Are Private Schools Really Better? | USA vs. Germany
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- It isn't everyday that I come across a statistic that the United States and Germany have in common with one another, but in both countries around 9-10% of all k-12 school students attend a private school, in lieu of public education. And in both the US and Germany, those numbers have risen in recent years.... but that doesn't mean the cost of private school, the motivations for parents or the controversy is the same. Let's take a look.
🔎 Video Highlights:
00:00 Introduction
02:10 The Numbers behind Private School Enrollment
08:13 Funding & Tuition for Private Schools
12:11 Why do Parents Put their Kids into Private School?
16:14 Do you actually get a better education?
19:43 Controversy
🔍 What's Inside:
Private vs. Public Education Trends: We analyze recent trends in education, discussing why more families are choosing private schools.
Educational Benefits of Private Schools: Discover the unique benefits that private schools offer, from smaller class sizes to specialized curriculums.
Impact of Technology in Private Education: How are private schools leveraging technology to enhance learning?.
Global Perspective: A look at how private schools are faring in Germany versus the USA, with a focus on their growth in different regions.
Episode No. 130
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The elephant in the room: here in Germany, at least in big cities, parents won't usually elect to send their kids to private schools for religious or philosophical reasons, but simply to shield them from what they consider the riff-raff.
My sister is an English teacher with a Cambridge approved certificate, and that helped her find a position as a substitute teacher in a big Gymnasium here in Nord-Rhein Westfallen. She only speaks B1 level Deutsch (we only came from Ukraine in March 2022), but the principal was super eager to get her on board. The shortages for teachers are really severe here, and her 5 graders had 4 teachers in one semester, not ideal. So of course it was super stressfull for her, but she persevered and recently had a parent teacher hours, when parents coiuld come and talk to her about their children's progress. She actually was really suprised that a lot of parents just came to say thanks and how much their child likes to learn English now under her supervision. And her colleagues made sure to explain to the parents that the school is very fortunate to have my sis as a teacher, even though she might not speak German that well. I'm so very proud of her and I see how although stressful it is, the classes are so big, but she talks about her kids non-stop and it's very cute.
Glad you are safe and able to continue your lives and dreams.
@@petrameyer1121 thank you so much, Petra!
Seems your sister is not just a good teacher by profession but vocation. She may not yet be able to speak German very well, but her other skills such as empathy, communicating with students on an equal footing and the ability to inspire others far outweigh this. So when the students' parents thank her after just one year abroad, that counts for more than any certificate. A real win-win situation, apart from the terrible war that led to it.
@@Opa_Andre thank you for your kind words, I'm very proud of her as well. And nothing improves your German better than thirty 11-year-olds who want to talk to you and don't know enough English yet. Older students are cooler than that, so they only speak in English to her 😁
Finally a nice story about German schools.
Biggest reason to choose public school in Germany: The peergroup. It's the neighbourhood school, they can see their friends and classmates easily, as they live just a few doors or streets away. German kids are often very mobile from the start of school, meeting their friends in the afternoon at the nearest playground or later the skatepark, a friends house, a public pool or lake without parents being involved. Private school would have been further away, kids from all over the city in one classroom - and the benefits are really not that great in germany unless you want to address a specific problem- which my kids simply did not have.
Oh, also, there is little "prestige" attached to schools. So no one will ever ask at which school (or university) you attained your degree. My husband was quite astonished when - working with US collegues - he was asked which univerity he had attended. Especially as he was definitely not fresh from uni but had worked in the field for 20 + years. Not a question asked in germany, usually.
To throw in one example in advance:
We‘ve always been satisfied with what German public schools had to offer - living in the countryside, the situation is ok most of the times.
Now, however, one of my kids has a chronic illness, requiring adaptation and support normal public schools cannot offer. At the same time, he‘s too good a student (straight A before getting ill) to be covered by the public „Förderschulsystem“ for the disabled.
He was eventually put into a private school specialised on cases like his by the responsible authorities, and they cover the fees.
Which means: Here private schools also close a gap there is in the public system. Which I am very grateful for.
All the other kids in our family still attend public schools and so far, I see no reason to change that.
My experience with the German school system was horrible from early on. A switch to a private school helped. Still I am not a huge fan of German schooling in particular and schools in general.
@@svensulzmann4282 I am sorry to hear that, and glad you found a way out of that.
I did not mean to say that I think the German school system is perfect - I realise now that my initial comment reads as if that was the case. Sorry for that. I am not a native speaker or writer of English and sometimes it shows…
I can easily imagine kids not fitting in for a number of reasons. The system works okay for many students, but I think there also is a considerable „cut off“ on both sides of the curve for whom this approach does not work too well.
@@svensulzmann4282 I can agree to a degree. I attended 4 different gymnasiums for several reasons. After "Grundschule" the official binding advise was "Sonderschule" for kids with special need. Because of my dislexia i could not read nor write properly. I had the ability like a kid in the middle of the first class. BUt my teacher gave my perents the advice to send me to the Gymnasium because of my intellectual abilities. The onlychance was going to a private school, since public schools were not allowed to take me in. And then we moved and then i had serious problems with some teachers and i changed to a private scchool for 2 years and then back to a public school because of the subjects i wanted.
I can not say that private schools and public schools are verry different in general. In private schools you meet less a-jole teacher but so or so most teachers are quite ok up to good and my best teachers i had definitly met at public schools.
At the end i only can say, it all depends on the kid it self and what luck it has with the teachers.
@@marge2548 that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.
Good to hear.
Two of my children are teachers: one in an international school in Europe, the other in an inner city school in the US. In America I have observed three main classifications for people sending their children to private school:
1. People in school districts with low tax bases. Stereotypical inner city schools where parents are convinced by slick marketing that charter schools are ticket into the middle class. This is, of course, nonsense. Charter schools are nothing more than a mechanism to get the public to fund private schools. They expel students that don't make them look good, manipulate standards, and prioritize profit over education. They are a scam.
2. Exclusive schools that promise you kids will meet he "right" people and make the "right" connections. These schools often also claim superior academic facilities and college entrance odds, but in reality they are just places with wealthy parents that can afford to pay the tuition of the most "exclusive" colleges. Many of them are legacies of this colleges so their kids have a backdoor in anyway. Yours may not. These schools are often jockatoriums that promise full-ride scholarships to kids who can throw a ball or who have been pumped with human growth hormone by their hyper-competitive parents.
3. Lastly are the social focused schools. These can be both religious based or just plainly political. Parents who don't want their kids brainwashed by (what these parents typically see as) a bunch of liberal groomers in public school can send their kids to these institutions to be brainwashed with the parents' ... we'll call them "values" but that's inaccurately generous.
The first group sees the fundamentally unfair world and is desperate to do anything to give their kids a slim chance at a better life. The second group sees a fundamentally unfair world and really wants to keep it that way. The third group sees a fundamentally unfair world and is so convinced that it is the fault of some "other" that they will do intellectual backflips to reinforce their prejudices and anger.
Despite our rhetoric, Americans have an irrational fear of equality. Our nation is so drastically unequal and has been for so long, that the fact has been baked into the culture and our collective expectations. "Equality" is instantly translated to "Poverty" because "we all know" that unless you're on top, you'll soon be pushed under. It is this fear that lets the wealthy manipulate us.
Amen! This is so on point! There's a public charter school that just opened in my neighborhood and it is essentially a far-right indoctrination school that touts itself as superior to the local public school. However, one look at their website and you see that only 6 of their 36 teachers are certified teachers. The rest were hired for their 'beliefs'. Imagine sending your 6 year old to school and the person educating them has never taught a day in her life, nor has she ever had any teacher education whatsoever. Oh, but it's supposed to be an outstanding school. Suuure.
Over the last year working closely with schools and school districts and parents the change has been stunning. I wrote another comment here on it but your writeup brings me back to this part:
Chronic attendance problems and student behavior has gone off a cliff, hand in hand with rather widespread public disrespect for teachers and teaching. Parents have been abandoning their responsibilities to their children, stopped volunteering and joining PTA/PTO to instead shout at school board meetings, and leaving their kids to be babysat by unsupervised iphones. All of the above are a potent combination for defunding to be a self-fulfilling prophecy leading to more defunding, and calls to eliminate public schools with wealth transfer programs to current private school students.
@@shang0h You are exactly correct. It is a spiral and the parents can't see how their actions are not in the interest of their owns kids.
Why should a Christian parent want their children to grow up in a secular environment? Obviously you're so high minded and objective you can explain why without appealing to your prejudices!
@@asdasdwrwe32-bh3gw Hi! Yeah, sure thing.
I can't speak for other faiths, but as a Christian you should definitely want your children to grow up in a secular environment. The choice to declare that Jesus is your saviour and to live a life carrying on his love for everyone (remember: faith, if it is not accompanied by works is dead. James 2:17) must be an informed choice. Without a larger perspective of God's creation and the ideas in it, a child cannot know what they are choosing and what they are rejecting.
At least one of the Church fathers (I want to say Augustine, but I cannot find the reference) wrote about this.
On a practical note: expose them to the world when they are young and you can giver them some perspective. Help them frame the world with an eye toward the trust that Jesus loves everybody and that they can help the most by being forgiving, humble, and sharing what they have.
I have very clear prejudices, obviously. There they are.
Here in denmark all levels of education is free. That is the reason why I could get an university degree at all, since I come from a poor background. Actually I was only able to get my degree because here in Denmark students get money for studying on full time. Without that money and it being free, I would not have my current degree or be writing my master's thesis.
In Germany all levels of education are free as well. But I also have a friend from Denmark and I was always amazed by the fact that everyone basically gets a salary for attending school/uni there. Here only people in need get money to be able to go to university.
I'm still not sure which concept I prefer as I don't fully understand the Danish one. But as I said, I'm amazed how this is even paid for 😅
@@DenzelPF-jl4lj the basic idea is that you learn better when you have less stress. So having a basic income while you study is a way to make sure you can focus 100% on your studies and that you are less worried about not having to keep a student job on the side to be able to be independent. At least that is how I understand. Healthcare also does not pay for itself. Some welfare is just so great that it is worth it in the eyes of the public. You get this no matter if you are young or old, or if you already have an education but need a new education because of an accident. Or you want to continue studying to get a better pay. Yeah the actual amount is low compared to having a job. In my class we had an elderly woman 61 years old. With 30 years of experience working in the EU as a live translator between French and Danish. Why she wanted to learn Chinese, I don't know. But she got the money just like the rest of us. If you earn too much on the side, such as my friends working full time as programmers, then you can not get the money. And if you live with your parents, and they are too rich, then you also can not get the money.
Private schools or Friskole, in Denmark are not free, but most are affordable, for most middle income families.
But otherwise you can attend public school all the way to university for free, and if above 18Y and studying, you'll get money from the state, so that you have the time to study, and only need a little sideincome to live
I've heard about the way Denmark does things, and I think it's such a cool concept! Especially coming from America, where it's common to see someone with a full college course load also have to juggle a job or two on top of that to support themself and their education. Like, college is basically a job in and of itself. And while you may not be PRODUCING any work, it's not like you can just jump into being a doctor or lawyer or scientist without the knowledge of how to do what you're meant to in that position. Gaining that knowledge is just step one in the process, and it's for EVERYONE'S benefit, so why not help support that process?
The kind of returns societies get for investing in public infrastructure and their citizens through education are what built and carried the US out of the great depression, through the war, and to the longest sustained period of economic growth in history (which somehow happened even with higher taxes..), and though that couldn't be carried on here it's been at least some comfort watching other countries pick up the torch and continuing to 'rise the tide' that lifts all boats. Wishes of nothing but success for you, Denmark, and everywhere else that is building for the future through health and education.
I never hesitated to send my children to public schools in Germany. They attended the local primary school and after that the 'integrierte Gesamtschule' a five minutes walk away. They got their Abitur at a 'berufliches Gymnasium' a thirty minutes train ride away.
The nearest private school wouldn't have been accessible by public transport, so a ride by car every day would have been the choice. That had been impossible to accomplish. So a private school was ruled out only by looking at transportation.
The quality of the education they received got them to university. My son just finished his masters degree and has been accepted into PhD program.
I think the German school system could get a reform but I don't miss private schools.
In Germany, every school (public&private) is regulated by the Federal State, so they aren't really private or free! Private schools are just an alternative of mostly the same, but lack the same funding. That means, only few remaining private schools have a use, if they gain more funding through private sources and then use that money wisely, to get the best teachers or stuff and remain a little bit of autonomy. But, as everybody sees: The private capitalist enterprises made most equipment perfectly affordable for a single person themselves. So you don't need shared spaces like a school. Public schools, which are financed by the tax payer, who get's imprisoned, if he doesn't pay for the show, make generally very bad investments by public paid teachers, which have no responsibility towards anyone, but getting their salary. It's a gigantic waste. Private schools can't waste it that much, because they would run dry. The other private schools like Waldorf are kind of a sake for the rest, because they are paid by their parents and not a third party and their children don't mess up regular schools, which already are pretty diverse.
We had the "struggle" you described too. After long discussions we decided to send our kids to a regular public kindergarden and school. The main reasons was that in our opinion education is more than acedemic knowledge. They should grow up in a social mixed environment, make friends with kids who have to share a room with their siblings, whos parents cant afford a fancy holiday each year and so on.
In the end it turnes out well for them. They are open minded, imune to any kind of "isms" and where also able to unfold their full potential in terms of academic degrees.
Same for us. We had a public and a private school in less than 10 minutes walking distance and chose the public school for just that reason. Why would I want my child to grow up in a school, where 90% of the children are blonde and have typical German names? Now my child has friends, who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, who speak two or three languages and are just wonderful (and I also like the parents).
@@asdasdwrwe32-bh3gw no, not with Germans in Germany, but a school, that is so „typical German“ (by foreign standards, read: blonde, blue eyed children, all parents with higher education), that the children don’t see a real representation of the population in school.
A good number of people here have roots in another country, learn German in public and Turkish, Arabic, Russian, Polish or Spanish from their parents. And in many private schools these children are not represented at all.
@@asdasdwrwe32-bh3gw I’m not talking about recent immigration, but learning how to interact with people with another social background in a safe environment.
If the children only encounter other people you get parallel societies (from all backgrounds). Why should school children not learn to interact socially with someone from a different background?
In our private school here, there are no children with homosexual parents, no children with single parents. All parents are extremely similar as are the children.
I prefer it for my family to have friends with different backgrounds. Our neighborhood itself is diverse (middle to upper middle class, but you still get different people) and that’s not visible in the private school.
@@geranienbaum 😂 I don’t live in a small town. I live in Germanys fourth biggest city.
@@geranienbaum I wasn’t. I was afraid that they would not realize deep down that people, who are not“typical German“, are the same as them and only feel comfortable with blonde, blue eyed people around them.
And as our neighborhood is quite boring middle class, and the schools choose by distance from school first, pretty much all children in school are from the neighborhood, just with different backgrounds.
I just want them to be able to learn without learning prejudices regarding backgrounds (which is very different from the private school here).
I've worked in private schools in the UK and Germany for well over a decade (back in state School now), so I'd like to offer an insiders perceptive: in the Uk - just like in the US - private schools are for the wealthy and what they pay for is not necessarily a much better education but networking that starts at a young age and guarantees their offspring plenty of privileges later down the road. In Germany, most kids attending private schools have (severe) behavioral problems and are quite often funded by state programs. So rather than taking the kid out of their family complete and going into the foster system (and there aren't enough foster families by far) they are sent to private school.
Actually there are quiet some very shitty public schools in Germany. I had the bad luck as a kid to have to go to one. I switched to private school but because of the emotionally abusive teachers.
As a teacher at a German private school, I find the last part of your perspective very interesting. I would say the opposite is true for my experience. As we have about four applications for each spot in the private school, we have the (morally very questionable) task and privilege to pick and choose the students for our new year 5 classes when the kids are still in primary school. We invite them for a day and observe their social skills to make our choices, which means the rate of students with behavioral issues is much lower than at public schools that need to take in every student. I'm not saying that this system is great and we teachers don't feel weird making the choices, but we can't take in all applicants, so a choice must be made...
@@Ginnilini I agree.
@@Ginnilini I think that the mix very much depends on the school.
Where I live, there are private schools which are just private schools. And private schools that are somewhat associated with one of the major churches, or a certain worldview (like the Walldorfschulen).
To my knowledge, those schools in the area do as you describe. And there are parents chosing these schools for the exact reason you name.
And there are private schools specialising in certain fields. There is, eg, a private school in my area specialising on kids with Asperger, ADHS and other behavioral problems. They have certified teachers for that, and the rate of kids with no issues at all in this school is rather low.
Likewise, the school my eldest goes to now is somewhat specialised in kids who were not be able to attend school regularly for a long time (for mental of physical reasons), have problems "to adapt" in general, even being average or very good learners, or kids who do well in school in almost all fields, but are so bad in a single one (eg reading or mathematics) that they have problems in a normal standard school setting. Classes are very small, teachers are doing well - but there are in fact quite a lot of kids with behavioral issues in that school, even IF the fees for most of them are covered by their parents.
However, as far as I can see now, this still works better than a regular school just because classes are small and the teachers have more time and ressources for every single student, issues or not.
We're an American family living for decades in Germany, and when our kids were young (we're now grandparents) we opted for the local Waldorf School mainly because of its glorious location, but also because German friends with school-age kids did complain some about the pressure on kids and parents to decide their school trajectory by the end of 4th grade. All 3 of our kids ended up doing their Abitur, and a good one, and the eldest even got a scholarship for last 2 years of Gymnasium at prestigious Schloss Salem (what a contrast, from countryside Waldorf School to that high-class environment, but after an awkward start she thrived). Our two sons did the Waldorf route from K to 13, and although had their criticism of the curriculum and some of the teachers, basically didn't regret it, and especially appreciated excellent music and theater and arts. Are youngest was considered a "slow developer" and didn't learn to read until 3rd grade, but turbocharged when he was around 12 and ended up with a 1.3 Abi and a successful career as cellist and artistic director of a major music festival. We're super grateful for the time and trust he was offered during those first 3 grades. - Just one experience, but a good one.
I think the best education a child can recieve is to mix with other childeren with different social economic background.
I helped to found and then taught for 23 of my 44 teaching years in a good International School (private, but in Germany, so state certified). I sent my children to German public schools from Grade 1 to Abitur (and then put them through German universities), although I could have sent them to my own school tuition-free. That had partly to do with the age of my children at the time of the founding of the school. But it also was because I wanted them to feel rooted in the community where we lived. In addition, the teaching of German culture and history as it is taught here in the public schools is unique and irreplaceable, and I wanted them to enjoy that - which they did. Now they are "high functioning" adults (one gynecologist and one HS teacher/administrator) with children of their own who also attend German public schools - although one of their mothers also teaches at the school I helped to found! The German Abitur is still a thing of high educational quality, and in spite of all the problems of lack of teachers etc., the school system that leads up to it has a high cultural value and is worth supporting. I may have been unsatisfied at times with the day-to-day, but I never regretted the decision to send my children to German public schools.
I was born with spina bifida and entered the US public school system in the 1960s. My wife is also disabled since birth and attended both Catholic and public schools growing up. When we enrolled our son in a Catholic school for pre-K through 8th grade, I was conflicted knowing that this school could never, and would never, accept children with difficult disabilities. I am a home owner and have always supported all mill level increases for public schools, and I always will. Our son is now a public high school history teacher!
I've taught both in a private school and public schools in the US. Of course private schools score better. They can literally decide which students they accept into their facilities. By the parents making the decision to send them to private school, it most likely means they are instilling the value of education in their children at home. If a kid is disruptive in a public school, they come back from the office in 10 minutes with a juice box. In a private school, they can kick them out.
I don't know what it's like in the USA, but here in Germany it's not always the parents' choice. Neglected children can be recommended to private schools by the youth welfare office or a psychiatric clinic so that their lives can be improved there. For example, in private schools you get more meals, there are social workers and boarding schools also fall under private schools. It is easier and quicker to place children in boarding schools than to place them with foster parents or even to have their parents take away their custody. It can also happen that young people who have problems with the law are placed in private schools in the hope that they will find new friends there from better social classes.
As someone who went to school in the United States and experienced both types, public and private, I found that there was a considerable difference between the two. I will admit it was many years ago, but I think it still applies. I went to K thru 8 in public schools and I think I received a good education for the most part. Like any student some of my teachers were better than others and that made at least one year less productive. When it came time for me to go on to high school my parents chose to enroll me in a private school even though this would place an increased financial burden on them. It was a secular school, although it had had some connection with the Presbyterian Church at it's founding. It was a transition that at first was difficult on both a personal and academic level. Making my way through the first months was challenging because I did not have any previous contact with the other students. Many students were not only from different states, but some were from different countries, that proved to be a benefit in broadening my view of the world around me. The academic standards were much higher at the private school, with what I would come to understand later, that the teacher had to meet a higher standard than their peers in public school. Two examples that I remember are that my Far Eastern History teacher had gone to university in Hong Kong and had what might be called a better grasp of the subject. The other is the fact that my biology teacher was one of the authors of our text book and spent his summers working with National Geographic. I feel that I received a better education at that school than my peers in public high school. Over those four years I found my self being steadily ahead, in both terms of quality and quantity of knowledge, of my friends going to the local high school. In the end I find that, yes, I missed the "high school experience" in the US, but the education that I received far outweighs that omission.
On another part of the subject, my opinion of public education in the US is mixed. On one hand the schools for the most part try very hard to provide the best quality education that they can. On the other side is the challenges that they all face in regard to being able to do what is best with the inadequate resources that they are given and the constraints they have to live with. Most teachers in the US are underpaid and under supported. Unfortunately, the teachers, and to a certain extent the administration, have to deal with inadequate facilities, outdated or dilapidated books, understaffing and having to pay for classroom supplies out of their own pockets. The constant pressures and interference that the schools have to deal with from politicians and special interest groups might be the subject for a whole video by itself. I have friends who are teachers and they feel fairly undervalued. A couple are considering leaving and this would be a great loss to both the school and the students. I do not have all the answers, it is above my skill level, but unless it is all figured out soon we risk the loss of our most valuable resource, our children and the future.
Both of our kids went to the local Grundschule (elementary) in our village, one continued in the nearest Gymnasium (G9), keeping her circle of friends, the other one took the longer ride to a private full day Gymnasium (G8) in the next bigger town, which had smaller classes (23 instead of 37), but she had to ride the train each day to get there (45 minutes one way). We chose the school for the second one while she was having minor problems in elementary school. That did influence our decIsion. That was 20 years ago. Both kids liked their teachers and their classmates. Looking back the different class size is the only important difference I keep remembering. Through the grades the class size shrank though, both finished their Abitur with about 20 classmates. And both learned the same stuff.
19:03 "...our constitution,[...] the Basic Law..."
*Our* constitution? Did I hear that correctly? Do we get to keep you now?! Please?
Maybe it is a regional difference, but here in North Germany it's been rather weird if someone went to a private school. In summary there were three cases. 1. religious reasons: Going to a church kindergarden or to a separate religion class offered by the church (only for this class, they still go to the same school). To my experience this separate path is mostly chosen by catholics who are not very many here.
2. Way of life: Waldorf schools are the by far most common schools. Most people would call parents who send their children there "ökos", which is mostly a stereotype of course. But there is some truth to it.
3. Higher education: Pupils that go to the relatively rare private high schools are often seen as losers who are not able to get their exam without extra (paid) help. There are also private colleges, but here the line is not that clear, because some of them (like FOM) offer things that you can hardly get otherwise (part time studies, evening / onliine lectures,, campus in many large cities allow you to move and study at another location)
Hi Ashton,
I'm generally spoken happy with the public school system in Germany. There is room for improvement but my experiences as a student and as a parent have been good.
Yet, we decided to enroll one of my sons in a private school from grade 5 on, because he had special needs (now we know that he's got Asperger's but he wasn't diagnosed by then because docs and psychologists hadn't got the memo yet), and I was, besides working a full-time job, occupied with caring for my disabled husband and didn't have the time and energy to care adequately for my son. And my in-laws, who took care of my other son, were overwhelmed with my special needs son. We wanted a school with homework supervision because his doing homework could take hours, hours I didn't have in a day.
The experience we had wasn't what was promised to us. Yes, there was no homework for him to do. We were very upfront with the school, about what our son needed, and what challenges could arise for staff and students because of his socially awkward and sometimes unpredictable behavior. The school promised to tend to his problems and help him overcome them. What we got was bullying - not from the students but from his class teacher who just didn't want to waste time on a "difficult" child.
Then we got the diagnosis and found a public school for him. With the help of an "Integrationshelfer" (assistant to our son during class as accommodation for his handicap - fully paid by the county) he successfully attended public school and finished Realschule. After finishing school he attended several courses (social interaction and work-related topics) that made him fit for an apprenticeship. Due to covid-related delays in starting the "Ausbildung", he's just had his "Zwischenprüfung" (official exam at the halfway point of his apprenticeship). From 2025 he will be a taxpayer and contribute to the system. Without all the accommodations (paid by the system) he would be a burden to the social system until his death because he would have been unemployable.
The pricing shown at 10:50 seems to be correct. We paid 250 € in 2011/2012. Also, there were different tuition fees for different income ranges and even full stipends).
The pricing varies considerably with the Bundesländer. I live in North-Rhine-Westphalia, which is the only Bundesland that grants no money to private schools at all as long as the schools are taking fees from the parents. Read: The schools have to finance themselves exclusively by the fees (those who don't are mostly church-related and get financial support from the church or related institutions). Which means: Here, the normal fee for a private school according to my research this year is about 800-1000 Euro per month, generally with no exceptions.
I even know from one school that charges from 700 to 1000 Euro for normal students, but 1450 for Asperger kids due to their special needs and more need of attention...
We are really fortunate, hence, that in our case, social services cover the fees as a means of integration (after a long illness). We never could pay that on our own. :(
We wanted to send our daughter to a bilingual school, or one where English was on par with German, but at the time those were way out of budget. and so daughter first went to a private catholic kindergarten that was just down the road from us. We chose it because we knew the children would be spending a lot of time outdoors enjoying the vast gardens and playground. We didn't think much but to enroll her in the elementary school of the same institution, mostly because it was a safe walk, she knew many of the children from her kindergarten already and so it would be a smooth transition. The cost wasn't so high. My family used to say: "give your children the best education you can afford."
In retrospect we should have signed her up for the local elementary school because the teachers there were more open-minded IMO, and the pupils came from various backgrounds there.
She then attended a state-sponsored special musik gymnasium that had scheduled school hours so that the attending pupils could have most of the afternoons free for their music lessons. It was quite international, which really pleased us. At that time it also meant school on Saturday, which was a pain, but she didn't mind. Am glad she flourished there, and she could develop her musical talents.
As someone who went through 13 years of public school in Germany I never thought I'd one day send my own child to a private school but I did exactly that after elementary school. Not because I think private schools are better than public schools but because the school he now goes to gives him the best environment for learning and achieving better results. My son was diagnosed with ADD in second grade and with his problems we very much knew that he wouldn't be able to go to a G8 Gymnasium with 30 and more kids in a classroom. He wouldn't be able to concentrate properly and so miss much of lesson itself by daydreaming. As we live in Baden-Württemberg, looking for a G9 Gymnasium wasn't easy even though we live in a large city. We finally found this private Kolping School just starting out and he liked it there immediately. Smaller classes (atm 23 kids), a very student oriented learning environment and optional Ganztag. Not everything is perfect, especially since it's a new school, but so far (he's now in year 8) we're really satisfied. Will we be sending our daughter (year 3) there as well? Maybe. We'll see. She doesn't have the same problems as her brother but I'm still not a fan of G8 but if she really wants to go to a G8 Gymnasium I won't stop her. Time will tell, there's still 1 1/2 school years to go. My son's school offers a discount for a second child and is affordable even of not.
It's interesting to see the difference between state and private schools in different countries.
In the UK, a private school (including the misleadingly-named "public schools", which are actually very exclusive private schools) typically costs about £20k per year for day pupils, or double that for boarding pupils, although obviously there is some variation depending on location and prestige, and almost all are academically selective and require prospective pupils to pass an entrance exam. Most private schools offer financial help in the form of bursaries and scholarships to a small number of pupils - bursaries are for pupils who passed the exam but whose parents wouldn't be able to afford the fees, scholarships are for pupils who passed the exam with flying colours and the school wants to make sure the parents pick that school over another. There is no state funding for private schools, although most are registered as charities and so are eligible for various tax breaks.
Private schools don't have to follow the same curriculum as other schools, but most of them broadly do because they want their pupils to take the same recognised qualifications at the end of it. Likewise, they don't have to employ qualified teachers, and there are various other regulations that don't apply to them.
Private primary schools (up to age 11) are far less common than secondary schools (age 11 upwards).
Religious state schools are common in the UK, so parents rarely pick a private school for that reason.
Private schools generally offer better extra-curricular facilities and opportunities (because they have much more money than state schools), a broader range of subjects at GCSE and A level (because they can afford to employ more specialists and have smaller classes), teaching aimed at more able students (because they only admit those who they expect to achieve high grades), and better behaviour (because parents who are unconcerned about their child's behaviour are unlikely to spend that much on their education, they don't admit pupils who are expected to behave badly, it is much easier to get rid of children than from a state school and they don't have to take in kids that have been excluded from other schools). And in a lot of cases they offer better preparation for university (especially Oxford and Cambridge) and can open doors in later life.
But while they may be good for those individual pupils, they are bad for the country as a whole! In particular, most of the political and media classes went to private schools and so have a very narrow perspective on the country as a result, have little direct experience of the difficulties that many ordinary people face when money is tight, and because they send their kids to the same schools they have no vested interest in seeing state schools improve.
It is probably better to use "Independent" and "State" sector schools for UK to avoid the confusion of terms ( "Public", "Private" , "Maintained" etc...). Furthermore, England and Wales, Scotland and NI. have separate education systems.
Overall about 5.9% of schoolchildren are educated in the Independent Sector, heavily skewed to Secondary Pupils and that perhaps 50% of "Boarders" are from overseas.
I think, the centralization in Germany is more about having the same curriculums on a federal level, than have it on level of the federal states (Bundesländer). Sometimes ago universities of one state didn't accept the Abitur from another state.
Depending on the federal state you have two to six different types of school, that offer the degrees to leave a certain school (between Hauptschulabschluss, Realschulabschluss, Fachabitur und Abitur).
And no matter if the school is religious run or not, there is no controversy on biology-education to teach sexual education and where the world and the human come from, no matter what a religious book would say.
In the US we hear the battle cry, "Vote with your dollars," meaning spending your money at one place as a vote against another you think should improve if they want to compete. However, when it comes to public versus private education, you highlighted the problem with that thinking, at least when employed across the board. To me, public education losing serious funding because students are going private screams that we need to fund and equip public schools very differently than we are doing now.
15:51 Centralization is probably meant in the sense that every federal state (Bundesland) does it differently (less about private vs public)
I went to a Waldorfschule in Freiburg, online for the first four years before we moved.
Unless you fully subscribe to Anthroposophy, don't send your kids there. The ideology is strong. It's a religion.
I can not confirm this by any means for the Waldorfschool I attended back in the days. There are huge differences between the single schools. And what applied to the eighties or nineties doesn't naturally apply to what makes a waldorfschool of the present. Things have changed there dramatically, if not everywhere. In Freiburg there are three schools of that type to choose from. I don't think, they are all alike.
We have a similar situation in Switzerland, comparable to Germany. Our biggest problem is currently the shortage of teachers. Schools are also run on state (canton) level here, so the situation is very different from state to state. One of the problems is that even though you can travel from one place to another in less than 2h quite easily, the salaries are sometimes very different which leads to an unhealthy competition and increases the problem for states with less financial means.
In general I think we have quite a good public education system but we need to take action to improve it. It starts with higher appreciation for teachers, starting with fair salaries.
Kid's problems don't necessarily can be reduced to private vs. public schools. Sometimes it's just the school as that. A friend has two daughters. One of them had many problems with the teachers even leading to health problems. When they put her in another (public) school everything was fine again. Both are/were at university.
The help of the parents is very important (as you said). For rich it might mean more additional education paid. For others it's just the time spent helping their children. But that needs a certain level of knowledge. My parents didn't go to university but both had Abitur and some kind of further education. And my mom really looked after me and how I did my homeworks and learned vocabulary with me. Even if I wasn't that happy with that as a child it helped me a lot.
She also helped at the elementary school with afternoon assistance (she didn't work at that time). When I was with her I could also help some children from lower grades with some tasks.
With both of you well studied I think your children have good chances of doing fine at either school.
I think there is another key difference between Germany and the US:
In the US there is no free choice of which public school to attend. Students have to attend the public school that's in their district. Private schools or charter schools are often the only alternative.
In Germany parents have to option to let their children attend public schools outside their neighbourhood/district. If you do not wish to send your child to the local neighbourhood school you have the option to send your child to another public one outside the district, city or even state (Exceptions apply).
It depends on where you live. Where I live, we can opt to send our children to another district, so long as we provide transportation and the school has the room to take a transfer. My school has quite a few out of district students.
@@reginakeith8187 Mostly here too. But there are exceptions e.g. special education schools or schools with more applicants than places available
@@reginakeith8187 I lived in rural Alabama. If you didn't go to private school, the one public school in the fairly large district was the only option.
The parents' association (Elternverein) for school is an annual contribution of 24 euros. It doesn't matter whether I have 1 child or 6. The parents' association supports the classes with excursions or finances external workshops (this could be anything, whether an empathy workshop or a drumming workshop). It also supports financially weak students so that they can take part in language or sports weeks (English, Spanish, French, Italian, skiing, surfing, sailing, horse riding, tennis,... the weeks can have different focuses and affect 10-18 year olds, at least annually). even though they couldn't afford the costs.
We have one Catholic girls school in my city grades 1-12. They charge about €50 a month. As many girls attend as transfer out to the mixed schools through the years. We also have an International school near by that charges about €17,000 a year for the upper grades, but in all honesty, it doesn’t have the best rep mostly because the average student stays there only a few years before the family moves on to a different country due to the parents’ jobs. Our boys attend one of the 7 Gymnasium in our city. The city had the top scores in Vera in the state even after Covid/home schooling(Ba-Wü)and top Abi scores last years so, no complaints from me. The new Rektorin is as concerned about social, humanitarian issues as well as academic issues. My only complaint is the building is older like all in the city. But it goes to show that scnick snack is not the key.
One interesting thing is, that in the US religious schools are more egalitarian and therefor moralistic than the public schools in the US, except they have a traditional carrier. But also compared to Catholic schools in Germany, which are less moralistic, but outright traditional, even through the carrier isn't. In Germany, the egalitarian State control onto unpolitical education is reduced in such schools, because they are basically kept free of it through traditional religious freedom (also part of the Constitution), while the public schools aren't.
Hey Ashton, German public teacher here.
I am dissatisfied by the situation but that is almsot entirely because of the material situation of all schools: teacher shortage. I don't think the consequences of that (less time, overworking) can be successfully avoided by a strategic child placement by the parents, it is a German wide problem.
I would seriously caution against Waldorfschulen. They were recently a topic of scandals for a variety of reasons and I think if you dig into it, you will quickly realise why. A lot of it is, to put it very mildly, pedagogically questionable.
I've had such mixed experiences in the US as both a teacher and a parent. My daughter has attended 3 different private schools, and while they did have some positive attributes, such as smaller class sizes and more options for curriculum, they also had a lot of negatives. One school required volunteer hours, which were mostly unavailable except for during the day when many lower income families would be working. This put them at an unfortunate disadvantage and discouraged lower income families from going to that school. Another private school basically skipped my kid ahead an entire grade level without laying the basic foundations needed for her to learn the more complex material. The class had 8 kids in it, yet classroom management was out of control, and none of the work was age appropriate. The last school was a Montessori school that had potential, but many of the kids were entitled and mean. Socially, it was a terrible place to be. That being said, public school also has its pros and cons. My kid couldn't keep up with the math curriculum. It just did not align with her learning needs/style, and that put her way behind in math. Because it's a public school, they can't just use a different curriculum, and and IEP probably wouldn't have provided what she needed. As a teacher, I worked in a deteriorating building that had no heating in winter, limited functional plumbing, and asbestos everywhere. However, it was a small charter school that really had a lot of opportunities to work one on one with students and their families. It was a tight-knit community where everyone knew everyone, a safe-haven for the LGBTQ+ community, and so much more. I wish the pay had been enough for me to make a living as a single parent and be able to stay working there. Teacher pay in the US is not livable, and the workload can be insane. And yes, all of the politics can also be really disheartening. As a history teacher, I had to check and double check all of my history lessons to ensure they complied with state laws about teaching certain subjects. It made it really difficult to teach inclusive and honest history. I loved my job as a teacher, but now that I've quit, I don't know if I want to go back. I would love to, but the pay would have to increase, and I would want to be reassured that accidentally saying or teaching the "wrong" thing (or what someone perceives as the wrong thing) wouldn't land me in a heap of legal trouble.
my daughter has attended a Montessori school from the age of 3 to almost age 10 now and is performing very well academically. And, most importantly, is very happy there! She has even cried when she was not able to go to school tor some reason! That says it all!
I spent my childhood in what now seems like an intellectual paradise. I lived within walking distance of a state college and at least 4 professors were my neighbors. When I was in high school I often used the college's library for my research. All of my childhood friends except for one went on to college. So, I do think that the family environment is a big issue in a child's education.
I'm in Quebec, Canada, we sent both our daughters to private school starting in grade 7(junior high?) And the way it works is if the government gives 100$ per student they will do the same for private and we pay the difference.
And no religion is taught in any school, they'll talk about all religions but it is not a school subject.
Thank you Ashton ! As always a very well researched and as well performed video ! 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dear Ashton,
once again a very thoughtfull and well researched video. Allways a pleasure to view such objective presentation on very delicate topics.
As a teacher on a (you call it private school, but in germany the term "independent school" would be more fitting with the legal term being "Schule in freier Trägerschaft") non-state school in M-V I'm surprised on the fact, that we're the leading state in germany...
Since you are going deep into the educational systems in both the US and germany I would like to recommend you look into the ways to become a teacher in both countries. Since you already mentioned the ever growing teacher shortage here in germany, maybe a look into the background of the problem can be enlightening.
I for myself have been at the university for almost 7 years but unfortunately didn't finish. Yet my principal, who knew me from university, took me in as "Seiteneinsteiger". This way of becoming a teacher grows more and more popular, but of course comes with a lot of risks in a lack of pedagogic skill and other proffesion-bound necessities. But nontheless, I think a lot of "normal" way teachers are less suited for the job than some "Seiteneinsteiger", since at least in state-schools the advantage of "Verbeamtung " and hence the bigger money is the driving force for many colleagues, whereas the boulders that are laid in our ways, additionally to the minor paycheck, show, that who goes into the wy of "Seiteneinsteiger" is ready to bear a way heavier toll for the same occupation.
I have 2 daughters that are USA teachers and both have left the profession because of the public school work environment. In public schools it is mostly undisciplined brats, entitled 'Karen/Ken' parents, politicized school boards, and pathetic pay all adding up to a toxic workspace for anyone who cares about actually teaching kids. What we generally have left are apathetic (which is the only way to do this job day-in-day-out without going crazy anymore) or the angels that just love the kids so much they will suffer the onslaught. If you have the ability, and care about your kids, you send your kids to a private school that does not answer to the school board, can discharge disruptive kids and actually have control of the learning environment. Sadly only a small percentage can afford to do this. I think the bulk of failures in education point to parents sluffing off their responsibility to raise the child. Nobody can raise a child in a classroom of 20-30 kids and it is not the teacher's job to do so anyway. While there is an advantage in the schooling, it is the ability of the school to demand the parents control their child or they are refused enrollment that creates a better environment for learning both the curriculum and how to be a human being in a social environment. Parents paying that tuition put the pressure on the kids to get the value out of their investment (yes, kids need expectations/pressure/responsibility to be prepared for the world they will enter as adults). The kids that succeed in public schools can usually point to parents and influencers outside of school that helped them succeed in the chaos, and there are plenty of these examples, but there would be so many more if we treated the public education system with the same urgency as we do our armed forces. Well, that rant went long, but it is such a sore issue for me. Education is the key to a functioning society and the craziness we are experiencing in the US now is a direct result of our failings in education.
100%
Hi Ashton. I've been watching your videos for a long time and am a big fan of them despite the changes that have happened over time. The work behind them must be considerable. I just wanted to show my appreciation.
A little feedback on today's video is that the sound at 309 hurt my ears a bit, but apart from that, I'd like to say that it's a great video.
Noted! Thanks for the feedback!
I am a perfect example of having attended a private school (an International School) back in Hesse in the 1980's. Even back then tuition contributions were insanely high, rising with the age of the kid, or rather, the grade they attended. The International School association has a curriculum that is almost identical the world over, so that students attending one school can switch relatively easily to another international school if their parents have to relocate for whatever reason. The lessons are all taught in English, the world over.
Now here comes the clincher: back in the 1970's my nine years older sister already went to the German Gymnasium, in tenth grade, while I just attended first grade. However due to lack of teachers back then classes were both very large (around 30 students to one teacher), but also woefully understaffed. In many cases my sister in tenth grade had fewer weekly lessons than I did in elementary school in first grade, due to teachers often being either overworked, thus becming ill, or simply because there was no teacher available for a certain curriculum (chemistry, biology, etc) so that substitute teachers had to try and teach the students for these curriculae. In many cases these lessons were simply dropped, so my sister had Fehlstunden/missing lessons due to Lehrermangel/teacher absence. My parents were very disappointed at the time, so decided to move both my sister three years before me into 11th grade in the International School, when I was in 2nd grade in German elementary school. For some reason the elementary schools in my area were well staffed, quite in contrast to high schools/Gymnasium back then.
When my transition from 4th grade to Mittelschule or Gymnasium was up for debate, my parents were so positively overwhelmed by the regular lessons my sister attended (always from 8.30 (homeroom) to 14.45) with virtually NO missed lessons, that there was really no choice. I was switched to middle school in the International School.
However during my attendance from 5th grade to 12th grade there, I had to deal with the worst offenders of rich bigotry you could imagine. I am not proud of having attended that school; I don't consider myself superior in any way. But that's pretty much how many students saw themselves: as something 'better' due to the money their parents spent for their education. Many of these kids bragged about who had a higher weekly allowance, wore the more expensive clothes, went to the most expensive hotels during which vacation trips where in the world, etc. Just for an example: one my American class mates had 'achieved' the US driver's license at the age of 15. With quite a lot of legal finaggling he got his driver's license accepted at the age of 16 here in Germany. However his parents demanded that he pay his insurance and costs for his car, as well as any clothing expenses out of his weekly allowance. Now imagine my astonishment when he complained that his (back then) extremely high WEEKLY allowance of 700 DM (roughly $250 back then, equivalent to around $1200 today) was supposedly not enough to cover his expenses.
That was in 1986.
Another student, two grades above mine, the son of a rich Arab, plowed his brand-new Ferrari into a wall, totalling it in a mere three months after he got it. He was so embarrassed about having to drive a 'low-class' Porsche that his daddy had bought him as a stop-gap measure until his new Ferrari could be delivered to him.
Those two example should give a fairly clear picture what kind of people I had to contend with during my attendance there. They had absolutely NO connection to the value of money, nor how money does not define the value of a person. That character is far more valuable than money; integrity, consistency, loyalty, are attributes to be valued; not a weekly allowance. Especially when being a Kevin or Karen (no, those terms didn't exist back then, but the kind of people already did) was their prime M.O..
The German education system did not allow Germans to bypass the German Abitur exams by attending these schools as per the German laws this school did not adhere to the German curriculae system, nor does it accept the requirements of these exams, but rather their own associated exams. While the German education board accepted the International Baccalaureate (I.B.) for ANY students that were NOT German as an entry level exam for German universities, any GERMAN students with that I.B. did NOT recieve entrance into German universities with it.
This meant that for my Abitur I had to attend an additional one year of extreme preparation to attend a second exam one year later for my Abitur.
My views on private schools are a bit varied: if schools, no matter if private or public, recieve sufficient funding to secure enough teachers to reasonably support relatively small classes consistently, with virtually NO missing lessons, then I would support either system. When private schools become easy-thoroughfares for lazy rich people's lazy kids, THEN we've got a problem.
I've had examples of both: incredibly lazy kids riding on their parents money, even barely scraping through, but certain that the 'big donations daddy or mommy' were certain to give the school if their failed prince or princess scraped through with a high enough grade point average; and on the other hand an incredibly talented, super-smart kid that skipped both fourth and sixth grade because he was incredibly smart and zoomed through the curriculum on boredom-mode. Both types of kids would have failed in the public schools that we know right now: overburdened teachers, uderfunded schools, resulting in crappy classroom equipment, outdated teaching methods, etc.
Mind you, not ALL public schools are bad; unfortunately a very large amount barely scrape by; and only a few are outstanding examples of scholastic apptitude.
That's where I see the merrit of private schools. However, as the German laws have stated, attendance should not be locked behind outrageous tuition costs.
EDIT: International Schools are COMPLETELY free of any religious association, as their students come from all over the world, and even attempting to teach ANY kind of religious classes would be a study in futility. Far too many religious beliefs are clustered in the student body to even attempt it. Ethics however is part of the curriculum, IIRC.
I guess it was an inevitable development with parents wanting overachievers more and more and the lack of teachers and class sizes going up that parents will consider opting for private schools if they can afford it. And with German private schools usually being affordable and there being a regulated curriculum even for religious schools it’s not gonna affect the quality of the curriculum for the child while having a better class size and more teachers, making them appealing. And in the state we used to start school there was no highest school form available until grade 7 and that lead to a lot of parents opting for private school for at least grade 5 and 6 and with them having their social contacts established they often stayed there. It’s usually a bigger socioeconomic difference in cities in Germany in my experience while the schools we attended in the countryside were pretty inclusive and everyone went there at least delaying some of that development towards elitism.
I don't have children, but I was always under the impression that private schools here in Germany (especially Waldorf and Montessori schools, I thought) are chosen so that children have a less stressful and less competitive learning experience (often without grading) and more emphasis is placed on their creativity and social skills. Could some fellow German parents enlighten me on this matter? Was I wrong?
For clarification: I never thought they would "learn to dance their names" or other clichés.
That's partly right. But...
Waldorf is based on the ideology created by Rudolf Steiner. All Waldorf schools have to honor his rules and thoughts. If you dig a little deeper than the less stressful and less competitive learning, you'll find very strange concepts. Have a look at Oliver Rautenberg's blog (anthroblogger).
My sister is teaching at a Waldorf school - each school has a certain degree of freedom about how close they stay to Steiners rules. Indeed, some of those theories are pretty weird (eg. Teaching about Atlantis 🙈) . Some other concepts are pretty nice. They often work with practical examples.
The less competitive learning (by not giving grades and sometimes not even judging) is leading to a problem when the kids are on the way to their "Abitur" (the highest degree in school). They suddenly have to compete with other kids from public schools by getting grades and sometimes are overwhelmed by this. 😅
Sure, they are stigmatized for life. Cult members.
@@juliaclaire42 Yes, I know about Steiner and his anthroposophy. I even visited the Goetheanum in Dornach once, but only because we were driving past. It's a strange ideology and has confused many eco-boomer minds, especially in Baden-Württemberg ... On the other hand, Weleda, Demeter and biodynamic agriculture undoubtedly have a positive influence on society.
About bio dynamic agriculture I only mention 'Kackhörnchen'.
The only company I know that broke with Steiner is the GLS.
As a retired public school special education teacher my take on private schools is that they can cherry pick students. We divided our special education students into three categories: Emotionally Disturbed, Resource Specialists Program, and Special Day Class students. The ED students included severely autistic and emotionally impaired students. The RSP students included children who had learning delays, Dyslexia , short term memory problems and dysgraphia as well as other learning difficulties. The difference between the RSP and SDC students was the SDC students had multiple learning disabilities while the RSP students had only one. Most private schools refused to accept these students because they were too much trouble and cost too much to educate.
Regarding Schleswig-Holstein: Not only is private school attendance low, on top of that 1/3rd of it is pupils at Danish schools which are organised privately but teach a combination of the SH and Danish public school curricula, pupils graduate in both systems at the same time.
I am not sure if I should even comment on this issue, since - even though I have lived most of my life in America - I have very limited experience with the school system in the United States of North America and even less with the German school system.
Growing up in the 1970s and 1980s it was a well known fact that teachers in national public schools had to work two shifts to make minimum wage, and work three shifts to earn a living wage. And virtually all public schools have at least two shifts of enrollment: The first group of students attend from 07:00 to 12:00, the second group attend from 13:00 to 18:00, and sometimes a third group will attend from 18:00 to 22:00. And it was not uncommon to have around 40 students to a classroom. So it should come as no surprise that that the teachers relied on rote memorization to lessen the grading burden. In other words: the teachers had their curriculum memorized and expected the students to copy the “lectures” as verbatim dictation, and “learn” by rote memorization of the lecture in order to regurgitate the lesson verbatim on the exams. Any student who gave a reasoned and/or paraphrased answer in the exam got a big fat failing grade because it was NOT identical to what the teacher had stored in his memorization! This rote memorization model of teaching and/or learning is aimed at producing pawns who are blindly obedient to their supervisors, completely ignoring the diversity of the students and stifling the development of individual personalities.
And even though there have been some improvements in the last 20 some years regarding the public education in Paraguay, that mentality (bread during more than three decades of dictatorship) is still alive and well among teachers to this day.
In 1981 my family spent one year on a study sabbatical in the United States of North America, where I attended public school. That was where I experienced a little bit of differentiated teaching, and I was really able to thrive. So going back was all the more frustrating for me. And since the closest public school was over 300km away, all my other schooling was in private schools. Beside the strong religious influence, they also had a very strong cultural, racial and economic elitist aspect to them.
Especially for the Spanish language classes we often got teachers hired from the national public school system. In my last year I crashed head long into the mentality described above. Even though I was among the most fluent in Spanish among my classmates, our teacher was failing me by “a country mile”. Fortunately my father was able to clarify this mentality disconnect in a way I could understand, as well as arrange some “remedial classes” for me with that teacher. Basically she dictated all the past classes to me, I typed them up in a clean format and crammed them into short-term memory for the exams. I more or less “aced” all the exams for the rest of the year, got my good grade on the official transcript, and remember nothing of what was taught to us that year. I only learned that the national public school system expects students to regurgitate verbatim whatever nonsense the teachers spout in class on the exam.
Almost all of the people I know who went to private school here in Germany are either gifted and/or have a learning disability/are neurodivergent.
as a person living in one of the Celtic colonies remaining to England where the Westminster government cabinet is dominated by former pupils of the elite public ie private schools that still remain 'charities ' for tax purposes I can report that;
Both the current and former Prime Ministers were on record as saying 'Let the old die they have had a good innings' rather than lockdown and protect them during Covid. That the then PM was unable to understand graphs explaining the spread of the disease. That they created a fast track for cronies of their party to supply PPE much of which was sub standard at vast proffit and actively blocked those supply and networks existing for track and trace.
Not only did Eton and Winchester produce persons trained to discard their fellow citizens and unable to understand basic science but through it's networks elevated them to the center of power.
Some parents might think that a winning strategem.
I'm very happy with my son's journey in public school in Switzerland so far. A lot has changed for the better since I attended school. E.g. support for both gifted kids and those with additional needs got way better in so many ways, generally integration is much more central. My cousin got pulled from public school and went to a private one because that kind of support was lacking. He was very gifted in math but stopped doing anything because he was so bored. My aunt tried to get him into a program for gifted children but back then this wasn't independent and he needed the teacher's support who refused to give her ok because he had bad grades in math.
Overall the quality is pretty equal. What you can get is that the quota of native speakers can vary a lot depending on where a school is located. Like between 50/50 to only 1-2 swiss/native german speaking kids in a class. This obviously has an influence in multiple ways, not least of which is that it's more difficult for non-native speakers to improve their language skills if none of their classmates are native speakers either. Nowadays kids' language skills get checked very early and all who don't speak swiss german or german have to attend language classes and participate in a daycare to improve.
I think the main income difference one can see in public schools is a trend to substantial tutoring by parents who feel like their kids need to have Matura/Abitur in order to be successful. This is also partially something pushed by many german immigrants who are not used to the swiss system which is way more permeable and allows for many routes to reach the same goal.
Hi, my daughter goes to a private gymnasium ( Unesco project and MINT oriented ,allday) in Baden- Württemberg. The classes are small ( 24 children) and the teachers are very involved. No lesson is cancelled if a teacher is ill or on a class trip or so. They offer a lot of working groups beside the regular lessons. Disabled children are welcome and even assistance dogs are allowed. From the ninth grade on they have so - called "ipad" classes which have been a great help in Corona lockdown times. They were able to teach online nine hours a day ( thats the normal time they study a day) after two days in lockdown and finished all the subject matters they had to do in that year. The school fees are 350€ a month and another 50€ for the lunch . We are very satisfied with the school and would highly recommend it. We weren't sure about sending our daughter to a private school but the public schools in our area are hugh. In every year they have 5 classes with 35 children in it and they don't offer the all day school which was important for us at that time because i was seriously ill and was often in hospital and had a lot of appointments and therapie. And with the planable day from 8.00 to 16.15 it was more relaxed for all of us. So when my daughter came home I had time for her and our family. This was our personal main reason why we send her to this particularly school. And as I said before we were more than satisfied with that decision. I am not the kind of person who reject public schools but in our case the private school was a great alternative
My sister was always bad at maths when she went to state gymnasium in Germany, but she actually started enjoying maths snd getting good grades when she went to the private german school in NYC (,while my dad worked at the UN)
I'm an older Millennial, with no kids, but I did go to public American schools all over the coasts of the U.S. because of my dad's job. The quality of my education was insanely variable from area to area, even within the same state, so like with so many things in the U.S. my education was a "zip code lottery" that varied from intensely overcrowded crumbling schools where violence was regular and we slogged through subject matter I'd covered in previous grades in other places, to shiny new buildings with a ton of opportunity for high quality extracurriculars that would even make sure I had a bus ride home so my parents wouldn't have to spend the gas money to get me home. Both of these examples were public middle schools (ages 11-13 or so).
Hey Ashton, both my kids ended up at different private schools in Germany, because they wanted a change in their surroundings. Since German Gymnasien are there for upto 8 years, a change in schools can help to give new perspectives and different environment to help their further development. As in the US, the local area where the majority of students come from definitely plays a role with the educational success. In that regard, you are well posiioned to get a good result for your kids 😊.
I'm one of the majority in the US that grew up without even the chance of being able to afford private school. Some with a little more money went to a private Catholic primary school before a public high school, although there were more drugs and alcohol associated with those students.
I have heard of private schools in the US in which I would likely have performed better than I did, but with how fractured the US education system is given state by state and even city and locality differences in the education a child receives, and voucher programs encouraging pop-up school/businesses everywhere results in an even more fractured system, which as you mentioned is latched on to by conservatives in both parties, typically who own stock in private school companies. The sense of community good in many European countries and in turn schools is one reason why I'm interested in living there. As to whether I choose public or private school is another question for that time. Thanks for another great video!
Mexican viewer here. I studied in private schools my whole life, from Kindergarden til University. At least in my personal experience, the main difference that private school in Mexico offer is the abbility for children to learn other languages from young age, meanwhile in the public system, you never do that, public schools start teaching english in middle school but its pretty mediocre and I have never met a single person that learned english through public schools. Another reason, is to avoid the constant strikes made by teachers because the corrupt government is not paying them their wages.
Here in Schleswig Holstein there is a private international school near us, our children asked about the prices: just under €700 per month, while many of the religiously oriented private, state-recognized schools today charge between €140 and €200 a month in school fees.
In Schleswig Holstein there are actually a few places: Flensburg, Kiel, Puttgarden, Lübeck, Gülzow and Siebeneichen with an Evangelical and a Catholic school. There is a joint Christian school in Elmshorn. Hamburg has a slightly larger selection, although many primary schools in particular have been closed.
And even for me as a parent, the difference in how the task of education was handled between school systems was obvious. (one child went to the Catholic school in HH, the other to the public school in SH) The performance level in HH corresponded to that in SH, but the social context was much better. The teachers at the public school seemed to constantly expect parents to give them a "slap in the neck" if they reported something negative about the child (performance or behavior).
Which in turn means that they (in SH) were not (sufficiently) held accountable for their disruptive behavior.
By the way, my child preferred the religious school, not that we chose the school in advance.
They absolutely are. When I started college, those that came from private school went right into calculus classes while their public school counterparts were having to take remedial algebra. No wonder it is taking people 6 years to get through college these days.
As I have mentioned on this channel many times before, I do haver 4 grandkids in US public schools, each one in a different part of town, attending different schools. My brother in Germany, has 2 kids in similar age and both his kids attend public schools in Germany. When I see the difference of level of education, I cannot stress enough, how good the German school system still is, compared to the US system. While it is true that my grandkids had laptops in 6th or 7th grade, my brothers oldest just now used a iPad in 8th grade in school. Nevertheless, the amount of knowledge she gained compared to my grandkids is way bigger. Also, she attended 2 weeks of apprenticeship to see if she likes what her future work would be and I was amazed by what she came up with. Overall, I know that my sons oldest daughter 16 years of age knows more and is better educated as my 2 oldest grandkids, who are 18 years now and are ready to go out into the world with absolutely no idea on what to do.
What I am saying is, that the German public school system is way superior to the US school system in any way, no matter if private or public (in the US it is all multiple choice, no brain needed). In addition to the school system, comes the fact that German kids a re way more independent, thus learn on how to navigate live better outside the school system and are better integrated into society. I honestly feel bad that my grandkids have to grow up like this and regret the move I made a long time ago. The US is good when you are between 20 and 40 with no kids to make money, but other than that, not a good place to be or to raise a family.
I went to a public primary school and a semi public/private Gymnasium (middle/high school) in Munich. It was a semi-private, state funded all-girls catholic school, which cost my parents 40€ a month but was completely free for low income families, which is why we had kids from all socio-economic backgrounds at our school. I mostly chose it cos I wanted to learn an instrument and it has a music tract where you could do just that (one-on-one lesson once a week was included in the tuition, which actually made it cheaper than taking lessons outside of school). There were other private schools with a music tract, but they cost 300+ € a month and were mostly attended by kids of rich parents. An interesting aspect of it for me was that - although it was a catholic school - you really didn't have to be religious and religion wasn't pushed on the kids. You had to attend religion class, either catholic or protestant (and all the non christians got put into protestant classes) but the actual curriculum in those classes included more about other religions and ethics than teaching about chistianity and it did so from a pretty neutral standpoint. It was really nice for me as an atheist kid who was nevertheless very interested in religion. I was by far the most interested and active in those classes and got the best grades, despite getting into frequent arguments and disagreements with our teacher.
But overall I'd say the german school system as a whole just isn't really in a good spot right now. Class sizes are way too big and there aren't enough teachers, with even less being actually good teachers. That's why I understand parents who send their kids to private schools with smaller class sizes and better teachers or curriculums. There are also some kids for whom the public school system is especially brutal, like those that have ADHD or Autism for example, or just kids who are especially shy (which was also the reason my parents thought an all-girls school might be a good idea for me). I just hope that with the right reforms the public school system in Germany will improve. Until then my husband and I are planning to move to Denmark before our future kids reach school age, because their system is a lot better than ours.
It might be interesting to do a comparison of a typical school day and/or class of a german vs american student,
including how subjects are taught, how they are practiced, how much homework, etc
2 Points: As a parent who can afford to give their children a better education than the masses, you also have the option of tutoring to increase the chances of your child.
Waldorf schools are "weird", to put it mildly. They have a unique perspective on education styles, and aren't fully free of controversy about their ideology/belief system (I don't remember exactly in which way though). There's a "Neo Magazin Royale" episode about that topic, that you can find here on youtube. (Just a heads up, that if you wouldn't want to blindly send your children to some religious school, you should give Waldorf schools the same scrutiny in regards to their beliefs, even though they are technically not a religious school.)
We had a lot of discussions with friends and co-workers in the past. Both of my children went to public school here in Hessen and the school was in the neighbourhood. So they were able to meet with friends in the afternoon to play or even later to learn together. But some things changed over the time, as due to increased cost of living or even emencipation, it became necessary to find schools that offer a whole day care. A lot of public schools weren't able to provide this, so my friends chose the private school, that offers careprogram until 5 pm. Other reasons for choosing a private school I heard about had for sure a social or even racist background to prevent their kid getting in touch with to many children with migration background or from "lower" social standing. If you talk about Montessori or Waldorf, it's a completely different discussion as it deals with the learning methodoligy on an philosophical/anthroprosophic base. From my point of view there should be a nationwide standard curriculum that has to be followed by all schools. Here in Germany it depends in witch stae you live and follow your school-carreer. The Abitur you graduate in Bayern or Baden-Württemberg is even a lot more valued as an Abitur e.g. in Bremen or Berlin. The curriculae are even different from state to state.
No! The Abitur is valued everywhere the same and has less of any value, because it is more centrally planned by the same Socialist governments and made to achieve egalitarian goals. The only difference between the States is, that without cheating, graduates in Bavaria and Baden-Würtemberg (more locally run states) get better grades than in diversified and bankrupt Berlin, if you speak of public schools. Private or international schools might perform a lot different, and outperform most Bavarians easily. The same Socialist crap myth is, that East German people are better educated, just because they have less migrants who can't read.
I’m a teacher at a US private school and tuition is $35,000/year and that doesn’t even include uniforms, books, or yearly trips abroad which add a few thousand dollars. Honestly, I think the education at my school is top notch, but it comes with a hefty price tag.
I attended a private boarding school some 60 years ago because my mother became fatally ill when I was five years old and died three years later. I went to Gymnasium at the time (with a fabulous English teacher, but that's a different story). I couldn't cope with the situation, and the school was just not geared to go the extra mile to support just one kid in a class of 44. So my father decided the kid goes to a private school and gets his Abitur. In that school, we had classes of about 20 students where individual support was provided. I did well, went to university later, and - I'm eternally grateful to my father for that decision.
My husband and i both attended public school and i feel received an excellent education in our respective countries at the time. Together we chose to move to a state which ranks second worst education-wise. We have chosen to put our kids in private school to give them better options.
Here are the fees of the elementary school in Brandenburg, we consider sending our son to:
125- € monthly fee
52,- monthly "Konzeptbeitrag" (certain afterschool activities)
25,- € monthly rental fee for provided electronic equipment
100,- € once for a preschool-programm
200,- € enrollment fee (of which 150,- € get substracted from the monthly fee)
300,- deposit (which will be reimbursed in the end, for breaking stuff).
The "hort", so the after school care will be up to 148,- € per month, depending on the parents income. 2nd child so on free. Meals not included. But both is the same in public schools.
Weirdly our local private school went bankrupt twice and is now gone while our local school has just created a 3rd class in the new intake of students to deal with the extra students it's taking in. We did consider private school for the language but decided it was better for them to be local. That way they can walk to school and their friends all live in the neighbourhood.
I loved going to private school in Germany. Smaller classes, better interaction with teachers and better opportunities to find out what I like without getting left behind. State school was just too big for me. I went from 1700 Students to 200.
Thank you again for this video and your thorough presentation. Education is IMO the backbone of every society and the foundation for the success of a country and its people. IMO when the majority of the the people in a community are able to live a successful live building on a good education it will increase the countries GDP and it will ultimately also strengthen the top one percent of Earners in the individual country. The more inequality you create with social segregation by means of e.g. private schools for a selected few the more you damage your own country longterm. Hence quality education should be free and available to everybody - this is not socialism - it is a clever investment. In Germany lots still needs to be done to increase the educational chances for all and remove the limitation of the social background but it is a work in progress....
„Our Constitution“ (19:05) I like that. 🙂
When my kids were going to a German Montessori school (20 years ago), the cost was dependent on your income. Those who couldn't afford to pay anything could "pay" by e.g. cleaning the school etc.
Very great video again. I think that private schools are ok as they give children an opportunity to have alternative curriculum. It is also ok that government subsidizes private schools and that tuitions for private schools are socially equitable.
Compared to other countries in Europe (take France or the UK, for example) private schools are not a major factor in D. In my (purely personal) experience, the main reason to send kids to a private school here is based on the hope and expectation that grades will be better there thus allowing for a wider choice of university majors.
Regarding the teacher shortage here, the reasons are clear (if you happen to speak to teachers, that is): way too much bureaucracy which stops them from focussing on the teaching aspects. Unfortunately, this basic truth still has not reached the political sphere.
You may be thinking of "Home Schooling" which is ~60000 pupils in both UK and France (about 4million in USA). These figures have been effected by Covid19. This can be related in some cases to remote location and islands.
The UK has separate education systems for England and Wales, Scotland and NI.
5.9% of school children are in the Independent (Private) Sector (about 7% in Secondary) this is skewed by the number of overseas pupils in Boarding Schools (~50%).
The age and prestige of some schools exaggerates the size of the Independent Sector. Hogwarts Academy is not in the English or Scottish education systems.
my god daughter went due to an learning impedement to a Montesouri school. However, she was really struggeling and things were getting worse. Wenn she was taken out and put to an public school, everything shifted. The learning impediment is still present, but she is so much improving in all fields. Thus, I think the German public schools are much better than people think. Especially newer teaching concepts are adapted so that the difference to more alternative schools ist not severe.
Here in Spain most private schools pay smaller salaries to the teachers than the public school, and the test to enter the public education system as a teacher is ultra-competitive, so private schools have the better facilities and resources but public schools have the best teachers.
My older kid had to many problems (not about the grades) in Gymnasium so she went to the nearest Wirtschaftsschule which happened to be private. She went to a private school by coincidence and was able to bike there. A friends daughter went to Waldorfschule. She had to be driven by car about 45 minutes one way. Not many families are able to do that.
Another interesting video!
Waldorf: There’s a highly weird worldview behind it…
that would be? If you can't explain > dumb statement
I finished Realschule in the nineties. What would have helped me the most, would have been an additional school subject. That should have included to learn how to learn and to organise yourself and the work you have to do.
They do that (in Northrine-Westphalia) in the Gesamtschule, as far as I heard also in the Realschule, and in the private school one of my kids attends. But they for waht reason ever leave the Gymnasium out of that.
We had our girls in Montessori pre-schools and we loved it. But it was expensive. When they were able to go to free public school, we switched them there. Can definitely tell the difference between the two. But, we, like most, didn't want to burden the heavy monthly cost of sending their kids to private school once the free public option kicks in. If it wasn't so cost prohibitive, most people would send their kids to private school in the USA. Some public schools are better than others, but private is often better... for a multitude of reasons: Less gang violence, more one-on-one time with the teachers, and a say in what gets taught to their children amongst the many.
In Switzerland the privat schools have the reputation being
for stupid rich kits to get some how a Matura (Abitur).
Only about 20% of students go to Gymnasium here.
And the Gymnasium is the requirement to Study at
a university. So when rich kits are not fit for that environment
there parents send them to a privat school that push and pull
them to the Matura.
German Waldorf Schulen. Here in Switzerland the analog schools are Steinerschulen. Living near Basel, I've had contact with both the School in Dornach. While I was still teaching in Basel, not a few students of the Steinerschule actually left to do their Matura (Abitur) so that they could apply for and be accepted into a Swiss university. Also some parents were rather open in saying, that the kids needed to get in touch with the reality of life outside of the Steinerschule. So they were yanked out of the Steinerschule before graduation to go to a public Gymnasium.
In Germany, Waldorfschüler have to do the public Abitur. But to learn for this is so different from what they are used to, that in my time, many of them would need a year longer to get used to that. Which at that time meant: 14 years of school instead of 13. Some wanted to avoid this and left Waldorf after grade 10 to attend the Gymnasium - most had to struggle, but eventually made it in 13 years.
But that was 30 years ago, a single Walldorfschule. - There are vast differences even from one W.S. to another over here.
If i had the Choice i would send my daughter to a "Montessori Grundschule Schule" the Curriculum won't differ, but the Methode of teaching is more accessalbe for the Kids. In Generell is the Methode of teaching in German Public Schools more "Konservative" and politicians are reluctant to Change that. Even when they could Just Copy or adapt other learning concepts from other european countries which have proven in several PISA Tests that they create better Performance outcomes.
I think in the Higher Grades the difference doesn't matter that much, but i wished i Had the the choise at least for the first 4 years in "Grundschule"
The biggest difference between Germany and America is the German education system does not allow for home schooling. In America home schooling is the fastest growing form of private education. There was a recent case of German family that was seeking asylum in America because they wanted to home school their kids.
czcams.com/video/QTvvPTiWbes/video.html
Ashton made a video about it and the case was also mentioned. Have you seen John Oliver's show about home schooling? Interesting.
Here in Spain, there are three types of schools: public, publically-financed charter, and fully private (a tiny, expensive minority). Charter schools have to offer compulsory education for free, but they _do_ have the possibility to raise money through compulsory uniforms and suchlike, which they generally do (I don't know about any exceptions, but there may be). Homeschooling is not allowed here in Extremadura, but legal though rare in some other regions.
In general, charter schools have a higher proportion of wealthier parents, and in compulsory education, you _do_ often notice a difference in achievement and behaviour. That tends to vanish in post-compulsory secondary education. In fact, when I've taught "mixed" groups at that stage, those students who went to charter schools have tended to be far weaker in my subject, English as a Foreign Language.
A _very_ important difference is that charter schools normally don't have the resources to attend to diversity in an adequate way, and they rarely feel so inclined. Kids with ADHD or learning problems are generally abandoned at charter schools here.
On the whole, public wins hands down here in Extremadura. I can't speak to fully private -the only such school in my region I knew of closed years ago after a combination of lack in funds and some scandals about grades for sale.
This Video is so interesting! I’m studying to become a teacher in Freiburg (English and Politics) and I gotta say many problems German school have, already start with teaching teachers at University. very interesting to talk about from a political and economical perspective. Bildung is just not as important as other politics and this will sooner or later ruin this country’s reputation of well educated people :/
mind you, i've been out of school for over 20 years, so i have no idea if things have changed.
but among public school students when i was in school, the general opinion was that private secondary education was for those who couldn't hack it in public school.
and private primary school was the domain of overly protective helicopter parents...
Well, the general opinion is still there, so I suppose things do not have changed much... :)))
Anyways, I guess there were some other reasons then as well as today. ;)
In 2022, just 28% of Oregon public school students across grades three through eight earned a score of “proficient” on state math tests, down from 40% in 2019. Oregon ranks in the middle of US states. It seems like it should be easy for private schools to beat that.
I went to a public school, but my younger siblings went to a Catholic private school - mainly because they advertised (at the time) a more progressive approach of pedagogy than public schools as well as a more inclusive approach and were known for good, young and committed teachers. (As my brother had to learn there were also some exceptions - a particular one was later elected into the Bundestag for the CDU.) While most pupils came from Catholic families, there were also some of other denominations, including muslim ones. I did now a quick glance at their current fees: Parents have to become members of the school support association ("Schulförderverein") with a yearly fee of about 90 Euro. The additional tuition fee is 60 Euro per month per family (not per child); additionally there is an obligatory insurance fee of 1,50 Euro per year and child and for children which are in the full-day care program a fee of up to 16 Euro per month. Lunch meals go extra with 5 to 6 Euro per meal.
The town I live in has currently two "major" private schools, a Waldorf (which are very popular in Württemberg and the Lake Constance region) and a Catholic one, furthermore a Catholic girl's school, a Kolping evening school, a school for physically handicapped children (operated by a public foundation), a special vocational school (operated by a Catholic foundation), a Hear/Speech pedagogic school (operated by a Protestant foundation) as well as some other, specialized ones. The town "notables" however tend to send their children rather to one of the three more traditional "Gymnasien", in former times preferably the "Humanistic" one (which includes Latin in the curriculum and allows also to select ancient Greek), which are all public schools (operated by the town council) as well as the three vocational high schools (Berufsgymnasien) operated by the district - so a large selection is available.
In my country we have a hybrid system of public and private schools. There are private schools founded on religious grounds, like protestant-christian, catholic, Hindustan, islamic, jewish and orthodox-protestant schools, there are private schools on lifestyle and upbringing, like free schools, anthroposophical, montessori, dalton and jenaplan schools and there are the neutral municipal (public) schools. In principle all schools have the same curriculum, but the way in how schools get to the end result is the freedom of every school. The schools are funded through the ministry of education with an amount per student, teachers are payed by the ministry also and the school buildings are provided by the municipality. Each individual school or school foundation has their own school board, which guards the principles of the school was founded on. We also have a constitutional freedom of association, so if a group of parents want to found a new (type of) school in their town, and they have enough children to attend this new school, the municipality must provide them with a classroom, or more if necessary, even up to even a whole school. And even if that means another school has to close because parents take their children of the existing school and on to a new school. That’s what happened in my town, the neutral public school was downsized to two classrooms and eventually had to close because most parents took their children to a new jenaplan school or to the existing orthodox-protestant school. So in my town there is no public school, only two private schools. Parents who want their kids to go to public school need to go to the next town, in the same municipality.
I have two toddlers and I would love to send them to montessori school someday if i could afford it, but the reality for me is, it is very unlikely I'd ever be able to afford preschool or any special school here in the USA. It's just the reality of how things have been going. I do hope to eventually move to a place eith a good high school so hopefully it will give them good opportnities like dual credits and a broad variety of classes to get them ready for college
In Germany parents choose private school because of HOW kids learn there (e.g. Waldorf, Montessori).
In the US parents choose private school because of
1) WHO their kids learn with (biggest reason here in Houston)
2) WHAT they learn (these are the anti wokes or religious motivations)
3) HOW they learn is a distant third reason
The problem is that it creates the opposite of community. Our neighborhood is 90 % white and middle class to upper middle class. Our local neighborhood elementary school is 15 % white and 70 % of students are low income, all brought in from areas outside the neighborhood. Most families in the neighborhood send their kids to private school, even those at middle class incomes. Nobody will say it, but alone the racial makeup of the school is enough for people to not consider it.
As somebody who strongly believes in public schools and thinks we need to stop this racial segregation I admit that we caved as well and sent our child to private school, primarily because we wanted Montessori and are against standardized testing, but even without that to be honest, we probably would have found a private school to avoid the challenges of being in a classroom where 25 % of students are struggling with English as well as the reported behavioral issues of class disruption. The teachers are great, they do the best they can, but ultimately we didn't take one for the team and put our daughters in an environment where we know she can focus on having fun and learning. So yes, we are taking advantage of our privilege to be able to afford private school, to continue the segregation and inequality of the current system
...
If the majority of the neighborhood kids would already go to the local school, things would be different, there would be more motivation to send our children to school with all their friends.
I used to follow your black forest family channel, what happened, and has it been merged into yours? Keep up the good work.
As a german teacher in training I want to emphasise that among my fellow students there is a general consensus that “normal “ schools are a much more desirable employer than private college ones.
1. Most teachers at “normal”schools are “Beamte” a legally distinct category of state employees that in general have a job guarantee and get extra retirement benefits.
2. You get paid trough the holidays.
3. The qualifications for a regular teacher are competitively high ( nominally 10 semesters of university education + 4 semesters of training at schools (Refredariat) working at private schools that don’t have these standards is often seen as “ well he is either ideological into the thing that private school is doing or he couldn’t make it into the normal schools .
At point 3 I meant comparatively
As a German teacher at a private school in Saxony, I agree with most of your points, but I'd like to add that there are huge differences between the 16 states and between the individual private schools.
1. Yes, I do get paid considerably less and I cannot become a servant of the state (Beamter), which has a number of disadvantages.
2. This last fact also comes with some minor benefits because I'm single with no house and no children. My friends who chose to work at a public school and became Beamte have sometimes been sent to other schools quite far away and this chance increases without homeownership, marriage or dependants. It's something you can hardly refuse if you want to keep your job. Maybe the situation is more flexible in your state.
3. I always get paid through the holidays and I've never heard of this problem in Saxony, although I have heard about it in other states, which seems criminally offensive.
3. You're right that there was a bit of a stigma attached to teaching at a private school and there are definitely private schools that are a catch-all for the teaching students with low exam results. However, that cannot be said for all private schools. I was at the top of my classes in school and university and so were many of my colleagues. We made a conscious choice even if it comes with a financial disadvantage. The reasons are varied, starting with smaller class sizes, a better standard of digitalisation and the subjects offered (my school offers languages that very few public schools teach, so teachers for those subjects have difficulty in finding public employment).
You're right in stating that qualification requirements are not as strict and we do have some fantastic "Quereinsteiger" in my school who are usually university graduates or even doctors in their subject. They get a mentor and a sort of internal one-year "Referendariat", and I have to say that some of them are much better teachers than many teachers with great results in their state exams. A positive aspect is that there's actually quality control and terrible teachers can be released which hardly ever happens at public schools.
However, I'm aware that a good percentage of private schools is very different and offers sub-par education at higher costs with less qualified teachers, so there's a reason for the stereotypes.
@@Ginnilini "I always get paid through the holidays and I've never heard of this problem in Saxony, although I have heard about it in other states, which seems criminally offensive. "
Well, in NRW, there are a number of teachers/substitute teachers in piblic schools (very often "Quereinsteiger" with a university degree but not in teaching, or w/o the last Staatexamen), who are employers of the State, but not Beamte.
And up to very recently (I think, it still happens), these were only hired for the school year, released for the summer holidays, and then hired again for the new school year. Which in some cases made it even impossible for them to get "Arbeitslosengeld" in the meantime due to the break being only 6 weeks (I have forgotten about the details - I think even if they knew beforehand that this was going to happen, the official notification they needed to apply for the money came usually so very late that the unemployment office refused to pay money for 6 weeks, after which they's be employed again... something like this. An aquaintance of mine got through this several times some years ago.)
In any case, as NRW is one of the most broke countries, the instances were actually obliged by the "financial control" (Landesrechnungshof) to act like this in order to save money...
I think most private schools around here give their teachers a permanent contract, paying also for the summer holidays.
@@Ginnilinisorry I wasn’t intending to be disrespectful towards you or your colleges I was only trying to point out the cliché. So sorry for generalising.
@@lordhedgehog1887 Don't worry! I also wasn't trying to express harsh criticism;-). For many private schools, your assumptions are correct, and about 12 years ago, my current school basically only had teachers without a Referendariat, waiting for their placement because they didn't get an offer or didn't want to take the offer they got. They were also paid abysmally (if I remember correctly, it was about 2000€ before tax deduction!). I started teaching 9 years ago.
The situation only changed in the last 10 years due to the teacher shortage. We don't have a single teacher without a second state exam anymore, except for all the doctors and master degree recipients who are Queereinsteiger.
Now that there's a general shortage of teachers, we get paid much more competitively and all the teachers who work here have chosen this school for a reason (digitalisation being one of the main ones for me as well as my colleagues). It's also extremely flexible. I can always say how many lessons I'd like to teach next year and they'll try to accommodate that (this year it's only 21, but I started out with 28). As Beamte/r, there's little room for this sort of flexibility.
In Bavaria many schools are private schools, but not elite. They are just part of the system, for example all catholic or lutheran gymnasium or realschule are private. But they do not cost an enourmous fee, just a nominal one, like 30 € per month, which can be waved, if a family has financial struggles. Several of them exists several hundred years. For example the "Englischen Fräulein" ( Maria Ward Schwestern) have several schools all over Bavaria.
The big question of most German parents is not public or private school but which public school. In my home town there a ten Gymnasien (of which only one is a private school), five Gesamtschulen, five Realschulen and three Haupschulen.
The issue is pretty complicated. German private schools in many ways may be more compatible to charter schools in many states.
Private schools here in the DC metro area are generally about twice the figures you cite and there’s definitely a rich kid ghetto vibe around them. Interestingly, public schools had a big resurgence over the years as more parents moved into the city and got involved in the system.
Many of the traditional quality metrics for elementary schools have been converging between public and private schools in the wealthier zip codes. Middle schools and high schools are integrated, so the immediate neighborhood is less of a concern but some of them are blue ribbon and e.g. IB certified. High school la are their own animal with AP courses meaning that you can have highly variable results in the same school.
As to the outcomes, I’m not read up on the latest studies, but if memory serves the difference pretty much disappears when controlling for income and charter school performance (where socioeconomic considerations are most comparable) tend to show worse performance in public peers despite selection bias in favor of charter schools. Accommodation may not be a huge overall factor, but I know a few families that had to withdraw kids from private schools because those couldn’t accommodate behavioral and learning challenges.
All in all it’s hard to compare apples to apples.
in my country (Europe) private schools are practically for rich kids that struggle in public schools. Basically, your child fails in a public school: next year you move him/her in a private school and he/she will get promoted. Basically a "pay 2 pass" deal. You can imagine that the standards are not quite as high as in the public schools. Thus, private schools are associated with "low standards" and easy schools.
I am suprised that private schools are for premium education in other countries. Thus for the brightest or the wanna be brightest. Clearly the opposite
In hometown in the U.S. South, there is one reason above all others people choose to send their kids to private school: racial segregation. But the parents will only openly admit that very rarely and privately.
i (german) dont even need to watch this: while in the US private schools might be a better choice for quality education, not so sure though, in germany they are not. if you go to a private school in germany, you will pass everything, because you basically paid for the degree, whether you learn anything or not. so people coming from private schools are not being taken that seriously regarding their skills (this especially goes for universities).
but i would go for a private kita/kindergarten as they offer additional languages and more commitment than just babysitting.