I met a gentleman just before Christmas in a store who was wearing a jacket with his B-17 on it. I struck up a conversation with him and found out he was 102 years old and was the radio operator on a B-17 who flew 25 missions over Germany in World War II. God Bless him.
@mmackenzie3922 just out of curiosity, why would he poop his panties? It's a relevant post, and besides meeting a 102 year old who was more than aware to explain how he was a radio operator on a B17 over Germany in wwii would be a cool experience. Im old enough that my gandfather was a wwii vet. I dont think ive meet another one since he died 13 years ago. I also was stationed in Germany for 2 years. My old girlfriend grandfather was a German Tank Grenader during the war. It was interesting to hear his perspective and he was an interesting man, but still didnt have that cool factor as hearing stories from the old US vets. Chances are if you met a 102 year old German, how many would speak enough English to explain shit. I think your conflating one thing for the other because your probably a nazi fan boy.
My father served 3 years as a RAF navigator in WW2, flew missions every 2/3 days, some sub hunting over the western approaches, some bombing missions at coastal targets in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany. He literally never spoke about the operations, but I found his flight log when I was a 10 year old kid and after reading them I understood never to ask. It takes a toll on everyone involved, and they live with it all their lives. He, his best friend, and my uncle (pilots) used to get together every so often and get literally howling drunk ... After the war, dad never set foot on an aeroplane ever again.
My father served with the British Pacific Fleet basically doing anti-aircraft. He never talked about it either, particularly the kamikazes - and I'm sure that his ship was attacked several times by them. He never really minded going back on a ship though. As long as he didn't have to shoot at anyone.😁
Solange ihr Vater militärische Ziele bombardiert hat, war er ein ehrenwerter Soldat. Es gab aber viele andere bei der RAF die heute als Kriegsverbrecher bezeichnet werden, weil sie Frauen und Kinder in Städten bobardiert haben obwohl sich dort niemals militärische Ziele befanden.
@@andsoiderparound9909 if all gunner positions are fully human controlled like B-17 Simulator well there wouldn't be any skill issues because players doesn't have to fly & shoot at the same time It'd be the Royal Flush incident like in this video
1:52 The Me-109's insignia (the "S" in the white shield) is from JG 26 (JG is Jagdgeschwader, or fighter group). They were one of the few Luftwaffe groups that fought almost exclusively in the West and were generally known as one of the best German fighter groups in the theater. Thanks to their reputation, and maybe a little helping of propaganda, they were one of the most feared Luftwaffe groups.
This is a bit inaccurate. The Me-109G-6 is shown with markings from JG 26/5. However they fly FW-190A's from 1942 and FW-190A-6 on that day. There is a claim by Ofw. Adolf Glunz of JG 26/5. on that day and my records shows he downed the B-17F 42-3229 of 100th BG, 349th BS over Netherland on the way back.
Believe it or not, a Japanese flying boat (!) shot down a B-17 in a "dogfight" on September 8, 1942, in the Solomons. And it was more than just an unsubstantiated claim. The engagement was witnessed by an Australian coast watcher. The B-17, from the 42nd BS, was lost with all crewmembers. It had been on a reconnaissance mission. The Japanese aircraft took only four hits from the American gunners in return.
@@surelyashley5726 I am disappointed by this distortion of history, that's all. Average people these days get their general knowledge often from movies like this, and the portrayal is completely off. Which is sad to me because it could be so much better and so much more.
@@thomaskositzki9424 Here’s what Robert Rosenthal, the pilot who actually flew the B-17 depicted in this scene, had to say about the Munster raid. His pertinent comments begin at the 20:40 mark. But, I guess you know better than the pilot who was ACTUALLY THERE, right asshole?! czcams.com/video/yah_On-uB0A/video.htmlsi=_fXg8Bbw-M6AX7kw
That musical sting when the B17 flew away from the camera revealing it was all alone. Horror movie stuff. The tension, the music... just fantastic. Terrifying when you read up and realise this actually happened.
I knew the history so I knew what was about to happen but it still send shivers down my spine when the scene plays out and the realization hits that the Royal Flush is the only survivor.
Nothing in this show happened as depicted. It is all made-up, phsyically impossible Hollywood-BS. As reference: I am a WW2 histroy nerd from Germany with 30 years into the topic.
@@darkleome5409 not just the music, you can see the pilot splitting the throttle controls to maximize its turn performance, an actual tactic used by some P-38 pilots during the war
I don´t understand why they felt that they had to crank the hollywood dial up to 11 for this show. Really detracts from the overall feel and makes it far lesser than Band of Brothers and even The Pacific.
The most ridiculous scene and yet it actually happened The Pilot's daring way of flyings & gunners certainly saved the plane that day Edit: if you gonna call it fake then please by all means look up B-17 Royal Flush & Rosie Rosenthal before whining that it's fake. It would only serve to make you look like an idiot for everyone else if you don't.
The German bandits are Messerschmitt Bf-109G-6. The one at 2:58 - 'black 7' shows unit markings from JG-26 'Schlagter', a fighter wing assigned to France, not Germany. That's the script 'S' but by 1943 the script 'S' wasn't applied to aircraft as much as it was earlier in the war. The other marking - the cartoon bird - looks like it's from StG-1, a dive bomber unit that would have been on the Eastern Front in 1943..
The USAF had a good plan. Survive 25 combat missions and you go home. Sadly many did not make it home but the 25 mission goal was still achievable for some.
Dafür haben sie auch Frauen und Knder in deutschen Städten bombardiert. Frauen und Kinder die sich nicht wehren konnten. Heute nennt man das ein Kriegsverbrechen.
My dad did 34 missions over Germany. He looked out the window and the B- 24 next to him was hit by Flack. He said the whole side of the plane was blood red.
They are not "Bogeys", but are rather BANDITS. A "bogey" is a plane seen in the distance that has not been verified by pilot or crew as a friend or enemy. A plane in the distance that is ID'd as enemy is called out to others as a "bandit"!
@@Justin-nj4gs I have seen too many mistakes in MOTA clips that make me wonder who they used as technical advisors. I have not even watched a single episode, and probably won't. The reviews have been mixed, anyway. It's kind of disappointing. Even so, some of the scenes look compelling, in spite of the often mediocre CGI.
Once again, millions of dollars spent on a production where the CGI geeks were never once put in a room with pilots of any kind. Not a single pilot reviewed the rough cuts, just a bunch of "looks really good to me" folks. So, we wind up with a 1200lb Wright radial engine and nacelle lazily floating towards the earth like it was part of a styrofoam park flyer that blew up midair.
The entire sky was “a fantastic panorama of black flak bursts, burning and exploding B-17s, spinning and tumbling crazily,” said Lt. William Overstreet, co-pilot of the inaptly named Situation Normal. “It was like flying through an aerial junkyard,” observed a Fortress gunner. - Don Miller, Masters of the Air
@@historyeverday Yeah you might see B-17s in flames (or not) going down, what you wouldn't see is just random assortments of plane parts tumbling down individually.
Fly, fighting fair, it’s the code of the air - Brothers, heroes, foes. Killing machine Honour in the skies B17 Flying home Killing machine Said goodbye to the cross he deserved. He risked his life two times that day To save an unknown enemy Escort to safety, out of the killzone A short salute, then departed
I live in Münster, my parents-in-law were born in the early 30s in Münster, so they remember that Day. They were lucky, because they lived on Farms 10 miles outside of Münster. They told me that they saw Münster burning for two days and then the many refugees from Münster came to the farms. The German Nazi Government was horrible and had to be destroyed, but it’s a shame, the ones that suffer and die are never those responsible for the hatred and killing. Neither the American Bomber Pilots, nor the German Civilians.
I’m an American but man it’s sad to see people never talking about how terrible the Allies were to the German civilians. The govt of my home country is terrible and it has been a very long time since that wasn’t the case, definitely 100+ years. The fire bombing of Dresden can never be justified, it was literally a tactic called terror bombing. I don’t think anyone could point out too many differences between terror bombing and “modern” terrorism
100th was bottom rear left of the formation so that’s probably 390th the other group (im blanking on which group) was middle right and 390th was top front
Entire show is just unrealistic Hollywood-BS. Sadly. I had high hopes. With modern CGI and the extreme advancement in historical research this could have been "Memphis Belle" on steroids.
@@justinschrank4806 I dislike the show for being unrealistic. Posted this under my own comment when I was asked, I spare you the search. 01:09 "Boogies, five o'clock, high." as in "Unknown aircraft, 5 o'clock position, higher than us" should be "Bandits, six o'clock, level." as in "Enemy fighters, 6 o'clock position, same altitude as us.". The next scene clearly shows that the latter callout is correct. "Bandits" is a given when you see single-engined fighters on attack vector. That is a no-brainer to research, seriously. Five minutes on Google. 01:13 Multiple issues: 1.) The Bf 109s turn in for their attack almost/already withing 500 meters. That is extremely risky for the Germans and every pilot knew that. They are deep within 50 cal. range and their sights were zeroed in for 500m. Deadliest place to be for a German fighter. They wouldn't do such a stupid mistake when they have easy prey like a lone B-17 without escort fighters. Under pressure when you have no time for a perfect run, maybe. But not when they have a straggler all by themselves. There they would maximize their safety and minimize the bombers chances. 2:) Also they wouldn't attack in level flight. US gunners were no joke so you wanted to get in, place a deadly burst of cannon fire and GTFO. The way to do that would be by doing a shallow dive. Or not attack from behind in the first place! The whole setup is questionable. Also turning in just before your gun run is stupid. Your plane is slower than it should be due to the drag from turning. To make matters worse, you have to aling your crosshairs (which can be harder than one might think) basically when already in firing distance and whilst being shot at. 3.) What is the wingman (Katschmarek in German) doing 30m behind his leader other than forcing a collision??? In a combat situation the distance should be around 300m for safety in sharp maneuvres, felxibility in combat and in this case for him to have a clear shot. This way he is a useless hazard to his leader.
Yes, to much CGI, too fast. They fly like angry wasps. However, MOTA must appeal to audiences who don't understand anything about air combat over Europe during 1943. And that is 99.9% of those who watch these series. Actually, really terrifying are not the MOTA cartoons but the real Luftwaffe combat cameras that you can easily find on YT.
@@Recon59 from the cockpit point of view it always feels like UFO Go watch DCS from Growling Sidewinder & you'll understand it Also the planes are all flying with the German basic tactics called Boom & Zoom. They dart straight ahead without making any unnecessary turns like actual darts, arrows, bullets and when they fly past the target is when they turn around gaining speed and zoom to the enemies again Don't criticize what you don't know
@@guts-141 So, I don't know. Right. Interesting words from a PC gamer. I'm a civilian pilot and a WW2 air combat history buff. So I don't judge after playing with toy joystick and peddals in front of my desk. Those german fighters fly in a totally unnatural way. After the last episode I've spoken with one of my best friends, currently a captain in medium range airliners and former instructor (about 5.000 hrs) on Aermacchi and G-91 fighters and fighter bombers. And yes, he totally agreed with me. Besides, that was not B&Zing, those were mainly Head-On attacks. Enjoy your gaming! Practice, practice, practice! LOL
@@Recon59understandable if a guy who only play with Planes would never get to fly for real. Since you're "the expert" I might as well stop replying to you mr. "Oh I know everything by experience of a civilian"
@@guts-141 Look, no, I don't know everything but I was fortunate enough to own a civilian airplane and accumulate many hours of flight time, attend numerous air shows with simulated fights between WWII fighters, fly a two-seater P-51D in Wanaka (NZ), doing all the BFMs allowed (from hammer-head to barrel-roll) and finally buzzing the tower, and interview for hours one of the Macchi C.202 Italian aces with victories over North Africa (he met Hans J. Marseille, who crashed his C.202 after a test flight). I am reasonably sure that, given the combined sum of the speeds, from the cockpit of a B-17 the German fighters could resemble bullets whizzing between the bombers. But I am equally reasonably sure that an FW190A or a Bf109G at those speeds could not do unnatural, cartoonish maneuvers so violent (barrel-rolls, criss-crossing each other, crazy-G maneuvers, etc.), so close to each other, as those constructed with CGI. In all the reports read the German fighters, after having a few seconds to fire, would dart between the B-17s and then disengage, descending or more rarely ascending. And they almost never had time to reposition for a subsequent head-on attack, which takes a very long time. And this cartoonish way of representing maneuvers has happened in other films like Pearl Harbor or Midway, for example. And it's a shame because other things in MOTA are very good. Anyway, I'm sorry if my words were too harsh.
I've always wondered what these battles might look like as seen by civilians on the ground, with all these shells and bullets falling everywhere, the pieces of planes falling like rain...
Yes it was maneuverable! The biography of the pilot who flew the Memphis Belle more than any other states that on a bond tour of the U.S. he turned the Belle on it's wing and flew between the tall buildings of (I think) Tulsa or Ok City!
I just laugh out loud at how in _every single Hollywood production_ involving fighter pilots (or bomber crew as in this case) they always at some point pull their masks off in flight, so that the audience can clearly see the actors' faces. It's so predictable.
In the book this show draws from, Rosie literally dives his B-17F to 10,000 ft specifically so the crew can breathe on atmosphere. Given that the 100th started from the low-low at 15,000 ft this dive was easy to do. Predictably, you've just misattributed something that literally happened in real life, attributing it to Hollywood shenanigans because you're looking for an excuse to hate a show. It's not real life. It's a show. it has to entertain as well as teach.
Can a B-17, probably loaded with bombs, perform aerial stunts like in this scene? It looks like it has the maneuverability of a heavy fighter rather than a heavy bomber.
@@panzerjamnik4540 No, not even close. The B17 is going to be slower, have more drag, and overall a sluggish response. A fighter could turn inside of its turning radius all day long which is one of the hallmarks of dogfighting. The B17 was built to lug bombs not dogfight. That means it was built for strength and stability. Fighters are more unstable by comparison (though we prefer to call it nimble). The B17 could shed altitude for speed and run hoping a fighter would give up the chase but it did not have the responsiveness to reliably maneuver in a dogfight. Which is why they clustered up in formations and relied on putting up a wall of gunfire, or they ran.
How come 4 Bf109 cant take down a single b17 out of formation? Either those german pilots are my teammates from warthunder or they are flying blind while having a stroke. Thanks Hollwood btw my comment was deleted 3 times in a row, while typing exactly that... thx america again.
Been there done that. We flew Spitfires out of Biggin Hill just south of London. Maximum downward speed was 353 knots and the wings held to the airframe with only 7 bolts. Pushed the limit a few times. Never broke. Putin and Russia terrify me. They are doing exactly what the Germans we fought and the Japanese did in the 1930’s folks. I fear we are repeating the same old mistakes. 500,000+ war dead on European soil in the biggest war since WWII and nobody is listening. 🇬🇧
why is putin invading Ukraine which has literal nazi divisions? Never seem to ask yourself that? We endured the japanese, but when you brits came back, things only became slightly better, we remember when you shot at civilains whom you accuse are communist, we appealed to the Crown only to be told to eff off because Britain makes no mistakes even when they do apparently.
The scene seems imprecise, fighters were almost always a huge problem, especially for an unaccompanied fortress, perhaps in the last months of the war we can put amateur Luftwaffe pilots, since at the end of the war most of the pilots had no experience at all
what was that fighter shooting at if he was level with the cockpit of the bomber ?!? Also my granddad was in iceland making the runways for the bobers to come acrossthe atlantic.
The CGI is a little strange, with the plane parts falling like in a dream. The real scene would have wildly tumbling stuff. Nice effect, though, if unreal.
@@ML-ev3ksaccording to Donald Caldwell's JG26 history, those attacking were FW190A of I/JG26 and not Bf109G. Anyway, it took about seven minutes to wipe out the 100th BG from the sky.
The 9. Staffel JG26 uses Bf 109 G6 at this time. The problem is the insignia are from the 5. Staffel and a C3 marking for fuel because the G6 uses the B4 fuel.
Мне нравится фильмы про войну, я не ищу информацию о секундном залпе авиапушек, не смотрю на закрылки во время виража, не ищу реализмс и тут,, просто наслаждвюсь всей картиной в целом.
@@ClayMcc-wq7vz The CGI isn't even THAT bad imo. People also complain that this is "Hollywood BS" similar to the infamous impossible maneuver from Red Tails, which is just utterly ridiculous because from what I can see, everything here is plausible to have happened.
Escenas épicas, pero es inverosimil que 2 BF's no destrocen ese B17... pero más inverosimil es que ese B17 no tenga escolta. Es como tener una pistola sin balas para defenderte. No funcionaba así, pero supongo que funciona para un guión.
Any maneuver both reduces the stability of the platform the gunners are shooting from and creates a new variable when trying to aim. Heck it risks injuring the crew or even ejecting them from the plane, and even basic maneuvers risk tearing the plane apart. It's not the answer, and not the reason the gunners were ineffective. What I like about these scene, and what I think they are trying to convey, is just how extraordinary it was that they managed to do this and survive the encounter. It's gotta be a perfect storm of luck, pilot/gunner skill, and fatal mistakes on the German side.
@@steriskyline4470 This scene actually happened. They were the only bomber left from the 100th, they had already dropped their bombs and they had fallen behind the rest of the group. Combat box was the standard formation for mutual defense and bombing concentration, but its kind of hard to have a formation with only one aircraft.
I belive that the B17 was a match for all fighters in WW2 in a dogfight ..... one even shot down 20,000 spitfires in one mission by mistake .... this is so factual im impressed !!!
I dont watch ww2 series or movies for some action and stats of everything related in the military,i watch it because its history what our grandfathers done during the war,truly difficult times,then they will tell you if they were still alive this day you are lucky you were born in a era where you can enjoy life,the bloody hundreth bomb group is a true story of heroism,saw some documentary,interview and do some research.
Good scene but the music really takes away some of the suspense. Band of brothers never had music during their action sequences and really made the scene more suspenseful.
@@thesmirkingwolf it’s not? Lol, you don’t say…. Then what should I compare it to? Naked Gun?…. You know, when there is a quality war movie or series and it sets the bar for accuracy and quality, you inevitably compare others to it….
I agree 100%. I started watching band of brothers again last night. As far as writing, character development, cinematograph etc. Band of Brothers puts this show to shame.
I could only see parts of the series. I think it's a shame that you only see the Allied view. I would be interested in the German Air Force. How to deal with being so crushed.
Just starting to read the Book version of this Film some 500 odd pages long..no Hollywood stuff there just the real story of the Eighth Airforce & the people during WW2
No creo que pase, los pilotos alemanes sabian lo que hacian y lo que estaban defendiendo, es muy difícil justificar sus acciones y es muy difícil hacer una serie con asesinos reales como protagonistas.
@@hexpert6043 Una gran mayoría si, no porque mataran, eso lo hacían todos, sino porque lo hacian, los alemanes ya sabian que su gobierno estaban invadiendo países que no eran suyos sin justificación, si tu gobierno está haciendo eso, lo logico es no luchar o buscar vias para escapar, lo del genocidio si era mas secreto y no todos los soldados sabían.
I met a gentleman just before Christmas in a store who was wearing a jacket with his B-17 on it. I struck up a conversation with him and found out he was 102 years old and was the radio operator on a B-17 who flew 25 missions over Germany in World War II. God Bless him.
dios lo bendiga porque
@mmackenzie3922 just out of curiosity, why would he poop his panties? It's a relevant post, and besides meeting a 102 year old who was more than aware to explain how he was a radio operator on a B17 over Germany in wwii would be a cool experience. Im old enough that my gandfather was a wwii vet. I dont think ive meet another one since he died 13 years ago. I also was stationed in Germany for 2 years. My old girlfriend grandfather was a German Tank Grenader during the war. It was interesting to hear his perspective and he was an interesting man, but still didnt have that cool factor as hearing stories from the old US vets. Chances are if you met a 102 year old German, how many would speak enough English to explain shit. I think your conflating one thing for the other because your probably a nazi fan boy.
Won't be long before we don't have any stories like these left
@@mmackenzie3922 dude, the cognitive dissonance is strong with you... Good luck in life...
@@mmackenzie3922no I would call him a Nazi
My father served 3 years as a RAF navigator in WW2, flew missions every 2/3 days, some sub hunting over the western approaches, some bombing missions at coastal targets in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany. He literally never spoke about the operations, but I found his flight log when I was a 10 year old kid and after reading them I understood never to ask. It takes a toll on everyone involved, and they live with it all their lives. He, his best friend, and my uncle (pilots) used to get together every so often and get literally howling drunk ... After the war, dad never set foot on an aeroplane ever again.
My father served with the British Pacific Fleet basically doing anti-aircraft. He never talked about it either, particularly the kamikazes - and I'm sure that his ship was attacked several times by them. He never really minded going back on a ship though. As long as he didn't have to shoot at anyone.😁
andrew and bob I appreciate the work of your family
Solange ihr Vater militärische Ziele bombardiert hat, war er ein ehrenwerter Soldat. Es gab aber viele andere bei der RAF die heute als Kriegsverbrecher bezeichnet werden, weil sie Frauen und Kinder in Städten bobardiert haben obwohl sich dort niemals militärische Ziele befanden.
If only my gunners in War Thunder were this competent without bitching to me "TARGET IN DEADZONE"
Damn War Thunder kept nerfing them
Skill issue
@@andsoiderparound9909 if all gunner positions are fully human controlled like B-17 Simulator well there wouldn't be any skill issues because players doesn't have to fly & shoot at the same time
It'd be the Royal Flush incident like in this video
@@guts-141did it back in aces high 2. Skill issue lol jk
@@guts-141 That just makes the situation even worse cause now you have to trust the player on that position to have good aim.
Rosenthal poured his frustration and rage for losing most of his group into those maneuvers. What an absolute legend.
Robert Rosenthal was such a monster in his B17. This show is great but only touches on a small portion of Rosie’s 52 Missions.
My favorite scene in the entire series. Rosenthal was a badass
This is how we bomber mains explain warthunder. We’ve all had at least one game like this, where our gunners defied the odds
If only war thunder was a better game 😔
@@Bucketnate It actually did happen historically.
This was the hypest shit, and the whole episode felt more like a horror film.
It was a horror for the innocent men and women these boys were tricked into firebombing.
@@tankfist2593k
@@tankfist2593 You mean citizens of German's cities were "innocent men and women" ?
@@tankfist2593Cope
@@mmackenzie3922"ACKSHUALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYY"
1:52 The Me-109's insignia (the "S" in the white shield) is from JG 26 (JG is Jagdgeschwader, or fighter group). They were one of the few Luftwaffe groups that fought almost exclusively in the West and were generally known as one of the best German fighter groups in the theater. Thanks to their reputation, and maybe a little helping of propaganda, they were one of the most feared Luftwaffe groups.
Jg 2 was the other
This is a bit inaccurate. The Me-109G-6 is shown with markings from JG 26/5. However they fly FW-190A's from 1942 and FW-190A-6 on that day. There is a claim by Ofw. Adolf Glunz of JG 26/5. on that day and my records shows he downed the B-17F 42-3229 of 100th BG, 349th BS over Netherland on the way back.
Imagine losing a dogfight to a b17
Believe it or not, a Japanese flying boat (!) shot down a B-17 in a "dogfight" on September 8, 1942, in the Solomons. And it was more than just an unsubstantiated claim. The engagement was witnessed by an Australian coast watcher. The B-17, from the 42nd BS, was lost with all crewmembers. It had been on a reconnaissance mission. The Japanese aircraft took only four hits from the American gunners in return.
Check out the story of a B-17 called "Old 666" that did dogfight several Zeroes.
You sound salty@@thomaskositzki9424
@@surelyashley5726 I am disappointed by this distortion of history, that's all. Average people these days get their general knowledge often from movies like this, and the portrayal is completely off. Which is sad to me because it could be so much better and so much more.
@@thomaskositzki9424
Here’s what Robert Rosenthal, the pilot who actually flew the B-17 depicted in this scene, had to say about the Munster raid.
His pertinent comments begin at the 20:40 mark.
But, I guess you know better than the pilot who was ACTUALLY THERE, right asshole?!
czcams.com/video/yah_On-uB0A/video.htmlsi=_fXg8Bbw-M6AX7kw
The Focker Wulf was really the nightmare. The Fw 190 A-0/U-3 series with two 20mm cannons and four 7.92mm guns.
That musical sting when the B17 flew away from the camera revealing it was all alone. Horror movie stuff.
The tension, the music... just fantastic.
Terrifying when you read up and realise this actually happened.
I knew the history so I knew what was about to happen but it still send shivers down my spine when the scene plays out and the realization hits that the Royal Flush is the only survivor.
ive been trying to find the score so goddamn bad
Nothing in this show happened as depicted. It is all made-up, phsyically impossible Hollywood-BS.
As reference: I am a WW2 histroy nerd from Germany with 30 years into the topic.
Ooooh so spooky
The point was already driven home when chunks of potentially dozens of allied fuselages were raining like falling feathers around the plane. ._.
2:05 "SPLITING THE THROTTLES!"
Yeah, the music is really similar to Top Gun Maverick sometimes. Not complaining, aerial battles should have a definitive soundtrack
@@darkleome5409 not just the music, you can see the pilot splitting the throttle controls to maximize its turn performance, an actual tactic used by some P-38 pilots during the war
‘Everyone knows the B-17 was a formidable dogfighter’. Hollywood writers probably.
Hey village people try reading about Old 666
I don´t understand why they felt that they had to crank the hollywood dial up to 11 for this show.
Really detracts from the overall feel and makes it far lesser than Band of Brothers and even The Pacific.
@@BestShiftywhere exactly are the Hollywood elements in this show, this is just one scene, and it’s still plausible
@@ryanserdan4267 "Still plausible" I don't even know what to say to this guy...
@@mono9702 can you explain what isn’t plausible?
"I know a few maneuvers, we'll lose them"
Don't get cocky kid
@@pan2aja Or you'll find yourself floating home...
Lazily listing to the left?
@@swgeek4310Where they go? There they are! They are listing lazily to the left! Go left!
I’m right behind you Red Three
The most ridiculous scene and yet it actually happened
The Pilot's daring way of flyings & gunners certainly saved the plane that day
Edit: if you gonna call it fake then please by all means look up B-17 Royal Flush & Rosie Rosenthal before whining that it's fake. It would only serve to make you look like an idiot for everyone else if you don't.
The crew of Old 666 did crazier moves in real life.
Definitly not like this unrealistic fast paced and strange Plane behaviour dogfight.
I called BS too until I found out it happen in real life. Tail Gunner was credited with six kills
@@DJCREEDHDSQ - Except the show toned it down, because what happened in real life was even crazier.
@@amirsafwan8491 yeah Old 666 did much crazier things but these guys are the Royal Flush
The German bandits are Messerschmitt Bf-109G-6. The one at 2:58 - 'black 7' shows unit markings from JG-26 'Schlagter', a fighter wing assigned to France, not Germany. That's the script 'S' but by 1943 the script 'S' wasn't applied to aircraft as much as it was earlier in the war.
The other marking - the cartoon bird - looks like it's from StG-1, a dive bomber unit that would have been on the Eastern Front in 1943..
Do you mean the 109 at around 1:53?
Yea strange how they researched so much but dropped a clanger with a luftwaffe unit, LAZY
@@stephenperry5763 Most US movies and shows do that. They just add some random Luftwaffe markings on the planes and "yup, looks good enough".
1:53 if you stop it the Messerschmitt pilot is looking directly at the B-17 Captain as he flys by. I find that quite amazing for CGI.
Bros were NOT letting that 109 get away
The USAF had a good plan. Survive 25 combat missions and you go home. Sadly many did not make it home but the 25 mission goal was still achievable for some.
Yeah and spoilers for later in the season about that 25 number...
Dafür haben sie auch Frauen und Knder in deutschen Städten bombardiert. Frauen und Kinder die sich nicht wehren konnten. Heute nennt man das ein Kriegsverbrechen.
GREAT miniseries, episode 5 the best yet. I'd fly with that pilot any day. You just might have a chance getting home
My dad did 34 missions over Germany. He looked out the window and the B- 24 next to him was hit by Flack. He said the whole side of the plane was blood red.
Flak
Waist gunners had the highest mortality rate.
they should have done this altered cobra maneuver as they did in red tails, but only with the b17. that would be less realistic but more enternaining.
🤣
I had a round of warthunder like this once. Except is was my lone he111 vs 2 gladiators and a hurricane
Ah, playing games 😂
They are not "Bogeys", but are rather BANDITS. A "bogey" is a plane seen in the distance that has not been verified by pilot or crew as a friend or enemy. A plane in the distance that is ID'd as enemy is called out to others as a "bandit"!
You are right they were in fact called bandits and Me 262s were Jet Bandits.
@@Justin-nj4gs I have seen too many mistakes in MOTA clips that make me wonder who they used as technical advisors. I have not even watched a single episode, and probably won't. The reviews have been mixed, anyway. It's kind of disappointing. Even so, some of the scenes look compelling, in spite of the often mediocre CGI.
there's also a B-17 doing BFM in this clip lmao
You’re a DCS player aren’t you?? Lol
Idk why they don't use the term "bandit" in this series
Once again, millions of dollars spent on a production where the CGI geeks were never once put in a room with pilots of any kind. Not a single pilot reviewed the rough cuts, just a bunch of "looks really good to me" folks. So, we wind up with a 1200lb Wright radial engine and nacelle lazily floating towards the earth like it was part of a styrofoam park flyer that blew up midair.
I hate when Visual FX teams are led by a multiple Oscar winner. The worst!
The entire sky was “a fantastic panorama of black flak bursts, burning and exploding B-17s, spinning and tumbling crazily,” said Lt. William Overstreet, co-pilot of the inaptly named Situation Normal.
“It was like flying through an aerial junkyard,” observed a Fortress gunner.
- Don Miller, Masters of the Air
@@historyeverday Yeah you might see B-17s in flames (or not) going down, what you wouldn't see is just random assortments of plane parts tumbling down individually.
@@historyeverday No problem with a combat sky exploding every direction. Just didn’t buy heavy chunks of aircraft defying gravity.
@@nicholaslellenberg3963 Modern Hollyweird awards are meaningless.
Fly, fighting fair, it’s the code of the air -
Brothers, heroes, foes.
Killing machine
Honour in the skies
B17
Flying home
Killing machine
Said goodbye to the cross he deserved.
He risked his life two times that day
To save an unknown enemy
Escort to safety, out of the killzone
A short salute, then departed
Parts flying down like it is in the water
When a Bomber became a Fighter. Such a badass scene!
Está es la mejor escena de toda la serie, muy buena.
I live in Münster, my parents-in-law were born in the early 30s in Münster, so they remember that Day.
They were lucky, because they lived on Farms 10 miles outside of Münster.
They told me that they saw Münster burning for two days and then the many refugees from Münster came to the farms.
The German Nazi Government was horrible and had to be destroyed, but it’s a shame, the ones that suffer and die are never those responsible for the hatred and killing.
Neither the American Bomber Pilots, nor the German Civilians.
that goes for pretty much every war. which is why i hate war so much. a very very low part of our existence.
I’m an American but man it’s sad to see people never talking about how terrible the Allies were to the German civilians. The govt of my home country is terrible and it has been a very long time since that wasn’t the case, definitely 100+ years. The fire bombing of Dresden can never be justified, it was literally a tactic called terror bombing. I don’t think anyone could point out too many differences between terror bombing and “modern” terrorism
Can anyone tell me what is that in front of them at 0:32? Is that the other flying fortress?
yes. I believe that was the 390th bomb group that lead the wing on that mission.
Yes
100th was bottom rear left of the formation so that’s probably 390th the other group (im blanking on which group) was middle right and 390th was top front
The Bf109 slow mo really shows the CGI, also the gunners don’t seem to lead properly but still score direct hits
Entire show is just unrealistic Hollywood-BS.
Sadly. I had high hopes. With modern CGI and the extreme advancement in historical research this could have been "Memphis Belle" on steroids.
People don't understand lead. They would think it was bad filming.
Total bullshit comment. The show is absolutely incredible.
@@justinschrank4806 I dislike the show for being unrealistic.
Posted this under my own comment when I was asked, I spare you the search.
01:09 "Boogies, five o'clock, high." as in "Unknown aircraft, 5 o'clock position, higher than us" should be "Bandits, six o'clock, level." as in "Enemy fighters, 6 o'clock position, same altitude as us.". The next scene clearly shows that the latter callout is correct. "Bandits" is a given when you see single-engined fighters on attack vector. That is a no-brainer to research, seriously. Five minutes on Google.
01:13 Multiple issues:
1.) The Bf 109s turn in for their attack almost/already withing 500 meters. That is extremely risky for the Germans and every pilot knew that. They are deep within 50 cal. range and their sights were zeroed in for 500m. Deadliest place to be for a German fighter. They wouldn't do such a stupid mistake when they have easy prey like a lone B-17 without escort fighters. Under pressure when you have no time for a perfect run, maybe. But not when they have a straggler all by themselves. There they would maximize their safety and minimize the bombers chances.
2:) Also they wouldn't attack in level flight. US gunners were no joke so you wanted to get in, place a deadly burst of cannon fire and GTFO. The way to do that would be by doing a shallow dive. Or not attack from behind in the first place! The whole setup is questionable. Also turning in just before your gun run is stupid. Your plane is slower than it should be due to the drag from turning. To make matters worse, you have to aling your crosshairs (which can be harder than one might think) basically when already in firing distance and whilst being shot at.
3.) What is the wingman (Katschmarek in German) doing 30m behind his leader other than forcing a collision??? In a combat situation the distance should be around 300m for safety in sharp maneuvres, felxibility in combat and in this case for him to have a clear shot. This way he is a useless hazard to his leader.
@thomaskositzki9424 You just can't satisfy people
WOW, so many Brave MEN in the Crews. Like how they act like a fighter then a B-17
What?
Planes flying around like UFOs
Yes, to much CGI, too fast. They fly like angry wasps. However, MOTA must appeal to audiences who don't understand anything about air combat over Europe during 1943. And that is 99.9% of those who watch these series. Actually, really terrifying are not the MOTA cartoons but the real Luftwaffe combat cameras that you can easily find on YT.
@@Recon59 from the cockpit point of view it always feels like UFO
Go watch DCS from Growling Sidewinder & you'll understand it
Also the planes are all flying with the German basic tactics called Boom & Zoom. They dart straight ahead without making any unnecessary turns like actual darts, arrows, bullets and when they fly past the target is when they turn around gaining speed and zoom to the enemies again
Don't criticize what you don't know
@@guts-141 So, I don't know. Right. Interesting words from a PC gamer. I'm a civilian pilot and a WW2 air combat history buff. So I don't judge after playing with toy joystick and peddals in front of my desk. Those german fighters fly in a totally unnatural way. After the last episode I've spoken with one of my best friends, currently a captain in medium range airliners and former instructor (about 5.000 hrs) on Aermacchi and G-91 fighters and fighter bombers. And yes, he totally agreed with me. Besides, that was not B&Zing, those were mainly Head-On attacks. Enjoy your gaming! Practice, practice, practice! LOL
@@Recon59understandable if a guy who only play with Planes would never get to fly for real. Since you're "the expert" I might as well stop replying to you mr. "Oh I know everything by experience of a civilian"
@@guts-141 Look, no, I don't know everything but I was fortunate enough to own a civilian airplane and accumulate many hours of flight time, attend numerous air shows with simulated fights between WWII fighters, fly a two-seater P-51D in Wanaka (NZ), doing all the BFMs allowed (from hammer-head to barrel-roll) and finally buzzing the tower, and interview for hours one of the Macchi C.202 Italian aces with victories over North Africa (he met Hans J. Marseille, who crashed his C.202 after a test flight).
I am reasonably sure that, given the combined sum of the speeds, from the cockpit of a B-17 the German fighters could resemble bullets whizzing between the bombers. But I am equally reasonably sure that an FW190A or a Bf109G at those speeds could not do unnatural, cartoonish maneuvers so violent (barrel-rolls, criss-crossing each other, crazy-G maneuvers, etc.), so close to each other, as those constructed with CGI. In all the reports read the German fighters, after having a few seconds to fire, would dart between the B-17s and then disengage, descending or more rarely ascending. And they almost never had time to reposition for a subsequent head-on attack, which takes a very long time. And this cartoonish way of representing maneuvers has happened in other films like Pearl Harbor or Midway, for example.
And it's a shame because other things in MOTA are very good. Anyway, I'm sorry if my words were too harsh.
Fall down seven times stand up 8..it really is that simple
Screw Marvel. These guys are real flying superheroes.
Came here to see the nitpickers tear up this clip.
ok dog.
grow up ,silly , not real game .
Ok thats the first time ive seen a b 17 dogfight
Lol well that’s what the guns are for ain’t it
I've always wondered what these battles might look like as seen by civilians on the ground, with all these shells and bullets falling everywhere, the pieces of planes falling like rain...
Yeah
It looks like a cartoon. That CGI is ridiculous!
A CMH was given to a B17 pilot who flew his plane in such a way as to give his gunners accurate fire against multiple Zero attacks!
czcams.com/video/zePNRTs9zSk/video.html. 19 minutes in.
it's MOH. Congressional is a misnomer
Artie Shaw - The Chant
If you weren't in a Box, the 17 was quite maneuverable. Enough? well? that depends, now doesn't it ...
Yes it was maneuverable! The biography of the pilot who flew the Memphis Belle more than any other states that on a bond tour of the U.S. he turned the Belle on it's wing and flew between the tall buildings of (I think) Tulsa or Ok City!
thats a leader
Good aviation movies like "Battle of England" we had in '60. Today with all that possibilities we have shit like this.
Yes and ''memphis belll'' too.. better than this....
@parisnormal1872 that's what i thought.
I just laugh out loud at how in _every single Hollywood production_ involving fighter pilots (or bomber crew as in this case) they always at some point pull their masks off in flight, so that the audience can clearly see the actors' faces. It's so predictable.
it was 5 seconds bro chill
The idea is to show a character...and promote the actor...duh.
And so they can't breathe... suspension of disbelief gone.
In the book this show draws from, Rosie literally dives his B-17F to 10,000 ft specifically so the crew can breathe on atmosphere. Given that the 100th started from the low-low at 15,000 ft this dive was easy to do. Predictably, you've just misattributed something that literally happened in real life, attributing it to Hollywood shenanigans because you're looking for an excuse to hate a show. It's not real life. It's a show. it has to entertain as well as teach.
10 seconds and they're unconscious.
00:01 thought that was somethin from starwars (left of the gun)
All I can say is "bruh". Red Tails 2.
Lmao 😂
パイロットをしている時、 雲の上で真正面から来た飛行機と間近ですれ違った事があるが、この映画のBf109がすれ違った時の様に一瞬スローモーションに見え、ゆっくり回るプロペラと操縦士の顔が記憶に残っている。 この映像はリアルな体験を再現していると思う。
少し違いますが、私もバス事故と自動車爆破の近くで同じような経験をしました。 このような状況で同じような経験をした人がいるのを聞いたことがあります。 テレビ番組のディレクターもそれを非常にうまく描いていると感じました。
何故か『Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade』で、複葉機でナチスから逃げる時ヘンリー(パパ)が後座の機銃で自機の尾翼を吹っ飛ばしてしまうシーンを思い出した。
Fahr zur Hölle Ami !
Can a B-17, probably loaded with bombs, perform aerial stunts like in this scene? It looks like it has the maneuverability of a heavy fighter rather than a heavy bomber.
Yes, it can….. but the pilot needs to absolutely know what they are doing.
This one was empty - it was returning from bombing a German railway junction.
So the B-17 was as maneuverable as a fighter after dropping its bombs?
@@panzerjamnik4540 No, not even close. The B17 is going to be slower, have more drag, and overall a sluggish response. A fighter could turn inside of its turning radius all day long which is one of the hallmarks of dogfighting. The B17 was built to lug bombs not dogfight. That means it was built for strength and stability. Fighters are more unstable by comparison (though we prefer to call it nimble). The B17 could shed altitude for speed and run hoping a fighter would give up the chase but it did not have the responsiveness to reliably maneuver in a dogfight. Which is why they clustered up in formations and relied on putting up a wall of gunfire, or they ran.
Were these B-17 air maneuvers real?
Jets and they haven’t come in at this part of the show yet
Что за фильм?
a scene from Me 262 please
Slow motion shot was the dumbest thing they could do in this series. And they did it.
How?
My Father was shot down over Germany in a B-24D. Was a POW for 1 1/2 years!
How come 4 Bf109 cant take down a single b17 out of formation? Either those german pilots are my teammates from warthunder or they are flying blind while having a stroke. Thanks Hollwood
btw my comment was deleted 3 times in a row, while typing exactly that... thx america again.
Been there done that. We flew Spitfires out of Biggin Hill just south of London. Maximum downward speed was 353 knots and the wings held to the airframe with only 7 bolts. Pushed the limit a few times. Never broke.
Putin and Russia terrify me. They are doing exactly what the Germans we fought and the Japanese did in the 1930’s folks. I fear we are repeating the same old mistakes. 500,000+ war dead on European soil in the biggest war since WWII and nobody is listening.
🇬🇧
why is putin invading Ukraine which has literal nazi divisions? Never seem to ask yourself that? We endured the japanese, but when you brits came back, things only became slightly better, we remember when you shot at civilains whom you accuse are communist, we appealed to the Crown only to be told to eff off because Britain makes no mistakes even when they do apparently.
so youre 103 years old? or did you also flew in WWI?
It's not russian. It is US and neocons. All are terrified because of these weasels. God bless you. Get some air
@@DoppelBro He was also Luke's wingman when the Death Star went down. True story...
@@joshuachong6438 Putin is invading because he wants the land and resources.
Let me guess, the B17 pilot brother serves in a tank named Fury ?
The scene seems imprecise, fighters were almost always a huge problem, especially for an unaccompanied fortress, perhaps in the last months of the war we can put amateur Luftwaffe pilots, since at the end of the war most of the pilots had no experience at all
it did heppen though, b-17 "royal flush" look it up
i thought red tails was awfull
Again a opinion related comment
This is why the P-51 was developed.
This was an epic scene.
So over the top it was dumb
Esiste il film in italiano?
what was that fighter shooting at if he was level with the cockpit of the bomber ?!?
Also my granddad was in iceland making the runways for the bobers to come acrossthe atlantic.
Props to the pilot who bought a flying fortress to a dogfight lmao
... brought*
JG-26 Schlageter. Looks like a G-6????
This is late 1943 so yes, probably a G-6
The markings on the 109’s dont make any sense
But they dumped the crow by 1940
Stg1 picked it up for there stukas during the battle of britain period but with a yellow beak
@@stephenperry5763Right
Indeed they did!@@stephenperry5763
superb; beyond reprouch.
The CGI is a little strange, with the plane parts falling like in a dream. The real scene would have wildly tumbling stuff. Nice effect, though, if unreal.
Can the bomber pilot/crew become an ace/aces if they shoot down 5 planes? Does anyone know how that works.
Individual gunners can, and did.
Fighting for the bankers never looked so noble.
Want to elaborate?
@geGecko Better put on your boots if he does so you don't step in the BS.
Well, you are telling us you aren't Jewish, or African, or Middle Eastern, or Latino...
In real life as in the Battle of Britain the shot down defending fighter pilots were dusted off and given a new plane.
My continuation, less and less experienced pilots. In some cases, airplanes were pulled by horses to save fuel.
That Bf109G-6(?) has the markings of 5 Staffel, JG26.
just had same toughts
@@ML-ev3ksaccording to Donald Caldwell's JG26 history, those attacking were FW190A of I/JG26 and not Bf109G. Anyway, it took about seven minutes to wipe out the 100th BG from the sky.
ok
@@Recon59 Also during that period the JG-26 did not paint the emblems on the fw190 and bf109
Galland himself
that's JG26 Insignia, they didn't fly 109s in that unit just 190s
but thats mega nerd stuff to be noticing that
The 9. Staffel JG26 uses Bf 109 G6 at this time. The problem is the insignia are from the 5. Staffel and a C3 marking for fuel because the G6 uses the B4 fuel.
Мне нравится фильмы про войну, я не ищу информацию о секундном залпе авиапушек, не смотрю на закрылки во время виража, не ищу реализмс и тут,, просто наслаждвюсь всей картиной в целом.
Funny, is it made with Warthunder engine?
When i see how fast the B17 is maneuvering i would guess for War Thunder Arcade.
The people complaining have nothing better to do, and 3/4 of them can't even point out the historical inaccuracies that they're speaking of
The only thing that I've seen is them complaining about the cgi it's so annoying
@@ClayMcc-wq7vz The CGI isn't even THAT bad imo. People also complain that this is "Hollywood BS" similar to the infamous impossible maneuver from Red Tails, which is just utterly ridiculous because from what I can see, everything here is plausible to have happened.
@@m4_sherman no one asked for your opinion/ shut up/ skill issues/ father left at birth/no life/ hates everything/emo
@@m4_sherman stop complaining
Wait shit nvm I didn't read your comment properly man I'm stupid my bad
Wtf is this unrealistic thing that the bomber flies like a fighter
if you actually think fighters fly like that then your commenting privileges should be revoked
Holy crap .. fu***ng Hanks made a movie about war thunder reading all this .. and his pi55 fit right into fantasy world ... nothing else
Escenas épicas, pero es inverosimil que 2 BF's no destrocen ese B17... pero más inverosimil es que ese B17 no tenga escolta. Es como tener una pistola sin balas para defenderte. No funcionaba así, pero supongo que funciona para un guión.
SI UNA BASURA.....
No, en esa misión si hay escoltas pero son spitfire estos se quedan si combustible y regresan
This shows how effective the B-17 could be when it was actually using all three axes of flight.
shure...In CGI no problem
Any maneuver both reduces the stability of the platform the gunners are shooting from and creates a new variable when trying to aim. Heck it risks injuring the crew or even ejecting them from the plane, and even basic maneuvers risk tearing the plane apart. It's not the answer, and not the reason the gunners were ineffective.
What I like about these scene, and what I think they are trying to convey, is just how extraordinary it was that they managed to do this and survive the encounter. It's gotta be a perfect storm of luck, pilot/gunner skill, and fatal mistakes on the German side.
@@falcondmpexcept it happened in real life
@@guts-141 even though they were explicitly told to hold the box? okay
@@steriskyline4470 This scene actually happened. They were the only bomber left from the 100th, they had already dropped their bombs and they had fallen behind the rest of the group. Combat box was the standard formation for mutual defense and bombing concentration, but its kind of hard to have a formation with only one aircraft.
so unreal a B 17 cant curve that fast
Ну да, 4х моторный бомбер перекладывается с крыла на крыло как истребитель
I belive that the B17 was a match for all fighters in WW2 in a dogfight ..... one even shot down 20,000 spitfires in one mission by mistake .... this is so factual im impressed !!!
What game? XD
I dont watch ww2 series or movies for some action and stats of everything related in the military,i watch it because its history what our grandfathers done during the war,truly difficult times,then they will tell you if they were still alive this day you are lucky you were born in a era where you can enjoy life,the bloody hundreth bomb group is a true story of heroism,saw some documentary,interview and do some research.
Good scene but the music really takes away some of the suspense. Band of brothers never had music during their action sequences and really made the scene more suspenseful.
BoB was a masterpiece.... this is much more a "History by Hollywood" kind of series unfortunately....
It's not band of brothers. Stop comparing it to band of brothers,
"History by Hollywood" which is in fact following events from the book Masters of the Air verbatim in many circumstances.@cso81
@@thesmirkingwolf it’s not? Lol, you don’t say…. Then what should I compare it to? Naked Gun?…. You know, when there is a quality war movie or series and it sets the bar for accuracy and quality, you inevitably compare others to it….
I agree 100%. I started watching band of brothers again last night. As far as writing, character development, cinematograph etc. Band of Brothers puts this show to shame.
Film name ?
Its a show called Masters Of The Air. Its on apple tv.
Sure are a lot of war thunder players here lol
I could only see parts of the series. I think it's a shame that you only see the Allied view. I would be interested in the German Air Force. How to deal with being so crushed.
Looks like a pc game, in a bad way. Compare with the Memphis Belle movie.
Memphis Belle has some awful effects lmao
There are always an unhistoric amount of fighter shot down in these movies
That slo-mo bit looked naff.
1: 55... they made ey
Just starting to read the Book version of this Film some 500 odd pages long..no Hollywood stuff there just the real story of the Eighth Airforce & the people during WW2
actually a lot pretty verbatim lmao@@mmackenzie3922
Espero que alguna vez hagan una serie igual con los ases de la Luftwaffe de protagonistas.
No creo que pase, los pilotos alemanes sabian lo que hacian y lo que estaban defendiendo, es muy difícil justificar sus acciones y es muy difícil hacer una serie con asesinos reales como protagonistas.
@@sebastiandiaz7181 Los pilotos alemanes eran tan asesinos como los miembros de las tripulaciones de bombarderos que también sabían lo que hacían.
@@sebastiandiaz7181estas llamando a todos los millones de soldados alemanes asesinos?
@@hexpert6043yes they are, and it’s important to know it as a fact. Or else you get more Putins/Hamas running around.
@@hexpert6043 Una gran mayoría si, no porque mataran, eso lo hacían todos, sino porque lo hacian, los alemanes ya sabian que su gobierno estaban invadiendo países que no eran suyos sin justificación, si tu gobierno está haciendo eso, lo logico es no luchar o buscar vias para escapar, lo del genocidio si era mas secreto y no todos los soldados sabían.
I recommend CZcams channel WW2 US bombers for excellent technical explanations