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EP3 Civic SiR - K24 Drag Cartel 3.2 Cams Dyno Tune
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2021
- Tuning by Nick
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
nick@tuningbynick.com
Dynojet 224xLC Load Control Dyno Tuning
2004 Civic SiR EP3
04 Spec TSX K24A2 Block with RSX-S Oil Pump
K20A2 RSX Type S Head
Drag Cartel 3.2 Cams
Supertech Springs, Retainers
RBC Intake Manifold
RDX Injectors
Hondata Kpro
Skunk2 Alpha Header
Custom 3" Straight Through Exhaust System
Yes, is overcamed, this cams need more Rpm and bigger intake system. A high compression piston will help a lot, but if the engine is not revved higher than 8000 rpm then it does not make any sense to use these cams, the 2.2 cams will make the job and can make better mid range torque too. Excellent video as always Nick and thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the infos!! I was wandering between 2.2 and 3.2 on my stock bottom-end! You answered it !!
cant wait to bring in my ep3 , this one definitely made good power
Another great video, with awesome results!
Your videos make me so happy wow
Honda Tuning Royalty... Thanks Nick you the man.
Can’t wait to get my nitrous si tuned ! 🙌
"But you need back pressure to make power". This will be a good reality check.
Sounds so angry🔥👀
Higher comp pistons would totally benefit those cams. Stock tsx pistons holding it back. I thought dc recommend 12.1+ cr for those cams?
That crossover never gets old 😁😁
K20z3 stock is to me even more pronounced and smoother but the B18 is the king.
@@keiserious itr with ctr cams are amazing (B-Series)
BighomieJ5x - oh yes!
Holy fuck….that’s insane.
Thanks !! Im doing a very similar build here and this is great input. Thinking of going with skunk2 ultra street manifold instead of rbc tho
The RBC isn’t really enough to feed built cylinder heads, you’ll see more ponies with an ultra.
@@PolishedMobileDetailing503 ported rbc makes more power than a sk2 ultra. Dyno proven
Keep the rbc and port it. Or get a rrc.
Yea on a stock motor. Anymore more than 265 NA then the RBC is choked and ultra will shine @@thedude3189
10/10👏🏻🇭🇳
Great info mate have you ever tuned on 4 piston rr3 cams on any kseries
Yessir
I'm using a Invida Q300 2.75 inch exhaust, and 1320 race header, no cats at all. Is my setup restrictive? I am using a k24A FBO, hybrid racing 3 inch, rbc, 40 vtc gear, rdx injectors. I made good numbers on 95 octane. Wondering how much I could make with a only 0.15 inches more of an exhaust
Hi Nick I am doing k24 swap on my mr2. Will be going for turbo setup what do you suggest for cams and vtc max degree?
Thanks Nick! Amazing video as always. I am wondering if it has 12.5 compression what would be the number. What are the difference between Toda A3 and DC 3.2??
Esos CAM son killer vtec
Hey nick can I tune my 04 tl cause I wanna get a burble tune on it what you recommend keep the stock exhaust or go straight pipe?
Hi Nick. Thanks for the videos. I’m looking to do a similar build but with 12.5:1 CR and an Rsx-s intake due to space. Would the rsx-s (k20a2) intake reduce loads of power?
Have you ever tuned a set of 4piston RR4 cams? I just picked up a set on their black friday sale. Also do you do remote tuning?
How do you like the RR4 cams?
what longevity like with cams like this? I'm getting ready to do my own K build and trying to do all the research I can. I've been seeing conflicting reports. Some people say any aftermarket cams (even DIC) will kill the timing chain tensioner fast, either stock or upgraded tensioner. Other people say stock tensioner only and it'll be fine, others say upgraded tensioner and it'll be fine. You've tuned a lot of these K series with upgraded cams, how has longevity been for your customers? My planned usage is second street car with 1-3 track days a month during track season, maybe a close ratio gearbox, maybe a sequential (depending on if I can justify the cost to myself)
Will these cams do better with the stock 06-08 TSX bottom end?
Got the cams and the valvetrain upgrade plus the type s pump and stock 24 block. That EP3 can go up to 9200 safely. 10kRPM with pistons and rods.
It's a k24 it can't go that high safely.
Hello, Would you want to swap into a Civic SIR, English coupe a brand new Honda Civic TYPE R Engine...
I'm over in Vancouver. I am a Honda associate. What else, would you swap this engine into...?
An Acura Legend First/Second Gen coupe?
hey nick what rpm did you set the VTEC engagement at with the 3.2s?
In the graph looks like 5300rpm, something like that
so the dip is from vtec engaging too low?
What the VTC advance max for these cams?
Super similar to my RSX setup, but I have 2 3/4 in exhaust, stage 1 cam, and stock TB. Nick, who makes his 70 mm TB? Is it a good one? I assume it wasn't as bad as the last TB on your previous K tuned car.
I'm running the same, but stock cams. I made 252whp dynojet and 222wtq (95oct)
@@AeroPrixma you must be in Europe.
@@IaintTrynaGoOutLikeBIGnPAC Nope i use torco fuel accelerator
Hey Nick, If I am getting the 4piston pro TSX head with stock k24 block. (same mods as the EP3 in this video) What cams would you recommend. The Drag cartel 2.2 endurance cams or the 4 pistons billet RR3 cams? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Hey Jacky, did you ever select cams and get the engine on a dyno?
I also have a TSX pro head & RR3 cams waiting to be installed, I was curious as to the power gains
@TonyPatrony316 what is the max vtc on those rr3 cams on a k20 head and a k24 block?
What’s the max VTC you could run in this setup? I’m building an almost identical build and I’m scared for clearance issues with the original z3 50 degree VTC gear, I see this build is running a modified 35 degree gear, is there a reason for that particular number?
Probably build specific, setup seems like it's built for midrange. Higher vtc tends to move the powerband up
@@klarkqent yes but if you run a 50 VTC with a k20 head on k24 block with these aggressive of cams you will absolutely get some valve to piston clearance issues. I’ve since decided to just stick with the k24a2 25 degree to play it safe. 10-15 degrees isn’t worth a $5000 engine.
Can you do a video on the eg in this video
Hey Nick 👋. Whats the highest compression you would do if you where strictly limited to 91oct?
some people get the 09 tsx piston which is 11.1 ratio and its drop in , this is what i will be putting in my k24a2 block. get the mid range and top end
12.5:1 is the highest you want to go with pump gas. But you can also get octane booster and raise your octane to like 93 or 94 if you wanted to. People say octane booster doesn't do anything but with our cars or these motors the higher the octane the better they perform. I wouldn't go over 12.5:1
@@sovan781 there’s forums on mixed reviews on those pistons. Some have p2v clearance issues and needs some shaving on the pistons
@@kouxiong92 i didnt know shaving the piston was possible, isnt removing material would weaken the piston itself
@@gotthatbassI fully agree!
Hi nick, are you doing any etune?
What exhaust system did he go with? Just wondering what was the final exhaust set up like. Was it bolt on or custom?
Custom 3” no cat just a res and a muffler.
hey man quick unrelated question about your setup. i just swapped a k24a2 into my ep3 and want to get a race header, did your skunk alpha clear without any changes? im hearing a lot of people cant run a stock sway bar with a race header
I believe the owner had to remove the sway bar - I believe you can run a 2002 to 2006 CRV front sway bar instead
The k24 plm 4-2-1 works perfectly with sway bar. Just get motor mount inserts to be safe from rattles.
Pffft… No Swaybar. Weight savings baby!
Thanks for the video. What cam would you recommend for a stock k24 in an 04 Honda Element? Just looking for some horsepower.
Thanks
You need a manual trans car and kpro to do any power mods. You're SOL if you have an automatic. If you do have a manual, then you're better off just swapping to a k24a2 and kpro rather than trying to mod the stock k24a4.
@@lafave2555 thanks for the feedback
I need my ep3 k24 tuned.
A fully ported Rbc and 4 inch intake would benefit this setup due to the 3.2 cams, it would be nice to see a before and after to see how much it gains
all that work and money just to make a lot less than a supercharger kit
@@turbone54 NA engine hits different tho
@@Urbinz hits slower. cammed setups are much less reliable than properly tuned boosted ones
@@Urbinz also superchargers hit the exact same as NA just more.
@@turbone54 boost is way more cost efective but there are people that prefer N/A to each their own.
It's not too much cam due to compression. It needs a bigger Intake and even better would be a ported head. People have made 275+whp on stock k24's with 3.2's using e85. And 300+ on stock k24 short block with 4p head and Intake.
Exactly! SO its shocking to see only ~200 hp. Its suppose to be close to 300!
crankcase filter was loose, saw it turning during the pull :D
Holy f ck. How did you even see that?!
this Is a bit irrelevant, but I have a 09 civic si (k20z3) and wanted to get your opinion on lightweight pulley kits (more specifically the NST kit). Some say they are very good, some say they can be very bad. What's your take on this?
ita better to use lightweight flywheel than to do pulley kit, do you mean crank pulley they are harmonic damp for a reason
This EP3 has exedy stage1 clutch with 8.9 lbs fly wheel. Still being driven daily all through this winter. No problems. Fingers crossed.
Plus it’s a 6 speed tranny 4.7 FD with wavetrac LSD. And ATI k24 damper pulley
Hello nick, do you have an idea how much hp i can get in my k24a. Stock block , types pump, stage3 cams prayontoo, 35vtc, supertech valvetrain, 70mm tb, 3inch full exh, 3inch short intake, skunk2 manifold, 1000cc injector grams, 255 grams lph and civic si tranny oem lsd 4.7fd
You can’t take advantage of the Prayoonto stage 3 cams without proper compression…
These cams are huge for your build.
On my 8th gen si k20z3 NA how much hp & Tq difference will there be between stock exhaust & 3 inch exhaust? Other mods are 3.5 hybrid CAI & s2 alpha header.
You need kpro + tuning to maximize these Bolt ons. Otherwise, you’ll just be making noise and loose power.
@@revned3182 I’m fbo tuned on Hondata now but I just want to know the difference of power between stock exhaust & 3inch exhaust
Does a 3" make significant power over a 2.5" header and exhaust
A big yes!
With a ported stage 2 kmod k20 cylinder head, 2.4 bottom end and dc 3.2 cams etc can I reach 300hp?
@zeph3187.. update on hp ???
How much timing? Thats the question..
Do you know what power it was making before the cams?
Actually, I forgot it had 246 whp with Skunk2 stage2 v3 cams.
I think the compression is fine 260whp on pump is about where they make power, they’ll do 280ish with e85 and i’ve personally seen 310ish with bigger intakw manifold and M1 obviously for drag car. A set of 2.2’s would put the car at about 250whp on the high end. 3.2’s on stock bottom ends work perfect, they won’t gain much more with compression.
I would like to see the test. 2.2 would maybe give better midrange and give the peak power lower.
I made 282 with k24a2 stock bottom, 2.2's, using a custom center feed intake 70 tb, e85, 1200cc, 3 inch exhaust
@@danielhaynes1642 k24 unported head?
@@bonjouravecuns yes sir, type s oil pump spinning to 8800
I always thought 8k would be the limit for K24 blocks (even the stronger 06-08 TSX blocks). Just how high can you safely rev a k20/k24 with a stock 06+ bottom end? (assuming type s oil pump and such)
after 8k the piston speed on the k24 is very high. It cause the stress on the rod bolts/cast piston. You can rev it past 8k.. but don’t be suprise when the engine goes boom.
I made a cheap engine with a k24a2 06 bottom end/k24a1 head and skunk2 ultra1 cams. my peak power is at 8.1k because of the cams and i rev it to 8.7k.
It’s for road racing so I’m at 6500-8500 for 20min long and nothing happened after a year. I’m lucky I guess
@@bonjouravecuns Yeah, that has always been my general understanding of it, Nick mentioned at 8:09 that the 06+ can rev a little higher, so I was hoping that he would chime in with some more info.
I have a 06 TSX K24 and my tuner set the fuel cut at 7500 RPM for safety
@@DC5Brandon Yeah, the biggest limiting factor for a stock K24a2 from rev higher than 7500 RPM will be the oil pump. The K20A (RSX Type-S) oil pump that people upgrade to has a lower gear ratio (1.62 vs 2.0), which keeps the oil from cavitating at higher RPM.
@@minSUCCC I've got the RSX oil pump. I thought the precaution was due to piston speeds as mentioned before or the crankshaft being weighted differently. It's been so long since we installed the K24, so my memory is failing me. I do remember if I spent more money on the motor, we could have kept my previous 8600 red line, but I didn't think it was worth it at the time.
i made 245/205 stock with z1 head and tsx 04 cams
Those are good numbers! what headers/exhaust/intake manifold?
@@bonjouravecuns skunk 2 header with skunk mega rr and rbc
Hp numbers actually don't mean much and are subjective.
@@IaintTrynaGoOutLikeBIGnPAC a tune is a subjective lol. everyone should know that
What fuel pump? Thank you
Still oem Stock
What wheels are those?
17” Work Emotion CR Kai Wheels
With this setup would a thinner head gasket work?
did anyone catch what octane/fuel he used?
91 Pump gas
@@tuningbynick thanks for the response man! Great to hear, thats all we got in Hawaii. Love your videos btw. Very thorough. Keep up the great work 👍
@@tuningbynick power left on the table with 94? I agree with the engine being overcammed, I think that’s why we see the VE mismatch in the midrange.
What is important for 300 hp k24 swap ?
Upgraded Cams.
Type-S oil pump.
3” exhaust & 3”+ Intake
Tensioner & Timing Chain maintenance
@@revned3182 and compression at least 12.5..
What transmission does he have?
04 RSX Type-S 6spd w/ Wavetrac LSD
@revned3182 Then thats a dope EP 👍
No lumpy/choppy cam lope. Well that sucks!
260HP is proper.. wow
wonder what youd hit if you revved even 500rpm higher
Edit! 260WHP is good. He needs better forged rods and higher comp pistons. Then a 4 Piston Port Job 156v2 or 163 V2 and should be 300WHP+. !
Original: "If I was the owner of this car I would be super disappointed. I would be expecting at least 250Whp, but it barely makes 200!. Owner should get the issues fixed and re-dyno."
i heard all tsx bottom end are the same.
The 06-08 TSX blocks are slightly stronger actually.
Taken from Hondata's webpage:
Additional air passages in crankcase for reduced pumping losses
Stronger conrods
New crankshaft with more counterbalance weight
Revised pistons with more valve-piston clearance
@@minSUCCC I'm having a hard time finding actual proof of this. Even though that's what Hondata claims. A lot of misinformation out there I guess
@@dTheHammerb theres proof that its the same lol but not a lot to prove its different
@@adrianvega4817 clearly you've never taken apart the two engines.
@@IaintTrynaGoOutLikeBIGnPAC I'm all ears. Based on the digging I've done and the info I've found, the difference between the blocks is still up in the air. Something about the 06-08 TSX blocks having slightly stronger rods and a slightly better balanced crank shaft? I genuinely want to know, K24 is my next move
oh hell no! this shop....shut it down
The EP3 is so ugly. I don't know how people like it.
the USA ep3 version is ugly cuz is not R usa never get the ep3 type R, ep3 type r is beautiful especially the facelift 04-05 ..