Denon Marantz 7.4.4 AVR Super Comparison - Initial Setup
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Denon Marantz 7.4.4 AVR Super Comparison - Initial Setup
Live Stream - Denon / Marantz AVR Super Unboxing - X3800H, X4800H & Cinema 40 + Cinema 50
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greets from germany, your Comparison are the best so far her on youtube , so much details times on little things but very important for a buyer. many youtubers are more bla bla bla. i watch your videos with passion. thanks for the time you put in.
I really appreciate the kind feedback. Glad you are here and supportive of my efforts. -Jon
I approve this message. Also Germany here.
GERMAN
DENON 4800 1288EURO
MARANTZ 40 1999EURO.
BLACK FRIADEY 😂
Excellent excellent very informative and detailed comparison truly outstanding
So happy to hear. Thanks for watching. -Jon
Impressive Comparison and exactly what I was looking for.
John, we discovered with the Denon X4800H that the component input is more or less useless, as they only allow input in 480i or 576i formats, rather than 480p, 576p or 720p. The interlaced format supplies a very poor virtually unusable video quality, in our opinion, compared to the progressive format. Older AVR's used to support both, and it's puzzling that they dropped progressive to literally just save a few pennies. The Nintendo Wii, Playstation 2, older Xbox etc only support component outputs, so this is important for gamers with older consoles. The Cinema 40 has the same limitation.
That is disappointing. My feeling is that external converter boxes to HDMI will become the standard method for getting legacy equipment connected -Jon
Great comparison! It was already clear to me about the minimal differences between the models. It all boils down to the sound differences between the models, finding out if Marantz is worth the premium price and if it makes sense to upgrade from a 3800 to 4800 or C50 to C40. I like the fact that you’ll also pull in the RZ50 and Emotiva. Looking forward to seeing your comparison!
Nice job spoting the lack of specifications to drive the price difference. I was expecting more myself given the $1,800 price gap between these four. I am early on with my listening tests but my initial impression is that that sonically the extra cost is not justified. The Onkyo TX-RZ50 holds up well against any of these and is the cheapest AVR I have. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks Jon for your comparison tests . In my comparison between the RZ50 & x3800h , I really liked the Onkyo’s sound . It’s OOTB sound was much better than x3800h’s sound even after running Dirac . 😊
@@ripewave last year I was going to upgrade my 3400, however given the 2.1 HDMI glitches of the 3700 decided to wait. Then came the 3800 with a nice set of upgrades, however it misses all quality sound components that mine has, requiring to go for the 4800 to be on par but at a substantial premium. Comparatively I had an Onkyo in the past and noticed a substantial sound improvement when switching over to Denon, a 991 at the time. Based on comments from you and others Onkyo seems to have come long ways, if it wasn’t for the many reported bugs and single channel subwoofer. I appreciate your reply and looking forward for your comparative review.
With the new owners Marantz is the top make and Denon second. Marantz will always be just a little bit better than Denon. Just like Onkyo and Pioneer that are the same stuff too...😀😀
Great content as usual mate. You are spoiling us and these videos are soo bloody helpful cross shopping.... thanks 👍🏽
Thanks for the encouragement. -Jon
Very nice review. I bought the x3800 as a pre pro.
I hope the x3800 serves you well. If you are able to perform a good room calibration the experience can greatly improve. -Jon
53:00: warranty: In Germany the X4800H also has 5 years warranty when the product is registered with Denon after purchase!
Nice! Thanks for sharing. -Jon
Can I connect a 5.1.4 system in my living room and use 2ch in zone 2 and let the Denon 4800 automatically assign amps if I only use zone 2 in stereo mode?
I am not a gamer so I don't think I'll ever have the need for all the 8k hdmi ports in future. what I do want is the best possible stereo playback from the receiver. It's a price difference of about 100 euro's between the x6700h and the x4800h right now. which one would you recommend?
i have a marantz 8015 , i love his design the black with the blue. quality is great and the sound to.
I associate Marantz with blue lights as with my dad's 2075 receiver from the 70's -Jon
Its amazing how much more they're charging to use the "correct" caps*( and other components). Nearly the same labor cost... tiers cost money
I am considering two flagships, Marantz Cinema 40 or Pioneer VSX-LX805. The Marantz is about 25% cheaper where I live but the Pioneer has more channels, balanced outputs, has Dirac as standard and is also supposed to be Roon Ready. The Marantz looks far better for me though and it's supposed to live up to it's legendary sound profile.
I have not heard the Pioneer VSX-LX805 yet, but the Onkyo TX-RZ50 almost sounded as good as the Marantz Cinema 40 - so my guess is the Pioneer flagship sounds as good or better then the Cinema 40. I would not expect night and day differences you can hear. So it may come down to feature set and the aesthetic you are going for. -Jon
Great video I’m looking forward to the other 2. I’m in the process of deciding on a AVR receiver. Im trying to decide between the denon 4800 the Marantz cinema 50 or the Yamaha aventage Rx-a6a. My front 3 speakers are 4ohm Martin Logan and my rear 2 are 6ohm Sonys. I have some concerns which is best for 4ohm speakers if you have a opinion on that I’d greatly appreciate it.
I generally recommend using external amplifiers if you have low impedance/ sensitivity speakers. The Yamaha will likely do the best job and it’s sound quality beats that of Denon and Marantz in my opinion - but only slightly. Consider the features that are most important you. Denon/Marantz have more features then Yamaha. -Jon
@@ripewaveok thank you. I did have one more question about the power supply. Does the higher the power supplies matter? For example the Arcam avr10 has a power supply of 1500 where the denon 4800 is 710. Is this something to take into consideration when purchasing a receiver?
I believe so. However, it also depends on the power the internal amps require. The HDMI 2.1 boards can also draw more power so it can help there too. -Jon
Had the 4800 for years. Good stuff. Considering a new one with more channels. It will be a Denon.
I'd like to know ar u actually getting better quality in sound goin from the cinema 60,50
With the same emotiva external amp and speakers
Under light normal loads I haven’t noticed much improvement in sound quality going from internal to external amplifiers. It is when you are playing louder with dynamic passages then the external amps make a big difference. -Jon
I really think Denon should give backlit remotes further down the product stack... I know the A1H has one .. i wonder if one could purchase an A1H replacement and use it on lower models. Back-Lit Remotes Rule!
Adding some LEDs to a remote does not sound like a costly addition. Not sure why they would not include on their mid-priced units as well. I can say that the remote on the Denon AVR-X4800H and AVR-X3800 share the exact same IR codes with no obvious why to change. As a result I could not have both units running at the same time without one remote controlling both simultaneously. Not sure if the A1H remote has the same IR code, but it could given it is also Denon. -Jon
Great work as usual. Pretty much what I saw from the specs page but I love how you went and used them to confirm their differences.
Hoping their sonic differences are audible.
If not, it will look pretty bad for Sound united.
With other reviews were not fond of the downgrade in sound quality this gen, doesn't look good.
Hoping the 4800 and 40 will have some impact.
Coming in without experience from the prior generation. That would have helped to know if these are an improvement or not. Yes - lots of talk that they are taking steps backwards in sound quality. -Jon
51:30: For remote in/out, why is RCA better than 1/8" phono?
Not an important difference- just different. I just prefer the RCA connector physical format for that application. -Jon
Looking forward to your sound test Jon. Always heard Denon was good for cinematic sound where Marantz leaned toward musicality. Keep up the great work.
That is an interesting perspective. I can see how that may ring true - Denon for cinematic and Marantz for musicality. Relative to each other. -Jon
I just have a amateur setup, no atmos at the time at least, but I may add ceiling speakers.
Is there any point for me going for the Denon 3800 over the cheaper 2800?
Gaming features are important.
The features you will gain with the AVR-X3800H, is Auro-3D, IMAX enhanced, Dirac (Option), pre-outs, 11 vs 7 channels of processing, and independent subwoofer control. So, you I think there is value if you plan to expand to ceiling speakers in the future. With the price difference of $1,700 vs $1,200 ($500 more) in the US, I would first determine if those addition are features you will utilize. -Jon
@@ripewave Ok thanks! It looks like 2800 is able to run 5.1.2, but will not be able to have 4 Atmos ceiling speakers. I doubt its worth it for me.
Any new models we know of coming next few months, that are similar?
Thank you for highlighting all the differences between these models.I was torn between the Denon 3800 and the 4800.I'm going for the 4800 now.I appreciate all the work you put into all your videos.I have a question about amping,can you amp the 5 bedlayers and let the 4800 power my 4 height speakers?
Yes you can do that
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 Thanks Gabriel
Yes - your reply aligns with my understanding. Thanks for responding. -Jon
Excellent comparisons! If I wanted an extra remote for the X4800H could I instead use the Marantz Cinema 40 remote -- and therefore get the benefit of the back-lighted keys?
I don’t believe so. The remotes only work with the same brand. While the same remote can control both the Marantz Cinema 40 and Cinema 50 it’s commands are not recognized by the Denon X4800h or x3800h. Likewise the Marantz models don’t respond to Denon remotes. I haven’t found any way to change the commands either transmitted or received with these.-Jon
Can you use the newer marantz remote with older marantz models such as 8805. Newer remote looks so much nicer
Another question sir if you don't mind.
You had mentioned that for the money the Onkyo RZ50 would be great as a processor, but you seem to favor your Emotiva.?.
Have you gotten a chance to review the MC1 processor?
I was thinking since I already have the Basx A7 amp that the MC1 would not only sound as good as your Emotiva, but would give me comparable Video as well if not better?
I have been told by Emotiva that they will be sending an evaluation unit of the MC1 but it has been months. I would have been better to purchase and return using their generous return policy. I can’t assume the MR1 will have the same sound characteristics as their flagship range. I believe the code is independently developed. The MC-1 and MR-1 share the same code and design with the difference being the amplifiers included on the MR-1. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks for the info!
I'm waiting for more substantial reviews of the MC1 before I decide.
I'm still deciding between the Onkyo RZ50 and the MC1. So I'll be in a holding pattern 😁
What is the Amplifier Pre-out Voltage on the Cinema 50?
I don’t know. They don’t publish and i don’t have test equipment to measure properly - just a volt meter. -Jon
1.2 Volts and I don't have the equipment...
With the amps being so close in power across all 4 units there would be no audible difference in output. For the premium price Marantz should be using the same amp sections as the Denon's but with an upgraded (toroidal) power supply and upgraded output stage. But....marketing. Regardless, the clean and powerful pre out option has been a game changer back to the X3600H.
Yes - the Denon and Marantz models have benefited from the pre-out mode. -Jon
Hmm, I would be interested to know what you think of the Denon A1H, that was released earlier on this year, I think…
My initial reaction -$6,500 for a Denon AV Receiver - that is a lot of money to spend. If the unit have pre-ins you could utilize that 15 internal amplifiers if in future years you need to upgrade the for new processor features, but it doesn’t have pre-ins for multi-channel. I would like to know if the processor and amplifier sections are that much better than the AVR-x4800H or are you just buying 6 more channels of amplifiers by spending $4,000 more? -Jon
Another impression without actually having for in-house review…
Packing 15 class A/B amplifiers into a single chassis is hard to pull off without compromise. Power suppliers are shared across multiple channels and the risk of overheating may cause nanny circuits to kick in or use of very well designer heat sinks and possibly fans. I believe they should start considering Class D modules for this level of channel density. However, good class D they may need to source from third-party supplier vs their own design lower profits for Denon. -Jon
@@ripewave not entirely no, see I want an avr, that can output to at least 15 Chanel’s, since I have enough speakers to use about 9._.9, which I know will never happen in an avr, but see I prefer avr’s, for at the moment is sounds a lot better then my older integra 5.4, but I am not sure if it could be just the fact that I got used to the denon sound of the older avr’s, for I think I last bought an actual avr about 10 years ago, where all I have had, has been Samsung sound-bars, with the bouncing off the ceiling Atmos, which does not work for me, at all, so as of right now, I like the Denon a1h, where I also want to say I see no reason to buy separates, at least for now, until someone creates a better interface/with more inputs…
Where did you get your rack system from?
It kinda looks like VTI. Just a guess
@@HappyBullets Thanks! I'll look into it.
Yes - it is a VTI rack.
Brilliant! Just what I required 👍
Glad the content is helpful. Getting part 2 with listening test feedback ready now. -Jon
@@ripewave waiting for it . 😊🙏
Looks like the X4800H is the sweetspot. Best bftb.
In my country it's already available for €2099 with prices dropping further down the line.
It's probably going to be my next processor.
Yes - I believe it is a good balance of cost and features. Thanks for sending the European pricing. Very helpful to know. -Jon
Yes Deutschland Black Friadey 1288euro😂.
Rose Silver gold!!!
It is nice Marantz added that option in the US now not just in other countries. -Jon
@@ripewave also just noticed the Cinema 70s is now on their website in the silver. In just ONE photo
Thanks for the heads up. I prefer silver over gold
Eagerly awaiting for sound difference comparison 😅
Coming soon. Trying to rap up testing tonight. -Jon
Well done video. Ibhave an old harmon kardon avr 130 yes old timevto upgrade. But i wqbt keep my 20 year old nuance speakers but cant decide which sony will handle them i cant find ohms on the speakers
I don't know the impedance of your Nuance speakers, but I did find that the Sony STR-AZ7000ES will support the use of speakers with a 4- to 16-ohm impedance.
@@ripewave ya that's part of my issue I can't find the info either on the speakers but did find some info in the svr 130 manual online so I'll keep digging
I'm looking to buy the 4800 to replace my ONKYO RZ840
Why prefer Denon 4800 over Onkyo RZ70?
@@almazmusic mine is RZ840 FROM 2020 before RZ50
@@almazmusic also price $$$$$
I mean, why not pick another Onkyo? Why did you choose Denon instead? Don't you like what Onkyo gives?
I found the Denon x4800 to be slightly better sonically then the Onkyo TX-RZ50. However, I felt that the Onkyo was within the same tier of product and close enough to the x4800 to focus your choose on the feature set, style and brand preferences. -Jon
Cinema 40 warranty is 3yrs in the states
There is a chance that Marantz has an error on their website - wouldn't be the first time. Here is what I am looking at that states 5-year warranty (towards the bottom on the page just after the specification section) : www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema40
I just don't know why you'd buy a Marantz AVR, especially their lower end stuff like this, I understand why you'd buy a SR8015 or a AV 10 with the matching AMP 10, but to me most of the Marantz lineup is just badge engineering, and I really don't buy into "it's more musical" BS does it really sound that much better than a denon how much of that is just in your head?
I agree that Marantz leans heavily on its brand reputation. I feel they charge a premium just for that aspect.
I find that there are many enthusiasts out there that don’t need so many channels and would like to get a model with the full sonic performance of a flagship with less channels and a lower price. I feel that X4800 and Cinema 40 does a good enough job for many. The Marantz AV10 may provide better sound quality - but it should for $7,000! -Jon
@@ripewave the reason why I'd get the AV10 is if I got the AMP10 and needed the power. But for me I think the A1H would be more than enough power for the speakers I have and I saw that you can get factory refurbished A1H's on accessories4less for $4888, Which is an incredible deal for the price.
The A1H represents a huge savings over the AV10 AMP 19 pair - Jon
"Marantz vs. Denon" is a bit like "Form vs. Function". Marantz puts design over usability - smaller display, non-coloured remote buttons, fancier front design. Denon goes the opposite way, puts usability and function first. For me as an engineer the Denon philosophy is more appealing for sure.
Nice analysis- makes sense to me. -Jon
...so why does the Marantz appear to have better engineered components? Why even go to that trouble at all? Would be interesting to know failure rate of Marantz vs. Denon receivers.
I'm not too bothered about the front display on any of them - I have found over decades of ownership that this particular type of display fades over time, and segments can fail. I've not had a single display like this last for many years at all before showing degredation (it is a limitation of the display technology and nothing to do with the manufacturer/brand). The OLED display may last longer, but that remains to be seen.
@@paradoxicalcat7173 Interesting. Do you think it may last longer (fade less) when NOT operating the display at highest luminosity?
Marantz vs Denon, different components and different sound signature
It cheapens both of the brands. Makes them both meaningless. I also find the deception of difference to be disrespectful to the customers. They may be ahead of the competition in a few areas, but I cannot support such behavior, and I cannot feel good owning a product without a soul. It would be better to have 2 products as 2 brands, than 4 products that are just 2.
Seems like you are just choosing the cosmetics - Jon
@@ripewave At first I thought you were talking about me. But I assume you mean (you) not as me SwirlingDragonMist, but as any person, right?
Like the only difference in these brands is the plastic wrapper on the outside, the cosmetics. Which makes both brands just cheap commodities.
Perhaps it is intentional, and the owners also own an ultra high end brand they sell to the ultrarich. Are they intentionally destroying these brands? Are they degrading them to bags of peanuts and corn? Cheap feed for the audio masses? Is that what Pioneer Elite means now? Where is the pride? Where is the craftsmanship?
Elite? No “Same”
The badge should say
Pioneer Same
Yes - “you” was meaning anyone. I find a brand like Yamaha is easier to comprehend. They have their value range as tier 1 and then their Aventage range as tier 2 and they don’t compete with each other and the Aventage has clear enhancements over the value series. -Jon
@@ripewave I feel these Pioneer/Onkyo clones are the exact reason why mergers need regulatory oversight. The consumer is being duped into an illusion of choice. I don’t even know what to call these companies, are they Denon? Are they Marantz? Integra? They’re all sinking fast when you have singular brands like Yamaha, Emotiva, which actually stand apart and have pride in who they are. I think there’s a reason Onkyo was floundering in bankruptcy. To much corporate margin focus, Not enough soul and vision. Contrast this to Yamaha, which is a musical instrument company, Onkyo is basically just an assembly company, not even an inventor, or an electronics company like Sony, but just like an assembly line for av boxes, basically a sticker company.
Which sticker do you want? A Pioneer sticker? Or an Onkyo sticker? Oh wait were talking Denon and Marantz aren’t we. So memorably different, well hold on then, let me make a phone call and work some zaibatsu magic, we can get those stickers too. Yamaha really does stand apart, their triple tuning fork kamon, way more iconic than pioneer and Marantz which are what? Western acquisitions? Sony was named after an english expression(sonney boy) to appeal to a western audience. No wonder they are outshined by authentic brands with soul. And ya know, I would much rather buy a deeply Japanese brand, than some fake western nameplate.
Japan has a good reputation, Sansui for example, great name for a Japanese brand. Who doesn’t love a Japanese rock garden? It’s so iconically Japanese.
I don’t think most people realize that their receivers are Japanese, and that they would probably be more interested in the receiver knowing it was Japanese or made in Japan, as they are known for their quality and craftsmanship. Which is why I find it so disappointing to see these two brands shying away from exceptionalism and differentiation.
They should be way more than just a tier of price. The names Elite and Aventage are good for price tier, not a whole different company name for the same product, that’s lame and boring.
There is still a difference in the quality of the speaker terminals, Marantz has much better quality and cinch connectors are gold-plated at Marantz.
Sometimes these little details add up to tip the scales in favor of the more expensive model. Even if the better connectors don’t result in better sound quality they contribute to the overall experience and enjoyment if you care about aesthetics and ergonomics. It they do make the unit sound better then that is an additional reason to make the move. -Jon
The porthole design is a joke! So you have to pay $3500 to get a real display. Stupid! Also, why isn't there an option for a door that is clear where the display is so you can leave the door up? The Cinema 50 doesn't even get the blue ring around the porthole. I can't stand the green on the Onkyo s, but at least you can see something.
Aligned with my feelings on the hardware design misses of Marantz. To me, the porthole was not the pinnacle of Marantz classic design. The honor goes to the big blue displays with silver knobs of the mid-late seventies. Then they went gold and lost me. -Jon
@@ripewave I agree. I would buy something that didn't sound as good for better looks. The OCD in me can't deal with an ugly receiver, right Onkyo?
For those who don’t mind the Onkyo style, it is still old and unchanged with this new generation. Hopes are that under the new ownership we will see a redesign in the next wave. -Jon
@@ripewave I wish these companies would start to innovate like NAD,Arcam & Anthem. I don't understand this. Yes, it's the money, but at the same time, you need to spend money to make money. If someone like Denon made a new receiver with a big OLED screen on it, I will guarantee you, everyone else will follow. They would have to
Yes - Anthem, Arcam, Monoprice and Acurus all have those nice large modern displays on their front panels. Some make use of the extra space and resolution better then others. I think it’s only the beginning and those can be even more useful and graphical in time. -Jon
I just received the X4800H and have a couple of issues with it. First, the subwoofer setup in Audyssey does not work. The on screen setup tells you to turn up the subwoofer to 75db but it stays at 30db on screen no matter how high the volume is in the subwoofer. Secondly. I get frequent audio drops that are only a split second while watching TV on the ARC. I will return it if Denon doesn’t have a fix. BTW, it is running the latest firmware.
My slightly used $350 Onkyo Z830 has 9x125W ...LMAO! I hope people STOP thinking they need a $2500-$3500 AVR unless you has a $20K cinema room! These latest AVR MSRP prices are NOTHING BUT $$$ GRAB JOKE!
The Onkyo TX-RZ50 I have is holding up well next to the $3,500 Marantz Cinema 50. Brand perception is a strong influencer.-Jon
@@ripewave I’m happy to hear this Jon. So far I’m happy with my RZ50 when compared against the x3800h . I don’t use 2 or more sub . The only thing I’m missing is the Auro 3D .
Jesus Christ...I HATE GLOSSY CHEAPASS BLACK PLASTICS! Kusdos to Marantz and Yamaha for making AVR's that don't look like ugly avr's for the last 25+ years!
Yes - The quality of the materials makes a big difference with a product’s esthetic. -Jon