How much of this do you suspect is "working as intended" vs "how it's working now"? A lot of this sounds unintuitive and unintentional, weapon determining the resistance type especially.
It's a Matsuno game. Nothing ever gets completely discovered until it meets the data mining autopsy table. Guess who intuitively figured out that Charm and Sleep utilized eye contact range for hit chance in PSP? Raics. When making the mod. After studying the numbers for what felt like weeks. We just have to assume crackhead logic sometimes, this right hand thing fits, but I've seen weird things that make me question if it's really what's going on. Actually...I gotta go test a theory. What if weapons are adding their offense as armor , not bolstering it? Weapon skills were armor last time, it's still a mechanic, but greatly reduced....(and this is how videos get made 🤣)
I gave Dievold enough charms to get his MND to 350 because I was tired of his debuffs never having more than 10% to hit in the late game..and nothing changed. So now I'm going to brute force it with the Ogre Blade and make a 999 INT/MND TK
I used to move my priests up to save my melee from death because the ai ranged would sometimes not finish my front line because they could reach my backline.
I had my start with Tactics Ogre on PSP and honestly got the initial impression that stats are EVERYTHING because I hit so little damage (often 1 against the usual suspects), had incredibly low status hit chances (leading me to abandon all my mages) and then, when looking for advice, reading how I needed at least 3 separate augment skills (element, weapon, humanoid) to deal good damage. Learning in this version the value of status effects, percentages and element matchups has been eye-opening, and also a fair bit more enjoyable because so much more feels viable now. Regarding the weird weapon = resistance thing, if that's still the case 4 months later, I'd explain it with "they use their weapon to protect themselves". Like, not literally parrying or deflecting in a game mechanic sense, but just catching hits with it, like when fencing. Might be off for some weapons (like whips, you'd need some Indiana Jones shenanigans for that) but that's how I help myself remember it. Regarding the resistance/armor thing and how the AI targets, I've been abusing that a LOT while going through the story right now. At first I didn't catch it, but by now, I keep my Canopus (since he's the most mobile and versatile) purposely open in terms of defenses to take the heat off my actual pushing force. It's great. Beasts work marvelously for that as well - I'll sometimes just send in my Cockatrice to get beat up a bunch instead, then retaliate with a meaty Petro Breath. It's not even an actual aggro system like in MMOs or Xenoblade, but it works like one and it's superfun to play with/exploit.
Definitely, and when you feel out that aggro, it's like seeing the dang code, I love that stuff. Great phrasing on that weapon armor interaction, going to have to use that going forward. I had sent something similarly worded to their tech support a while ago like "maybe just change the tooltip to say that this is a thing, it's kind of neater than the intended if it's not seen as misleading."
Another amazing video. Only comment is that the plant that smells like death isn’t to keep things away. It’s go attract its most common pollinators like beetles and flys that like the smell.
Not sure if you mentioned it in any of your videos yet and I didn't catch it in this one if you did, but as of version 1 0 4 0, cursed cudgel and book do literally nothing for casters except weightless +5 spell range. Their stats are not included for the purpose of damage calculation on spells. This also applies to any weapon equipped without any offhand item (i.e. mage staff with empty offhand results in the same spell damage as unarmed). I'm assuming this is a bug, I'm also assuming the physical resistance being based on the defenders weapon type is also a bug.
just wanted to say that for your Sherri the earth boots don't give resistance against air but lightning. If you want to resist air you woud need to equip armor with ice element because that is the strong element against air. So the Ice robe i guess. And the other thing is that afaik instill spells give resistance too, so your water affinity valkyrie should equip instill earth, as that is strong against lightning. These things can be tested, great channel btw keep it up.
That's so confusing lol. I would've thought an armors element would give res to the element itself, pretty sure that's how it works in most RPGs and is far more straightforward. What you're saying is you should boost an element so you have more of that element.. More element = less damage to the element its strong against. Apparently I've doing it wrong the whole time cause the game doesn't know how to explain itself geez.
I’ve been roping a lot of casters into ice element even though it’s not their personal element. It inflicts averse, which powers up my ice caster, but it also does pretty good damage in general. Though I tried using fire in CODA 1, and the water prevailing element nerfed it. Really want to push this as far as it can go, since the setup is good for grinding potd.
the right hand weapon damage type works for the elemental resistaces as well. Also, the Earthen Greaves give resistance to lightning according to the games info button.
Wait what?? So you can be one element, but your weapon element affects which elemental resistance you use? Okay, I give up on caring about this without an infographic.
Yup, I had a brain fart on that one. Time to throw away Sherri and get the iffy voice lady back. I've seen split resistances working pretty effectively regardless of RH type (as far as it seemed, everything is always worth testing further), what was tested in this case?
Not entirely accurate. Elemental Resistances on armor activate under different scenarios than Physical Resistances. It's just that Physical Resistances are currently reducing damage from both physical AND magical attacks, and the Physical Resistance that activates to reduce damage is the one that matches your main-hand weapon's damage type (e.g. If you equip a Crushing weapon in your main hand, damage from both physical and magical attacks will be reduced by your armor's combined Crushing Resistance value).
@@benedict6962 This may not be an infographic, but it's a pretty comprehensive explanation of how Physical and Elemental Damage Bonuses/Resistances are currently working (or failing to): 1) Physical Damage Bonuses (e.g. 15 Crushing) on weapons. These apply to damage dealt with the basic melee/ranged attack and finishers. However, they are currently applying to finishers that do not match their damage type (e.g. An equipped Hammer with 15 Crushing bonus will apply that bonus to both Crushing AND Piercing Hammer finishers). 2) Elemental Damage Bonuses (e.g. 15 Fire) on weapons. These bonuses only apply in very specific scenarios: a) These bonuses apply to basic melee/ranged attacks when the WEAPON's element is strong against the target's AFFINITY. b) These bonuses apply to spells when the SPELL's element is strong against the target's AFFINITY. In addition, the type of elemental damage bonus (Fire/Ice/Wind etc.) does NOT have to match the spell's element. However, elemental damage bonuses on weapons are affected by the same bug that prevents INT/MND bonuses on weapons from contributing to spell damage (the weapon with these bonuses must be 1-handed, and have an accompanying offhand item equipped). 3) Physical Resistances on armor. These are currently reducing damage taken from BOTH physical and magical attacks, and only the physical resistance that matches the damage type of the wearer's main hand weapon will activate to reduce damage. For example, if the wearer has a Crushing weapon equipped, only their armor's combined Crushing resistance will activate to reduce damage, not their Slashing or Piercing resistances. 4) Elemental Resistances on armor. These resistances only activate in very specific scenarios: a) When the wearer is struck by a basic melee/ranged attack, spell, or finisher of an element that is STRONG against the wearer's Affinity. The elemental resistance that activates in this scenario will be of the element that is STRONG against the element of the attack (e.g. if a Wind Affinity unit is struck by an Ice finisher, only the FIRE resistances on their armor will activate to reduce the finisher's damage). For spells and basic melee/ranged attacks, the relevant resistance that activates will only work to reduce the attacker's elemental damage bonus from their weapon, and will not provide any additional damage reduction once that bonus is reduced to 0 (e.g. 30 elemental damage bonus vs 50 elemental resistance in this scenario will only result in 0 bonus, not -20 penalty for the attacker). For spells specifically, because the relevant resistance in this scenario only works to reduce the attacker's elemental damage bonus, if the attacker is wielding a 2-handed weapon (or a 1-handed weapon without an offhand item equipped), the relevant resistance will do nothing. This is because the attacker is not having their weapon's elemental damage bonus applied to their spell (due to the bug specified in 2b). b) When the wearer is struck by a basic melee/ranged attack, spell, or finisher of an element that is WEAK against the wearer's Affinity. The elemental resistance that activates in this scenario will be of the element that MATCHES the wearer's Affinity (e.g. if a Wind Affinity unit is struck by an Earth finisher, only the WIND resistances on their armor will activate to reduce the finisher's damage). There does not seem to be a cap on how much the relevant resistance can reduce the attack's damage by in this scenario.
@@rucession5760 thanks for the hard work. This is a very useful info. It sounds like the damage calculation in the game was either an abandoned/incomplete work, or done incorrectly by an outsource team (3rd party). I guess if the game can be completed then it's a finished product even though it's fairly buggy.
The physical resistance matching the type of the right handed weapon seems significant-- it means in order to try and cover against a type of physical attack, you also reduce damage against anyone using that same damage type. So it seems impossible to be both very resistant and very strong against a single type of damage. I might play around with this and see if I can curb some of the damage against my mages. If I use a Sticker and a Baldur Shield +1, Circlet +1, Magus Robe +1, and a Defenders Ring, I could shave off 12% from incoming piercing ranged damage and have decent elemental coverage to defend against the main damage types hitting my backfield.
@CoffeePotato I played around a little bit with the formulas that are out there. I'm trying to create some rules of thumb for different roles. As far as increasing damage output, everything else equal, it seems the Affinity modifier is king in giving you a big boost, especially early game. Melee weapon damage generally scales better with stats and the first part of the equation Bows generally scale better with Weapon ATK and the second part of the equation.
One thing I like to do with casters is equip gear that boosts luck to get those good crits. I have noticed that MND affects the rate that finishing moves inflict status, so does spellstrike work as well? About min max it is not even necessary(be it RT, damage,equipment, stats, classes and etc), the most essential thing is simply enemy and game knowledge. For example, cockatrices were very annoying in the beginning of the game and it was very hard to counter their flight and petrify. Later on, you learn about the multiple options you have: you can weaken it, fear, charm, slow, stop, mp reset, leaden, kill it as fast possible with focus fire, etc. Once you know your enemy and how to position your units well, taking proper advantage of the blue card system, you already won half the battle, just my 2 cents, lol.
It's my understanding that Spellstrike works similarly to the skills that increase accuracy for melee attacks. Those will guarantee crits and application of status effects. I'm not 100% on this though. I use Deneb for status ailments and he Magic Time skill combines Spellstrike and Spellcraft. I'm not sure what the distinction is between the two abilities. Maybe Strike increases damage, while Craft is what is increasing the status proc. All I know is that she applies them all day, like there isn't even any probability involved.
@@Shin_Lona great to hear about that. Spellcraft is very minor damage buff, spellstrike increases accuracy of status. My doubt was if the strike one works for those finishing moves and based on your feedback that is the case.
Based on old mechanics and current testing from myself and others I've seen, I believe it's something like this: Mind- Debuff Accuracy from all sources, partially resistance to anything magical, some extra magic damage. Luck- Crit chance, Drop Table brackets/chance, Parry chance, Block/miss chance. Spellstrike- 30% accuracy buff for spell debuffs only, and makes 30% the minimum hit chance. Spellcrafr- 15% damage/Penetration boost for magic
@@CoffeePotato spellcraft is 15%? I guessed it was half of that. Based on my testing spellstrike affect things like agonal scream(smelly set gremlin with Tk bodysnatch is good, great against the heavenly generals). Kind sad it does not work for finishing moves, somes builds were lost there, wanted to make a debuff Archer with concentration and meditate later on, drop that build idea.
wait, so right arm slot decides what form of phys res you use? but what about other res types? so if you use a hammer and your phys res is tailored towards crushing but you are attacked by pierce? does it count as zero res? or all phys attacks are calculated of you main phys res type?
It may be a bug, it may be a reference to PSP skill armor tailoring, but you get a broad resistance bonus that's different based on your right hand weapon. So say the armor total is like 40% slash, 10% pierce, 0% Crush. Gladius gives 40% physical resistance, Rapier gets 10%, Hammer gets nothing but the hard armor stats. I'm still waiting on a concrete on answer as to whether this intentional Matsuno weirdness or misassigning the attacker and defender variables for physical armor checks or something.
@@CoffeePotato huh, so this fact alone changes the way a character should gear up. I used to try balancing every res type and watch for what enemies use in battle, but now it seems like equipment should be tailored around rh weapon. It also gives some food for thought for what to put in rh slot for characters that use two weapon types like dagger + bow.
So wait... a Shield that has 3 on every element. Does that reduce 3% off any elemental attack because it has 3% on everything or does it reduce it because you will always have an element for the character that matches one of those?
Hey Coffee Potato, Did you 100% the PSP version? I mean, like getting every single character and every path and scene on the WoF? And have you already done it on reborn?
More or less. I prefer to be surprised on new challenge runs, though. A 100% counter was a bit of an odd choice on this one in my opinion, just because it has tons of different, small, oddly specific variants, which is currently driving more than a few folks nuts.
Towards the end when you are talking about the beasts at San Bronsa, you talk about not doing good damage because they have high Vit. Doesn't that contradict what you said earlier about percentages mattering more than stats? 🤨 Aren't the stats getting modified by the percentages anyhow? Should you really have Vyce as an Archer and Catiua as a Kunoichi?
Sort of. Ranged weapons are the weird exception, but not. Essentially ranged stuff scales at like 80% better damage than melee, but loses a ton of that in the physical stats contest at the start. This means Vit and Str in disproportionate numbers can shave off a ton of their damage, which still goes up by % modifiers, but was hurt earlier. In that example, I was using a neutral element archer. If he was ice, he could scale right past that obstacle into one-shot territory. But. Due to ranged weapon funkiness, his 30%ish bonus was scaling off of a lower number, leading it to only give about 100 extra, due to that extra vitality. Those birds seem to have unusually high Vit to compensate for no hard armor, because this is less damage than he was doing vs the Knight Commander boss Rush. Ranged is weird. I like weird. But it's sure confusing.
I don't think you're giving Sherri the right spellcasting weapon. It should be more like 250 vs 300-320, which is a bigger gap but still viable to use a rune fencer for so much more defensive relic access.
I think it was armor, since getting exactly the same dummies in different elements is...something for the PC Cheat crowd to wrangle up. Either way, my point was mostly just that even with stacked bonuses, it's not the 250 to 2000 jump some folks say it is.
Alright so I think you have some things about how elements work incorrect. One thing is that you mention you get the higher between the unit vs unit affinity element bonus of 30% or the element on your weapon if it is favorable. Everything I have read suggests that unit vs unit affinity and action vs unity affinity element bonuses are entirely separate, and I have just tested that and confirmed that to be the case. I took Ice Denam with two 'The Awakener' katanas and checked damage vs Wind Canopus with no equipment. One awakener had 7 slash and 28 ice element, the other had 6 slash and 18 ice element. Ideally I'd have two of the same relic with the same physical bonus but different element, but with a 1pt physical difference and 10pt element difference, I expected it would be obvious if both unit v unit affinity and action vs unit affinity stacked. The first attack displayed 668 damage, the second 629. A 39 damage point difference, which is clearly not from the 1% additional slash bonus. As for elemental defenses, as I understand it they work as such: for attack actions that have favorable affinity vs the target unit, the appropriate element defense (which is the element strong against the attack element) reduces the element bonus of the attack action to a minimum of zero. So if I use a fire finisher against an Ice unit, their water defense should do nothing - because no element bonus on my weapon applies to the finisher. But if I use a fire spell against an ice unit with a staff with a 10 Fire bonus, then their water defense will reduce that bonus, but not reduce damage past that bonus. In the case of attack actions that are weak against the target affinity, it's the same except the defense can reduce the damage below 0 effective element bonus. So in your example of Sherri vs a Gryffon, her element defense won't matter at all because the Gryffon's bonus damage is coming from unit vs unit affinity, and not from attack action vs unit affinity. And even if the Gryffon does use an air element attack, such as their Wind Cutter ability, the attack has no element bonus to reduce so element resistance does nothing. To test this, I use the Denam vs Canopus scenario again. This time I gave Denam a Damascus Axe so he had no element bonus, only unit affinity vs unit affinity bonus. Canopus in one scenario only had a Circlet equipped, giving him 8 defense, 1 vitality, and 5 of all element resistance. In the second scenario he had only Linen Slops, giving him 8 defense and 2 all element resistance. I also fed him 1 vit charm to make that up. In both cases, Denam displayed 632 damage. The second element test I did was Lightning Denam with a Damascus Spear vs Earth Canopus, Canopus using the same gear as in the previous test i.e. he loses 3 element resistance between tests. In the first case, Denams attack does 478, Scythe Wind does 578, and Giga Tempest does 576. In the second, the attack and Scythe Wind do the same damage, but Giga Tempest does 590! This showcases that element defense does indeed wholly reduce damage vs attacks with an unfavorable element, but does nothing against attacks without an element even if the unit affinity is unfavorable.
One slight correction: in the (Strong) Finisher Element vs (Weak) Defender Affinity interaction, the defender's elemental resistance that is strong against the finisher's element does activate to reduce the finisher's damage. The rest of your points about elemental interactions are pretty spot on.
Sort of, so without going point by point, Physical, Finisher, and Magic seen to have different logic. So like a melee weapon in off element that's super effective vs the thing the weapon is weak too will get it's bonus, and spells will usually be resisted exclusively by Resistance as a stat, while a finisher seems to take opposing affinity as it's defense alongside melee weapons. Probably. That's why we test these things, and honestly given the trend of these games, we won't know for sure until all of the data mining is done. Like I'm positive I saw one unexplained edge case where Instill seemed to matter for elemental weakness. Wasn't able to recreate it, so I have no clue. It always feels like Fear lowers Auto chance. Hoping to prove that. Always feels like Dodge improves Parry chance. Still testing that. Game's made by crazy people, trying to hopefully get some right info out, but there will be errors 🤷
@@CoffeePotato The information that we currently have of the game's damage formula and how damage bonuses/resistances factor into it is both comprehensive and accurate enough for us to perform damage calculations related to them that are almost accurate to the last point of damage. We have also confirmed the few specific scenarios in which elemental resistances are activating (and exactly how much damage they're reducing per point of resistance). On the topic of the secondary hit applied to the basic attack by the -Touched buff, I've done some parallel testing and already shared my results in the TO channel of the SRPG discord: The secondary hit applied by the -Touched buff seems to have its own element, and its scaling (25%) with the primary (basic attack) hit is affected by a few exclusive modifiers (which are pretty consistent in how much they affect the base scaling of 25%, but don't seem to be based on any logical multiplier to it): 1) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) is STRONG against the target's Affinity, the scaling of the secondary hit receives a bonus modifier of about ~6% (+25%=31%). 2) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) is STRONG against the user's Affinity, the scaling of the secondary hit receives a penalty modifier of about ~1.4% (25%-1.4%=23.6%). 3) When both the above interactions occur at the same time (-Touched buff is strong against both the target and the user's Affinity), both the penalty AND the bonus seem to apply, resulting in a scaling of about (31%-1.4%)=29.6%. 4) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) MATCHES the element of the user's weapon, BOTH bonuses and penalties from the above interactions fail to apply, resulting in baseline scaling of 25%
@@rucession5760 Oh thanks for this information. I had seen a suggestion to use the instill that covers your weakness, and I'm currently using a Light Denam so I used Instill Shadow. I noticed I was doing less than 25% damage and meant to test if it actually was affected by user affinity or not, since I had seen that it wasn't. Since the defense buff is so easy to overwrite, seems like picking an instill of an element different to your own but not one you're weak to is optimal, as it gives you the 25% of matching all the time except when the instill element is favorable vs the target. If you don't mind answering, in regards to damage calculations I was unable to come up with theoretical calculations that matched the damage numbers I was seeing in-game. I am aware of some kind of 'class based defense' that gets applied, is that the missing piece or is there something else?
@@aromaticity9150 If you could give me an example of one of your calculations that would be great (and it would make it easier to tell what component is missing if there are any).
Mannn....Physical Resistances on armor only working with whichever dmg type corresponds to your equipped weapon blows, and Elemental Resistances on armor only activating to curb the elemental dmg that you're weak to, or strong against, is just so infuriating (and that's just me paraphrasing the specifics, for those wondering). Why can't we just get our blanket resistances across the board, AS INTENDED! It makes planning a build so unnecessarily convoluted. It's why I can't bring myself to come back to reborn. I might design some graphics/charts for folks if Reborn doesn't get a patch like within the next month or so, but it doesn't feel good knowing all that junk is what awaits me after I get into ch 4.
For a moment, I felt the same. However, this feels familiar. Whether this pans out or not, I don't know, but I recall feeling really similar about PSP for ages. Actually that's why I redid stuff like the old No Skill run, because looking back, we had assumed a ton about the game that turned out to work completely different. It was going through OV that sort of opened my eyes as to what was down there, seeing all of these mechanics kind of dug up and repurposed led to a deeper appreciation of the original upon going back. I'm planning to do a lot of mechanical deep dives into uses of different mechanics, for better or worse, between PSP, OV, and RB, which I'm hoping will shake out more cogs, gears, and interactions. I feel like there's more there, and so far, it's been showing up in crumbs, just like last time. (Or maybe the devs have gone senile, time will tell 🤣)
I'm watching this video but honestly, it's all over the place. I think it would be far easier to understand if you just separated concepts and made use of better examples. For instance, maybe show 2 mostly identical units but with a different weapon or something and explain WHY they deal different damage, or why they take less damage. I find the whole vid very hard to follow.
@@CoffeePotato thanks for the replies. Do you think you could make a video on weapon and armor types? I've never had anyone use claws for example. All my Rune Fencers have been using Scorpion + because that did more base damage than stuff like swords at the time. It would be cool to have a video along the lines of "here's some different setups for a warrior/berserker/rune fencer/ninja"
@@monoespacial Funnily enough that's the exact thing I've been mentally working on since I didn't like the original version last Friday. I'm hoping to finally get a chance to get it done tomorrow.
@Coffee Potato aweee :( no wonder oof. Okay, thanks for the reply! I plays LUCT but gave up before chapter two. On chapter 3 ATM and I'm getting my ass handed to me. Is there like a discord or something I can join to help me understand more??
@@CoffeePotato Sorta of a shame it was a memorable experience. "Hmm why it does look different?" *Proceeds to not be removable by normal means* *ragequit*
How much of this do you suspect is "working as intended" vs "how it's working now"? A lot of this sounds unintuitive and unintentional, weapon determining the resistance type especially.
It's a Matsuno game. Nothing ever gets completely discovered until it meets the data mining autopsy table. Guess who intuitively figured out that Charm and Sleep utilized eye contact range for hit chance in PSP? Raics. When making the mod. After studying the numbers for what felt like weeks. We just have to assume crackhead logic sometimes, this right hand thing fits, but I've seen weird things that make me question if it's really what's going on. Actually...I gotta go test a theory. What if weapons are adding their offense as armor , not bolstering it? Weapon skills were armor last time, it's still a mechanic, but greatly reduced....(and this is how videos get made 🤣)
I think if coffee and other veterans can complete this game with many self imposed challenges, then it can be said that it's a working product.
Great work as usual sir 🙏🏾
Thank You!
I gave Dievold enough charms to get his MND to 350 because I was tired of his debuffs never having more than 10% to hit in the late game..and nothing changed. So now I'm going to brute force it with the Ogre Blade and make a 999 INT/MND TK
Spellstrike buff is a must, whether is through his proc skill, songstress, or item buff.
Concentration, that'll immediately get you 30-40.
Intelligence plays a part in it too I think.
I did similar with Hobrym as a swordmaster, and not much changed until I brought his INT up as well.
Balanced INT & MND seems to be the ticket.
@@garadje2623 Thank you
I used to move my priests up to save my melee from death because the ai ranged would sometimes not finish my front line because they could reach my backline.
I had my start with Tactics Ogre on PSP and honestly got the initial impression that stats are EVERYTHING because I hit so little damage (often 1 against the usual suspects), had incredibly low status hit chances (leading me to abandon all my mages) and then, when looking for advice, reading how I needed at least 3 separate augment skills (element, weapon, humanoid) to deal good damage.
Learning in this version the value of status effects, percentages and element matchups has been eye-opening, and also a fair bit more enjoyable because so much more feels viable now. Regarding the weird weapon = resistance thing, if that's still the case 4 months later, I'd explain it with "they use their weapon to protect themselves". Like, not literally parrying or deflecting in a game mechanic sense, but just catching hits with it, like when fencing. Might be off for some weapons (like whips, you'd need some Indiana Jones shenanigans for that) but that's how I help myself remember it.
Regarding the resistance/armor thing and how the AI targets, I've been abusing that a LOT while going through the story right now. At first I didn't catch it, but by now, I keep my Canopus (since he's the most mobile and versatile) purposely open in terms of defenses to take the heat off my actual pushing force. It's great. Beasts work marvelously for that as well - I'll sometimes just send in my Cockatrice to get beat up a bunch instead, then retaliate with a meaty Petro Breath. It's not even an actual aggro system like in MMOs or Xenoblade, but it works like one and it's superfun to play with/exploit.
Definitely, and when you feel out that aggro, it's like seeing the dang code, I love that stuff.
Great phrasing on that weapon armor interaction, going to have to use that going forward. I had sent something similarly worded to their tech support a while ago like "maybe just change the tooltip to say that this is a thing, it's kind of neater than the intended if it's not seen as misleading."
Another amazing video. Only comment is that the plant that smells like death isn’t to keep things away. It’s go attract its most common pollinators like beetles and flys that like the smell.
Fair point. Now that you mention it, I think that's what I was taught in school, corrected later, then forgot again 🤣
Not sure if you mentioned it in any of your videos yet and I didn't catch it in this one if you did, but as of version 1 0 4 0, cursed cudgel and book do literally nothing for casters except weightless +5 spell range. Their stats are not included for the purpose of damage calculation on spells. This also applies to any weapon equipped without any offhand item (i.e. mage staff with empty offhand results in the same spell damage as unarmed). I'm assuming this is a bug, I'm also assuming the physical resistance being based on the defenders weapon type is also a bug.
just wanted to say that for your Sherri the earth boots don't give resistance against air but lightning. If you want to resist air you woud need to equip armor with ice element because that is the strong element against air. So the Ice robe i guess.
And the other thing is that afaik instill spells give resistance too, so your water affinity valkyrie should equip instill earth, as that is strong against lightning.
These things can be tested, great channel btw keep it up.
Good point. Time to fish Olivia from the POTD 🤣
@@CoffeePotato I thought those elemental resists on gear were bugged and not working properly. Guess the aegis shield was great all the time lol.
That's so confusing lol. I would've thought an armors element would give res to the element itself, pretty sure that's how it works in most RPGs and is far more straightforward.
What you're saying is you should boost an element so you have more of that element.. More element = less damage to the element its strong against.
Apparently I've doing it wrong the whole time cause the game doesn't know how to explain itself geez.
I’ve been roping a lot of casters into ice element even though it’s not their personal element. It inflicts averse, which powers up my ice caster, but it also does pretty good damage in general.
Though I tried using fire in CODA 1, and the water prevailing element nerfed it.
Really want to push this as far as it can go, since the setup is good for grinding potd.
Interestingly enough just doing some easy story routes gets you some solid charm counts too.
the right hand weapon damage type works for the elemental resistaces as well. Also, the Earthen Greaves give resistance to lightning according to the games info button.
Wait what?? So you can be one element, but your weapon element affects which elemental resistance you use? Okay, I give up on caring about this without an infographic.
Yup, I had a brain fart on that one. Time to throw away Sherri and get the iffy voice lady back.
I've seen split resistances working pretty effectively regardless of RH type (as far as it seemed, everything is always worth testing further), what was tested in this case?
Not entirely accurate. Elemental Resistances on armor activate under different scenarios than Physical Resistances. It's just that Physical Resistances are currently reducing damage from both physical AND magical attacks, and the Physical Resistance that activates to reduce damage is the one that matches your main-hand weapon's damage type (e.g. If you equip a Crushing weapon in your main hand, damage from both physical and magical attacks will be reduced by your armor's combined Crushing Resistance value).
@@benedict6962 This may not be an infographic, but it's a pretty comprehensive explanation of how Physical and Elemental Damage Bonuses/Resistances are currently working (or failing to):
1) Physical Damage Bonuses (e.g. 15 Crushing) on weapons. These apply to damage dealt with the basic melee/ranged attack and finishers. However, they are currently applying to finishers that do not match their damage type (e.g. An equipped Hammer with 15 Crushing bonus will apply that bonus to both Crushing AND Piercing Hammer finishers).
2) Elemental Damage Bonuses (e.g. 15 Fire) on weapons. These bonuses only apply in very specific scenarios:
a) These bonuses apply to basic melee/ranged attacks when the WEAPON's element is strong against the target's AFFINITY.
b) These bonuses apply to spells when the SPELL's element is strong against the target's AFFINITY. In addition, the type of elemental damage bonus (Fire/Ice/Wind etc.) does NOT have to match the spell's element. However, elemental damage bonuses on weapons are affected by the same bug that prevents INT/MND bonuses on weapons from contributing to spell damage (the weapon with these bonuses must be 1-handed, and have an accompanying offhand item equipped).
3) Physical Resistances on armor. These are currently reducing damage taken from BOTH physical and magical attacks, and only the physical resistance that matches the damage type of the wearer's main hand weapon will activate to reduce damage. For example, if the wearer has a Crushing weapon equipped, only their armor's combined Crushing resistance will activate to reduce damage, not their Slashing or Piercing resistances.
4) Elemental Resistances on armor. These resistances only activate in very specific scenarios:
a) When the wearer is struck by a basic melee/ranged attack, spell, or finisher of an element that is STRONG against the wearer's Affinity. The elemental resistance that activates in this scenario will be of the element that is STRONG against the element of the attack (e.g. if a Wind Affinity unit is struck by an Ice finisher, only the FIRE resistances on their armor will activate to reduce the finisher's damage).
For spells and basic melee/ranged attacks, the relevant resistance that activates will only work to reduce the attacker's elemental damage bonus from their weapon, and will not provide any additional damage reduction once that bonus is reduced to 0 (e.g. 30 elemental damage bonus vs 50 elemental resistance in this scenario will only result in 0 bonus, not -20 penalty for the attacker).
For spells specifically, because the relevant resistance in this scenario only works to reduce the attacker's elemental damage bonus, if the attacker is wielding a 2-handed weapon (or a 1-handed weapon without an offhand item equipped), the relevant resistance will do nothing. This is because the attacker is not having their weapon's elemental damage bonus applied to their spell (due to the bug specified in 2b).
b) When the wearer is struck by a basic melee/ranged attack, spell, or finisher of an element that is WEAK against the wearer's Affinity. The elemental resistance that activates in this scenario will be of the element that MATCHES the wearer's Affinity (e.g. if a Wind Affinity unit is struck by an Earth finisher, only the WIND resistances on their armor will activate to reduce the finisher's damage). There does not seem to be a cap on how much the relevant resistance can reduce the attack's damage by in this scenario.
@@rucession5760 thanks for the hard work.
This is a very useful info. It sounds like the damage calculation in the game was either an abandoned/incomplete work, or done incorrectly by an outsource team (3rd party).
I guess if the game can be completed then it's a finished product even though it's fairly buggy.
The physical resistance matching the type of the right handed weapon seems significant-- it means in order to try and cover against a type of physical attack, you also reduce damage against anyone using that same damage type. So it seems impossible to be both very resistant and very strong against a single type of damage.
I might play around with this and see if I can curb some of the damage against my mages. If I use a Sticker and a Baldur Shield +1, Circlet +1, Magus Robe +1, and a Defenders Ring, I could shave off 12% from incoming piercing ranged damage and have decent elemental coverage to defend against the main damage types hitting my backfield.
You can do some weird nonsense with this, it's pretty amusing.
@CoffeePotato I played around a little bit with the formulas that are out there. I'm trying to create some rules of thumb for different roles. As far as increasing damage output, everything else equal, it seems the Affinity modifier is king in giving you a big boost, especially early game.
Melee weapon damage generally scales better with stats and the first part of the equation
Bows generally scale better with Weapon ATK and the second part of the equation.
One thing I like to do with casters is equip gear that boosts luck to get those good crits. I have noticed that MND affects the rate that finishing moves inflict status, so does spellstrike work as well?
About min max it is not even necessary(be it RT, damage,equipment, stats, classes and etc), the most essential thing is simply enemy and game knowledge.
For example, cockatrices were very annoying in the beginning of the game and it was very hard to counter their flight and petrify.
Later on, you learn about the multiple options you have: you can weaken it, fear, charm, slow, stop, mp reset, leaden, kill it as fast possible with focus fire, etc.
Once you know your enemy and how to position your units well, taking proper advantage of the blue card system, you already won half the battle, just my 2 cents, lol.
It's my understanding that Spellstrike works similarly to the skills that increase accuracy for melee attacks. Those will guarantee crits and application of status effects. I'm not 100% on this though. I use Deneb for status ailments and he Magic Time skill combines Spellstrike and Spellcraft. I'm not sure what the distinction is between the two abilities. Maybe Strike increases damage, while Craft is what is increasing the status proc. All I know is that she applies them all day, like there isn't even any probability involved.
@@Shin_Lona great to hear about that. Spellcraft is very minor damage buff, spellstrike increases accuracy of status. My doubt was if the strike one works for those finishing moves and based on your feedback that is the case.
Based on old mechanics and current testing from myself and others I've seen, I believe it's something like this:
Mind- Debuff Accuracy from all sources, partially resistance to anything magical, some extra magic damage.
Luck- Crit chance, Drop Table brackets/chance, Parry chance, Block/miss chance.
Spellstrike- 30% accuracy buff for spell debuffs only, and makes 30% the minimum hit chance.
Spellcrafr- 15% damage/Penetration boost for magic
@@CoffeePotato spellcraft is 15%? I guessed it was half of that. Based on my testing spellstrike affect things like agonal scream(smelly set gremlin with Tk bodysnatch is good, great against the heavenly generals).
Kind sad it does not work for finishing moves, somes builds were lost there, wanted to make a debuff Archer with concentration and meditate later on, drop that build idea.
wait, so right arm slot decides what form of phys res you use? but what about other res types? so if you use a hammer and your phys res is tailored towards crushing but you are attacked by pierce? does it count as zero res? or all phys attacks are calculated of you main phys res type?
It may be a bug, it may be a reference to PSP skill armor tailoring, but you get a broad resistance bonus that's different based on your right hand weapon. So say the armor total is like 40% slash, 10% pierce, 0% Crush. Gladius gives 40% physical resistance, Rapier gets 10%, Hammer gets nothing but the hard armor stats. I'm still waiting on a concrete on answer as to whether this intentional Matsuno weirdness or misassigning the attacker and defender variables for physical armor checks or something.
@@CoffeePotato huh, so this fact alone changes the way a character should gear up. I used to try balancing every res type and watch for what enemies use in battle, but now it seems like equipment should be tailored around rh weapon. It also gives some food for thought for what to put in rh slot for characters that use two weapon types like dagger + bow.
So wait... a Shield that has 3 on every element. Does that reduce 3% off any elemental attack because it has 3% on everything or does it reduce it because you will always have an element for the character that matches one of those?
If you're weak to an element, it'll take it's 3% against that element and apply it.
Hey Coffee Potato, Did you 100% the PSP version? I mean, like getting every single character and every path and scene on the WoF? And have you already done it on reborn?
More or less. I prefer to be surprised on new challenge runs, though. A 100% counter was a bit of an odd choice on this one in my opinion, just because it has tons of different, small, oddly specific variants, which is currently driving more than a few folks nuts.
Towards the end when you are talking about the beasts at San Bronsa, you talk about not doing good damage because they have high Vit. Doesn't that contradict what you said earlier about percentages mattering more than stats?
🤨
Aren't the stats getting modified by the percentages anyhow?
Should you really have Vyce as an Archer and Catiua as a Kunoichi?
Sort of. Ranged weapons are the weird exception, but not. Essentially ranged stuff scales at like 80% better damage than melee, but loses a ton of that in the physical stats contest at the start. This means Vit and Str in disproportionate numbers can shave off a ton of their damage, which still goes up by % modifiers, but was hurt earlier. In that example, I was using a neutral element archer. If he was ice, he could scale right past that obstacle into one-shot territory. But. Due to ranged weapon funkiness, his 30%ish bonus was scaling off of a lower number, leading it to only give about 100 extra, due to that extra vitality.
Those birds seem to have unusually high Vit to compensate for no hard armor, because this is less damage than he was doing vs the Knight Commander boss Rush.
Ranged is weird. I like weird. But it's sure confusing.
Shoutout to the cyclops named PurplPplEatr not enough people know that reference ha
I need a mod that lets him wield a guitar.
I don't think you're giving Sherri the right spellcasting weapon. It should be more like 250 vs 300-320, which is a bigger gap but still viable to use a rune fencer for so much more defensive relic access.
I think it was armor, since getting exactly the same dummies in different elements is...something for the PC Cheat crowd to wrangle up. Either way, my point was mostly just that even with stacked bonuses, it's not the 250 to 2000 jump some folks say it is.
Alright so I think you have some things about how elements work incorrect.
One thing is that you mention you get the higher between the unit vs unit affinity element bonus of 30% or the element on your weapon if it is favorable. Everything I have read suggests that unit vs unit affinity and action vs unity affinity element bonuses are entirely separate, and I have just tested that and confirmed that to be the case.
I took Ice Denam with two 'The Awakener' katanas and checked damage vs Wind Canopus with no equipment. One awakener had 7 slash and 28 ice element, the other had 6 slash and 18 ice element. Ideally I'd have two of the same relic with the same physical bonus but different element, but with a 1pt physical difference and 10pt element difference, I expected it would be obvious if both unit v unit affinity and action vs unit affinity stacked.
The first attack displayed 668 damage, the second 629. A 39 damage point difference, which is clearly not from the 1% additional slash bonus.
As for elemental defenses, as I understand it they work as such: for attack actions that have favorable affinity vs the target unit, the appropriate element defense (which is the element strong against the attack element) reduces the element bonus of the attack action to a minimum of zero. So if I use a fire finisher against an Ice unit, their water defense should do nothing - because no element bonus on my weapon applies to the finisher. But if I use a fire spell against an ice unit with a staff with a 10 Fire bonus, then their water defense will reduce that bonus, but not reduce damage past that bonus.
In the case of attack actions that are weak against the target affinity, it's the same except the defense can reduce the damage below 0 effective element bonus.
So in your example of Sherri vs a Gryffon, her element defense won't matter at all because the Gryffon's bonus damage is coming from unit vs unit affinity, and not from attack action vs unit affinity. And even if the Gryffon does use an air element attack, such as their Wind Cutter ability, the attack has no element bonus to reduce so element resistance does nothing.
To test this, I use the Denam vs Canopus scenario again. This time I gave Denam a Damascus Axe so he had no element bonus, only unit affinity vs unit affinity bonus. Canopus in one scenario only had a Circlet equipped, giving him 8 defense, 1 vitality, and 5 of all element resistance. In the second scenario he had only Linen Slops, giving him 8 defense and 2 all element resistance. I also fed him 1 vit charm to make that up. In both cases, Denam displayed 632 damage.
The second element test I did was Lightning Denam with a Damascus Spear vs Earth Canopus, Canopus using the same gear as in the previous test i.e. he loses 3 element resistance between tests. In the first case, Denams attack does 478, Scythe Wind does 578, and Giga Tempest does 576. In the second, the attack and Scythe Wind do the same damage, but Giga Tempest does 590! This showcases that element defense does indeed wholly reduce damage vs attacks with an unfavorable element, but does nothing against attacks without an element even if the unit affinity is unfavorable.
One slight correction: in the (Strong) Finisher Element vs (Weak) Defender Affinity interaction, the defender's elemental resistance that is strong against the finisher's element does activate to reduce the finisher's damage. The rest of your points about elemental interactions are pretty spot on.
Sort of, so without going point by point, Physical, Finisher, and Magic seen to have different logic. So like a melee weapon in off element that's super effective vs the thing the weapon is weak too will get it's bonus, and spells will usually be resisted exclusively by Resistance as a stat, while a finisher seems to take opposing affinity as it's defense alongside melee weapons.
Probably.
That's why we test these things, and honestly given the trend of these games, we won't know for sure until all of the data mining is done.
Like I'm positive I saw one unexplained edge case where Instill seemed to matter for elemental weakness. Wasn't able to recreate it, so I have no clue.
It always feels like Fear lowers Auto chance. Hoping to prove that.
Always feels like Dodge improves Parry chance. Still testing that.
Game's made by crazy people, trying to hopefully get some right info out, but there will be errors 🤷
@@CoffeePotato The information that we currently have of the game's damage formula and how damage bonuses/resistances factor into it is both comprehensive and accurate enough for us to perform damage calculations related to them that are almost accurate to the last point of damage. We have also confirmed the few specific scenarios in which elemental resistances are activating (and exactly how much damage they're reducing per point of resistance).
On the topic of the secondary hit applied to the basic attack by the -Touched buff, I've done some parallel testing and already shared my results in the TO channel of the SRPG discord:
The secondary hit applied by the -Touched buff seems to have its own element, and its scaling (25%) with the primary (basic attack) hit is affected by a few exclusive modifiers (which are pretty consistent in how much they affect the base scaling of 25%, but don't seem to be based on any logical multiplier to it):
1) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) is STRONG against the target's Affinity, the scaling of the secondary hit receives a bonus modifier of about ~6% (+25%=31%).
2) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) is STRONG against the user's Affinity, the scaling of the secondary hit receives a penalty modifier of about ~1.4% (25%-1.4%=23.6%).
3) When both the above interactions occur at the same time (-Touched buff is strong against both the target and the user's Affinity), both the penalty AND the bonus seem to apply, resulting in a scaling of about (31%-1.4%)=29.6%.
4) When the element of the -Touched buff (and by extension the secondary hit it applies) MATCHES the element of the user's weapon, BOTH bonuses and penalties from the above interactions fail to apply, resulting in baseline scaling of 25%
@@rucession5760 Oh thanks for this information. I had seen a suggestion to use the instill that covers your weakness, and I'm currently using a Light Denam so I used Instill Shadow. I noticed I was doing less than 25% damage and meant to test if it actually was affected by user affinity or not, since I had seen that it wasn't.
Since the defense buff is so easy to overwrite, seems like picking an instill of an element different to your own but not one you're weak to is optimal, as it gives you the 25% of matching all the time except when the instill element is favorable vs the target.
If you don't mind answering, in regards to damage calculations I was unable to come up with theoretical calculations that matched the damage numbers I was seeing in-game. I am aware of some kind of 'class based defense' that gets applied, is that the missing piece or is there something else?
@@aromaticity9150 If you could give me an example of one of your calculations that would be great (and it would make it easier to tell what component is missing if there are any).
Mannn....Physical Resistances on armor only working with whichever dmg type corresponds to your equipped weapon blows, and Elemental Resistances on armor only activating to curb the elemental dmg that you're weak to, or strong against, is just so infuriating (and that's just me paraphrasing the specifics, for those wondering). Why can't we just get our blanket resistances across the board, AS INTENDED! It makes planning a build so unnecessarily convoluted. It's why I can't bring myself to come back to reborn. I might design some graphics/charts for folks if Reborn doesn't get a patch like within the next month or so, but it doesn't feel good knowing all that junk is what awaits me after I get into ch 4.
For a moment, I felt the same. However, this feels familiar. Whether this pans out or not, I don't know, but I recall feeling really similar about PSP for ages. Actually that's why I redid stuff like the old No Skill run, because looking back, we had assumed a ton about the game that turned out to work completely different. It was going through OV that sort of opened my eyes as to what was down there, seeing all of these mechanics kind of dug up and repurposed led to a deeper appreciation of the original upon going back.
I'm planning to do a lot of mechanical deep dives into uses of different mechanics, for better or worse, between PSP, OV, and RB, which I'm hoping will shake out more cogs, gears, and interactions. I feel like there's more there, and so far, it's been showing up in crumbs, just like last time. (Or maybe the devs have gone senile, time will tell 🤣)
So an armor with a crushing resistance will only apply the resistance bonus if the unit is equipped with a crushing weapon?
For the moment, yeah
I'm watching this video but honestly, it's all over the place. I think it would be far easier to understand if you just separated concepts and made use of better examples. For instance, maybe show 2 mostly identical units but with a different weapon or something and explain WHY they deal different damage, or why they take less damage.
I find the whole vid very hard to follow.
Because I've done that before, and will again. Nothing works simply in this thing 🤣
@@CoffeePotato thanks for the replies. Do you think you could make a video on weapon and armor types? I've never had anyone use claws for example. All my Rune Fencers have been using Scorpion + because that did more base damage than stuff like swords at the time.
It would be cool to have a video along the lines of "here's some different setups for a warrior/berserker/rune fencer/ninja"
@@monoespacial Funnily enough that's the exact thing I've been mentally working on since I didn't like the original version last Friday. I'm hoping to finally get a chance to get it done tomorrow.
I use philtre of ash but I never see anything change really. I just use them cos someone on CZcams said I should. xD
They're for dodging arrows
@Coffee Potato aweee :( no wonder oof. Okay, thanks for the reply! I plays LUCT but gave up before chapter two. On chapter 3 ATM and I'm getting my ass handed to me. Is there like a discord or something I can join to help me understand more??
Bewitched still exists?
Just charm, Bewitch confused people, so previous Bewitch things changed. Like Virtuous un-charms and sleeps your own guys while charming others.
@@CoffeePotato Sorta of a shame it was a memorable experience.
"Hmm why it does look different?"
*Proceeds to not be removable by normal means*
*ragequit*
*Lose 2 units to Bewitched unit slapping people off of cliffs*
*Loyalty Warning after it happens 8 more times*
34:15 YOOOO POTATO SUPPORTS TRANS RIGHTS.
Of course, people are people.
@@CoffeePotato Hella attractive.
:o First comment?
Possibly 🤔
@@CoffeePotato MOMMM, POTATO NOTICED ME!
Lol 😜 Excellent content Potato. I like your adlib/scripted style. 👌
Thanks! It's annoying to some, but convenient for my schedule.
Since you ramble endlessly, at least give us timestamps
Someone usually does out of sheer frustration.