for everyday tasks and seamlessly switch to a laptop setup with a keyboard for work. But since Apple wants to separate the tasks done with the iPad from the Mac, iPadOS is designed to be limited and to be only an extension for the Mac. That might be the plan as well for this mixed reality headset, an extension of the Mac and not a stand alone device.
What kind of pixel density would it take for a pair of glasses to be able to project, say, a 4k display into mixed reality that would be anything close to as good as a real monitor? The DPI would be in the multiple thousands. That's what would be necessary to go from "Oh, that's cool" to "I would use this."
Not saying I don't want it, just saying that the physical limits of the technology aren't there yet.
I would argue that for creatives, the software on the iPad is on point, for example, many artists at least start their digital work on an iPad using Procreate or Fresco. Nomad Sculpt looks like a fairly viable 3d modeling program. Teams and Zoom work just fine on the iPad. And the iPad has for a few years now, worked at a tablet extension of the Mac OS - that is, you can use it as a second monitor and use it to do Photoshop illustration. I'm finding it hard to bet against Apple overall. Especially since this is their first real foray into VR. Usually, they are onto something, even if the viability isn't fully there for a little while. And other people have tried this tech/product and failed with enough use case studies for Apple to formulate a more effective strategy than other companies who tried it. We shall see. The AAPL stock will be doing something tomorrow, that's for sure. Probably it will be up.
Well, now we know better. They did change the game with Vision Pro!
0:54 they directly addressed this in today’s presentation. Cool prediction
The software is probably what I’m looking forward to the most, in addition to the lighter headset as a result of the battery being external. But I’m not looking forward to the price.
im expecting the price to be at least $3999.
its apple so yeah the price will be jurastic and make it a lot more inaccessible to the public in comparison to the likes of the oculus quest 2 or playstation vr 2
@@paulusjosef You’re probably right and it will kill it before it even begins. That’s just too much unless it’s truly revolutionary.
@@paulusjosef I expect $2,499.00
I hope the software will be better than iTunes or Aperture 😅
Not really feeling like I'm an old person saying this (being only 22), but...
Personally, the whole VR/AR shabang from the WWDC today was not really only quite bland, but also disconcerting to watch - actually kinda goosebumps Matrix-kind of territory, and all that for what...?
For your children to see fake eyes that don't age overtime, or how effing novelty-like the whole "look at these 3D animations of each app" feels? Not to mention people, even your loved ones, that come into frame just not simply being handled with like "Oh, hi there, how are you?"... REEEALLY weird how kinda unrealistic the circumstances were displayed, ignoring the still-visible real undertones that leave a bitter aftertaste to some, but will most likely (blindly) sell for the rest of people.
Experience nature you cannot travel to due to high costs - by buying a device of an even higher cost. Do work, by wearing a massive device on your head that even "design" can't really help with. Say hi to people that need your attention - only for you to tell them to go away in reality. And the eyes being viewed by others...
Part of me is curious to see if it actually succeeds, but after facebooks billion dollar fail to make VR an industry standard, I feel like this will also have a rough launch, might end up being like the airpods max or butterfly keyboard, but it could do well.
true, honestly reminding me of metaverse just makes the pessimist side of me say this will be another black spot in apple's long road but there is hope as to see what they can do with this and make it work
While this is true they’re completely different companies. If Facebook tried to make a mass shopping service it would fail, that doesn’t mean Amazon isn’t viable or successful.
Honestly the AirPods Max sell more than they seem, they have become more popular over the years. I personally cant wait for the max 2’s.
Facebook has no prior experience making mainstream devices in new industries, facebook has no experience making new operating systems for devices, no prior experience with integrating high quality small cameras into slim compact devices, no prior experience making custom chips. Apple has decades of experience in every single one of these categories, and each of the mentioned categories are absolutely essential to a good VR or AR product no matter how much money you have, it's about the people you have. Apple has the people, apple has the experience, you will see on monday.
As a VR user for 10 years, the biggest problem has been resolution up to this point. Apple has largely solved it. You're going to get visuals that come close to a 1440p monitor surrounding your vision. Without gaming being the driving force, it will be interesting. The thing about VR though is it doesn't really make you want to do things, it makes you want to be in places. Maybe Apple can unlock that by polishing the visuals.
coming here from WWDC to see how relevant and accurate this vid is
Apple knocked everything they wanted and much more out of the park, reality is going to die next year
I really hope the futurist guy who discussed replacing screens and tried those glasses has seen Dennou Coil. It's a short anime, but it's a lot more serious than it might seem on the surface; some critics have compared it to Ghost in the Shell.
It really examines what it means to have the screens come with you everywhere, both experientially and societally. How it affects interpersonal interactions, and also stuff like even more intimate privacy invasion - they're not just with you everywhere you go like a phone, they're on your face processing imagery at all times. And it's all underlined by being run by a monopoly, which opportunistically charges money every time you need to do anything major - like reset the device, or if your virtual pet gets corrupted, or you're upgrading to a new pair.
The company which runs it in the present of the setting is even a bigger conglomerate which bought out the original company after it proved financially viable, and suddenly diverted R&D resources away from their original bigger long-term goals toward enhancing profit-margins. (Presaging the Oculus purchase.)
The kids' parents just use it to take video calls and share spreadsheets and stuff, with shared vision among everyone in a space, and it seems completely mundane to them. But, outside of schoolwork, the kids have all sorts of games they play (including illegal hacking and jailbreaking). Most of the perils the kids want to avoid, rather than being magical and fantastical, involve stuff like being banned from the monopoly's network, or tripping city firewalls, or otherwise landing them/their parents in financial peril through fines for DMCA/EULA-breaking.
There's even a wonderful scene where they all have to use regular phones because of temporary plot reasons about the network, and the kids are bewildered and baffled by how their parents got along with "just" a smartphone. They're also baffled about why there was such a moral panic when they first came out, because their "cyberglasses" are so much more immersive and addictive. _That's_ the "I just have a landline" of the cyberglasses age.
There's a few more whimsical/unrealistic elements of course, like making the location part of the programming to such an extent that there's entire hidden databases to find (and consequently "worlds" to explore) which can only be unlocked by first taking some circuitous route around the city. And some of the program functions are skeuomorphised to the extreme, like a search program which you literally use like you're reeling in a fish, which goes overboard versus reality for the sake of visual dynamism.
But the deeper cultural critique is so much more mature than a lot of people expected when it came out!
I’m not really an anime person, but this sounds like a cool premise for a show, and one that could appeal to me.
VRChat is very much social vr. I moved to a new city and have few friends here but I still have my friends in vr that I've gone onto meet irl and we build legitimate memories in vr, have parties, talk about heavy life stuff. We DO watch movies with friends and it's a fantastic experience, even just found 3d movies in vr. These people are talking about things they haven't even really used. It's here and it works.
I have a friend who has mobility issues and this is how he uses vr
I love nerding out about new tech and Apple is undeniably a titan of a tech company, but what's often lost in the spec sheets, use cases, competitor analyses, etc. is that Apple is also a titan of a LIFESTYLE company. It's less about what the VR headset will be good for, Apple can figure that out with time (like they did with the iPad, Apple Watch, etc.) but what the general public thinks owning an Apple VR headset will say about them.
The AirPods Max are underspec'd for their price when compared to competitors. They add very little functionality when compared to competitors. They have undeniable design faults which competitors have solved ages ago.
And yet, they're all the rage with fashion, fitness, and lifestyle influencers, upper-middle class teenagers, and tech "enthusiasts" (aka CZcams tech reviewers).
This is definitely true with some of their products, but not all. AirPods Pro for instance, and the iPhone are both examples
That mostly comes from Apple's reputation as a whole, which makes people want to pay the premium for their products. They haven't really innovated anything in a good while (since the iphone?), and I would argue that the Apple watch didn't achieve a lot either. I believe that it is a matter of time until their reputation dwindles down to that of an average manufacturer if they keep their current trajectory, as it's already been degraded a lot.
The airpods max also definitely aren't that popular, as I still see most people still wear Sony or Bose headphones than anything else, or just cheaper headphones. The only ones that really caught on are the original airpods.
I live in Silicon Valley, and I’ve never seen AirPods Max out in the wild, so I really don’t think they’re all that popular even among tech enthusiasts
@@AltecEI don’t think I explained myself too well but I put “enthusiasts” in quotes to mean CZcams tech reviewers and the like, less so engineers, product managers, and Silicon Valley professionals.
@@toml8273oh I definitely recognize that Apple know damn well how to make excellent tech products that provide utility that often outmatches competitors. I’m mostly an Apple product owner myself, but I just don’t really think the Apple VR headset (or any shiny new Apple product) needs to RELY on utility in order to be successful.
what i think would make more people cling to it more is the possibility of collaboration and social aspect, and i dont mean in in "VR Chat" way. No, I mean e.g. if me and my friend were in the same room, both with headsets, that we could be interacting with the same projection in space in the same exact spot, seeing synced changes with low latency, i think that would be great
I think for productivity, it is very exciting. I work in a structural engineering office and everyone here has either two or three 27" screens and I chose to ditch the multi screen setup and buy one huge 38.5" 16:9 1440p screen but if we had headsets we could just ditch the screens entirely and just hook up our headsets to our PC's and have one huge workspace with windows all around us. Also if the 3D modelling software keeps up with the tech then being able to model with your hands and have the toolbars all around the egde of your view like a HUD then that would be awesome. I would be tempted to buy the Apple VR headset if the price was reasonable but all the rumors are saying its going to be crazy expensive so it's a no from me. Maybe in a couple of years when they get cheaper and better.
No way he predicted the name.
If they could really do 4k movies really really well (no adverse effects to health etc), at the equivalent of a 100" screen at 3 metres, I'd be all in as a starter. If it could then do photo editing, such that the App would allow a "walk through of layers" then that would be amazing.
$3500 with no VR? Cuz you got what you wanted.....
Great video and great opinions with the professionals. I really appreciate the extra work on these videos.
There's something weird with the sound of indoor takes. A slight background noise that wasn't filtered.
Would LOVE a follow up with everyone on this video once Vision Pro is released
You nailed this one. For a while, I thought I was re-watching this vid during the actual announcement.
I’d prefer walkable AR glasses. I double we’ll get that for a while especially because of power.
We’ll likely get Apple’s take on existing VR that costs 3x more, be the best, but rely on Apple Arcade
I have a feeling with 12 cameras it’s not just staring at iPhones on your eyes in a face closed box. They hopefully will be leaders in AR. Also I heard about an external battery so not tethered
I have concerns with walking around the streets with a $1500 device on my face😂
"be the best", maybe for standalone applications but its not going to come close to PSVR2 or high-end PC VR.
@@alexatkin They'll put some custom SOC like an A15/M1/M2 in it. It'll be powerful and efficient.
@@gingerman5123 most recent reports are saying that it has an M2 chip pushing pixels for each eye (2 chips total). 2 M2's would be insane.
I can see VR being useful for watching movies - the idea of having an IMAX cinema from the comfort of my sofa is very appealing.
AR's main application for me would be monitor replacement - in addition to a laptop or connecting a keyboard/mouse up to it.
For use outside of that I could see a pair of light AR glasses being like the Apple Watch, an extension/distillation of the phone but not a replacement. I'd put them on for directions while walking/driving etc and the Watch could be a useful way of controlling them (e.g. stopping/starting a workout)
Trouble is, you wont get the image quality of IMAX in a VR headset. PSVR2 has made huge improvements here, but it still pales in comparison to a good HD screen, never mind 4K. Its even more tricky with AR as you don't have the benefit of focusing a small section of a high resolution screen onto your eyes using fancy lenses in a blacked-out closed box.
I really wish it WAS simple, as it would mean 3D would be practical again (something annoyingly Sony forgot with PSVR2 as it wont work with 3D videos).
VR is not watching 2D floating screens with 3D characters popping out the top amd sides, VR is being inside a 3D environment with 3D characters walking up to you, but sure if that's all you want
@@alexatkin 100 billion dollar companies don't forget features, they chose to leave it out for a reason. PS5 is expensive enough without adding to the cost maybe? Buy a PS4 and vr1
@@ConservativeJuggaloPodcast Whatever, I just want my own personal IMAX cinema while sat on my couch
I can’t wait to try the Vision Pro for myself but in the mean time I can’t wait to see and hear you and Eugene’s first hand impressions of actually using the Vision Pro, you both do such a great job of articulating your ideas on what it is and what it will potentially become.
11:55 I think the implementation should be more like the glasses recognizes your desk and shows your virtual displays only when you at your desk and when you stand up to get a for example a cup of voice u can leave the glasses on (like u should) and have a clear view (like with normal glasses) and when you’re back at your desk the virtual displays are still there.
So you have a wider let’s say canvas to position you displays etc in front of you but can also decide on which area they should be…
They made your video obsolete real quick.
I love MacAddress. The content, the pacing, the visual, the topics... and with this video in particular, I really enjoy the input of Eugene Fiume.
Thanks Jonathan and team, keep up the good work!
I really hope to get AR glasses that can use together with monitor displays, especially cintiq tablet.
Time stamp 9:53 can we all appreciate the fact you actually called Apple’s marketing strategy 3 days before they launched it… Well done!
For real it was verbatim in the presentation
I'm convinced that the whole Stage Manager paradigm Apple introduced last year is a huge part of what they think is going to make MR great in that 'display-less' world mentioned. The entire design of it feels geared to task based workloads that you could flip between on a MR desktop. Making that mistake of UI/UX design a mere beta test makes the exact kinda sense that Apple does.
I've no idea if it will translate better than it did on Mac/iPadOS, but I'm kinda excited by the possibilities
They have potentially just changed another industry...
By doing things that other companies have already been doing for years?
How is it that every time Apple release something that's already been done by others, better and for cheaper that there's always people who seem to think Apple are the first company to do it?
@@ViridianFlow I am very much aware that they are not the first company to release a product like this, and I am also aware that they did not invent the concept.
However, i beg to differ on your point that other companies have been producing products like this "better and cheaper", it appears that this will be the best implementation of the concept BY FAR.
Additionally, this product will likely convince other companies to invest in the concept; And if so, this will have a major impact on the pace at which this industry develops. Hence my comment, they have potentially changed another industry.
Although an avid apple user, i am willing to look at both sides of the equation. Are you?
had a quest 2 for quite a while now, the main issue with these is there just isnt enough people developing good games and apps for it, bringing apple onboard will be a good thing as we should start to see more games and apps being ported two and from the headsets are they are all going to be linux / arm based.
incorporating vr with 3d modelling would be cool, like actually seeing your model in 1:1 scale infront of you
Really liked the video, and the documentary style with guests and library footage.
I hope the key thing that comes from Apple doing this is to avoid the things that killed the Google Glass. It'd be nice to have something to remind me of people's names! (You'd have thought that would be Meta's speciality... but I guess LinkedIn demonstrates that good but niche can be a winner over universal.)
These interviews were a nice addition to the video, Eugene was really informative
This channel is really shining, and the academic cut ins are a great addition.
Love the in person interview. I wish more people took the time to do those. You had the zoom interview looking up a guy's nose, but I still gotta give you kudos for the other one. Also great to get some outside perspectives from people who might know more about a given subject and have something worthwhile to add.
by the way, each video you release I like more and more than the last at least for 2023.
Keep up the great work to you and your team and know that some of us don’t just watch to kill time but also learning and kept wondering, and albeit.. hoping for the future.
A virtual and functioning editing bay that looks like an old Steenbeck would be awesome. You could theoretically have as many as you want and work with other people on a project in real time. Also a virtual storyboarding app that is shared with a team so that we could work anywhere.
Replacing the display was really a big hit for me. Forget about games or simulations. Just make a pair of glasses that can have 1080 resolution display with fast refresh rate and increase resolutions from there. And have it so that it has privacy mode or that only I can see it.
Hey man love the vids when I found your channel I started watching all of them can’t wait to see you grow
I think technology like Sidecar was developed for this application specifically. Being able to really responsively project a high power computer on a low power platform is actually underrated in the industry. Same with other continuity technologies.
Really liked this style content. Loved the interviews and deep dive into the subject. More like this please ❤
Gotta say I absolutely love the idea of replacing displays with a headset.
If the fidelity can match looking at a laptop screen, and the form-factor is comfortable enough for long sessions, I think this could be a very compelling product.
I could absolutely see it being the sort of thing that eventually replaces a laptop. It would not surprise me at all if apple positions their VR headset as a full computing device that you carry along with a magic keyboard, trackpad, and optionally a game controller.
I imagine a future where a sleek pair of AR glasses could subtitle people's speech around you in real time. It might be a useful tool for deaf or hearing impaired people. The AI already exists, it's a matter of adapting it to a new setting. If the glasses contained multiple external microphones, it could also triangulate the direction of different people speaking simultaneously and display their speech next to their bodies.
I really don’t know if apple will succeed with this new market sector, however if anyone can do it I think it will be apple.
The use case I would LOVE to see would be primarily pass through with stuff added on. Replacing screens with a true retina class display would be incredible.
I don’t know if the technology is at the point fov resolution and refresh rate wise where this is possible in un tethered device
i think the more vr headset is cool, but given the rumored prices it seems so more like a public dev kit. so that way they can get some more IRL data, and hopefully release a cheaper AR one in a few years.
but on the whole in exited for the almost transhumist world ar might bring.
Love the Tollan Stargate SG-1 set at the start haha. But honestly love the Mac Address Videos
I'm not gonna lie, I was intrigued at the idea of using AR glasses as a monitor(s). I both video edit and animate, so it sounds cool. It would free up desk space, and also reduce heat during the hot months. Though I'm unsure how animation would work, so I suppose I would still need a tablet (currently an iPad) to draw frames.
If I can keep the floating monitors stationary so I can still turn my head this way and that to view screens, that would be awesome!
I've been thinking a lot about what Apple may have to offer to this, because AR glasses everyone can use seems to be the goal and there are many obvious uses for that but to get there they will bring first their VR/MR headset that will be mostly focused to developers but they have to have some killer app or killer feature to get people pump about the experience from the beginning and that's the tough one. A virtual desk where you can use an actual mouse and keyboard it's the first one and Meta has it too but there's the issue of actually being able to read text on a virtual screen, that requires great resolution and great lenses... And probably some software "trickery" but we need more and I'm not sure what could that be and I'm not sure Apple knows either and that's the worrisome part. I think if these headsets were a lot more affordable, then the social aspect could be explored a lot more, but as it is now, it's anyone's guess what will happen. VR it's a niche hobby Apple wants to make it more mainstream in order to get into AR glasses in the future, we'll see what they come up with
The right use case is a lightweight pair of glasses that enables you to have that massive monitor(s) that you cannot fit on your desk/in your apartment.
for me, even just the ability to leave my cell phone in my pocket while I'm walking down the street and have my own floating screen(s) would make it worth it (at the right price point)
There would, though, have to be some way for me to control it without waving my hands in the air while out in public. A control (even the phone itself) in my pocket would work, or even a glove that would interpret hand gestures but I would still have to be able to leave my hand hanging at my side.
More complex use cases could be added on top of that, but a floating screen is for my existing smart phone uses would be the basics for me
I‘m still waiting to be able to watch a sports game at home and feel like I‘m in a stadium. How I imagine it, all they have to do is place several 360° cameras around the stadium and they could sell you front row seats.
I think there is no point for apple to release an VR Headsead, since it doesnt fit their lineup. But slim and simple AR glasses would be the killer device, everyone wants to have. Just imagine walking down the street with this glasses. They will show you the route in real life, upcoming messages, the current music. If you think of replacing screens on the desk you not only could remove and 1:1 replace them, you could create way greater UI experiences, that use all the space in your field of view.
Replacing screens would be neat, but it has to be powerful enough. An all in one system in VR is appealing, and if the controls can work for a keyboard somehow, even better. I think what people want is more Holodeck-y, but this is an in between step
This product isn't what a lot of people think it is. This is like the some dev kit for apple silicon. This is meant for developers to help develop for apple glass. Obviously some people are going to want to buy it, which is why Apple's making this public. It's going to be a mix between the transition kit and airpods max, not meant for everybody, but there's still some people who want to buy it.
Really enjoyed this video. Documentary style that questions. In fact the whole channel is good. Great work Mac Address. Although timing could have been a month ago as in a few days, a lot of these questions will be answered at WWDC and the video largely irrelevant. 👍
They should’ve tie it with the smartphone and make it thin, light and natural-looking, something like traditional glasses. We don’t need a chipset and battery pack and such. Keep it as a immersive display for your phone and also a input device. Have some ultra wide band blaster and receiver, make it a tool for something like the measure app or AR identifier. Have a very good projector so it would not look weird. The experience/improvement is pushing with MR/VR/AR isn’t to replace smartphone and target it as a iPad replacement would be better than iPhone replacement
Love that you filmed the intro to the video at Simon Fraser University campus at Burnaby! Also I have zero expectations about VR headset
I was a Glass "explorer". The only real day-to-day uses that didn't suck were a really nice HUD for GPS directions and shockingly unobtrusive notifications. That's literally it.
Which is why it never went to a full commercial release.
All I would really want from VR/AR is glass that looks less stupid.
Afaik they aren't doing a vr headset, they're doing a mixed reality headset that uses vr goggles with passthrough cameras, that also happens to be able to do vr.
I think there's a number of advantages to this approach, mainly that holograms will look solid and will work even in bright daylight.
Microsoft seems to have a lot of trouble scaling up the hololens displays. I've read some engineer saying that their particular screen projecting solution is a technological dead end.
There's also a lot of disadvantages, largely that its hard on your eyes and the lag from the camera feed can make you dizzy, plus it reduces your field of vision so is a real hazard.
@@alexatkin I think lag is #1 thing they'll try to address, it'll probably run in 120 fps. As for eye strain, I think it's probably not better on glass projectors. Peripheral vision is a serious limitation, though I imagine high FOV sets will be possible.
Neither solution is good enough for everyday outdoors use right now, but I imagine when it happens lens projection glasses will be less awkward than full on goggles.
My biggest issue with that is Apple snubbed Vulkan graphics for their own Metal graphics api and it just won't work well at all just like gaming on a Mac just doesn't work.
6:17 **finger on the monkeys' paw curls** turns out, you can _only_ use it while its charging!
By far the best use-case, for me at least, would be a replacement for your typical desk setup. But for that to work it would need to fully support Mac OS. I have no interest in a system that only works with the iPad and iPhone.
do you mean it as an accessory to mac OS so you can connect it to a mac device and use it as a screen or just running mac OS on the headset itself?
Even if MacOS, iPhone, and iPad apps all work in a more unified ecosystem, meaning MacOS apps just "work" on iPad and iPhone and vice verse?
Agreed, if it can replace a MacBook Pro in utility then $3000 is cheap for something with “infinite” virtual displays that can be anywhere at any size I need!
@@rinhirasawa9971 I bet that you will be able to run Mac applications within the headset itself.
@Paul Tuff. This is never going to be the case. The thing is that iOS/iPadOS are locked down so much that they just aren't useful in a lot of professional settings. I can't run virtual machines, install package managers, run local servers, or have code compilers run in the background. Then there's the plethora of productivity tools I use on the Mac that don't exist on the iPad...things like clipboard managers or automation software like Dropzone, or having all of my Google Drive files locally.
The "replacing screens" thing has always been the draw for me. I have Obsidian, 2 web browsers, system resource monitor, and a terminal multiplexer open at all times. Throw in Slack/Discord/Zoom/etc. and 3 monitors still isn't enough and I have to switch between workspaces.
It wont really fix that problem though, as there is only so much space you can cram information into without having to still switch workspaces or have an environment you walk around to see everything, not really more efficient than switching workspaces though definitely more organic.
I have several monitors myself though all connected to different devices, and I still find it awkward - much easier to use the main monitor that is right in front of me. Really all I need is a faster way to switch inputs, which is basically what you are already doing switching workspaces. I feel that AR/VR might feel more natural to do this stuff, but will actually be less efficient.
@@alexatkin You're absolutely right on some level.
I would say I'm mostly thinking that AR/VR will allow for wholly new ways of thinking about "screens, windows, workspaces" from a software standpoint. We'd need something really innovative, and I think AR/VR will allow for it (mostly by allowing people to try new crazy ideas), but you are right in that it won't bring that innovation in and of itself.
Biggest issue right now is that people have a lot of expectations when they work in a traditional PC environment. That sorta thing stops both developers thinking about new ideas, and users trying out new ideas.
Display replacement in VR/AR is widely difficult. It requires incredibly high resolutions. To float a single, sharp 4k display in VR requires the VR output to be something like 16k. Foveated rendering potentially reduces the load, but that also deviates from how displays work today in a way that could really undermine utility.
I don't think we're close to that future.
Now that Vision Pro is out, I'd love to see a follow-up looking at what you got right and wrong in this video. Getting rid of screens is certainly a possibility, and they're certainly looking beyond gaming.
Not looking beyond gaming but looking away from it. Apparently it's not designed to play games on, didn't have controllers and can't connect to Steam.
@@ViridianFlow Fair enough. Gaming is possible on the Vision Pro but not much of a focus at launch. There will be dedicated VR games for sure, but likely everything will have to go through the App Store. No Steam until Apple is forced to allow third party app stores, which may indeed happen. But Apple did demo using it with a controller to play iPad games, and the developer videos show a Unity game (What The Golf, a superb game) translated into VR and looking great.
There's a translation layer for Vulkan to metal, really useful
I'm REALLY curious what you think now that it's been announced.
Wow that’s exactly the only use I have for the very headset. I’m used to work with row monitors but going to the library is loosing one I would use a headset to avoid carrying a secondary monitor in addition to my MacBook
Damn, announcement went better than this video predicted
It would be interesting for production design on film sets. You could render out a proposed set design and walk through it, making sure it's practical and can make any small changes. If Apple debuts it at WWDC this year, they understand that it's a technology that's currently only appealing to developers.
I love my Nreal Airs, and a continuation and improvement upon those is what I would want. The only thing I really need full-fledged VR for is Beat Saber, other than that AR is much more interesting to me. Though one appeal that a bigger MR headset would have, would be the ability to use a bunch of virtual screens like with the Nreal Air, but without having to connect to a PC. The PC is in the glasses and all you would need is a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. But for that, Apple would have to allow Mac OS to run right on the glasses and considering that they still refuse to do that with the iPad, I doubt they’ll do it for the glasses. For true productivity, a gimped OS just won’t do it. We would need the ability to run a full desktop OS on it, with full desktop applications. That’s the reason why something like Samsung Dex just isn’t for me. The idea is cool, but at the end of the day you are still forced to use terrible mobile browsers and apps
Replacing displays is key for the growth of VR and AR because it has mass appeal. That's why specs matter. The resolution has to be higher than anything right now, the FOV has to be bigger so people don't feel cramped, the camera quality has to be top notch so people don't have to take it off all the time and it has to be as light as possible to improve comfort. Once it can do all that, more people will buy it and development will ramp up.
definately would use AR as a monitor replacement, i got a quest 2 but the resolution on that thing is... yea. however i would need the headset to have a pretty high refresh rate, resolution and seemless connectivity with PC/mac for me to be truely sold.
Hat I’m waiting for is the assistive technology applications. Huge potential.
I've been into the VR space going back to 2012 and I am absolutely interested to see how Apple's hardware ethos and software design can be applied to an MR headset. I think some of the criticisms from the professor were a bit unfair though. VR has absolutely streamline and gotten more capable in the last decade alone. Comparing the modern Quest, Index or Bigscreen Beyond to the original clunky DK1 from 2012 is like night and day, to say nothing of the true dinosaurs like the VR1, VIEW Project and Sword of Damocles from the 20th century.
I also think people need to clamp down on their expectations for augmented reality. Optical AR (ie AR glasses) is an incredibly difficult problem that we might not see for another 5-10 years. There's a reason why companies, including Meta and Apple, have put their glasses projects on ice in favor of easier to solve passthrough AR headsets like the Quest Pro and upcoming Apple headset. The Nreal glasses are rudimentary smartglasses at best.
I like that argument of taking a step back from the VR worlds and games. Do something along the lines of a displays, but do it really well. Maybe with some rendered objects on surfaces to help. And then grow from that experience into more useful and mature applications
One of my favorite things with Current VR is probably social VR. I don't use it quite as much as I would like to. But I moved cross country and love when I can get a friend on to watch movies in say Bigscreen VR.
I would love to work in VR if the resolution and comfort got to the right level. The Problem I have is that my company won't even let me install the software for my mouse....I don't think they are gonna let me use a VR headset...unless they buy them, and I don't see that happening.
It’s weird I was like oh hey it’s luke! at 3:50 then I was like oh yeah this an lmg channel. Kind of shows how unique the different channels are
Dude’s never heard of Bigscreen and/or Amazon Prime Video Watch Party, etc. Watching movies with one or more friends that may be halfway around the world, while you’re sitting next to them in a virtual theater setting with the equivalent of a 110-foot screen is bada$$. Turning to talk to them, with spatial audio, and having to move your head to see different parts of the screen (the old left, right, left, right close-up dialogue scene routine) seems perfectly natural, and rewatching _Back to the Future_ with a friend who’d never seen it in a theater is a completely unique experience, in the 2020s.
There’s _literally_ (not hyperbolically) *NO better way to watch a feature film,* today-no matter when it first played on the silver screen-whether you wanna see it in an olden-time or modern-day VR theater where you can bring your own drinks, food, and not have to get completely ripped _before_ going inside (so it lasts you for 2-3 hours... )-only to be terrified of buying popcorn and a Coke (... not just because of the price... )-but rather, to keep on ripping throughout the flick, is _THE best way to watch a movie,_ this decade, period.*
* Seriously, period.
If Apple can turn these into a pair of shades, I'm on board. Probably gonna need a few more years of tech advancements.
“a few”
My last job has me working on VR simulators with motion platforms for total immersion. While it was fun to work on, I never used the VR headset when I wasn't working. It's probably because I'm not a gamer, but I think that is the fundamental problem. I actually had a lot more interest in playing around with a Hololens, I think it is a much better value proposition for non-gaming applications.
I'm interested in seeing what Apple does with it, but I'm not holding my breathe for a breakthrough. Inevitably there will be excitement after the announcement, but I wonder what the feeling will be a few months out?
Oh, can i have the audio notes at 5:11. that drop down was niceee
I have the Nreal Air. It’s very early technology, but I can see as this tech develops, it could mean the end of big screens. I use mine right now for gaming and media consumption, but should the technology get better on stabilizing the screen floating in space, I could see it becoming my main “monitor”.
I am quite looking forward to AR glasses as to extend my display.
As developers, we never have enough screen space for all what we want to see at "almost" the same time.
Nreal (*now "Xreal") Airs are nice as a secondary display with an M1/M2 Macbook or a Samsung Dex-enabled phone, or, with an HDMI adapter, with a game console. The Xreal team's Nebula app and any sense of the glasses being truly "AR" is very undercooked.
Just reveiled. It definitely more AR than a VR kinda of thing but man, it promises some revolutionary things for both technologies.
It's like they took AR and just made it actually real. Like how you'd image the final version of AR to be. Like the first touch screen iPhones. Like, welcome to the future.
All of that stuff has been floating around in different AR and hibrid devices for at least the last 5 years. And you think Apple re-invented the wheel here. Good lord, now I know why this piece of hardware is gonna sell, people are gullible
@@hodisfut it’s more like it’s already be out there but never all together, in one device, executed to this level, and targeted at the general consumer or professional user. Of course, eye tracking, lidar AR, hand tracking etc has been around. But always in a bits a piece.
I did not think of the headset in respect to gaming or movies at all (as fascinating as this may be), but once I saw a graphic of a user wearing the headset, multiple virtual screens floating in front of her immediately sold be. That is what I primarily would use it for. Including photo/ video editing... A replacement for the classic monitor (that is never large/ bright enough).
The litmus test of AR usability for me is really simple. As someone with poor but correctable vision I need to be able to replace my glasses with a system that is just as reliable as they are but with improved functionality. Unless and until I can use them legally while driving they cannot replace my glasses in mainstream society. And I don’t mean in a assisted driving demonstration but incorporating the vehicle displays as configurable options while manually driving. It could also be used for other vehicles like boats, planes, or heavy equipment. Having the option to see through a vehicle using sensors could be a useful tool with many applications, but only if it is legally permitted.
As someone who fairy regularly play music on stage, sheet music or chord charts would be awesome to have in a pair of AR-glasses. You can see your audience/congregation and still see what to play 😊
Getting closer to getting rid of the slab xd
Ar glasses + smartwatch + earbuds basically ushers in the 5th generation of computing: invisible computers!
Tho i suppose we might need a new type of input method for it to be truly invisible..........smartgloves, anyone?
The Lynx R1 still gives you peripheral vision, plus the MR doesn't actually look like a bizarre hell scape like a lot of passthrough VR right now. I'm sure the MR will actually be nice on the Apple headset too.
Not a fan of some of these interviews.
My biggest issue with that is Apple snubbed Vulkan graphics for their own Metal graphics api and it just won't work well at all just like gaming on a Mac just doesn't work.