The Truth About Matching Amplifier Power to Loudspeakers
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2016
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www.audioholics.com - The Truth about Matching Amplifier Power to Speakers. In this video Gene and Hugo discuss the all the details about matching amplifier power to speakers. Is this something one should consider when buying amplifiers and loudspeakers or is it one of those myths? We discuss how loudspeaker power handling is often not well stated and how program material can affect how much power a loudspeaker can actually handle.
For more on this subject:
www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...
Loudspeakers & Power Ratings: What's the Deal ?
Part I
www.audioholics.com/loudspeake...
Part II
www.audioholics.com/loudspeake...
Part III
www.audioholics.com/loudspeake...
Also, here are some related materials mentioned on the video:
3:30 - 3:35 : Legacy Focus SE Floorstanding Speakers
www.audioholics.com/tower-spea...
6:35 - 6:40 : Paradigm Reference Floorstanding Speakers
www.audioholics.com/soundbar-a...
6:55 - 7:00 : XTZ Sub/Speaker System
www.audioholics.com/surround-s...
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#amplifier #power #loudspeakers - Věda a technologie
I want life size, cardboard, cutouts of Gene and Hugo to put up in the back of my theater
LOL we'll get those custom made for you right away :)
Audioholics Are the rms different today from the ones from the golden age of stereos because I have vintage 18 rms Sherwood s that seem to have more power than new amps that say there 100watts
Read this: www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/product-managing-receiver-platforms-power-ratings
Hey after close by Virginia Beach or the Outer Banks I'm come by my house
That would actually be epic - except Gene should be dressed as The Terminator. And, you guessed it, Huge as THE HULK (I was about to correct the typo from Huge to Hugo then I was like... oh HELL no, so I left it... I thought it would make him happy, even if I'm 5 years late to the Audioholics party)
Back in the 60's I was given the advice: Too much (clean)Power will not destroy a speaker, distortion will. I guess the corollary would be the cleaner the amp, the safer the speaker. The efficiency of the speaker is probably also more important than the "power capacity".
This has served me well over the years. I am using a pair of 30yr old CV351s that needed a resurround due to age. A pair of Klipsch Forte IIs that are going strong after 26yrs, I did replace the X-over on them. However, I also have a Klipsch powered subwoofer that needed a complete rebuild because the amp went bad.
Efficiency isn't a measure of sound quality. The best speakers I've heard all fall between 84-93db 1w/1m. Super-effiicient speakers all sound like ear-bleeders to me. Harsh, in-your face horns. Nasty, cheap phenolic drivers behind a metal horn throat that rings like a bell.. Harsh compression midrange drivers. Piezo horn tweeters. No thanks.
The lighting and video quality is so much better on this video! A little blue but so much better than before! Thank you guys!
Nice point about the harmonics from clipping. I try to explain that to neophytes, but without graphic aids, it's hard to get through. My first good stereo had a 40 wpc integrated amp and a nice pair of 3-way speakers. Although the amp featured (new for then) LED power meters, I was regularly losing tweeters to clipping as I tried to get just a little more loudness. Same speakers with a 100 wpc amp, no problem. Later I had speakers rated at 75W apiece, and used a 300 wpc amp to drive them. As long as the pre-clipping lights never came on, the speakers never complained. A drunk friend who knew better finally destroyed all the drivers by "turning it up to 11" (and ended our friendship) after a decade of abuse, but I never lost a driver before that.
my standard for sizing an amp is get one that matches or is greater than the peak power rating on the speaker. You will have all the power the speaker can ever demand, crystal sound at all volume levels as long as you don't go overboard. My Onkyo TX RZ820 has a max volume setting. I set my gain, turn it up till clip lights blink a little, back it down a couple of db then lock it in and "11" is really only 7, but no one knows that cause if you turn it up to 5 my house starts shaking. I have 15" fronts on a 500wpc amp. I know this is old, just a great topic
Thanks for the Video! Helpful and live long and Prosper! So I just got a H&H 800W Tube Mos FET AMP, and 2 martin audio EM76s rated at 200W AES. It's 2 way driver... any good source info on how to hook these up proper.. also got no mixer yet... can i plug in line level to test these pups? cheers
Gene, Hugo, many thanks!
I had this issue bugging me some weeks ago, when I bought Atohm GT1 shelf speakers 100W RMS, 200W peak @ 6 ohm. I received suggestions to go for an integrated that would serve 200W RMS @ 8 ohm, but settled for a Lumin M1, that only serves 60W @ 8 ohm, and sounds just great for my current level of understanding.
I pissed off a lot of people during my research, including Crown Audio and Atohm engineers. I held my patience and did not write to you, but you somehow sensed the need and published this video. So, now my simple question is - Should I plan to upgrade the amp to "more"?
Thanks!
At lower volume you are fine, around 80wpc @6ohms but if you try to play loud it will start to distort, you would be amazed at the difference with a bigger amp. I own CERWIN-VEGA! SL15 100w RMS 400w peak speakers. Because my speakers are capable of drawing 400w I have a 500wpc amp so any amount of power my speakers need is there. It's called headroom. My Onkyo TX RZ820 has a max volume setting, to set up my amp I set the gain, turn up volume till I hit clip(very, very loud) then back it down a few db and lock that in as max volume. I can crank it as loud as I want, get crystal clear sound, and never worry about blowing speakers or frying amp. Plus with a proper amp the bass really hits like it's supposed to. Edit: I thought it said posted 3 weeks ago. Sorry if i'm bugging you
thank you for your video.
i would like to ask you,can i match the cerwin vega cvp-2153 PA speakers with a stereo amplifier e.g. the Vincent sv-236?
thank you in advance.
How about a recommended list of reference concert DVD's & Blu Ray's based on recording quality? I'm always looking for reference quality recordings.
I have pair of SDAT SB-E850 & well I have 0 clue into home theater sound. So I need an amp to run this system. Any suggestions?
Good evening Mr DellaSala,
Just view your video. Very awesome. I had a question though. When it comes to power there seem to be 2 schools of thoughts. one of them is that you should only take the speaker sensitivity into consideration and the peak db level you want to listen to in order to determine the proper power amp. Meaning if your speakers are 90db sensitive and you want to reach 105 db at the listening location then your power amp need to deliver 32 watts per channel .......what do you think about this theory does it make sense ?
just got my elac uni-fi bookshelves, I'm looking at the emotiva A-100 A-150 or the A-300. please help, the room size is 20x16 with about 10foot ceiling.
I have a Pioneer 84TXSi AV 7.1, which was Pioneer's flag ship decrete amplifier at the time, in 2006), matched with Paradigm Monitor 7.v6 series speakers.
I'm wondering what is your impression on this Class B amplifier and should I add a power amplifier such as Emotiva A-5175?
The reason for my question is due to the 84TXSi's over all power performance of 77W (all channels driven @ 8 ohms) and 140W (2 channels driven @8 ohms) respectfully. Will adding a power amplifier smooth out the overall power output,Thank you.
I have a question. I have a marantz 6011 and have gotten the whole Sony core series and they are all rated at 6 ohms and am considering getting ceiling speakers for atmos. Most of the ceiling speakers are 8 ohms and I was wondering if it would be ok do go ahead and get those or is it imperative that I get 6 ohm ceiling speakers? Also if everything is in 6 ohms should I switch the receiver to 6 ohm limit or leave it at the standar settings? Sorry for the noob question. I haven't got anything installed everything is still in the box but yeah I'd like to know your opinion on which speakers to go with. Yamaha has a 6 ohm speaker along with monoprice and monitor audio but they are kind of pricey per unit. If 8 ohms is fine I'll be getting some cheaper Yamaha speakers ns series. Thanks in advance any help is appreciated.
i have purchased 6 ceiling speaker at 20-350 watts per speaker. the impedance listed at 8 ohms and 95 db .
my amplifier is a wall mounted two channel at 20 watts per channel total 40 watt output. the impedance rating is 4 and 8 ohms. the back of the amplifier allows for 2 speaker connection
can i connect all 6 speakers to this amplifier? 3 speaker per connection. how would the sound quality be? is there a chance to damage the speakers or amplifier? thank you
I always hear that more power/watts is better. I have the klipsch rp8000f with a denon 3600h that gives out 80 watts with 5 channels driven. The speakers are rated at 150rms so my question is do I need an amplifier with 250+ watts like an emotiva or something more like an outlaw 5000x which does 120 watts all channels driven? Would any of those 2 amps be beneficial in someway? I always hear how an amp puts out clean power and helps with dynamic and quality but I’m not sure how much power I really need.
I have a 1974 SONY STR-7045, 100 WATS MAX PER CHANNEL. And JBL LOFT 50,S 250 WATS EACH TOWERS and JBL ES 30 BOOKSHELF 280 WATS EACH. Should I have more amp wats for better low volume sound ?
Hey can someone tell me if Blaupunkt make good 4 way 120 rms speaker cause I'm trying to decide between them and pioneers
starting with the concept of bi-amping 3 front speakers in a multitasking simpler 5.x home theater / 2.x music listening setup, are there particular advantages that such a layout would offer towards a solution to the problems mentioned in this video regarding clipping damage or is it just as well to focus on the power capabilities that still deliver clean outputs for a set up that's not bi-amped especially considering the complexities of multiple home theater channel sound amplification, preamps / processors therein ? ... I've become curious about offerings that have multiple single-channel amplifiers in a cabinet that state they output quite a lot of power albeit I don't know whether they used pink noise or white noise for the specs. it seems to be reasonable legacy investment and risk vs reward if said amplifier delivers plenty of clean headroom/program/burst power above & beyond the appreciated output and efficiency used by the speakers.
@Audioholics I am intending to buy a pair of Martin Logan Motion 40 and a receiver Marantz 7011. Someone suggested me to get a ext amp Peachtree Nova 300 to power the Motion 40. Isn't the Peachtree that runs @ 4ohm 450w too powerful for the speakers that only run maximum at 300w 4ohm ? Please help me understand better
Please help i have 500 watt BM subwoofer, now i have to purchase amp how much watt should i buy for great bass?
Where's the hearing loss article referred to in the vid?
Thanks for doing this video. Its explained very simply and easy to understand.
I need to know if this amp and speaker will match. Proel M1500USB Powered Mixer to 2 Alto MS15 Passive Speakers.
The Powered mixer has Output Power (THD
I have a topic you could talk about. How about covering protecting your home theater setup. Surge protectors, UPC's, power conditioners, ect.
You probably want to go to a channel that actual gives you good, actionable information. This channel talks a lot but doesn't really give you any specific information and they don't perform any tests that you can verify with your own test or measurement so there is no useful information here.
A good place to start is with a UPS that outputs true wine wave power. This will condition your power (by regenerating it to a clean signal), provide protection against spikes (you biggest threat) and provide enough battery operation time to shut your system down safely in case of a power outage. A reliable company that has worked very well for us is APC that offers good models such as the: APC 1500VA Smart-UPS with SmartConnect, Pure Sine Wave UPS Battery Backup & Surge Protection (SMT1500C) amzn.to/2KR1XLW
For power line protection, I would highly recommend Zero-Surge (Frenchtown, NJ). They make a variety of very well built surge suppression units. Furman uses the same technology for theirs. They do NOT use Metal oxide varistor. as cheaper units use. That CAN literally BLOW UP and catch fire. zerosurge.com/surge-suppression/ We have used these for close to 20 years at my work to protect computers. The link I supplied explains how they work.
I have been thinking about matching my speakers to my amp for a while. It’s usually the ohms I look at. My recover has two output channels (pioneer sa1270) recommends 6 to 8 ohms. I have a pair of pioneer CS-G303 and a pair of pioneer CS-77 and the CS-77 is 6 ohms and the CS-G303 is 8 ohms rated respectfully.
Ok I have a pair of Polk audio RTI A7 rated 20-300 watts rms??? How much power do they "need" to drive them properly???
It was a nice video and I appreciate the disclosure, but I feel no further from a helpful resolution... Its missing a simple take away or "rule of thumb"
My rule of thumb is get as big an amp as you can afford, the more power the better. You guys are way more technical than me. If my speaker is rated 400w peak, ideally my amp is at least 400wpc so there is enough power on reserve for whatever the speaker demands at any given time.
Good video guys!! Informative & something I really noticed was that the sound quality was EXCELLENT. One of the best sounding videos you've made to date. Thank you for hearing is out on past posts. I know I've requested the audio to be improved one time, you guys responded that you were working on it & to be patient. Well the patience has paid off. Looking forward to the next upload...ill keep listening ;)
When connecting from power amp to active speakers, can I use microphone cable or speaker cable?
Thanks for your time and expertise guys
Im 63 y/o and I cant hear anything above 12khz. Test yourself by downloading the frequencies,youll be surprised more often than not!
I can hear up to 18khz, but I'm half your age...
@Jaime Almeida, because of my job I’ve been getting hearing exams annually, trust me you ain’t hearing an 18k signal.
@@Carl-bd1rf Many studies have concluded a healthy human can hear from 20 to 20000 hz.
Most people below age 24 can hear up to 18000hz (I do).
At 19000hz it's silent for me.
Test it yourself: czcams.com/video/VxcbppCX6Rk/video.html
Yep, only 10k here. Over 20k easy when I was in my early 20s.
I am 63 also and i cannot hear my wife anymore.
Great video guys...no one really ever deals with this subject much in the home audio world, but in the car audio world it is big! It has been my experience, that more power is better too, even to the tweeters.
There are some tools out there to measure distortion and show clipping, for setting gains to prevent it as best you can, but some sources out there that are just pure distortion unfortunately.
Being a movie nut and a regular at the local IMAX enough to make friends with the manager(s), they told me of a big issue they were having with the movie XXX (triple X) and the avalanche scene blowing their speakers all the time. I told them I have the fix and he was like we had three tech's in and 1 engineer in and they couldn't solve it. Simply put they were under driving massive speakers (twin 22" flanking a massive horn) with only 200 watts powering; compounding the issue the source sound was recorded too high resulting in mostly distortion that was not cleaned up in post. I told them to buy the most powerful amps they could source from their suppliers (2000 watts, and the volume is set on 2 now), and they have never had another issue blowing a speaker in 15 years, plus I get free screenings!
Here is a link to the video of the most popular tool for car audio industry...DD-1
czcams.com/video/np0lpIiSesU/video.html
0:11 You're pumped up Gene? Hugo's the one who's pumped up... ;) Keep up the great video's guys.
i have an Adcom amplifier that inflates my speakers... please help..
How do i get rid of PCM from my yamaha amp?
I have tried Klipsh, Golden Ear, JBL, Altec, Polk and Bose with the same Sony receiver. The difference was amazing to me. The price range of these speakers are 1K up. In the past, I bought my own speakers for cabinets I have made. I have tried different cross overs as well. These men are experts.
Early in the 1800's the Frenchman, Joseph Fourier, realized that any periodic waveform is equivalent to a summation of sines and/or cosines where each has a particular frequency and amplitude. Each of these sine or cosine wave forms is called a component of the Fourier series. The only frequencies present are the frequency of the original waveform, called the fundamental frequency, and integer multiples of the fundamental, called harmonics. The amplitude of each frequency can be calculated. If the original waveform represents a voltage applied across a resistance, then the amplitude of each of the sines and cosines corresponds to the voltage of each of the Fourier components. Since the amplitude of a sine wave is the height of the peak, then the power that that sine wave delivers to a resistance of R ohms is the square of the amplitude divided by (2 x R). If we have an amplifier that can continuously supply a sinusoidal waveform of amplitude, say 28.28 volts peak, to a resistance of 8 ohms, and the amplifier is on the verge of clipping, then we could safely call that a 50-W amplifier. If the input signal were large enough and there was no limiter, then the signal could be increased into clipping by the amplifier. The worst case of clipping would be for the sinusoidal waveform to be made into a square wave. The amplitude of the fundamental sinusoidal Fourier component of a square wave is 4/pi x 28.28 = 1.273 x 28.28 = 36.0 Vpeak, and the power to the 8-ohm resistor is 81.0 W (36 x 36/(2 x 8)). In the case of a clipped sinusoidal signal, there are no even harmonics. The only harmonics are at odd multiples of the fundamental frequency. Therefore, there is a harmonic at 3 times the fundamental. It's amplitude is 12.0 Vpeak. The power supplied to the 8-ohm resistance by this harmonic is a mere 9.01 W. The amplitude of the harmonic with a frequency of 5 times the fundamental is 7.20 Vp, and the power supplied is 3.24 W. The numbers for the harmonic at 7 times the frequency, are 5.14 Vp and 1.65 W. For 9 times the frequency, 4.00 Vp and 1.00 W. The total amount of power delivered to the 8-ohm resistance by the square wave is the square of the amplitude of the square wave (28.28 Vp)^2 divided by 8 ohms = 100.0 W. So, for all square waves (and very severely clipped sine waves), 81% of the total power is in the fundamental, 9.0% at 3 times the fundamental freq., 3.24% at 5 time the freq., 1.65% at 7 times, and so on. Based on what I have said up to now, I think it highly unlikely that there would be enough power in the harmonics of a clipped sine wave to damage a tweeter, unless the fundamental frequency of the clipped sinusoidal wave is above the cross-over frequency. In that case even the 81% of the power would be applied to the tweeter.
I've done more looking into this matter of clipping since I wrote the first part of this post. I have made a graph of the instantaneous power (as opposed to the average power over time) of the Fourier coefficients at 7 times the fundamental frequency (tweeter frequencies in my case) and above, and I see that there are 4 instantaneous power peaks per period of the clipped sinusoidal waveform, each peak occurs at the "corners" of the clipped waveform. The amplitude of the power peaks can be greater than 6 times the average power in those selected frequencies, depending on how much of the waveform is clipped. These power peaks in the signals fed to the tweeter may very well be the reason that clipped wave forms cause tweeter drivers to fail.
Didn't cover under powered speaker issues. I have a pair of 1978 Sansui sp3500 rated @100 watts and are very well driven by a nak TA-1A Stasis amp rated @45 watts! And my Avid 103s are half as loud but still sounds great.
Just curious on your opinion of an outlaw audio 5000 with a Sonus Faber chameleon tower/bookshelf/center 5.2 system. I am running an SR5008 as the pre/pro with svs sb12-nsd subs.
+Anthony morel I have been attending classes at AUDIOHOLICS for the last eight or so months and I take the liberty of answering your questions as Gene n Hugo I guess r deep in research for next class. But with dat system yu gat, you r good to go. 😆😆😆😆😆
holy crap just noticed the audio and video quality is awesome lol, i am so us-to the quality of the other videos :)
I have a denon avr s730h specs 75 wpc @ 8ohms 2 ch driven. 110 wpc @ 6 ohms and 130 wpc @ 4 ohms. If I set the avr @ 4 ohms, can I connect 8 ohms speakers with 100 watts and not damage avr or speaker?
Your avr is only capable of 75wpc with 8ohm speakers. You don't get more wpc by going to 4ohms if that's your plan. It's an ohms law calculation from the amps rated wattage divided by the speaker resistance. Whether it will damage it or not I don't know. I am an electrician, but not a technician
They forgot one thing about clipping. Since the wave form becomes more SQUARE wave form at the peaks, the sustained voltage does NOT allow the voice coil to move. It is forced to one end or the other of the throw. Voice coils rely on the movement to move the air which cools the coil. By NOT moving for long durations the cooling is not happening and the current in the coil is higher than normal and causes excessive heat. That is what burns up the voice coils.
that one factor but that rarely a problem for guitar speakers which are feed square waves all time by fuzz effects or over drives. An audio signal is more complex than guitar signal and when clips it increase harmonics all over the place. the harmonics outside of range of speaker cause a lot more damage. if my speaker frequency range is 100 hz to 5000 hz and feed it square wave at 120 hz and derate by 30 percent that speaker will do just fine. feed a speaker a square wave at 5001 hz at same power and my speaker may fry.
Will more wattage produce better bass from the same speaker system?
I want to see Gene and Hugo's silhouettes in an episode of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 with an infomercial for Audioquest playing. Now that would be entertaining!
Audioholics, so if i look at 2 lovely speakers from VEF RRR that are per piece rated at: Ω 8, 3 channel floor speaker, Hz 25-25000, freq. split Hz 500 / 5000, RMS W 300 , dB 89, 23 kg
or
RRR speaker: Ω 4, Hz 25-25000, 4 channel floor speaker, freq. split. Hz 350/700/5000,RMS W 400, dB 89, kg 28.5
Then I need some bad @ss receiver, that gives at least 300W/400W per channel with respective 8/4 ohm. Is That right? And task is not easy, cant really find those that look nice (meant for) inside the living room. Any suggestions on some price/quality product?
I was trying to find the link to the article about hearing loss but I couldn't.
It's still under peer review. Sorry. I will link it up when it's live.
What about sensitivity or efficiency? You did not mention that.
I need help. I have the Sony STR DN1040, it's obviously one of the bullshit AV out there since it says 165W x 7. It is measured at 1khz. I had been using it for 2 years with some Klipsch satellite speakers rated 8ohm. They worked fine until last weak when the right speaker started sounding bad. My question here, can I use the Polk Floor Standing Speakers, the T50'S? it says they are rated 6 ohm. I'm really lost here, please any help would be greatly appreciated.
To ; Daniel Lourido ; I reed what you were concerned about when you mentioned about paring the right set of speakers to a home theater amp matching the ohms. What I learned from my experience is that when you put all types of ohm loads on an 'amp' like for example; 2, 4, 6 or possibly even ' 8 ohm ' load speakers all together with the other 3 types of ohms included ' it can be very bad for the amp ' if you turn up the volume ' too high ' you can actually ' burn out ' your amp. But lets say you bought a new amp for the first time, the only one you ever had and you want to ' buy speakers for it ', the amp says that the recommended ohm load per channel is ' 8 ohms ' and you want to buy a good set of speakers for the amp that ' sounds good ', you could try ' 8 ohm' load speakers to go with the amp because it will sound much better than if you buy speakers that only drops the ohm load to a ' dangerous level 'for example; 2, 4, or possibly even ' 6 ohms ' all together. And about watts, do your proper research about watts because it also depends on the amount of money you spend most of the times in these days because you may hear that a speaker or amp may say one thing about watts but when you put it to the test it may turn out to be a ' disappointment ' when you realize what it can do. Their is also a difference in the quality of sound being produced through the speakers them selves when you crank up the ' volume ' to nearly its ' full potential ' and there is less the possibility of ' frying the amp'. And also it depends on what types of speakers you use' so you have to pay ' careful attention ' to what types of speakers you listen to before you decide buy any thing to avoid further consequences down the line ' including ' it depends on what you prefer to listen to because not all speakers are the same ' but the sound depends on what you prefer to listen to '. If you have any further questions ' you can e-mail me ' at ; gutierrezanthony402@yahoo.com and that way we can stay in touch if you need any further ' assistance' involving audio equipment for homes. Thanks for taking the time to read this letter - Anthony.
Yes you can use the Polk t%). Although rate at 6 Ohms, that really is an insufficient measurement of the speakers true impedance because it various according to frequency. The Sony will always be putting out clean (non-distorted) power to the Folks so they will sound just fine. Since the Polls are tased at 90dB efficiency, you would have to blast your system at concert hall levels for excessive periods of time before you melt any of the Polk's performance.
If a 300 watt 8 ohm speaker/cabinet is parallel wired to a separate 300 watt 8 ohm speaker/cabinet (reducing the load to 4 ohms) then hooked up to a 600 watts per channel (@ 4 ohms) amp, how many watts (if run at full power/600 watts) would the amp deliver to 'each speaker' please? (This speaker load would be the same for the second amp channel also = 4 cabinets/2 cabinets per channel)
Each speaker would receive 300 watts. You are loading down the amp to 4 ohms and because each speaker is 8 ohms the current is shared equally.
I don't think that you needed the Schwarzenegger pic. Should have used Hugo.
LOL! Thx man.
MY Earszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !
HugoRiveraFitness I need your bike and your clothes.
This is all very true. It is all common sense because you will literally hear a speaker failing instantaneously. I'm glad you guys made a video about this because most people think these things are way more complex than they really are. Nice work! 😆😆😆
You can hear when your speaker\amplifier begins to reach outside of it's design limits... If you listen you will know when you've gone too far... When things begin to thin out or bottom out just bring back the volume to restore proper operating balance and fullness... The key is to get to know your system's capabilities by SLOWLY turning up the volume using various different source material and listening for EARLY cues that you are hitting the wall, then pull back and don't go there again.
That's how I do it. My onkyo has a max volume lock. I figure my clip limit, back it down a couple db and lock it in. I can crank it as much as I need with no worries and plenty of headroom
thanks got It but starting understand it I can have matching wattage as long as don't crank it up?but my center channel 120 watts left and right are 150 watts and amp is 170?
This video did not explain it well. If you keep your volume levels below the point where there is distortion (clipping, etc.) the you are fine. When an amplifier clips, the amount of distortion it produces is massive, it can easily push out all of the amplifier's power, and what makes it dangerous us that too much of it is experienced by the speaker as being continuous high frequency power so the tweeter often melts its voice coil or is mechanically damaged. If you want to guarantee that this cannot happen to you then you would use speakers that are rated at ten times time power level of the amplifier (ex: 50 watt amp with 500 was speakers), in this example the speakers should be able to withstand the distortion long enough to not be damaged while you decided to turn the volume down.
Most of the time its not a problem as long as the speakers are rated at or above the amplifier rating, for normal listening to music or watching movies. If you like loud special effects in your movies then make sure your amp ad speaker are both rated for high power.
get an amp rated at east as high as your peak power rating of your speakers, they will never distort, you'll have plenty of headroom, clear sound at all volume levels. your ears and clip indicators will tell you if the volume is to high. underpowering speakers is the worst thing you can do
Maybe a strong argument for active speakers, where the matching has been done by the manufacturer?
Did you just call Time by Pink Floyd "The Clock Song"
yea a gaffe ;)
OMG! Fark!..Sacrilege, I can't believe they said that.
I love Mr. Floyd's "Clock Song" and his "Cash Register Song" too!!!
Sweet songs, both, lol :-P
Back in the u.s.s.r. is the jet plain song don't you know.
Typical, high quality content and information -- thank you.
Correct, but modern output limiters on amps prevent tweeters being blown if the amps and cabs are matched properly. The whole "buy double the power you need" doesn't really apply anymore. Buy amps that are accurately rated, match them appropriately taking into account impedance and number of cabs used, and run the cabs and the amps only up to half their capacity. Place subs, for instance, in corners so you can get more gain in the room for less voltage. Treat that room acoustically so you don't feel the need to crank it up to push past the distortion introduced by the room surfaces. Speakers will sound better and last; amp will sound better and last longer. If the output limiter on the amp ever triggers, turn it way down, let the amp and speakers cool for a minute and then turn it to back up to half the voltage or less (-6dBVu) what you had it before. Yes, more and better is useful, as you are further away from its limits at lower volumes, thus lower distortion at the levels you use the system. This is particularly useful for the speakers themselves, as even in their linear range, it's still a linear increase in distortion as voltage rises.
Really good stuff guys. Hugo, seems like you're loosing muscles, do you meed more workout?
When I did research about matching loud speakers and amps, I should not match 200 watt to 200 watts need at less 250 wattsso don't clip and other stuff??
Please rewatch the video as we discuss this in detail.
It's mostly about content you're playing, a movie/song is louder than other.
I have 100W with 6-ohm nominal and amp with 135W on 6-ohm and on movies at -25 main volume, the driver moves like crazy but I barely hear the bass, so it's NOT about loudness. I can play rock at insane levels but I can't play hip-hop or movies at insane levels, that's the point. I got a subwoofer to cut 60hz and below and now I don't have a problem. On movies, at -10 main volume, with 150W speakers, I still need to put crossover at 80hz, at 60hz is still too powerful for speakers, even if speakers have 40hz+ response. So matching speakers to amp, is very important. With 150W amp, I bottomed out almost every time, even if I barely heard the speaker. Also I want to mention that when I had 100W amp, I could go to 0dB main volume without damaging the speaker or bottoming out, now with 135W amp at -10dB is insanely loud, well I never tried -10 dB because I may destroy them but at-20 dB is very loud.
I can remember the Klipsch Corner horns driven with my Sony Walkman in the 70's it was so loud it would drive you out of the room. It does not take much power to drive most speakers these days given that we have subs taking on a lot of that power need away from the amp and using it's own internal amp but the power you do have needs to be clean high current. Most persons do not know how loud you can get music to play at 8 watts of actual usable high quality power.
Off my mid highs 8 watts is noisy club loud and off my subs groovily loud but not thunderous. In a small room one of subs off a lepai 2020a was quite impressive.
Are there plans to review and measure the new offerings from ELAC?
yes we have 2 reviews of the Debut series that will publish soon.
Thank you! Great video.
Clipping is your enemy! Always get a receiver or amp that is far beyond the speakers rated capabilities. No distortion, no failure. Simplistic to be sure, but a rule to live by.
I think you must mean far below the rated speakers rated capabilities. The speaker RMS rating should at least match but preferably exceed the rating of the amplifier by a factor of 2 to prevent overloading the output stage if you want to use the system at higher volume levels. The impedance of the speaker must be within the acceptable limits of the amp (obviously) and finally keep the volume down to levels such that you dont over saturate the speakers and they will last a lifetime.
@@cbcdesign001 its not the watts or little bit more power that kills the drivers,its distortion that kills them.Its always recommended to have an amp that is double the power of the speakers Rms rating.
100% correct sir. You cant have enough headroom
@@cbcdesign001 No, that is not correct. You want as much power available as possible, so your speakers can draw what they need w/o straining the amp. Cranking up the volume won't hurt the speakers if they are powered properly and you don't get stupid. Without enough power the amp will clip, killing the amp and killing the speakers.
NECCESARY video!
I can't remember how many times my friends have told me, with great proud, the amount of watts their LOUDSPEAKERS had ( ! ).
To explain them that wattage AMPLIFICATION and LOUDSPEAKERS POWER HANDLING are different, but related, things has costed me more than an angry argumentation.
This state of things is simply because, today, most manufacturers hide, as you point out, the real valuable specs and most retailers, of the few who last, don't have any idea about what they're selling.
Next time someone will ask me HOW MANY WATTS my speakers have, I will run fast like the devil.
audioholics i need help can you help me ? about amplifier and speakers
Here's a question for you: What if you have an amplifier that's way more powerful than you speakers, like say 4x the RMS power, but you just don't crank it up? Seems to me it would be ok. Lots of headroom. I could see it being a problem if you turn it up way past the power rating of the speakers, they will be overdriven.
Speaker power ratings are pretty often nebulous. More power is better than less power to avoid clipping and distortion. If the speakers sound distorted or compressed, lower the volume.
Consider a speaker's power output limit is rated as 20 to 150 watts... What happens to the speakers if the speaker is powered by just 8 to 12 watts of output power?????
They will still work, not loud, most normal listening is usually below 1 watt
Not what I thought this video would be. Not sure what I thought it would be to be honest, but it wasn't this lol. I guess I was thinking matching amps to certain loads, speaker designs/types and minimum power requirements to drive them. Some speakers require more power to run them correctly.
Most well made speakers, and by well made I just mean decent speakers not really expensive ones, can handle much more musical power than they are rated for. Especially once they are in a proper enclosure. Like they have said before, constant tones and pink noise can destroy a driver. Program material like music and stuff isn't quite as demanding because it is always changing, it isn't a constant load. When I was younger in the 80's I built quite a few speakers using radio shack drivers. Some were only rated at 50 watts. I had no trouble driving them to 200 watts and never ruined a midrange or woofer doing it once they were in a box. I have ruined tweeters by not using cross overs or running them with too little power. Not sure why that happens, but it did and I have been told it is an issue sometimes.
I would be willing to bet for most of the people buying an average speaker 100-400 dollars a speaker and your off the shelf receiver rated at 100 watts or so you are never going to blow a speaker. I have yet to do it in over 30 years. Not even with car audio using amps rated at 400 watts or more. I have ruined some amps, but never a driver. That is something else they didn't cover, is using an amp that is not powerful enough. Some of these more expensive speakers require more power to run them, or can dip to pretty low ohm loads. If your amp can't handle it will have to work its butt off and over heat and/or fail. Which could also damage the speakers.
Sure, if I hook up my cheap 100 dollar polk towers to a high end 1000 watt amp you can freakin weld with and crank it up it will physically destroy them. That is just common sense. However for most of the normal people that run out to best buy and get a set of speakers and a receiver this is probably never going to be an issue. Now if you take a 300 dollar sony receiver (or similar) and hook up a bunch of planar speakers that have low sensitivity and low impedance you are probably going to have some problems. Most likely the amp will just keep shutting off though, but you never know.
Noone has commented on the lamp reacting to their voices? And it has a galaxy on it!
Great video. My humble NAD 3155 integrated walks all over every Harmon Kardon, Denon or Sony ES receiver I've ever owned. It even drives my bloodthirsty KEF LS50's just fine in a medium-sized room. Best amp I've ever owned.
of course it does, they are receivers, your NAD is an amp. Receivers are made to process and distribute sound primarily. there amps are weak, even the High end ones
audio there is something im really confused.. some say the speakers must have more wattage than the amp coz if the amp has more wattage than the speaker.. the amp will burn the speakers? then some others say the amp must have more wattage than the speakers coz if the speakers have more wattage than the amp.. tendency amp will burn! im really confuse bigtime so which really is which mr audioholics???
All of the above is true, You are confused because this video does not explain this subject well enough.
If you allow an amplifier to see distortion to the speaker then the speaker is likely to be damaged.
If you send more power to the speaker than the speaker is rated for, for too long a time, then the speaker can be damaged.
The easiest way to handle this is to get a speaker that is rated at the same level, or higher, as the amplifier then make sure that you do not drive the speakers into distortion (even for a moment). If you cannot do that then use a speaker that is rated at ten times the rating of the amplifier.
Concur, power is good. Generally more power is better. I'm using a couple Crown 2500s, each pushing a 350wrms 4-ohm sub and an Odyssey Lorelei (about 6 ohms and 150wrms) without any problems. I don't get stupid with the volume and I have lots of headroom. The amps are loafing.
I have a set of two tall floor standing speakers. 200watts @ 4ohms, per speaker......please could anyone tll me what amp rating i need and should be looking for. i want to use these to complete my karaoke setup......i am totaly suffering from info overload and need just a straight answere......plain and simple is best...LIKE ME LOL. Thankyou for any advice....PLEASE
If you never ever want risk blowing y the speakers dues to distortion (clipping) from the amplifier, then use a 20 watt amplifier. If you are a reasonable person and will keep the volume level turned down to below the point of distortion then you can use an amp with anywhere from 20 to 200 watts.
So, turning up the volume too much on an amp without enough wattage is what blows the tweeter / speakers right? That is how clipping happens, right? You left that part out. It isn't having too many amps, but not enough for the speakers. Having too many watts isn't going to hurt it I think. And you likely won't turn it up to full volume if the wattage is a little higher than the speakers range.
Distortion of tweeters is easily audible. Low frequencies are harder to define. Under 100 Hz, 10% distortion can’t be heard by the majority.
I used to have a 100 wpc at 8 ohms yamaha powering my speakers and I would get the common "hissing" noise from my tweeter. Recently, I got a Emotiva XPA gen 2 which has 300 wpc at 8 ohms, and the tweeter makes a really distorted and horrible noise when you get up close. Is there any chance I'm damaging my speakers with the Emotiva?
A tweeter might handle 50w? More like 5w. For a typical home audio product anyway. Even PA compression tweeters are only rated for like 20-30w.
Better ones go to like 100-120w
When I hear all this talk, I am wondering just HOW loud are you guys listening?! When does this ever become a problem? I have 2x 250W in to speakers rated 90-140W, and before I ever start worrying about my system, I start worrying about the neighbours...
True.
I second that
because your amp is sized properly. if it was too small it would sound like s*** before you got there
im struggling with my setup i have b&w bookshelf 5.1 system. but the system needs to be running at between -20 and 0db to get decent volume and always sounds quiet. just cant work it out
Jonathan Roebuck what model are they? and what receiver are you using?
Erick Lopez Hi! I'm using a Denon AVRX2000 which is 95w into 8 ohms if i remember correctly
what size is your room?
Quite large 3.5m by 3.5m i would guess. With an open bit leading to kitchen which is closed off with a door
what kind of speakers are they? what model?
One time a person asked me what it hertz... i said, love hertz
I heard the warnings but I still don't see an end to the "under powered/over powered" amp theories
I always say to people its the amp that produces the sound not the speakers. The speaker just does what the amp tells it. I Always go by the rule that as long as the amp don't exceed the max power handling of a speaker your good. I go for about 20% more then the speakers RMS and I ignore the max power unless my amp is 30-40% more so I know my max volume I can go on my amp so I don't drastically shorten the lifespan of the drivers. Under powering is way way way worse and I hear so many people say well as least you won't blow your speaker wrong wrong so wrong. If a speaker say its 50 RMS then the amp must at least match it or the amp will clip as that speaker will demand 50 watts and if your amp can't it will clip the signal and boom buy buy speaker. Good but you won't have any headroom in the amp if its matched always go over and don't push the amp and your speakers won't distort
How do you compare what you're stating with Nelson Pass's claim that it's the first watt that is most important?
Hence Nelson's First Watt product line
I think that's a big marketing claim. Getting the first watt clean is very easy. Nelson amps tend to measure very poorly at high power likely b/c they employ minimal feedback. I reviewed the X350.5 and was not impressed at how it measured.
+Audioholics Hard for me to understand, the review you wrote concluded in what I read as a rave review, it's said:
Incredible looks, pristine fidelity, plenty of juice, the Pass Lab’s X350.5 will surely satisfy even the most discriminating listener. It took me over two months of listening to commit anything to writing as I was enjoying my experience with this amplifier that much. I am confident Optimus Prime would be equally impressed with this amplifier. Audioholic & Audiophile Recommended!
The First watt F7 at $3000 should provide a lot of that quality, but with much less grunt and less power.
I'm really missing something here as from one side I see a rave review, and from another side you claim it's just marketing.
I'm missing something here Gene
+Harald Nipen The amp sounded fine and I enjoyed it till I got the Emotiva XPR-1s which were far more powerful, measured better, and cost about 1/8th the price.
+Audioholics Gene, do you enjoy the music from the Emotivas the same, or even more?
If you at the moment take away the specs and how they measure?
+Harald Nipen on extreme bass intense music, the Emotivas push my speakers much better thanks to their,much bigger power supplies. at much lower listening levels, I don't notice much difference between them.
Very good video guys!
i bought a 400 watts speakers. it sounded like its only 50 watts
Personally, I ignore power handling figures for speakers. I look at speaker sensitivity related to an amp’s RMS output per channel, and the speaker’s impedance curve in relation to the current able to be delivered by the amp. Only a rough guide, though.
Perhaps a video from a HT website should have a white balance done. Takes 10 seconds guys. Information is top notch.
what about running a 60 watt amp into 100 watt RMS speakers? (under powering) what of the amp is a high current Adcom? I've heard that you need to have at least 50% more amp wattage than speaker wattage. Is that true?
The 60 into 100 isn't really a factor. 60w can drive mos speakers to a decent level. What you need to watch for is the amplifier being driven to the point where clipping of the signal occurs. Even a 60w amp when clipping can fry a 100w rated speaker.
I agree. If you take into account speaker efficiency you can see that a speaker rated at 90dB @1 watt will literally blast you with a very loud 90dB sound level (if you share a wall with neighbors they are probably being annoyed at this level) 93 dB would take 2 watts, 96 dB would take 4 watts, 99dB would take 8 watts, and so on so you can see that you can play incredibly loudly without a very big amp. If you have a 60 watt amp with 100watt speakers then you will likely (hopefully) hear distortion before the speaker melts down and you will turn the volume down. If however you are the type that is not bothered by distortion then it is possible to drive the amp to such a high power level that the distortion it produces will damage the speaker right before your eyes.
A 50% margin (60 watt amp, 90 watt speaker) is generally not enough of a safety margin for those that are not sensitive to distortion. I generally recommend to my friend to go with a 5 or 10 times margin, i.e. 60 watt amp mated to speakers rated at 300 to 600 watts. Since power is very inexpensive today, I generally recommend to get as much power as you can afford, so the transients sound good (special effects, etc.) and the signal is clean and clear the rest of the time (just back off if the system has any sign of distortion whatsoever),
@@Billy123bobzzz Most/all amps these days have clipping protection so not really an issue. The amp will shut down momentarily if it detects clipping or lower the volume (as mine does).
@@Taffy84 I'm aware of that. But a lot of folks don't like clipping protection and you really shod not need to drive your equipment so extremely hard that it clips, that just shows that there is something wrong with your configuration. We have amp that have a switch that deactivates clipping protection, which all my friends and I use because it seems to us that during loud passages that do not engage skipping protection, the sound quality gets muffled (so obviously the clipping protection is actually affecting sound quality well before clipping actual happens). We do use amps and speakers that are well matched now and do not ever get near clipping because the amp has plenty of headroom and the speakers are so efficient that we spend most oof the time at very low power level, where the amps sound best. For all the amps that have owned, they operate in Class A up to 1 or 5 watts then after that they switch to Class B, so by using a speaker that deliver efficiency of 98 dB at 1 Watt, who his so loud that we never really play hot that loud, so 99% of our listening occurs while the am p should be in Class A mode, which gives us the best quality sound.
@@Billy123bobzzz I just read my manual for my amp and it has clipping protection turned off by default so I am not using clipping protection. Guess I should leave it that way.
I have a corsair sp2500 and they rated the speaker of 230w rms using the iec method for 24hours use.
It means it can handle the power for 24hours non stop.
Pro audio not just need the equipment to play loud, but do so for long durations and last many uses throughout the longevity investment....hope that makes some sense.
If I blow a tweeter that is no longer available, what do I do?
Consult the manufacturer on a suitable replacement or check with Parts Express.
Solid content as always gentlemen
You will get the most performance out of a speaker with a vastly overpowered amplifier but you have to be careful of program content and level if you listen loudly. A less powerful amplifier means you don't have to worry about your kids goosing the volume and blowing them well apart from clipped tweeters
A 100 watt speaker might be able to take a few hundred watts on a sparse kick drum sound with acoustic guitar in the background before mechanical failure, but continuous bass will heat up the woofer and continuous treble the tweeter.
Hi, how are you? I hope fine. My name is Roberto Godoy and I'm from Mexico, I hope too that you can understand my English... I write to you to say thanks because I am arming a home theatre (Onkyo AV RECEIVER TX-SR606; sub woofer, center and surround speakers Yamaha; and Aiwa front speakers bi-amp).
I make all connections and all installation and I know how to do, where I'll put the speakers and they were OK. by the way, I install it in my room. I would like send you pictures about it, but the thing is that the sound doesn't end to line me... Then, watching videos about my receiver, I find one of you and I find some ones about mounting the speakers, the sub, but the one best to me was about frequency calibration. I use to adjust some car audio systems, so I know some about it but the video was very helpful to me and now it sound much much better. and I just want say THANKS YOU VERY MUCH! If you want, I would like send photos of where are front speakers, the sub woofer and the Onkyo receiver... again, thanks a lot!!!
Your friend, Roberto Godoy.
Unfortunately, very few audio amplifier manufacturers actually comply with any legitimate methods for rating power amplifier output. While the FTC did mandate realistic and repeatable power ratings years ago (commonly called RMS at a stated THD level,) nebulous ratings such as "music power" are now common. For instance, I recently purchased (and returned) an Ibanez bass guitar amplifier that was rated at 300 watts of output. It's wall outlet power consumption, however, was 84 watts. Nice trick if you can actually get much more out than you put in. BTW, it had very little clean audio output, so there really was no "magic" going on inside it. Marketing tactics (also known as lies) such as these make speaker-to-amplifier matching voodoo at best, and make comparing amplifiers by specs alone impossible.
Wow you found a device that can magically make power out of thin air for us. Too Cool! LOL
A typical vented 200 watt speaker tuned at 40-50 Hz typically will mechanically destroy at less than 50 watt around 30 Hz . In bass , electrical limits are useless , mechanical limits will put an upperbound on how many watts it can handle
Which is why my DJ system has a fourth order filter at 35.5hz slightly below the box tuning. It can now handle every frequency up to the amplifiers limit. I tried putting a 10-15 Hz signal with the filter off and the cone went crazy even at low power levels so didn't dare turn the amp up.
Very Good!!
So is this a true statement:
I never have to worry about an underpowered amp as long as I never clip the amp trying to get to my desired volume…
In my case, 600 watts driving 2 speakers at 300,600,1200 watts each (jbl prx 412m) … pro audio
Yes?
i get the impression that in the YEARS hugo was such blessed with that position as marketing head he didn't read ONE paper on technical stuff. ONE. we are talking about MARKETING pumping the numbers and HE DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO EXPLAIN. I have seen lots of your videos and he didn't seem to improve on any topic over time
Buy quality speakers with a high sensitivity rating, then buy a quality (not quantity) amp or receiver. My speakers sound very good and loud with only 70w.