Under-Forking an Enduro Hardtail: Banshee Paradox v3 Goes Full XC - Ride Impressions
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2020
- In this episode I take the Banshee Paradox V3 out in XC mode. We have a 120mm stepcast 34 fork, with enve m525 wheels and super light tires. Will it ride better or worse than when it had 150mm travel? Today we find out. Did you learn something valuable? If so, show your appreciation and support this channel by becoming a Patron today: / hardtailparty
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I absolutely love this. You’ve hit on the reason I ride and usually ride alone-that pure moment of losing yourself in nature on windy, flowing single track. For me, it’s never been about crushing the fastest Strava time or sending the biggest jumps although that is fun now and then. In a world of long travel full suspension mtbs that are too much bike for 95% of the trails we ride, it is refreshing to see your enthusiasm for the essence of a great mtb ride.
Man you summed up all my feelings about riding a hardtail on the right trails. Most people are overbiked and unrealistic about how gnarly they are as riders!
It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Man I was talking to my brother about this. People pay 5000 for a full sus when their riding skills and where they ride is already over kill with a solid hardtail
@@hardtailparty Ha ha...so true!!! I have an entry level HT. I ride in all conditions.
@@residentevil36936936 tell me about, ive seen freaking downhill electric bikes in my area where hardly it counts as trail.
I only have a full suspension bike and I know I'm way over bike for the bulk of the trails I like to ride. I think a lot of us get sucked into thinking we need a big burly fsp bike when we really don't need all that travel.
I've ridden a lot of lightweight xc bikes, but this experiment goes so much beyond weight. I've never ridden a light xc bike with a sturdy, compliant frame that had a 66* head angle and a modern 450mm reach. This geometry, combined with the light wheels and fork is such a special match.
A lot of people over-fork XC bkes to achieve this ride feel, but it never quite works right. Over-forking an xc bike almost always makes it worse at everything. In this video, I tried to approach it from the other end of the spectrum: What if we steepened a slack, aggressive bike and made it a little racier? I think we found a winning combo here!
This is the new high-water mark I'll be using to compare all other hardtails. This is the bike to beat.
I've come to the personal conclusion that hardtails , geometry aside, feel most balanced with around 100-120mm travel. Every time I put more travel than that on a hardtail, I end up putting too much air pressure in it. I could never get the timing right for bunny hops or get along with the geometry change as a long travel fork cycles through its travel on a hardtail.
Very interesting. I think I'm starting to settle on 120-140mm for my trails here.
Unless I missed it, it would've been a great comparison if you would've done this with the aluminum Chameleon too.
@@ThunderStruckMTB The principles should apply to all frames. Unfortunately I have a limited amount of time and resources and I can't conduct all experiments with all models of frames.
@@hardtailparty Totally understood, I was just thinking out loud as an aluminum Lizard rider. Mine is a 29er with light parts and a 130mm Pike Ultimate. I have been kicking around the idea of a 120 fork (the way SC sold it originally) but will probably just stay as is.
That’s a much better set up for my area in Illinois. No need for a full blown enduro setup. Nice review!
Same here I’m in Illinois as well!
You just built the Midwest everything bike by accident... When you trails are punchy short climbs, punchy short descents and twisting around ever gopher hole, this setup is what you want/need.
Yup. A lot of bike influence from places with big trails and that skews the industry and what makes a good bike. I love to watch all sorts of MTB content and the more exciting stuff is the fast, downhill stuff vs our trails in the midwest. I think that influences what people buy even if it isn't the best for their local trails. I've been guilty of that to a certain degree as well by having my Go To front tire being a DHF. I put some Continental Crosskings I had that came with a wheel set on one of my bikes and had a blast on one of our very XC based trails. The light tires were so much nicer to peddle yet get sketchy on that trail due to sand. Made for a more exciting ride. I'm lucky enough to have a multi bike stable so I can have a "small" bike for mellow trails and a burlier bike for the rougher.
That's awesome! I can't wait to see you make more videos of this bike. Keep it up man.
Just finished the whole Video and man I can tell how Real your joy is Love that Feeling!
Starting off Sunday the right way with another HardTail Party review!! Great video Steve, you nailed it bringing it back old school enjoying the flow, climbs and the great outdoors!! Can’t wait to see what your take on the Middlechild is set up like that!!! 👍👍👍🤘🤘🤘
Thanks for the video!! I love your comments about the joy of just taking a ride. And the right type of bike for that type of riding. What you said applies to many regions of the country that are not as steep and gnarly. But you can still have tons of fun.
Love the experiment and sharing your feelings on the joys of an awesome trail ride! Did an 20 mi HT ride in the Newport Coast highlands w/ an old HT Buddy from the Austin, Tx rigid days. Keep up the good work!
New subscriber here. I have been going through all of your videos and this has to be my favorite!!!
I was looking for more of an XC/bikepacking bike, but this has opened up my eyes! Now I'm between this and one of the Cotic Max bikes you reviewed.
Keep up the great work. Your channel is so much fun!
Your description of how much fun it is to ride a less rowdy bike on a flowing singletrack trail is exactly what I felt the first time I rode a cyclocross bike. It's so efficient, precise and fast-feeling both up and downhill that it changes a mild trail into a ripping fun time.
Ha, just done watching you setup this bike on the previous video and boom! New video up, pretty cool!
Such a great review, and yes more people need to just ride more hardtails. Myself I have a Ghost Kato 7 and did some upgrades and I love that bike, I live in SoCal but my brother lives in Silver City NM and the trails in Silver cater to what my hardtail loves to ride. I had to have an excuse to leave my hardtail with him, so when I come out to visit I have a great bike to ride the great trails there! Channel is fire!! Keep up the amazing content!!
Oh man I feel like you were channeling my riding style in a bike with this build. So good bud that thing looks so much fun!
Bravo Bravissimo - wonderful video perfect series with your Banshee Paradox V3 - respect and compliments
Wow! This just answered all my questions about turning my trail/enduro hard tail bike frame into XC-bike packing Bike. Thanks so much for this video Sir.. :)
Nice idea/video Steve. I’m currently on a 2019 Stumpjumper, but sometimes miss mile mashing on my Trek X Caliber I had sold. There’s something special about being outside and just taking it all in, keeping the rubber in the dirt.
Steve, great review on the Banshee Paradox V3 in XC mode. If you ever decide to build bikes,
you just described and built axactly what I am looking for. You have the same type of trail and
just the right stuff. I am so excited, I have to find a bike built about the same. Thanks, I've learned
a lot from you. Party real hard in the mountains.
Just ordered mine today! Thanks Steve, I have always loved mountain biking but you have helped me get re-excited about it, in a new way. Looking forward to this.
Congrats! The paradox I'd an incredible bike.
I’ve been looking forward to this video for a while now and I was not disappointed. The information you provided was not only great, but was further reinforced by your enthusiasm and smile. Excellent content as usual Steve.
Thanks Daniel!
I have a Paradox V3 with a Pike 150 mm and Honcho Teravail 2.60. I live in the PNW. It handles everything.
Steve, thank you for the needed reminder about the joy of trail riding. Life is more than CZcams and they're two different things.
This was the video that did it for me. Can't wait to try out my new XC Paradox!
Just ran across your channel recently while reviving my 2011 Banshee Paradox V1 that has sat idle for years but is due for some love and new components. It was a great AM hardtail in its day and came with a 120mm Reba and had a 68ish head angle, which was a bit radical for the time.
Awesome bike, I've built my own this previous weekend and can't wait to put it on the mountain!
I agree with you about just going out for a good trail ride, for me it's all about just being outside and enjoying the great views I got out here. I use to do strava and found that all it did was ruin my rides since I was looking for faster times instead of just having fun rides.
I think it’s a valid concept, and can be dialed a bit more with tire choice.
Was considering subscribing to this channel, & this video pushed me over the edge! Everywhere else (almost), people are laser-focused on the latest trail or enduro 'fully', so the hardtail emphasis here makes this channel near unique! Plus you ride in some of the SICKEST terrain this Londoner has ever seen!!
Thanks for subscribing
amen on the trail ride stuff. I live in the midwest and see kids out on the trail overbuilt dual suspension bikes on trails people can clear with cx bikes.
Wow! Looks like great fun! It's nice to have the right bike for the trail. My Soul is basically XC with 2.6" tubeless. Maxxis Rekons 2.5" actual width. Its fast enough, and takes the rooty, rocky sections with ease. I love fast flowing trails. Just sweet. I want to ride that trail on my bike!
Steve, thank you so much for this setup review!! This is helping me make so many decisions on my next build! Seems like the ultimate trail bike for my rocky/rooty New England 20-30 mile single track rides with plenty of climbs!!
So glad it helps. I was extremely surprised by the results.
there was once a hardtail banshee but with smaller wheels and i was in love with. it was call viento
I'm really glad I came across your channel. I have always had a thing for hardtails and I've never owned one. I only ride gravel and light Chucky stuff but I've wanted to get onto a hardtail for the past few years. Everything is pointing riders towards full sus riding downhill and Enduro. That stuff seems cool I'm just not interested not to mention I'm just not that crazy. I just want to ride trails and enjoy time in the saddle. Thanks for the content.
Just love your channel. You capture the essence of what getting out on a bike, any bike, is all about. Your delivery and focus is very relatable and informative. There are too many channels around that are just showy and pretentious. Big thumbs up to your many more hard tail reviews and experimentations. I ride an under forked (rigid), and over tired fat bike. Just love my Pivot Les Fat. It’s like being a little kid again.
Thank you for the kind words. Fat bikes are so much fun. Bikes are the best. No ego required, just fun times on bikes.
Happy that you have found your perfect bike!
I'm on a all-out xc bike myself riding a Trek Procaliber for my main rig now, and what I love is with it's not-so-big capabilities almost every trail is difficult enough to keep the adrenaline pumping. And If i want, covering 60-80 miles on the dirt or tarmac is perfectly doable.
I was looking at trail hardtails for a while, and, based on your reviews, eventually made a decision to get a Banshee frame. Before making that decision I had to think about my riding style a bit more, the trails I ride and my personal preferences.
I built the bike up myself and have done about 250km on technical trails here on the Northern Beaches in Sydney.
The bike rides fantastic and I am very happy with the performance on these technical trails which I only approached on my fully before. I feel very confident on the Banshee, a huge difference to my XC hardtail.
The whole setup feels compliant and almost plush, at least compared to my carbon xc hardtail. 😀 Thank you for your great reviews and general advice. Without your videos I would not have been able to pick the right bike for me.
Some fotos attached. I am loving the raw finish. Also got some frame protection fitted to preserve the beautiful looks of the bike.
Congrats, the banshee paradox is a fantastic bike, one of my all-time favorites.
I have been of a mind for quite some time that the vast majority of riders are overbiked. I rode an ultralight XC hard tail ($8k Spec Epic) on my local trails recently as my usual ride (24lb Yeti ASR, Fox SC 34, rekon race/aspen) was in the shop. Allatoona Park is only 2 miles from me and features 30-plus miles of everything from wood features to rock tech, jump lines for multiple abilities, sweet natural rocky, rooty Singletrack and flowy bermed runs. Fast guys run XCish or downcountry fs rigs but so many riders are on 150mm enduro or 130-140 trail bikes. I had so much fun on that loaner hardtail that I want to pick one up as a second bike. Yea, the rough stuff was not as much fun but the overall experience was - as you kept saying in your video - so exciting! I think I will always enjoy being underbiked and really experiencing the trail as opposed to steamrolling it. Love what you do, Steve!
I Truly enjoyed this Project Just siting here and watching it thanks for Taking us with you man. and I 100% agree with you Message about not forgetting about simple mountain biking. .. also My girl friend Just Got a Ragley mmmbop Frame and she is about to build up Just got called back to work last week so she is saving for a good but affordable wheel set 1st..
what a great concept, thank you
I am so grateful for your videos. You've done basically every experiment I was curious about. I have a meta and in all honesty, a 160mm fork is wayyy too much fork for what I ride. I was considering a 140mm fork instead and based on this video, I think that's what I will do. Might even look at 130/120mm. Though I haven't been able to figure out how that fork change would affect the geo.
Welcome back to lighter XC hardtails...thats why im in the 120mm lite hardtail team...
I've ridden a lot of light xc hardtails, but none of them had this geometry. Usually light bikes feel sketchy and hard to control at speed on rough stuff. This felt exactly the opposite.
Man, I 100% agree with just enjoying the trail for the ride. I admittedly ride WAY more bike than I need for half of my riding (I'm on a Devinci Spartan w/ 180mm up front) but I absolutely love heading over to the local city park trail and just cruising. Yeah, I'm 46 and yeah, I've got a lung disorder so climbs rock my world and I'd love to build a nice agile hardtail and drop 12lbs of bike weight, especially being an old bmx'er, but we do take regular road trips to the various bike parks in the country so if I'm gonna have one bike, I'm on the one I need. However I often miss my old Gary Fisher carbon HT.
Love this video, your conclusions and recommendations! West Sedona is our favorite area to ride on our annual trip. My son and I ride 4" travel XC bikes with 120mm forks and 2.2 to 2.4" tires. We like more flow than chunk. My HT is a Santa Cruz Highball 2c with a 120 mm Fox 32. Head tube angle is 1 degree steeper than my full squish at 69*. From one of your earlier videos, I'm thinking about changing up the headset to slacken a bit. I'm running some alloy rims and like the added compliance. I run Nobby Nics which work well up here in N.E. CO and will be anxious to see what tires you optimize for your set up for the Sedona XC trails.
This is what mtn biking is for me. Nice bike set up.
Cool, nicely done.
Just got word that my banshee paradox frame is in!! Going to pick it up tomorrow!!
Rock on! That was faster than I thought it'd be. Congrats on a killer frame.
Great review Steve! Just found your channel and can't get enough! I'm looking for a new hardtail and wanted your thoughts on doing something like The Crusher 225 on this bike, as in, do you think it would be comfortable for a 30+ hour endurance ride? Keep up the great work, your ability to put thoughts into words and be so descriptive is phenomenal, I really enjoy watching your videos!
Thanks for the kind words. I help consult people to find the perfect bike via patreon. I'm happy to look into your needs and discuss options with you if that's a route you'd like to take. This is a very comfortable bike.
Now that's what i call true trail bike.
Light, nimble, snappy. My trail bike is at 66.5 head angle on a full squish.
Light rims and tires, not super long.
And yes im full squish, but when you have two full hip replacements you have try to save your hips from jolts and damage.
I think what you just made is my next build.
What's your bike? I also enjoy XC-ish geo on FS bikes. Yes it's harder on techy and gnarly stuff but when the things get rolling, holy moly I'm fast and jumpy everywhere. That's where the fun lies.
you sir, are making me want a Banshee Paradox v3 even more. Only problem is the nearest dealer is 150 miles away
You said it perfectly, we don't need to be airborne/ wheels off the ground on everything.
More Mtn. Bikers need to experience just going for a ride!
I've been looking at newer hardtail frames for this very reason, adding my 120mm fork and cruising.
This is how I felt about the Canfield EPO. Wish they'd bring that frame back...one frame I regret selling!
Loving the enthusiasm. Sounds like it might be time for you to do a video on XC/fast tires as you try to find the special sauce to ride like that and be confident that the bike will remain under you.
I need to find a tire company who wants to partner with me and loan me some tires for a whole lot of experimenting.
Thanks for the review Mr. Party! I've been wondering what it would be like to under-fork a capable bike with light wheels would be like.
Steve, would you recommend this as a beginner hardtail? Bought a vitus nucleus VR about 3 months ago. Been riding it in Arizona and it's been fun. Watching you be excited about the climbs and how quickly you pick up speed has me extremely hyped for this frame which happens to be available right now.
So well said 👏👏👏👏
Great video! Based on this test run what tires do you plan to use now that you may keep this bike build? I am doing a build from scratch on a 2018 Chisel. Since I am a bit older and heavier now I am making slight modifications going the other direction from original such as a 120mm fork from 100mm, and slightly bigger 30mm ID wheels and perhaps 2.3-2.5” XC/trail tires… The idea at my age is to enjoy biking the many scenic trails! Tire Suggestions?
great clip 👍
I love this, and have been playing with ideas like this myself. TBH, I think FS bikes are also getting to the point where they’re so capable all we really need is 120/130 for 90% of that we ride.
Totally agree. Since it requires more skill to ride a smaller travel bike fast, I think we're going to keep seeing people on bigger bikes to start out on.
That's where bikes like the Ibis Ripley comes in (any version of it).
Enjoyed your video as much as you enjoyed the ride ! Can we find this kind of bike off the shelf or is it only custom builds ? I'm looking for a lightweight modern hardtail with 120mm of travel, but all "agressive hardtail" bikes seem to have a lot of travel around here ! thanks
Dirt jumps seem to be the trail feature I see added more and more. One of my favorite DH trails got an update and they added big doubles and made it more of a roller trail for me.
Yep. It's driving me crazy! Tech is gone and replaced by gaps.
@@foofy4494 that’s down to the full sus rigs taking the fun out of parts of trails that would feel techy on a hardtail.
Trail riding and exploring is the best, I'm sure lots people have more bike than they need, these grade 3 riders who ride around on 160mm enduro bikes and wont go near a grade 4 let alone grade 5. Good to have fast rolling bike that makes your whole ride more fun than more travel for that small rough section.
Take it on the burley stuff!!!!! This is inspiring!!!
I really need to. I'm curious how it'll do.
Man u are really teasing with this Paradox... really considering in getting one :)
Not a tease, I just love this bike. It's my favorite hardtail at the moment. There are other great bikes out there too, but I really love this one.
....I doo agree on XC bike getting more agressive, I owned a onone and sold it 3 years ago, it was my do it all hardtail, used it for just about anything... But now I am looking for a descender, cuz here either u go up or down most of the time, so was thinking about Pipedream Moxie or Chromag Root down, but man this Paradox is sweet 🙃
Another great vid! You often see xc bikes getting the trail treatment, but not the other way around. Seems like the angles work better that way. I’m curious about what the bb height ended being. You didn’t seem to have any problems with pedal strikes.
I agree. Over-forking an xc bike and slackening it out just feels off. I definitely think it's better to approach it from the aggressive side and make it lighter and snappier. It rides with so much more confidence than the xc bikes with long forks. Zero pedal strikes for me. This frame lends itself really well to this treatment. There are a lot of aggressive bikes that wouldn't quite work this way, but I'm glad I stumbled upon this combo. We'll be seeing more of this banshee set up this way on the channel.
This is awesome. I'm in Illinois and this seems like a great setup. I'm on a ragley Marley and feel that it's perfect for this kind of riding with a few(very few and small)small jumps thrown in. I am riding an aggressive set of tires(maxxis ,dhf and dhr2 exo+ 3c in a 2.6) on it though. If you're into this setup you should definitely give a Marley a test ride.
I'll see if I can get ahold of one. I'll have a review of the mmmbop soon.
@@hardtailparty awesome! Super excited to see your opinion of the mmmbop
Running a 150 travel 27.5x2.6 setup on my enduro hardtail right now. But I’m thinking about getting lighter wheels and tires and maybe underforking it aswell for a winter setup, when I’m riding mellower trails anyhow. Just can’t get my head around weather I should stick with the more playful 27.5 wheel size or go for 29 full xc mode to keep more momentum on flowier trails. Any thoughts on this?
Have you tried an NS Eccentric? Very similar geometry to the Paradox but the frames aren’t very expensive. I love mine, just wish I put better wheels on. Enjoyed this video!
I’m 6’3” with a 33-34” inseam. What size of frame and fork do you recommend?🤔 Think on getting a frame set the winter to build up! Thanks for any info.
Awesome breakdown. I recently picked up a Banshee Para V3 and have been debating which type of wheelset to go with. This gives me a good idea of both. Thanks. Also, I noticed the dog running with you early on and throught to myself, man he's going to leave it behind. But he/she shows up again later on the trail. Thats impressive! Question: Any chance of getting ahold of a HT Party sticker like the one on your handlebars? didn't see them on the swag page. :)
I sell stickers via patreon.
Awesome to see your dog out there😻 How many miles can Fender run with you on these trails? I have a high drive German Shepherd who I’d love to take with, but I’m always concerned about excessive exhaustion and overheating. Seeing this video is making me more confident about the idea.
Hi max is 23 miles to date. The heat makes it harder for both of us to go that long. He's 10 now, so we stick to loops closer to 5-6 miles. It took a LOT of training to get him to be obedient on the trail. The last thing you want is a confrontation with another trail user or their dog. Fender's a great trail buddy.
hardtail party Good to know, thanks! 23 is impressive 😯 Time to start training him. He will love it 👌
I like catching a small sliver of air now and then, but smooth flowing trail runs are the best. That said I rode some more technical terrain the other day, and enjoyed that as well (Roots, and Rocks), the Soul ate it up. That bike has turned out to be more than I hoped! The Banshee sounds killer, it sounds like that bike has exceeded your expectations also. Love it when that happens. 🚲
You have a cotic soul? I used to have one of those. Cool bikes.
@@hardtailparty Yep, its me again. I have finally been able to ride it on real trails up here in AK. It took a few miles to adjust myself to the new geometry, its getting to be second nature now. The steel is real applies to this bike. It feels about as compliant as my other steel frames, and the 2.5" 2.6 tires tubeless with 24 psi rear, 21 psi front really adds to this, plus the traction! The frame felt fine with tubes and higher pressures, but wow, tubeless rocks. I love how the soul rides, just tore up a trail I usually never ride due to difficulty. The only criticism I have on the Soul, is the low stack height. I worked around this the usual way with a riser bar and steering tube spacers 30mm high. By the way, the new Fox/Marzocchi Z2 is a very nice fork for the money, it costs about the same as the RS 35, new anyway. Maybe some videos on fork-offs... fork comparisons for Hardtails of course? Thanks again for the videos. I enjoy the inspiration to get out and ride!
I may up the front tire to 22 psi after some hard root strikes, it felt a tad soft. Still it cornered well, no squirminess.
If I had tons of cash I would probably build up a Banshee as the 29er I don't have. That bike looks like it kills! I would also have to get rid of some old bikes ... and maybe get kicked out of the house hahha. My wife likes to ride her bicycle, but she is not into bikes as much as I am. She helps me stay balanced, for which I am deeply appreciative.
@@hardtailparty I looked up the trail I rode on my Soul, turns out it was Black Diamond... had no idea at the time, but the Cotic rode it well.
I love this frame with this configuration. Actually, I'm riding a Trek Stache and it is a very funny bike, but for a long route, 100kms or more, is a lazy bike, you have to push hard and roll the 29+er wheels you have to waste too much energy. I'm looking for an all day bike, lighter than starch, faster in the climbs and capable in the trails, we don't have very technical trails but sometimes rocky terrain. someday I want a slacker head angle in the Satche. Can bé these bike and option?
Hi Steve, how high is your BB in this set up (120mm fork with 29" wheels)?? Thanks
Steve, you already had me sold on the Paradox after your first video or two. Now I'm really jonesing hard for it! Already own a Fox 34 120...
You're halfway there! I think this bike really comes alive with a short offset fork.
It's a 51 mm offset fork, but hey, I'm sure the whole package would be a major upgrade from my 2012 Giant XTC 29 with is it's 71.5 hta (now 69 with the fork and angle set).
it would blow your mind how different this frame would feel from your xtc. It would feel like a completely different sport.
@@hardtailparty Oh man, wish I could demo a paradox! Hell, don't even know if or where I could buy one. But I sure do enjoy thinking about it. Thanks for making all the great content! I used to think my next bike would be full squish but more and more I'm feeling Hardtail 4 life! 🤙
Maxxis Dhf 2.3 front with Ardent Race 2.25 rear! Bulletproof setup with cushcore in the rear. That's on a 120mm hardtail riding Sedona everyday mid-March till May. Girdner North to South at Sunrise or Sunset is mo flow! Haha my XC bike is 27.6 lbs 2008 Gary Fisher 29er and I often choose it over my LT 29er enduro, same trails.
Maybe I'll see you out there one of these days.
@@hardtailparty Yes indeed, probably next winter. One more thing, try to review the Specialized Epic HT please!
I wanted a Paradox but availability was July soonest. I ordered a Canfield Nimble 9. It should arrive in 2 weeks.
Cool. I hope to have a nimble nine soon for review.
I have an sr suntour axon 100mm travel planning to use it on my dartmoor primal 29er what do u think would be the pros and cons with this set up?
I traveled the Pike on my Bardino from 160mm to 120mm and guess what, the bike rides sooo much better, it's insane. So much fun.
I believe it!
Hey, you've sold me on a Paradox V3. . . thinking about a similar underforked setup for midwest riding. Wondering if you can suggest a size? I'm a hair under 5'10. Arms and torso of a 5'10 - 5'11 guy. :)
Thanks!
How much uncut steer tube do you need on the Paradox V3 in your size? I have a fork I'd try to transplant but the BOTE has a pretty stubby head tube so I'm wondering if it's already too short...
Look at the geo charts and compare the head tube lengths.
Hi! What are your thoughts on seat angle 75 vs 72 pros and cons. I can see the Paradox is 75
Much appriciated.
I like what you said, about "If the Chameleon had a 66 or 65 HT angle.." Well, you got your wish! LOL
The Chameleon will also handle either a 140 or 150 travel fork. Would you say NOW in 2022 that you like the Chameleon as much or better than the Banshee? I know, they're all fun in their own way, but I'm now addicted to riding my Chameleon, and it's really BECAUSE of the changes they made to the geo, which was ALSO the kind of things you would and did suggest. You know what you're talking about and some things that have changed on bike designs in recent years have proven that. We've needed slacker HT's on hardtails for MANY years and we DON'T need any more than 140 travel. And like the 2022 Chameleon proves, you can slack it out and still make it playful.
Really though the most important thing you mentioned here is the changes integrating into the sport itself. It's soooo unnecessary to be promoting more and more BMX and DJ styles into real TRAIL riding. And you're right, there's nothing lacking in the joy of riding through beautiful trails with scenery of nature, and the true joy of what most of us ride for in the first place. Leave the stunts and jumps to the younger riders that like X-Games more than trail riding. Hey we all like to get air once in a while, but that shouldn't be what's necessary in order to "sell" the sport.
I really enjoyed this trail vicariously through your enjoyment you got from that Banshee bike this time. Again great stuff as always.
~JSV
what size did chameleon did u get and which for size? I find the L chameleon a lil small. I need to try an XL fist.
@@archietamayo76 If you're thinking that way, go for the XL. I'm 6ft but because of my riding position, long arms and legs, etc, I've been on only XL frames for several years now. I DID TEST the large frame, liked it, no real issues, but I'm so used to having that slight extra stack & reach that the XL felt like it was customized for me.
I also had to go with the "AL R" build, which was $600 more, or I would've had to wait 2 or more months due to availability. You know what, WAY WORTH IT. I'm actually glad I did. I've added the little extra custom appointments and now it's like a dream hardtail. Best hardtail ride I've ever had! It's a long wheel base but honestly doesn't feel too planted or sluggish, and you can adjust the chainstay length with the dropouts even if you don't ride the mullet (which I'm not. It's a full 29er).
When I get all my latest pics posted I'll link from this reply if you want? But definitely if you're in doubt ride the XL first.
~JSV
I bought one. Medium fits me just like a small commencal meta fits me. I am short 5’5” at best. Now I am at the crossroads of do I swap parts from my meta ohlins to the banshee or do I just have two hardtails😊
I can't wait to get my frame by the end of January! Going to run a 130mm Marzocchi Bomber Z2 up front! Thanks for the killer review! Whats the name of the trail you were on?
I have a Z2 140mm since 4 weeks on my hardtail. I love the fork. My bike came originaly with 120mm travel and i changed the fork. 140mm travel feels much better downhill. It climbs ok but 120mm was much better . I buy a new 130mm airshaft in a few weeks.
Great build-up on the Paradox! Wondering what bars you’re running and what sweep they have?
One-up carbon bars. I can't remember the sweep, but they have it listed online.
I really appreciate your video with your info! you just made me very insecure. i will order an orbea Laufey ltd shortly. Since I can choose the options, I will take the TD Swiss rims and wanted to upgrade to the Fox 36 Float Factory 150 Grip2 Kashima (the Fox 34 Float Performance 140 is standard). After this video, I'm a little worried whether the 36er fox is really necessary and whether it will really bring me more fun. i weigh 87 kg and use nature trails in austria (central europe). I would be very interested in your opinion, because I have already seen your review of the Laufey.
Was about to do this with a Honzo DL.
Put my deposit down today for the next batch of paradox frames. Im getting a medium in the raw color. I had emailed Banshee questions and one of the owners got back to me right away! Seems like a great company. I then worked with my local dealer to reserve my frame. If anyone wants one work fast. They are already selling out.
Congrats, it's a fantastic bike. I've been really impressed with their communication. Yes, you are right, even the next batch that isn't here yet is selling out. Now's the time to get one.
Trail dog is just shredding it
I'm curious about your Marin San Quentin comment. At about 6 minutes in the video you say it wouldn't work to do "this" to something like the San Quentin because the stack is already low. However, the San Quentin 1 comes with a 120mm fork (2 and 3 have 130mm) and I've found it to be a blast. It seems like the San Quentin already comes in the setup you're running here. You've got more experience than me so I might be missing some other relevant change you made.
Regardless. Great video. That bike looks hot and if I were in the market (and had the budget) I'd go for it in a heartbeat.
If you're loving it, that's all that matters. I've only ridden a San quentin 2 and 3, but even those had super low stack. It feels like the bars are super low to me. Some people like that, some people don't.
@@hardtailparty Cool. And to be fair I did move all the spacers to be under the stem and get the bars up a bit.
I'm riding a Vitus Rapide aluminum hardtail. It's been awesome for all the reasons you mention here! Would be cool to hear your thoughts on that bike and geo. Seems like going from 100 to 120mm would put it in the 66 degree neighborhood and chainstays of your banshee in xc mode. And on the bright side, it cuts very few corners (eg boost and tapered headtube and air fork) under $1000.
I like that it's got boost thru-axles for the price. The geo looks decent for an xc/trail bike.
@@hardtailparty dedication to respond to comments on older vids. Thanks man. Love the channel. Subbed.
I was running my Nimble 9 in 140mm, trying a 130mm to see how it changes things
I hear you mention reach and stack on a lot of your vids. Do you think that those are the 2 most important measurements that influence the feel of the bike. What range do you consider a high stack?
They're important for sizing especially.
That would be fun on my trails :-)
Im building a bike just like this. Meta am HT 120mm fox 34. YEET
If I can ever get a Big Al Frame, could you see doing the same thing to it? Lighter wheels, 120mm fork instead of the 140 mm they recommend? I seem to recall your Big Al review, you tried a 130 mm fork and changed to a 140 mm fork after a couple of rides. Actually have access to Rockshox Revelation Dual 120 mm / 140 mm fork that might be the best of both worlds. I live on the East Coast. Philadelphia to be exact.
In another reply to a similar Q about the Big Al, Steve said no.
Thanks for all the great videos.
Would you stick to a 29 with 120mm fork on this frame now steve?
How do you think the knight trail 29 wheels would be on this bike?
Depends on so many things. I'll be running mine at 120-130 in the future. I love Knight wheels. They are some of the best feeling when around.
Thanks for the reply.
I can’t decide on the knight 27.5+ or 29 enduro wheels for this frame. It will be in the U.K. so mainly forest tracks with gravel, mud, roots and jumps.
Have you heard anything about the knight enduros?
@@jonmeade6754 If you're jumping, go with the enduros.
Yes I did wonder about the knight 27.5+ wheels for jumping etc.
So I suppose that leaves the knight enduro 29 vs Zipp Moto 29.
I did want to try a 27.5+ wheel set for the extra tyre cushion but maybe a 29 knight or Zipp will give me that so the best of both worlds?
Unless you know a compliant 27.5+ wheel set/rim you can recommend?
Thanks again.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Ibis S28 carbon rims they developed with Stan's or the Flow CB7 rims, as a light trail rim with good width and an advertised softer ride. FYI I'm pretty sure Maxxis make a DD Ikon now, though only in 2.35, not 2.6 yet.
Do you have a link to a DD ikon? 2.35 would be plenty for a bike like this.
@@hardtailparty I have links for here in Australia. Maxxis part number is TB96731400.
Hi Steve. I wonder if you could give me some advice. Im thinking of maybe buying this frame and swapping over all my components from my trek roscoe 8 with 120mm rockshox fork. Is this doable and do you think this is a good idea? The main reason is that the frame is little too big for me and i would also like to try something with a little different geometry. My other option is to just sell the bike and buy a new one but trying to find the right bike in stock anywhere at the moment is pretty hard.
The problem with the roscoe is that it uses 141mm qr hubs, so you can't swap the wheels over to a modern frame.
@@hardtailparty i knew there was something, thanks for that. Il wait a while longer then and get a new bike for the summer hopefully. Its a bit dark, wet and wild here in the north of England at this time of year anyway so not getting out as much as i like. I like your channel by the way, keep up the good work. Il keep watching for recommendations.