Kathleen Stock: I won't be silenced
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- UnHerd's Julie Bindel meets Professor Kathleen Stock.
Kathleen Stock was forced to resign from Sussex University professor after an aggressive campaign of targeted harassment over her gender critical views.
The campaign to push Prof Stock out of Sussex began when she self-published a number blog posts critical of extreme transgender ideology. She was concerned that the majority of academics, including philosophers such as herself, were reluctant to criticise campaigns to introduce self-identification for transgender people.
Although Kathleen is understandably upset by the conduct of the small number of abusive students, she is adamant that many of them are taking a cue from the influential adults around them. “I don’t think they’ve actually read what I think. There’s a lot of enabling, or inciting, of individuals in this story,” she says.
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// TIMECODES //
00:00 - 00:55 - Introduction
00:55 - 02:31 - Kathleen Stock tells her story
02:31 - 03:39 - The anti-Stock Sussex protests
03:39 - 07:24 - Where did Katheen’s trans ideology journey begin?
07:24 - 13:34 - Julie Bindel and Kathleen Stock name names
13:34 - 17:47 - Is trans ideology rooted in misogyny?
17:47 - 20:10 - Julie Bindel: This debate is being stifled
20:10 - 23:52 - How does this affect young lesbians?
23:52 - 24:58 - Katheen Stock’s book, Material Girls
24:58 - 26:39 - Stonewall has taken over our national institutions
26:39 - 33:48 - Kathleen’s battle with her Sussex University union
33:48 - 37:52 - Maria Miller MP began the self-identification process
37:52 - 40:45 - Julie Bindel on prostitution and the end result of self-ID
40:45 - 47:19 - The human cost of trans protests
47:19 - 49:13 - What’s the future for women’s rights, Stonewall, LGBT, in the UK?
49:13 - 49:30 - Julie's conclusion
#KathleenStock #Trans #UnHerd
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In this exclusive interview with Julie Bindel, Dr Stock says:
➡️ She's not giving up
➡️ Gender theory is a pseudo-philosophy
➡️ Trans people should be legally protected
➡️ She had to stay at home for her own protection
Keep pushing for justice!
Does anyone else find it striking that the academics that are getting forced out are without fail the most emotionally mature, balanced and empathetic indviduals. My heart goes out to Kathleen, she has been so much.
Absolutely disgusted at how this woman has been treated. As an academic (STEM) have just cancelled my union membership. They didn't support you, so no longer want any association or to fund them. Vast majority of the public support her commonsense statements.
Also a retired stem academic, I know of at least one other working academic who has resigned ftom the Union on this issue of not supporting Dr Stock. The older among us were those who fought for these rights, and will never give in to ranting, violent misogynists. We will also never agree to women being eradicated from language or from society. We are also some tough old cookies here, having faced the glass ceiling in science in the 70s and 80s and broke through (eventually) I am not willing for that to be sacrificed.
UCU breaking their own policy here - trying to get a colleague dismissed is high on their list of what they describe as bullying.
I’m still really angry Kathleen left the Uni 🤬. It’s so completely unjust what she was put through and that one of the few brave voices in another institution has been trampled and forced out! I am going to bring this up with anyone and everyone that mentions university, women’s rights, gay rights, lesbians, transgender, stonewall, the weather… basically everyone needs to hear about this!
There is a long list of us. Out here, who never even got as much support from our universities, if any, as she did. It’s been a long, lonely road. I was the highest evaluated faculty member in my department every semester for 8 years. They were happy to use me to recruit students, always bringing they and their parents to my classes, unannounced, so I could sell their school, but when push came to shove, they silenced me. George Washington University in DC, the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore, and Washington University in St. Louis are complicit.
@@quintuplebanned4267 disgusting to hear how badly you where treated...
But take heart, the tides a turning 🙏🕊️
@@quintuplebanned4267 I am alumni of MICA...I was lucky to get out of their right before this sh!t blew up. Sorry you have felt alone in your fight. Every women speaking up and not backing down deserves our support. Thank you for your voice...you are not alone.🖖🏽💖
Holy smokes. Why bother having a philosophy department if conversations about the most fascinating, radical, mind-bogglingly complex theories, propositions and ideas are not encouraged and thoroughly enjoyed by all?! Why do these kids even go to college? Edit: I'm shadowbanned in my own reply thread, unable to respond to anybody. This is all over the internet for me at the moment. Sorry everybody kind enough to want to chat. :(
to get a degree
@@lunaridge4510 Exactly, a piece of paper, but nothing to do with learning, discovery and hearing alternative views.
There are two reply chains I was shadowbanned in where I spoke out against institutional authoritarians and totalitarianism. Both of them in the last 30 days. Meanwhile, the people making Ad Hominem attacks kept right on replying. So I know how you feel, and I agree with what you wrote in your comment.
There was a third reply chain where I was shadowbanned while discussing a woman who died from drinking too much water in a radio contest, and I also pointed out that people in extreme heat *or extreme dryness or altitude, and even extreme cold,* require more water than normal to insulate their bodies. Something tells me that shadowban might've been a glitch, and not actually a shadowban.
@@epicherbalism You sum it all up perfectly! If only that could all be represented in just a few colours or a 3 word chant, for the kids at the front...
@@epicherbalism And someone is paying them off to do this. They don't have any ethics and they don't think their targets are human. It's all about money.
"Nobody grown up falls for this", sums up the recent changes in patterns of activism. The grown-ups who don't fall for this are their targets.
Anyone who opposes their nonsense is a target.
@@lumpycustard3433 the tactics of their "activism" are thoroughly repulsive. If they can't act like adults in a grown-up debate, then they shouldn't be at a University.
Yes but the children are at the helm at the moment. It's very worrying.
As a midwifery student in Scotland, I absolutely feel unsafe to speak up against self-ID. It is absolutely horrendous to hear your midwifery professors claim that pregnancy is inclusive and the only thing you can do is roll your eyes. What else can I do? I have come to understand that they think they're being kind and "inclusive", and they don't fully understand the impact of their words. It's either that, or they simply don't care for women and their rights. But of course they do. Midwives care for women, that's the job. And they're betraying us and I can't say anything.
We all just have to speak up. I did, I wasn't popular, but it was still the right thing.
I know this probably doesn’t help at all but a lot of people utterly disagree with this extreme agenda - but they are a silent majority. The extreme nature of wearing balaclavas and making death threats against academics etc. like the protestors in this video, intimidate normal, kind people (including students at sussex) into silence.
I’m sure you completely understand this but job security and not being ostracised from your community is really the main reason people aren’t speaking out about the hugely frightening impact on women’s rights.
- however - there is so much hope, more people are standing up for women and, even if you disagree by yourself, we are all standing by you in solidarity for having empathy in the face of all of this.
You have to speak up. We need to be as active as the transactivists are in this regard. Take those professors aside and question their words. Express why this erosion of women is ultimately going to harm the very people you’re there to look after. If necessary, file a complaint. Threaten to leave the programme. Try to find others who agree with you to threaten group action. Start a petition. Anything other than staying silent.
@@ohwellwhateverr I absolutely agree and showing support for those ostracised is so, so important but the reality is that most women aren’t in a position to lose their jobs - kathleen stock for instance, was a middle class academic to begin with, with more then one income in her household and she still can write for a publisher or take up a feminist/journalist type position which many normal women don’t have the financial privilege of doing
@@ohwellwhateverr but yeah, petitions are an amazing, anonymous way to start - as well as writing to your mp, to the bbc, to women’s hour etc. and attending conferences like “a woman’s place uk” (as you said, it’s a safer way to show support within a crowd without such a high change of getting too personally affected)
...to be fair even in situations where you aren’t employed - like student raquel rosario sanchez - a paying university student who simply had one small feminist group; was ruthlessly picketed by activists dressed in black, stalked for weeks and now faces court action to defend herself against such a huge entity as Bristol University - so it’s not always easy and it can seriously damage your lifelong career if you don’t chose when to support wisely
Professor Stock is so dignified - and most importantly, a scholar. She speaks so reasonably, and is the kind of person who would make me want to understand aspects of feminism which I do not know about. As the interviewer says, Professor stock is very “fair”.
The fact that her colleagues (who are supposed to be scholars) do not support her is absolutely scandalous.
Yep, she speaks common sense. Nice lady, shame what is happening to her and totally unfair, it would seem.
All power to you Kathleen. I can feel how raw and shaken you still are by this. Take your time to heal. Millions of women and men are behind you in this wretched business x
How she's been treated is absolutely disgraceful. I'm pretty disgusted that student's parent's even joined in. So juvenile & unthinking.
The snake turned and bit her. She is simply a victim of the same group of ideologies she herself has propagated, including radical feminism. No surprises in that she got bitten.
I applaud this professor. We need more people to speak up and defend women’s rights. These woke people are RADICALISED!
Didn’t get enough love and attention as children. Now it’s me me me me meeeee.
@@skonther0ck yes, that’s exactly Stock’s schtick. This woman threatened to sue a student journalist, who was later monetarily compensated for distress brought on by GC harassment brigading. She also literally got a blogger fired from their job.
@@LizaFan Good for her. This is what pushback looks like.
@@LizaFanaww. I’m sure Kathleen Stock knows nothing about harassment herself. Couldn’t believe all the banging and screaming from people outside when she gave that talk at Oxford.
@@LizaFan Interesting that all you have is an ad hominem. Are you not able to address any of the main substance of the interview? Surely, you are intelligent enough to understand that saying that someone is a 'bad person' is not to refute that person's logic. Try again.
Hey - rather than making posters, name calling and setting off flares, why don’t students and fellow academics who disagree with Dr Stock take off their masks and debate the detail outside their twitter/university bubble? I’ll be buying her book and considering it - publish your reasoned, researched response and I’ll consider it. Universities and unions have lost their way by supporting violence over debate.
Yeah, one would think that, but this is not how this ideology, a form of secular religion, works. Their arguments, beyond having virtuous intentions, don't hold water and can't be defended, so hysterical shouting, intolerance, lies, false accusations and the threat of violence, are their means to justify their beliefs.
Perfectly put
🙏🕊️❤️
Word. Psychological self-identification cannot alter material/biological realities.
Why comment if your opinion does not count?
Psychological self-identification is nonsense. Firstly, it adheres to a very outdated and misogynist socially constructed idea of the gender binary. Secondly, how could a man possibly have any idea of what it feels like to be a woman?
@@user-ux7yg2ch6i So there is no gender binary, but 'men' can't know what it's like to be a 'woman'.. Your argument contradicts itself rather..
@@willpushback4874 there is a sex binary
@@willpushback4874 It rather doesn't. You are welcome to re-read my comment.
Now I know what I am. I'm a gender critical-feminist ally. I've never liked bullies, and I still don't.
The irony in this case here is that GC feminists are actually the one who are being the bullies.
@@daisybe3736 how is it bullying to know what men and women are, and stand up for their sex-based rights?
@@daisybe3736 Explain the logic to me, would you? This woman faced targeted harassment in the workplace, with her name slandered and literally plastered all over the campus and on her route home, with threatening messages left for her in the toilets, with balaclava-wearing thugs crowding her place of work and chanting and throwing flares and burning a fucking effigy of her, to the point where she ends up having to resign?
And you think SHE is the bully? This is why people don’t trust transactivists - you’re delusional and sociopathic in equal measure.
@@apebass2215 It's the dehumanizing & denying of basic rights & protections to other marginalized genders. Something your group often does.
A lot of GC feminists are bullies too.
Loud and clear! Couldn't agree more. This gender theory thing is reverting women to the invisibility it took decades to come out of
but haven't women won all you wanted? Invisible? polio is invisible, because it is solved.
Exactly, Lluis, which is why I'm furious that the words "woman" & "lesbian" have been erased from the language. Which has clearly been the goal of the exercise from the beginning.
@@jackdeniston59 I'm not a woman, I'm a man. And dude; "polio is invisible"? Tell that to my friend Isabel, who was condemned to a wheelchair since childhood. And tell that to the thousands of people in devrloping countries that are still struck by polio every year...
In any case, if you are interested in the notion of "invisibility" in feminist activism and thought, please read a few books
@@jackdeniston59 Are you suggesting that women are something to be "solved" and that by solving us, we are to be made "invisible"? This is a really bad analogy. Try again.
@@jackdeniston59 Every 3 days a women is murdered by a man in the UK
So in answer to your question, No!
As an Aussie I wasn’t aware of these events: how is this not workplace BULLYING???
Fabulous interview - you were both thoroughly engaging women.
Australia has managed to escape this nonsense? If so, I sincerely hope it stays that way. Twenty years from now, I anticipate far too many unhappy individuals who were surgically-impaired when still too young and too suggestible to make wise decisions.
@Flik AM Hell! American virtue-signaling is poisoning the western world. This is utter INSANITY. I'm not against genuine gender dysphorics, but it is medical malpractice to push confused children into transformative hormonal and surgical treatments. This nonsense is homophobic, anti-female, and, worst of all, dangerous to children.
As to allowing males who conveniently "identify" as female into women's spaces, the authorities are aiding and abetting crimes if the women are not safe. My position is not trans-phobic, it is simply recognition of the danger that a minority of males (humans born with dicks) pose to females. Hell, some males present a grave danger to genuinely dysphoric males who have transitioned, and probably present a danger to females who have transitioned.
@Flik AM Your kind response-offer showed up in my mailbox, but appears to have disappeared (been disappeared?) from the thread. YT is doing such strange (anti-free-speech) things to comments, that it's no surprise.
@@notajot This is true. I make a lot of comments in these threads about trance ideology & trans demands activists and in the last 2 days, I've had comments disappear within MINUTES of me posting them. Fortunately, I have a form history extension & also copy my comments into my note-taking app so I often just post them again, sometimes altering what might be flagged words like adding an "e" to "peenis". But I did that 2 days ago and the REPOSTED comments were gone the next time I reloaded the page, just minutes later. So yeah, YT hates free speech.
@@jimbodriver1015 True ----- until some of these poor people realize that they were misled into permanent procedures that have ruined their lives, and sue those who did not provide due diligence.
This interview and the comments have given me some much needed hope that logic, reason and facts still matter. It’s unbearable how Kathleen was treated but I believe she’ll beat the bullies and shame her unprofessional ex colleagues and union with her new found audience (eg people like Me!) and the quality of her work and character- All best wishes to you Kathleen
It is clear that students no longer attend Universities to be educated. It is also clear that Universities are less inclined to teach students, but increasingly likely to pamper them.
The raison d'etre of universities is becoming increasingly unclear.
I thought university was to teach students to use their brains, be critical, examine and challenge. Now it seems to be any but that. In other words- this is what is right, don’t question it. It’s like they go there and are brainwashed and propagandised to believe things that can’t be substantiated
Many students completely support Kathleen Stock and free speech. All is not lost.
Nine thousand pounds a year is a helluva drug.
@@melmorrison1400 critical thinking has become a forbidden and deadly sin as of late
I’m with you all the way Kathleen
I am amazed at how my formerly sane friends have got caught up in this and condone this violent, anti-woman insanity. To watch them virulently campaign against their own safety is very disturbing. I don't understand why trans rights mean taking away anyone else's rights. Of course, the vast majority of thoughtful, intelligent people are absolutely in support of trans people.
I am a woman, and I do not need to add the prefix 'cis' to my gender and no, that does not make me transphobic.
I know it’s as if they can’t see things correctly. I’m finding it very scary.
Power of the media unfortunately. They build the consensus to change what the population think - that's why it is being shoved down everyone's throats at every opportunity.
There is a bell curve for the suggestibility of/ability to convince people. Smaller numbers at the bottom end are those who believe anything they are told and easy to indoctrinate. At the other end, small numbers of people who are extremely hard to influence and in the middle are the majority who - given the right circumstances can be swayed. That's who they are targeting... always
If what you're complaining about is adding "cis" to a noun your life is pretty fine and you don't have much to worry about.
what is this argument re safety? I am mostly aware of trans people being unsafe in bathrooms and the like not cis women being attacked by men pretending to be women.
@@laurensternhagen8826 There is hard data that shows unisex bathrooms = more sexual assaults on women.
Therefore in a situation where you choose your bathroom by simply deciding your gender on the day - Men can walk into women's bathrooms unchallenged. When men can do this the stats show increased risk of sexual assault.
Not all men by a long way will assault women and this also of course doesn't mean necessarily that trans people will do this. It does however mean that by allowing anyone into any bathroom you are creating an environment where women are much more likely to be sexually assaulted.
So what needs to be considered is women being about 50% and trans about 0.7% of population - should we be putting so many people at risk of sexual assault just to appease a minority? Safer to keep the men's women's separate and maybe have a third for whoever fancies it. That will be expensive to please a relatively small number of people...
Well done Kathleen and Julie. It is heartening to know there are people in academia willing put themselves on the line against this BS. I applaud you both. I’ve stood in your shoes and it’s not easy. Here’s to the true leaders of this dissolving society ❤️
We can't give in to the mob. Far too much to lose.
100% solidarity from me and many, many gay men who respect and support you Professor
i dont like these extremists who spread their hatred on behalf of all gays... thx for this comment
I'm one of those gay men, Dennis. Thanks for speaking up.
Agreed, absolutely no reason for gay (or bi, for that matter) men to attach to this insane, loopy ideology.
@@lolcat5303 I think we will soon see a huge turnaround. Fathers and husbands are not going to put up with naked ogling men in women's spaces and certainly not sport. Once his daughter has lost a scholorship to a university through sports, all hell will break loose. I hope.
@@Clem62 Wow! Back to the White Knight on his dashing charger to the rescue of damsels in distress! Just what women's liberation has been about all along!
I learnt a lot about the harm in legalising self ID. Kathleen explained it so well. I respect this brave woman's stand.
Imagine the biologically female prisoner locked up with a biological male in a women’s prison. No escape from a potential rapist. The risk is indisputable.
Wonderful to hear Kathleen rising like a Phoenix from the ashes. Brighton women stand with Kathleen Stock XX
isnt Brighton far behind enemy lines these days? :)
I suspect she'll be cast into outer darkness, those former colleagues are the tip of a massive iceberg, so to speak.
@@jakegillespie6811 - I consider myself progressive and fairly woke - but these transactivists are neither. Instead they are in fact regressing to a former idea of gender identity that predates women's lib.
The fact that their worst enemies are gender critical feminists is the clue. Why are they so upset by the notion that much of what we assume as female/male behaviour (wearing make up/ doing certain jobs such as caring, wearing trousers/skirts/high heels) are in fact nothing more than cultural/societal norms?
I haven't worn a skirt for years, hate nail polish and high heels and my partner cooks the dinner - does that mean I'm not a woman? Of course not - but I am the enemy because I am a gender critical feminist.
I feel that they want to inhabit/own some outdated idea of what a woman is - almost in a creepy/sexually threatening way. Caveat: I do not think most trans people are like this - only this tiny minority of very vocal transactivists.
I'd never heard of Kathleen Stock before trans activists raised her profile. I've since read her book and the one by Helen Joyce. And I share their concerns about the consequences of gender self identification. Especially on children.
@Nigel1048 Thousands of children every year are being referred to the Tavistock gender reassignment services now. The majority are girls. If they are socially transitioned they have started on the road towards body mutilation and sterilisation. That is unacceptable for girls who may merely be gender non conforming. Or autistic. Or struggling to come to terms with being lesbian.
@Nigel1048 Obviously trans activists don't care about child welfare. They don't care about the safety offered by women only spaces either. Or about fairness in sport. Their only consideration is their perceived rights, which are pursued at the detriment of other people's needs.
As a bricklayer I used to admire academics and never resented the garnishing of my wages funding academia. A massive privilege of the highest order in any society you could imagine. However, having observed the absurd culture war unleashed from the campus's in the USA and UK I would now like my money back.
😅
I love that a bricklayer is watching this (assuming you are a man but maybe you aren't)
@@annaleese8866 I became interested in campus politics while deprogramming my three children who all attended university. I think some academics, not all, are terrified of their own irrelevance. ....Not too many female bricklayers and it's not for the want of trying. I taught construction for a few years and many girls would sign up and we were instructed to favour female applicants, but most dropped out due to the long hours of work. It was disappointing as some were very good at it. Also I would add that women on building sites have a very civilising effect on the men. Less swearing etc.....
@@MrStevekendra late to the party but you sound cool AF 😅 'deprogramming' love it 🙌
Well, I’d remind you that academia produces those voices you may agree more with as well, such as Kathleen here, and also that countless academics do superb work and education on a host of critical topics not least scientific research.
My experience of life has shown me that most people are cowards. It is hard to be brave and go against prevailing mores .
True. If you do stand up you have to be so much stronger - and it can be relentless. I did and gave it away. It gobbles you up
I say, stand or be trampled under foot 🕊️
True. And important to recognize that we're all capable of cowardice and the antidote is self-development. The reason most people are cowards void of principles is that most people are incapable of introspection and self-work. Consequence is they become bitter people uncritical of authority, and susceptible to authoritarian mobs.
@@Badabinger Precisely!
@@Badabinger Oh and-- the lazy allure of groupthink becomes a panacea that keeps the hard work of self development forever off on the horizon where it needn't be broached....
Kathleen, you are one of the most impressive people and important voices in the world today. Your courageous spirit in the face of such extreme adversity, is a humbling example to us all. You are REASON. and so many people are waiting to hear MORE OF IT.
Fully agree. Long may she continue.
Shes a lesbian, maybe she should not be in straight women's spaces eh?
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I m so sorry for what you had to go through, Dr Stock. What utterly bizarre times we find ourselves in. I truly never saw it coming, not like this.
I did. We've only ourselves to blame and now it's too late.
@@joycegibbs5267 nar
It's not too late
The tide is turning 🕊️
she does have a brighter future ahead. She''ll be known as the one who went bravely to the front lines in this war. She has managed to explain a complex topic in simple English for the masses to understand. From this interview I think Stonewall have a lot to answer for. They have jumped on the trans bandwagon and have left their core clientele out to dry. Maybe they were afraid of being out of a job. Great interview and great interviewer. The tide is turning i feel. Keep telling your story. Love and light
she should sue the union for pain suffering and mental anguish. Normally I dont agree with these sorts of settlements as they are often exagerated or false. In this case they have a case to answer. If the unions have no risk of damages by hanging this woman out to dry, then they will do it time and time again. They need to be accountable
I also believe the tide is turning. The more people who speak up, the faster it will turn. I live in the U.S. btw.
I think that Julie was referring to Kathleen's involvement with foundation of the University of Austin (UATX) as genuinely liberal Liberal Arts College. Plans were announced almost a week after this was uploaded. Several of the leading lights in resistance to NeoPuritanism are involved.
I thought "burn the witch" was a thing of the past .
Neither are the Fascist.
Don't think because we are modern and sophisticated we are not capable of repeating the same horrors of the past.
@emerald this is both an insightful and terrifying statement.
Watched this with my wife - also a senior academic - and she said, "Stock reminds me of myself. A voice of liberal sanity in an increasingly mad world." My wife, like Stock, is an elegant, thoughtful, polite and kind woman. Her alumni adore her. I'm sure Dr. Stock's people feel the same. Oh! Should add that I'm a straight, white, liberal, middle class, lifelong Gruaniad reading, philosophy graduate, hetero male of a certain age. And I like Julie's stuff. And I've stopped reading the Grauniad, because it's written by children for children.
As someone who was once described as a "guardian reading p**f who lives in Islington", I agree with you. I stopped reading that rag years ago.
I gave up on the Guardian several years ago, having once been a regular reader. Someone recently referred to their "journalists" as the Guardian Typing Pool.
For children
By children
Brilliant 😂
The Guardian has become a parody of itself these days.
@@thedativecase9733 A pleasure to meet you! Have you been back to the Corkadoraghagh Gaelic Feis? (If you understand that question, I’ll be so very happy)
I read Dr Stock's book just a couple of weeks ago, and found it to be a model of lucidity, conceptual precision and moral seriousness: everything applied philosophy should be. Her proposal to understand trans experience as immersion in a fiction was particularly interesting and suggestive. If I have a criticism it is that the book is far too polite and generous to some of the incoherent ideas she criticises. I recall thinking that even if I had the talent I would not have had anything like the patience required so carefully and assiduously to take apart the risible nonsense which constitute gender ideology. We are all in her considerable debt for having undertaken this task.
It scarcely needs saying that those attacking her as transphobic have not read the book. But then such accusations and denunciations are not intended as truthful descriptions of anything, but rather as performative moves in a cynical power struggle aimed at abolishing women's spaces: for after all neither truth nor justice are of any interest to such people.
Thank you for this. It sums up my perspective entirely also.
Beautifully put.
Exactly. A hate filled mob of men with Stockholm sisters in support. The Left has gone mad.
@@alleyneT I hadn't heard the term 'Stockholm sisters' before: that's very good. My sense fwiw is that the men in question are not driven in the first instance by hate but by a narcissist sense of entitlement; the hatred then arises in a twofold process. First there is generalised hostility and aggression at having their intimate fantasies thwarted or even challenged - by anyone at all. Then from the realisation that some of this resistance is coming from women - that is when their innate misogyny (sense that the proper place of women is and can only be to service men's desires and flatter their egos) issues in the hatred and contempt for women which is so characteristic of trans activism generally.
The psychology of the so-called 'allies' is actually more interesting to me. Can it really be simply a readiness to be taken in by any group who present themselves as at the bottom of a supposed oppression matrix (and hence at the top of a grievance hierarchy)? But why this group rather than another? And why haven't they noticed that so many of these self-styled 'marginalised' and 'oppressed' were actually doing rather well in terms of status, privilege and power until they announced their newly discovered victimhood to a chorus of cheers and applause, and continue to do just as well or even better now? (Obviously I am talking about the middle-aged trans-identifying men here, not the confused self-harming teenagers) The Left has made an number of mistakes - and committed a fair few crimes - up to now, but I am pretty sure it has never been quite **this** gullible before.
@@alleyneT Stockholm Sister
Love it.
Women have internalised so much of the Masogany 🙏🕊️
Gay man here and I am 100% supportive of you. I do not understand why the Government are not dealing with this issue and going back to reality.
Fear of the mob. Fear of saying the wrong thing. Fear of being 'cancelled'.
This government wants you at each others throats , they encourage it. Divide and conquer is part of the plan.
When the world tells us that 2+2 no longer equals 4, we are all in serious trouble.
Well, since math is now racist - I think we’re there…
2+2=1 if you're in modulo 3.
Applaus for the bravety.
Bravety is not not having fear, it is doing the right thing despite fear and costs.
Or as Jordan Peterson remarked "Courage is being afraid of the right thing".
@@russellsharpe288 “When you have something to say, silence is a lie.”
― Jordan B. Peterson, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos
My understanding of Mr Peterson's beliefs are that much of 'woke' ( for want of a better word) culture is the fault of women leaving there given position in society...
He is no ally of radical feminist 🕊️
@@lovesees4320 Your understanding is wrong in my opinion.
“They will say anything” is such an honest statement and has no ending. Women are being pushed aside in this fake version of womanhood with a costume. Thank you ☀️
Trans is to women what blackface is to black people.
Wonderful interview. Two intelligent, educated, wise and rational women who exude integrity. Ms Stock is a heroine.
Professor Stock, you’re fabulous. I’m so sorry this happened to you. You sound a bit shaky - please take care of yourself. ❤️
I'd be shaky too 🕊️
Thank you so much for this wonderful interview. We are lucky to have your powerful voices speaking up for women. You both have suffered so much. Thank you for your courage and bravery.y
Eventually cancel culture comes for everyone when you acknowledge facts and common sense truth over political correctness.
I wonder if you'll hold that stance when the conversation about how illiberal feminism has become starts?
In my experience some people just cancel themselves due to this whole thing
Judge them by their fruits
People who bully & try & shut other down, for whatever reason are just oppressers.
@@jimbodriver1015 now ya getting it 😀
Around minute 42:00 you talk about how it's not just high-profile women who "feel like they're choking." I had to sit through a LGBTQI+ training yesterday for the first time EVER and it was incredibly difficult and frustrating not to be able to freely share how much I know about these issues. I complained quietly to a few people but they have no idea what I've learned, and not to be able to say out loud that their suicide statistics were bull shit or that the very idea that a child's teacher should keep social transition a secret from parents was utterly reprehensible and damaging... Not to be able to object to the idea of "expected pronouns," etc., etc..... I have to say it was a very difficult exercise in self-discipline that lasted 4 full hours. I can't say any of that because I don't want to lose my job. My last name is not actually "Anon," just fyi. I wouldn't be arrested because this is the USA.... but I sure as hell could lose my job for having the "wrong" opinions on this issue and that's terrifying.
Very interesting discussion and a very well organised production. Professor Kathleen Stock is a national treasure!🌟 She has unintentionally, and at great cost to herself, brought clarity and publicity for the legitimate rights of women by not giving in to mobs of activists, many of whom, clearly have medieval, anti-democratic and misogynistic behaviours.
Trouble is - she resigned and therefore capitulated to the mob. I perfectly understand her reasons for leaving but we can't get round the fact that in this instance as in many others the mob won. Thank god for youtube.
@@artemisjuno If she felt her physical integrity was at risk, then she did the right thing. Whatever she decides to do is the right thing.
Two amazing women standing up for women and girls, thank you. Dr.Stock, I loved your book and I hope you find strength in all the support you are receiving now.
The teenage daughter of a friend of mine recently came out as gay, saying that she felt like a man and was considering gender re-assignment. The sinister pseudo-philosophy Kathleen Stock has refuted would encourage her to attempt to change herself physically so she can acquire, as far as possible, a man's body, with all the concomitant risks to her physical and mental health. I'm hoping that the robust common sense and kindness of friends and relatives - "just accept what your biological nature has given you and be a happy, proud, self-accepting, butch lesbian!" - will win her over. Only a moron would classify such common sense as "transphobic".
How does she know what being a man feels like if she isn't one? What does being male or female feel like for anyone?
@@apebass2215 that has been my question throughout this! I suffered from bullying and what not for being pretty butch in my younger years but I knew I was just a different type of woman, not a man trapped. I even outgrew it and became a hetero mom of 3 married happily to a man. How could my DNA get everything right but my brain? It is scary to think that now I would be pushed to change drastically to push an agenda. That question doesn't get asked enough, if at all, even by the doctors.
@@apebass2215 it's a question you're not allowed to ask, unfortunately. This is part of the problem - if you try to go down that avenue, immediately you're branded a "transphobe" for questioning their feelings. I mean, if person X is a biological woman who feels like a man, then the tenets of "inclusivity" necessitate that you affirm these feelings without question... even to ask genuine, sensitive questions is tantamount to transphobia.
@@apebass2215 exactly, sex isn’t a feeling It’s a biological observation
@@hotspringroll I had a conversation just today with a teenager who told me that he’s “male, but a girl”. I told him that that is impossible, since a girl is a young adult female. He was convinced that whether someone was a man or woman / boy or girl was purely a matter of subjective self-description.
What are kids being taught? Where are they getting this from? And why is it going unchallenged? If a boy can identify as a girl and access female only spaces, what’s to stop an adult identifying as a child and using that to abuse the law?
Dear Prof Stock,
I suspect that I am just one of a large silent majority who are and have been appalled by the abuse to which you have been subjected and applauds the courageous stand you have and are taking against the attempts to intimidate and bully you into silence.
The 'Institutional timidity ' of Universities and National organisations allows those proclaiming these irrational and dangerous beliefs to thrive unchallenged. We teach children that it is necessary to stand up to bullies.
The bravery and integrity you demonstrate in challenging these bullies is a shining example to us all.
Thank you.
Two fabulous, courageous, intelligent women. Just listened to both your books on audible. You are shifting the discussion and bringing these issues to the mainstream. Thank you.
Absolute solidarity with you both - great interview - onward and upward Kathleen 💪💯❤️ from Faculty of Law, University of Hong Kong - here we know where "you can't say that" leads.
Your voice, from inside academia is important
🙏🕊️
Yes.It leads to a dead end for everyone.
When universities can be trolled into publishing a slightly edited Mein Kamp as a genuine social science paper, you know academia is broken.
Philosophical Penis as a Social Construct! 🤣
Yup, the door of reality & rationality was opened by feminist theory and left open
@@OrwellsHousecat that's right
It'll be all Feminist fault 😂
@@jimbodriver1015 uninformed. Grievance Hoax Papers - James Lindsay, Helen Pluckrose, Peter Berghossian. Check out the video doc from Mike Nayna - it's entertaining even if you don't agree with the point
“All we’re doing is insisting on basic facts of biology and their social implications.” Doc Stock
It's all about the power and control, nothing else.
They are irrational bullies. Try arguing with them some time, you can't win by defult.
@@calstonjew And they probably feel the same when debating with you. People don't want to be swayed. And to label people as 'irrational' and 'bullies' doesn't help a discourse that allows for learning and understanding.
Yes, that's what trans people and their allies are up against...the power and control that would opppose them. Correctly identified.
@@Arcadiabeckons And what do you think women are up against?
Looks like we're having to put up with blokes in our changing rooms because of all this and you have the audacity to twist the words around now.
@@anonymousone7448 lol because a rampant sexual offender would logically go through the tremendous burdens of transitioning and marginalised experiences of the trans community just so he could molest women. If a man is that way inclined, he'd crassly choose the path of least resistance-not most! But yes why 'twist' words to reflect the actual lived realities when you can crap out the most generic, boring and unsubstantiated fear-mongering scenario?
Thank you both for standing up for women. We are in such a dire situation at the moment. So many are so afraid to speak up. You give us hope.
Surely we also need to stand up for reasoned debate, enlightenment values, free speech and rational thinking, all currently under threat
Her voice seem shakey, I hope she is holding up. Infuriating how spineless academics have been.
Agreed TC
Yes it does.
It's hard to stand up to a unthinking, feeling mob...
But stand she did!
Good for Her 🙏🕊️
Fantastic interview with a courageous woman. I'd hazard a guess that most people agree with KS. 👏
Great interview. Prof Stock's integrity is almost overwhelming. I'm a PhD in the humanities and I have to say that I have encountered resistance in my criticism of certain political and philosophical aspects of identity politics. However, when talking about it with other PhDs and early career academics, I also have the feeling that the tide is changing. Even people who were on board with many tenets of idpol are questioning it. And I'm sure a lot of this is thanks to the incredible hard work of women like Prof Stock and Julie Bindel.
Amen. How sad is it that this ideology is irreparably damaging lives, and still people fight vehemently and despicably to defend it.
I'm with you
People can see where this is heading, finally.
🙏🕊️
glad to hear there is hope. I don’t think we are over the hump yet. At some point, power figures will need to put their foot down and say NO to these people!
I didn't know who she was until a few weeks ago but when I understood what she was standing for I ordered her book. She is brilliant and must be supported. Material Girls is an excellent book and all podcasts I have listened to - yes, in the past few weeks - are measured, intelligent, and compassionate.
Look forward to watching the next phase of her career.
She's still a Professor.
Absolutely, a voice that very much still needs to be heard 👍
Know of any based academic institutions?
@tuli rz She chose to leave.
@@luxwolf8858 Yeah,ok.It sounds more like she was driven out.
The same methods were used in China in the Cultural Revolution.
death of free speech will bring down civilisation. full support for you and your work prof.
Yet, there is free speech, only if its the right speech. That's why civilisation is going down.
When the people who are capable of engaging in rigourous fact based debate are shouted down and cancelled by those who believe that feelings equal facts and this is simply not up for discussion,civil society withers and dies on the vine of decadence.
This is such an important discussion. Thank you.
Stock's book 'Material Girls' is good. Stock is light on any feminism while being strong on careful logic.
Buy it for the logic!
I tried to buy it because I just got paid, saw it said "pre order", so came to find out that it had sold out. That's great news of course.
There are many feminists like Stock (if she IDs explicitly as a feminist, many women are not anymore despite being women's rights activists), they just aren't the fun, popular ones. They most certainly aren't the ones being held up, approved of, given endless platforms, and showered with praise by corporations, media, politicians, and men- BUT, They are there, and I would say (academic genius aside) the average feminist-leaning woman is closer to Stock's version of feminist thinking than they are to, say, radical trance-inclusive/pro prostitution & porn/rainbow capitalist, middle class white liberal feminists (phew), but they're constantly being purposely ignored by media (Wi Spa situation and the subsequent protest was a great example of that- only Christians and republican men were shown to be protesting, despite most of the protestors being women for good reason!)
This was a great interview and explained the issues clearly. I support Kathleen and Julie 100%. Feminism and Women's Rights, fought for over decades, must not be eroded.
I was SO shocked when she said FORTY colleagues went to the ‘rival’ talk. A much more dire situation than I anticipated! Universities and the education system in general need a major overhaul - in more ways than one. The quality of education in this country is abysmal and I say this from first hand experience!
It's amazing how people can know someone their whole life and then suddenly change their opinion about them based on what amounts to hearsay. There really is some sort of brainwashing going on
@@musiceporium7152 A degree is no longer worth the paper it's written on.
SIX HUNDRED academics put their names to an open letter criticizing Kathleen Stock. That's gives you some idea how widespread this problem is.
@emerald Many not from the UK to be fair, so it's not as if they all know her.
Kathleen, I send you my very best wishes and support from across the pond in America. I'm reading your book now, and it's terrific. Thank you for standing up for biological girls and biological women.
Stonewall is not fit for purpose. As are her 'colleagues'.
It's a bit like The Guardian, it used to be good (ish) but not anymore.
Well said Kathleen and Julie. So many women are right there with you and we will never be silenced!
Tans women also will NEVER be silenced, so its best to adapt..
@@willpushback4874 Except it’s only trans activists who want to silence women within feminism, academia…everywhere 🙄
@@willpushback4874 Been out for 40 years and there was never this kind of antagonism and meanness within LGBT and the world at large by TRAS and Gen Z followers who don't know shit from shinola. The far left have created a shitshow circus expecting every and all demands met without question and if anyone but especially women speak out there is harassment, threats, and vile things said like "hope you get raped" and "suck my lady dick."
And there is harassment to the degree that people are leaving or getting unfairly fired from their jobs.
We're getting prepared alright. Don't think we're not.
@@willpushback4874 - adapt to what? Losing our biological identity?
@@ohthelovelypoems What's "the far left" got to do with this?
#TeamStock ✊🏽
@Anon Name LOL
You speak with courage. I have never had any animus towards the LBJT…etc. community. The constant haranguing and, shoving unscientific theory at me, regarding the trans community, is over the top. DNA is a scientific fact. If you are born female or male, that is that. Women’s sports are definitely being affected. Silencing anyone that speaks the truth, is a terrifying path.
LB"J"T 😂😂
I don't recall feminist complaining about their opponents being silenced.
@@spurge83 I don't recall their apponents being silenced.
@@jimbodriver1015 What...
Everyone loved feminist...
What planet you on. Women have had to fight for every advancement they have made against a society that wanted to keep us in the unpaid, unrecognised caring role of society.
Women still do not have equality of pay, housework, childcare...
Every 3 days a women is murdered by a man in the UK
Your idea if love is somewhat scewed
@@lovesees4320 yes women do now have equal pay when factoring all things related to job. Men didnt/dont have automatic child care either 🤷♀️ a lot of men are also single parents ie divorced/separated. This isnt a cut and dried issue of course.
Thank you both for this interview, I could have listened to you both for another hour. I was at a book launch in Cambridge where Kathleen was speaking and could see the toll standing up and speaking out was taking on her, nice to see some of that stress gone from her face.
Her colleagues should be ashamed, of their actions can't imagine them conducting themselves as courageously and articulately when the spotlight shines in their direction.
I have shared this interview in order that more people can understand exactly what Kathleen Stock and Julie Bindel have been saying. This and the Women’s Hour interview are both excellent and I salute the bravery of both of these women. Thank you.
Kathleen is such a wonderful person and truly gifted. I wish her all the very best for the future.
Excellent woman.
Thank you for doing this interview, Julie. I have been appalled at what has happened to Kathleen Stock, and am even more sickened and outraged after listening to this interview. It seems any dissent, any debate, any rigorous inspection of this idea of self identity with regards to gender and its inevitable end results, which we are seeing, is stonewalled, pardon the pun. I sent #KathleenStock an email a few weeks ago to her UoS inbox. Just expressing my support and solidarity with her. I hope she gets these messages of support. Sensible people who refuse to lie about biology need to stand together and we need to support high-profile victims of this new ideology of victimisation, harassment and stifling of free speech, ie, facts.
Thank you for allowing us to finally hear voices of reason. Self-ID is not compatible with ensuring vital same-sex laws, or women’s rights.
Quite right!
Dear Kathleen, I purchased your book, principally as an act of solidarity. It was a privilege to read; it is a document of immense value and deserves the broadest audience. It speaks to the core values of civilisation and the enlightenment. Society owes you for your courage in upholding and defending critical academic values, and for standing for the moral authority of your profession. My thanks to you, Julie, and UnHerd for a such a compelling presentation. We stand with you.
I’m going to use this as part of my dissertation. Thank you!
What's your topic?
👍🏽
@@fe5018 I would also like to know.
Kathleen's inspiring book "Material Girls" is a must-read. She's terrific.
Appalling treatment of this professor. Feels just just another example of how upside-down logic and critical thinking have become in this weird world, especially in the last two years. I am struggling to understand how we got here and where we are going, as a species, with all these layers of 'insanity.'
Self-identity as something other is fine between children at play - it's actually quite healthy and normal in that context - but it's fantasy that doesn't fit the harsh realities of adulthood, outside of fancy-dress parties and comic conventions. People have lost their grip.
Good point actually - you could pretty much compare it to role-playing!
The self ID laws are dangerous laws that leave Women & Children vunerable to preditors. The Wi Spar incident in US a case in point. That is not in any way to suggest all Trans people are preditors, but all communities have these broken people, as well as allowing non Trans perps to mascerade as Trans to access women & children only spaces 🕊️
@@jimbodriver1015 Where they are always the center of attention and everyone else has to accept every single thing they say and smile and just adore them for it
What a wonderful inspiring, rational podcast from two of the most courageous individuals in the country. With you all the way.
I love Julie Bindel's writings and hadn't really delved into Kathleen Stock's case - thank you for providing the opportunity to learn about it from these two smart academics!
Its a complete disgrace what she had to endure. I hope she sues the university for big money. And go after the actual instigators and sue them as well, drag their names through the courts. All universities need to fire and kick out anyone who harasses anyone, especially women who weren't even allowed into universities 100 years ago. The trans community needs to weed out the abusers.
How refreshing to hear two smart women having a rational dialogue. It’s a shame though, that they have to spend their time and energy on issues which should be considered obvious and non polemical.
The reaction of her union concerns me most.
I’ve suspected for some time that my union would refuse to back me up when (not if) this nonsenses creeps into my life and this video confirms my concerns.
“Institutional capture” is a useful phrase I didn’t know before all this.
@@L_Martin very poignant.
It’s depressing to know that my last resort is a corrupt institution that will not help me in particular circumstances.
Take a look at the Free Speech Union. They will take action to defend their members.
As a white straight working class male, Kathleen Stock is inspirational. She possesses the strength of character and intellectual standards that we should all support. I support everyone's right to be themselves and to express their opinion, in the same way I support the right to criticise and question. As a philosophy graduate I care about " the argument". Kathleen Stock should keep going.
You are two staunch women who I hold in the highest regard. (I wish I could be half as brave as you two)
We need more of you.
We are more of Her ❤️
@@lovesees4320 We are legion!
Well done. Super interview and such a tragedy that a resignation occurred. Now unfettered. Yay.
Tanya Kasafir
Now silenced. Not yay.
@@edwardmclaughlin7935 you what mate?
@@edwardmclaughlin7935 not silenced... Her voice is now much more heard, she's more well known outside of the walls of just academia.
@@KJ-lb4tj
Fair point. I hope she is able to maintain the profile she has right now. Meanwhile, the students she might have influenced are being educated into the mindset that she might have helped them avert.
As a straight, conservative, Christian woman am I allowed to say I’m incredibly encouraged by this conversation?! I appreciate you and respect your courage!
You're allowed to by modern, secular society. St. Paul would have told you to shut up, though.
This is a really great interview, really informative! Keep going Kathleen! This isn't the end, you're a wonderful woman!
A sensible woman in a mad world. Keep going, Kathleen.
Good to see you laughing Kathleen, you will get the last laugh. Tide is turning. More stories coming out now like WiSpa and Loudoun County and finally the BBC is doing some good journalism like the Stephen Nolan podcasts and last week's piece on the bullying of lesbians. And you finally made it on Woman's Hour hooray.
The fact that it had to get to this point is concerning. The tide is definitely turning, but there’s been so many casualties on the way.
Kathleen is misguided.
I wonder how many academics lost their jobs in the days when they didn’t agree with homosexual agenda? It’s a snowball effect, my friends.
Just wish I could agree 'the tide is turning' I really hope you are correct. Students have always talked crap as they lack critical thinking skills at undergrad level. But when that crap it is backed up by adults in the form of academics, this is seriously dangerous. How can academics, as supposed learned people, support ideas that are simply illogical and biologically impossible. Modern radical feminism however is not helping (another view that many believe but few say for fear of similar retribution). We need to get rid of ALL identity based movements and thinking. It is all toxic, victim based, and bound to cause unintended discrimination, and harm in the long run. However - all strength to your arm Kathleen, you have been treated very badly.
@@asmrplushpaws how so?
LGBT and Q people shouldn’t be lumped together as if their issues /motivations /thinking are identical.
I’m Canadian but I hadn’t heard that they were biological males who were trans into the women’s shelter in Vancouver’s Lower East side. I am not at all surprised. We have a woke political class and a woke media in this country. Kathleen Stock is unlikely ever to be interviewed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation or by TV Ontario’s The Agenda. I am grateful to Julie Bindel and UnHerd for giving me a chance to hear the views of this exceptional woman. Good luck to her in the rest of her career.
We need to support the people that speak out and stand up for us.
Leaders in academia, media, government, etc. need to behave like adults and end this charade.
So sorry what you had to go thorugh, Dr Stock
These students should be expelled from their courses with no refund.
isn't it amazing how cautious and careful you have to be even when you're stating the bleedin' obvious