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Video Games Always get Armor WRONG!: Bloßfechten vs Harnishfechten
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- čas přidán 19. 11. 2023
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My favorite part about armored fighting is how it always devolves into a steel clad fist fight after about a minute
Or just wrestling
It did look like a very dumb way to use a sword. I understand if maces were wildly popular xD
@@MidnightDoom777basically graco roman wrestling
@@johanrojassoderman5590Yes. I used to never understand the benefit of maces and axes until I looked at real armored combat.
Just use a Mace or Hammer 💁♂️
"civilian clothes" meanwhile he looks like the prince of persia
They had colors and red and black were easy to create compared to blue and green. They dye clothes many times over again.
We just standard the idea that everythjng was black and white because of the industry age.
@@robertagren9360 I think its sort of the same idea when it comes to a lot of ancient buildings and statues. They look relatively colourless or plain, but that due to all the paint and colours disappearing with time and wear.
@@Aevum13th
Likewise the idea that castle were grey.
The church as example changed to what was the most prestige at the time that there's ages on the color of the roof. Color was a luxury. And we can't expect the wealthiest to be cynical living in a barrel because it's cheaper to be a wealthy man on the street than a poor one in a wealthy home.
Exactly what I was thinking
I stand corrected by the comments
Prince caspian's cousin
Armored combat looks like two cans of tuna trying to open each other.
It basically is
The only difference is that the tuna usually comes pre-minced
That's what the dragons saw
2 cans... haha you fool armor isn't that heavy when thoughst wears it
I needed a good laugh. Thank you good sir.
Unarmored sword combat: a careful and elegant dance between two combatants
Armored sword combat: PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE!
a thought came to mind...
"TELL ME HOW THE GRASS TASTES LITTLE ONE!"
'GRAB HIS D**K AND TWIST IT!'
How civilians remember the sword: an elegant weapon for a more... civilized age
How knights remember the sword: FIGHT BACK NIGGA, FIGHT BACK!
@@blackthrone6976 You 🤝 Me (We both know what you're referring to)
Stop that blade
You mean a 2-3 pound sword can't cut clean through plate with a single swing????? Maybe if you try reverse grip it would work better.
You need the lightsaber upgrade for that to work
You forgot a crucial part. You have to spin for it to deal maximum damage
@@DuelistFencingif you sword was folded 1000 times its basically the same
It's not a question of where you grip it! A 3 pound sword can't cut 3mm steel! It's simple question of shearing forces - please people get the reference!
@@warpdrivebyWhat if it was an African sword?
"Back then, the fighting would have been done in what I'm wearing now... a pirate costume with a Han Solo vest."
Bringing your Bloßfechten to a Harnischfechten fight 😂
You'll have your work cut out for you, that's for sure!
Fun linguistic fact: blossfechten and harnischfechten are compound words. Blossfechten is composed of "bloss" (can't get the sharp S on mobile unfortunately), meaning "naked", and "fechten" which means "to fight". Meanwhile, "harnisch" means "armour".
I might not speak German that well, but damn, sometimes it's so close to Dutch that it's nowhere near difficult!
(In Dutch, bloss/naked = bloot, fechten/to fight = vechten, and harnisch/armour = harnas)
ß ;)
Yep, german here I would translate it as bare fencing and armor/harness fencing
I guess everyone chooses different words when translating. Actually I think bare fencing and harness fencing are pretty close to Bloßfechten and Harnischfechten in terms of sound as well no?
Yup that's it pretty much.
English also has compound words, but they like to leave the spaces in 😂
At least for a while. They do drop it eventually, like in "maybe".
Oh. I was under the impression it was the same root as "blouse" and mentally translated it to "shirt fighting." ...Eh, close enough, I suppose.
ahh yes ik hou van naaktvechten en pantservechten
“I own a long sword for home defense..”
You might be better served by a short sword in those confined spaces tbh, a short sword and a clear plastic riot tower shield 😊
Just like the founders intended!
Just as the Knight's of the round intended.
@@SonsOfLorgar Viva ROMA!
I own a polearm for home defense
One thing that video games actually often do get correct is that the type of damage that is most effective at bypassing armor was actually bludgeoning or impact damage.
See, it's nigh impossible to cut through plated armor, and extremely difficult to pierce it. But it can easily be dented. And if you dent it hard enough, you can damage the wearer's bones while imobilizing their joints. It's a terrifying way to die.
Canned human anyone?
Swords worked as well. You get underneath an arm and cut off a blood vein and they will not be able to continue fighting with that arm as the rest becomes an execution. You need both arms even when holding with one hand.
@@robertagren9360They're still wearing maille and gambeson under there, so that's way harder and less likely than you're imagining.
@@robertagren9360"You get underneath the arm & cut the blood vein..." Dude, you sound like you somehow stumbled upon a glaringly obvious fact that no one realized before, failing at all to realize juz how fucking difficult to pull off what you just said in actual combat situations. Besides, just as the guy right below you replied, NOBODY wears plate armor naked. ANYONE who actually wears plate into combat situations, would be wearing at least 2 more layers underneath, raising your oh-so-brilliant observation from fucking difficult, to near fucking impossible.
You don't even need to dent the armour, the impact when a mace or hammer hits the armour passes on the concussive force to the body inside, so brains get rattled, muscles bruised and bones fractured from the tranfer of force.
I’m fresh off a Dark Souls 3 run, so
Thou should parry and run them through for uber damage.
Make sure to have your Hornet Ring equipped at all times just in case you are challenged to a duel while waiting in line at Panera
Don't forget your Jesters shirt to prevent unwanted back stabs while you're in line.
one pro tip is to get naked, when you meet an armored knight its tuesday but when a naked dude comes at you, you know its over. (souls logic)
@@gamedestroyer3070
I tried that once…. The firekeeper wouldn’t come near me.
Hurtful
@@durantes you need to level faith (faith in oneself)
I've heard the comparison of armored fighting to can opening. Especially when they're using a poleaxe.
That is... morbid... but likely accurate😂
Except the can doesn't want to be opened... and it's also trying to kill you 😂
@@Someone-dv7hwindeed
@@DuelistFencingnow I'm imagining a person fighting a can with a can opener
Yooo I'm in this clip! Thanks for the saber exchanges man, looking forward to more!
There's also an underuse of grappling. Seriously, pinning your opponent's arm is even more important and effective when that arm has a sword in it.
Since I've been practicing with the Buhurt guys in Texas, I've come to love armored combat. The intensity and intimacy of it all is just top notch- soothing and calming for my soul. I have been very surprised by the transferability of folk wrestling and jiujitsu techniques and the brutality of the fencing. Its just awesome.
Another thing that I see a lot of video games get wrong is that when your sword hits an opponent, whether they block or not, the sword just kind of phases through them and gets to the other side because the animations for hitting and not hitting are the same, when in reality your sword will just stop and you have to transition into a different move
Darktide (and the other -tide games) gets this very right, where melee weapons require careful aiming and will often bounce off armour unless specifically designed for armour (ie hammers), while lighter weapon users (swords, daggers, just about anything with a blade instead of blunt) have to seek unarmored weakspots, or rely on teammates to remove the targets they can't. The desperate move is instead just bluntly whacking the enemy with a sword like it is a club to stagger them, and even that usually doesn't work. Swords for meat, hammers for armour.
All weapons should also have hit stop against armor.
@@RealKingCrabgonIIwhy? Sword would glance off and continue with your movement
@@RealKingCrabgonIIDarktide again. The heavier swords can cut through a couple "chaff" enemies if you use it like a bludgeon and line them up, while smaller weapons will stop after just one body. And all of them just uselessly bounce off carapace armour, giving a comical visual and souns of a cornered player flailing in despair before getting mauled by a heavily armoured opponent.
@@ElliotLegendary that’s a video game
Seeing sooo many things in media misuse or ignore the value of armor is so annoying. So much acts like it’s just cool decorations to cut through. Though it is nice to find fights that actually implement armor effectively.
I've seen guys in full late 15th century harness trampled by a horse that can carry 300kg at full charge, get up and have no or only minor injuries. Broken/dislocated fingers mostly. I was shit-shocked the first time, I was up out of my seat about to run and give first aid when the guy popped up and waved! 🤯
I've seen guys in full late 15th century harness trampled by a horse that can carry 300kg at full charge, get up and have no or only minor injuries. Broken/dislocated fingers mostly. I was shit-shocked the first time, I was up out of my seat about to run and give first aid when the guy popped up and waved! 🤯
I like sekiro's take on fully armored opponent
Haha, yeah:
“His armour’s too effective! Guess I’ll just kick him off this bridge.”
Daquitem is a really good guy to watch for realistic harnishfechten
Yeah, indeed
That last pommel strike to the helmet was personal 😂
When fighting an armored opponent
Sword
Yeah, the pommel of the sword ends up being used like a hammer but it's obviously weaker
As well as maces
I have seen people absolutely beat the hell out of each other with maces and morningstars while Harness Fencing (English term for armored combat described in this video), and they get up just fine.
But the moment a sword or dagger poked them armpit everyone stops the fight and declares the poker to be the winner. Why? Cause that fucking hurts and with an actual sharp weapon it would be lethal.
There are gaps in armor that are easier to exploit with a sword and dagger than with a hammer.
Jorm mains unite
@@Kingdomkey123678yeah no, if you fight me and i have a hammer you would end with your armor in your insides and unable to breatje, in sparring maybe in a battle to the death a mace or hammer would fuck you down badly
Growing up I always wondered why clubs and morning stars were a thing until I saw someone take a swing at an armor with a sword. I just bounced off, left a scratch mark, sure, but ultimately did next to nothing. Then it all made sense
There's definitely a reason polearms were the primary weapons used by armored combatants (knights or otherwise). Going into battle with just a sword in the middle ages would be like going into battle now with a .22 pistol - you could conceivably kill/beat an opponent, but it's not especially likely.
in harnishfechten which is the form that happend between knights on special events or sometimes war, most people wouldnt want to use their sword since it can easily damaged in the process and if your going to war, your would have another weapon like a warhammer which could deal devestating blows to enemies in armor or a pick which was a pickaxe but smaller
No, harnishfechten applied to all manner of armored combat in european history not just sword and if you look at the manual fighting with a poleaxe, spear, dagger, or just wrestling in armor do applied to the term harnishfechten.
I feel like video games could account for this fairly easy via a grapple mechanic.
Example: Strike an armored opponent cleanly to "Stun" - said opponent can now be grabbed. Assuming you have a sword, you'll execute one of the armored fighting techniques.
In that same scenario vs an unarmored opponent, the clean strike would've done actual damage.
My thoughts 🫤
Yeah they could just Let you normaly attack Armored fighters but not dealing any damage (or maybe a super small concussion damage that would never kill) and obvioulsly not drawing any blood, and if trough this you overcome either their stamina and pose or just submit them then you can acces a pin point attac to joint
We who are about to die implements armor pretty well, just you can't change technique for that stuff so you have to move your character so your weapon hits exactly where the open spot in the armor is
Sekiro did this exact thing. In Sekiro you only have access to bladed weapons and about halfway through the game you meet an enemy called Armored Warrior. As you might expect, he’s fully clad in advanced late medieval plate armor. Being that your katana can’t cut through it, you instead have to stun him then kick him off a bridge. Pretty unique kill!
I love how these techniques all have german names. It shows that our knights were good enough for history to remember them and their techniques. And even in their language. For us germans this is one of the greatest honors we could be awarded with. Being remembered in history for eternity, not for atrocities like most people do, but for the rest of our outstanding history, one of the most successful warrior nations to ever exist.❤🇩🇪
These techniques may be of the german peoples, but they are not of the German State. Most of them are from the days of the so called Holy Roman Empire.
@@Caseyuptobat the holy roman empire was a big empire of many little german states. The true german empire emerged first 1871. But that doesn't make the techniques less german, since we don't define by borders, we are a culture nation, meaning that everything and body speaking the language and living our culture was one of us. So technically it still is a german technique. Even though i definetely know what you mean.
The thing is this channel just happens to specialize in the German tradition of HEMA
There are Dutch, Italian, and English Traditions as well
@@Kingdomkey123678 i did not know. But i know now. Thanks a lot👍
Bro you brought a lot to world history, even through the atrocities, a lot was learned from those World wars if they never happened we probably wouldn't have all the rules and peace we have nowadays.
People forget history and tend to repeat the same mistakes and your country left such an impression that it'll be hard to forget.
So don't let other countries that also committed many war crimes to tell you that you should be ashamed for your past mistakes.
It looks less like they are using the sword as a dagger or polearm, and more like they are using the sword as a crowbar.
Whether you have armor or not, the bonking stick is going to hurt.
We're wearing protection because swords hurt.
Honestly harnisfechten is just wrestling with swords half the time and I think that's amazing
Wow this is actually the first time I notice that the way armored knights use swords in videogames and movies makes no sense.
In movies they often just clash swords, they don't actually fight. There's no need to go for the sword when you often have no resistance and could go straight to the throat in lots of scenes
Unarmored: "Oh ho ho, dodge and weave, I shall parry and riposte with elegance"
Armored: "GRAAAAAAAHHHHHH, IF I PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE ENOUGH TIMES, YOU"ll GO DOWN EVENTUALLY"
Civilian clothes back then weren’t assassins creed ezio cosplay 😂
People mistakenly assume that plate armor was phased out due to advancements in firearms technology.
It was in fact due to the invention of the can opener.
You cannot cut through armor?
APPEASE THE SWORD SPIRIT!
As somebody going into game design, I greatly appreciate this information. I tend to use lighter armored characters, so the standard practice is generally enough, but it’s good to know that heavily armored characters should fight differently. It makes logical sense, just never put it together myself
With the evolution of weapons comes the evolution of armor. And vice versa.
Although I know that all, being in Bloßfechten for almost 9 years and a Referee for one and a half, interested in everything this sport and history has to offer, I am very glad you do what you do to explain what we actually do apart from all the popular misconceptions swarming around out there.
Bloßfechten.
bloß = naked (in normal modern German it usually means "just", "merely" or "only" as in "I am just going around the corner", but the "naked" meaning is still used sometimes and it is in this case)
fechten = fencing
bloßfechten = naked fencing -> fencing without armour -> unarmoured sword fighting
Harnishfechten -> Harnischfechten.
Harnisch = harness (the armour kind, not the kinky kind)
fechten = fencing
Harnishfechten = armoured fencing -> armoured sword fighting.
Well the thing with most fantasy media is that A. Bloɓfechten is generally easier to make look flashy and easier to read in video games and B. Something along the lines of a pole arm fight in close quarters is not what anyone thinks about when someone mentions sword combat
The two knights fighting in armor sound kinda like someone shaking a basket of spoons.
A far cry from the sound design of modern media, eh?
People who imagine armored combat, finding out that sword was a secondary weapon: 😧😨
Man those judges are fearless.
yeah, that's when you get the abominations of armored combat swords that have spiked hand guards and pommels.
Also, pommel and crossguard strikes! Not much reason to do that against an unarmored attacker when you could simply slice them, but a pommel strike to the head is gonna hurt, helmet or not
Fun fact in those times if you were wearing full play armor on the battlefield, you would probably be one of the very few because you’re considered a fucking tank
Another point you would have a horse killing people for you and lances. So you wouldn't need to duel in first place.
dude...for real... I wanna walk around IRL / work / grocery shopping wearing what you wearing. The drip is real
Kingdom come deliveranca actually shows you that a sword is useless against armoured parts and that a mace or warhammer is way better
What kingdom come showed me is that all issues you may face must be defeated using a massive cocktail of homemade stimulants and performance enhancing drugs.
"civilian clothes"
AND HERE COMES THE BRUISER WITH A STEEL CHAIR
You're not wearing civilian clothes. You're in cosplay. But I understand.
The guys in metal armor are just punching each other 😂
Buhurt always seems to go in about 1 minute a regular sword fight to punching the shit out of each other until inevitably someone gets stabbed in the armpit
Armored combat always looks brutal. Thanks for the videos and information, very interesting and educational 👍
Whoa! now you need to upload your fights too. Seeing your fast paced combat is way better than watching pre choreographed fights in movies.
Note: Please?
I have tons of my fights! Go check out my long form videos
This is why I love your channel
"Blozfecten" As a German, this hurts.
And then there is buhurt, where you just beat the crap out of each other in armor.
Love the proper comparison for once
Ik moves can try to do better with their knight fights but video games have to cut corners tho u could probably make a realistic plate armor fighting game but that game probably have to be only fighting and not exploring around
Vermintide 2 does a pretty good job considering the gameplay involves killing hundreds of man-sized rats per minute. Swords and rapiers tend to bounce off armored opponents unless you hit them with a piercing attack or in a weak point like the head/neck while hammers, axes, crowbills ect. cleave through armor much easier. Also blocking is pretty realistic from what I can tell with the animations showing the characters actually deflecting each incoming blow rather than just having them stand in a "block stance" while attacks bounce off of them.
Real Harnishfechten is the scariest thing you'll see
Love your channel
"Caved in his breastplate... GODS I was strong then!"
Now that I see it, I love knight combat style. It looks kinda brute but it's also fast and epic
I have to say: After a certain amount of sword wrestling and angle searching, wouldn't clocking the other guy with a knee or elbow be more fruitful?
Yes, which is why it happens after about a minute of trying to mess around with the swords.
Hey, I know the armored combat guys. OKC has an amazing western martial arts scene.
They also used two different styles of swords for the 2 different fightingstyles
So, not too far from me, there's a little studio called barbarian academy, there people train with medieval swords and armor for fighting competitions, well during the weekends they allow people to come in and have a demo fight against a professional, a 30 second to 1 Min bout for 1 round, and boy, they rung my bell in the first 20 seconds, I was on my back feeling like a fat turtle, I did not want to get up.
Lovely people tho, and very fun conversationalist
The difference in fighting is like watching boxing vs MMA
Armored combat didn't use swords a whole lot. Yeah obviously as he showed they would do that, but a lot of the time to counter armor they'd be using a Mace, or an Axe.
It's all about hammers when armour.is involved.
Mordhau that shit and have a great time (I think you've covered the technique in previous videos) It's one of my favorite sword moves just because of how scuffed it is conceptually. Grabbing the sword by the blade and using the hand guard as a warhammer is so goofy to me but it's a really effective technique
I feel like if you do a spin attack the force might allow you to penetrate the armor and kill your opponent with one swing, kinda like in the witcher..
YOU would make an excellent Lightsaber instructor.
I feel as though I should say f it and just use my gauntlets in armored combat.
"Civilian clothes"
Armored fighting is the most dangerous and violent hobby someone could pick up, but damn would it be the most fun too
With that full body armor combat youre probably better off with either small daggers or a mace. Using the sword like that defeats the purpose of using a sword
The amount of german surprises me actually more than the short itself xD
Also armored combat: TRY PARRY THIS HAMMER FUCKING TIN CAN
ALL GLORY TO THE WARHAMMER.
As a dark souls player all I say is heresy one mighty swing of my 10 foot long sword will crush even the most heavily armored foe. What would I ever need technique for?
Those were 'pick up', not "civilian" clothes even back in the day;-)
Pro tip just carry a mace to take on opponents in plate armor
Yeah hopefully most people understand that armor exists to stop weapons. Why would anyone go to the trouble of forging a whole suit of armor if a sword can just cut through it? Obviously have to aim for joints and gaps to get a sword in
Then there is buhurt. Just chaos and bashing in full harness.
It translates to "shirt fighting"
i like how the german words just seem to say "harness fighting" and "blouse fighting"
Harness is correct, but the other word means "Bare/naked". Bluse is German for blouse :)
Getting repeatedly bopped in the helmet seems like it's gonna make you deaf, give you CTE, or both.
That fit clean. Giving hella assassin's creed vibes just through an exaggerated long open hood on and boom. Perfect.
Bloßfletchen is pronounced closer to "Bloes fletchen" than "Blahs fletchin"
I'm tired of seeing armored sword combat (on foot) on movies where they fight like they have no armor and even the swords cut through armor like butter to the point of going through the person wearing armor, I mean wtf. That why when I see that happens, I quit the movie
Suddenly just decking someone with your gauntleted fist doesn't seen so unreasonable anymore.
Sword
So Kingdom Come: Deliverance got it right. Most sword techniques are useless against heavily armored opponents, but blunt strikes and going for the openings is effective.
So how would an Armored fighter vs an Unarmored fighter look like?
Who would be using what style against whom? Do you fight using the style to take advantage of your opponents weakness, or do you fight based on your weakness?
ya reverse grip isnt enough. you need to be strong enough to wield clouds buster sword 1 handed like a rapier to put enough oomph behind the swing. Even then you might need to assume baseball bat stance.
oh goodness that handsom outfit
Imagine seeing someone carrying a concealed long sword irl and they have a disagreement with someone so they pull out the sword in like a McDonald’s or smth 😂
In Anime and Cartoons and Games. You can wear armor, but my weapon will cut through it like a hot knife through butter or cheese. And this has been ingrained in me. I'm now confused. With so many types of weapons, and armor and the materials they're made of. I can't tell which is strong or not.