After she became a nun, and he a monk, they still wrote to one another. I remember she mentioned having lustful thoughts about him still, and asked for advice in overcoming this problem. His letters I found to be comparatively dry and disinterested.
He already got to hit it so he like every other man was bored. Typical shallow things. Edit: I hope you’re all proud of yourselves jumping to make excuses for a groomer. Castration does not eliminate sexual desire altogether and has no effect on true love. If red pillers are so inaccurate, why aren’t y’all challenging them? It’s dead quiet when they say something mean but when I say something practical y’all jump to defend their honor lmao.
@@thaloblue Or maybe being castrated and stripped might have affected him. Men's mental health is real. Your comment is weird sincerely a woman who doesn't downplay Men's experiences
@@thalobluefound the Misandrist Edit: They edited out their sexist comment. The last sentence ranted about how all men are garbage and have negative character traits.
exactly! i remember the scene in the movie when mary ( kirsten dunst ) is reciting the poem to Dr Howard ( Tom wilkinson ) i liked the poem and later searched about it and found its origin and subliminal connection with movie.
I think one of the heartbreaking parts about this is that Heloise was incredibly intelligent. She was skilled in reading and writing (and most likely speaking) multiple languages! The problem came in that she was a young girl who was promised the world by a man who was arrogant and fairly self-absorbed. Abelard himself was considered a ‘rockstar’ amongst scholars, but it does not change how he took advantage of someone who was young and promising. If anyone is more curious about them, please read the letters they sent to each other. Heloise’s letters are amazing and impactful! You could tell she had a wondrous mind and a great heart for words.
In that Abelard was a theologian and Heloise was learning theology I don't see a negative. They devoted their life to the church, which was what their studies were about. Women had separate but still extremely important roles in the church, it was one of the few paths available to women who wanted advanced education.
I don't really see it as taking advantage of her when he clearly cared enough about her to marry her, provide for her while she was pregnant, and continue to write to her even after he was forcibly castrated simply for loving her. Large age gaps were common in this period and females were considered of eligible age the moment they had their first cycle, as early as 11 years old. Childhood as we know it didn't exist until the 1700s or so. Children were treated as adults and taught as if they were. Just look at children's stories for the time. They didn't think the way they spoke needed to be corrected in front of children or that children needed special care from adults. So her being 16 was considered near spinster age. She should've been married and with a kid already.
I love that she was talented, but am also curious what she could have achieved for being a smart lady back in the days. Would she have been given roles other than being wedded to a wealthy aristocrat or so thanks to her talent?
@@The_Bean_Machine_ you’re really just saying stuff wow. In medieval ages, even though marriage was legal from age 13 (12 for girls and 14 for boys according to religious law), that doesn’t mean people were actually marrying 13 year olds. The average age for marriage was like 20 for women and 25 for men. The only people who were marrying 13 year olds were royalty and aristocracy because their marriages were political, and even then they wouldn’t consummate the union until far later because everyone already thought it was really weird to be into children. But the average person didn’t do that, not saying they married for love but they didn’t marry quite as young as you think
I think one of the more intriguing parts is that it's probably all fictional. The authenticity has long been debated and through language algorithms we found evidence that the letters might've entirely been written by Abélard, since it's all his writing style. PS: source: Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University).
I feel like people often forget that she was around 16 years old and that Abelard was in his thirties, I’m not trying to bash him or anything like that but it seems to me that she might have been too vulnerable and young to realize exactly what she doing. Again I respect this story and then but it does seem suspicious when you remember that Abelard was in his thirties and she was ~16
You are attempting to relate her mentality and maturity to the girls/women of today when that simply is not case. It was common for girls to wed that young. Queen Charlotte was 17, Isabelle of an gouleme 13, and so on
@@Pandagurl218 it was common because they had little rights and were still naive…It was common for a reason. You’re attempting to defend the predatoral “norms” of hundreds of years ago. The brain development is the exact same and hasn’t changed. Evolution is so much slower than that. There’s no difference of maturity in the frontal cortex. Just because my ancestors rolled heads down a temple for years doesn’t mean it’s ok to me.
@@Pandagurl218 even though they were married young, they weren’t supposed to consummate the marriage until the bride was at least 17-19. even back then, people knew that getting pregnant too young was very dangerous and often killed or injured the mother (and the baby, but surprisingly they cared more about the mom).
Abelard convinced the uncle to let him stay at his home, in order to really help her. Her uncle wanted her to have the best education and really cared for her. The teacher, Abelard, ended up r@ping her when they were alone, she didn’t want it, and she was 15-17 and he was in his late 30s. The uncle was distraught and felt betrayed, so he wanted to avenge his niece, who was like a daughter to him. Abelard manipulated his 15-17 yr old victim to run away with him and marry him. Abelard remained very selfish and cold towards her and would treat her horribly. The uncle was just mad that the man he trusted, ruined the life of his niece-almost daughter. Abelard is the villain, the uncle was just trying to protect his niece, and she was just a victim. This is not a love story, it’s a sa story.
It wasn't rape, nor was it unusual for a teen to fall in love with a way older man. In fact, my friends from h.s. in the 80's all dated older men, who were 25 or older. My very serious b'friend was 32 while I was 16. Not much different. I wasn't groomed. We all knew hs boys are immature. We wanted men, who could drive and had jobs, just like we did. Boys in h.s. didn't work that much, because they were on sports teams. They always were broke.
@@Ninjanimegamer girl,,, no,, no just no. That’s not normal to date someone in their thirties while you’re in high school 😨 it’s not a reflection of the teens wants but a reflection of the man in his 30’s wants, a literal teenager. Gross. Teen boys are immature and teen girls are just as immature as well, a grown ass man dating a 16 year old is a predator
@@Ninjanimegamer That's still wrong you know. Even from back in the day. Please don't excuse what older men did. Some people might agree with you but most people would definitely disagree.
Lmao I knew it was gonna be Héloïse et Abélard from the furst caption 😂 She was an absolutely brilliant student of his and the two kept a correspondance until their death. They were two of the most brilliant minds of their times.
@@dominicguye8058 😂 I knew someone was going to say it. What I mean is while most know the line of the poetry, few knew about the life of the person who wrote it.
@@lupus3402 that's what I can remember briefly from the old episode on the Stuff You Missed In History Class podcast. It's from a few years ago at this point.
@@naediggs4816 What's even more a shame is that the majority of people don't know that these letters are probably all fictional. The authenticity has long been debated. Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University), through language algorithms, found that Abélard probably wrote all the letters himself (it's all his writing style). Language algorithms are pretty amazing. They've even unmasked J.K. Rowling as the actual author of "A Cuckoo's Calling", which was originally published under the alias of Robert Gailbraith.
@@ewoudalliet1734 phenomenal, sounds like forensic literature is a growing field! I hope we can find out way more, because I'm sick of the "mEn bUiLt ThE wOrLd" and "woven never contributed" bull crap certain detractors like to use to demean women in society.
@@naediggs4816 I agree. Much of the world around us was built by men (in part due to the way society was organized), but it'd be such a shame to ignore the fact that women did, in fact, contribute a lot too. And sadly that's often also done out of the mere fact that they are women. From the top of my head: Kassia, Hildegard Von Bingen, Francesca Caccini, Sappho, Hypatia, Olympe de Gouges, Marie Curie (although I think this is a bit of a reversed case, as her husband is too often forgotten), Jane Austen... (I'm deliberately avoiding monarchy and such). And these were mostly people lucky enough to be born into sufficient wealth; they don't represent the life and achievements of the average human... which, in general, are no less impressive. It's a difficult challenge to not see how women contribute(d). Anyhow, I should also say I'm not a huge fan of focussing on whether men or women did this or that. I think it's too divisive and that's a shame: despite a couple of (slight) differences, we're all just humans.
I knew who it was about even before you said it. And I know this is considered a famous "love story", but after reading a book about their entire story you'll know how awful it really was. She was in love with him till the end, he only wanted her untill he was castrated. She didn't care about sex, she wanted to stay with him regardless. But he asked her to become a nun so he could go back to his life, even tho she never wanted to become one, he was selfish and became cold with her. He definitely didn't deserve her, if it wasn't for him she would've had a brilliant future
Try looking at it from his pov they both feel in love, the we're secretly lovers, she inevitably became pregnant, he sheltered her in his home till the child was born, they secretly got married, her uncle sent men to castrate him in his own home, he became a monk, she also became a nun and they still wrote to each other. It's understandly if he was a bit cold after all her uncle did have him castrated but did he cut all ties with her. And if he wanted to return to his former life why would he still remain a monk while she became a nun as well? The beautiful thing about reading a story written by another person is that they get to tell it from their own perspective which isn't necessarily the truth now is it. It's like those modern retelling of historic characters, how movies twist famous historic characters to make more drama.
@@gamemongers4215 he didn't shelter her, he was hiding her to escape punishment for what he did. And he married her for that as well to have an explanation if someone asks about their child. And he groomed her. He was her teacher. No excuses for him.
@@ana-nimHe didn't groom her. 16 and a 30 year old was normal back then, and dating a teacher is still normal in several cultures to this day. Power dynamics were different back then than they are now in a western country in 2024.
Someone mentioned she was 16 and he was 30, and the comment section immediately argued ‘it was a different time.’ I just wanna chip in & add that even back then, it was known girls shouldnt get pregnant so young. Most marriages back then actually happened when they were in their mid 20s at least. Saying that the predatory relationship between a 16 year old and 30 something was common back then is blatant misinformation. Theres youtube videos on this subject.
Thank you, the misinformed people spreading that these wide age gap relationships were normal and accepted for this time period are so annoying. The uncle was rightfully horrified to find out the middle aged man he left in charge of his niece's education took advantage of her. It isnt like modern teens of today suddenly became less mentally and physically mature, teens all throughout human history have always been less capable of handling adult situations. Its only now we have the science to show the true differences in mental development between teens and adults.
"Very little is known about Astrolabe (named after a navigational instrument), the son of Héloïse and Abelard, after his birth. He is never mentioned by Héloïse in her letters to Abelard, and Abelard's only reference to him outside of his History of my Calamities (Historia Calamitatum) is in the verses of advice he wrote to him (the Carmen ad Astralabium), probably dating from 1135. He is mentioned only once in a letter by Peter the Venerable, the abbot of the Benedictine abbey of Cluny, who wrote to Héloïse: ''I will gladly do my best to obtain a prebend {stipend} in one of the great churches for your Astrolabe, who is also ours for your sake.'' The date of Astrolabe's death (but not the year) is recorded in an entry at his mother's abbey, the Paraclete, suggesting that he remained there during most of his life"
Fun fact: There has been a debate about the authenticity of the letters for quite a long time. Pretty recently, through language algorithms, Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University) found that the writing style of all the letters indicated that Abélard was the only one writing them and thus the story is probably fictional. Language algorithms are pretty amazing (and scary). They've even managed to unmask J.K. Rowling as the author of "A Cuckoo's Calling", which she published under the alias of Robert Gailbraith (as she wished to remain anonymous).
There are rules against romance in the workplace, school, any other professional setting (cashier waiter etc), 2nd/3rd cousins and so on. Nobody can get with anyone like that.
The teacher/student relationship was so common, and so gross. Just old men taking advantage of young, impressionable teenagers who they were in charge of, yet we romanticize it.
So much life happened in complete stories among so many people long before I was ever born. My personal world seems so small, and the world outside of it so large. This is my favorite YT channel.
She didn't want to marry him, she reiterates this repeatedly in her writings: it was her uncle who forced them to avoid the scandal. After the castration, Abelard became a monk only for a short time, only to appease the gossips, but then he returned to teach at universities and manage his possessions in the center of France as if nothing had happened. Heloise took the vows because Abelard asked her: she was a controversial figure for him and getting her into the convent was the best option. In the epistolary (set of letters), you read the constant discomfort that she feels for this decision, and at the same time the indifference that he feels: she, for him, was just a quickie gone wrong. He could lead his academic life without any problems, while she was forced to pay for a wedding she didn’t even want... and their son, Astrolabe, was taken care of by relatives. Stop romanticize a story that has nothing romantic at all.
I doubt how she can be a nun since they would test her for physical virginity signs and would not grant her the gear or dress or permissio for becoming a nun
Oh man some of the commenters would not like to see this…but I understand and feel this for real based on my own modern womanly experiences. I seen a comment about how this letter showed he was bored with her and just moved on like men do..and then others called that commenter a misandrist…some times it’s hard not to be 😢😅
right this is abt a 16 yr old girl getting groomed and raped by her 30 yr old teacher but ofc everyone is romanticizing it as if they were just "two lovers kept apart😢!"
Well becoming a monk/nun wasn’t so bad. You could draw, and garden and make beer. You felt very altrusitic. You weren’t near sick people or childbirth. Sounds like an introverts perfect situation.
It's so interesting who is being portrayed in red in each depiction. The first being the teacher who knew better and started the romance... while the pupil sits in a light blue glowing dress signifying purity. Next, the woman who was defiled by him is in red. In the third, the man again who was considered to be evil at that point by her uncle is in red, while she sits in a blue dress on a red chair, saying to me that her uncle believed that she was innocent and had been swept up by him into this situation. Lastly, the man is not only in red but has red hair... telling me that his deeds run so deep within him that they've become a part of him, while he works for penance and to be forgiven. She, on the other hand, can never be touched again.
It's amazing how it's never been my thing to look at great works of art until ur posts now m finding myself looking for more information about certain paintings. Im now going to read her letters. Thanks
Woah! That’s cool! Yesterday, I was thinking about the song “Rip Tide” while waiting for an Uber, and then the Uber came, and “Rip Tide” was playing through the speakers.
@@ouroboricscribe3201that’s about how things are today! 😒🙄 16 is the legal age in my state TODAY, that you can date whoever you like,regardless of their age..we are still living in those “times”.
I mean unless she stated that it was an abusive situation, I would probably believe that it was mutual attraction relationship. I wouldn’t want my daughter dating a man twice her age but I’ve seen it first hand in life over and over. I’m a pretty young guy in my early 20s and I’ve literally had 18 year old women tell me I’m too young for them and they don’t date men in their 20s. That preference doesn’t make sense to me but it doesn’t have to. I’m not the one with the preference🤷🏻♂️
I mean that’s pretty unfair to judge what was normal during that day by todays societal standards. It’s called presentism if you’re wondering and historians find it to be a huge disservice to understanding history
@leroyjenkins2639 I mean war and slavery were also super common back then and I will also say, with my full chest, that it was bad. Would you also defend either of those with the same argument?
Hola, Mae, miro tus videos desde hace ya un tiempo y estoy fascinada con cómo me hiciste recordar mi pasión por la historia del arte. Ésta ocasión sólo quería decirte que eres una mujer increíblemente hermosa, me recuerdas a cada diosa griega cuya estatua miraba embelesada de niña. Me alegra que existas, adoraría tener en la vida real a una amiga como tú.
So terribly sad, how could a young girl’s life be so ruined while she had a promising future being bright and talented, I would wish only the best for her 😭😭😭
@@keerthikeshkar Yeah. Had a stipend, was probably educated, didn't have to do much hard labor, probably spoke to other educated people, had access to information, was likely respected, etc. He might have had a really comfy life relatively speaking.
What I find so fascinating is that Heloise begged to be Abelard’s mistress so that his career wouldn’t be ruined by marriage (he might have lost his job lecturing/been seen as unqualified to teach unmarried clergymen.) ~ Her uncle, who avenged her, wished that she had married up in the world instead of this poor tutor he had hired. Though both husband and wife wanted to stay together, Abelard got the “hint” ⚒️🔪that he was a poor scholar who needed to work for the well being of their son for the rest of his life, so became a monk. The only other thing Heloise could do was become a nun, though she wished her life was different. - Heloise even begged to be a mistress again rather than a nun - no chance of getting pregnant a second time, anyhow. Abelard finally was thinking with his brain and realized that was a silly idea considering his condition and stake in life. Perhaps he regretted his actions, knowing he had stolen a girl, all under her guardian’s watch. ~ At least she had letters in which she could write her feelings, and he could talk to her about their intellectual interests even after this forced/voluntary parting. ~ Her life was ruined and she couldn’t marry someone who’d give her a stable life outside of the nunnery, but she could still make the best of her life. She became the abbess (CEO) of Paraclete and wrote quite a bit of music and poetry and guidance for those entering the monastic life. 🤘 That’s way better than mistress, in my opinion, from what was available in that time period, and sometimes better than being a wife (as dying in childbirth was likelier). She accomplished all of this despite her childhood.
Love like this puts a lump in my throat. Its so bittersweet with the odds against them, but they still stayed so in love regardless of the situations. Man... I love love.
I just know that....if it is morally wrong then IT IS WRONG any way.... don't fool yourself, it will always be called wrong and what hurt the most is that they lost a bright student she could've done something great and worthwhile instead of letting herself involved in such things.😢
Please i wish i can learn this kind of stuff too , i am so bored with shorts and movies where can i start to build interest to this kinda things Please
Read books or listen to audiobooks regarding topics that interest you. Shorts and movies are mainly temporary entertainment, yet not enough to sustain a curious mind for a lifetime. ✌️😊
Please don't hold people from the 12th century to modern day standards. Back then she'd have been considered a woman ripe for marriage and would have been married of a man of similar age before she even turned 20.
@@gamemongers4215 it's always so funny to see so many people get this "fact" wrong. Yes,girls were married off at an early age but they were married to boys their ages or a little older than them. There's no evidence of girls marrying grown ass 30 year old men,let alone a teacher with no social status.
@@gamemongers4215 biologically thats false, I think we can all admit that back then people didn't know anything about women bodies. EVEN NOW they are still finding sh1t out.
Read about this in college. The book Heloise and Abelard. A lot of the transcript came from his own writings and he talked about the castration in how he didn’t regret the love affair and would do it again if even if the outcome were the same. Nuts.
@@Starry-ph6yxThat didn't matter to most people, infact that was preferred. Older men often had more wealth, power and prestige in the community and would have, in theory, been able to take care of their daughters
@@alleycat8693 actually when you look backtrack some story you’ll come to notice that some parents and family members weren’t taht happy p*mping their underage daughters
I thought about the story between Heloise and Abelard again after re-listening to a Dave Matthew’s Band song, “The Space Between”. They named their child, Astrolabe, which was a medieval instrument used to measure the distance between stars. Hence, the space between. After what I learned about their story, I think the uncle was almost entirely to blame. How was he really “protecting her” after the fact? So what if they became lovers and she got pregnant? He married her, and they had a healthy child together. He took responsibility. Yes, she was a teenager and he was in his 30s, which is over the top (less so for the time), but it’s not like she was an average teenager. She was as brilliant as he was. Heloise was now married to a successful, passionate, and talented scholar like herself. They were a good match, if not the ideal match. How would that have “ruined her life”, like some people in the comments are suggesting? She still had a bright, if not brighter future ahead of her, and so did he. It’s actually anti-feminist to assume that once a woman has a child, her mind is somehow crippled and she can’t compete in the sphere of intellect dominated by men anymore. That’s the real idealogical culprit that the uncle was harboring, here. I hear that giving birth opens up an even deeper sphere of a woman’s mind. In general, we naturally have more connections between both hemispheres of our brains compared to men’s brains, which makes us adept non-dualistic thinkers and abstract problem solvers. Her uncle ruined both of their lives by barbarically castrating Abelard. It’s also not true that some people in the comments were saying that he raped her. Really? Then why would she write him beautiful love letters for the rest of her life? He wrote her, as well, but you really can’t blame him for how dry his letters to her were, in comparison. You can imagine that he was a totally broken man after his castration, even though he eventually resumed his teaching career. That was probably the only joy left in his life. Abelard must have cast his resentment unfairly onto Heloise, when it should have been entirely on her uncle. That understandably deep resentment at what was done to him showed itself when Abelard encouraged Heloise to join a convent. She didn’t want to be there. She was miserable. In one letter, she wrote Abelard that she had sexual thoughts about him and asked him for advice about what to do about it. You see, that was a manifestation of her resentment towards Abelard for locking her away like he did. Resentment because she knew he was castrated, and she’s digging that knife into him expressing her carnal thoughts with her intact reproductive system. It was still Heloise’s choice to join the convent, but she was an impressionable teenager horrified by the situation, so she did what the men in her life suggested she do. She was truly in love with Abelard for the rest of her life, and I think that Abelard was also truly in love with Eloise until her uncle stepped in and destroyed both of their lives. Heloise got a terrible deal. She didn’t even get to raise her own child, but at least she wasn’t physically mutilated, which I think is even worse. I mean, we do it to our pets, but I digress. But yes, Abelard also takes some serious heat for not waiting until she was a bit older or finished being his student to ask for her hand in marriage. He could have made his intentions clear to her without giving into the desire for sex. She was too young and he was in a position of power over her, and he was wrong to just let it happen. At the same time, sometimes things happen when there’s that much passion between two people. Intellectual passion mixed with deep emotional and physical passion is like a lit match on gasoline. That being said, had the uncle not been a total f*cking psycho, they could have both very well had a happy and fruitful marriage and career ahead of them. They were a good match for each other.
Grooming has been going on for a LONG time. Poor girl. He probably thought "well I'll just get her pregnant. Then we HAVE to get married and BOOM rich"
Yep, there’s arguments among historians regarding her ‘willingness’. But in a letter he had written years later, Abelard reminded her of his abusive behavior: “Even when you were unwilling, resisted to the utmost of your power and tried to dissuade, as yours was the weaker nature, I often forced you to consent with threats and blows” kinda speaks for itself tbh
@@KatharoniThe uncle agreed to the marriage and then betrayed them. The uncle is the only 100% confirmed bad actor here, hence why his goons went to jail and he was shunned from public life
It’s still like that TODAY. 16 is the legal age in my state you can start dating any age you Like. Still gross, but the uncle isn’t right either, because HE wanted to hand her off to a rich, arrogant man- the uncle did NOT care about her age! Only that it was not who HE “assigned” her to be with! You think he cared about her??? 😂
There is a story that at the end of her life Heloise asked to be buried with Abelard who had passed many years before her. when they opened the tomb however, he opened his arms to accept her into his embrace so they could be together for the rest of time.
Yall talking about an age gap. Let's not forget that people did not live very long back then so when you dying at the ripe of 25- about 33 there was not much waiting to 30 to get married and start a family. If they both loved and consented in their time period the issues only lie with us and our privilege to live in a time where we can mature and wait till we're good and ready to start our lives.
That's not really true. If you survived past 15 you had a good chance of living to 60. The high mortality of kids and babies is what skewed the average age of death downward.
People didn’t actually die as young as that, that’s just the average age because the number was brought down by the high levels of infant mortality. If you made it past childhood it wasn’t uncommon to live until 60.
Yeah the biggest issue here is that he abused his influence and her family (who had the ultimate authority) was not consulted and did not approve. He ended up ruining all three of their lives.
@@jenniferbee1500No, her family who felt they gad the ultimate authority, but we recognize now as being deeply abusive and fundamentally toxic (something known at that time, hence why they hid the relationship). Those are different things.
"A teacher and a pupil, what could go wrong?"
Everything. Everything could go wrong.
😂😂
Damn........81likes!
Yeah
😂
macron and brigitte: hold our 🍻🍻
😂😂😂
They named their son Astrolabe, a medieval instrument used to measure the distance between stars.
The guy was wacko n perv
Exotic
I’ll name my son Compound-light- microscope, a modern instrument used to observe things too small for the eye to see
So cute omg
Comparable to Elon Musk naming his son something like XYZ 💀
After she became a nun, and he a monk, they still wrote to one another. I remember she mentioned having lustful thoughts about him still, and asked for advice in overcoming this problem. His letters I found to be comparatively dry and disinterested.
Bro lost his ability to have lustful thoughts after his balls were cut off
Men lost desire after they have been castrated..not only desire, they will lose all their feelings..
He already got to hit it so he like every other man was bored. Typical shallow things.
Edit: I hope you’re all proud of yourselves jumping to make excuses for a groomer. Castration does not eliminate sexual desire altogether and has no effect on true love. If red pillers are so inaccurate, why aren’t y’all challenging them? It’s dead quiet when they say something mean but when I say something practical y’all jump to defend their honor lmao.
@@thaloblue Or maybe being castrated and stripped might have affected him. Men's mental health is real. Your comment is weird sincerely a woman who doesn't downplay Men's experiences
@@thalobluefound the Misandrist
Edit: They edited out their sexist comment. The last sentence ranted about how all men are garbage and have negative character traits.
Not me thinking that she developed a romance with her uncle 😭
i did 2
yuh me too
Same
yup
SAME
there is a poem about this, ‘Eloisa to Abelard’. it’s where the phrase, ‘eternal sunshine of the spotless mind’ comes from!!
Oh, its really interesting!
That’s really interesting, it’s such a unique phrase/movie title. Didn’t know it was based on something from history!
Wow, thank you!
exactly! i remember the scene in the movie when mary ( kirsten dunst ) is reciting the poem to Dr Howard ( Tom wilkinson ) i liked the poem and later searched about it and found its origin and subliminal connection with movie.
I only know it because of Sharpe's Rifles
I think one of the heartbreaking parts about this is that Heloise was incredibly intelligent. She was skilled in reading and writing (and most likely speaking) multiple languages! The problem came in that she was a young girl who was promised the world by a man who was arrogant and fairly self-absorbed. Abelard himself was considered a ‘rockstar’ amongst scholars, but it does not change how he took advantage of someone who was young and promising. If anyone is more curious about them, please read the letters they sent to each other. Heloise’s letters are amazing and impactful! You could tell she had a wondrous mind and a great heart for words.
In that Abelard was a theologian and Heloise was learning theology I don't see a negative. They devoted their life to the church, which was what their studies were about. Women had separate but still extremely important roles in the church, it was one of the few paths available to women who wanted advanced education.
I don't really see it as taking advantage of her when he clearly cared enough about her to marry her, provide for her while she was pregnant, and continue to write to her even after he was forcibly castrated simply for loving her.
Large age gaps were common in this period and females were considered of eligible age the moment they had their first cycle, as early as 11 years old.
Childhood as we know it didn't exist until the 1700s or so. Children were treated as adults and taught as if they were. Just look at children's stories for the time. They didn't think the way they spoke needed to be corrected in front of children or that children needed special care from adults.
So her being 16 was considered near spinster age. She should've been married and with a kid already.
I love that she was talented, but am also curious what she could have achieved for being a smart lady back in the days. Would she have been given roles other than being wedded to a wealthy aristocrat or so thanks to her talent?
@@The_Bean_Machine_ you’re really just saying stuff wow. In medieval ages, even though marriage was legal from age 13 (12 for girls and 14 for boys according to religious law), that doesn’t mean people were actually marrying 13 year olds. The average age for marriage was like 20 for women and 25 for men. The only people who were marrying 13 year olds were royalty and aristocracy because their marriages were political, and even then they wouldn’t consummate the union until far later because everyone already thought it was really weird to be into children. But the average person didn’t do that, not saying they married for love but they didn’t marry quite as young as you think
I think one of the more intriguing parts is that it's probably all fictional. The authenticity has long been debated and through language algorithms we found evidence that the letters might've entirely been written by Abélard, since it's all his writing style.
PS: source: Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University).
Their kid was called Astrolabeous. The equivalent of calling your kid Hubble telescope.
😂😂😂😂
But these machines were magical at the time. God like
so they were Grimes and Musk minus money and status 😅
@@billydiaz7280 ok, the equivalent of calling your kid laser cannon
It's the equivalent of naming your child "Apple Vision."
I feel like people often forget that she was around 16 years old and that Abelard was in his thirties, I’m not trying to bash him or anything like that but it seems to me that she might have been too vulnerable and young to realize exactly what she doing. Again I respect this story and then but it does seem suspicious when you remember that Abelard was in his thirties and she was ~16
You are attempting to relate her mentality and maturity to the girls/women of today when that simply is not case.
It was common for girls to wed that young. Queen Charlotte was 17, Isabelle of an gouleme 13, and so on
Yeah , so that's the normal thing back then , by 16 women were wife materials as per the social norms
@@Pandagurl218 Even if it was common, that doesn't make it right
@@Pandagurl218 it was common because they had little rights and were still naive…It was common for a reason. You’re attempting to defend the predatoral “norms” of hundreds of years ago. The brain development is the exact same and hasn’t changed. Evolution is so much slower than that. There’s no difference of maturity in the frontal cortex. Just because my ancestors rolled heads down a temple for years doesn’t mean it’s ok to me.
@@Pandagurl218 even though they were married young, they weren’t supposed to consummate the marriage until the bride was at least 17-19. even back then, people knew that getting pregnant too young was very dangerous and often killed or injured the mother (and the baby, but surprisingly they cared more about the mom).
Abelard convinced the uncle to let him stay at his home, in order to really help her. Her uncle wanted her to have the best education and really cared for her. The teacher, Abelard, ended up r@ping her when they were alone, she didn’t want it, and she was 15-17 and he was in his late 30s. The uncle was distraught and felt betrayed, so he wanted to avenge his niece, who was like a daughter to him. Abelard manipulated his 15-17 yr old victim to run away with him and marry him. Abelard remained very selfish and cold towards her and would treat her horribly. The uncle was just mad that the man he trusted, ruined the life of his niece-almost daughter. Abelard is the villain, the uncle was just trying to protect his niece, and she was just a victim. This is not a love story, it’s a sa story.
Thank you for this /gen
Knew it.
It wasn't rape, nor was it unusual for a teen to fall in love with a way older man.
In fact, my friends from h.s. in the 80's all dated older men, who were 25 or older. My very serious b'friend was 32 while I was 16. Not much different. I wasn't groomed. We all knew hs boys are immature. We wanted men, who could drive and had jobs, just like we did. Boys in h.s. didn't work that much, because they were on sports teams. They always were broke.
@@Ninjanimegamer girl,,, no,, no just no. That’s not normal to date someone in their thirties while you’re in high school 😨 it’s not a reflection of the teens wants but a reflection of the man in his 30’s wants, a literal teenager. Gross. Teen boys are immature and teen girls are just as immature as well, a grown ass man dating a 16 year old is a predator
@@Ninjanimegamer That's still wrong you know. Even from back in the day. Please don't excuse what older men did. Some people might agree with you but most people would definitely disagree.
Lmao I knew it was gonna be Héloïse et Abélard from the furst caption 😂 She was an absolutely brilliant student of his and the two kept a correspondance until their death. They were two of the most brilliant minds of their times.
"Abdélard" said bro 💀
@@XOXO-eo5vu ??
Were you born yesterday to think non-anglosaxon names are spelled like english names?
Abélard not Abdélard
@@isabelled4871 Never saw it written oops, thanks for pointing it out :D
BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR SON?????!!!!!
All that survive of them is the line *Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind*
A lot more survives of them
@@dominicguye8058 😂 I knew someone was going to say it. What I mean is while most know the line of the poetry, few knew about the life of the person who wrote it.
*Clionk* noice
What happened to their son?
He was raised by her sister.
They had a son, she named him Astrolabe, he was taken from his mother, raised in a monastery and became a bishop.
Forced into the clergy thank you! I wondered… they probably castrated him.
thank you, i was wondering what happened to their son
@@lupus3402 that's what I can remember briefly from the old episode on the Stuff You Missed In History Class podcast. It's from a few years ago at this point.
@@markcorcoran4544 oh, thank you for the recommendation!
Thank you! Nobody else could get past the age difference. Won't somebody think of the children
I learned about them in english class, Éloïse was a very bright woman she apparently even helped her husband to write some of his work.
Very bright young girl you mean lol
It's a shame because the contributions of so many women is hidden away in the works of their husbands 😞
@@naediggs4816
What's even more a shame is that the majority of people don't know that these letters are probably all fictional.
The authenticity has long been debated.
Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University), through language algorithms, found that Abélard probably wrote all the letters himself (it's all his writing style).
Language algorithms are pretty amazing. They've even unmasked J.K. Rowling as the actual author of "A Cuckoo's Calling", which was originally published under the alias of Robert Gailbraith.
@@ewoudalliet1734 phenomenal, sounds like forensic literature is a growing field! I hope we can find out way more, because I'm sick of the "mEn bUiLt ThE wOrLd" and "woven never contributed" bull crap certain detractors like to use to demean women in society.
@@naediggs4816
I agree. Much of the world around us was built by men (in part due to the way society was organized), but it'd be such a shame to ignore the fact that women did, in fact, contribute a lot too. And sadly that's often also done out of the mere fact that they are women.
From the top of my head: Kassia, Hildegard Von Bingen, Francesca Caccini, Sappho, Hypatia, Olympe de Gouges, Marie Curie (although I think this is a bit of a reversed case, as her husband is too often forgotten), Jane Austen... (I'm deliberately avoiding monarchy and such).
And these were mostly people lucky enough to be born into sufficient wealth; they don't represent the life and achievements of the average human... which, in general, are no less impressive.
It's a difficult challenge to not see how women contribute(d).
Anyhow, I should also say I'm not a huge fan of focussing on whether men or women did this or that. I think it's too divisive and that's a shame: despite a couple of (slight) differences, we're all just humans.
I knew who it was about even before you said it. And I know this is considered a famous "love story", but after reading a book about their entire story you'll know how awful it really was. She was in love with him till the end, he only wanted her untill he was castrated. She didn't care about sex, she wanted to stay with him regardless. But he asked her to become a nun so he could go back to his life, even tho she never wanted to become one, he was selfish and became cold with her. He definitely didn't deserve her, if it wasn't for him she would've had a brilliant future
What was the book?
Try looking at it from his pov they both feel in love, the we're secretly lovers, she inevitably became pregnant, he sheltered her in his home till the child was born, they secretly got married, her uncle sent men to castrate him in his own home, he became a monk, she also became a nun and they still wrote to each other. It's understandly if he was a bit cold after all her uncle did have him castrated but did he cut all ties with her. And if he wanted to return to his former life why would he still remain a monk while she became a nun as well? The beautiful thing about reading a story written by another person is that they get to tell it from their own perspective which isn't necessarily the truth now is it. It's like those modern retelling of historic characters, how movies twist famous historic characters to make more drama.
@@gamemongers4215 he didn't shelter her, he was hiding her to escape punishment for what he did. And he married her for that as well to have an explanation if someone asks about their child.
And he groomed her. He was her teacher. No excuses for him.
She did have interest in him sexually. In her letters to him, she mentioned feeling lustful thoughts for him and asked for his advice
@@ana-nimHe didn't groom her. 16 and a 30 year old was normal back then, and dating a teacher is still normal in several cultures to this day. Power dynamics were different back then than they are now in a western country in 2024.
Someone mentioned she was 16 and he was 30, and the comment section immediately argued ‘it was a different time.’ I just wanna chip in & add that even back then, it was known girls shouldnt get pregnant so young. Most marriages back then actually happened when they were in their mid 20s at least. Saying that the predatory relationship between a 16 year old and 30 something was common back then is blatant misinformation. Theres youtube videos on this subject.
Thank you, the misinformed people spreading that these wide age gap relationships were normal and accepted for this time period are so annoying. The uncle was rightfully horrified to find out the middle aged man he left in charge of his niece's education took advantage of her. It isnt like modern teens of today suddenly became less mentally and physically mature, teens all throughout human history have always been less capable of handling adult situations. Its only now we have the science to show the true differences in mental development between teens and adults.
what happened to the child? 😭
"Very little is known about Astrolabe (named after a navigational instrument), the son of Héloïse and Abelard, after his birth. He is never mentioned by Héloïse in her letters to Abelard, and Abelard's only reference to him outside of his History of my Calamities (Historia Calamitatum) is in the verses of advice he wrote to him (the Carmen ad Astralabium), probably dating from 1135. He is mentioned only once in a letter by Peter the Venerable, the abbot of the Benedictine abbey of Cluny, who wrote to Héloïse: ''I will gladly do my best to obtain a prebend {stipend} in one of the great churches for your Astrolabe, who is also ours for your sake.'' The date of Astrolabe's death (but not the year) is recorded in an entry at his mother's abbey, the Paraclete, suggesting that he remained there during most of his life"
@@lydiadmoore20severely underrated comment. Very informative!
@@lydiadmoore20 omg thank you for this!! it was very kind of you to provide such a detailed answer to my question :)
That's what I wanted to know too :(
Legit what I was wondering 😭
Fun fact:
There has been a debate about the authenticity of the letters for quite a long time. Pretty recently, through language algorithms, Jeroen De Gussem (Ghent University) found that the writing style of all the letters indicated that Abélard was the only one writing them and thus the story is probably fictional.
Language algorithms are pretty amazing (and scary). They've even managed to unmask J.K. Rowling as the author of "A Cuckoo's Calling", which she published under the alias of Robert Gailbraith (as she wished to remain anonymous).
Wait so dude was writing to himself?
@@Figfizz Well, if so, he was telling a story through epistolary writing (thus using letter correspondence to tell a story).
Oh that's fascinating!!
How reliable are such algorithms? He was her teacher, so it seems reasonable that their writing styles are quite similar.
We might be looking at the first parasocial stalker.
As a teacher I can say a moral code/suggestion is to not develop romance with your students. 15, 18 or 80. Doesn't matter
Or maybe we shouldn't start a "relationship"? Let's keep it strictly teacher and student.
There are rules against romance in the workplace, school, any other professional setting (cashier waiter etc), 2nd/3rd cousins and so on. Nobody can get with anyone like that.
Shut up bro
What about a kayak teacher or personal trainer? Because that happens all the time.
15 is a big difference to 18 and 80. Especially the 80.
The teacher/student relationship was so common, and so gross. Just old men taking advantage of young, impressionable teenagers who they were in charge of, yet we romanticize it.
Not common on the period. Those are more common nowdays. And it sounds like you just wanted to complain about something.
finally! a person of sense!
@@JRBDWDSexual relationships between Tutor and Tutee have always been a thing, going back to Greece ans the overlap between Pedogogues and Pedophiles
@@thomaswillard6267predators enter professions which give them access to the vulnerable.
Women like men of authority.
So much life happened in complete stories among so many people long before I was ever born. My personal world seems so small, and the world outside of it so large. This is my favorite YT channel.
For some reason he looks exactly like the type to do something like this.
She didn't want to marry him, she reiterates this repeatedly in her writings: it was her uncle who forced them to avoid the scandal.
After the castration, Abelard became a monk only for a short time, only to appease the gossips, but then he returned to teach at universities and manage his possessions in the center of France as if nothing had happened.
Heloise took the vows because Abelard asked her: she was a controversial figure for him and getting her into the convent was the best option.
In the epistolary (set of letters), you read the constant discomfort that she feels for this decision, and at the same time the indifference that he feels: she, for him, was just a quickie gone wrong.
He could lead his academic life without any problems, while she was forced to pay for a wedding she didn’t even want... and their son, Astrolabe, was taken care of by relatives.
Stop romanticize a story that has nothing romantic at all.
I doubt how she can be a nun since they would test her for physical virginity signs and would not grant her the gear or dress or permissio for becoming a nun
Oh man some of the commenters would not like to see this…but I understand and feel this for real based on my own modern womanly experiences.
I seen a comment about how this letter showed he was bored with her and just moved on like men do..and then others called that commenter a misandrist…some times it’s hard not to be 😢😅
He was castrated bozo
It is what it is.
I'm with the uncle here, Abelard crossed to many lines.
What Lana Del Rey song about daddy issues meeting predator kinda relationship is this ?
Lolita
The "romanticized pedophilia but it is common so it's okay" type 😭
Frr
@@selosa1773 it just feels like Muslims who excuse Mohammad having sex with a 9 yr old
right this is abt a 16 yr old girl getting groomed and raped by her 30 yr old teacher but ofc everyone is romanticizing it as if they were just "two lovers kept apart😢!"
Well becoming a monk/nun wasn’t so bad. You could draw, and garden and make beer. You felt very altrusitic. You weren’t near sick people or childbirth. Sounds like an introverts perfect situation.
Monks and nuns actually often worked as doctors or herbalists.
35 and 14. The choice of music seems as though you're romanticizing it.
14? Source? Her exact age is unknown and debated
Normal for 99% of history
At those times, such age gaps were normal.. we can't judge the past norms even if they were not acceptable in modern times.
What about the kid?
I remember learning about this in medieval studies at uni. "Letters of abelard and heloise" is a rough read but a great story ❤
It's so interesting who is being portrayed in red in each depiction. The first being the teacher who knew better and started the romance... while the pupil sits in a light blue glowing dress signifying purity. Next, the woman who was defiled by him is in red. In the third, the man again who was considered to be evil at that point by her uncle is in red, while she sits in a blue dress on a red chair, saying to me that her uncle believed that she was innocent and had been swept up by him into this situation. Lastly, the man is not only in red but has red hair... telling me that his deeds run so deep within him that they've become a part of him, while he works for penance and to be forgiven. She, on the other hand, can never be touched again.
Sooo what you trying to say about us red heads, hmmmm???? 🤔 LOL 😂
Very underrated comment! Should be pinned!
Are you my English teacher
My husband with a master's in English Literature gives you a nod of approval for this exemplary breakdown of the artist's choice of color. Bravo
Heloise was groomed and the uncle was exacting justice
I read letters of Abelard and Heloise in a philosophy class, and their letters to one another were really something. Really interesting story.
It's amazing how it's never been my thing to look at great works of art until ur posts now m finding myself looking for more information about certain paintings. Im now going to read her letters. Thanks
I‘m not kidding, we literally talked ab this exact story in my history class in uni yesterday!
Woah! That’s cool!
Yesterday, I was thinking about the song “Rip Tide” while waiting for an Uber, and then the Uber came, and “Rip Tide” was playing through the speakers.
There are very essential details missing from this story. As tools here, it seems like a fanciful, innocent love story. It ain't.
What evidence suggests it wasn't
@@bigbeau1758
Their ages 16 and mid 30's
@@ouroboricscribe3201that’s about how things are today! 😒🙄 16 is the legal age in my state TODAY, that you can date whoever you like,regardless of their age..we are still living in those “times”.
I mean unless she stated that it was an abusive situation, I would probably believe that it was mutual attraction relationship. I wouldn’t want my daughter dating a man twice her age but I’ve seen it first hand in life over and over. I’m a pretty young guy in my early 20s and I’ve literally had 18 year old women tell me I’m too young for them and they don’t date men in their 20s. That preference doesn’t make sense to me but it doesn’t have to. I’m not the one with the preference🤷🏻♂️
I mean no u are not young but old for them and even i wouldnt date @@leroyjenkins2639
I will never understand how people can paint such beautiful things!
So he was a groomer? 😂
Yes. She was 16 and he was in his 30s lol
Yes
@@KatharoniOh. Gross. I feel less bad for the guy now
I mean that’s pretty unfair to judge what was normal during that day by todays societal standards. It’s called presentism if you’re wondering and historians find it to be a huge disservice to understanding history
@leroyjenkins2639 I mean war and slavery were also super common back then and I will also say, with my full chest, that it was bad. Would you also defend either of those with the same argument?
Politely, the uncle did a good job defending his niece from a predator
Hola, Mae, miro tus videos desde hace ya un tiempo y estoy fascinada con cómo me hiciste recordar mi pasión por la historia del arte. Ésta ocasión sólo quería decirte que eres una mujer increíblemente hermosa, me recuerdas a cada diosa griega cuya estatua miraba embelesada de niña. Me alegra que existas, adoraría tener en la vida real a una amiga como tú.
So terribly sad, how could a young girl’s life be so ruined while she had a promising future being bright and talented, I would wish only the best for her 😭😭😭
Importance of boundaries 😂
Knowing heartbreak, I feel a new depth of understanding whilst imagining their own anguish. Thank you, for reminding me why I choose to love.
There is nothing other than love ❤
You should do one on Hieronymus Bosch; "The Garden of Earthly Delights."
What about their son ? He became a monk and she became a nun .. 😮
Their son was named Astrolabe and little is known about him. He apparently spent his life in the church, with a stipend, and outlived his father.
@@babsbybend Oh ! Poor child
@@keerthikeshkar He probably had a nice life.
@@wastrelperv Cz he lived in a church?
@@keerthikeshkar Yeah. Had a stipend, was probably educated, didn't have to do much hard labor, probably spoke to other educated people, had access to information, was likely respected, etc. He might have had a really comfy life relatively speaking.
Love all your explanations to the paintings can't wait for more!
What I find so fascinating is that Heloise begged to be Abelard’s mistress so that his career wouldn’t be ruined by marriage (he might have lost his job lecturing/been seen as unqualified to teach unmarried clergymen.)
~
Her uncle, who avenged her, wished that she had married up in the world instead of this poor tutor he had hired. Though both husband and wife wanted to stay together, Abelard got the “hint” ⚒️🔪that he was a poor scholar who needed to work for the well being of their son for the rest of his life, so became a monk. The only other thing Heloise could do was become a nun, though she wished her life was different.
-
Heloise even begged to be a mistress again rather than a nun - no chance of getting pregnant a second time, anyhow. Abelard finally was thinking with his brain and realized that was a silly idea considering his condition and stake in life. Perhaps he regretted his actions, knowing he had stolen a girl, all under her guardian’s watch.
~
At least she had letters in which she could write her feelings, and he could talk to her about their intellectual interests even after this forced/voluntary parting.
~
Her life was ruined and she couldn’t marry someone who’d give her a stable life outside of the nunnery, but she could still make the best of her life. She became the abbess (CEO) of Paraclete and wrote quite a bit of music and poetry and guidance for those entering the monastic life. 🤘 That’s way better than mistress, in my opinion, from what was available in that time period, and sometimes better than being a wife (as dying in childbirth was likelier). She accomplished all of this despite her childhood.
This is not a love story, he basically groomed his minor student
This is not at all romantic. She was a minor and he was in his 30s.
Teacher took advantage of a lovesick girl. Gross
lol, I thought it said at the ends that he became a monk and she a mum 😂
"Now warm in love, now withering in thy bloom, lost in a convent's solitary gloom."
-Heloise and Abelard, by Alexander Pope.
Her dress is soo pretty tho. Like to wear something so elegant 💫
why are you trying to romanticize this? a “secret romance” as if they’re star crossed lovers? tf?
Because they were? They literally had a romance?
@@thomaswillard6267 groomed
@@thomaswillard6267ermmm,,, it was about a young teenage girl and a guy half way through his life…. They also happened to be teacher and student…
@@10zin9Only because because it’s a real story. If it was completely fiction, would be a different story then.
It's cute and all but she was still a teenager when this happened, that's why her uncle was so mad
Her uncle was mad because elite families would marry off female family members to the highest bidders.
It’s a lot more than that 😂 but yeah, probably that too.
@@RealGlowup oh no yeah, I'm aware, that was the only one that came to my mind tho 😅
@@comradfernando4355 🤗🤗🤗💖💖💖
considering what period of time it was I doubt her uncle cared about their age.
Love like this puts a lump in my throat. Its so bittersweet with the odds against them, but they still stayed so in love regardless of the situations. Man... I love love.
her dress is beautiful
Ironically that tragic love story gave Paris the fame of 'city of love'...
What really
Elaborate.
I just know that....if it is morally wrong then IT IS WRONG any way.... don't fool yourself, it will always be called wrong and what hurt the most is that they lost a bright student she could've done something great and worthwhile instead of letting herself involved in such things.😢
I read their letters and heloise’s had such a beautiful mind and way of writing
my first thought was "oh no how old is she"
14 and he was 30 😑
Heloise looks like Prim Everdeen
I watched this on theatre once it was an amazing and emotional performance
What could go wrong? Well, balls.
Please i wish i can learn this kind of stuff too , i am so bored with shorts and movies where can i start to build interest to this kinda things Please
Read books or listen to audiobooks regarding topics that interest you. Shorts and movies are mainly temporary entertainment, yet not enough to sustain a curious mind for a lifetime. ✌️😊
Abelard is the villain, the uncle was just trying to protect his niece, and she was just a victim. This is not a love story, it’s a sa story.
Please don't hold people from the 12th century to modern day standards. Back then she'd have been considered a woman ripe for marriage and would have been married of a man of similar age before she even turned 20.
@@gamemongers4215 it's always so funny to see so many people get this "fact" wrong. Yes,girls were married off at an early age but they were married to boys their ages or a little older than them. There's no evidence of girls marrying grown ass 30 year old men,let alone a teacher with no social status.
Just because that was the case back then doesn’t mean it. It’s right.
@@gamemongers4215 biologically thats false, I think we can all admit that back then people didn't know anything about women bodies. EVEN NOW they are still finding sh1t out.
@@Iheartmefr if it's false why do we have teenage pregnancy. I know the truth is hard to swallow but it's not good to disregard it in it's entirety.
Your writing is very interesting!! 😊
Read about this in college. The book Heloise and Abelard. A lot of the transcript came from his own writings and he talked about the castration in how he didn’t regret the love affair and would do it again if even if the outcome were the same. Nuts.
Did he really say that he didn't regret it and would do it again ???
@@Lana-yd7or not word for word but there was that sentiment (if I recall correctly)
No LOL ! Terribly sad. I'd never heard
this tale before. I blame Abelard. Should have asked her uncle for her hand first before... well... you know.
He wasn't high ranking enough to get married to a noble woman. The uncle would not have allowed it
He was over twice her age to ( she was 15-17
@@Starry-ph6yx back then they wouldn’t have cared about that, only that Abelard wasn’t a noble
@@Starry-ph6yxThat didn't matter to most people, infact that was preferred. Older men often had more wealth, power and prestige in the community and would have, in theory, been able to take care of their daughters
@@alleycat8693 actually when you look backtrack some story you’ll come to notice that some parents and family members weren’t taht happy p*mping their underage daughters
People scrolling through her videos and thinking your in a loop
The teacher not only taught her Theory but practically
I think I remember a fictional story about this with the name “spider” in the title.
This is ligth compared to some other stuff that happened
HE WAS SO BORING
I have no idea what she saw in him
They walked so that the Wattpad girls could run 💀
I watched all your shorts beautiful paintings
What is the name of this piece??? The music is beautiful
Je te laisserai des mots
By Patrick Watson
any love could be romanticized by the ones involved, but from one around them, no definitely not always....😅😅😅
I thought about the story between Heloise and Abelard again after re-listening to a Dave Matthew’s Band song, “The Space Between”. They named their child, Astrolabe, which was a medieval instrument used to measure the distance between stars. Hence, the space between.
After what I learned about their story, I think the uncle was almost entirely to blame. How was he really “protecting her” after the fact? So what if they became lovers and she got pregnant? He married her, and they had a healthy child together. He took responsibility. Yes, she was a teenager and he was in his 30s, which is over the top (less so for the time), but it’s not like she was an average teenager. She was as brilliant as he was. Heloise was now married to a successful, passionate, and talented scholar like herself. They were a good match, if not the ideal match. How would that have “ruined her life”, like some people in the comments are suggesting? She still had a bright, if not brighter future ahead of her, and so did he. It’s actually anti-feminist to assume that once a woman has a child, her mind is somehow crippled and she can’t compete in the sphere of intellect dominated by men anymore. That’s the real idealogical culprit that the uncle was harboring, here. I hear that giving birth opens up an even deeper sphere of a woman’s mind. In general, we naturally have more connections between both hemispheres of our brains compared to men’s brains, which makes us adept non-dualistic thinkers and abstract problem solvers.
Her uncle ruined both of their lives by barbarically castrating Abelard. It’s also not true that some people in the comments were saying that he raped her. Really? Then why would she write him beautiful love letters for the rest of her life? He wrote her, as well, but you really can’t blame him for how dry his letters to her were, in comparison. You can imagine that he was a totally broken man after his castration, even though he eventually resumed his teaching career. That was probably the only joy left in his life. Abelard must have cast his resentment unfairly onto Heloise, when it should have been entirely on her uncle. That understandably deep resentment at what was done to him showed itself when Abelard encouraged Heloise to join a convent. She didn’t want to be there. She was miserable. In one letter, she wrote Abelard that she had sexual thoughts about him and asked him for advice about what to do about it. You see, that was a manifestation of her resentment towards Abelard for locking her away like he did. Resentment because she knew he was castrated, and she’s digging that knife into him expressing her carnal thoughts with her intact reproductive system. It was still Heloise’s choice to join the convent, but she was an impressionable teenager horrified by the situation, so she did what the men in her life suggested she do. She was truly in love with Abelard for the rest of her life, and I think that Abelard was also truly in love with Eloise until her uncle stepped in and destroyed both of their lives. Heloise got a terrible deal. She didn’t even get to raise her own child, but at least she wasn’t physically mutilated, which I think is even worse. I mean, we do it to our pets, but I digress.
But yes, Abelard also takes some serious heat for not waiting until she was a bit older or finished being his student to ask for her hand in marriage. He could have made his intentions clear to her without giving into the desire for sex. She was too young and he was in a position of power over her, and he was wrong to just let it happen. At the same time, sometimes things happen when there’s that much passion between two people. Intellectual passion mixed with deep emotional and physical passion is like a lit match on gasoline. That being said, had the uncle not been a total f*cking psycho, they could have both very well had a happy and fruitful marriage and career ahead of them. They were a good match for each other.
I remember this story when I read Spider’s Voice he was a fictional character in Eloise and Abelard’s life
Grooming has been going on for a LONG time. Poor girl. He probably thought "well I'll just get her pregnant. Then we HAVE to get married and BOOM rich"
She still got to smash though
Yes men have been baby trapping girls for centuries
He should have kept his end closed. He’s an abuser who ruined her life. Nothing romantic about this story.
If I was the uncle I would have had the exact same reaction
Yep, there’s arguments among historians regarding her ‘willingness’. But in a letter he had written years later, Abelard reminded her of his abusive behavior: “Even when you were unwilling, resisted to the utmost of your power and tried to dissuade, as yours was the weaker nature, I often forced you to consent with threats and blows” kinda speaks for itself tbh
@@calypso2512 jesus fucking christ man
@@calypso2512Oh wow… poor lady and her child. I hope they are resting now. ❤🕊️✝️
@@KatharoniThe uncle agreed to the marriage and then betrayed them. The uncle is the only 100% confirmed bad actor here, hence why his goons went to jail and he was shunned from public life
This has got to be my favorite channel right now.
melanie martinez once said TEACHER'S PET
love the uncle
Bruh you are still a virgin kiddo
ye balls be gone
It's giving 'If you're not here, I will never love again 💔 '😢
Could you please make a video on Alma Tadema paintings or the Roses of Heliogabalus? Extraordinary paintings
I don’t believe they married…didn’t she refuse him?
I don't think so. I think they COULDN'T be married because of her class
I read that even for the time, the age gap was considered to be astronomical. And also I agree with the uncle
It’s still like that TODAY. 16 is the legal age in my state you can start dating any age you Like. Still gross, but the uncle isn’t right either, because HE wanted to hand her off to a rich, arrogant man- the uncle did NOT care about her age! Only that it was not who HE “assigned” her to be with! You think he cared about her??? 😂
@@maureenjossick429 damn, theres no good guy in this story
THE GUY LOOKING THROUGH THE DOOR , I CAN'T 😂😂😂😂😂😂
But the splendor of love is eternal. They are remembered forever.
There is a story that at the end of her life Heloise asked to be buried with Abelard who had passed many years before her. when they opened the tomb however, he opened his arms to accept her into his embrace so they could be together for the rest of time.
Humans can be absolute demons 💀
Men. It's men
@@RavensWings11 why Men, what about Women
bro taking "age just a number" to far 💀
Love your videos, always inspiring ❤
i know it was ok in their times, but she has a 16 yr student and he was a 30 sm year old teacher👹💀‼️
What happened to there son?
Real love ❤
He definetly did not see that coming 😂
Yall talking about an age gap. Let's not forget that people did not live very long back then so when you dying at the ripe of 25- about 33 there was not much waiting to 30 to get married and start a family. If they both loved and consented in their time period the issues only lie with us and our privilege to live in a time where we can mature and wait till we're good and ready to start our lives.
That's not really true. If you survived past 15 you had a good chance of living to 60. The high mortality of kids and babies is what skewed the average age of death downward.
People didn’t actually die as young as that, that’s just the average age because the number was brought down by the high levels of infant mortality. If you made it past childhood it wasn’t uncommon to live until 60.
Yeah the biggest issue here is that he abused his influence and her family (who had the ultimate authority) was not consulted and did not approve. He ended up ruining all three of their lives.
@@jenniferbee1500No, her family who felt they gad the ultimate authority, but we recognize now as being deeply abusive and fundamentally toxic (something known at that time, hence why they hid the relationship). Those are different things.
Idk why but i read nun as man so i was like " wait she turned into a man?" 💀