Homeschooling: BANNED in Germany, POPULAR in America?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 06. 2024
- Homeschooling in America is more popular than ever before. But this alternative education option is outright banned in Germany due to child welfare concerns - with some German families facing fines and prison time for practicing it.
Episode 83 | #homeschooling #homeschool #education #germany #unitedstates #expatlife #americaningermany | Filmed November 10th, 2022
Jump to your favorite Part:
00:00 Intro
02:24 Homeschooling in the USA Weird Regulations
08:00 Why Homeschooling in Germany is Illegal
09:58 The Crazy Story of the Wunderlich Family
12:06 Junk Science: Studies on Homeschooling are Problematic
17:59 Can Americans homeschool in Germany?
19:30 Exceptions to Germany's Homeschool Ban
20:51 The final debate
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The German law that made school attendance compulsory was created to protect the children of poorer/working classes. Their parents were no longer allowed to send the children off to earn money or help on the fields as cheap labour, which happened to a lot of children before the law came into effect. Instead they got the opportunity to get a proper education, which qualified them for more than physical labour.
This is actually nonsense. The law was made by the Nazis in 1938. The Nazi Party viewed homeschooling as anti-nationalistic, counter to the identity of the state and a conduit to less loyal citizens. Moreover, Hitler recognized the power of state-controlled education, saying âHe alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.â
The same reason the UK brought in a minimum age for education and for consent. It meant no more children in factories, mines or brothels.
Those laws were enacted for different times, back when the Western wortld was much more agrarian. Such laws are superannuanted today.
@@friedrichdergroe9664 "Such laws are superannuanted today." Reading you other comments I get the impression that your actual point is more like "oh, the good ol' times"
That took place as early as the late 1700s or early 1800s. Even the military had a say in that issue as they wanted their recruits to be able to read orders or instruction books for their arms.
I was homeschooled from elementary through high school in the US, and honestly I don't have the highest view of the way a lot of us in our homeschool circles were taught. Religious fundamentalism and suspicion of authority were major themes in the curriculum and instruction we received. I graduated 8 years ago, and I'm still discovering things I should have been taught.
The parents of my homeschooled friends loved to point out the SAT/ACT numbers and the other performance metrics you brought up in the video, but I don't think any of them even realized there might be flaws in the studies reporting the numbers they loved so much. I wasn't really taught how to evaluate a source for reliability, quality, and bias in my homeschool career.
Overall I'm not a fan, it was a fairly isolating experience.
I wasn't really taught how to evaluate a source for reliability, quality, and bias in my -homeschool- public school career.
At least not that I can remember.
That said, I still think mandatory public schooling is generally a good idea. I was bullied in school, but I also know that my parents could *never* give me the education I craved.
Suspicion of authorities? So, you DID learn something useful!
_"Religious fundamentalism"_
Like what is wrong with that?
_"I wasn't really taught how to evaluate a source for reliability, quality, and bias in my homeschool career."_
I wasn't taught very much in my carreere in public school on that.
_"it was a fairly isolating experience."_
Are you a fan of Blimy Cow?
@ Since we are on CZcams: Do you read comment sections of English language videos on YT? I have the impression that discussions on German language/media videos show overall a much more critical response. Not in the sense that people criticise, but in that arguments tend to be evaluated critically instead of the usual sending of tribal messages.
That has nothing to do with home schooling, it's too recent a trend in the USA to have an impact. I remember that most of what I did in non-technical subjects in school was to consume information (books, sources, etc.) and then learning to reproduce them in my own words followed by discussing the topic in class. That was daily routine.
This focussed training had a huge impact on how I'm doing my job, even though that is not related to processing text or writing. On the other hand, I have deficits in memorisation and if I was not curious by nature, I would have a lot of deficits in passive knowledge (historical dates? Ugh.)
If I compare this with what I saw from education systems that have a different focus (France, former french colonies, US) and if I assume that my observation is not based on bias, then this has a huge impact.
I also did not learn explicitly how to evaluate the credibility of source, but discussing a subject based on a source did the job well enough and awareness that sources should not just be trusted is just math.
I was also bullied in school. I guess most if not all of us were. But I also experienced that most of the time there was someone, a teacher or another kid who stood with me. I have a lot of discussions about bullying with my kids and their teachers. If my kids bully each other at home, they usually hear something like 'guys, stop that' rather than a discussion about justice and teachers that we actually have at least once a week. I also bullied kids in school, but it didn't really worked out well, so somebody taught me to behave.
German teachers have to go through a long qualification process. You need a master's degree as well as a 18 month training with guided teaching and a lot of demo lessons.
So the standards are pretty high even for elementary schools. Another argument is that school enables children a lot of opportunities for social interaction and cooperation. So school is considered as not only an institution for learning but also essential for socialization.
Not to mention that a lot of parents who insist on home schooling are basically religious fanatics. Not all of them, but enough that the mental safety of children is a honest concern. It is dangerous to give parents the opportunity to isolate their children and monitor every single contact they have. In the schools, they learn to interact with each other, and with a lot of different children. And how badly it impacts children if that social interaction is taken from then, that is something we have seen during Corona.
One could also mention that German teachers usually swear an oath on the German basic law which is essentially the constitution and one of their tasks is to teach theses values at least implicitly.
@@Funaru Not 'basically'. It *is* the German constitution.
@@swanpride That religious preferences are tied to homeschooling is absolutely correct. It's just a method for inculcating beliefs into a captive audience (your children) who have no choice in the matter.
Teacher in Germany teacher. I am teaching politics and French at Gymnasium and Realschule. I can confirm that becoming a teacher is no joke, the master's degree is one step, but the Referendariat (1,5 years as a sort of teacher in training with exam and formation) is another level above.
I can confirm that a lot of our subjects like religion and the alternatives, politics, history etc. are specifically designed for the students to develop their "MĂŒndigkeit". It is a very German concept that has legal definitions but in school, it also means: "being a autonomous and responsible citizen". To the distaste of very right wing parents, it does also include education about the Holocaust and the development of critical thinking and racism prevention.
One major aspect of forbidding homeschooling in my oppinion is that the children are "confronted" with different oppinions and views early on (through teachers, friends and their families etc.).
This means that children learn to tolerate other views to a degree. Which is an important part for society in my book. For me it looks like it is very common in these days in the US that many people do not accept that other people have a different viewpoint (political or religous and others ...) and it is all to often that they try to force their own views on others.
_"This means that children learn to tolerate other views to a degree"_
I have seen so much how public school educated people (except the minority who are creationist) get _intolerant_ of both creationism and homeschooling.
_"Which is an important part for society in my book."_
Whatever value there is in teaching tolerance is best served by allowing homeschooling and by allowing both bully victims and bullies to leave school, or more properly allow bullies to get kicked out of school (no chance of "see if you make progress if we give you hours with a shrink" cop-out).
@@hglundahl you are a lunatic und you know i! The church, creationism and every other -ism are not known for tolerance, that's a fact.
@@hglundahl kicking bullies out of school is how you end up with a large number of uneducated, unemployed people in society, who have no way of ever catching up and finding a job. So best case scenario they have to live off taxpayer money their whole life and worst case (and probably more likely) they become criminals. Dangerous ones most likely, because they again lack the education for smarter victimless crimes...
Also bullies are part of life. Even as an adult, not all people you meet are nice and reasonable. So you need to learn to deal with it, regardless of whether or not it is nice to see your kids getting bullied once. Better it happens once and they learn to deal with it, than it happening their whole life.
@@hglundahl _"I have seen so much how public school educated people (except the minority who are creationist) get intolerant of both creationism"_
Yeah, funny how education makes people intolerant of blatant bullshit... Kind of like finding out that the "truths" someone has been telling are actually demonstrably false makes you distrust them. Funny how that works, huh?
I _will_ however agree that bullying isn't dealt with anywhere near enough. But just taking either bullies or their victims completely out of school is a terrible idea. Victims can at worst still go to another school, there is zero reason to rob them of everything a good school gives them. And even when it comes to the bullies themselves - they're still children and don't know any better, why should some mistakes ruin their future chances this badly? What needs to happen _much_ more is that teachers are held responsible for _any_ bullying going on while the children are entrusted to them for not only a good education, but also for their physical and mental well-being.
@@hglundahl Err, yeah, if there are obvious falacies, both logical and factual, in creationism then pointing those fallacies out, isn't only a necessity, but relevant. In this case it is not intolerance of creationism per se, it is the inacceptance of falsehood as truth. As such, yepp, that is an incredibly good thing to achieve.
German here with no children. First of all, congratulations on this very balanced, well researched and overall outstanding video on a difficult and emotional charged topic!
My thoughts on the differences between the USA and Germany (and many other European countries) on homeschooling can be explained by the different values concerning government, family, and children. The German society and most of the Germans view the state - Bund, LĂ€nder und Gemeinden - as something that belongs to everbody and has to take care of all people in Germany. It is always a balancing of interests between the best interests of the child (Kindeswohl) and the rights of the parents.
The current (2022) coalition government has picked up on this through proposing to amend our constitution in (Artikel 6 Absatz 2 ) by the following: "The constitutional rights of children, including their right to develop into independent personalities, shall be respected and protected. The best interests of the child shall be given due consideration. The constitutional right of children to a legal hearing shall be preserved. The primary responsibility of parents shall remain unaffected." However, This propostiion did not obtain the required 2/3 majority.
Nevertheless, the overall attitude in Germany is that best interests of the child are more important than the parents' right over the destiny of their children and that the parents are not the only once who defines the best interests of their children.
My thoughts on the situation concerning homeschooling in the USA is that this reflects the overall difference on the attitude to the government: The government should stay out of the family's affairs and the only the parents have the right to decide where and how their childern are schooled. So, in short, for Germans the importance of society vs family favors - in comparision to the USA - more the society.
So, in the end, it all comes to different values. If we look at Hofstede's cultural differences concerning the individualism vs collectivism dimension one can cleary see that the USA is extremely favoring individualism. Germany, on the other hand, is only slightly leaning towards individualism. One might (slightly) mockingly say that for Americans Germany is a socialist dictatorship while Germans see the USA as a pure form of inhuman exploitative capitalism.
This is an EXCELLENT comment!! Thank you so much for this perspective.
I agree. In the end it comes down to the value that is placed on individual freedom vs the common good (or the conviction on how to best maximize the common good :-).
the US is just a lot more freedom focused (in a certain way).
same goes to gun ownership and many other regulationsâŠ
I agree, however I believe there should be more room for exceptions. My eldest is a good student, but extremely unhappy in school. During Corona, when we had to homeschool our girls, she blossomed. She didn't want to go back to school when lockdown ended, and we ended up dragging her to psychologists and therapy, and she accepted that she had to go back to school. She still hates it, and her positive attitude she had during lockdown vanished. Her doctor strongly recomended to send her to another school, but I tried everything. I just wish I could help her, but unfortunately there's no private school with a different concept nearby. Unfortunately moving isn't possible for us at the moment. And homeschooling is not allowed. It is affecting our whole family and there's no way out for us.
There will always be children who are more introverted than others and don't feel very much in school. But...
How is someone else supposed to learn to work with others?
This may not be as necessary in the future as it used to be, but you can't live your life as an island. There will always be people later on with whom you have to work together, even if you don't like them.
The earlier you learn to deal with it, the easier it will be.
I speak from experience, I hated my school days, not so much the classmates as the stubborn teachers who did not want to go beyond their routine.
I think there are good points for both sides:
of course itâs a pretty stark intervention into the parents freedom. it can feel like an intrusion into the family.
on the other hand, some children also might need protection from their parents, so this can be also seen as a protection of the childrenâs freedom. their right to get socialized into society, being confronted by others opinions and world view.
again, from the parents side, they might argue their kids could be indoctrinated into the âwrongâ world view.
now in Poland with the government there taking an extreme right / conservative swing, many parents now prefer to take education into their own hands. which is legal there.
of course it requires one of the parents to not work I guess.
either way. as long as the official world view is more or less your own, itâs hard to understand why people donât want their kids to go to school. In the US there is a general skepticism toward anything government in large parts of society, so itâs clear that there home schooling is seen as normal/required.
maybe also historically with many people living in remote areas, it might have been a necessity.
Germans generally like rules, authority and believe in the greater good of at least some kind of conformity.
at the end it boils down to the child greater good. and being homeschooled without having an actual choice (most kids just assume as normal and correct whatever their parents do until puberty) can be very isolating and
cause damage thatâs hard to repair later in life.
so generally I think itâs good to make school mandatory. as it would in generally help a society keep together better. to have a common cultural Kanon.
otherwise some parts of societies (immigrants, certain religious groups) might distance themselves even further and further from
the core of society. when people stop debating for lack of even meeting and being confronted with each others ideas⊠that is probably not healthy for society or democracy.
As a Canadian who homeschooled my kids up to grade 10 they did very well once they entered public high-school. My daughter has mostly 90s and excelled in math. It's a myth that homeschoolers aren't socialized, in fact they learn to interact with various ages instead of being insulated with their age group. Adults have commented on their decent and respectful behavior. I'd say those are important soft skills.
If your childreen have done well, thats because youve done well. But not all parents do. There are neglective and even abusive parents. Parents could also have low education, unable to draw out the full potential of their child cuz of their own limitations. Homeschooling has to occur under a strict set of regulations and the state has to at least doublecheck if the education is indeed being properly conducted. And this is not the case in the USA.
Here lies the real problem. You did it well because you made so. You cannot guarantee that others do the same. Every idiot can become a parent but to become a teacher you have (at least in Europe) to study a long time!
It's the same argument with monarchy (without a parliamentary) vs. democracy. You get a great monarch, all is well. Your monarch is an idiot, you live in hell until that one dies or gets killed.
In a democracy the people may vote poorly but then it was their choice and there's still the possibility to vote differently (unless they go completely dictatory but that's another story... *looking to my neighbour Hungary*).
I teach youth age students at a homeschool co-op. The core attitudes, behaviors and learning eagerness of home schoolers are superior to public school youth. I have worked with both groups over the years. The homeschoolers are different in social skills, but not in a bad way. Quite the opposite, they work well together and behavior issues are absent when I teach high schoolers.
@@leehughart3160 Tbh, thats actually rather signicant. Social learning is the process by which humans learn proper social behavoir and childreen naturally do this a lot more then adults. They are very likely to adopt social behavoir they see in other, if within that society, its viewed as good social behavoir. I myself have experienced how social learning can affect oneself for the worse, if you associate with the wrong people at young age. And ofc when there are many childreen and few adults around, the childreen will teach each other mostly childish behavoir, which results in a creation of an enviroment where childish behavoir is the norm. A homeschooled kid would have much more adult influence and thus would also behave more grown and like and adult. I havent seen many valid arguments for homeschooling, but this could actually be one, because this is something that, no matter how you change the school system, would not change in schools.
@@bimbelimbim4998 The adult influence on social behavior is significant. For public schools, this is an increasing problem. I see several factors. Unfortunately, the social behavior of the teachers has deteriorated. The lack of moral agreement in society will continue to cause the adults to degenerate. Also, the expectations on the students' social/moral behavior has fallen (poor theories on child discipline). Further, the ratio of adult to student is hard to overcome for schools.
The other week in co-op, working to build a tower in pioneering class with two teams of students, I had to work with the framing team and could not get over to the flooring team. My ratio with the students was 1:14. It made me realize just how difficult overcoming the ratio is. The flooring team did great on their own. Homeschoolers tend to learn self-starting skills. But teachers in public school are working with crushing numbers of students.
Tbh...i went to a german public school....the friendships and connections i made in schools last till today ...30 years later, i have friends workin at all kind of branches to whom i can turn for advice or help if needed.... With the bonus that some work in the same field of profession. If you know how freindships work in germany , then you konw that public schools can provide you with a realy wide network of contacts which exist for a lifetime.
This is also one of the reasons we bought a house and put down more "permanent" roots for Jack. We will enroll him in our local school and look forward to him growing up with lifetime friends.
Hello and good morning
I agree 100% . But there is a wider field of possibilities to make friends in Germany. Because in the clubs, for example sport or music, you are able to meet lots of people from outside your school.
@@hansjanko7966 But normally your not clubbing until your 15/16 or so đ. The strongest and longest lasting friendship I built was when I was 12-14. And it started for the most part in school but was solidified in extracurricular activities like sport, music or scouts. It probably depends on your personality.
We still meet once a year with friends from that time in school no matter where everybody now is living.
@@Al69BfR I was 14 when i went the first time to a Rock concert ;-) and also to the Jugendhaus for the Saturday afternoon dance party đ. But you are right, the friendships were build at the age of 12-14.
@@hansjanko7966 Yeah, with fourteen I started playing in a band myself and of course also have visited a concert in our local Jugendzentrum. And I also went to the âTanzcafĂ©â of our local dance school on Sundays. Thatâs when my mother had a hard time to drive me all around our city back and forth between rehearsals, the gym, the local pool everywhere where I couldnât get by local transportation.
As someone who really suffered in the public school system I wish I could have been homeschooled. I was bullied for my appearance and had very severe social anxiety as a result but absolutely no teacher or other adult cared, some even joined in with the bullying because they were chummy with the students. I dropped out immediately when the obligation to attend school ended, it was hell.
Likewise, I really wanted to homeschool. I went to a good school with good teachers, but my "peers" were not my peers and I felt it deeply. Even when kids weren't being mean, I was very out of pace with everyone. Talked to my teachers more than my classmates.
I was bullied, too. But I was bullied more at home. In school at least the teachers were nice to me and taught me stuff I was interested in. If my parents had had the chance, they would have taught me that Hitler was a good man, women are inferior to men and the would have prevented me to know that at age 18 I am free. Although there were bullies I felt safer in school than at home. If children don't go to school, nobody will notice if they have bruises, they have no adult at all they can trust if their parents mistreat them or give them false information, ...
How are you today? Hopefully in conditions of freedom, you slowly recover and get back on your feet :) Best tools: lots of happy learning (unlike this at school), and lots of friend (who you choose yourself! unlike at school) :)
I went to a German public school and I had massive bullying experience. more than 20 years after I left the school I still struggle with social anxiety issues. But even after all the negative experience I have made and all the issues I still have, I am still in favour of the German compulsory school attendance law. My personal experience is no reason to deny the the benefit of regular school attendance.
I'm really sorry to hear about your bullying experience. Although it is very hard to stop completely, I very much am in the camp that schools should do more to curb bullying and help to support children in their physical and emotional wellbeing - especially now-a-days when online cyber bulling is getting harder to track but easier to get away with.
â@@TypeAshton There are way too many moving parts involved in bullying to combat bullying effectively. When I was at school in the 90s teachers had little to no real understanding of bullying, which of course favoured the bullies. More awareness on all fronts would help way more, including at home, in schools and in society.
I really can't blame anyone in particular for the things that happened and realistically just get to a point where I can live a happy life.
@@TypeAshton At my school the teachers were the greater bullies.
@@nirassas I totally understand that. I experienced the same things and even though my teachers and parents were well aware of what was going on and tried to help, it really wasn't working too well. One of my teachers even had a project week on the 3rd Reich, bullying etc. including a course by the WeiĂer Ring that taught how bullying works and how it feels etc. but it didn't change a thing. It got better after some guy left the Gymnasium after 10th grade and after I spent a year in the USA, but the bullying never stopped, it only got a little less. Maybe I eventually found people to surround me with that I got along with and just wasn't as bothered as much as before.
Now, about 20 years later, I thought I had worked over most of that, but had one occurence at work that brought everything back. That was a real bad day, and I didn't feel like going to work the next. I did go and stayed with the company for about another year. (My colleagues weren't even aware that some things they said in jest were triggering me. They didn't mean any harm and there was hardly anything directed at me.) It was the right thing to go to work the next day, but I wasn't feeling well with all those bad feelings coming back.
Luckily, by now I understand better why I had to experience all that. I always knew I was different and at least part of that is explained by now. I'd also like to take another test to verify another thing that I suspect me of (high to very high intelligence, which kinda let me to always get to grads and not having to learn at all) and that probably got the other students to dislike me even more.
I actually also think I learned a lot through those experiences. Like it social standing isn't as important as work results. Social standing comes and goes without much you can do and you can put way too much effort into trying to keep it. (I'm not talking of how people view you helping other or such things, but rather "Beliebtheit", fanboyism etc. which is very volatile.) I also learned to differentiate between true friends and people you know. I may know a lot of people, but a true friend is a rare thing you should treasure. I also learned that looks aren't as important. I found quiet a few people I got along with and spent a lot of time with, that weren't dressed in the newest stuff etc. Most wouldn't have given them a second thought, but boy, some of them had some real hidden talents! So, I don't judge people by looks, I always give a second chance to prove that they are nice people. Many people are nice and want to be nice. And through all I experienced that being nice just makes people be nice back. Like, smile at people and they will eventually smile back, maybe even greet. Especially if they realize, that you don't care what they look like (I mean, clean would be good, but I don't care about the age of clothing or the design etc.), that you care for them as who they are. I don't know if others learned that from bullying, but looking back, thinking on it, that's some of the conclusions I arrived at.
@@nirassas _"There are way too many moving parts involved in bullying to combat bullying effectively"_
Except of course by homeschooling.
There is no homeschooling here in Iceland. Furthermore there is only one set of schools until you get to the secondary system schools. Everybody goes to the same type of compulsory school and rubs shoulders with everybody else until 16 or tenth year. There is one catholic school, but that has to run the standard curriculum. No "elite" school for elites. No choice what the children are taught. Leaving the school system after compulsory school, you learned 2 foreign languages and quite a bit of science.
I personally think that parents have no rights to exclude their children from knowledge, social interaction and so on. I of course do not believe that religion affiliation does give parents special rights.
My example is, preventing children from learning about evolution or other science.
Secondary education is typical 4 years, with some exceptions 3 years. A lot of science and at least 3 foreign languages. I would compare the level with first or second year of a liberal arts college in the USA. That is for the kids on the way to university.
All in all everybody is going to the same school during the first 10 years of schooling. It adds to the cohesion of the Icelandic society.
This is SO fascinating because in many US States there is not required registration or notification to the state that you are homeschooling your child, nor do they check up on what you are teaching (some do, but some don't). I agree, that especially to function in a democratic society, we should have a basis of education that not only encourages social interaction and tolerance but also embraces science.
"I personally think that parents have no rights to exclude their children from knowledge, social interaction and so on. "
I provided that for my homeschooled kids. Do not parents have the right to do this for their own kids in lieu of the compulsory state that cannot be held accountable for the outcome?????
@@friedrichdergroe9664 If you do that, that is fine. But parents in the USA are allowed to keep children from learning what the parents do not approve of. So if the parents are religious nut jobs they teach creation, a belief system, as science instead of evolution. Or others do not teach about the murky parts of history. If there would be a minimum curriculum parents have to follow, the situation would perhaps be different.
There is to much talk about parents rights and to little of parents responsibilities. Children have the right to get a comprehensive education.
Sending kids to school does not exclude parents from teaching additional skills or send the children to for example church or other religious based courses.
We taught our children additional math and other science and their fourth foreign language. Or I could call it teaching them their mother tongue, German, as different from the local language, Icelandic.
It's the overall responsiblity that we all have to keep the society functional. One important way to do it, is to have overall school education standarts for every child. And I think iceland and maybe other scandinavien countries do it great. Here in Germany it is not bad, but not as good as it could be. And social competence is as important as academic knowledge. With a social competence you don't need guns or Jesus to solve problems....
@@friedrichdergroe9664 No, they don't have the right. I have lived with two teachers, and teaching is a very complicated matter. You have to study years before even allowed to teach and that is without experience gained over many years. Furthermore there is no check on the progress of children. For me, the right of children to have a good schooling and social interaction goes way beyond the right of parents to do homeschooling.
There is that half-exception for children in circuses and hospitalited children.
They usually attend a circus school and hospital school.
They are taught by a licensed teacher, but the groups are much smaller, a lot of grades mixed together.
For smaller circuses that don't have a circus school, they visit school wherever they are currently located.
It is also worth noting that all of the exceptions usually attend "Fernschule" which is distance teaching with qualified teachers.
Yes! The difference is WHO teaches, Not how. Have a teacher, everything is fine. Be a parent assuming to know what and how to teach your kid, no. đ
Glad to see this comment. I was curious About children who physically Canât attend school. Too bad thereâs not enough teachers in the USA to cover normal school let alone these sort of remote groups.đ
From the US: I was almost entirely homeschooled, but not for religious reasons. My mother had a teaching degree and worked as a teacher prior to homeschooling my siblings and me. Yet I have never met another person who was homeschooled who did not have an incredibly warped worldview which approximated well-intentioned isolating propaganda. I think I turned out fine: went to a really good university (didn't take the SAT or ACT though), graduated with great grades, etc. But I have seen too much of my fellow homeschooled and their education to think homeschooling is in any way socially desirable and I would fully support strict regulations or outright banning it.
You consider doubts on evolution "isolating propaganda"? Keep in mind, what's more popular isn't always truth, my friend.
I'm with the German government in this case. There are just too many cases in the USA of religious families isolating their children from outside influence and therefore from other children. Additionally the most popular home school curriculum for religious families comes from Ken Ham, who teaches young earth creationism and denies evolution.
Another concern, even though it is not real homeschooling but close to it, is school attendance for religious groups like the Amish. They have their own schools which teach only basic knowledge and only for 8 years. Even though this is in line with the idea of religious freedom, in my opinion this is child abuse, because it robs those children of all their potential (and of the religious freedom of those children).
I found it quite shocking that there are some US states where there is no oversight of the homeschooling system - which I would worry would leave a door open for abuse situations, especially when you consider the majority of reporters of child abuse are teachers.
In a documentary I watched recently, a father had pulled his son out of school, said he was 'homeschooling' but did no such thing. This child never received an education past 6th grade and struggled for the rest of his adult life because of it.
As a child in Germany, I realized that my parents didn't understand the subjects I was studying and that I should explain to them what we learn at school (my parents = born just before the start of World War II, sometimes went with 50 peers in one class and learned in two shifts = mornings or afternoons) . Helping our own children with their homework worked quite well in all subjects up to the 6th/7th grade. , after that only for some subjects. Later we were only "good for proofreading" ;) (Bachelor thesis, Master thesis).
Incidentally, it always helped a lot when our children had to "explain" to us what they were learning. Partly we learned new methods and partly this consolidated the knowledge of our children.
Hamanime look up the Hacidic community if you think the amish are bad.
I find your preference for government control over individual freedom frightening. Your excuse is that some people abuse their freedom, in your eyes. I say the price you pay for living in a free society is that some people refuse to do what you want them to do.
@@TypeAshton Your last example is unfortunate. You are aware, of course, that there are many examples of whole school districts where the children graduate while reading and writing at a sixth-grade level or worse.
Itâs shocking that safety is the nr 1 reason to not send your child to school in the us and choose for homeschooling instead. School should be one of the safest place for a child to be. Personally, I am not a fan of homeschooling. However, being dutch i think i donât have much complaining to do on the quality of our education. Especially compared to other western countries. Thanks again for this insightful video!
Schools in the US vary widely from state to state, and can vary county to county as well. Funding in large part comes from local property taxes, which increases the gaps in the levels of resources that support the students' learning. Meanwhile, teacher training varies, and there is no guarantee that the teacher will have fewer prejudices than the parents, or be competent to defuse bullying... and if the school does not have money for repairs, the buildings can be defective.
Safety IS the top reason that parents will choose homeschooling, and that includes safety from bullying and harassment.
As an American teen that is being home schooled but has been to public school for years, I always felt unsafe in public school. The amount of times I have been on lock-down due to active shooters and bomb threats is alarming. Until the US makes schools a safer place for kids to be (I 100% support stricter gun regulations.) I think homeschooling will remain a popular choice.
@@caileypangburn8920 That's a serious issue, but it's basically not a problem caused by schools but by the gun craze.
Not being a Fan and not allowing it, is different.
Homeschooling should be allowed.
I do think that "safety" can mean many different things. Religious parents might overstate safety concerns to justify their religious instruction, and "safety from other ideas" might also come into the fold, fundamentalist parents might consider "difference" as dangerous, like "safety from LGBT ideas" or "safety from immorality".
I wanted to offer my perspective as a secular homeschooling mother in the US. First, I have a college degree (in education) which qualifies me to homeschool in my state. Our state also has requirements for what must be taught if you homeschool. However, the homeschool laws and requirements vary largely by state. I do wish there was more regulation of these laws at the federal level, because states with little regulation do have kids who slip through the cracks which is terrible.
Second, the reason I homeschool is because my oldest child is twice exceptional with autism (meaning he is gifted and has a disability at the same time). For kids who do not fit in the typical mold for the public education system, school can be a very traumatic experience. My son started reading on his own at age 2, and had a college level understanding of astronomy at age 5. So when it came time to enroll him in kindergarten, we were at a crossroads. We didn't want him to be spending 6 hours a day learning things he had known since he was a toddler, then be held back through his entire school career by being forced to slog through the standard curriculum at the same pace as his peers just so everyone could stay on the same page. He has advanced intellectual abilities, and delayed motor skills and social skills. So his needs are all over the map and putting him in a cookie cutter regular public school would be like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. So we made the decision to homeschool, and it has been the best decision we could have made for our son. He is thriving because we can meet him where he's at with his all-over-the-map needs.
What people often don't understand is that homeschooling is not necessarily what it used to be. There are so many resources and programs now in place to support homeschooling families. Our school district, like many these days, offers an alternative school called a parent partnership. They are state funded alternative schools put in place specifically to support homeschooling families. They offer a plethora of classes for students to take to supplement their homeschooling. We are enrolled in our district's parent partnership and my kids go to school and take classes a few days a week, so they get a typical classroom experience with certified teachers part-time to supplement what we are doing at home. It really is the best of both worlds. The kids are getting the socialization they need, but are being met academically where they are through homeschooling. It's a great program and it attracts many familes like ours whose kids don't fit the mold.
For those who don't go the parent partnership route, there are tons of homeschool co-ops where parents have banded together to teach subjects cooperatively in a group setting. So the kids are still getting that social aspect. So while I'm sure there are some families who don't participate in a parent partnership or co-op and whose children are isolated, more often than not these days, homeschooled kids are part of a community.
So there are a growing number of familes like ours who are homeschooling for non-religious reasons. And with the resources available to homeschoolers these days, it really can be done well and produce well-adjusted, well-educated kids. That said, there is still the religious facet of society that homeschools because they want to indoctrinate their kids into their narrow religious worldview. They want to freely teach that the earth is 6000 years old, and that evolution is false, and teach history from a whitewashed perspective. This is where the US is failing these kids. While some states have tighter regulation about what homeschoolers must teach and the kids must participate in standardized testing, some basically have no regulation at all and this is really harmful.
So as a homeschooling mom myself, I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. On the one hand, I am really thankful homeschooling is an option for kids like my son. I see so many kids thriving this way that might otherwise slip through the cracks in the public school setting. But on the other hand, I really wish there was stricter regulation of homeschooling at the federal level. That said, there are many European countries that do a fabulous job of achieving this balance, and I think we should be looking at those countries as a healthy model for how to keep homeschooling as an option for families who would like to choose that route for their children.
I am happy for you you do have the ability and knowledge to help your son. I do think it describes an equality problem as well tho. Because if your son did not have a mother with knowledge in education, what would then happen? Special need schools should be available for all those kids.
Where I grew up there was a special need school in the village, my brother who also had autism had extra needs and he went to a school in a city nearby, picked up every morning by a little bus, funded by the municipality. There are also these schools for children with a high IQ. Finance wise for the parents it works the same as public school.
German solution to this would be to allow early school attendance (so start a year early) and to jump classes to make up for the advanced abilities, and to get a accompanying person to take additional care of the kid at school for the social skills, and as far as possible adoption of the teachers approach to the child according to the way it is special as far as the job of the teacher, teaching 30 pupils in one go, allows this. Seems the enforcement of school attendance comes along with the obligation of the school to adopt to those kids wich are special in one way or another.
School environment. This is why I pulled out my elementary school aged son. I'll repeat that, ELEMENTARY school; 3rd grade. The situation was out of control and my son was very behind - he couldn't even read. I tried to work with the school but they claimed it was my responsibility to teach him. I asked, "so what is he supposed to be doing all day at school?" They wouldn't respond. Additionally, they couldn't deal with the bully issue; my son was getting jumped at lunch time. The responsible parties were getting suspended only to come back to school and continue the behavior. The school has cameras and the boys responsible were suspended 3 times. This is an elementary school! (At the time, my son is in junior high now.) At my breaking point I thought: Not only is the school unable to teach my son but they can't keep him safe. So I took him out and we've never look back. It was like night and day, his change was so drastic. He wasn't sullen or hyperactive anymore. He started to smile all the time, and he really came out of his shell. Now he's doing great and I am so happy I made the decision to homeschool.
in Poland, we now have thousands of similar cases with an on-line "school" for homeschoolers called Chmura (40,000 kids joined!). Kids who leave school feel free, better, happier and they restore their love of learning. We can now officially denounce coercive school as harmful for health and intelligence. Sadly, Germany lags at the end of the world in respecting freedom of their children!
In germany these problems would have been solved inside scool. Since there is no "valve" to "solve" the "Problem" by sending the suffering kid to home schooling, action against bullying, training of social skills, support of pupils inside scool including a personal accompanying person ("Schulbegleiter") are introduced to solve this with the kid remaining in school. So a different approach to this kind of problems.
I've had two (indirect) experiences with the US education system that make me think there's another reason home schooling doing well on the SAT/ACT doesn't mean much: the bar is not set very high!
The first was with a family member that had just barely passed the graduation from the lowest (difficulty) level of Dutch high school; somewhat comparable to Hauptschule to give you a reference point. He went to the US for one year of US high school experience and he was a grade A student there! As his Dutch education does not give him access to our universities, he went on to get a bachelor and masters from a US state university.
The second experience was a US high school graduate that was admitted to a Dutch university (if you're not Dutch the requirements are different apparently). She was in over her head on mathematics, since the university required the level of a 6-year gymnasium curriculum and what she had was roughly equivalent to where a Dutch gymnasium (VWO) student would be in the third year! As I completed two math heavy master's degrees and only lack the experience and pedagogy requirements for a gymnasium teaching permit, I did home schooling during her first year and over the summer to catch her up. (This was next to her attending university classes, as home schooling only is mostly illegal here as in Germany).
My impression of US math levels is not very positive to say the least. I know you catch up quick at good universities, as I've worked with college math graduates, and they end up at about the same level as we do at our master's degree.
I also discussed some physics and chemistry and it appeared from what I heard at least the same applies to those fields as well. Let's not start about history, if you listen to a US highschooler, you'd think the world was created in 1492!
The bar for an SAT I thus suspect cannot be very high, or none would pass.
Hm, there is one aspect about this, that might dampen your arguement, albeit not invalidate it entirely. My (german) math teachers at school always used to say that what they were teaching us, was university grade stuff in their day. And now that I have attended a university, I believe them. The baseline school set in terms of practical math skills was high enough to the point where we hardly had to ever exercise it to the fullest. In comparison though, theoretical math skills basically didnt exist in school. So basically the practical mathemathical education has been integrated from university into school in large part, leaving only theory at the university. What if however the same developement did not come about in the USA?
Nevertheless I too think it is deplorable to have such a big gap in education standards.
You're not wrong. American test scores only look good because the American school system has such low standards.
However, this is (as she pointed out) one of the main reasons parents cited for homeschooling. I know that is the case with me. A large reason I homeschool is because I have children who would be held back from pursuing their academic interests and abilities because it would put them ahead of others in their class. My oldest, for example, is regularly reading and studying college-level science textbooks at the age of 7, which he would be discouraged from doing in a public school setting. The things he would be learning in class are things he learned years ago, and children like that find themselves frequently engaging in dangerous behaviors out of sheer lack of stimulation.
I am in a state that requires standardized tests, and he is consistently scoring in the 95-96 percentile.
The SAT and ACT are mostly used for college admissions. I suspect thereâs selection bias, so only homeschooled children who are getting adequate education bother to take the exam. I think that public and private schools tend to guide everyone into taking the exam.
I went to private school in the U.S. and I've been shocked more than once by how low the math standards were in public schools. Now they're dealing with common core which a complete mess. A lot of U.S. parents ended up teaching their kids traditional math approaches on their own time.
You *can* get a good education in public schools, but you have to work for it. A lot of kids just get passed and increasingly left behind.
I love the logic in your videos. You're on a different level when it comes to objectively comparing life in different countries.
Really glad you enjoy the videos. I appreciate the kind feedback.
Growing up in Germany, home schooling wasn't even a concept I was familiar with, until I moved to the U.S. Even then, it wasn't something I became familiar with until the 80ies. From what I have personally observed, there was often a religious element involved in parents decision to home school. I had a customer who home schooled her 2 kids, and in this case I use the term schooled with some trepidation. The kids were assigned certain blocks they had to finish each day, and were sat in front of a computer or book to read about the subject. There was zero interaction, just learning by rote. I did feel like they were socially isolated, and it broke my heart. I know these groups get together for social and sporting activities, but it doesn't even come close to what public school children experience on a daily basis. Knowing, what I now know about them, it didn't surprise me, when they moved to an area that is considered extremely conservative and religious. I also have a branch of the family here, that home schooled their 2 kids. The mother has a teaching degree but also strong religious beliefs. Unfortunately, her now adult kids had and still have life skill issues and drug related issues. Ironically, after the mother home schooled her children, she is now teaching in the public school system. I'm not saying this happens in every home school environment but these are the issues I've personally observed and seen first hand. I'll have to side with the German view on education and the extremely important value of a child's successful development and integration into a versatile and multifaceted society.
Things have changed a lot in homeschooling since the 1980s. In America the amount of people homeschooling who are not religious is growing as well. I think people are fed up with public schools in America. They have become very politicized.
@@rabbitila7685 sad story. the fact is that homeschooling can be very bad or very good or anywhere in between. I do feel the children should have the opportunity to mix and mingle and be amongst peers. This will help them feel more normal in life. also want to point out lots of Americans have life skill issues and drug related problems anyway.....! đ„Ž
@@TEWMUCH it is very sad. Also depends on what you determine are drugs. The amount of illegal drugs isn't high considering population but we have a high usage of prescription drugs. I think (I could be wrong) America uses about 75 percent of prescriptions given worldwide. If that makes sense. All those drugs have side effects.
@Rabbitila wow. That's alot..yes we are a doped up society. I guess it depends on what pockets if the US u dwell in. But I've know drug addictions whether it's prescription or hard-core drugs to be pretty present. I agree it's not most ppl. But it is too many, in my opinion.
@@TEWMUCH Agreed. The world be a better place if no one was addicted to drugs. One person is one too many, in my opinion.
I've been homeschooled for a short time and I've known a number of homeschooled kids here in the US. I can honestly say it's all over the map as far as quality learning. I've met 12yr olds who can't read and 14yr olds who are taking college level classes. I like the idea of considering the need for social skills. I wish the US poor more effort into soft skills more universally in school.
AAAW. That's sad. yes, home schooling makes me nervous because it is given that there is going to be some incompetent and neglectful parent that is not going to make the child keep up with normal standards. 12 and can't read is not ok. đ at some point, it becomes child abuse and neglect.
@@TEWMUCH in some states they require even homeschooled kids to take states testing. I know in New York homeschooled kids get a regular tutor once or twice a week from the state. It really just depends on where you live. In my state is pretty open ended so it's a mixed bag on home school.
@Hope Howell yes. It needs to be regulated fairly across the board. Cuz that map where it said that some states require the parent to have a high school diploma and some don't?? Yikes! Cuz no way someone didn't finish high school can keep up with a high school curriculum well enough to teach it to someone else.
I was pleasantly surprised by the scientific critical remarks you had about the available statistics of US home schooling results in official tests.
Great job!!!
Schooling is a hot subject to discuss all over the world. The school-systems in the USA and Germany are not one to one comparable, the situation is different. By example, the biggest reason for homeschooling in the USA is that parents are afraid of physically and psychologically attacks on their children, there are some shooting at some schools, if I were living in the USA, I also would prefer homeschooling because of that. This danger is not the case here in Germany, our schools are safe even without armed security forces and check-ins of the students if they keep firearms, also our teachers are not adviced to carry guns with them.
This.
This
Exactly.
Former Texas teacher and now Latvian teacher, I don't mind home schooling but its not an option for lower socio - economic families. Was a good reasoning for Germany to have it compulsory in person education to have social interactions. I'm more used to the US using homeschooling, charter and private to have be an indirect way of defunding public education
In researching for this video I read quite a few articles discussing the socio-economic gap and how it effects homeschooling. Especially during the pandemic, affluent families could hire professional tutors, start "learning pods" and benefit from a lot more resources. I would also worry that it would widen the socio-economic gap between the "haves" and "have nots" (although arguably this already exists to some extent with the very pricy private/preparatory academies).
@@TypeAshton This is not a "worry", this is the dire, brutal reality, not only, but especially in BW. We are "closed schools world champions", and will fall to the standards of Bulgaria by midst of the decade, because Stuttgart has no idea how to make good for lost competences. If they repeat the PR stunt done for Kitas, resulting in "sorry, school closures were pointless" (as expected by modt pediatricians) we will see a lot of lawsuits.
Yes, I agree. US families where both parents work can't homeschool their kids.
@@TypeAshton This is my situation in the US. My husband and I moved to be close to his family during the pandemic when our jobs converted to remote. This has overall been great; for one thing, we could afford a mortgage for the first time rather than renting.
But now we are in a district with literacy issues: on average, the kids aren't reading at grade level. If we were to have kids, I'd be looking into a way out of this problem, either by visiting the expensive private school or investigating some kind of hybrid homeschool situation where I make sure my kid can read at level (likely also hiring private tutors from the university nearby) but he or she can still attend fun activities like art or sports at the school and make friends.
I'm especially alarmed because the national review board put the local high school at 2 out of 10 for literacy, and by comparison, my high school (in a different state) was rated 8 out of 10. If my high school is rated that high, then... wow. When I was in school, I was bored because the classes were too easy and my parents didn't allow me to skip a grade. Not only that, but it was overcrowded and it felt like going to packed zoo each day.
@@TypeAshton this is fairy privileged thinking my friend. Have you been to regular tax funded public schools is poor cities verses affluent areas haha the gap IS HUGE!! wake your pretty little naive head up. The poor people's children are drowning in unsafe unclean environments with vultures for administrators and teachers and con men and physically violent peers. Homeschool doesn't pose the greatest problem for their education the poorly funded public schools do. Who do you think educated their low socio economic parents. Smh I guess ignorance really is bliss. Carry on.
I knew two boys, who were homeschooled back in the 1970s, but this was an exceptional situation:
The father (a colleague of my late father) was a professor of geology at a German university and had a research project going on for two years in a remote part of Bolivia. He wanted to take his family with him, but there were no real schools available in this region.
So he and his wife got a special permit to school their children themselves. The teachers of the primary school they attended in Germany set up a curriculum and gave them the materials , so that the parents could teach their children the same topics they would have learned at home in the German school, so that they would be able to slip back into German school life after their return.
Both parents had relevant academic qualifications, which were considered sufficient for teaching their children.
I think the combination of academic achievements and the support of the school was the key and of course the missing adequate school nearby. I donât think just the academic achievements would have been enough.
For cases like the one described there nowadays exist deutsche "Fernschulen" (I know of one for primary and one for secondary school pupils). They prepare lesson packages (including all materials needed) for the children. Parents (or teaching assistents) supervise the learning (help structure the learning process, answer questions, etc), but the actual teaching is part of the materials. These schools follow German curricula and pupils coming back to Germany should be able to continue in regular schools.
Once again, a fascinating topic, thoroughly researched and well presented. Thank you!
I especially appreciate your understanding of statistics and source critique.
Hi Ashton! It is deeply refreshing listening to an academically schooled person who is able to debunk skewed data in an honest way. The very fact that an organisation supporting home schooling publishes data which in all honesty they must know has serious flaws should make people suspicious enough, in my mind. Cheers from Sweden!
Thank you for putting the studies you cite in context so well. That's really refreshing.
Well known US saying: "An attorney who takes his(/her) own case has a fool for a lawyer and an ass for a client."
In countries where licenced and well-trained doctors are not easily available (for whatever reason), life expectancy is a lot less and child mortality a lot higher.
So home-lawyering and home-doctoring is risky at best, even with online and/or occassional professional support. So why would home-teachering be different?
Of course everything depends on the professional skills of the licenced professionals involved.
I am an experienced home-handyman and well known for fixing or installing the odd switch or wall-socket. Even then on my last DIY-job I blew a main fuse. God beware if I'd pull something comparable on a student. I'm NOT a qualified electrician...
And yes, I've got a degree and Netherlands State teachers licence, qualifing up to high-school level. I believe it's also valid for Germany. And believe me, I'd never dare to take responsability for teaching anything to anyone in subjects that I'm not very well qualified for. (In the US I'd be BSc, BA, and BEd)
Oh, and I'm sorry I'm only qualified for GB English, not US. It might show.
Yes, it strikes me as incredibly cramped and narrow to be homeschooled but the situation in American public schools is totally contemptible at this point. While doing grad school in reading instruction I knew a woman who was a homeschooling advocate which puzzled me because she was a certified teacher. Frankly she struck me as being a religious crank and was entirely too churchy. She was so uptight she made nuns Iâd worked with look like party girls. I think I would inflict the public schools on any children I had simply to harden them to the realities of working with idiots in the wider world. And it strikes me as presumptuous to think that just one or two parents have sufficiently broad interests to be the entire tutoring staff for an online curriculum much less full blown UNSCHOOLING.
Another great topic and one that definitely deserves attention and maybe even a follow up series.
For instance why do some Americans push school vouchers/school choice instead of adequately funding public schools?
Or why do they not address the major concern/reason people homeschool (safety in schools)?
One thing I'm always amazed about is the lack of good data to make any determination of quality or effectiveness (not just for education but also guns or transportation/liveable & walkable cities etc) granted this is a general issue not exclusive to the US.
In my opinion making sure education (teachers and schools) is well funded seems to be the only logical thing to do as it benefits the entire population.
Just imagine missing out on the next Einstein or Hawkins just because they were born into a poor family..
Anyways loved the topic and the amount of research, keep up the great work!
Really glad you enjoyed the video. Perhaps in the future we can do another follow up to this.... because I think something a lot of Americans aren't even aware of is how much the system of taxation and funding affects nearly every aspect of their lives - particularly property taxes.
Unlike Germany, property taxes mainly stay in the municipality where they are taken - and schools are largely funded from these. So rich ares with high property values have more property tax revenue to spend on better roads, better schools, better infrastructure, better parks... etc. which then go on to attract more affluent families, raising the property values even more. This in effect makes it very difficult for low-income families to afford to move there.
In a few videos we have talked about how America is becoming more and more segregated by income .... and sadly this has profound effects on the differences in school quality and school environment from one area to another in the US.
@@TypeAshton definitely agree the way funding is done plays a major role in what opportunities (privileges) are granted to which socio-economic groups.
And as usual this is not limited to a single item (schools, healthcare etc).
To bad politics at times seem more interested in "feelings" and not what we observe through science which makes channels like yours (but also climate town and not just bikes) so important as they try to undercover what, why and how we can improve.
Didnât Einstein complain that the gymnasiums rote learning held him back?
@@TypeAshton Not true. The majority of states actually give money per student to each school plus property tax. For example in Ohio each school for grade school spends about 12,000 per student. The majority of the money per student is not from property tax. It's from the state and federal governments. Which we then pay for through other taxes. 12,000 dollars per student should be plenty to properly educate a student.
One reason why vouchers are pushed so hard is that some of the US's best performing schools are private and public charters. These schools generally obtain better results with less funding. They tend to have more structured learning and are selective about students that are accepted. So if a student acts up/performs poorly and the parents are uncooperative, they can get kicked. Since the learning environment is so competitive and learning-friendly, parents are lined up out the door to enroll their kids in these schools.
Some of these schools charge formal tuition and some of them are unable to function without additional financial support from parents due to low public funding. So parents want their tax money to go towards paying for their kid to go to a charter school instead of going towards their regular school, giving the charter schools the funding they need to support more students. Also, vouchers may give students from poor families a better opportunity for entering better schools that cost money.
Comparing the average education in both countries is an eye opener
I have mixed feelings. I was homeschooled in Ontario, Canada, and it worked great. We did use an American homeschool program to mark final tests in high school so that we had accreditation and I did a SAT (easy). I got into Engineering at the University of Toronto, one of the most respected universities in Canada. And am now doing a Masters.
On the other hand, I can respect where Germany is coming from. In general, I think the real problem is that the educations system in general has to to serve students who want to end up in post-secondary education like me (who want to learn integration, differentiation, and complex kinetic mechanics and physisc), students who don't really want to do any post-secondary (that's uncommon), and students interested more in college (vocational and skilled trades, like apprentice plumbers etc.), who all have different academic needs. As a result we don't challenger the would-be university students enough, who end of overloaded and unprepared for first year uni (feeling like they're thrown in the deep end), while the other students get to muich attention from teachers because they're struggling with stuff they maybe don't need to focus on, like Chain Rule and integration by parts (which I wish high school covered, though I had some prep from an AP course I did).
A good point here - the Germany system of three different "high schools" depending on academic achievement and outcome goal: Uni, trade school, etc. (I put in quotes because it's the American system, and not the German names). Since this is built in to their education model already, it already gives a more tailored academic instruction than what currently exists in the US.
@@TypeAshton On the other hand , the story of the Wunderlich Family seems extreme. Taking their kids away using armed police. But you have to be careful with information like that because it misses nuance. I'm pretty sure one could find tones of trash on Canada's social systems or the USA (most likely a lack thereof I'm guessing).
@@TypeAshton This is kind of describing it nicely. Basically at age 10 they decide which school you are going to based on how intelligent you are. If you are placed higher up you have all the options once you graduate. As for if you just qualify for basic highschool (Hauptschule) well...
My husband was homeschooled until high school. He both disliked it, and was grateful for it. I think the downside of homeschooling is that the experience and quality really comes down to the parents themselves. My friend homeschools due to her middle child not being able to attend the local public school (special needs). Her young kids are in sports, participate in community events, and do really well in their schoolwork.
I know many homeschool kids and there are VERY few that I would say were let down by their parents. In fact, most tend to be more involved in community, extra curriculars with more success and higher levels of learning before graduation. Many even choose to homeschool so the kids can pursue their passions easier. One girl won the youth world archery championship and did even more activities because she loved it. These kids are almost always more well spoken and even have a broader range of friends and relationships than their peers.
Thatâs the hard line to draw, many of these kids who are creative, driven and with willing parents would have missed out on amazing opportunities they WANTED if forced to attend public school. Which let us be honest, can be as restrictive on some as it is freeing for others. Public school can be lacking for some kids who need more from teachers, it can be mentally damaging for kids who are bullied and receive no in school support, etcâŠ
Pros and cons for both sides for sure.
Iâm German and I actually attended a permanent online school for 9th and 10th grade and did my standard qualified/extended Realschulabschluss. Itâs really uncommon and I had to fight a lot for it to be granted by the government. And honestly, most of the people at the Ămter I had contact with didnât even know that form of schooling existed, and how one could enroll. There were so many bridges to cross, like the state can mandate that you have to do out of school activities, so the child is not cut of from other children and to meet with so called âBetreuer/Erziehungsbeistandâ which is supposed to help with all the documents and/or family problems and just ensures everything runs smoothly at home (i.e. no abusive parents or something) and many more requirements. I personally think, that itâs great that there is a greater hurdle here in Germany, and the control is still pretty tight to make sure the children are well, but I also think it should become a bit more accessible to more people who need it, as it was a great way for me and my fellow âclassmatesâ to achieve what we couldnât in the normal system (for various reasons). :)
A fair point. I've never had any trouble at school, except for being constantly bored. I only came into my own learning pace at the university. But I know also quite a few people for whom the schools mood of education does/did not fit well. Some of them are quite intelligent and are now suffering from their lack of credile education, so they cant find jobs, that satisfy their intelligence as well as from a lack of actual knowledge. What pains me the most is, that I personally could instruct some of these people per their request or simply out of mutual interest, proving beyond any doubt that it would have been possible, meaning the school didnt do their job well.
Parents already have a huge impact on the development of a child. Sometimes even too much of an impact. I think it's important that children are forced to learn which thoughts and beliefs are considered to be normal in the society. This acts as a counter balance to the beliefs tought by the parents and helps to have a less extremism and more rational and science focused society. Also school system is a lot fairer (and still pretty unfair), if almost everyone has to go to the same school, no matter the status of their parents.
"If almost everyone has to go to the same school, no matter the status of their parents".
How exactly should the "status of the parents" - whatever you mean by this exactly - affect the school kids "have to go to"? And are you referring to the US or Germany here?
Home Schooling is popular to parents the parents that want to brain wash their kids and know the beliefs they are trying to instill in their children are easily debunked with common since and critical thinking that is not allowed in the dictatorship of a family home,
@@guyro3373 Public school is child abuse. My brother was homeschooling and has done exceedingly better than myself. I've spent decades unlearning what I was taught in public school. Both in terms of content and social conditioning.
@@blotto3422 I assume that you refer to the US (since, as the video points out, there is essentially no homeschooling in Germany).
While it is regrettable that you apparently had bad experiences, the question is whether they are attributable to public schooling per se (and your brother's achievement to homeschooling per se), so "as a principle", or a result of concrete factors. For example, your experiences might have been very different in a different public school, and your brother might have done far less well if your parents did a worse job at homeschooling.
I also 100% disagree with "public school is child abuse", although I can only speak from a German perspective. Apart from that, generalising from a personal experience is in most cases not scientifically sound.
@@guyro3373 I referred to both. The goal should be that all children sould get the same quality of education. Homeschooling needs either time or money and private schools need a lot of money. That alone is a reason why society shouldn't consider them as solution, even assuming that the provide higher quality education.
Thank you for that look at the research. It's the first unbiased look at homeschooling in the US that I've seen on You Tube.
As expected by now, superb summary of and comment on the current state of affairs. This includes both the research as well as the appealing visual presentation. With these in-depth examinations of topics at least partially political in nature you really occupy a unique space and you've managed to develop your own elegant style of discourse. Also, it's rare that a video from the US expat community in Germany, even if it's very good, doesn't prompt Germans to go "Well, actually ..." and offer detail-obsessed corrections. The fact that you manage to do this is indicative of the quality of your content.
Ah wow thank you very, very much. â„ïž
I see another point in the SAT... tests. If only a small percentage of homeschoolers take these tests, one can assume that mainly these students take part, who have received the correct(?) education. Which leads to a big part of homeschoolers probably not getting a comprehensive education, especially if it comes to strongly religious people.
I read a story of a girl in the US homeschooled with an emphasize on religion which came to a regular highschool after some family events and who was more or less helpless there regarding knowledge and everyday live.
Another thing you can often hear is that even some(?) US teachers themselves lack a lot of knowledge. How can a normal person without special education and coming from a highschool (at best) do teaching in all subjects ? I did Gymnasium und University and I would need a lot of work and study to do that in a feasible way for a child. It gets even worse for languages.
I have so many mixed feelings on this. Homeschooling is risky in my opinion, it leaves kids vulnerable but could also be a good alternative of the kid cannot function in a public or even private school. In America I can see a benefit in homeschooling due to the way American schools can be (school shootings, poor funding, and other issues). I also appreciate that some people homeschool because they want their kids to be exposed to more diversity/learn more accurate history (schools can be heavily influenced by state politics and in some areas schools can lack any real diversity). I have also seen kids fall through the cracks, be isolated, be unable to function in society due to the limited (and often extremely religious) education they received. Homeschooling can also be a very effective strategy for abusive parents to avoid their abuse coming to light. Child abuse is already underreported just due to the nature of it so not having other adults around to notice is is a huge issue. I also want to add another less common issue, I had a family member who homeschooled her kids for religious reasons, she died really suddenly and all of the kids that were being homeschooled at the time were moved to a private school. This most likely compounded on their trauma bc not only was their mother gone, they had to adopt a completely new way of learning (I also donât know how well this family member taught them bc I was young when all this happened). So yeah, very mixed feelings slightly leaning on the âanti-homeschoolingâ side overall.
Homeschooling should be allowed but with regulations.
Thanks so much for the video! I'm so grateful that you covered this interesting topic. My children have attended private, public charter, and homeschool so this is very interesting to me. Thank you for researching and presenting this.
Not surprisingly, we have the same in Czechia, only exceptions. Parents may choose school, these days even some "alternatives". But what's important,if someone gets the exception,the kids must attend regular testing and do exams in front of committee at a regular school.
Here in that seems similar (only exceptions + annual inspections). In Germany there is I think no inspections or tests when homeschooling is exceptionally allowed.
I live in Idaho and homeschooling is treated as a religious requirement in evangelical churches, where it is mostly used to prevent children from learning science and or historical facts that don't fit with their parents' political indoctrination priorities, which in this region range form theocratic christian nationalism or swastika toting fascism, through moderates, to eco-libertarianism. The unifying thread is religion.
Especially girls are homeschooled to prevent them from developing ambitions of career or personal freedom, which I think accounts for a part of the gap in college attendance and placement exams.
All that said, the USA has thousands of tiny towns hundreds of miles from real infrastructure that are much too small to support a proper school. Homeschooling in these communities is better than attending the single teacher run k-12 single room school. It's also FAR superior for educating a neurodivergent child that can't function in a normal school. The problem is that these people have almost no resources or support network because the homeschooled community is utterly dominated by the aforementioned crowd.
I love this video, thank you for making it. I was homeschooled and also spent 4 years in a church school that put every child in a cubicle so we had no interaction with anyone during learning time, which was all done with booklets. I'm pretty confident in saying that messed me up for life. I'd like to meet the person who invented those cubicles and tell him or her what I think. However, to be honest, the homeschool situation today is much different, and kids have what they call "co-ops" where they join other homeschool kids, and different parents teach different subjects, and they have a lot of social activities - they're not just at home. Anyway, I have to tell you, your video informed my husband that "United States" is a singular noun. He actually didn't know this, after 15 years of being married to me. I don't know how that slipped by. You said, "Why doesn't the United States...." and he said, "WRONG! It should be 'don't'!" Oh dear. I remained calm while he proceeded to form illustrative sentences that made it sound silly that it is singular.
The United States is plural in German, and I kept messing that up when learning German in Germany. I tried to explain to my teacher that it's singular in English. But my (at the time) A2 German level was not enough to explain. đ
@@chloeb1642 Oh, that's a sad story! Up until 1865 it was plural!: )
Yes. Many homeschool children have the opportunity to socialize with other homeschooled kids, as well as with public school kids in sports, etc. One main difference I see between myself (homeschooled) and my husband (public-schooled) is that it is natural for me to socialize outside of my demographic, age, race, socio-economic status, etc. whereas his socializing skills are very limited outside of those who look, think, and are the same age as him. He grew up in a public school in a small conservative town where basically everyone was white, middle class, and conservative. But I regularly interacted with people of all ages and across ideologies. Some of my best friends are old enough to be my mom and others are very different politically than I am. Now that he has graduated his Masters program, he is having to learn out to find friends in the real world... which is bizarre to me.
This isnt the case across the board for sure. Many homeschoolers are super isolated and many public schoolers are in large diverse districts. But it goes to show that stereotypes only go as far as the limited amount of variables that bring them about in the first place.
I am so impressed with your videos - it is no surprise that you are doing a Phd. You pay so much attention to the data, and presenting both sides
Hiđ I just wanna say, I love your videos because you research your topics so well and make it interesting to listen to you. I also enjoy reading the comment section bc people actually engage in interesting conversation.
Thank you for you workđ
Glad you liked the video! Thanks!
I also like the comment section and am often astonished that so many Germans answer in wonderful English on a high academic level. I can't compete and am also sometimes a bit overwhelmed with Ashtons videos. The comments on the video about religion are very interesting. But it takes hours to read them
@@TypeAshton Ashton, did you just watch the Terra X video about North America? The chapter about structural racism in the US, especially as housing is concerned? Really worth watching.
I find it odd that no one mentions school shootings as a reason to choose homeschool. My oldest child (14 year old) has autism and has a deep fear of getting shot at school. He can't relax enough to learn effectively in school because of fear.
The high school I taught in during the mid â80s was extremely violent even without any sort of mass shooting inside of the building. There was one shooting outside during a basketball game on the public sidewalk in front of the building. But at Job Corps we routinely got kids whoâd dropped out of the Chicago public schools because of the constant fighting. One girl in particular I remember was expelled from the Chicago system for whacking someone âupside the headâ with a lunch tray of the sort that college kids swipe from the cafeteria to go tobogganing down hills when it snows. Any school that fails to permanently expel any and all violent students is basically just a custodial institution for warehousing the useless because nobody can find anywhere else to stash them. Hence they turn all of the teachers into babysitters and social workers instead of academics. And no, keeping kids in school at all costs is not an absolute value if the school youâre keeping them in is monkey island at the zoo, Iâm sorry. The reductio ad absurdum of just passing everyone through to get their diploma no matter what inevitably results in people getting a false sense of security until their bubble is burst by flunking out of college freshman year because theyâre so illiterate they canât even pass freshman English and composition. Of course this has been a familiar meme in the suburbs for decades with a high percentage of college freshmen flunking out because theyâre living in animal house like dorms where everybodyâs drinking and playing poker at all hours while neglecting their studies, having no idea what they even want to major in because their intellectual orientation is null and void. I knew people up at Canadian canoe camp in the late âsixties who partied until they flunked out of college even after the Tet offensive which you mightâve thought should have put the fear of God into any normal prudent person. And it wasnât as if they secretly wanted to get drafted to go tear assing around Vietnam in those sexy Huey choppers either. These people were dedicated draft dodgers yet still incapable of studying enough to maintain their student deferments. No matter: student deferments were replaced by the lottery then everyone had to sweat it out even if they landed a teaching job somewhere.
I'm German and I approve 100 % of the laws we have here. As you stated, there could be different reasons for home-schooling, but some of them are indeed child abuse.
To add to it, a private teacher teaching at home, a circus car or on travel is possible, even in a remote-tech-setting. Germany differs more between "schooled by actual teachers" and "taught only the stuff their parents want them to know or know".
considering you need a permit or âdarf scheinâ to do most anything in Germany, i donât think German people would know what to do with free choice and freedom of education. We had to leave Germany. People in Germany seem much more isolated despite integrated school systems. Also the quality of the German school system is unfortunately not what it used to be.
Parents should be allowed the option.
My mom taught in 4 different states. When we were young she was very dissatisfied with not only how little my older siblings were learning in school but with how much distain the teachers treated my high functioning autistic brother, calling him at 3-5 years old "cute but dumb" and "will never be collage material". She ended up retiring from teaching to teach us at home. We worked on school a much shorter time per day but got ahead of our peers. We also all did extracurricular activities. There was a time I was 2 years ahead in math, and I've always understood history better then my peers. When we got to college we were all in honors society and my high functioning autistic brother even got a PhD. We are all highly contributing members of society with happy/stable family lives. One doctor even went so far as to tell my brother that if it weren't for the way my mom raised him, he would not be anywhere near as high functioning as he is.
One my college professors actually pegged me as homeschooled because according to her the homeschoolers she's met are in general better at being sociable with adults and better at studying. Mind you this was 10 years ago
We lived there for 4.5 yrs in the early 2010s under a Sofa agreement. Had a blast. Had two kids, completed a nursing degree; and put 70K on the Jeep driving all over Europe. (We had two other cars as well⊠we are from Montana, if you donât drive 40 miles you canât get anything done!) we would luv to return, but with all the uncertainty r/t the world situation not to mention the high energy bills in Europe right now⊠great to find your channel! Keep it up!
My best friend in Columbus, has a daughter with three boys. She, was second in the state of Ohio during her junior high school year. In science competition. Partially for health reasons, She decided to keep them out of school. One child is 2 to 3 years ahead being homeschooled. By taking tests and qualifying. At first, the online teacher thought she was doing his work. But, then she had him read successively more difficult and higher level reading. And she signed off. He self directs his education. Heâs very much interested in astrophysics and planetary mechanics. Heâs seven years old.
Yeah, in Ohio you actually have qualified teachers coming in and checking in on you and testing your progress, if you are not doing online school. Not every kid can direct their own education, but it does very well for the kids who do.
There is a general culture in Germany to not prioritise these kind strictly academic skills over the softer skills, as mentioned in the video. Im not saying this kids education is wrong, but the German government would consider it denying him the right to regularly socialise with his peers, be introduced to opposing ideas and different groups of people, and feel included in society outside of his family structure.
I was homeschooled in the US for a few years, and it was because I was a victim of severe bullying for many years and I received a much higher quality education at home, and I had special learning needs. I just wonder what happens to anyone in Germany who has a situation similar to mine.
A variety of options. I had an issue myself and saw quite a varity over the years for myself and in others. Special boarding schools, special public schools, a personal learning support for the child (aka, a adult paid by the state, who attends all school lessons with the child and to help child out and reign in inappropriate behavoirs). I myself lived in an educational facility for some years, but unlike other childreen in it, I did not attend the facilitys own school, but a local public school instead. As far as physically disabled childreen go, some public schools, but not all, are equipped to be accessible with a wheelchair, and there are also schools that specialize in physically disabled childreen.
I was homeschooled in the US from elementary to high school, and for me despite my mom not being qualified as a teacher and having been taught reading in public UK school so poorly that she couldnât read until age 12 and still uses run on sentences- however even before the internet got up an running which is a big change, you could use curriculum both secular and religious that support the student even DVD classes for math where you can watch a teacher in a traditional classroom. I was taught in 9th grade from two creationists science books balanced by a whole bookshelf of secular aligned science textbooks or encyclopedias. We had several non textbooks books at home. We were required to take a yearly test and used the CAT test, my documents show that in 7th grade I had a 7th grade math and science and 12th grade reading level. Instead of being taught sight words I was taught with phonetic system called explode the code which research shows an education based on learning letter sounds and an environment that encourages reading works better than memorizing sight words has been around for decades, I didnât start being taught to read until I was 6 but easily was ready to read at age 7, and didnât feel any resistance reading throughout school until I was 14 and expected to finish Ursula K Leguinsâ earthsea in less than 2 weeks so I could return it to the library⊠meanwhile the public schools in my area has a problem with getting people to want to read. I didnât take the SAT or ACT, frankly my family was poor so the GED was cheaper and I graduated early with that in order to go to community college early- which interestingly the college I went to has a high school that simultaneously studies general Ed classes for an associates degree to transfer to 4 year college- ruled by Ă lottery system that homeschooled students werenât supposed to or able to enter- so basically I used the GED to circumnavigate that and get the same opportunity as the lucky kids, when I was 16. So I never needed to take the SAT. I was on the deans list multiple times and the only bad grades I got was in math my least favorite subject because after algebra I didnât study anything and my father tried to incorrectly use the Feynman technique on me to explain parabolas from calculus while he was in engineering school and I needed help understanding fractions. We used a curriculum called MathUSee which used plastic blocks in early grades to understand the tens hundreds one places and units. Everyone was complaining about common core in recent years but actually when I looked into it the common core method is a method I was taught through mathusee but presented as a shortcut and he taught the traditional way as well- whereas since common core only teaches the âshortcutâ and public school parents usually work, they donât have time to learn the new way so theyâre both speaking different math languages to each other, whereas mathusee leaves you bilingual as it were. I later dropped out of 4 year college for financial reasons and because I changed my mind about my major, originally I applied and received an honors scholarship to go to college after graduating with a two year in graphic design with honors and a associate of arts to study digital media with the intent to go into video games. I like learning languages and around the same time I went to school started learning Japanese by myself though Iâve put that on hold several times. In the language learning community I often hear the stories of how ineffective public school language courses are, and in the US teachers arenât even required to be higher than an equivalent of a B1 on the CEFR scale for European languages to teach it, which is a 6 part scale A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2. B1 is lower intermediate. The A levels are beginner and C is advanced. Studies of students of languages in the UK show that despite having goals of getting high school students to B1 they only reach A2. Of course part of that is the students have to put in the work if you donât get 100% or close to it that means youâre not learning all the material presented and if you only know 50-75% of that how can you hope to speak a foreign language? My community college only offered Spanish and I chose the 4 year I went to because they had 3D animation and Japanese- but I was discouraged by my honors advisers from taking Japanese! To me learning isnât about getting a certificate in something not always, just because someone is certified they might not know much about what they learned especially if they crammed for an exam, Vs someone who knows how to do it but taught themselves that seems more valuable. I met a homeschooler who self studied for the BAR and became a lawyer.many homeschoolers study classical languages such as Latin and Greek so their curriculum resembles a private school that would be very expensive otherwise to attend as a non homeschooler, but if youâre homeschooled you save time commuting on a bus, you donât need to pay for a uniform, the only cost of education is curriculum/textbooks and stationery/note taking items. You can take a sick day whenever you want and get the rest you need and make up work later in the summer without it seeming like a punishment. Thereâs no reason homeschooler parents canât cultivate relationships with people inside and out of homeschooling so their children have peers to interact with, frankly what I hear about the poorest public schools they seem rampant with bullying which to this day has emotionally scarred my public friends who had âfriendsâ in high school who would take nutshots. You donât need 200-500 peers/aquaintences/bullies to get âproper socialization â itâs likely something much lower like 50-100, or even 5 high quality friends would be superior to 100s of people who you may only know 5 of anyway and youâre friends still with 1 or 3 and 1 or 3 were bullies and the rest you only recognize them by checking your yearbook. My husband was also homeschooled through high school and his parents went out of their to cultivate friendships with well educated people who are also homeschoolers. There are cases of abuse but abuse happens to public school kids too, and I think is a deeper problem than just homeschooling. A good parent will homeschool a better rounded human than a public school kid who even if they have the best teachers might be ignored due to classstructure and the teacher not having enough time to address the students individual needs. Frankly schools where I grew up had bars on the Windows and the one time I went to drivers ed at the high school, when I went to the bathroom there was no soap and no doors on the stalls in the girls restroom. You canât be trusted as a young adult to go to the bathroom without asking permission. It looks and sounds like prison- public school people Iâve met who tried military MREs said they tasted like HS cafeteria food: really weâre training young adults in public schools for prison. Obviously if abuse is happening to any student that should be stopped but I donât see how it would be stopped on large scale by not allowing homeschooling.
Interesting topic - again. And with the amount of research that get cited! in the video it is yet another work of reference. Thank you for putting in the effort.
As for my opinion: Homeschooling puts kids in a bubble that prevents them from learning the societal and cultural basics in a given nation. Kind of like what you'd get if you'd get your news from only one very biased source. But it does help if the education system is actually doing the job it is supposed to in the first place. This certainly doesn't preclude kids from learning additional skills and traits at home, that's what parents are for.
Can you give me examples of learning societal and cultural basics in a given nation please?
I've lived in Ireland for a year with a host family. Their three childen were homeschooled until secondary school. In Ireland not everybody can homeschool you have to have certain certifications as parents and the children had online tutors for subjects my host parents weren't equipped to handle i.e. maths. Due to their close one-on-one teaching the children learned quicker and spents less time on school work. They had no trouble adjusting to the academic stadard in school.
Germans always point out the lack of social interaction and but the kids all were in clubs (e.g. horseback riding, soccer) prior to secondary school and had plenty of neighborhood friends. Their social interaction were just organized differently.
I don't believe homeschooling should be as unregulated as in the US but there are different models and I think it could be a valuable addition for the German school system. France allows home schooling, as well and still not many people take it but for a some this could become a valid option.
One draw back I see is that children in abusive situations could become completely isolated through home schooling and I'm not sure how this can be remedied
In France homeschooling is only permitted in certains cases. First you have to ask the regional education authority the permission to do it, second the teaching should follow the national curriculum and the kids could be tested and if their level is too low for their case the a foreign language, dialect that's not taught in the school. My kids are bilingual french and English, then they learnt German and Spanish at school. For one it was possible in the school, they could find a different classe for her for the Spanish, but for the second one they can't and she had to study Spanish by the CNED (state school at distance, now mostly online). Same with his handicapped brother, his daycare was only providing 3 hours a week school, then we asked for special school by the CNED on top of his daycare. For mentally handicap, it was made by a state teacher, could be a retired one.
Now here education are compulsory from the age of 3, kids have to go to school or have the permission not, but if someone does homeschooling without permission he can be fined, have family allowance cut, plus be one social worker survey with the risk of having his kids take away by the " protection de l'enfance" ( child protection state services).
I think this topic shows a lot about how school is perceived in various countries, especially its role in society and its range. If for you school is only a place where a person recites textbook knowledge, then I kind of get the idea, that (educated) parents can do that themselves. But as mentioned in the video, school, especially nowadays, is so much more. And living in an cultural environment with lots of teachers or teachers-to-be, I more and more realize how much more focus is put on groupwork, joint problem solving and experiencing different opinions and backgrounds (at least compared to my school days in the late 90s). If your countries defines school according to these premises, then there is just no way to follow these instructions outside a school
As a US homeschooling mom, who really thinks it's working for my kids, I'm so glad you didn't cite the weak studies on academic performance. Like, it might be true, but don't be biased and try to pretend you're not. Thanks for this well thought out video. I should also note that we are secular homeschoolers (no religious motivation) and we moved to homeschooling for accommodations for adhd / neurodiversity during the pandemic, and it's been wonderful, so we haven't gone back.
I know nothing about this topic and probably shouldn't comment, but it seems to be that there sensible parents who can manage homeschooling just fine, but there are also parents who can't. You mention yourself religion, and some parents have views, that should be challenged by the outside world before passed on to the kids, if the kids should fit into the society when they grow up. Personally, I don't think the hardcore Islamic culture fits the culture of my country, and we have had some bad examples.
Your own example wrt accommodations for adhd seems to be a legitimate reason, but trying to make rules about which parents should be allowed to homeschool and which should not, is a nightmare for many reasons.
This is an important difference between the US and Europe, wrt Freedom/diversity vs social coherence.
The laws banning home schooling in Germany were instituted by Hitler and the National Socialists , which fits well with the current breed of Totalitarians.
@@raahaugeI have to agree with you on that. My thought is that sending your to state school does not negate your right to take them to church, temple, synagogue, mosque, etc. I personally believe that parental rights end where your childâs right begin and so therefore homeschooling should be illegal.
Side note: I donât believe Muslims belong in my country either. Iâm all about religious freedom but Muslims are a threat to society. Their religion teaches them everything my culture doesnât agree with.
Here is a taste of what I went through in public schools in the USA. Both homeschooling and public schooling has its challenges. However, itâs up to you has a parent to be more involved. There are plenty of public schoolers who cannot read or write. Instead of getting extra help, tutoring, etc, they are labeled ADHD or ADD. I know kids who have never been social and attend public schools. It all depends on the personality of the child. For example, I children are vibrate and outgoing at home. When they attended school, they were soft spoken and quiet. I noticed a lot of people mention abuse at home but failed to talk about the abuse that often happens at schools. This decision should not be the government nor the public decision, it should be the parents choice. Different strokes for different folks. Live and let live. Here is a snap shot of what I personally went through in high school. m.czcams.com/video/nu86whVkcC4/video.html
Good point!
Good work!!
Thank you!
I do remember that even national soccer players of the under 18 teams take trained teachers with them when going to world championships in other countries.
Yes, a form of homeschooling. Lots of homeschoolers use tutors and travel extensively.
As someone who grew up and went to school in Germany and now lives in Canada and homeschools, I think it is very sad to see the overall theme of the comments. I realy had a bad experience with german publuc schools. I had to pretend to be someone else in order to not to get bullied in school. Everbody thinks that homeschooling has inevitably a religious component to it and maybe it is the case in the US, in my experience that is not the case. I started homeschooling my daughter when she was 11 years old. I pulled her out of school because at the parent teacher conference (grade 5) they told me she could not read. After homeschooling for 2 years she read 2 books a week. Sometimes it is just better for a child to be homeschooled
I went to public and private schools. Halfway through high school I began "homeschooling" and attended community college full time. This was a massive positive turning point in my life after a lifetime of bullying and not being challenged in school. I am so grateful for the opportunity. That said, I think caution is warranted. I know a lot of people homeschooled for religious reasons who don't have any idea of what the real world is like because of their isolation. Overall, in my American experience I've seen three reasons for homeschooling: fairly extreme IMO religious conservatism, health reasons (kid cant go to school successfully), and for academic challenges--as far as an 11yo taking university calculus because that was what it took to challenge him. Challenge is so important for kids. Not having enough can lead to depression and other harms. So banning it completely sounds absolutely wild to me. Different kids have different needs.
Whit Flores You`re right, different kids have different needs. Therefore we have different schools for all those different kids here in Germany.
Hallo Ashton,
good research as always. But I have another topic for a next video and sorry, I can better explain in german. In germany haben wir ja ein Berufsbildungssystem, fĂŒr die SchulabgĂ€nger der mittleren Reife (Realschule), zB Ausbildungen in den Berufen Friseur, Kraftfahrzeug Mechatroniker, BĂ€cker oder Einzelhandels Kaufman/frau, nur mal als Beispiele. Die Ausbildung lĂ€uft oft dual ab, also im Betrieb und teilweise in der Berufsschule. Gibt es in den USA auch so ein Berufsbildungssystem?
Dazu gehört aber auch ein Weiterbildungssystem fĂŒr zB RealschĂŒler, die nach erfolgreicher Ausbildung in einem Lehrberuf und gewisser Berufspraxis, weiter lernen wollen, zB Abitur nachholen an eine Fachoberschule (Abschluss: Fachabitur, auf eine spezielle Fachrichtung zugeschnittenes Abitur, Fachhochschulreife) welches berechtigt auf eine Fochhochschule zu gehen (Abschluss: Ingenieur FH) in der Regel 6 Semester. ZusĂ€tzlich erhĂ€lt man nach erfolgreichem Abschluss des 4. Semesters die Allgemeine Hochschulreife, könnte damit sofort auf die UniversitĂ€t wechseln (dann ohne Abschluss ander FH) oder erst nach erfolgreichen FH Studium. so kann ein SchĂŒler mit mittlerer Reife ĂŒber den Umweg Ausbildung>Berufspraxis>Fachabitur>UniversitĂ€t dann doch noch an einer richtigen UniversitĂ€t studieren, falls er ein SpĂ€tstarter ist und der Knoten erst spĂ€ter aufgeht, als bei anderen. Eine weitere Möglichkeit der Weiterbildung, nach einer Ausbildung und Berufspraxis, vor allem fĂŒr technische Berufe, sind Technikerschulen (Abschluss: staatliche geprĂŒfter Techniker)
WĂ€re das noch ein Thema fĂŒr euch? Grundschule bis Abitur habt ihr ja schon besprochen und UniversitĂ€ten auch. Liegt diese Arte der Berufsbildung (bei uns staatlich geregelt) in den USA allein bei den Firmen, die ihre Mitarbeiter dann selbst ausbilden und alles nötige, was sie fĂŒr den Job brauchen, hausintern beibringen?
Hoffe ihr könnt dieses Thema auch mal aufgreifen.
Hallo Michael, da gab es schon mal eine Video zu, hier: czcams.com/video/aCdDdp7vNbY/video.html
Aber vielleicht nicht in der AusfĂŒhrlichkeit, die du dir erhoffst.
Comment from Michael Krause
Hello Ashton,
good research as always. But I have another topic for a next video and sorry,
I can explain better in German. In Germany we have one
Vocational training system for those who leave school
(Realschule), e.g. training in the professions of hairdresser, motor vehicle
Mechatronics engineer, baker or retail clerk, just as
examples. The training often runs dual a, i.e. in the company and partly in
the vocational school. Is this also the case in the US vocational training system?
This also includes in the further education system for 2B Realschule students who
after successful training in an apprenticeship and certain
Professional practice, want to continue learning, catch up on 2B Abitur at one
Fachoberschule (degree: Fachabitur, in a special field
tailored Abitur, advanced technical college entrance qualification) which entitles you to a
to go to a university of applied sciences (degree: engineer FH) usually 6
Semester. In addition, after successfully completing the 4th
Semester, the general higher education entrance qualification, could thus immediately be transferred to the semester. In addition, after successfully completing the 4th
Semester, the general higher education entrance qualification, could thus immediately go to the
Change university (then without a degree from another university) or only after
successful university studies. so can in high school students over the
study at a real university if he's a late starter and he
The knot comes up later than with others. Another possibility of
Continuing education, after training and professional practice, especially for
technical professions are technical schools (degree: state-certified
Technician)
Would that still be an issue for you? You already have elementary school to high school
discussed and universities too. Is this type of vocational training (enclosed
regulated by the state) in the USA only for the companies that employ their employees
then train yourself and everything you need for the job,
teach in-house?
I hope you can revisit this topic.
THANK YOU đ FOR ALL THE AWESOME đ€© VIDEOSđż& helping me to learn about Germany đ©đȘ! APPRECIATE YOU!! â€ïžđșđž
I work at a school myself on an hourly basis and also have a lot to do professionally with children and young people and their parents.
I know a few cases where puberty, mental illnesses or incidents/bullying at school made school attendance a torture for everyone involved - including the teachers.
I'd wish there would be more opportunities to teach these children at home.
Home schooling should also be an alternative for children in the first two years of primary school, because some children actually have a social development delay, which becomes a real problem due to this drastic change from kindergarten to school. When I already experience in the 1st grade that everyone thinks I'm stupid, the impression remains the whole life.
But: Home schooling must not be permanent, it must take place in a controlled manner (youth welfare office, school authorities, social worker, pediatrician should have a look and a voice), parents must comply with curricula (e.g. in science and sex education) and it must not serve religious or political indoctrination. In addition, social interaction with children and adults who are NOT part of the own bubble must also be part of it, e.g. through membership in a sport club, the fire brigade, swimming lessons or making music with others.
ReichsbĂŒrger, political extremists or religious fundamentalists or even overprotective, dominant parents should not have a chance to hinder the children in their education and development.
The ban on homeschooling is not entirely logical either. Because at the same time, questionable cults and communities have repeatedly received permission to set up schools. Be it Universelles Leben, 12 tribes or hardcore Querdenker. Even in Walddorf schools, children are indoctrinated with ideas that serve in general as one of the reasons for refusing homeschooling.
The biggest danger of strict homeschooling I see is, that kids only their parents world view. That might be convenient from the parents point of view. But to raise children that are able to build their own opinion based on different influences and views it is important to interact with other people. Otherwise there is a chance to get only strongly filtered information based on your parents world views. And yes there is peer pressure, bullying and other negative stuff kids are experience at school, kindergarten and even pre-school. And I think teachers should look more to prevent this from happening. But on the other hand it prevents kids from growing up in a religious, political or any other bubble. Kids can also grow up with a strong religious believe even if they visited public school and kids can drift in extreme political directions even with public schools as a kind of moderator (or catalyst). But at least they are having access to many more information and interaction with other viewpoints as only what a public school provides in their curriculum. #IMHO
When it comes to the statistics, I see another factor that could play into the results, and this is representation. So my question is, are homeschooled kids really representative for all American kids or is there a difference in socio economic backgrounds between homeschooled kids and kids going to a public school? I can imagine that if I were a single parent and habe to work at least two jobs to make ends meet, I would prefer to send my kids to a public school. Or also when both parents have to go to work, public schools seems to me as the best option.
Has both advantages and disadvantages with the filter bubbles that can also occur in schools. And most of the time you have to share the views that the teachers had, at least when I was at school. And as far as the filter bubbles go, the parents have little influence either way thanks to Twitter. facebook and other social media.
@@Habakuk_ If parents allow social media. In case of religious reasons for homeschooling I can imagine that this is highly restricted. And in public school you donât have to share teachers religious or political views neither you are forced to a certain world view. At least not in Germany in my experience. We were well aware which teacher was religious and who was not and we also knew of many which party affiliations they had. And we made fun off all of them when we were among us. The good thing is, even if teachers are having different point of views, you are still exposed to many of them, as many teachers you have during your time at school. If youâre at home all the time, there is a much bigger chance that you are intentionally only exposed to the view of your parents. And youâre still influenced by the views and behaviors of your parents even if your on a public school. đ
@@Al69BfR Well, but the media convey a different picture, for example. in universities, if students don't get gendered, they automatically get a worse grade and some of the students can already think for themselves. But in schools, especially the younger students are more vulnerable or at the mercy of such indoctrination.
I've taught in a University setting, either full time or part time for the past 8 years in the US and Germany. The idea that if "students don't get gendered they automatically get a worse grade" is utter non-sense. If any student feels that they are being targeted, discriminated against, or maltreated - there are pathways in which students can take their concerns up the chain of command... something which does not exist in a homeschool setting.
@@Habakuk_ Youâre probably reading and watching media that indoctrinates you. In single specific cases at universities it is possible when the use of gender equality language is important for the subject, that the student can get less points. Afaik there was one case where a student went to court about this. But he didnât get a worse grade overall.
In school the use of gender equality language is not enforced and can be marked as an error if itâs used by the students and therefore can get them an actual worse grade if they use it. So far away from indoctrination. You should consider to change your sources. đ€
Having read a lot of the comments so far, there seem to be several threads that apparently are unrelated to academics, but have a mayor effect on academic efficacy.
When I went through my schooling in the 1970s and 1980s the concepts of bullying and mobbing where completely unknown and the corresponding actions just considered harmless teasing.
I grew up in a "german-anabaptist" agricultural social environment in the heart of South America, where the "State" was more-or-less absent until the start of the 1990s. Our school system was based on the prussian public school system as instituted by king Friedrich Wilhelm I back in the 18th century. The school teacher was considered second only to God, and held as more-or-less infallible. During my school time only the secondary school (grades 7-12) was officially accredited by the government, we still used a lot of textbooks from Germany. The "Volksschule" (grades 1-6) was still using a curriculum largely derived from prussian "Schulpflicht", with some adaptions to local circumstances and scientific advancements. The "full" accreditation only happened in the mid 1990s.
The constitution of Paraguay from 1992 makes 10 years of schooling mandatory (from pre-school to grade 9). But especially in rural areas there is a lot of absenteeism and drop-out. Home schooling in Paraguay is frowned upon, though except for it not being officially accredited there are no punishments. Though without a government certified transcript you can not get any further education. And there is no option of testing for placement and/or GED.
Even the methodology of the paraguayan school system is in some way derivative of the prussian methodology, in that the students are expected to copy the lecture verbatim, and use rote memorization to regurgitate the lectures during any and all exams in verbatim. And in university the adage "those that can do, and those that can't teach" applies to the vast majority of "professors". As recently as 2015 I was reprimanded by a "professor" in law school for questioning his lack of grammar and orthography and seeking to clarify the resulting ambiguity by stating that grammar and orthography only matter in the class of "Oral and Written Communication". That was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back, and soured my respect towards academics in general and especially those that insist on touting their so-called degrees or titles.
But back to my basic schooling experience: I earned my high school diploma IN SPITE of the school system! I started my schooling in a mission school. But half-way through grade 2 my parents pulled me out, due to severe bullying, mobbing and suspicion of sexual abuse. After a precipitated move to town for the start of the next school year, I was put back in grade 2 in our own elementary school. The bullying continued, and the mobbing was facilitated and encouraged by the teachers. My parents were told: "We do not like your child, because your child is a problem!" (The problems I had were un-diagnosed ADHD and a high IQ.) But since the whole school system insisted on treating all students equal and to the lowest common denominator, I was academically under-challenged and thus bored out of my mind most of the time as well as easily distracted through ADHD. Consequently I was a problem in the classroom and became a scapegoat for the teachers. This became worse over the years, until I started terrorizing and intimidating the teachers intellectually in grades 11 and 12, which earned me a small measure of "respect" from my peers.
All that trauma experienced in school, especially during mandatory extra-curricular activities, has deeply embedded triggers in my psyche that manifest as PTSD. There are serious psychological scar that make interpersonal relationships extremely difficult for me, as well as caused chronic depression. (In hindsight, I can identify the first serious symptoms of depression and suicidal behavior back to age 11.) And it has been only in the last approximately 10 years that I have become aware of many of these triggers. This awareness, and the effort to develop and train coping mechanisms, has led to a break down and burn out.
To this day I am struggling with mental health fall-out of the abuse and trauma I suffered in school!
I think it has been forgotten that the Schulpflicht ends after 10 years of school whether you got a graduation or not. After that you can go the autodydactic route and only go to a public facility for the exams.
Usually that is done by adults which didn't get Abitur or the Fachabitur.
As a homeschool mom in America, I have found since my oldest decided to go to public high school and the work she is currently doing is less than she would be at home. I also require and find places for my kids to volunteer, and do classes with others outside our home (currently they do martial arts). When they were younger we attended a co-op.
It is definitely harder to homeschool, because it is the parents job to ensure our kids are social and have experiences with people of every age outside our home, both with and without parents.
We also have to ensure the kids get as good or better education. And while some states require lots of turn in and work I prefer the states and moved to a state that has less requirements because I get frustrated with government involvement (especially since I have kids who are neurodivergent).
My oldest is in 11th grade and pretty much ready for college (chose to go to public school). School is super easy for her.
My 2nd oldest is in 10th grade. Most of her work is above grade level, though we are working on writing. Because she has an issue with writing like she would talk and not in correct format. Though we are getting there.
My 8th grader is currently doing a lot of 9th grade level work.
While my 7th grader is dyslexic, dysgraphic and has dyscalculia. She could not read, add or subtract in 2nd grade because I did not know what was going on. Once I learned the best way to teach a child with her disabilities she is currently reading at a 5th grade level, and doing math at a 5th grade level. I am hoping by the end of this year to have her closer to a 7th grade level. Though I do give her access through audio books, and video lessons to grade appropriate materials.
It takes a lot to homeschool these kids but I do it because the schools will not work on what I feel my kids need to grow and learn. Many homeschooling parents I know feel the same and work just as hard. For both social, emotional and then educational needs. It is more work to ensure all 3 are met.
That being said not everyone should homeschool. Not everyone can homeschool well. And if you canât you should not homeschool.
Very interesting. As a language teacher myself, I was totally against homeschooling a few years ago. It was really scary that children of abusing parents would remain totally unseen had they been away from the public eye. Watching the public education downfall in the USA and other countries, even European ones, I started to be less strict. I saw the research referred to here and I have watched hundreds of videos favoring homeschooling, and I even started to understand parents wanting to "unschool" their kids. However, when as a language teacher (of a language foreign to English), I started to teach "unschooled" kids. I realized that their level of education is lower than my expectations, even for those kids preparing themselves for college. I have a student claiming he had been taught Ancient Greek and Latin for years but he is barely able to recognize even the simplest phrases a beginner should understand. In my humble opinion, policymakers should listen to the parents and incorporate some of the homeschooling principles into the school education systems.
Sorry, but if 94% of the parents are okay with the system of schooling in presence, why should we include homeschooling principles into the system? For the coolness factor? Even with the horrendous effort being made, this experiment was an utter disaster, plain and simple.
There is a very important catch in this, and you scratched it too, but I need to emphasize it more. I think homeschooling is not adviseable nor needed for most subjects, but foreign languages are an exception. Because it is simply not possible to become proficient at any language with what little enviroment school offers for it. Right now my english is prolly on native level or darn close to it. Had I only done the compulsory schoolwork it would have never progressed that far nor ever gotten close to it and my only regret regarding my school time is that I did not learn more languages (latin does not count). Because now, knowing how far one can get, I lack the motivation and time to start afresh with an entirely new language. Since you are a language teacher, what is your experience with that regarding your pupils? I would also be interested how your own education as a teacher ensured that youd actually reach the proficiency level required to teach?
@@bimbelimbim4998 you're right that school is not adequate for learning a language, but tutoring is not enough either. Learning a language to proficiency is a cultural thing mostly, therefore it requires exposure to the cultural environments of the native language speakers. I don't know where are you from, but if we look at the Nordic countries, the best example of school efficiency in teaching languages, we can see clearly that people reach proficiency through films, through discussions on the internet, through reading material from a variety of resources, while being taught at school solely. Language teachers too, if they are not native, need to be exposed to the environment of the language they teach. Having said that, in an advanced level, let's say C1 and C2, if I was a student, I would prefer my tutor/teacher to be a native speaker of my target language. Concerning second or third foreign language learning, most people progress until the B2 level. Even bilingual from birth people at some point "choose" their first language. However, I have examples of my pupils who advanced in their second foreign language a lot further than in the first. In my 50s I started learning a new language, totally different in structure and in phonetics from the ones I already knew and I am enjoying it, though my pace is very much slower.
@@tyxeri48 Ive found audiobooks by far the best medium for learning foreign languages, and up to a certain point I would recommend them before anything else. Everything you mentioned at the beginning of your comment has limits. Disscussion are usually short sentences and pretty involved around one topic and its specific vocabulary. Conversation of any kind also often go with abbreviations or such if written and slang if spoken. Movies on the other hand limit themselves to conversation alone, you wont get highly descriptive stuff. Reading a book will not provide you with correct spelling advance your speaking skills, which are far harder to master then writing anyway. After all writing is but a tool to record language.
Long story short, I think audiobooks provide the most complete package and since they are written by authors, you dont get any undesireable speaking habits from them either, which is why I find them so prefeable.
"Unschooling" is a subset of homeschooling. I think there are ways to do it right, but it's very easy to use it as an excuse to just not do anything. One thing I did enjoy about homeschooling is it let my nephew start earlier on foreign language. We homeschooled during the pandemic for 6/7th grade and will be returning to it next month (we tried a public virtual school for 8th grade and it's not working for him). I let him pick the language, but insisted he study one each semester, so he's gotten introductions to Korean, Japanese, and Spanish. He's looking forward to studying Russian next.
My main focus was grilling him on English, because as a public school student through 5th grade, he couldn't distinguish between a verb and a noun. We took a few different approaches to homeschooling, and my nephew seemed to respond best to a semi-unschooling approach, but he also did well in Montessori in early grades. So I've told him our focus will be GED/ACT/SAT, but try to take a more relaxed/learn through life approach in general. Doing my research right now, because I had hoped the virtual school would stick. But I'm looking forward to traveling with him and having him spend less time at the computer.
However, I'm a lot better educated on education than the typical parent. So for most people I'd suggest attempting something with more structured. There are great co-op and online schooling options now. Lot of our area homeschoolers use umbrella schools which help them with paperwork and resources.
In Germany there are "Freie Schulen", private schools for those, who don't agree with the regular school. These schools have different ideas on how or what to teach, but are generally bound to the school law and controlled by the authorities. So, you are not allowed to keep your kid away from school, but you might found your own school, according to the laws.
There is a right for education for children, not only some interest of families or individuals. The State have to educate, because of this guarantied right. For me, it is this children's right, which counts above parents ideas on their kids. Children are not the property of their parents. It is their right ! to make experiences outside the family.
Excellent point. As you note that are alternatives for parents who do not like their public school option - such as private schools or starting their own schools, but in doing so those schools must still uphold a standard of education.
Interestingly, the US is the only UN country that has not ratified the UN convention on children's rights, mainly due to pushback from the homeschooling lobby that places children's right to an education above the parents right to control them.
The late Senator Jesse Helms expressed that the UNCRC would provide "children rights and privileges that they are not mature enough to handle" and that it "forces its way into the relationship of a parent and child."
Similarly, former Senator Jim DeMint argued that the Convention would "undermine presumptions of freedom and independence for U.S. families."
Ooh, you tackled a touchy topic! Brave! So, what about the kids with autism/dyslexia? How is this handled in schools in Germany? Our daughter struggled for YEARS in the US before we were able to figure out that she was on the spectrum (girls mask it and many are missed) and was dyslexic. She is now in her senior year (!) but went to four different schools (public and private) where she was bullied, academically struggled etc and no one helped! We hung into school for as long as we could and thankfully found a small private accredited school for alternative learners in the US. So not homeschooling but I wonder if any sort of alternative schools like this exist in Germany? For the kids on the Autism spectrum, with dyslexia, for the struggling learners and socially awkward kids that just fail over and over in regular school? Thankfully she graduates in June and plans to attend college in Germany! Her language skills are superb. But now we get to figure out how it all works in colleges in Germany, with ASD and dyslexia! Would LOVE a video about alternative learning in Germany! Danke! â€
I have ADHD myself. I will share my personal experience, I was always very intelligent, but lacked emphaty a lot. It became to much for my mother to handle and I was raised in special social home from age 8 to 12, for childreen with varying degrees of social behavoir problems to teach me the basics of emphaty. We lived in groups ob about a dozen childreen with 1-2 adults overseeing the groups at all times (one dayshift and one 24 hour shift). There were about 5-6 of these groups and we had a small school on the grounds, which exclusively enrolled childreen from the institution itself. But each child was evaluted separately. I was enrolled into a normal public school nearby and every child was allowed to leave the grounds as they pleased, so long as they announced it and didnt stay out beyond what they had announced and what was agreed upon beforehand. By pure conindence the class I enrolled, while I lived there also had an other boy with some sort of issues, I didnt understand it well at the time, but he had an adult sitting next to him in class, who was there specifically for the purpose to help him and integrate him into the normal lectures. While I lived there I had weekly consultation with a "psychologist" (not sure what their profession actually was). We would talk about emphaty and social behavoir and discuss my experiences and reflect on it. After a few years I was allowed to move back home. I still took a variety of consultation to improve my emphaty, and it really only fully developed with myself reaching maturity. In the meantime I flew through the school system being mostly bored since everything was so easy. My social skills improved gradually and even after ending all external help by choice at age 18, I progressed futher on my own. Nowadays people can no longer tell me for ADHD-person. When I was around 16 I was given the choice to attend the Oberstufe at the Gymnasium to gain access the highest school qualification or the enroll into a special public school for ADHD and similar people. I tried that special school for a bit and was blantantly horrified by it, my own social behavoir had already improved way beyond what I saw there and the curriculum was a joke. My decision to stay in the normal school system was respected. Today I am writing my master thesis at the University. I may have had unusual experiences in my life so far, but it really worked out in the end.
Generally speaking I think there are many ways in which childreen in need can recieve help here in germany, whether parents apply for it or the state has to take the childreen away from their parents, because they are not caring for their child well.
despite the seemingly horrificly painful ordeal the Wunderlich family had to go through, I am actually pretty happy about the german system.... You summarized it pretty well with important points in in the last three chapters of this video. Parent tutoring is an important part of education but really cannot replace the social brooding pool that is public school... I am happy as long as the influence of private schools stays low. I'd guess I have a similar gripe with both homeschooling and private schools as they maintain a social and educational bubble, especially with religion involved (religion and education/pedagogy being a general bad mix most of the time, anyways)....
We had homeschooled our boys in the '90s in the US. We had too many problems with the public school that our sons were going to. The teachers could not help any of the gifted and talented kids (this program was cut). Our eldest son was struggling and getting in trouble because he was bored. When we homeschooled, we regulary had them tested to ensure we were on the right track. We also had to report to the town, which subjects and books we were using. The town had the right to come visit anytime and view the curriculum. We had joined many groups, so our kids were constantly interacting with other kids. In addition, there were all the after school sport activities. For us, there was no lack of "socialization." It gave us time to be with our kids. But I think not all cases are the same. I understand why the germans have outlawed homeschooling. I like to believe that the germans have a better school system, at least from what I can see in our town. Our boys ended going to a private school after 4 years of homeschooling. In most subjects, they were ahead of their classmates!
Yet another brilliant choice of topic and awesome video. Kudos!
When I think of public schools as a tool of an authoritarian state to manipulate, streamline or brainwash the next generation, then I can see how homeschooling appears to be a viable alternative or even preferable.
But based on my experience as a kid in school and lately as a parent sending his kids to school, I see public schools as the most important service and the single most formative experience in life.
The conflict between an individual and society is probably the most important conflict we all live through over and over again in the course of our lives. This is as true for our relation as citizens of our home countries, as it is as family members, among friends, as colleagues and then most traumatically as kids in school. School is, where we learn to fight our first wars on the school yards and where teachers either let us fight it out or intervene. This is where we make friends and enemies and where we first learn that compromises often are the best solutions. This is where we learn what justice means in practice, on the school yard or in social sciences. This is where we learn that we won't always get it our way and if we're smart that those denying us what we want might still have our best interests at heart, even if they don't love us unconditionally as our parents are at least supposed to do.
School is where we see that some people are really different, not just as different as our brothers and sisters or parents, but really completely different. We also learn that they are part of us, while different they are still in our class and thus one of another kind of 'us'. Some of 'them' are not our friends, we might not like them, but we have to endure them every day and over the years we see that friendship can grow and that for that to work, we often need to do something about ourselves.
School is also where most of us learn that we neither are the best nor have to be and that because we are all different, our best can be more than just good enough but actually fulfilling. You don't learn that at home. At home we learn that kids are royalty in sane families or nothing noteworthy in failed families. Kids should be given a chance to put themselves to the test in the real world when they still can learn to negotiate who they are and who they can become as well as how others see them.
I learned a lot from my time in school. I also learned a lot from living abroad, both by looking at my country from the outside and also looking at another country from the inside and being able to experience the differences and commonalities. I could not have learned that if I lived my life differently. Others might, not me. If I could relive my life, I would do many things differently, but exposing myself to conflicts and differences would not be one of them.
A zoom session is not social life. You can switch off the camera, you don't have to look them into the eyes, you don't see them eye to eye, you see a screen and a keyboard.
The only argument in favour of homeschooling, the protection of my children from state abuse seems to be rather hollow. If the state is willing to abuse its power to brainwash my kids, it would insist. Even if that would not be the case, it would not be sufficient to focus on education, an abusive state has to be opposed for being abusive. Rejecting partial abuse while resigning to the rest is certainly not a solution to the real problem.
It's not just about public shooling being a tool of state power, it's that classical education was designed to foster excellent character and communication skills. On the contrary public schools were designed to mold the public into milliary and industrial life. Platonic pedagogy was about fostering the child's natural abilities. It wasn't about memorizing established beliefs it was about questioning them. Classical education is concerned with personal development rather than 'fitting into society'.
I'm not sure what you are saying in that last part. Are you suggesting that the state does not enforce standardized education?
@@blotto3422 I opposed the argument for home schooling as a tool to counter abusive state influences on children (an indoctrination tool). Education has been and still is abused in many places for this purpose. My point regarding this is that while true, it's not sufficient to fix the problem (which is the abusive state) if such states would allow for home schooling.
In the USA, that most would not perceive as an authoritarian state, the society is so polarised that the curriculum in schools becomes identifiable as consisting of a collection of tribal agendas and parents are unwilling to let 'the other side' indoctrinate their children. The other side is then of course the authoritarian deep state. Now the problem is that if the educations system can no longer be trusted to be objective or bipartisan to use the American term, then the system is dysfunctional and has to be fixed. It is not a solution that each parent (or each political party) takes responsibility for the indoctrination because that does not heal the society or recreate trust in institutions, it just increases the polarisation that created the problem in first place.
I find the term 'excellent character' to be suspicious because we would almost certainly find many conflicting definitions and then understandings of what that would mean. Are philosophy, fine arts, social competencies integral parts of excellency or are they a waste of time?
I do not like splitting children into categories (I hate the split in Haupt-, Realschule and Gymnasium too). I believe that they should experience school as a representative model of society. That's why I was using the term public school with the agenda not to include private schools with pay walls that filter out layers of society. On the other hand, I am happy that there are alternative education models in Germany, like for example Walldorf schools, not because I necessarily agree with their premisses or methods, but because I believe in experimental approaches as a valid alternative to more conservative approaches - in a side-by-side manner. It's difficult to create a school following an alternative model, but I think that's ok because I see no merit in having to choose one of 50 models for my kids and my personal model would probably not as good as one that went through a selection process.
I consider personal development as a human right and support for such development as an endeavour in which states fail more often than not. But that's where parents can and should help.
I went to a public school that had a questionable reputation in a state that was considered to grant good grades for little work. We had a kind of school tourism where the kids failing in the neighbour states joined us. But when I compare my personal experience in that school with that of my friends from other schools and states, looking at what I learned in that school, then I perceive that school as excellent. I attribute that more than anything else to the teachers I met. They promoted curiosity. In hindsight, it was fun to go to school.
I never had the impression as if my school prepared me to fit into society. It was a model of society in which you can do stupid stuff and see what happens, work and got more or less valuable rewards. Some of my teachers became role models for me, mostly because of their personality, often because of their professionallity.
I also learned to read and write in three languages, to do math, physics, chemistry and biology, I understand the scientific method, I like classical and modern music (well no, that's no longer modern, it was at the time), I learned how to get the proportions in a portrait right and so much more. I had a hard time choosing my Uni-subject because I hated not to be able to study everything else. That's not the kind of person I was when I entered school.
@@blotto3422 I am not certain whether I understand you or what you want to say. I agree that schools are designed to make you fit for life, be it a king, craftsman or soldier. But I think that is a good thing, not something bad. Except for kings and family businesses it is about impossible to know what a child will later need to know so schools cover thousands of subjects that will reside in mostly unneeded parts of your memory. I finished university and never worked in the subject I studied. But that is not a fault of the (German) school system, but rather my decision that was a bit late.
@@wora1111 I'm saying that public school was designed to place citizens in their proper stations within an industrial/military state. I'm not saying this is evil, or even necessarily bad, but it cannot be ideal. It does not prepare people for life. Rather it prepares them for life within the state (in other words, society). This is the largest part of life, but it is not life. In a healthy society this distinction between life and society doesn't matter much. In a sick society this distinction matters greatly.
@@michaelutech4786 I agree that homeschooling is not sufficient to counter an authoritarian state. But insufficiency does not imply uselessness. Freedom of education is required along with freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, etc.
Freedom is only possobly with the entire set of freedoms. But of all these freedoms, freedom of education is the most important. Ignorance of a problem renders that problem invisible. If if a problem is invisible it cannot be addressed.
Many people on this channel seem to think that public education is necessary for society to exist. But societies have existed before the invention of public education. Society is built on culture and cultures have existed long before public education.
As for America being an authoritarian state if most don't agree a very large minority do agree. It has been turning authoritarian in the same way Hemingway describes going broke: bit it by bit and then all at once. This began after World War 2 and has reached its most recent climax with the current president declaring half the population as essentially enemies of the state.
It's no coincidence that education in America is an issue at this moment. The current curriculum serves the current objectives for power of the current administration. As the saying goes: culture is centuries wide but only one generation deep. To control education is to control culture and to control culture is to control the state.
True, homeschooling can't fix the problem. In fact if the curriculum for homeschooled education is also controlled by the state it is somewhat toothless. But it's very hard for the state to enforce how the curriculum is taught. So at least having the option for homeschooling is a very potent tool for freedom.
You really had me confused at 08:10 when you talked about the Federal Constitutional Court while showing images of the Federal Administrative Court đ
Ah shoot, sorry. đŹđŹđŹ
@@TypeAshton Just nitpicking đIt does not make any difference for the excellent content of the video.
One of my take aways is that the US needs to keep track of those kids better. Every single homeschooled child should be registered with the local school district and have to show up to take the regular standardized testing. Cause 1. So we can have these statistics to make policy desisions on. 2. To ensure that the kid is getting the education. If they aren't scoring well in the tests, then maybe that kid needs to switch to a public or private school. Or they need more resources. Or maybe they need to go into school for certain subjects. Maybe mom is great at math but is a terrible english teacher. Send the kid in for english class. Shoot. If your whole thing is because it's better /acedemically/.. you should want them to go into school for electives so they keep getting socialized.
Great video! Generellay speaking I am not a big fan of the German restrictive policy here since there are situations when it would be the only possible option for children to get schooled (e.g. mental illnesses/ issues like panic attacks, anxiety disorders and so on where mingling in a crowd would be a big problem).
I am glad though that my own parents never got a chance to try their teaching skills on my siblings and me- that wouldn't have worked out too well. ;) I guess many parents also realized during the Covid lockdowns that not everyone is cut out to be a teacher.
There is the aspect of the technical impediments which had our kind of home schooling. Many poor families had to scramble around, there were students who wrote their exams on a smartphone because there was no money for a notebook. During the lockdowns, the thing was also another one: Not only school moved to your living room but also your work. A lot of companies here still do working from home. This added another challenge to the schooling during covid.
Same in Sweden, no homeschooling allowed. All children have the right to a education without without religious or political pressure from parents.
I think that is good, we have qualified teachers for that.
Hi! Thank you for the video and the discussion. I think one thing that you didnât point out was that public education in Germany and public education in the United States are very different, which plays into some of the discussion of motivations for parents to choose homeschooling. Our family briefly considered a move to Germany for my husbandâs higher education. Looking at the schools there, I had less reservations about my young children attending than I do in the United States. One thing was the time commitment. It seems that the school day in Germany is much shorter than in the U.S., at least at some stages (I didnât really look into anything beyond what would be considered elementary school in the U.S.). There would be plenty of time to supplement a childâs education with religious instruction or anything else a family finds valuable. When school lasts from roughly 7:30 AM to 3:30 PM, it puts a lot of strain on a family to add anything else to the day of an already stressed out and overwhelmed child. I think itâs also important to note that while the quality of education will vary widely from family to family when it comes to homeschooling, the quality of education also varies widely from public school to public school in the United States, and there is often not much of a choice on what schools you are able to attend. I donât find myself supporting most âschool choiceâ bills as they are written here in the states. However, I was zoned to an academically failing public school with no resources to improve the academics, retain good teachers, fix the actual school building, or support the arts. This was obviously very frustrating to me because I did care about my education. Following that experience, I chose to be homeschooled instead of attending the one sub-par public high school in my district. I donât regret that choice at all. Homeschool was an excellent experience for me in so many different ways. Homeschooling is not for every person or every family. Some people have terrible experiences with homeschooling. I was one of many students who had a terrible experience in American public schools. I still believe in and support public schools as a public good, but Iâm glad I had the freedom to choose homeschooling. I donât particularly care for the German governmentâs philosophy on the relationship between parents, children, and the state. It seems from your video that it is a philosophy that you are comfortable with and Iâm more than happy to agree to disagree on that point. I just wanted to point out that looking at the data regarding homeschooling in the United States without considering that the alternative is the American public school system, not the German public school system, may paint an incomplete picture. There are a lot of pros and cons for families and students to weigh here in the U.S., some of which may not factor in as much in other countries. Best wishes for you and your family!
I'm Canadian and the only home-schooled kids I knew growing up with were kids at the church my mom was taking us to. I was literally the only girl in my age group in Sunday School who went to a public school, and it was super weird. They knew everything the Sunday school teacher was teaching already because it was a focus in their Monday-Friday homeschooling. They excluded me unintentionally because they were already each other's social group from the home-schooling moms getting together to do field trips. They've all gone on to be stay-at-home moms or have high-risk, unskilled jobs like modelling. What I saw was one generation of very church-oriented people raising another generation of very church-oriented people who had no connections outside of the church, and that's scary to me. (I'm agnostic these days, by the way.)
I have a long-distance friend in the USA who moves states every couple of years due to her military husband being rotated to different posts. She home schooled her kids before the pandemic made it cool because they routinely switched states during the school year, and home schooling was less disruptive. She buys homeschooling curriculum kits from a Christian-based organization and then re-sells whatever wasn't destroyed in use at the end of the school year, which means I've seen exactly what books make up her kids' curriculum all year. I'm horrified! Lots and lots of "history" (Americans don't teach an honest national history and I will die on this hill) and civics and religion. Not a lot of anything else.
Hi Ashton, hello Jonathan,
happy Sunday!
In my personal opinion it is good that home schooling is illegal im Germany.
My two personal most important reasons are that the Kids learn social interaction and how to fit into a Group when attending a class with other Kids. Best regards Ralf
Hi Ralf, Hi Black Forest Family... i agree with you Ralf... from my time at school, long ago, it was good to get the skills in social interacting with others and the teachers too. for me it would be, a safe way to school provided (It is here in switzerland!) would be also a no go to drive my kids to school... the way to school is important for other skills like being in traffic and getting used to it...
I think that critical thinking is a factor in German schooling - even to doubt your own country, religion etc. - that is atleast what I can say being in private church schools from grade 7 to 13. I think it is pretty normal that you question that as a teenager or young adult - at the end this is what brings in new ideas and inventions and generally improvements in life. Especially for fundamentalists - as much as I know, maybe I am wrong - exactly that critical thinking about their parents, upbringing, religion etc. often is the reason why they are homeschooled. Society - and how you cope in that society and with fellows - is an important part of life - and work life.
I only went to public schools in Germany and I was taught critical thinking as well. Looking back it feels like most subjects in school gave us some tools to apply critical thinking (sometimes it feels like I canât stop it).
During my Master of Education I was looking for Substitute Teacher Jobs and one of them was as teacher for severely ill children, that couldn't go to regular school. So even in this exception case it's often hard to get completely out state run education.
Iâm a homeschooling mom in Tennessee. My husband and I are both licensed educators whose time in public schools is exactly why we homeschool. Our local schools are not very safe and we are confident in our ability to provide our son with a richer education. Our religious views do play a part but are not our main reason for homeschooling. There isnât really a âmain reasonâ other than it suits our family. I am extremely glad we have the right to do so here. He spends a ton of time with peers who vary in age and background through our local co-ops and will most certainly take the ACT and the SAT just like we did because those scores are needed for college entry here. If he chooses a vocation instead of college that is fine, but the tests will still be taken so that the scores are available if ever needed.
For now, however, he is five and loves that we âschoolâ by reading on the patio, explore math in the kitchen, practice piano and ukulele after lunch, and spend tons of time in nature.
out of curiosity: Would you consider home-schooling your son/children?
Would it make a difference whether you are in the USA or Germany or somewhere else at that time?
i still have good friends that i know from my elementary school days, it would be a shame if i hadn't ever met them. In my opinion school is as much about socializing as learning, at least the first five years...
No judgement to others - but personally, no we would not. It is not something either Jonathan or I support. There is of course the practicality of it all. Neither Jonathan or I are from Germany and we want him to learn to speak, read and write in German from a young age, from native German speakers. But more than that.... We want Jack to have a childhood with a core group of friends, sports, extracurricular activities, and a routine that goes hand-in-hand with a brick-and-mortar education. Growing up, I loved going to school and I love the idea that he will learn and grow from the experience of being around others with ideas and skills that will challenge him.
The more I watch your videos, the more I recognize that my beliefs align with Germany and not the US, even though I am a US citizen. The US just seems and feels very backwards. As someone who was home-schooled, I fully agree with Germanyâs view of it.
There is always the option to emigrate.
I thought that I had generally good experiences in both public and private schools in the post-World War II American. However, from this excellent introduction to public education in Germany at the elementary level, it appears that public education is taken far, far more seriously in Germany if judged only by the quality of the text and note books provided (free?) to children. I can imagine an ideal combination of German public schooling aided and improved by parental tutoring.
@@777rogerf There are still loads of problems with the German school system. The biggest being that the three tier school system has the effect of reinforcing social inequality (which some say is by design).
Public school experience can have two principle outcomes: either it can properly socialize you to future work environments, or it can traumatize you so badly that you can never function in such environments.
So fascinating. As a homeschool parent myself, I don't know how I would feel about not having the option. However, as a seasoned classroom teacher, I highly value education and can see how truly insuring that every child gets an equal education is beneficial for society as a whole. We happen to be on the rare side of homeschoolers who are not homeschooling for religious reasons, but because of health issues. If our daughters decide to attend school again one day, we will happily explore that option together as a family.
The laws in Belgium are the same as in Germany. I'm not for home schooling because school is where you first learn to develop your social skills and prepears you better for later life in society.
Or did you just happen to be at school when your social skills started to kick in? Do you think people had no way to get social skills before 1900, or that they were somehow all awkward and inept. I bet your great grand parents were twice as good at just about everything than you are. And that is true for most of us.
Few people are qualified to home-school a child. What ends up happening in most cases is that the kid is deprived of his right to a quality education. This "parents' rights" flurry is actually a deprivation of a right to the child.
I believe that there should be no parents' rights meaning rights you have because you are a parent. Parents are the Childs caregivers and legal guardians. All parents' rights are either normal citizens' rights or the rights of the children.
I have a nephew that my sister is considering home schooling. He missed his first year in public school due to the pandemic. Now that he's in public school, he can't help being distracted by other children. He's a busybody and always wants to know what's going on elsewhere, and so he forgets to do his work.
My sister is still considering what to do about this, as during his year at home, he was an A student, and now he's getting Cs. But she also feels he needs the social interaction with his peers, as well as needing to learn the discipline to not be distracted.
He's young and may adapt. But there are many options for kids to socialize outside of a classroom setting. Some areas have active homeschool groups that get together. Depending on the local policies he may have the option of playing sports at his zoned school. Clubs, play groups... my nephew is getting most of his social time through church right now, but looking into more options moving forward post-pandemic.
Alternatively, he may just need tutoring after school. I'd consider factors like is he happy in school. We really enjoyed public elementary school with my nephew, but middle school was much harder for him socially.
Compulsory schooling legislation goes back a long way in Germany and was even first enacted here - 1592 in the duchy of Palatinate-ZweibrĂŒcken, to be exact (inspired by none other than Martin Luther - Wikipedia) The motivation was to make sure all children had school education in times when child labour was quite common, you could even say normal in large parts of the society.
This is a great video đ
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
@@TypeAshton You are welcome
Home schooled to me is being taught at the home by the parent. Staying home and learning on line by non public school akin to a private school but just being taught at home. Home schooling can be done for many reasons but more and more it seems to be to keep the children from being exposed to the real world experience which can cause set backs later in life and cause social strife.
Wow, you are deeply uniformed. Much homeschooling is done because the kid has exceptional talent in sports or music or is otherwise academically gifted and they are being held back wasting all that time learning little at a snails pace in public school. The sad truth is that most teachers have an IQ of between 105 - 110, if that. They simply donât have much to offer kids with 125+ IQ.
@@zwatwashdc wowza....your IQ Decides if you can teach another? Maybe in extreme low levels at best but the concept of IQ is pretty weak let alone being a good sports player dies not mean you dont need regular schooling in other aspects of life. If anything it means you are out of touch with reality
@@gordybishop2375 uh, yeah. IQ is the single strongest correlate to lifetime success in terms of earned income and educational attainment. It also relates to the amount of information you can input and process at any one time. Indeed, lower IQ would put a teacher at a distinct disadvantage viz higher IQ kids. Imagine a 115 IQ teacher teaching a 140 IQ kid in maths or sciences, or any subject, really. Maybe up until grade 4 or so, but after that it just doesnât work. They literally live in different worlds. One grasps information very quickly, the other doesnât even know what they are not perceiving. The world is differently pixelated, shot at different frame speeds. It is child abuse to leave the the 140 iq kids there - unless he is a sociopath or something, in which case he might enjoy âplayingâ with the teacher.đ
Gday BFF, great topic today. I personally feel that the benefits of attending school out weighs the benefits of home schooling . I am not against making it legal to choose as there will be students that will thrive in a home schooled situation.
As long as families have access to good guidance and support from educators so they can make informed choices then I canât see why it shouldnât be legal to home school. I have four teachers in my family, each very dedicated and passionate about education. They all chose to send their own children to school. During Covid lock down when children needed to learn from home, the teachers did a wonderful job transitioning learning to an online platform. I highly commend teachers, students and parents alike for all their hard work and dedication during this difficult time. We all came out of this with new respect for the education system.
I also like that there are some exceptions in Germany, but they must be hard fought for and very tightly regulated. The loose regulations and lack of checks and qualifications are the primary concern for me with the US model.
I love that you guys don't shy away from talking about difficult topics and present them in such an unbiased way.
Here in Austria homeschooling is legal, but not very popular. Personally I actually have been homeschooled for a year for health reasons and it was great, I had qualified teachers though. But I preferred going to school so I could see other kids.
I wish there were more requirements and controls put in place. There are basicly not requirement here, the kids just have to take a test at rhe end of the school year. IMO that's not enough. Usually those people that homeschool are already not well integrated into society and tend to be on the extreme ends of the political spectrum. Those kids should be exposed to some different viewpoints.
Interesting. About requirements, here in France school attendance is mandatory so you basically have to prove your child can't attend school and get a permission anually to homeschool. There are then annual inspections to check the child's progress. Is it similar in Austria or are you totally free to chose homeschooling ?
As a homeschooler your found definition is faulty. âHomeschoolingâ is no-government-funded parent-lead schooling, virtual schooling falls under âalternativeâ which homeschooling is too, but they are not the same.
While I will of course acknowledge there are people who âhomeschoolâ their kids but are just isolating them and failing in teaching one or multiple subjects, that is a proportionally small number of people. I have had college professors say their best students were homeschoolers. If a family is homeschooling well the children are learning the same subjects as their âschooledâ peers but at a pace to maser it. But even so there are children who donât do well with academic subjects in both styles of education. In my experience the #1 objection to homeschooling is âsocialization,â yet (again there are exceptions) most homeschoolers are equally or better socialized because they spend time with their own age group outside of school and spend more time with a wider age-range of people. Homeschoolers are better able to interact with a wide range of people intelligently and maturely. Working regularly with kids programs I have also found that contrary to your reference to German reasoning, homeschoolers are often better or at least faster at team work and problem solving than their publicly educated peers.
As someone who did take the ACT (and got a relatively high score) and went to college, I donât see any correlation between what was tested and âcollege readiness.â And I am not sure why it should be required to take if you donât intend on going to college. I was actually very disappointed that many of my âgen-edsâ were as easy or easier than my high school courses. In the last 3 years not only has the ACT been simplified because a large portion of students couldnât get good enough scores nation wide, my university had to equip the professors to teach learning skills to their students because few of the ones coming from public schools were equipped with the self-learning and study skills required for college course.
Over all you had a good, if slightly biased, video. I enjoy seeing people give a respectful comparison and opinion. The biggest thing you downplayed though, is that parents have the right to choose how to raise their children and their education is part of that raising. If the best solution for a family is to put them in public, private, or charter school, great! If they choose to enroll in a virtual charter school and augment that at home that too is good. If they choose to homeschool that is as valid a choice as the others. So long as they are not abused and are taught basic academics (but more importantly how to interact with the world and problem solve and work with others) it is not the governmentâs job to interfere, despite what âsocietyâ tries to tell us.
One of the worst movies I have ever seen in cinema is "Movie 43". But there was a scene about homeschooling. The parents wanted to give their son as authentic a feeling as possible of what it's like at school. His mother secretly wrote him love letters in class and his father tied him to a lamppost in his underpants. That made me laugh quite a bit. đ€Ł
Interesting topic, very well presented!
Nonetheless I would like to make some remarks regarding the history of German compulsory school regulations - partly fun fact, partly interesting background.
Actually the idea of compulsory schooling originated back to the 16th century, initiated by a pamphlet by reformator Martin Luther (demanding the establishment of public schools) and the teachings of Philip Melanchthon (who was not only theological reformer, but also a philologist and pedagogue). In 1592 the Duchy of Palatine ZweibrĂŒcken (reigned by the protestant branch of the Bavarian Wittelsbach dynasty; this branch became also the Royal House of Sweden from 1654 to 1720) introduced as first state in the Holy Roman Empire general compulsory schooling, followed in 1598 by the Imperial Free City of Strassbourg. WĂŒrttemberg (under heavy influence by the Pietistic Protestant church) had introduced compulsory schooling by church constitution of 1559, but only for male children; general compulsory schooling was introduced as late as 1649, while for example the Duchy of Saxe-Gotha got it 1642 and the Principality of Brunswick-WolfenbĂŒttel in 1647. (In 1648 the 30 Years' war ended, the fiercest civil war so far in Germany, in some regions killing two thirds of the population.)
Prussia started during the 18th century to erect a system of public schools funded by the state, but had no compulsory schooling, only compulsory education (homeschooling was allowed, but by law only for rich people or academics - this was however not really enforced).
But even so many county people protested, because the needed the children as labourers at the farm. In other areas like WĂŒrttemberg or Bavaria (which even being a Catholic state had introduced compulsory schooling in 1771, but did only start to enforce it around 1802) farmers often bribed the underpaid teachers to record at least the girls to be present at school while in reality they worked at home; and sometimes local farmers could also request the help of the upper grades for harvesting.
The 1919 Weimar constitution introduced compulsory schooling for all states. Before that many nobles and rich industrialist had employed private tutors for their children, while poor parents often did send only the oldest son to public school and tried to evade schooling for the other kids, so they could early start to earn money. Therefore it was for many of the legislators also an "equal opportunities" thing, besides the national economic benefit of a better educated workforce.
Precisely those parents who want to homeschool their children shouldnât be allowed to. I was a school governor for a number of years during which time I had frequent contact with the headmaster. One of his favourite sayings was that parents are often the biggest threat of all to their childrenâs future and, while he obviously meant it a bit tongue in cheek, over time I came to see his point.
Your lack of imagination would be stunning if it wasnât so scary.
sounds like he wanted to be the one controlling the minds of children not let parents intervene in the brainwashing
14:20 The percentage of the total number has pretty little relevance. Most if not all studies are done (see also polls and surveys) on a fraction of the total. The relevant part is whether the sample is representative of the whole. A too small number cannot be, but 12000? That should be sufficient *if* it's actually ensured to be representative. Which of course is, in this context, highly questionable since a lot of homeschoolers with "certain" motivations won't take part in such a study.
Yes there are other issues as well.... all of the respondents came from a pool of students who were affiliated with one homeschooling organization and participation was not mandatory but parents self reporting.
Yeah I did some quick back of the envelope calculation and with a 95%confidence there is a margin of error of less than 1% and even with 99% confidence it's around 1%. So while I agree the study clearly has problems the argument from sample *size* is a bad one. An argument from how the sample was chosen would be much better, as was done afterwards in the video.
Sample size is kind of my pet peeve because you see it brought up in almost every lay discussion on the internet and it rarely is the actual problem with a study.