Using an AURO-3D Layout for Dolby Atmos!???
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2021
- Auro-3D, DTS-X, Atmos (One-for-All) Setup Guide (PDF): bit.ly/Auro3DGuide
Daily HiFi Podcast with Wilfried Van Baelen (Part 1): • Auro-3D with Wilfried ...
The PDF above gives you guidelines for a speaker layout that will work for Auro-3D, DTS-X, and Dolby Atmos. To me, this is the best immersive speaker layout for looks, ease of wiring, and compatibility.
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Very good content Joe. These real world experiments are difficult to do, but it's really valuable to viewers.
I do it for appreciative folks like you!
I've been experimenting with this as well, and even got a Auro 3D demo disc. I've been finding that if I switch to Auro upmixing on Atmos content as TechnoDad recommended the audio seems degraded. Likely due to PCM stream. I will say bass seems better on 5.1 and 7.1 content with Auro uprising over Surround or Neural.
In what way is the sound degraded from your experience?
@@Macroproxy
The Auro Upmixer is not really great compared to Neural:X tbh...it boosts bass and makes everything sound a bit louder and fuller, but you don't get the same precision you get with Neural:X
@@joentell Hard to say. Going back and forth, Auro sounded a bit like I was sitting inside a tin can if that makes sense. This was only in a limited sample, and I may have not hashed it out right.
I have no expertise, but I was thinking maybe the issue was the PCM source on that disc vs the Dolby source. I believe this was on the Scott Pilgrim 4k Bluray.
Thanks for the experiment Joe!
I just got a monolith HTP-1 being set up for 9.4.6 in my theatre 🎭 room and was debating how I was going to set up my height channels and this pretty much settled it for me. The six prime elevations will go in the top corners of the walls instead of the ceiling.
This demo was very informative and helpful Thanks Joe!
I'm using this layout for the past 3 years.It's very impressive for all 3d formats.
Okay so who is gonna uncut these holes in my ceiling? 😂
Been using the Auro 3d layout plus rears (for DTS) for many years now.
Definitely a difference, a good one, sight and sound. Thanks for extra effort.
Dude the sounds gave me goosebumps. It really felt it was above n behind my head.
I work at a home theater installer/designer and your findings are consistent with ours: Prime Elevations on the front and back walls make GREAT Atmos speakers if for whatever reason the ceiling won’t work. Most home ceilings aren’t tall enough to get enough sound dispersion from traditional overhead speakers
Oh wow! Good to hear I'm not alone.
What is the height, that is too low? I have been thinking to get Atmos ceiling speakers for a while, but pushed it to later, mainly because of the hard installation... This would be much easier. If I remember correctly, the ceiling height is 2m70cm...
What would you say is considered tall enough to take advantage of using corking speakers? 10ft, 12ft
I remember having a black and white 13" tv with 5 channels as a kid with maybe a 2" mono speaker so it all sounds amazing to me.
C'est la première vidéo que je regarde qui évoque l'intérêt du positionnement des haut-parleurs "hauteurs" pour un système audio ATMOS ou AURO-3D. Merci pour ce travail. Il y aurait également un autre test a faire qui consiste d'utiliser des haut-parleurs parfaitement identiques sur toutes les voies. Cela permettrait d'avoir la même courbe de réponse en fréquences sur toutes les voies et surtout d'avoir une seule et unique fréquence de coupure des haut-parleurs principaux vers la voie LFE, plus simple à gérer pour le correcteur acoustique de pièce.
My man Joe looking fit and trim. Keep up the great work
Top configuration! Top configuration! Top configuration! Top configuration! DTS neural x! Real 3D sound across all CZcams content! The only way...
I read somewhere that ceiling for Atmos was only to prevent patent infringement. Dolby know side is better, their movie theatres are side mount AFAIK.
I've heard that as well.
Great job bro!
I only have front highs but this is how mine is set up. On Denon and Marantz you can configure your layout this way as well. It really makes my front soundstage massive as well.
Awesome content dude.
I love that thumbnail, probably your best yet.
Wife's idea of course
+1 killer
you save people's time a lot. gooooooooooood job.
Thank you for the video, and not just stating opinions but backing it up with some science, facts, and actual testing. I might have to pick up a Binaural Mic at some point so I can start producing content in this domain as well.
Good demonstration thanks for posting! But here's something to think about... when one hears sound coming from above it's usually off in the distance first therefore wouldn't it be best to have height speakers as opposed to ceiling speakers ?
Interesting thought.
Good info Joe. How does this auro 3d compare to atmos setup for playing atmos content so far? For example if you have a quiet place movie to try as it have good atmos content.
You mentioned Dr. Amar Bose in your video.....respect!
I think the circle sounds bigger because you have the speakers further apart with the second setup. Have you tried the second location but instead of on the wall placing them on the ceiling for comparison?
Awesome video, I like your willingness to try out things like this an give an honest opinion. Listening through my dragonfly an audio technica m50x has made me see I'm missing loads of bass. Is listening to binaural recording accurate?
The M50X has a bit more bass than neutral (M40X) and my bass is boosted a bit to follow the NAD target curve which is similar to the Harman target. I've compared my binaural mics to my calibrated mic and they are very flat from 20hz to 20khz. Any deviations from flat, I've accounted for with parametric EQ in post.
When the bass hits on the 2nd Atmos demo, it's almost scary. It shakes the seats.
this makes alot of sense, I have 4 height speakers on a 10ft ceiling, I find it very hard to localize
I congratulate you for the tests you have done, and with the due respect you deserve, I would like to give me my comments about what I heard in the binaural recording of your tests, at least so on the first test I did not hear that it was so different the change, (obviously often by issues of psychoacustic perspective, almost always any change we associate it more to an improvement, instead of a non-improvement) the point that is the first or main mistake of the vast majority of people, is to make a Try just listening to Dolby Atmos' top speakers turning off the bottom, the error is that people always want to listen to "loudspeakers channels", because Dolby Atmos does not work like this, Dolby Atmos or mix of objects in The space is generating a matrix with horizontal and vertical sounds, and generating the coordinates with virtualization of that position in space, depending on or depending on your room or enclosure, because in that last Playback path, where the processor receives the metadata from those virtual coordinates, the processor will have to calculate in real time that coupling of the virtual coordinates to the parameters of your room, logically, is obvious that when placing the speakers in High with an angle of 30 degrees, Dolby Atmos or the immersive audio with objects in space, It can continue working to some extent, I understand if I'm not wrong, that Dolby contemplated that Layout of speakers, since the design of Dolby Atmos contemplates An adaptability to a large range of different scenarios in all the houses or rooms of the users, then it will depend on how ideal your room is and the installation of the complete system with the positioning of the speakers, on the other hand the try to compatibility Dolby Atmos with Auro 3D, I think that Auro 3D only came to confuse people a little more, Dolby apart from having a large group of marketing, has an excellent group of engineers who designed and They adapted the product to the diversity of users room applications, I do not say that Auro 3D is bad, or that sounds bad, it must be very good, but I do not believe or I do not consider it the panacea. Another important thing to mention, is that Dolby Atmos will sound well depending on the quality of the work done in the studio and the installation of your setup and the conditioning of your room, the same applies to Auro 3D.
I hear what you're saying, but the helicopter demo only uses the height speakers in Atmos. It does not use ear-level speakers, which I figured would give it the best possible advantage over Auro3D.
You might also be interested in this binaural demo I did comparing Auro to Atmos using native Atmos content.
Best way is by Dolby Atmos standard layout which is identical to DTSx. Way to mitigate is having 8 inch 3 way in ceiling with directional Tweeter 🤘can aim Soundstage precisely at the focus point I need👌👍
Dolby Atmos and DTS:X actually have completely different layouts in how they view height speakers. DTS:X and Auro have the same view for their height speakers.
Are you guys in the U.S.A using the upmixer like neural:x? They are often better than atmos.
Here in Germany it is very common under the home cinema enthusiasts.
.. Oh... Man!! This is what im looking for..... Since my room cant cut whole on the ceiling,height speaker placement way to go for me!
# was thingking using ceiling speaker and boxup hang on top of the ceiling lol !.... That makes more work tto do... #
... Planing to use 6 speaker setup forn aura-3D 😊..... Center ceiling listening poilsition 2 speaker hang at the side ..
My system now 7.2.6
I have 5.1.2 pioneer av reciever
And im wondering should i go with overhead speakers set as top middle ot top front
Or just front heights?
Which is better?
And is the tallness of sound coming from front heights more immsersive than top middle ?
Once you play it back when you get your oral 3-D it's really gotta be a mind blower then
Darnit Joe! You had me looking at my angles and Im wayyyyy off. Im only 15* higher than ear level for my height channels and no way I can change it.
Sorry! 🙏 😉
Can you reveal which setups corresponded to A and B in the blind test video?
Yes...I forgot...A is the Dolby Atmos layout, B is the Auro layout. I mentioned it on the @dailyhifi podcast yesterday and forgot to reveal it here.
I recently switched to 30 degree angle for my 4 Atmos speakers. I enjoy the sound more now.
I have a 7.2.6 Layout, having the Top Front and Top Rear close to 30° with the additional Top Middle makes for a nice effect, at least on proper Atmos Mixes. With the cheap fake Atmos Disney does though only the Top Middle will be active.
Nice this experiment was possible only because you had height speakers like most of us do if they were ceiling speakers ?
From my experience, Auro doesn't sound good on ceiling speakers, but Atmos sounds good using height speakers.
Thanks for the great video Joe! The hard part of this great hobby is doing the experimentation like you did... can be such a time suck, but the rewards can be so worth it. I've got a question for you and anyone else out there using the great Prime Elevations: When mounting these near that 3 wall intersection, is it just me or do these things sound really Boxy??? I've got to drop everything below 1khz like 5db just to get them to stop "being obvious" and blend in more like I had hoped they would. I've considered either stuffing fiberfill down the port or pulling the woofer to stuff the cabinet... yet another one of those experiments...
thanks again, I really appreciate the time you take to share all that you do!
You're welcome! For me, DIRAC takes care of any boominess. That region between 1khz-5khz is not I typically describe as boxy, but maybe a bit harsh. If anything, my issue would be they're a bit bright for my taste and being vertically above the tweeter (when they're upside-down and I'm below them) it's the worst place frequency response wise. If you've watched my review of the Prime Elevation, you would see the measurements I took.
This is interesting, I have them now at 30° right above my main LR speakers, because I can't place them on my ceiling
I did reviews for AVS Forum's and that's how i have my theater set up always last 5 years. Sop Techno is a Tad late to the party LOL ;)
Gotta love Joe’s dedication! Love how you used the laser pointer and app to calculate the 30 degree angle.
In our main HT, I have speakers in the ceiling using a classic Dolby Atmos 7.2.4 config. In the gaming room I have the speakers in a 5.2.4 Auro 3D config. I use to chalk it up as the gaming room being smaller but the Auro-3D config does have better imaging for Atmos effects.
imagine running full auro3D layout (7.1.6) with center height and VOG
Wow... interesting
@@georgepopescu1327 that’s what I’m running in my dedicated theater.
@@pgreen0001 denon or marantz?
@@georgepopescu1327 I have a Auro3d 10.1 or 7.1.5 setup in my media room with a Marantz SR7013 and the dedicated has a Marantz AV8805 with a 13.1 or 7.3.6 Auro3d setup. In both systems I don’t have back heights I have side surround heights as that was the requirement in the beginning. If you set your system up with back heights it would work for ATMOS and DTS-X but not Auro3d.
Just found this channel. This is very interesting stuff. I already have 30 degrees front atmos because it works best for mounting but I'm always disappointed by my rear atmos. This video makes me think its because they are right above my seats. Unfortunately that's because there's a wall right behind my seats. The real question is what to settings to use on the receiver. My Denon has multiple atmos speaker positions and it's unclear what the difference really is and if audyssy corrects them anyway.
Hello mate I just red your post I was at the same boat like you .. I am at Auro 3D layout now and it’s really good unfortunately my sit is against the wall maybe 70 cm from mlp I took I it further away in front today BUT I got the alteco c1 which are not atmos certified but it gives me a good atmos experience at 30 degrees better than 5.1.2 I got overhead .cheers
The atmos standard is definitely the best way to go.
I’m probably gonna use Auro3d speaker placement, even though my receiver doesn’t do Auro3d it’s an overall better placement for me and easier to do. I’m wondering where to place my side surrounds, is it 90-110 degrees? And at what height, ear level or higher?
I linked to the pdf
What app are you using for calculating the degrees
Great video! But GAHHhhh!!! After spending insane time getting a 5.2.4 setup, I'm realizing my room doesn't have walls that work well for height speakers. Will aura 3D work at all with ceiling speakers or am I SOL?
I know how you feel. I spent a ton of time placing my ceiling speakers. Will it work for you? Depends on youe listening position in relation to the room.
Joe N Tell, isn't it Wilfried's recommendation that in a 13.1 set up that the rear height speakers are above the side surround and not above the back surrounds? Or are they better up above the back surrounds on the rear wall ?
This is correct.
Trying to set up my Auro here. Bumped into wife factor....
Did you try small (very small) speakers like Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 as front/rear hight? Would they be producing sufficient sound and do the job? The room (living room) is not large, I am not listening at high volumes, but sound quality is important too. Need an advice, man..
As long as the speakers can go down to 120hz, I would say you're fine
Joe, I don't have enough space behind my sofa to get a 30 degree listening angle for heights and my integra drx 8.4 only supports 7.1+4 for auro, is it alright if I just put my heights above the surrounds?
Do the best you can. We all have to compromise at times.
Did you change what the speakers were set as in the avr? I think the final layout is front height vs top front as I wonder if it makes a difference in how the content is processed for both. Honestly I couldn't tell as much of a difference as I could with the other video. I'd probably have to AB to tell. I think since both sound more the same in this video (maybe thanks to running dirac between?) it was hard to tell a difference.
The settings are a bit different on the NAD T778 compared to the Denon. I don't even see an option to set these as top front on the NAD. My goal was just to perhaps show the difference using Dolby Atmos content using an Auro speaker layout.
@@joentell ah, I wasn't sure. Just know that Dolby does have your configuration in the 7.1.6 spot of their 60 page pdf (page 41) if you ignored the top middles. They even suggest you could go lower at 20 degrees as their target for front height is 20-30 degrees. Although it is curious that they don't list a x.x.4 setup with front height although they do say you can go 30 degrees as valid for top front overhead. Also I would have placed speakers using trigonometry so it was interesting seeing you're approach. Ie it would be your height multipled by sin(60)/sin(30). Also appreciate the content. Always interesting to try something new!
I had the same question. Some AVR's and Processors will process height channels differently depending if they are ceiling or top of wall.
Although, you can realize where a plane crossing overhead-minus the doppler effect.
Very cool experiment Joe! I had a hunch that your first test was Atmos. I could clearly hear the helicopter move through the four ceiling positions with my IEM's. But I can also hear it move fine with the Auro layout. Honestly, hard for me to pick listening over headphones. But very cool to see that good performance can be had by not using ceiling positions!
Also, I might have missed it, but what were the angles for your prime elevations in your original Atmos layout?
Speakers placed 30 degrees up from listening position. Speakers pointed to the head of someone standing in the listening position.
@@joentell Interesting, so both tests were at 30 degrees, just ceiling vs. top wall?
@@adamjj85 one was with the speakers on the ceiling, other was the speaker mounted to the front wall
@@joentell Interesting so if they were both 30 degrees, I'm surprised you heard much of a difference. Conceptually, I would think the ceiling locations would sound better since they are closer to the listener and less prone to reflections.
@@adamjj85 I think your assumption is correct. The sound is more direct with the ceiling mounted speakers. But the funny thing is it does in a way sound less real. It's like a precise sound pointed at a section of your head where you can't localize it well. It works well for certain sounds, but less well for ambient sounds. Hard to explain. The Auro setup points the speakers in a place where you can localize it better, but the fact that they're further and more prone to room interactions makes them have less pinpoint accuracy, but better immersion. Does that make sense?
Unable on my poor set up to apreciate. Only got a matrix logitec shich cumputer speaker set up
Can't wait to have $$ to setup my Auro 3d system using those SVS Prime Elevations.
Did you place a VOG channel spkr? Apparently that’s another game changer
Hi Joe, didnt Wilfred recommend 30 degree with respect to the MLP, but with the person standing up? I have not checked out the math, but I have a feeling if sitting down, it could be 45 degrees?
30 degrees from listening position is the placement of the speaker itself, but the angle the speaker is pointing should be above the seated listening position.
Those Ohm Walsh speakers sound phenomenal but they are no doubt hurting the spatial aspect of your theater. If you imagine looking at your theater, top down, the Ohm Walshes are causing your "bubble" of sound to be presented in the shape of an "M" instead of an "O" if that makes sense. In every one of the demos you played, every time something pans across your front stage, even over headphones, you can hear it start out front right outside of your head, travel to in the middle of your head, and then back outside of the head front left.
Again, I'm not dogging on your incredible Ohms but I am saying that they're no doubt hurting the surround imaging in your room.
Auro 3 D awsom
Damn i got here 13 seconds after the video drop lol hope you doing well joe
If I'm alive, it's a good day ;-)
@@joentell it's always a good day to be alive especially when you are alive
Anyone tried running Auro-3d with in-ceiling speakers? On-wall heights are not an option for me but have 10-foot ceilings. If so what are your thoughts?
From my experience, Auro doesn't sound good on ceiling speakers, but Atmos sounds good using height speakers.
Out of all the videos on CZcams I haven't seen one person show how to hook up the voice of God
It depends on the AVR. On the Denon X4700H, it connects to the preamp out for sub 2 and you have to set the configuration to allow for the VOG channel.
It's interesting that you're getting content in the ear-level channels with that demo. It has been long-accepted that the Helicopter demo clip's objects were intentionally limited to the height zone. Makes me wonder if there are multiple versions of that demo clip the way there is of the 9.1.6 test clip. Was this from the demo disc itself or the downloadable version of the clip?
I used the one from here if you want to check it out for yourself: kodi.wiki/view/Samples
@@joentell Thanks! I'll check it out to see if it's different than the demo disc.
@@joentell Strange. When I play back the Helicopter clip from the Atmos demo disc in both TrueHD and DD+, as well as the clip you linked to, there is ZERO sound coming from my ear-level channels. And I mean zero. That's with a 7.1.4 top front/rear config on Denon 4500 (though people with front/rear height have said the same thing).
Odd that your AVR handles it differently. It shouldn't have any of that sound in the beds because of the zone constraint flag on the objects.
Interesting. Inspired by Joe’s video, I tried the Helicopter demo on two setups. Both the Marantz SR7013 and the Anthem AVM60 had no audio playing from the bed layer. Only Hight speakers had audio playing. Signal was Atmos.
This was using the 2016 Dolby Demo Blu-Ray.
@@CriPPleR_HD Even if you turn disable height speakers? Maybe NAD handles it differently or it honestly could be an issue with how PLEX was playing the file. Also, mine was a downloaded version of it so maybe that was it too.
Hello I have the Auro 3D layout .. what is the angle of your speaker not the height , the height from the mlp should be at 30 degrees ? I mean where does the tweeter aim? I think the official is at 80cm above your head what is yours ? Did you make an experiment about that I am looking forward to hear about.
Angle is set so the height speakers point at my ears while standing. That's the recommendation on the PDF I linked to.
@@joentell Thank you. Did you check at 20 -30 cm above ear lvl? also i am planing to put VOG and i think at denon marantz receivers works in atmos ... i tried to activate the 5th channel Top Surround at menu and mentions all 3 formats not only Auro 3D.
Hey Joe, where would u place the elevation speakers if my system only supports 2 height channels?
I would probably go for two front heights
@@joentell
u mean above the front left and right
@@stckyjoey1 correct
@@joentell
U the man. 🤜🍻
My sistem is 5.1.2 (small room) I tried first with two front heights above the front left and right for a few days, did a lot of testing.... then changed to Top Middle configuration (For 5.1.2 Dolby recommended speaker placement in Top Middle configuration between 65 and 100 degrees, above on ceiling.), above, slightly in forward position, like 80 degrees (above MLP, Twitter's angled towards main listen position) and... it was WAY BETTER for me...all sounds comming right above me... for me, in my room, Top Middle, was the way to go!
Where to get this Helicopter Demo?
instead of buying a receiver with auro 3d is there a software auro 3d I can download for windows....
Front and rear height channels are not ideal for Atmos because a lot of Atmos mixes assume you have top-channels and make no use of front and rear height speakers.
However if you name your front and rear heights as Top front and top rear for Atmos then switch them for Auro it will work okay (assuming your processor can hold multiple calibration profiles. Many do but there are some that dont)
Thats why I plan to compromise. 6 height channels with Front Heigh, Rear Height and Top-middle. The top middle speakers should play all the ceiling channel information and then the front and rear heights will play sound objects that pass near them. Then the same setup works for Auro3D and DTSX-Pro
Front Height / Rear Height is an officially supported Dolby Atmos Layout from the beginning!
Auro Technologies extended the Auro-3D specs later on to support also this Dolby Atmos layout. Before this, only Surround Heights were supported, no Rear Heights. With the One-for-all-setup you cover officially all three immersive 3D sound formats.
@@heimkinobinaptikum5229 its been a part of the spec because Dolby Engineers knew there were some enthusiast who already had front and rear "presence speakers" already installed and that they wouldnt want to change them. So they added those positions into their spec. This was stated by Dolby Engineers on Home Theater Geeks. Check out their video interview with Dolby engineers about Atmos. Its all there.
Hey joe what setting should my 4K blu rays player be on for upmixing 4K movies in auro 3d? Should I leave it on bitstream or pcm?
PCM
Can you direct me to the video where you guys talk about this?
@@nomorepictures7673 We did several videos with Wilfried on the Daily HiFi channel. They're multiple hours worth of content and it was just mentioned briefly. A viewer mentioned it and Wilfried agreed. It may not matter much either way. www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-auro-3d-thread-home-theater-version.1682498/page-276
Hmm in guide says 30 degrees but for Auro above the head not 30 degrees direct to you? Anyway it’s not like speakers are super directional they have fairly wide files of sound so not sure there is need to be super precise
I did 30 degrees above the front speakers with the speakers pointed at my ears while standing as recommended by the document I linked to.
So an Atmos and DTS:X only AVR can benefit from this height speaker layout?
yes, try it!
@@georgepopescu1327 I am now. I have all the speakers in position and tomorrow I start to wire them up. Now my speakers can stay put no matter what AVR I buy in the future. I will report back here with my findings in a few days time. Thank you Joe N Tell.....I mean Technodad!
@@UpgradingAsUsual any update?
Yes around in a circle with height Richard in ireland
In your opinion is worth do auro 3d in small room(very small)
I personally don't have enough experience myself (at all) to speak on this. I apologize.
I have 4 height channels placed as you did here and to be honest using DTS Upmixer to convert dolby atmos tracks don't really make a difference in terms of sound placement. The dragons, helicopters, bullets, spaceships and many other things do the same thing in terms of sound immersion. Dolby Atmos sounds good with heights too, despite the fact that they claim it's not recommanded.
I think it also helps to have speakers whith a large dispersion.
Also I found out that movies with native DTS X track sound better than atmos but not necesarely becouse the sound are better placed but becouse i feel the sound have more resolution, like you would compare a 320 kpbs music track to a FLAC file.
Interesting take. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I have only had it like this for a day or two so I still have to get a better idea of what the differences are. Overall, I don't mind it.
@@joentell talking with a sound calibrator I found out that for ceiling speakers your room should be tall, ideally 3m-3.5m, which most people don't have (at last 10 feet for USA measurements)
The Atmos Helicopter Demo uses the Ceiling Speakers only, no base layer at all, just FYI
Maybe the version I have is different. It could've also been how I had it setup since the NAD doesn't allow you to fully turn off the front main speakers. I'm wondering if it downmixes automatically to ear level when I turn off the heights. I didn't want to go around disconnecting speakers. The test was more about figuring out which added more to the immersiveness, the ear level speakers without height or just the heights.
@@joentell I bet this is it. Perhaps it is moving the heights effects to the bed layer when height channels are off.
@Antimonkat UPDATE: I just tested it again and when it Atmos with heights enabled, no sound comes from the ear level speakers. When I disable the heights in the NAD AVR, sound comes from the ear level speakers.
Well experimenting is free so why not:D
It just costs blood and sweat 😅
Holy close-up! lol 15:18 Just kidding you.
I did not move my speakers but yesterday I did tell my 7705 that they where "heights" and not "top" speakers so I can have the option of Atmos OR Auro 3D when watching movies. The jury is still out...I will let you know what I think of me telling the AV what kind of speakers they are (when i say they are top Auro 3D is not an option). My goal is if I set them as "heights" does Atmos sound better or worse, and if I am watching 7.1 or Atmos, does Auro 3D sound better than Atmos or Atmos Virtualiazion (7.1)
Lol...yeah...I just used my phone
For me atmos and sound from the ground is much better.
Without hearing the audio samples live with my own ears, it's to judge. But I disagree with the theory you relayed at the beginning about height speakers. By far the best "home theater audio" I've ever heard was in the mid-90s during the Dolby Prologic days. I went to a mall where they had what I believe to be a 6.1 setup: The standard front speakers w/ center channel, sub (near TV screen), and then THREE surround speakers BEHIND the viewing/listening position on the ceiling. One surround speaker was directly behind my head at probably a 30 degree angle pointing towards my head. The L/R surrounds were also at about 30 degree angles, also pointed towards the listening position. They played back a scene from Star Wars when Luke Skywalker and others were on these flying bikes in the forest running away from the bad guys. To this day I've never heard a better surround sound. I could hear and approximate where the sound was coming from. I was astounded by the fidelity. The only times I hear better than that is in the movie theaters or large concert halls.
I can't imagine it sounds great considering the room you're In. Dirac has its work cut out for it in that garage.
Why not? It's symmetrical, and I can place the speakers where they need to be. It sounds great to me. It could use a bit of absorption, but since it's 20x20, it's large enough where the late reflections are delayed enough for my brain to separate the direct and indirect sound. The floor is foam, the entire side where the garage door is foam, there's an area rug that is between the seats and the front stage, the screen is acoustic transparent and may absorb tiny bit compared to normal screen. No issues with my room.
i have my elevation on auro 3d from day one lol
Is it me or did you do 60° from the listener and not 30°?
It's 30° up from the ear-level speakers. They were at 90° and the meter went to 120°. That's a difference of 30°.
@@joentell Yeah I get it. The image shown was a bit confusing starting at 90°. I read it as horizontal was 0°. I'm interested in giving this a go down the line - I have 2 Atmos speakers in the ceiling. Reckon these could be used as a combiend VOG (e.g. with the same audio)?
@@rowanrobinson my video about AURO3D is going live. You may find it informative: czcams.com/video/vKX13MRWIBI/video.html
I'm sitting here listening to an audiophile video with one ear bud in from a $18 bluetooth headset
People mostly do atmos wrong.its all about angles aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand separation and people dont understand that.with 30dg you will give you a big hole in your buble.even 45 dg is not to good and its the bare minimum.55 is more your goal,still consider separation from other speakers.
sir that ferrari seat
It's a red Verona seat from Valencia Home Theater Seating. They're awesome!
Your garage is something of a reflected sound nightmare. I bet ALL of the effects would localize better with some acoustic dampening.
The proper position for height speakers is where Dolby want them. When you are watching a Dolby Atmos movie you cannot use Auro-3D setup. Sound engineers spend hundreds of hours to proper mix the sound for this specific layout. By changing the default layout to something else you cannot hear what they mix. You are changing delay times, panning effects and more. It is absolutely wrong to compare a object oriented mix (Dolby Atmos) with a speaker oriented setup (Auro3D). There is no way to listen correctly the master file.
They don't mix for a specific leyout as there are a lot of Dolby Atmos possible layouts accepted by the receiver. Actually your AVR is the one who decided phases and delays by analising the audio track and map it according to your speaker placement.
Like I said in the other comment, Dolby spec allows for 30° angle on height speakers...so within spec.
@@joentell yes, Atmos is more flexible with positioning that most people think.
@alex kollias
Front Height / Rear Height is an officially supported Dolby Atmos Layout from the beginning!
Auro Technologies extended the Auro-3D specs later on to support also this Dolby Atmos layout. Before this, only Surround Heights were supported, no Rear Heights. With the One-for-all-setup you cover officially all three immersive 3D sound formats.
@@heimkinobinaptikum5229 and if you add a center height and a VOG with a 13.1 setup, when you play Atmos tracks with no upmixer involved, the receiver will just use 11.1 and will ignore center height and VOG which will be used only for Auro and DTS X PRO. I belive it's the best compromise.
Well Joe, I have to be honest with you. The W the most part of that demonstration was very convincing. The 3-D configuration (I am sorry to say) was totally not convincing at all. It did not move me one tiny little bit. To be frank, I thought the mono price sound bar sounded better even if it is only virtual Atmos then the 3-D sound configuration dead.
So, in summary, the W Atmos placement was much more convincing much more. The so-called 3-D placement totally failed. Did not move me one tiny little bit.
Nah man. Audio Engineer here. I applaud your application of the scientific method to compare the different configurations. But you are overlooking the most important aspect of your room which is skewing your results. You need absorption.. I'm hearing a lot of the room not only in your demo, but also when you're speaking to the camera. (Also, i'm guessing you're not using a binaural microphone to record those demos, right? Cuz you kind of need a finely tuned pair of mics, precisely placed on a mount with a polar pattern designed to emulate the human head and hearing. I'm not hearing that in your demo..but that's just an observation, not a criticism--those mics are hella expensive!) I tried through a couple different studio monitors, headphones and large diameter full range speakers... you've got a problem with direct reflections. I know a lot of people think Atmos depends on reflections to sound good, but that is in a home environment, in a mostly untreated room.. those reflections are supposed to mimic overhead speakers. Your setup is more along the lines of a real theatre with real overheads. you don't depend on those reflections nearly as much as you might have before. Install some sound absorption panels on the walls opposite the direction of your speakers. that'll mitigate some of the 1st reflections. You can use a laser pointer like in this video; but a normal practice among studio designers and engineers is to use a mirror to locate those reflection points. just move the mirror along the wall and as soon as you see the opposing speaker, you've located the reflection point and the place you need absorption. That'll greatly reduce secondary and tertiary reflections of the room. Also it seems that you're in a garage? So that garage door is going to be a nightmare! But you can isolate it with some creative solutions like movable baffles or even a heavy sound absorption (theatre) curtain. Your flooring might be a challenge if it's concrete, but a cost effective solution would be to just drop a few rugs at some strategic locations with exposed concrete or laminate..Are you familiar with RT60 measurements? (also known as Reverb Time) You can do them just as effectively from an app on your phone and a handclap, as I can from a calibrated mic and room acoustic software. I think you can benefit from the data on an RT60 measurement of that room.. Interpreting those results are a bit more challenging but it can aid in isolating problems in the Acoustics of the room. It's basically the practice of EQ'ing your room to filter problem frequencies and standing waves. Frankly, any decisions you make or comparisons of different audio processing should be done after you treat that room a bit first..otherwise you're not hearing an accurate representation of the different audio processing formats. DTS is my personal favorite in the "format wars"...but in an untreated room, it often sounds like crap. Dolby sounds fine in untreated rooms and good in treated rooms.. I think that's why they've become the most popular... but they'll be doesn't have a thing on DTS in a properly treated room. (when I was a teenager I used to be a projectionist in a movie theater.. that's what got me started on the whole audio journey decades ago!) Oh and don't go out and buy absorption panels! it's easy and much more fun to make them yourself.. you can probably make a whole video on that process actually ;)
by the way I've been a subscriber and occasional viewer of your vids for a while now. It's awesome to see your evolution in the world of audio. I was impressed that you've actually got a full-on theater setup now.. maybe you've have had it for a while now..just goes to show how "occasional" of a viewer I am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You definitely evolved from your early videos and reviews and have shown more than an interest in this field.
sorry for the length of my comment btw 🙄
All good. I'll try to read all of it in a bit. It's quite a bit. I think you also should take into account that my mic is pointed down towards me and my leather seats. I'm pretty sure there's more reflections there and the mic is capturing it since it's coming from the front.
@@nickloss2377 can you please elaborate a bit about your prefference for DTS? I also find DTS X native movies to have somehow more resolution compared to Atmos which might sound strange but this is what I hear.
I really don't understand what means "sound better like this". If you like to listen Dolby Atmos mixes with Auro3D setup go. But it's totally wrong. I already explained why. If you want to listen it correctly, there is only one way, the Dolby way.
To me, DTS-X Neural-X for music sounds better in this configuration. It doesn't matter to me what you do with your system, but as I stated in this video, I like the way it looks and the ease of setup using on-wall heights. I do not feel like I've lost much in terms of immersiveness and the Dolby spec allows for 30° angle on heights anyway. So end of the day, I'm not really far of Dolby spec at all.
@alex kollias
Sorry, but this is not true.
Front Height / Rear Height is an officially supported Dolby Atmos Layout from the beginning!
Auro Technologies extended the Auro-3D specs later on to support also this Dolby Atmos layout. Before this, only Surround Heights were supported, no Rear Heights. With the One-for-all-setup you cover officially all three immersive 3D sound formats.
And for Music productions Dolby is recommending 30 degrees elevation angle since some weeks….
@@heimkinobinaptikum5229 do you have more info on that recent change? I recently watched some videos about the right studio setup and they didn’t mention that angle.
@@pablo.culebras Front and Rear heights are standard for Dolby. With slightly less angle than the Dolby Tops. 30 degrees vs 45. The Dolby decoder is flexible enough to use either to place the object in the right place between speakers
Now auro 3d allows to 4 ceiling speakers.... update your video