USA vs. Germany: Prisons | A SHOCKING Look Behind Bars
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- Not only does the USA have the highest incarceration rate in the world... but it does so under conditions which are banned in Germany. From dramatic differences in prison population, standard of prison cells, rehabilitation and more... Can Germany teach the US a thing or two on how to do prison without unjust punishment?
Episode 97 | #USA #germany #americaningermany #punishment #prison #prisoner #germanprison #americanprison #solitaryconfinement #jail #justicesystem #criminaljustice | Filmed February 17th, 2023
Other videos in our Series on Crime:
THE BIG DEBATE: Gun Laws that Work | USA vs. The Rest World
• THE BIG DEBATE: Gun La...
USA vs. Germany: Is CRIME Really a Problem?
• USA vs. Germany: Is CR...
👉Quick Jump to Your Favorite Topic:
00:00 Intro
01:25 Politics of Prison in the USA
09:19 Prison Conditions between the United States and Germany
17:15 "Prison Wages" - Paid Prison Labor
22:25 Juvenile Detention - USA vs. germany
29:26 What do you think?
Other Great Videos on this Topic:
INJUSTICE: German and USA Prisons Compared By American Ex Prisoner Larry Lawton | 244 | @LarryLawtonJewelThief
• INJUSTICE: German and...
PRISON IN GERMANY WOULD BE A HOLIDAY FOR AMERICAN INMATES
by @ChristopherLRussell
• PRISON IN GERMANY WOUL...
Germany: Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America | Jeff Rosen | TEDxMountainViewHighSchool by @TEDx
• Germany: Low Crime, Cl...
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I always like to say: "If the prison system of another country seems like luxury to you, then maybe it's your own country that has a problem."
That part
Oh yes let’s send someone to prison to reward them with luxury
@@WillZingzong I don't think you understand it. Luxury is defined by ones owns countrie's living standards. As a German myself, this prison would certainly not be luxury for me. And the people there are not there without a cause. It's not like you can book a spa day or smth. Not being able to LEAVE is the ultimate punishment.
@@DanisachanIt doesn't depend on living standards. U.S. want to punish the prisoners, Germany wants to reintegrate.
Living standards in the U.S. aren't that worse compared to Germany
@@maxmustermann3093 Hm, I think I'd have to disagree. From what I have seen, a lot more of the US population are far poorer than in Germany.
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
-Fyodor Dostoevsky
How it treats its weakest members in general, if I might add.
@@shift-happens The US isn't winning any prizes either way. Except for the kind you don't want to win.
There is [and i know "TED Talk" will trigger some people] a great video about incarceration in the US vs. Germany and many other developed countries.
Here´s the link:
czcams.com/video/wtV5ev6813I/video.html
This speech made me even more thankful to be a german citizen. We came a long way and it was mainly the US who helped us become what we are today.
Knowing this, it is even more heartbreaking when you see the imprisonment developments in the US. It is industrialized. A shame.
I don't think the US is that bad as portrait. There are many social services available which very comparable to Gernany and are in some cases better in terms of the money they pay. For example I am on MediCaid and I had very good experiences with doctors and they pay actually for everything I have or had as an ailment. Many prisons ate pretty new and inmates get treated well enough. Also keep on mind Germany is less than perfect. There are many falling through the social security net. Retirement got cut pretty bad many people only getting like 1200$ a month for working 30 or 40 years. That isn't enough to life off even in Germany. I think this kind of turt throwing doesn't do any good for anybody. We should learn from each others mistakes without finger pointing.
So true. Someone pay Fyodor a beer.^^
i was 3years in a juvenile prison in germany. i did an apprenticeship there and today i work happily and contentedly in my job. I haven't broken a law since then. I was perfectly prepared for life afterwards. At all times I was treated like a human being. God bless our system.
I just wanted to say... I think that also speaks volumes to your own hard work and perseverance. I'm happy that you are part of our community and that you were able to find peace, happiness and fulfillment after juvenile detention.
I take my hat off to you good lady or sir.
I can tell you that America prisons are very violent inside. There is a problem with racial issues black😢against white and other racises. This is a huge part of the problem with violence in prisons. My current 3rd husband spent years in prison twice. I have been keeping him from committing crimes and returning. You see I used to work as military police. The unlikely couple right. Lol
However I have heard first hand from him and another person who where in prison. A main problem I found is nothing prepares prisoners for life outside of prison, so it makes sense that many will return with No support! I also found that prison in the United States is similar like a version of criminal education for all who go to prison. So if they want to learn more about how to do their crime better they get this information there. It is extremely sad when you think about it this way!
If you are Christian you definitely know the way our prisons work in the United States definitely it is not the answer. It is supposed to rehabilitate and punish the person who committed the crime, but what it really does is breed more prisoners for the future! They fail to rehabilitate in the prisons of terror! People who have to worry about just staying alive in prison!
❤1 Corinthians 15:33❤
"Do not be misled: 'Bad company corrupts good character'"
So even if there was good in a person entering prison it definitely has the potential of permanently leaving that person!
Negativity Begets Negativity and Positivity Begets Positivity!!!❣
USA prison systems definitely need to be fixed because they are failing not just the people serving the sentences, but the general population, after all we are the tax payers who pay for the prisoners. I find Switzerland only prison on 118 males interesting. Looks like they house the least amount of prisoners there!
Treating people horribly is not the answer!
Look at how horrible France treats it's prisoners and how many prisoners they have there. Seems like the worst people are treated the worse they become, which makes sense!
Proverbs 14:7-31
"Escape quickly from the company of fools; they're a waste of your time, a waste of your words"
Proverbs 13:20
"Make no friendship with a man given to anger, nor go with a wrathful man, lest you learn his ways and entangle yourself in a snare"
1 Corinthians 5
"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat"

Bible.com
“Bad company corrupts good morals.” Do not be fooled
1 Corinthians 15:33 New International Version (NIV) Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”

20schemesequip.com
False Gospel: “Cut Off Toxic People” | 20schemes Equip
Nov 4, 2020 - A glance at the book of Proverbs reminds us: “Make no friendship with a man given to anger, nor go with a wrathful man, lest you learn his ways and entangle yourself in a snare” (Prov. 13:20 ).

bible.com
Proverbs 14:7-31 Escape quickly from the company of fools - Bible.com
Proverbs 14:7-31 MSG. Escape quickly from the company of fools; they're a waste of your time, a waste of your words. The wisdom of the wise keeps life on track; the foolishness of fools lands them in the ditch. The stupid ridicule right and wrong, but a moral life is a favored life.

web.mit.edu
Bible Gateway 1 Corinthians 5 :: NIV - MIT
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
Generative AI is experimental.
I once did an internship as a minister in German prison. Some of the basic rules were that prisoners get addressed as Herr oder Frau XY and all employees have to give at least a short knock before they enter a cell. The US system of giving out numbers for prisoners dehumanises them. And reminds me of really dark times.
I watched a documentary where US prison officials visited a German prison and noticed this as well. I recall, one of the correctional officers saying "If you treat them like the enemy, they will react like the enemy" and the US officials seemed so surprised by this.
@@TypeAshton Yes, that’s the idea behind it. There’s a German saying that fits for many things, this problem too: Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es heraus.
I´m a official in a german prision, and yes, I can confirm that.
@@TypeAshton what is the name of the documentary? I would like to watch it^^
Germany used to call prisoners by numbers too. But it fortunately was abandoned after 1945.
Once I spent two months in a low security prison because I couldn't afford to pay a fine. We had tv, a kitchen on the floor and even balconys. We are allowed to use the outside earea all day. I can tell you that the loss of freedom IS already a punishment. There is no need to treat people like shit so that they loose their dignity. That is revenge not punishment and has a lot to do with the ancient and fundamental eye for an eye ideology.
You treat people like animals, they will start to behave like animals.
And we know what caging animals is doing to animals...
As you pointed out, the eye for an eye ideology, is pretty fundamental. That's human behavior for you. Now the fact that victims are not allowed that behavior anymore, must also be part of the punishment the state poses upon the perpetrator. If the victim is not allowed to do it, because of the monopoly of violence for the state, the state must somehow take over. So, I would like to have two parts of the sentence, 1. time needed for correction of behavior, and 2. time to serve for revenge. The latter is a bit underwhelming in Europe in my opinion.
@@ronaldderooij1774 well this is a good topic for long discussions. Imagine one action is considered to be bad and evil whereas the same action in revenge is called a good thing.
@@achimschroter8046 I do not advocate reciprocity. I only advocate that criminals should serve (extra) time to repay for the harm they have done to victims (and their relatives).
@@ronaldderooij1774 Is the goal to turn criminals to law following citizens? One system works better than the other in this regard. And making victims feel good about the punishment does actualy leed in the end to more victims due to criminals in that system does more often go back to crime.
The idea that prisoners in the US can't vote is mind-boggling to me. That's how you undermine a democracy: All you gotta do to stay in power is make sure that the people who would vote against you are criminalized. It's insane.
Not only prisoners. In many states you lose your right to vote _for life_ if you get convicted of a felony. You can recover the right through a specific pardon process, good luck with that.
Oh its not just prisoner. By deniing groups the right to vote, you dont have to pamper and convince them to vote for you. You only have a limited amount off resources you can spend, so why spend it on people who cannot vote in the first place.
Children cant vote, so no need to reform the actual education. Rather you pamper the parents.
Prisoners cant vote, so no need to reform the actual incarcaration system. Rather you pamper the Revengeist and Slavers.
People with heavy mental sicknesses cannot vote, so just let them rot in a cheap asylum.
From a politicians point off view expanding the voter base always weakens your own position. Even if the people you want to include would vote for you, your limited resources force you to spend less on the people who already vote for you and are already allowed to vote. This off course makes them susceptible to politician who dont want to expand the voter base and rather spend the resources on them.
Wow... so the US has a shortcut to a dictatorship directly enshrined into it's laws? That's actually quite horrifying.
@@NavaSDMB And when you have 1 out of every 200 people in jain, it's not a small number.
umm I think in around in the world in general many more people would be more amazed prisoners are allowed to vote than not
Hey there! I'm a social worker, did I tell you? I worked with the "criminal youth" in different projects. They weren't imprisoned but had to serve several (working) hours in community service while still attending their school or apprenticeship. I don't do that anymore because I found another job, but these four or five years I worked with these young people confirmed my opinion that if you give a young person a chance, most of them will take it. Not all, of course; you can't have a 100% success rate, and, after all, what's "success"? I remember I taught a girl how to cook: She was 17 and had never prepared a meal for herself. And I had a real good guy who developed his talent in working on and painting doors in an old building.
The German system is about the youth being educated, not punished. You punish a young person, you get a criminal adult who wants what he thinks is vengeance. That can't lead to anything good.
Ah wow thank you so much for providing your personal insight and stories. I think this approach makes so much sense and it often breaks my heart when I think about the damage being done to young people who are incarcerated, yet still have so much potential. I agree, there won't ever be a 100% success rate, but I think a lot of angst and anger carried by young adults come from a place of not being seen, heard, appreciated, or valued. When you can help to cultivate that sense of accomplishment and self-worth, it goes a long way.
Hey, was, wenn einer der Gefangenen, die du betreut hast, eine minderjährige vergewaltigt hat und jetzt für maximal zwei Jahre in ein komfortables Jugend Gefängnis kommt. Findest du das gerechtfertigt? Und würdest du unser Hotel-ähnliches Gefängnissystem dann immer noch bevorzugen?
@@axwest1 Gerade bei sowas! In einer sicheren Umgebung eine Selbstreflexion auslösen, die Gründe feststellen etc. so dass das nie mehr auftritt weil nicht einfach nur auf die Angst vor dem Gefängnis vertraut wird. Das letzteres nicht funktioniert beweist die USA - was exakt in diesem Video behandelt wird.
In anderen Ländern sind die Haftbedingungen noch besser und die Ergebnisse auch. Oft haben die Insassen einfach nie gelernt sich „normal“ zu verhalten.
Leider weicht das eigene Empfinden sehr oft von wissenschaftlichen Erkenntnissen ab - egal welches Thema.
A prisoner/ex-prisoner in Germany does not lose his guaranteed rights.
1. Article 1 GG "Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state power to respect and protect it."
2. The right to be “forgotten” represents the citizen's option not to have the sentence made publicly available after the sentence has been served.
3. The non-deprivation of the "right to vote", the right of a voter to vote in an election.
In the US, this is also not the case. But partially it is, and that's also coming to Germany through the migration waves and forced multiculturalism. In the US, this was a forced obligation towards supporting the Socialist State, and increased Civil duty "voluntarily". (John F. Kennedy did this, while being under threat of Moscow, and Republicans stood against it.) Those who didn't serve for the liberal-socialist American Roosevelt "New Deal" State, got imprisoned and therefor couldn't change the system through voting. So that's why Roosevelts Socialist USA collapsed.
@@schadelharry4048 I dont know what you are smoking but Roosevelt was not a socialist. Not even close lmaoo
@@schadelharry4048 American trying to grasp even basic political concepts in real time
@@schadelharry4048please do share the drugs you’re on, I’d love some 😂😂😂
I did time. I don't even have a felony, but I have lost my right to live, hope is lost. Whatever you do in the US, they take away your right to travel, which they call a privilege. I lost my right to drive indefinitely, and you can't work without a car in most of the US. I have never been in a car accident, nor harmed a soul. It is a carefully devised system that targets minorities. I know that I will return to prison again, because one must break the law in order to survive here. They won't let me leave this nation either, which I served in the US Navy for. Life sucks for me, but it's WAAAY worse for a felon. We all hate our government. HATE!
There is also a HUGE difference in education between American prison guards and German prison guards. It is actually pretty difficult to become a German prison guard. You have lessons in social workings, conflict management, basic psychiatry and many others.
Funny enough, I actually had a section dedicated to this but had to cut it due to time. But YES it is interesting. The German acceptance rate to become a correctional officer is around 10% and requires 2 years of training. In the US, they have a huge shortage and the training is 3 months.
@@TypeAshton 3 months only? That is nuts!
And only a high school diploma in some states.
This is also the case in other areas of the justice system. To be a police officer you complete training that takes several years and is first degree level. Anything higher than the equivalent of a sergeant requires a Masters equivalent. Similarly with the judicial system. Lawyers do their first degrees and sometimes second degrees in a fairly standard way, but there comes a point in the career path of all lawyers where they have to choose between continuing in representative practice or becoming a judge. Being a judge is largely a matter of high level and formal training. This is largely due to the judiciary being regarded as a fundamentally professional task. The technical nature of enforcement also affects the conduct of court cases. The hearing is never a piece of theatre where lawyers have leave to unleash their inner orator and invent emotional rhetoric. Most cases, civil and criminal, are primarily determined on documentary evidence with a final hearing to handle updated or exceptional argument. Add to this the regulation that forbids media from naming defendants until sentencing and even permanently and you can see that the whole intention of justice is fundamentally different in Germany.
@@TypeAshton Wow. That's hard 😮 Unbelievable
Dear Ashton, your work should be on prime time televisión, both in the US and over here. Truly magnificent.
I never knew people in the US voted for judges, that is such a bizarre thought to me!
May I say your videos are put together so well, I can't imagine the hours that must have gone into this. Thank you!
They also vote for their Sheriff.
This varies widely by state. And federal judges are appointed to life terms. Like everything in the US, it’s difficult to generalize.
Great video, as always.
As you mentioned drugs: I can give you a US-Germany comparison on this from my experience. I have worked for a pharmaceutical company that produced opioids, and I got to experience the opioid crisis from the inside (in Germany). We never had the same problem anywhere in the world, even though we were selling the opioids everywhere. The same ones that caused such a problem in the US. And - apart from the absolutely unethical marketing practises for opioids in the US - the problem had several other causes.
1) Legislation: In Europe, you could neither market nor sell opioids in the same way as in the US. E.g., prescriptions for opiods in Germany come in 3 copise: 1 remains with the doctor, the second with the pharmacist and the 3rd with the health insureance. That way, it is almost impossible to fake prescriptions by adding a 0 to the number of tablets. Also, doctor shopping (going from doctor to doctor to get a prescription for opioids) is not possible, as the health insurances will notice and get back to the doctors. Also, marketing for prescription drugs is restricted. And patients always have health insurance that pays for the medication. We had many cases in the US where people lost their health insurance or got in a different scheme and from one day to the next had to discontinue their medication, which caused withdrawal reactions. Also, in Europe you only get medication pre-packaged with a patient information sheet, which for opiodes includes the warning of possoble addiction.
2) Cultural differences: In the drug addiction cases from the US I first heard the term "recreational use". This is not a concept in Europe. With very few exceptions, nobody takes medication just for fun. This is also very apparent in the movies. E.g., in the movie "Knives Out" an old man gets a prescription for an opioid, and from there on only refers to it as "the good stuff". I have asked all my friends if they or their parents or grantparents would call an opioid medication "the good stuff", and nobody said that they would. I have seen that in many movies and TV shows from the US, using prescription medication for fun or "forbiddden pleasure" is portayed in a positive light a lot. So there seems to be a culure of "let's pop some pills and have fun" in the US. And when we did clinical studies with opioids, we always did a drug test with the patients before they were eligible for the clinical trial. In Europe, there was only a handful of patients (less than 10) out of more than 2500 patients who failed the drug test. In the US, it was 30-40% in every clinical trial! And that was not young thrill-seekers, but patients who were in their 50s or 60s on average.
Maybe, this is an idea for a future video? Why was the opioid crisis only happening in the US. You could at least compare the legal background, maybe with some official numbers on drug addiction. You don't have to - it's just an idea, in case you are looking for topics for further videos.
Ah man, the opioid crisis would be a GREAT subject for a future video. I'd need to do quite a bit of research up front because it is so complex, but I think this could be a really fascinating subject.
Interestingly there is _a lot_ of recreational drug use in Germany, but it's... different, I'd say. Apart from cannabis (which is everywhere) mostly party drugs like amphetamine, ecstasy, LSD, ketamine, cocaine, and - of course - the legal alcohol which is _very_ available (one can buy beer with 16, and it's perfectly ok to drink in public or even at the office), but for some reason doesn't even barely have the impact as say vodka has in Russia. Opioids in the other hand simply aren't available; prescriptions are rare and I haven't ever met any drug dealer who sold something like this. There is a bit of a heroine scene, but it's relatively under control and addicts even are provided with facilities for safer use, get help from social workers, and so on, which did a great deal to reduce problems and harm.
We are also one of the few countries where metamizole is still widely used as a painkiller, where otherwise opiates are already prescribed in other countries. I talked to my family doctor about this at one point. He is of the opinion that he would rather accept 50 deaths a year in Germany due to agranulocytosis (a serious side effect of metamizole that is fatal in 1/4 of cases) than thousands of opioid addictions a year. I find such topics very interesting, although I am a complete non-expert and also do not work in the medical field. 🙈🙃But that could perhaps be a small part of the explanation.
I wonder about how the push to decriminalize drug use/possession differs. The Netherlands, for instance, is known for 'tolerating' drugs like weed even though they're technically illegal. Here in Canada, cannabis is legalized, regulated, and taxed. As a non-smoker I cannot handle the smell walking down the street. This January, the Canadian Minister of Health granted the province of British Columbia a four-year exception to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA) for possession of up to 2.5 grams of certain drugs, thus decriminalizing their use in BC (police charges for drugs are under the CDSA, so the excemption means police in BC (federal and municipal) cannot press charges for that.
@@TypeAshtonet's be honest in the end it always boils down to one reason for any crisis in the US.
"Profit incentive"
If there's money to be made off of human suffering the us will be one of the first countries to implement it. And always is short term profit. And I'm not claiming it's nonexistent or even that much better in the rest of the world but the US always dials up to 11 on these things.
Edit: i just realised that European pieces of shit... Ehm I meant (publicly traded) companies just outsource this suffering to Africa or other less developed nations. Like Nestle and their baby formula genocide.
You should do a story about prisons in Norway, especially the prison in the city of Halden. The philosophy is that the inmate could be your neighbor when they are out of prison. So why not prepare them for a new life?
Yeah I saw the story about the prison in Norway how the prisoner is let out of the prison to take a dip and the Cold Lake
What do you mean she "should do a story" about Norway? She lives in Germany. Why don't you do a story about Norway?
@@motioninmind6015 Because Norwegian prison system is even better than the German. And I guess she want to show not only differences between USA vs Germany but Europe in general..
@@motioninmind6015 why shouldn't she do a story about Norway. Living in Germany doesn't mean you cannot research about another country. She is a youtuber and is quiet good in research why shouldn't she use those skills to talk about Norway?
For a country with a lot of land and low population that approach works. However, Germany and the US have far more people to deal with which also means more prisoners absolutely speaking that is statistically inevitable. Additionally Norway has a lot of land which is quiet inhospitable and lacks infrastructure to prevent prisoners to escape without walls, cells or fences.
I'm a pretty average german male. But when I think back into my teens, there were a lot of close calls. I never did anything outrageous (never drank alcohol or did any drugs), but teens are stupid. If I just had the wrong friends or went to a wrong party I would easily have a police record today. I think we have to face that it's easy to make just one wrong choise and with bad luck, you find yourself in court.
I'm glad to live in a country where judges and the justice-system is respecting this.
Even then it would not necessarily lead to a criminal record. I'm at "the wrong parties" all the time and doing recreational drug use for 25 years, and in all that time had _one_ unpleasant contact to the police, which resulted in a fine of 400€. Not in Berlin, but in Bavaria.
Germans are often seen as law abiding, but actually we are more fond of rules, which are not necessarily identical to laws. If one sticks to rules and don't causes harm, there are surprising possibilities for freedom above the law without necessarily coming into conflict with the state (which will mostly ignore you).
Don't do drugs and alcohol outrageous? LOL. The teens here sell drugs.The thug teens here will kill you and your friend and then go rob a liquor store the same day. And then rape someone the next day. We have thuggery that Germany will never see. What you are were thinking of doing was truancy, teens here are already hardcore criminals by the age of 16. They call it getting "street cred". They view criminality like a college diploma. Maybe we should ship 500k of then to Germany and see how see if you can rehabilitate them.
I'm from Germany and i have to make a slight correction. Between the age of 18-21 i think the judge can decide to use the juvenile justice for teenagers or the normal one for adults. So the judge has a little bit more freedom. If someone is 19 (and in Germany you are considered as an adult) and a first offender, then most judges use the juvenile justice. If it is some one with a longer criminal history then they use the normal one.
The specific kind of sentencing used is decided on a case by case basis. If you are living at home with 20 and get into a bar fight or similiar its probably going to be juged by juvenile standards, if you are 19 working as a bank clerk you will be juged as an adult, but mental development and other social factors can be considered as well.
@@mobuildsstuff Actually it depends on your individual maturity and also on the character of the crime, whether it is an adult type of behaviour or or a more juvenile thing. Trespassing into a public swimming pool is more likely to put you into the juvenile system than drug trafficing.
The USA: Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Also USA: Ignores suggestions from every other country doing other things with better result because… “we are the greatest country in the world”
Another interesting fact in German and some other countrie's prison system is, that escaping from a prison is not penalized in itself. It is regarded a basic human instinct to escape from captivity, and as such it cannot be punished.
What would be penalized of course is, if during your escape you commit other crimes, hurt people etc.
Hi Ashton, another great video from you! I think, that the German prison system also adheres to the first article of our constitution: "Human dignity is untouchable." This is true for every human being, even the most violent criminals. This also means that inmates also have a right to a kind of privacy. Holding them in cages with everything in the open is not acceptable under article 1 Grundgesetz.
You hit on the root of all the problems in the US - the Constitution itself.
I'd enjoy a thorough video exploring the vast differences between the German and American constitutions.
The US Constitution allows prisoners to be treated as slaves, literally.
13th amendment:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States ...
@@motioninmind6015 This explains the chain gangs and all the other inhuman treatment of imprisoned people.
@@knudvoecking yes. You can literally (a rare moment when that word is accurate) become a slave, a literal, 18th century slave, by going to jail for a minor offence. The state can do anything it wants with slaves.
@@motioninmind6015 That’s horrible. Thanks for explaining it.
Yes that is how it should be. Undoubtedly we have a long way to go in the US. But Germany too. In many cases too many prisoners are locked in one cell so that there isn't privacy. Inmates can remain imprisoned for minor offenses through Sicherungsverwahrung. There is a lot of violence in prisons which isn't account for. There are quiet a lot ofescapes which is a potential problem for victims and society.
Deprivation of freedom of movement is the punishment in Germany. Not the conditions of the accommodation during it.
How can we expect a prisoner to reintegrate into society after his sentence if he is treated in this way?
There are many who don't appear to recognise that. They seem more to regard prison as somewhere to put people, to make it easier to punish them in other ways.
Yeah, why should i intergrate into a society that deems its absolutely normal to put me 23 hours a day into a room and prohibit people to speak with me. Continuing for days, weeks years.
Thats literally HOW YOU MAKE ENEMIES.
The entire US prison system is eerily perfect at destorying the mental stability of everyone involved (but the person counting the money they get to violate basic rules of humanity), not only inmates. But as a guard you go either down a dark road and totally cannot comprehend how people can be SO EVIL to each other, or they accept it and advocate for its continuation.
There are many prisons in the U.S. like that as well, though.
The way one can determine the level of a civilization is to take a look at their prisons.
"A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals."
"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons." (The House of the Dead (1862))
"Generally speaking, our prisoners were capable of loving animals, and if they had been allowed they would have delighted to rear large numbers of domestic animals and birds in the prison. And I wonder what other activity could better have softened and refined their harsh and brutal natures than this. But it was not allowed. Neither the regulations nor the nature of the prison made it possible."
All Quotes: Fjodor Michailowitsch Dostojewski (1821 - 1881)
@@dirkspatz3692 good quotes
What I find astonishing is that democracy and voting is on the list of human rights. But in America you lose your right to vote if convicted of a felony.. Lots of other things that is considered basic human needs in other countries (like health care and the right to a fair trials) that is not available in the USA.
Another interesting video, thanks! In my first week of criminal law at uni here in Germany our professor started by introducing us to all the philosophies around punishment and the needs of society vs the needs of the perpetrator. One of the things that struck with me is the notion that people are born not truly free but are immediately subjected to a society and its laws. While I'm no supporter of Anarchism it's good to remind oneself of this when taking people's freedom away. The idea is that we need to not hand out "Freiheitsstrafe" (incarceration) freely, because freedom is such a valuable human right.
The benefit of locking someone up for society is not just to deter people from committing the same crime but also to make those who adhere to laws feel good about doing so (imagine how glad you felt as a kid if your parents yelled at your sibling and not you because you were a good kid). As for the perpetrator themself you need to think about the punitive element ofc, but also about the rehabilitation. This becomes especially apparent with young offenders. Bavaria likes to lock kids up for a few weeks to "scare them straight". What that actually does is it tears them out of their social circle, puts a stigma on them and introduces them to a far worse crew than they were generally associated with. Idk if they still do it, I hope not.
In my view, the core function of the state is to protecht its citizens (by police, judges and armed forces). By ancient law, victims had the right to revenge. The state (rightly) took away that right to prevent escalation leading to chaos and anarchy (see gang wars, etc). But we must never forget, that punishment is also on the table, not only correction of behavior. And yes, I agree with your professor that taking away freedom should not be done lightly. Innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. I concur. But I miss in my country (NL) the punishment factor. I think the victims have a (very ancient) right to it.
One reason the US has as much incarceration as it does is the lack of defense attorneys. This causes many defendants to enter a guilty plea to a lesser charge for a reduced prison sentence, and sometimes these defendants have committed no crime whatever.
@@ronaldderooij1774 the punishment is to take away the freedom, that’s pretty severe
@@karinland8533 I agree, I don't want any other punishment. But if I see the amount of time some criminals have to serve. I don't understand the sentence. Generally I would like to see longer sentences. And yes, I am aware that this would not help society, as it has no effect on recidivism rates. But I think criminals should also serve time to satisfy the inhibition of the right of revenge that the victims suffer.
@@ronaldderooij1774 yes, sometimes the short sentences are not comprehensive
I'm about 90 per cent sure that legalizing all drugs would have fewer bad consequences for society than the war in drugs has had. Especially if you invested drug tax revenue in prevention and health care for addicts.
Education is the best method to reduce drugs abuse. Openly talk about the social effects drugs have in schools. And why relate a problem with tax?
Does McDonalds pay for heart and brain clinics? Fat-tax?
@@dutchman7623 Schools are also tax-funded, though.
@@Funaru Yes, but not only out of book-tax.
Wow Aschton, how do you manage to put out such high quality videos at such a high frequency?
Lots of coffee. 😉
@@TypeAshton no joke!!!
Great video and again well researched. While Germany is not top-notch at humanity in imprisonment like Norway and Finland it's on a good way though.
Fun fact: unlike in the US escape from prison is not a crime in itself in Germany as the pursuit for freedom is protected in the constitution (Grundgesetz).
However if a prisoner commits supporting crimes on his way out like assault on or hostage-taking of a guard or damage of public property that will of course be charged later on.
So while I feel you did outline some major differences, I feel it’s a bit like a picture book for Germany. The high demand of therapy is still not entirely covered in prisons, there are also cases e.g. related to severe crime cases where less therapists or conseiler are comfortable. So some prisoners do request support and don’t get it. It probably is good that the general approach allows a slightly better treatment but it’s still tough. I also watched a ton of documentaries on how things are handled in Scandinavian countries and it’s so cool: they have people live in regular houses in the middle of regular neighbourhoods living a regular (but watched and guided) life to ensure a maximum ability of showing irl ability to live. A few pilot projects mostly for youth have similar ideas but we‘re still very much behind. So perhaps comparing the German system to a Scandinavian system might be eye opening as well in terms of - I feel what we do is the bare minimum in Germany and has lots of space for improvement.
I completely agree with you, but your comment and especially the fact that you say “it’s the bare minimum” goes to show how bad the situation in the US actually is which was the purpose of this video.
Germany has its problems on the topic, but obviously are working on it and searching for optimization. It's not easy to make the Scandinavian workaround as their economic situation is different.
On the other hand, the video shows how the US not only doesn't want to change their ways, but they are also having completely different goal - to make money out of it - and are not willing to change it, just patch around it.
@@CHarlotte-ro4yi totally. I just had the impression the German system was a bit idealised in terms of what is aimed to be achieved is all nice and stuff but not always the reality in terms of what is possible. I also recently had a tour at the LWL clinic in Dortmund where they explained how the forensic works and honestly … that’s a place people get good care, enough day light and for the circumstances it isn’t all that bad but I don’t feel it’d be fair for non Germans not knowing better (e.g. I personally know therapists working in prison contexts) that it‘d all be that way.
I hope we manage to improve how we treat people in prison everywhere. It’s such a shame we fail especially young people that ofc are also responsible but probably had a more tough start from the start.
Germany - we don't manage to provide sufficient therapy, the Scandinavians do better, shame on us.
USA - We routinely meet the UN definition of torture within our prison system but we're not tough enough.
Rest of the World - Germany, chill brah, you ain't the issue here.
@@happylittlevibe You do realise those same caveats apply to the Scandinavian countries as well? At some point you won't be able to give everybody the support they need simply because you ran out of therapists. And AFAIK, that "Hausarrest" exists in Germany as well. You're likely overestimating how prevalent it is.
You're being unduly hard on Germany here. At least it makes an effort to improve. The US isn't even trying.
Wow, somehow I didn't know that in the US people vote their judges? Another amazing video in top quality. I have to say, too, I am impressed how high the quality and frequency is. There is certainly a lot of time going into the research, script and recordings. =)
To be honest, even before I moved to Germany, I found this practice super weird. I remember going to vote, seeing the ballot and thinking.... How am I supposed to be qualified to select things like judges? Do most people put in the due diligence to see who is the most qualified or is the best at their job? I'm not a human resources director. Why does it matter if they're democrat or republican? They're supposed to be impartial, right? Who is just the best person for the job?
@@TypeAshton Don't you also elect the head of the police / sheriff in some states? That's weird too.
@@ThePixel1983 It only stimulates the old boys network, where all civil positions are in the hands of a small clan, supporting each other.
she is an intellectual - the culture of universities structures our way of data adsorbtion, processing and then presentation of the processed outcome, so by now it is natural to her, I guess
all the video editing is an immense part of extra work but still she manages to present it effortlessly, facts fluffily flow right to my brain and WOW the US makes me sad, they need help
Yes, in the area I grew up we do. Again, seems strange.
On the one hand, I can appreciate that the public has a direct way to oust "bad eggs" when they see someone abusing power. But I would imagine that most voters don't have any clue about the professional or training records of the choices they are presented with to vote for. And once that becomes partisan, it also kind of undermines the whole "best person for the job" mentality, since most are likely to just vote along party lines.
I think that on this subject it is important to take into account the following data: The average number of prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants is 98 in the European Union, in the United States it exceeds 600, a figure similar to countries such as Brazil, Rwanda or El Salvador. It is clear that something is wrong in the United States: prison system, judicial system, social policies, education, social inequality...
This is because of all blacks who live in USA
The US prison system is also considered the largest mental health system. Once the terrible mental health hospitals were closed, many of the residents ended up in prison, either temporarily or permanently with no where to be released to.
The first Video of this channel I saw was about the income comparison for singles and families. I expected it to be the same dull arguments that are seen everywhere else, but I was proven wrong by how on point and detailed your research is as well as by how honest you are to yourself regarding the accuracy of the data you present!
Sadly I don't have the time to watch all your videos (because they require a certain amount of attention, unlike other forms of entertainment) but I want to say that I really appreciate the value of your content!
Thank you so much! I'm really glad you are enjoying our content!
As someone who has been following this channel for quite a while, I absolutely agree with you. Even if you don't have the time (or the interest) to watch all of the videos, it pays to scroll through the list and check if there is anything that sounds interesting. I've learned a lot from their videos, even about topics I already knew about.
I think that the biggest difference between the two systems is that in Germany the Times of sentence is Seen AS the punishment, but not so much the life you have behind Bars, versus in the US the Times and the stay in prison is Seen AS punishment. That makes a big difference for inmates and Personal.
It goes even deeper than that. In Europe (including Germany) the punishment is seen as a chance to rehabilitate. So it is not primarily meant to be a punishment. It is the means to "correct" deviant behavior. The sentence then, is more the time it will take for correction. I have my own opinions about that (that go a bit more towardS the US kind of thinking). In my view, the most fundamental reason of existence of a state, is protection of its people (by police, judge and armed forces). So, in my view, the state replaces the victim's revenge to avoid chaos and anarchy.
@@ronaldderooij1774 valid points Ronald. New food for thought 👍🏻😎
@@ronaldderooij1774 Frankly, the idea behind prison is less punishment or even correction than the protection of society. Prison is for people who are a danger to society and will stay a danger to society unless something changes. But it is always the last ressourt, when all the other correction measures have failed or are simply not enough.
@@swanpride Yes, and I disagree with that policy.
@@ronaldderooij1774 I wonder what's the reasoning behind the disagreement. I kinda think it makes a lot of sense. The best protection for the people is not only to keep them from chaotic revenge - but also to prevent crimes to happen in the first place. Wouldn't you agree?
Again, Thanks for this well reserched, well written and well edited video! You are doing a very good job ! Every week!
Let's get to the content: As a German, I think it all breaks down to how do you see other human beings.
Do you treat everybody with respect, do you see everybody as equal on a fundamental level, or do you put yourself above the others?
The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the first article of the German Grundgesetz ('constitutiuon') :
article 1 :
(1) Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
(2) The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world.
(3) The following basic rights shall bind the legislature, the executive and the judiciary as directly applicable law.
If you do not treat others with respect, you will not be respected. if you'll expand this view to a national, or even to a global level, you'll only have a 'healthy', respectful society, if you'll treat every single individual with respect and dignity.... Unfortunatly, the USA is developping the opposite way, I think.
Anyway, have a nice sunday! Grüße aus der Südpfalz!
"Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar" counts for inmates and esses, too.
This is some quality content here and not yet another vid about the top 10 most shocking culture shocks in Germany. Number 8 will blow your fkn mind type of content.
Hello Ashton, happy Sunday! In my opinon the incaseration rate has to do with the fact that you have no chance as a polician in the US without being tough against crime and that the US Prison system is in parts a private system that has to bring profit. About the treatment of the inmates in the US is mre like lock them up and forget about them.
In Germany most of the inmates will be back in society and should have the chance to become "normal" citicens and neighbors.
Also there is the Prämable of the Basic Law which says " Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authorty". Best regards Ralf
Hi Ralf! It's interesting. Only 6 percent of US prisons are private. The vast majority are state or government owned. Now they do contract out some services to private businesses (like food, for example), but that happens in Germany as well.
I only learn something like in the past 2 years about the US Prison profit system where each person is worth around 40k.
@@TypeAshtonIt’s good to hear that we are getting better as a country in terms of our penal system, but do the public prisons still have the hellish restrictions that the private ones had, such as occupancy quotas and the arbitrary handouts of infractions?
This was REALLY REALLY good and well researched, and fantastically interresting. You have a nack for gathering complex information and then communicate that in a clear and structured way, without being patronizing in any way. On a quality scale from one to ten, this was fifteen!!!!!!
Ah wow thank you so, so much.
In Hesse (perhaps in other states too) we had a program that allowed bands to play in prisons and I participated with two of my bands in three different prisons. One was for prisoners under 21 and one was for adults sentenced to more than 3 years in prison. And because we played songs from the Blues Brothers movies, we at least have small connection to prisoners at all. And those gigs were really nice. There were two prisoners especially ordered to help us getting our equipment from the entry to the stage and back after the gig. They were listening and happy and at the end some of them danced to our music. So perhaps treating prisoners as humans and give them the opportunity to participate in events people outside of the prison can have is a way to rehabilitate them and to give them a chance to live a life without crime after they get released.
There is also a video comparing German prison system to the system in the US. And yes, we have also those individuals that have to stay for the rest of their life. They can get locked up after they fulfilled their sentence if they show no remorse.
I also heard that the wine made by juvenile prisoners in Neustrelitz tastes much better than the average toilet wine in US prisons. (my attempt to make a really serious topic a little bit more light hearted).
Another difficult topic covered in a splendit way.
Thanks for it. 🥰
I can confirm first hand that there are nice things coming out of German prison workshops. I have some very very nice office furniture and a superb office chair manufactured in JVA Butzbach. Everyone can place their order there. It's not cheap, but it's worth it.
Another amazing Video! Great research!
Thank you very much for your thoroughly researched and
prepared video contributions. Such posts are not often found.
The big problem is a privatized Prison system in the US so there are people interested in huge amounts of prisoners and long sentences.
Gday Ashton, thank you for your interesting video comparing prison systems . It’s very interesting to hear the different approaches taken for both adults and juvenile offenders.
It seems America has a lot of work to do on their prison systems by comparison.
Well done on your presentation and research. I’m always amazed where you get all the graphics and clips for your videos. It really enhances the viewer experience. 👏👏👏
Seeing those conditions in US prisons really makes me wonder if this is a developt country. I mean I would expect such in Russia, Iran, Aufghanistan or similiar countries, but not a developt one.
You're noticing the third world theme too... a little peculiar. Not sure what economic metrics would support this inference, other than possibly the gini ratio and poverty rate which wouldn't seem compelling on its own but perhaps there's some explanation.
@@LyricsQuest whats peculiar about this? We are not talking about economics, poverty rates or even the gini rate. We are talking about "conditions in prisons" and compared with other countries, this point (and we are not talin about something else) let the US fall behind western standards and in a row with Russia, Iran and other less developt countries. There are other things than "economic development".
By the way it is not a "third world theme" from my part, as Russia belongs to the second world. But since soviet times Russia is an autocratic system and like most of them these systems focus not on problem solving (like most western countries do), they focus on punishment an supression. I wonder why the US does the same when it somes to prisons. It is not about the money. If it where, they should approach it a different way, that would safe some money.
Another Sunday and another great video, and as noted so well researched and the presentation is topnotch (no partisan talking points, just facts backed up by numbers).
As you mentioned in the video the main difference seems to be the "underlying" valuation of people and how much is "invested" into them becoming productive citizens (I've mentioned before that I believe well funded schools and teachers are the cornerstone of a healthy society and this seems to reinforce this).
Anyways keep up the great content!
I would agree to the well funded schools as cornerstone, but add that parents that have personal and social values that get inherited to their children is at lest as important.
@@BalduinTube totally agree but "responsible" parents dont just spring into existence, good ethics and social morales should be all around you when growing up helping you to become such a parent.
Unfortunately here in the Netherlands we seem to be (slowly) moving in the other direction becoming more and more individualistic (USA-like) and "less" community minded even though we would not have achieved our individual "succes" without the community.
@@awijntje14 True, I knew this is kind of a Egg-Hen Problem. In my opinion Parents were first, because someone had to decide to build schools. And yes, the general cultural stream in western world was more on the individualistic side in the past decades. In the young generation today I do see a lot of movement into a more social direction. Many of them are no longer willing to just copy what their parents did. This gives me hope for the future since this is a healthy way to develop as a society.
When you mentioned 'law and order approach'. I recalled a comment the guide made during a tour of the Danish central bank, 'the Americans likes to play cops-and-robbers, so they dont invest into difficult to copy money'. This happened in the context of who they were comparing notes with during design of the new set of kroner-bill. This was about 15 years ago.
I see you've watched "The German prison program that inspired Connecticut" from 60 Minutes in preparation of this video :D
Ashton my highest compliments on your great reports, thank you. You are a vital part on my sundays;)
Thank you so much for the compliment!
In Germany it’s More like this: When someone is sent to prison they are removed from family and society and confined for their sentence.
That is their punishment!
The prison is not to punish them further, only to make sure they serve the terms of their sentence. And, if possible, help them find a way to survive on the outside that doesn't involve crime. Maybe America you‘ve forgotten that. Prison isn't supposed to be a punishment. Removal from family and society is the punishment.
The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
- Fyodor Dostojevski
Outstanding reporting, as always!
Regarding the obscenely low wages in the American prison system, it may be due to the fact that slavery hasn't been completely abolished:
AMENDMENT XIII - Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Work is always voluntary, but yes the pay is low. Here in CA prisoners play a large role in fighting our regular wildfires. It’s considered rehabilitative in that they develop skills and self-esteem, but most local fire departments won’t hire them afterwards because of their criminal records. Governor Newsom is working to change this.
If slavery is “completely abolished”, then we may have to stop punishing criminals.
An amazing video! Thank you. The contrast is amazing, particularly for young offenders. At the end I was waiting for the comparison recidivism rate in the US. I was very pleased to see that in Germany, those released are given help finding a job and housing; one time when I was out jogging early in the morning in SE Washington DC, a man asked me for money but it transpired that he had been released the day before and had nowhere to go so he had slept on a bus stop bench overnight and was now desperately thirsty. Given that no effort was made to help him get back on his feet, it seemed inevitable that he would commit another crime to survive and go back in.
I know it would be a very difficult metric to try to track/gather. But I am also very curious how many re-offend simply because they need food/shelter/care and they would be homeless otherwise - or just that living out in the "real" world is too overwhelming - In other words, the "Brooks Hatlen" character in the movie the Shawshank Redemption.
@@TypeAshton It is a long time since I saw the film and I dont' recall that particular character. What I do remember is the violence in the prison from both the staff and the other prisoners.
Here in SE DC, there were a dozen or so gunshots across the street earlier this evening. To their credit, police arrived very quickly followed by a fire truck and an ambulance but it seems no one was actually shot and they left within an hour. Someone was shot and killed a few weeks ago inside the Metro station I normally use to go to work. Although I am generally in favor of prison reform, it is hard not to think, "lock him up and throw away the key" with such violence. As you laid out in your previous video, the gun violence in the US is orders of magnitude worse than other developed countries.
@@TypeAshton So we should give criminals jobs and housing that we don't provide to good citizens???
Very nice video and really informative. Thanks for the tag/link love to my own video on this topic.❤️
Of course! You have great content and I wanted to give if a shout out in case others want to continue learning more about this subject.
By the way, the Federal Constitutional Court just today ruled in favor of two prisoners that hourly rates of 2€ or less are unconstitutional. The federal states must amend the relevant laws by the end of June 2025.
"...those next-to-nothing wages they receive, often go right back to the prison; which charges them for basic neccessities like *MEDICAL VISITS* and *HYGIENE ITEMS"*
...i feel like i have to throw up.
What if a prisoner refuses to spend money on soap, tooth paste or shower gel?
Don't they get any?
I had this EXACT thought.
@@dutchman7623 Get charged with hygienic negligence and reckless endangerment of corrections officers, sentenced to forced cleaning procedures, dragged into the showers by four guards and charged exceedingly high "operational fees" on top of a hefty fine for disobedience.
Did i make this up? Or did I look it up?
Scary that this isn't immediately obvious, isn't it?
US prisons are the factual continuation of slavery
@@TypeAshton Here in America they just force u and charge u anyway and then hit u with a longer sentence if ur a convicted felon in America u have no rights ur award of the state and they can do whatever they want
Hi, Ashton,
great work as always.
One thing that surprised me was that - as one reason for the high incarceration rate in the US. - you didn't mention privately owned for-profit prisons that have contractual guarantees that the local authorities will always see to it that the prisons are always filled to 80%, 90%, sometimes even 100%.
Are they not as important as I always believed?
Kind Regards,
Jochen
P.S. addendum concerning judges: if what I have read is true [and I find this REALLY hard to believe], there are some states where a judge doesn't even have to have a background in Law, so basically anyone can be elected to be a judge.
I read up quite a bit on this (and actually had a section in my original draft of the video script that I ended up editing out) - private prisons only represent 6% of the total prison system. While they are an "issue" they aren't as big of an issue as people think. And while the public prisons have farmed out quite a bit of their operating services to private companies (like food, for example), the same has also occurred in Germany.
As always: Great Video. I love how deep you dig into the world that sourround you every day.
Excellent video, a lot of material/ issues covered in a short time. You deserve much praise. Of course you are doing a comparison of your original vs your home country. I would have liked to see how the USA justice sytem compares in Europe in general, but that would need to be a documentary series. I do remember a case of a young man (a decade ago?) who was about to be extradited to the USA, but he asked/begged to finish his sentence in Germany, or maybe that was in the NL? In any case, he was a repeat offender and he knew what he was facing.
I think the major difficulty in our rather just justice system is what to do about the psycopathic criminals who have no sense of consciousness nor feeelings of remorse.
An another example of the POLITICAL sickness of U.S.
You are aware that some U.S. states focus more on rehabilitation than punishment, no? And those sentenced for minor offenses don’t need to be treated like cattle.
I've got to tell you: I'm a long time fan of the channel!
You did an amazing job on this video. Excellent length so you can cover a lot of information without stretching it out making it impossible for some to watch it in one go.
Great visualisation, comparisons, research. You are so dedicated to providing high quality content and you and your husband's background shines it's light on the video. You have a great way to do good research and present facts.
I hope you are doing well with the baby and your 2 loved ones!
Thank you so much!
This video needs to go viral - especially in the land of the free
In Germany it's unlawful to discriminate ex-prisoners.
Whereas preventive measures, like the prohibition to approach a person (former victim..), or pick up a specified single profession or trade, are not considered discrimination.
So like a teacher sentenced for abusing children may be banned from becoming teacher, or any profession or activity that puts him in responsibility for children, after the sentence. This is normally appended to the sentence by the court and can be questioned after the end of the sentence.
Once you've done your sentence, you're technically free.
That's also according to the understanding of human rights in Germany (that should not change due to political reasons).
You cannot be forced to walk around your community and tell the people which crime you committed in Germany, like shown in "The Big Lebowski".
(I'm not sure if this is really administered in USA but if it's against the dignity of man which is protected by the German constitution as a property that can never, under no circumstances, be denied to a human.)
I think it’s worth looking into the concept of proportionality which is at the heart of German and European reasoning in a lot of fields and unheard of in the United States. It has implications for sentencing, for the cost of traffic violations, for matters of state privacy violations, abortion, social care, really everything that defines how a society differentiates between its strongest and weakest citizens. If a government acts proportionally, all of a sudden the weak aren’t left behind, the mentally unstable aren’t imprisoned but treated, and life quality improves significantly.
In the most recent attempt to resolve data exchange between the EU and US, for the very first time proportionality language was included. Now with the Patriot Act still in place, it’s unlikely this agreement won’t be struck down by the European Court of Justice, but it’s a step in the right direction, and it might actually start to change views in the US, although I honestly doubt it. But I for one am glad to live in a society where proportional responses aren’t limited to military action.
Proportionality is such an important concept! You can apply it to your own personal life too. Learning about proportionality at University was really eye-opening for me, and not just in relation to my legal studies, but as a philosophical concept as well.
The lesson on proportionality in my compulsory law class (I didn’t study law but economics) was one of the key topics that really stuck with me!
Excellent video, Ashton. I think this should be eye-opening to US citizens and law makers alike. I must add one thing though, which I consider very important: The US prison system is for profit making. Companies are earning money with it. That is a fundamental flaw. Obviously those companies are interested in having more inmates than less, hence the enormous number of people inside those walls.
Not all US prisons are for profit. You have Davidson County Jail (this is a county jail in Tennessee), there's Broward County Jail in Florida, there's Miami-Dade County Jail, etc.
I looked up how many jails are privately owned and only 8% of jails are privately owned in the US.
@@jessicaely2521 Well, we can debate if that is a lot or not. The fact that is exists at all shows the wrong path the system goes.
@Tom Ruthemann 92% of US jails are non-profit. No that isn't a lot. If you want numbers.......There's 1,677 state non-profit (they don't make $$$$) state prisons in the US, 122 non-profit Federal prisons (they dont make money), and 158 FOR profit prisons (they make money). You add state and federal prisons together and you'll have 1,921 non-profit prisons. I'm no math wizard here, but I think 1,921 non-profit prisons is more than 158 for profit prisons..
@Tom Ruthemann if you want prisoner numbers there's 2,300,000 prisoners in the US (this is both for profit and non-profit). 8% of 2,300,000 is 184,000. Again I think 2,116,000 is more than 184,000, so there are more prisoner's in non-profit prisons. A little reasearch before commenting would have helped you. All this information only took me 10 minutes to find out.
I worked with at-risk youth in the US and they weren't jailed. They werent murderes but truancy (skipping school), drugs, fighting, etc. The kids had a choice of jail or our program for 30 days. We went out canoeing on the Intercoastal in Florida, some rivers in Central Florida, or the Everglades. Everglades was only during the winter. It's to hot and there's to many mosquitoes in the Everglades during summer. 99% of our kids were able to turn their life around. I still believe that if you give kids a chance to turn their life around most will.
Another well made and very informative video. Keep on doing this ☺️ Btw. where do you get the video clips from? Regards. Kasi &Robin
I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the amount of research you put into this is amazing, not to mention how interesting, understandable and how balanced your presentation of the data is... Yeah, I should copy this comment so that I can just paste it next time ;) hehe - Amazing :)
Thank you so much! Really glad you enjoyed it!
@@TypeAshton You truly deserve it, thank you to you in particular, but also your husband who I suspect contributes in many ways for these wonderful videos.
Being somehow hostile to your citizens (not only the incarcerated) it is hard to become a more peaceful society in the long run.
who wants peace? peace doesn't sell weapons.
Again, a great video. At the end, it boils down to the same principal that education is key for a modern society to function and good education is not a given in the US, either inside or outside a prison.
Another interesting and well researched video :)
I suspect the quality of life in a country and how people are treated, especially lower classes has a big impact on crime rate, after all, you're more likely to turn to crime in hard times than not.
I think this is where the real problem is in the US, the system doesn't treat lower and middle classes that well, there is a weak social system and safety net and the way the prison system is in the US is almost barbaric by other modern countries, which likely has the impact of someone returning to crime because of having less opportunities once they've paid their dues.
What we see in other modern countries when it comes to the prison system wouldn't work in the US until they fix a lot of the core issues in society which leads to a lot of crimes and I don't think that is going to be easy to fix in the US, even thought it should be because the blueprint is already there in more or less every other modern country, they've figured it out, why hasn't the US? I suspect capitalism is a big factor or the degree of how capitalism is king in the US compared to other modern countries that are more like social democracies, basically capitalism but with big governments and a lot of social protections for it's citizens and it's likely many of these factors can play into whether you turn to crime or not.
this was super interesting! i wish it was longer and covered even more things!
puh hard to watch
What a great Video Ashton! 👏👏Dostojewski would be proud of you!
haven't watched the whole video yet but I already want to share my thoughts from the top of my head:
From my subjective perception and outside view, I see the following root issues which lead to the huge amount of incarcerated people:
- the very unfair labor law, heavily favouring the employers. This makes employers more prone to health issues, many of them left untreated from the fear of losing your job, getting dragged into deep debt and ending up homeless. Which leads to my next point.
- The very lacking social security system. You loose your job or get very ill, your are more or less immediately bankrupt, homeless or both
- getting homeless often means (further) declining health and/or getting drug addicted, where the drug addiction starts in many cases as legitimate medication
- judges getting elected. IMO this is a bad idea. When the judges have to worry about reelection then they possibly don't focus on *fair* judgements
- prisons being run by private profit oriented companies. The rumor I heard has it that some contracts with the state contain a clause that guarantees a minimum rate of occupation or something similar. No wonder that people get behind bars for bagatelles.
- reoffending: If you stuff an insane amount of prisoners in a prison which was never designed to hold anything near the actual amount of people. I saw a video about this topic: The prisoners often have no privacy, nothing to do there, very small prison cells amongst others. Frankly said they are treated like animals. If you treat someone like an animal don't expect him to behave like a human being. Some high ranking US state officials visited a German prison to see what the can do different to improve the situation at home. One of them said something like "this could be a nice dorm room" while taking a look at a German prison cell is mindboggling!
So, now I carry on watching, maybe there are some other points I might add later
There is an area of crime, where there is a consensus in both countries, that sentences just can't be tough enough: sexual offences, especially when children are victims of such crimes.
The public pressure has led to an increase in minimum and maximum lawful sentences, as well as broadened the scope of activities, which are considered sexual offences, over the last two decades in Germany. I believe, we all can empathise with this. I, at least, do.
But is my gut feeling backed up by data? Not so much.
In a recent study, it was found that 97% of convicted sex offenders (in Germany, where "conviction" does not necessarily mean doing actual prison time) never commit a sex-related crime again. So, the idea of "once a sex offender, always a sex offender" is obviously very far from reality.
Still, for a whopping 50%, their imprisonment, and hence the disruption of their normal life and the social stigma that comes with it, is the start of a "criminal career", with them being convicted again at some point, mostly for property crimes. Whilst I totally feel the same urge to apply retributive justice to these offenders as most people, it seems paramount to me that politicians should not so easily give in to popular pressure, but should definitely rather listen to experts. Populism is a poison to society.
No society can be healthy if children are not emotionally, psychologically and physically healthy. They are our future adults and parents.
One of the mayor problem behind this all is a fundamental violence and death addiction of the societys mindset. The US justice and detention system is also trapped in this mindset.
The U.S. must understand that in civil society, violence is not the answer to violence and crime.
Extremely long prison sentences, poor incarceration conditions and the death penalty are a form of violence. People released into society by this system mostly are broken, unable to live, or are more criminal and hateful than before.
In some more religious regions, an Old Testament understanding of punishment prevails.
Your videos have tv-documentary quality. I think you can take this one step further and try to collaborate with company making documentaries intended for broadcast.
in this case you should think about a cooperation with NALF?
@@michaelkloters3454 Just because he did a (pretty good) documentation of his life doesn't qualify him for documentations in general.
But generating such high qualitiy videos in the living room, where other channels have a whole team behind them, is pretty impressive. Imagine her having the ressources of a channel like @physicsgirl....
Also keep i mind she has to change the intro to the channel pretty soon to fit the fourth member into the clip.
Great video and research. Is it true that some prisons in the US are commercial enterprises? And if that's true, could that also be a reason why so many people are imprisoned in the US?
Some prisons are private, but its only 6%.
So many people are imprisoned because a lot of innocent people are imprisoned. a friend of mine was thrown in jail for attempted homicide because his neighbor said that my friend was going going to kill him (this wasn't true). My friend was arrested and couldn't make bail so he stayed in jail until his court hearing which was 3 months later. He had a trial and the jury couldn't find proof of my friend trying to kill his neighbor.
Some 18 year olds are thrown into jail because they had sex with their 16 or 17 year old girlfriend or boyfriend. My friend went to jail because she had sex with a boy that was 1 day shy of turning 18 (my friend was 18 and she was charged as an adult). Before DNA people were jailed for murder or rape who really didn't murder or rape someone. Prime example was the Snaggletooth killer. The only evidence they had was his tooth looked like the murderers. 10 years later DNA was invented and his DNA didn't match the murders DNA. Non-white people tend to be innocent but still thrown in jail. A black man in my state visited his mother's grave and he tracked the gravesite grass into the car. Police pulled him over for "speeding" (he really wasn't. His only crime was being black). Police said the graveyard site grass was marijuana. The black man couldn't make bail so he sat in jail until his court date. Police have been known to plant drugs into people's homes or cars.
That is a myth!!!!
Also a Big Difference is, in America are many People living on the Streets because there is no Social System.
If you dont work in Germany, you get atleast an Apartment, Water, Warmth (Gas), and 75% from the 500€ Basic Money per Month for free. And maybe even Coupons for Food. Of Course whole Interior like Fridge, Bed, Cooking Plate, Waching Machine, and Furniture and so on for free the first time you move out from your parents.
So in 2021 the number of people in US prisons in solitary confinement alone (41k - 48k), was about similar to the overall number of people in German prisons (44,588 on March 31st 2021).
That is...... sad...
It's also that in the USA most prisons (the State prisons, mainly) are run like companies (what they basically are) and in order to make profit they have to maintain a certain incarceration rate. They are nothing without inmates. It's all about profit and keeping the cost of running them as low as possible. Huge difference to most prisons here or in Scandinavia, where the government is responsible and also can be hold accountable for the way the prisons are run and the inmates are treated. Scandinavia actually takes it to totally different levels when it comes to their prison system - and the numbers (recidivism, unemployment after release, duration of sentences and prison time) speak volumes! The U.S. system is total and utter crap, sorry for speaking out so bluntly.
This is far from the truth. 92% of US jails don't make a profit at all. State run jails make up 81% of jails and they don't make money. 11% of US jails are Federal run and they dont make a profit. Only 8% of jails in the US make a profit.
To put this into numbers there's about 1,500 State prisons (again this is non-profit), there's 129 Federal prisons (again this is non-profit), and 158 private prisons (again this is for profit).
We treat them as human beings, which they are despite the things they did.
"We treat them as human beings who made a mistake" is pretty key. Here in the USA, we treat them like a separate class of society that deserves the worst.
@@LyricsQuest So if someone commits a brutal crime against a minor, then they made a mistake.... ok... make sense....
In the US, it’s my understanding that children aging out of the foster system get less support than the German children get leaving prison…
imprisoned criminals are still humans who deserve to be treated with respect. Dignity is a fundmental right of every person.
Restricting prisoners of their rights after their release encourages them to become criminal again. What else are they supposed to do? Apart from that, finding a job after serving time in prison is probably pretty hard... I know that my comment is exaggerated, but you get the point.
Its a very real issue. We continue to punish them even after they have completed their sentence. And although there some cases where I think it is appropriate to ask if you have a felony record as a prerequisite for a job application, it is also very heartbreaking to think about the number of men and women who serve decades in prison and then are expected to re-enter a society and job market that is now totally foreign to them with no assistance.
I think that at least some cause of high incarcination rate in US is in the fact that US is the most socially unequal high income country in the world with very much segregation of people on in which neighbourhood they live (which maybe doesn't exist anywhere in Europe) and that there are so loose gun laws in US in comparison of all other countries in the world (much more gun violence compared to all other countries in the world except those which are currently at war).
Especially Europe. It'd seem like the USA has typical "gun laws" for a third world country.
One is focused on punishment the other on rehabilitation.
Tahnks for your very informative videos. Very interesting to see these comparisions to US and get some facts. We tend to complain too much within our society and about our systems (I think).
Another outstanding, well researched and presented video. While not everything is roses and sunshine in Germany's prison system, it is defenitely way above the US system. From my opinion, a good thing. More humane, fair, and revolving around rehabilitation rather than punishment.
Just ask yourself the question: which victim is going to wake up five years after a crime every morning, remember there's a prisoner in prison for their crime against them, and STILL go: "Yeah, great, that bastard is still suffering, I'm so glad he isn't seeing a strip of sunlight. I just wish they'd throw him into solitary confinement for the rest of his life."
I have my doubts that there are many, if any.
Even should that be the case, what does that tell you about the mindset of the victim?
Is that a sane, socially safe person you'd like to be around; or would you also like an ocean between you and them? From my perspective, the gap between the Moon and Earth would probably be a good safety measure. Yes, I am talking about the vindictive victim here.
Yes, I know, that was an extreme case. I have found that if you are on a spectrum of anything, going to the extreme ends of a spectrum in a thought experiment shows you quite well if that spectrum is well or badly adjusted. My two cents on the subject.
You are aware that the US system deserves less flak than it receives, no? People who commit minor offenses are more likely to be sent to facilities similar to those in Canada and Europe for people convicted of similar crimes. It’s just that the American continent as a whole has received flak for over 500 years to promote Spanish and European colonialism.
@aycc-nbh7289
The flak the US prison system receives isn't only deserving, but absolutely necessary. No other country on this planet has this percentage of its citizens incarcerated than the USA, the country that calls itsself the land of the free. The kind of prison sentences that are doled out regularly in the US prison system won't fly in most other western countries. That prisons are often ridiculously overcrowded just adds to the problem of violence in the prison complexes. There are more than enough cases where innocents were thrown into that meat grinder, only to find out that despite being innocent they not only lost several years of their lives, they also became jaded or traumatized by the experience. PTSD is even a relatively mild form of trauma suffered by any inmates, innocent or not.
That ex-convicts have lost their right to vote for life is another insane aspect that makes the US judicial system horribly dialed into punishment, not rehabilitation.
@@RustyDust101 Please read my comment again. Metrics in Canada and European countries in general, not just here, may sometimes be kept underinflated due to a prestige that is outdated and frankly racist. Plus, by sheer numbers, China has more prisoners than the U.S. if we include the people detained in the Uighuristan internment camps.
Thing is, you cant roll out a german prison system in the US, because life in prison would be better than life outside :D healthcare.. minimum wage... it is like paradise for millions of americans :D
In my volunteer work I met a man who said he wanted to find a way to go back to prison on a light sentence (6 months) as of October, because he couldn't afford heating his place. He told me he was not the only one in prison doing that; he had done this a few times after he learned about this, in prison.
Another great vid 👍
Thank you!
I am german, and what I can tell you is the idea that when you treat priosoners like wilde animals, you will get wild animals after release. There are much less priosners in germany compared to the US, because it is not so easy to buy firearms. In germany, you won't be able to buy an AR-15 (automatic weapon), and by law, gun posession is restricted to hunters and people shooting in rifle organizations.
Regarding juveniles: There is also a different court system for them (Jugendgerichtsbarkeit). The young get specially trained judges in special courts.
This is the same in the US. Every state has its own juvenile court system. The judges are also trained specifically for juveniles. A juvenile judge couldn't work in a adult court without specific training. Juvenile detention centers aren't like adult prisons. Kids still get an education. It isn't the best, but they do get educated. I worked with troubled kids and have been in juvenile courts. I have also been in adult court system. There's a gigantic difference. Juvenile judges tend to be nicer. They are more into rehabilitating the child. A lot of times kids get a choice of going into an outdoor juvenile program or jail. I worked at a outdoor juvenile program. We canoed for 30 days on the Intercoastal (Florida), Rivers in Central Florida, or the Everglades.
I think your opinion as an american would have been really helpful in this series. It would give more context IMO.
Also afaik, breaking out of prison itself is not punishable in germany, as long as you dont break any other law. I guess this is different in the US as well?
It is a bit tough for me to give personal context since I haven't personally come face to face with the prison system or had someone in my immediate family affected by it. The only real connection is that I grew up not too far from a women's medium security prison. Funny enough, it came up during my research for this video becuase there was an article written about how they had to shut part of it down due to a horrid Racoon infestation that had been going on for YEARS (with the inmates complaining) but nothing was being done. One of the racoons actually fell through a ceiling, landed in a prioner's cell and bit the woman - and then they finally did something about it.
In U.S.A. escaping out of prison is a crime. and not only you get more years in prison! But also, automatic Max-Security! regardless of Security levels!
This in return Guarantees the Inmate to become a hardened criminal and easily will join a prison gang in that hell hole. Dooming the inmate to be hyper violent and institutionalized. Which means bound to reoffend if they ever get out...
If I ran a Jail and prison system. I would add more time to their sentence for escaping! But Not years. Only 1-2 months. (Only more time if other crimes are committed.) And raise one Security level against the inmate till Close Security is reached. (as in from lower security. to medium security. Does it again? then it's close security. (In between medium and Maximum security. Better than Maximum, but worse than Medium. And I'm not talking about SUPERMAX.) Additional escape attempts would keep that inmate in close security. With more time. (Now if the Inmate is max Security? he will stay in that level for sure.)
We need our prisons to be punishing enough. But we need a stronger level of Rehabilitation.
I always thought of it like this: if harsh punishment worked as a deterrent, those hellish prisons in 3rd world countries should be empty.
Ashton, You should seek out the series “Norden” which shares the differences between Police, prisons and religion between the USA and the Nordic countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. It is an eye opener
This is not the first of your videos that I've watched and I must tell you that I always learn a lot of things not only about the US but also about Germany (where I live). Your painstaking research and extremely well-structured presentation leave me in awe. I greatly admire your work, it's truly of a professional standard. All the best to you in the future!
Thank yo so much. I'm really glad you liked it!
Well, she's got a PhD for a reason I guess. I'm just a measly Dipl.-Ing. but my wife has a PhD in biology. And I see many similarities in how both Ashton and my wife go about their business.
I’m very pleased to see you make this episode.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!
@@TypeAshton As ever, the research is clear, the structured delivery is considered and effective, and the tone is conciliatory and I see it as attempting to build knowledge and informed debate in the wider world. In all of public policy the values and beliefs we have about ourselves, and our fellow human, come through. If there is one linking theme, or critical factor across this series of videos and many of the other important issues you cover, it's inequality.
The WHO's social determinants of health provide a useful framework to understand the key areas of impactful inequality that lead to measurable harm:
Income and social protection
Education
Unemployment and job insecurity
Working life conditions
Food insecurity
Housing, basic amenities and the environment
Early childhood development
Social inclusion and non-discrimination
Structural conflict
Access to affordable health services of decent quality.
These are the underpinning causes of our success or failure, having them in abundance leads to success, and wherever there is substantial lack one finds crime, ill health and early death, poverty & debt. Politics that accepts and incorporates these facts is not only compassionate, it's fundamentally evidence based and more effective. I will continue to enjoy and value your continued exploration of how the SDH play out over two very different nations.
The German perspective is incredibly refreshing and morally robust, as well as evidence based; prison is either rehabilitative or punitive, decisions about welfare, facilities and conditions all stem from this principle. Punitive, lengthy sentences expose inmates to trauma, with mental health impacts (and suicides). Even for those who survive the mental trauma, the punitive system provides a specific context and set of daily challenges to the human brain. We are all, always, learning and adapting, and this adaption is either shaped toward our betterment, to build confidence and skills.. or it's a chance to learn how to make a shank, or hide drugs in your body, or how to navigate gang culture; how many juvenile prisoners enter the system as 'kids who made a bad choice' and leave as practiced and committed gang members who have been supported in prison by the very culture society seeks to challenge. It is so very self-defeating. In the UK our system is sadly much closer to the US system than the german, in terms of funding and opportunity. I for one, hope we can do better.
Hey Ashton, just one question: crime has declined in the last 30 years, in both, the US and Germany. But the chart at 3:46 shows "combined state incarceration rate by crime type", with showing every graph going up. You focus on drug related crime. But shouldn't there be at least one or two graphs be going down, when crime has declined? I guess declining graphs are just left out in this chart, but I do see all major crime types there, so I don't really miss a specific crime type... Maybe I have to continue to watch, which I'll do.
First! Looking forward to another well researched video!
Yay! I hope you enjoy it. ♥️
Great Video and very interesting! :)