THIS Indy 500 Move Just Got BANNED
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2024
- / davidland
IndyCar just made a rule change that is a great first step to correct some of the controversy that filled the finish of last year's Indianapolis 500... let's talk about it!
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I’m a big fan of this rule. Common sense from a safety standpoint. Great call!
That move to the white pit lane entrance should’ve been banned not only after the race, but a long time ago.
Better late than never, thank goodness it’s banned. That was scary.
If racing scares you change the damn channel. This rule is the deal breaker.
@@williamhall7165😂
@@williamhall7165 you seem like the kinda guy that would chew an aspirin
True but i guess better late than never...newgarden did nothing wrong because there was no rule...drivere will push the limits always
@@williamhall7165not really,they can still race...if nothing this rules will improve the racing...if you move too much you cant get overtaken...rules make the sport better especially when something bad can go wrong
Logical rule. Glad it didn't require a higher stakes act to trigger it.
I put this in the same category as the Chastain wall ride move. It was awesome and loved it when it happened, but I never want to see it again.
Said it well, exactly how i feel...ill miss it but definitely doesn't improve racing...it just looked amazing but in reality even though i like Newgarden more i think marcus should have won it or been a side by side finish
@@mrbungle3310 yeah the last red flag got cheers when I was there but once people sobered up from drinking all day I’m sure they know it should’ve finished under yellow
Not even remotely in the same category lol! How stupid are you idiots?
@@LeopardGeckoFryhahaha not even close, fuck you people are insufferable 🤦♂️
If this was left unpoliced, a driver was nailing the attenuator within the next 5 years
I was surprised it wasn’t already rule while I watched last years finish. This is a needed change for sure.
I’m glad it’s banned because who knows what could’ve happened if Newgarden crashed trying to defend his win? Not only would the drivers be at risk, but also the fans
You might wanna add possible rival pit crew member or TV crew and pit reporters as possible unwanted casualty. The debris or tyres may fly into the pits and possibly hit pit crew and pit reporters as well.
I personally a bit scared (albeit also excited) on how Pagenaud and Rossi were weaving trying to break the draft of each other in the waning laps of 2019 Indy 500. It's as if they were in the Top Gun school trying to evade being missile-locked by each other or their instructors.
Why single out newgarden when numerous others have done the same? He wasn’t going to crash, some of you people are helpless
@@crazysoundman no he wasn't. But, and, as most rules are for the hypothetical, say a driver dives below the line, and the driver behind pulls up along side. Then doesn't let the 1st driver back up. What happens then?
This I actually agree with. It doesn't ban "snaking", but it does ban the maneuver that could end disastrously.
Snaking is just another word for blocking. And that's banned.
@@nikeestar it’s not blocking though
@@nikeestar trying to break the draft is not blocking.
Indycar now has its own version of NASCAR's yellow line rule.
I'm worried about that!
Thank God for that. If you saw Mark Dismore or Spencer Pigot hit that attenuator, you'd know why this rule is needed. Those hits weren't the result of weaving, but they still were nasty impacts.
will it have selective enforcement like nascar
@@dirt8822 That's the most important question.
All we need is a bit of yellow paint & we're there.
I love watching drivers get creative, and I love the snaking. It's fun to watch and levels the playing field for the driver out in front. However, it's great to see IndyCar making a safety rule before we see an incident
You know what I would do if I were in charge of IndyCar? I'd form a small visioning group, with no representation of teams, drivers, tracks, suppliers, etc. (Their input would come later.) I'd charge them with this mission:
1. What, in general, is IndyCar supposed to be? NASCAR without fenders, F1 lite for North America, what?
2. What is needed to bring that about? What sort of schedule, cars, engines, rules, and whatnot? Not the details, but in general. How long should the season be? What kind of tracks? What should the chassis be like, and how many manufacturers? What sort of engines?
After I get this report, I'd start talking to the stakeholders (including fans!) to figure out how to make this happen. But right now, it seems like the attitude is "Well, it's existed so far, so it has to continue to exist, so how to do that?" This preservationist attitude was needed in the wake of the split and reunification. But that's in the past now. Existing is not its own justification in this case. Figure out what would be lost if IndyCar went away, and that's what should be the focus for everything IndyCar does.
This is a fantastic idea. This is exactly what should be done.
i have said for a while now if we have to have a green finish so all finishes are special then no finish is special because the drama is manufactured. i cant even recall a finish any more in nascar from overtime onwards but I have memories of a lot of older crazy finishes because it was real natural drama on track.
The 2023 Indy 500 finish was the 2021 Abu Dhabi GP finish and 2023 Australian GP finish combined
Glad IndyCar is making the first of hopefully many good rule changes. The purity of the Indy 500 needs to be protected at all costs
Amen!
yessssss!!! they need to lose those damn red flags!! talk about contrived!!
If they stayed under yellow after Pato crashed they probably could have done a natural GWC. It used to be three laps under yellow after red before a restart. There shouldn't be a red flag unless the track is blocked or barriers need repaired.
Agreed BUT as some1 who only watches the Indy 500 (fan of F1, WEC/IMSA, gt racing in general) Motorsports popularity is exploding. Ending a race under yellow is very anticlimactic especially when it’s the biggest event of the year. That said it can’t be done egregiously like Abu Dhabi 2021 where set procedures are thrown away for the show.
Back to last years 500 from a sporting perspective - it’s not consistent nor “correct” but from a business perspective it was the right call. It was an awesome race and the ending was a banger and that’s all new / casual fans will remember and guarantee more people are going to watch again this year then if it was a standard end under yellow situation
This was needed. Something really bad was bound to happen if this was not addressed.
The thing is 4:52 this rule is more about safety at the pit entrance not a silly yellow line that spans a whole track. Also you can’t rubbing is racing someone in Indy plus it’s more clear if someone is avoiding another car in Indy since they aren’t bricks. Great rule to have for safety
Well, that’s an absolute no-brainer on that decision. It’s well needed.
When I saw the dotted line last year I thought that line was there for this rule. Good move
I don’t understand how people can lobby for reds and gwc at the Indy 500 after just watching fans have to duck a fucking tire.
Green-white-checkers are stupid, leave gimmicks to NASCAR...I just wish NASCAR would go back to 2003 rules and gen 6 cars.
I don't hate this rule but now I fear of someone becoming Indycar's Reagan Smith by having their win unjustly taken away from them. As far as red flags at the end of races, NASCAR used to have a "point of no return" rule before GWC. For example, any yellow flag after lap 195 of a 200-lap race would result in the race ending under caution with no questions asked. If it came before, then they would likely red flag the race to get a green flag finish. Indycar should look at such a rule.
Or IndyCar's Carl Edwards. Or another Dan Wheldon incident cause wrecking the leader becomes the only way to win
I think, in the ideal race there is no one, obvious strategy or driving pattern. But, out of all of the winning strategies, going slow should not be one of them
I was surprised last year to learn that there was no rule against touching or crossing the pit entry line. The rule needs to be cars can not touch the line rather than cross the line. They need to take away any ability or incentive to want to turn further right off the bend. Penalties can be given if a driver forces a car down to the line. Basically the drivers need to be told the pit entrance line is a virtual wall.
I caught up with Marcus at Iowa last year and you could still tell this raced bugged him he thought he had it won. Very gracious/good dude stayed behind an extra second to sign an autograph. I'll be rooting for him to turn Andretti around.
next gen indycar chassis get the chassis makers to build it multiple Dallara, Oreca Multimatic, Ligier to make the cars basically like imsa did the lmdh cars.
A line rule is needed. This is a rule in NASCAR and F1 as well. So 2 out of 3 major racing sanctioning body has this rule.
But do you really need it? Talladega 2009 is pretty evident what a line rule can and usually results in
@@Maverick33 Talladega is not comparable at all. Bringing up NASCAR in the context of an open wheel series is silly, but you're also comparing the wrong rule.
The commitment line rule is what would apply in this context and that was very successful and uncontroversial in NASCAR it Flatout reduced accidents there's no question about it.
Fact is the overwhelming majority of open wheel categories around the world have a commitment line rule for the pit lane and they do not cause accidents.
Thankfully unlike most of the others it didn't take a death to understand the need for the rule.
I hate fuel mileage races. If they’re racing on fuel strategy, the tire degradation isn’t severe enough. I want to see driver talent and chassis setup play a bigger role than who can calculate the best mpg and outdistance the other fuel savers.
With a limited amount of fuel allowed for the full distance, Indy has always been a fuel mileage race.
Great call! Waaaay past time for this ruling! The first time this was seen it should have been banned! NASCAR needs to ban the infield racing at Phoenix too! The racing should be confined to the racing surface!
it’s so similar to the hail melon in the sense that my thoughts are “wow that was insane now never do that again”
Imagine hitting that pit attenuator wall at 240mph and going airborne into the pits.
Great change. You shouldn't be able to go on to what is basically part of pit lane. If someone were to hit the pit lane wall at full speed like that we would loose a driver we didn't need to loose.
The comment about not out NASCARing NASCAR needs to be played more often. Ever since NASCAR became really popular, I have believed that every other racing series has cheapened themselves trying to get a piece of the pie.
A lot of what made me switch to IndyCar in 2015 was it wasn't NASCAR, it was more competitive than NASCAR and less gimmicks.
so you can still try to break the draft as long as the car stays between the white line. how many tyres have to be over the white line. can i touch the white line. can i go over the line as long as 1mm of the tyres on the right side are still on the track.
Seeing that finish video again I think Ericsson was close enough to Newgarden that if he held his line off of 4 and didn't follow Newgarden below the line he may have beaten him to the finish line?
Also didn't they wave off a restart earlier with Pato hanging back. What if Ericsson hung back on the restart and there was a crash in the fleld before Newgarden passed? Red Flag ?
This makes sense! No problems with drivers breaking the tow but going jnto the pit entry is just dangerous!
I hate that wall. Been a huge fear of mine for years.
If Indy Car keeps having red flags (yes you said it just as I was typing it!) The last two years having red flags in the final laps have just sucked.. and I'm a Marcus Erickson fan.... The new "ban" is a good one. I still remember Kevin Hogan hitting the delimitinator...made my blood run cold. "Entertainment" red flags are garbage.
Need to have an expected minimum of 4 laps green to checker or the red ends the race.
I admit, when I watched the race last year, I was shocked when the race didn't end under caution and then doubly so when Newgarden and Ericsson weren't penalized for ducking into the pit lane. As others have said, it was a ballsy move, and Newgarden should be thanking his lucky stars it didn't bite him in the keister. The Brickyard is a venerable old lady deserving of respect, and if you push too hard, she will push back. To reiterate, a gutsy move, and I never want to see it again.
Also knows as "Marcus Ericsson move". He did exactly the same move in 2022.
Yeah when he did that last year my first thought was that’s hella dangerous. If someone crashed into that head on it could be very well be fatal.
Yep. Not to mention the car and debris launching into the crowds or crews.
Check out Kevin Cogan's crash from 1989 as a good example.
And Mark Dismore in 1991. Keep in mind both of those crashes didn't happen because of "snaking" they simply just lost the back end from a loose condition.
@@tbh791 Accidental as Cogan's and Dismore's crashes were, they do show the danger in hitting the end of the pit wall, and prove IndyCar's wisdom in banning intentionally "snaking" that low.
Nascar has remote Judges now who have all the data to see if he gassed or braked or turned and all Video. they can make a call realtime. that might clean it up.
I totally agree with the rule. I was sitting on the front straight in 2023 and saw it live. Very scary for the drivers and the fans. I definitely believe Marcus Ericisson got the shaft. He should have been the winner. I was sitting down in Turn 1 the previous year and witnessed the "Snake" on a late restart. Again very scary to witness. One small mistake and it is a disaster for all. Drivers and fans. Thank God the drivers are so skilled to be able to handle that situation. By the way, Pato O'ward had the fastest car. He should have won. Got greedy instead of being more patient. I was rooting for him. Love your commentary. Hope I run into you at the Speedway.
Actually if the Indy 500 was more like the Daytona 500, there would be many more lead changes and much more competitive. Fans do not pay money to watch caution laps.
I would have updated the blocking rules to cover the crazy weaving, too, but this is a good move.
(You don't have to completely ban the weaving, but you can mandate that drivers leave a lane or two, or use the old one move rule)
I’m still conflicted on all those red flags at the end of last year’s 500 too. The racing fan in me exploded with excitement along with the rest of the track every time another one was announced but I still couldn’t help but feel like they were excessive since past races even ones I’ve been to have ended on yellows. Very tough cause Josef definitely deserved it with everything he actually did during the race but still feel like the reds gave him an advantage
Honestly not that unreasonable of a rule. Its cut and clear ruling and shouldnt impact too much of the good racing
I'm glad they banned it before someone found out the hard way why it was a bad move.
They need more than two engine manufacturers and a second choice or even three choices for chassis. Try to get back to the 90’s entry lists. In my opinion that was one of the best era’s to watch in person. The sound of those cars screaming down the front stretch still brings me chills.
I totally agree with the rule change. I don't like the part that feels like something should be taken away from Newgardens win.
I thought it was extremely odd and dangerous when I saw it. I don’t watch Indy car and figured that would be banned. All he’s doing is using as much track as he can but it’s dangerous to be driving straight at the wall. I like the fact that they said nothing about the weaving to break draft.
Haven't watched yet, will next but, knew EXACTLY what move you were talking about as soon as I saw the thumbnail. Good!!!
Eventually the worse WOULD have happened..
I’m glad you brought up 2002. That was the beginning of the end for me. (I’m an “old timer” who can remember as far back as 1957 listening to the 500 on the radio with my dad.) In 2002 I sat 3 rows from the top of the entrance to turn 3 and saw Paul Tracy take the lead before the yellow light came on. I haven’t been back since even when I had tickets. 2023 was the end for me. Indycar has become all about “The Show” not “The Race.” Can anyone say, “WWE”? Red flags for a crash? (Green, White, Checkered) I’m a Race fan and I’m fine with the race ending under yellow at 500 miles.
Races ending under caution is really something people need to get used to. Not every race is going to be the most exciting nor have the greatest finish. Especially if we want legitimacy.
Ask Kevin Cogan about that pit attenuator 😢
Good rule change.
Races need to start and END at the start finnish line. No freezing the field, no video and judgement calls determining the winner.
And races need to end at the advertised distance. No " overtime "
Creating a formula is hard. Nobody wants there to be enough room for advantage that on team can end up winning by multiple laps. On the other hand, I think Indy has gone too far in equalizing the cars, so we get the snake racing and fuel savings. You need enough continuity so that cars, or at least designs, can be carried over for multiple seasons, but still allow for innovation. At the least, there needs to be at least one area of risk/reward that can be exploited.
Right now the formula has been too stable and the cars have become overly optimized, to the point that you have to be willing to take the risk on the track to win.
Wholeheartedly agree. "Heck of a move (and technically legal) - but ... yeah that shouldn't be allowed again."
Your description of NASCAR is why I have always said, since it first came out, that Talladega Nights was the most accurate NASCAR movie ever made. The technical details of other movies are obviously far better. But as a portrait of NASCAR (and it's marketing) as a whole? No contest.
Finally! Absolute dangerous move that is not needed at Indy
Those were dangerous maneuvers Fs. As someone who regularly sits in the infield coming out of 4 it’s definitely exciting but it’s very scary seeing them get so close to the pit wall. Good call by Indycar
The problem with the last red flag wasn't that they threw it... It's that they didn't throw it immediately. If they were going to try and preserve a green flag finish for the fans and had thrown the previous red flag, then of course if that restart gets a yellow flag then you would throw a red flag to still try and preserve the chance for a green flag finish then too.
But by not immediately going red seconds after the last car took the yellow on the restart, they opened up the problem of having to restart coming out of the pits with no warmup lap. The decision to go red should've been something automatic and that contingency already decided within the given circumstances. Heck, they'd just had a red flag period, and then caution laps, to think about and discuss what to do (and when) if something happens on the restart and remaining laps.
First of all, I'm going to say I absolutely despise Nascar's double yellow lane. Very stupid rule that causes more problems than it prevents.
That being said, I support this rule. Nascar isn't barrelling towards a wall on the apron at superspeedways at 220mph like IndyCar is at IMS.
I’m glad that going to the white line is banned since that scares me when a driver could hit the entenuator.
3:35 Glad I'm not the only one that compared to. How the hail melon was banned
Smart move to ban it. I was surprised it was allowed previously, especially watching Josef last year. Seems a little too reckless.
Great commentary David, I think you aced everything you talked about
Sorry Newgarden, no more below pit line moves
I’m very happy with this rule. Drivers have been pushing it further and further, someone was going to hit that attenuator if the series didn’t do something about it. Like you said if the video, respect to Newgarden for the move, but I’m glad IndyCar is shutting it down before it gets out of hand
I remember Askew's crash a couple of years ago... I had goosebumps
As David alluded to, we only need to look to the fourth lap of the 1989 500 to know what can happen when a car hits the pit wall end attenuator: Kevin Cogan's car split in two when it hit that spot. Thankfully, Cogan was unhurt, but that was about as destroyed as I can ever remember seeing an Indy car.
Mark Dismore's accident during Fast Friday practice in 1991 was even worse than Cogan's.
Absolutely correct. You go down the line, you stay there.
I fully agree with you David, and the last two bad 500's were 2002 and 2023.
You're correct about the DW12, the last three races at Phoenix were bad because the slow cars were to close to the fast cars. We need to have a formula were new cars are built and some teams use a 2 year old car, like the CART days.
Seems like everybody forgets Ericson did the same thing to win the race the year before. All the posts I've seen want to call it the Newgarden move, this was not new for last year.
Honestly I do like this rule. It makes sense especially since Indy lost its apron back in the early 90s for the warm up lanes. I feel the real reason why last years race was controversial was the red flag. The block for the win while dangerous isn’t controversial.
It is Great to see you on the Pit wall of this video you do so very well. Now lets race OVALS and closed Road Race courses. In the Indy Lites someone needs to watch Hailey Deagan, as she become the driver she is on a path bringing her to Indy. Tony Stewart watched her for about 10 laps on his rear bumper in the final SRX Race last year at HIS TRACK. Big smiles... in 2023 from Tony. He certified her as a real driver, never quitting only wanting first place.., but taking second.
It should have been banned years ago!
Would be funny if the rule was "if you cross the dotted white line you must proceed through the pit lane"
It is an automatic instant drive through
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like the finish if last year's Indy was shady.
I will agree with the rule change. Look at the velocity of the car pointed at pit road at more than 220mph. If there was a mechanical failure, pitroad would be a carnage.
I see that legal move as a driver is using all legal options to win.
I watch every Indy car race and I'm always shocked they don't attempt to finish under green. I wish they would, but I'm sure some will disagree
I said this in May of last year and I'll say it again :
We cannot and DO NOT need these "one lap shootouts" ending the biggest race of the year. What happens if Newgarden slams the pit wall coming off turn 4 at 230+ MPH? What if Newgarden is injured or worse? What if the last lap is someone's last lap? IndyCar got SO lucky those are just what ifs we're bringing up and not the actual topics we're actually talking about.
Thank GOD they did away with what Newgarden did, so it's a start. But there's so much of a long way to go.
Good decision with the proximity to the end of the pit wall. We saw the destroyed wall a couple years ago, imagine that with a pack coming thru.
Other racing series have such rules for racing over track limits (ie. going over the white lines in F1 for example). This is a good rule, and it's for sport safety. No one wants '72 Indy 500, or worse '55 Lemans.
I’m not quite done, watching the whole video yet, but I don’t get your sadness. I thought the race was great, it was exciting, sure newgarden shouldn’t have driven below that line, but he was doing what he needed to to win, should he do it again in the future? Certainly not, and they won’t do it. But I did not feel disappointed or sad or upset or concerned, or anything about that race. Everything seemed above board and I don’t think there’s any thing to be disappointed about.
Leave the race ending under caution. As a previous racer, it'll be an incentive the driver to make sure they are more cautious because they would be pissed that they didn't get a chance to advance their position. Definitely agree with a lot of what you said. I was in the NEVS last year and rolled my eyes when they announced that one lap shootout. I don't like the circus and pony shows (ie NASCAR). Let them race and let the race play out.
The one thing I disagree with, and I’m a NASCAR fan so feel free to disregard my comment; is the idea of an “undeserved win” if you play by the rules, and a freak circumstance happens to put you on the podium at the end of the race, you earned that win deservedly even if you weren’t “the fastest”. Let’s save the pedantic nitpicking for Formula 1
I feel like now, we're gonna see something even worse about to happen. Such as the 2nd place guy putting the leader into the fence. Cause look at what NASCAR's yellow line rule resulted in. Instead of photo finishes, you often see the 2nd place guy just flat out wrecking the leader to win. I feel like that's what'll happen with this new line rule. Where drivers adopt that "Wreck the leader or lose the race" mentality that NASCAR's yellow line rule created. Carl Edwards referenced that at Talladega in 2009.
Excellent video
I agree with all his points and they were very well made
It’s great to see a young person thinking clearly regarding The 500 Mile Race
My seats are in the tower terrace section 78. To me when he made that move it didn't look that bad...but that is live at full speed. Not until I saw all the angles could I see how far down he went. But this has been coming for a couple years, he just took it a bit farther.
Snake maneuvers ok except its not a good idea to use by the pit entrance. Because its a hard plowing in the pit lane divider.
You think the controversy about Monday's Daytona 500 finish was bad? Without the last red flag, last year's Indy 500 would have said hey 2002 Indy 500, hold my beer. There would be debates for the next 30 years about who was really leading when the backmarkers crashed for 25th position.
The 500 was great.
Good rule. I would like to see a "one move rule".
I'm not sure if this is just on my end, but I can't hear any sound.
EDIT: Never mind, it was just my tablet being stupid.
Glad this rule was handed out because it wouldn't been catastrophic if one or both cars went into the fence. Also get rid of the red flag within 5 laps to go it a entertainment thing for the network
Can someone please explain to me why there is no fence on the little wall of the main straight ?
On the back straight, there is the apron, grass, then the inside wall with a fence.
But on the main straight, just a 4 feet wall between the pit lane and the cars going 230.
Are we waiting for something really bad to happen before doing something ?
Correct call, that move is genuinely dangerous
I have felt for a long time that the solution was to require a car to at minimum drive through the pit lane if they had a tire cross over the dashed line.
I applaud the new rule. I also agree a red flag rule needs to be made. I think 5 laps remaining on ovals is the right cutoff point. On road and street maybe 3 laps.
they should write a rule that on laps 1-197 or something then they red flag at 198-200 then its a caution finish. However you dont tell the teams the exact lap number that you are going to red flag or yellow finish the race because you dont want some strategizing and whatever at the end of the race planning or trying to cause that type of finish in a team's favor
So throw a Caution on Purpose with a few laps to go?
no I mean, if there is an incident on lap 1-197 that requires a red flag, throw the red and go back to green when ready. if a red flag incident happens at 198-200 then you dont red flag with the intention to go back to green, you just run out the laps under caution yellow flagged@@darwinLee81283
no what I meant is that in red flag situations from lap 1-197, they throw the red and go green when ready again. Hover at laps 198-200 if a red Flag situation occurs, it doesnt go red with the intention to finish under green, it just finishes under yellow. but you dont want teams stretegizing or gambling on fuel or doing anything to "plan" for that type of finish so you tell them that indycar has a set rule plan for this situation, but the teams wont know what flag will be thrown@@darwinLee81283
Honestly, I thought it was banned during the 2023 race, especially with the added doted line leading to pit in. I have not seen that doted line there in other Indy 500s, so I was definitely surprised to see Josef go under that doted line and not get penalized. It's definitely needed to have that rule in place for safety, especially when you have pit lane right there. Hell, Robin Miller for years wanted IMS to put a catch fence up on the inside wall on the front stretch to prevent any cars from wrecking over the pit wall.