DCS World WILL NEVER BE THE SAME! 2.8 AI Dogfight Update!
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2022
- Hey guys! We have all been waiting on the DCS 2.8 Update for a long time now and improvements to the dogfight AI for even longer! Well now we finally have them and I am super stoked to be able to share my thoughts on these improvements.
I really believe DCS World will never be the same after this update, the new AI Dogfighting capabilities absolutely elevates the game to another level and will completely transform the game for those of you guys out there that only fly in Singleplayer.
►►System Specs DCS/Gaming PC:
GPU: GeForce RTX 3090
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Memory: 64 GB RAM 3600mhz
Current resolution: 2560 x 1080, 144Hz
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GPU: GeForce RTX 2080 Ti
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X @ 3.9GHz
Memory: 32GB RAM
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/ spudknocker
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The Sabre being one of my favorite planes this is a God send!
You are going to be so happy!
But Spud, how does the dogfighting AI compare to a real DCS pilot - specifically one who has extensive IRL experience in the infamous Piper Cherokee?
Depends on what you’re flyin! No one can kill you in a Viggen!
@@Spudknocker Certainly not if Sven has a good day :)
@@Spudknockerthat can have multiple meanings
man, it was painfull to watch you trying to rate that f5 at 200knots lol, but great vid, thanks for the work!
His displacement rolls to force your overshoot were very human like. Excellent work, ED!
Exactly!
@@Spudknocker great video, Spud!
the new AI feels a lot more consistent for me now. I spent this whole week doing bfm stuff and it felt like the AI would always do weird things, like literally flying in spirals and whatnot. The new AI feel like they behave a lot more like humans would and they just feel a lot more consistent as I've said
yep ive practiced bfm against multiple ai jets in hornet tomcat and viper not to mention the flaming cliffs modules too. it was almost always had to do vertical dogfights was so annoying and unrealistic
Clean F-16C vs clean Ace F-5E, can't kill it.
Clean F-16C vs clean Ace Mig-15Bis, can't kill it.
Clean F-16C vs clean **TRAINED** Mig-29A, gets the kill in hail mary high angle snapshot after death spiral and forcing overshoot.
I'm almost afraid of dogfighting C-130...
More like Scud is throwing the fights by doing poor energy management (570+) kts and constantly running away from the F-5E.
He just like growling should be able to get kills against the AI. His complaining is going to cause undesired effects the devs may not always act but are always listening.
Can't wait to dogfight in an AC-130... XD
I tried the same against the Mig-21 and of 20 attemts trying to kill it using just the cannon I lose 20 times.
With the F-5 I didn't find the same problem.
I test it flying the F-16C and the F-18C And from the tacview the Mig-21can fly at 500kn 10g with out losing a single knot in any turn.
@@valquiria2328 This is the problem.
@@koc988 yeah thought I was the only one. Like come on an F5? You cant kill an F5 and yet you literally get paid to "teach" people how to fly in DCS? I chalk up his F5 kill as a loss because if he kept going he wouldve ran out of fuel.
So glad you mentioned the F-5e! I thought I was going mad struggling to fight AI F-5es!!
This dogfighting AI Update is TRUELY a game changer, DCS World will never be the same after this update ESPECIALLY for those of you guys who only fly in Singleplayer.
wanted this challenge simulation as in single player nowadays i find no difference between the Arma3 jets and DC's jets..almost similar
I'm also very excited, can't wait to check it! Last monday I fought a BFM duel in a Hornet vs Su-33. I eventually won, but the Flanker kept almost 8 G during entire fight.
Good to hear from you again sir. Really like your videos.
Wow, what a nice improvement. Gotta get back into DCS!
Good video! The new A.I. are a good improvement. Love the new lighting as well.
I've been looking forward to your take on this ever since GS showed us
Ok, so they changed the AI...It gets tougher.
Hopefully, the aircraft and G force limitations would affect them as well or, the SP missions are going to get almost impossible to complete.
Has friendly AI on vet at do dogfights and you focus ground missions if you're not ok with the changes.
Actually, it gets easier! As finally the AI does what a real pilot has to do, because of this little issue called gravity. Before the update the AI would just go vertical and never run out of energy to climb. Now, it actually flies in "normal" maneuvers, so you can finally employ real life counters and maneuvers. The Ace AI is definitely not an easy kill, but I rather train realistic BFM with a high yoyo actually letting you cut his circle, or rolling scissors being a contest of anticipation and speed management, than seconds before lining the AI up in your HUD, it simply pulls up and kick the burners and climbs away, while you struggle against your realistic FM.
16:29 I love the AI, look at that maneuver
The part about MiGs and Sabres in Korea is incorrect @21:27, whereas the MiG-15 excelled in high-altitude engagements as well as in vertical ascensions against that of the Sabre, the Sabre retained better maneuverability at higher speeds (MiG-15 can still maneuver incredibly well, just not as well at it's higher speeds) as well as being a faster aircraft on the deck. Whilst I still think that the AI is overperforming in the energy department I had to come and correct that statement. The MiG-15 is a wild airframe, powerful BRITISH ENGINE, high speeds and of course the rate of climb that allowed it to bait and trap Sabres in vertical engagements.
Edit: The mention of the British engine was because of the UK, they decided to do some friendly tech sharing with the Soviets on jet engines, and the Soviets were told to keep it commercial only, well as you can imagine the Soviets didn't keep it commercial and brought the advancements to the military and that culminated in the MiG-15 and then upgraded said Rolls Royce Engine from the 15 into the 15bis
Gotcha, I was thinking of Sabre pilots performing diving attacks on MiG-15's and used the term vertical incorrectly in that moment
@@Spudknocker All good mate it happens :)
Great content as always and keep up the awesome work.
I just think only the AI has changed and the aircraft and pilot limitations are not there much...
@@jojyrocks well what ever the case is it certainly helps!
Yay better practice and missions 🕺🏼
I just noticed this when flying a Mirage F1 against a Mig-21 and they stopped the ufo over the top nonsense and now fight like what would a human pilot would
However, I have also noticed that they are much harder to fight and from what I was told the older jets still have that floaty flight model and they need to be updated
F5 was fine before this update.
But I mostly fly the Independence Day alien fighter, not the F16.
Thanks for a great demo. This is much bigger than the clouds! Now I will start dogfighting again in SP 🎉. You still have to work for the kill, but this is not Ace Combat.
So excited for the ai now
Thanks for listing your PC specs. I was going to ask what you were using when you mentioned the longer loading times.
Just started playing a month ago so I'll take your word for it:)
Spud, that was simply beautiful. Great content. I watch a lot of Reapers and Sidewinders content and this was right on the same shelf. Wonderful. Quick question... I didn't see the AI ever take a shot at you. Was it because during all of that flying he was never in range or had his nose on you enough to shoot? And have you been shot down by the AI? In a gunfight I mean.
Singleplayer got that much better with these new additions to AI and environment. Just yesterday, i was attacking a SA-10B site and on approach, noticed a MiG29S defending an AIM-120. Watched him go cold, drag it to the floor and bleed its energy, then that SoB, ripped around the circle and fed me an Archer. Very, very impressive.
Now to try the new NGAD :D
I was finding that even with these updates that even on veteran setting AI opponents are still able to perfectly moderate their rate speed in a way a human can’t, and I’m still getting my arse kicked. However then the reason for this dawned upon me, and I realised why I was constantly being beaten by the AI. The answer was simple, I’m just really bad at dogfighting. That was it, and as soon as I realised this inescapable fact, I was able to appreciate that ED have done a good job here and I just need to git gud👏
Anti gravity mig 15 😂!!! thanks, I thought I was terrible at dogfights
Nice video as ussual. I have only one advise. You are loosing your speed quckly by pulling stick too hard . F-16 is capable outturn each jet, but you have to keep speed about 350. If look into tacview you probaply see you turning inside the circle and enemy is flying arround. I did same mistake in the past too, try to get to his six too quickly. Speed and patience is the key in the two circle fight.🙂
Dd you try Mig-15 verus mg 15? to see what the diifferce between EFM and the new AI model is like?
Based on fa18 bfm instant action and missions, I’ve had AI fly into terrain after in a circle near the ground for a couple minutes (almost like they pull tons of Gs without letting go), and sometimes go back to straight and level.
I got into DCS years ago but fighting the AI left me frustrated. Regardless of what era of enemy aircraft or experience level I went against was leaving me aggravated. I gave up on A to A and just did A to G. Looking to invest more time and money into it again now that I’ve seen your video. Liked and subscribed. 👍🏻
It’s always getting better! The slow march of progress!
So excited
Kept clicking on the "Fly" button and pausing the video by accident. Damn muscle memory...
Hey Spud, great vid. do you use headtracking or VR?
I'm fairly certain it's trackIR, you can usually tell when some is in VR.
@@TheRobeRanger Oh right. Yeah I was going to ask if he had any videos about the mapping of head tracking. it is a pain to set up.
Today I went into a fox2 fight with my F14B against an F16C. F16 was set to "trained". He lasted about 40 seconds. I'd say there's still some work to do.
Well then, set him to Veteran. Trained Ai is meant for newer People learning the game, not showing how good Ai can be
@@F0X_two I AM new to the game lol
Was late to update to 2.8 last night I fought a veteran mig 29s...I will need to re evaluate my skill level now.
I just downloaded it. Will try it out tomorrow. All I ask for in regards the AI. Just make them realistic. They keep their energy and somehow have unlimited fuel even when in afterburner . For instance how do I run out of fuel against a Mig29 first?
They definately need to fix that unlimited fuel thing... can't be that the S-3B I'm refuelling from is being left by the crew because it has no more fuel left while fighters can fly in burners all day long just like Growling Sidewinder does... **giggles**
in my mind a right to right merge is easier physically to turn your head and maintain stick control over a left to left if you think about vr i always have a slight bit of uncomfortable feel in comparison to a right to right i am not a center stick mount im side stick that may also play a role in comfort of looking behind you both ways
I think everyone has their own preferential side to turn the head into. To me turning to the left to look behind me is easier.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD yeah makes since there’s preference my thought process was right hand controls jet looking right I’d easier than turning away putting more strain on arm for flight controls
Will the AI take advantage and Shoot at you like that last kill you did? So does the AI take a fast maybe I might hit him gamble shot? Big change in AI looks like a Good Change. Till I get killed by one. lol
when does the patch go live?
the su27 was actually just insane, i thought my game was bugged he was going vertical pulling 9gs and not loosing speed and it was really annoying
So was it actually normal? I have had a hard time fighting new su27 ace level ai in an f16. It seems like it loses energy far too less.
It was still nothing. AI MiG-15 had more energy than player MiG-29, this was crazy. Now everything is way more realistic.
Mine takes ages to render in once in my cockpit. I thought it was my crap pc playing up since the update
That’s exactly what I thought about the AI going heading into clouds … I think they have written code to look for them because they do it too perfectly …the AI has made this sim awesome
How do you setup adog fight like this on dcs?
What about landning with an AI wingman? That’s is usually interesting to watch…
You know whats wild it use to work perfectly back in 1.5. Wingmen would fly right next to you if you wanted them to in a nice tight formation and then once 2.0 landed it fucked everything up. You use to be able to do tandem landings with the AI and they'd land right next to you perfectly. It was so awesome.
@@jonredcorn862 I remember using this in the F15 with an AI wingman. It was actually scary how close they where on landings. They would keep the distance regardless of your own position on the landing. I still had this in 2.6. Honestly though. I haven't tried it since changing planes. So are you sure it's completely gone?? If i remember correctly. It worked with MIGs and SU's in the training missions
Hey I am new to this game and I play in VR with a HOTAS. Is there a way to configure more buttons on the HOTAS so I dont have to reach for the keyboard all the time as I am in VR and its really immersion breaking.
Add a modifier in you control settings, gives you double the nr of actions on your HOTAS.
Modifiers, but also - what stuff do you need the keyboard for?
I don't use any modifiers and don't need to use the keyboard. It's true that I have an abundance of switches on my diy consoles but I don't even use all of those - most stuff I click using PointCTRL or I did using a conveniently placed mouse.
It works now guys, thanks. And I have another question for you. Do you recommend to lower the joystick sensitivity to 25 for finer maneuvering or is it bullshit?
the AI changes are great but my performance is terrible now... in a multiplayer server I get like 30 fps. game ran amazing on 4k before
Will this AI upgrade apply to WW2 aircraft as well?
Not yet unfortunately!
F-86s did NOT want to fight MiG-15s in the vertical. They wanted to fight them in the horizontal.
that dogfight looked very cinematic
It’s a Mig-17M with super cruise!
Is it steam version? I know a fix
I'd say you'd had it easier if you managed your corner speed range more carefully.
Did you see a big FPS drop? It seems some had and I'm stuck at 20fps even on low setting where I had 40 on high before?
If it's steam veraion go in to steam settings and revalidate all the files
@BruSwain It seems to have sorted itself out its very very good now!.I was a little hasty to grumble. Don't know why initially it was so rubbish but great now anyway!
Did you delete metashaders and fxo folder?
Why were you trying to turn fight your Viper below 350 KIAS?
I’ve watched a MiG-21, at approximately 400kn, from sea level, zoom climb to 30,000ft.
How? Don’t know. Why? Yes. Did I die? Yes.
AI has gotten better...that is it. However, there are not limitations like G force, Airplane limits etc....this is not there. Only the AI has gotten better, they evade better, especially in BVR ranges.
Single Player is a lot tougher now.
To be fair, that is one of the few things that bird is still pretty darn good at even nowadays. The EE Lightning will be even more impressive at that I guess.
@@CakePrincessCelestia yes it is good in power-to-weight but it’s not even close to good enough to climb 30,000ft almost perfectly vertical.
@@rhysgoodman7628 Fair point, I wasn't expecting this to be about directly vertical.
Not impossible in a 21. If there's one thing that thing still is, it's fast
Yeah, those MiG-15's really required cheats to bring down sometimes. Although I think they're a bit too tanky for .50's still. I really had to try my best to hit the cockpit to conserve ammo. No other spot brings one down quite as effectively imo, but I'm far from a good pilot. It meant I'd run out of fuel before getting 3 kill shots off. It took a good 20-35% of my ammo to get a kill on anywhere, but the cockpit. At least now it should be more enjoyable as a somewhat fair fight instead of that Russian black magic that could do high speed loopty loops until you stalled or had to try something else before he super glues himself to your ass with a tractor beam.
I just hope we get AI that doesn't do perpetual stalls all the way into the ground, trying to turn or pull up to hard.
Unlike some other DCS CZcamsrs it is a pleasure to watch at 4k 60fps. Do you have DLSS enabled ?
DLSS unfortunately isn’t available in dcs
@@Spudknocker woah, i am just getting back into flight sims and i figured they added dlss or something, they really optimized it since a year or two ago
@@Spudknocker Which is a shame. And I've never gotten that FSR thing to work...
@@danius4043 I don't think the optimisation has changed much - the 2.8 patch notes don't mention much about it except added LOD's for the apache
I think what you're noticing is that more people have higher end graphics cards now...
@@kiesta0740 yeah but ive been away since... 2.5 i think lol. But yeah my better video card is also a thing lol
Question, how do you change your FOV.
Use zoom in slowly and zoom out slowly in controls
2.8!!!
Of course you are better since you are flying a Greek F16 which is by default better than other F16s :) They make real practise every single day!
I got in a 2 v 4 dogfight with an AI F-18 wingman and 4 MIG 21. I shot down 3 MIG 21 and the wingman shot down 1. Just as I was shooting down the last MIG with guns in a close fight, my wingman shot me down with with an AIM 120. I must admit this first encounter did not make me happy about the new AI.
One guestion- how you achive goals of campaigns you pay with AI that skills are better than top gun maverick or red baron.I wish you luck. Only chance is to wait when fuel of foe run out.
3:10 "Innercept" _~Spud_
7:36 I wish they'd change how screenshots are taken in VR to directly from the VR render instead of the ultra low res pancake mirr'. I use OBS to take screenshots since, but the fricken WMR software tends to crash with OBS in the background...
7:50 I kinda wonder why that's there at all, I mean we do have the zoom axis and keys already, why would you want to change it in that menu? The only thing it adds is the actual angle displayed which can also be read on the RCtrl+Pause (twice) info.
8:30 _F - I - N - A - L - L - Y - !_
The time has come that this will work against the AI: /watch?v=Nq4SZUgNOaM&t=266s
10:56 "Just hit the brakes an'll fly right by!"
11:41 No more /watch?v=GT4dnK0pIcM :)
26:16 Good old toilet bowl :D
Did steam get the update? Can't check my gpu died waiting on a new one
They get updated at the same time
It looks better but if it s not even possible to kill a Mig 15 when flying in a F16 this is kinda unrealistic.
True but it could just be my bad flying haha its hard to talk and fly haha
its the pilot not the plane
I mean this is almost like trying to turn fight an I-16 in a 190. You'll get your butt handed to you on a silver plate in a heartbeat if he knows what he's doing and you don't stay fast.
@@Spudknocker I think you just need a little more discipline in keeping your speed up. You're always turning hard enough to keep bleeding speed. It's *very* tempting because it gives you a short term gain, and it's even harder to resist the urge when the bandit is behind your 3/9 line, but it very quickly leaves you with much worse turn performance.
I don't have the update available on Steam
Switch it to Open Beta branch
@@CakePrincessCelestia thank you
I gave up on dcs a long long time ago. I paid for it and I still have it but never use it. I'll do the update and give it another try... who knows...
2.8 is out?
4:48: Crtl+s, Ctrl+p, fly
I wouldn't say it's quality of life. I think it was required.
@Spudknocker can u share u trackIR profile ?
wait for f15e..hahah
I hope they make AI dont see throught clouds
Its completelly broken.. just fought an AI F-5 with a F-15.. the F-15 stayed at 500knots the entire fight in full burner doing spirals and all kind of stupid maneovers.. i ran out of fuel before i could shot it after like 15m ..then it just keept climbing at full burner 600knots to 36000 feet and then flew for like 10m more minutes in full AB.. i would ran out of fuel in an F-5 like 4 times doing that
I'm not happy, cause everything they come out with is a patch something about it that I like stop working
Spud, you're no Growling Sidewinder, but you're still a decent dogfighter, definitely better than me (not hard). You did very well against those AIs.
The old broken physics would explain why when me and my mates were fighting AI F-5Es we were having such a hard time. We decided on the MiG-28 because 2 of the 3 of us were flying Tomcats. Should've been an easy fight. It wasn't. I was in an F-15C and I was pushing those engines as hard as they went but I was struggling to keep up with the Tigers. There were several colourful phrases questioning the parentage of the F-5E pilots that were said. One of my mates got shot down, he lost to an F-5E in the vertical and just couldn't shake the Tiger off his 6 and I couldn't get there before there were little pieces of Danny decorating the Caucasus mountains. My other mate was able to defeat his Tiger, but he said it was a slippery target that just had so much energy.
dude you should switch to the hornet, you seem to end up in the slow high alpha stuff all the time
in F-16 you should immelman the shit out of them and keep up your smash
You burn off WaaaAAAAAAAAaaaay too much energy . The Viper wants to be on the deck in a turn fight which is where you had him before you broke off for more energy. Keep it 300+ until you are ready to pull him in your hud and waste him.
Well, they call him (F-5) "ace" for a reason?
I'd expect an ace pilot in an F-5 to be good at managing his energy. Now, the goofy endless vertical maneuvers - yeah, glad to see that go.
so will I get my ass kicked less?
There is NO WAY an F5 should be able to perform like that. Almost 400 kts in a horizontal fight with no energy/speed loss??? It just can't be done.
I gotta say, now it will actually be fun to play those BFM and ACM Red Flag campaigns for the F-5 and F/A-18, what a difference!
EDIT: Since you're flying a Greek F-16 you should maybe have gone against a Turkish F-5
You’re too slow in those rate fights, no other plane could outperform the f-16 if you manage your speed
Agree with him being too slow. But IMHO Mig29 is better turner than F16. While flying Mig29 it is a breeze for me whereas with F16 I have to work for the kill. But of course when it comes to BVR F16 will eat Mig29 for breakfast.
It'll have broken absolutely everything, just wait and see. the DCS devs couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. I wince every time they do a major update
So far everything works fine... Have to remember they are an Indie dev that do this "for love of the game" not to make bazillions of dollars like an EA or activation so bumps are to be expected in this VERY niche and vertical piece of software
@@Spudknocker I've been a user of their buggy software since LOMAC, and a flight simmer since flight sims existed on home computers - the core DCS gameplay hardly ever changes, they just add more eye candy to the sim, which is now groaning under the weight of all the crap they've tacked onto it. If I could persuade my group to move to IL-2 then I'd wipe DCS from my hard drive and just swallow the huge cost of the modules and maps I've bought - silly me.
Eagle Dynamics aren't doing this for love, it's an early access pyramid scheme designed to keep them afloat for just a little while longer, and one day it will all collapse because their business model isn't sustainable.
@@colderwar This.
It's exactly the reason why I never invested a dime in DCS.
NEW AI is sadly to be improved again IN MOST AICRAFT.Mig 15 is UFO like before.
EVEN RAINBOW CANT CHANGE IT.
Noob question here - How can i lock on an enemy during dogfight?
Bruh...that's q loaded question qnd ubdidnt even mentioned what jet you're flying. Time to go to school
Read the manual for whatever aircraft you're trying to fly, do the training, and watch some videos. This isn't an arcade flight sim, you need to really put the effort in if you want to learn all the flight and combat systems. Its not as simple as pushing this button and locking on.
General answer for most modern US fighter: put it in dogfight mode, select either vertical scan or area scan, and maneuver the scan area onto the enemy. The switches for all these actions are on the HOTAS, so if you have a decent HOTAS throttle and stick, you should have them mapped.
F-16C and F/A-18C can additionally slave the radar boresight to the helmet-mounted sight in dogfight mode; this is also done with a HOTAS switch.
But for the precise control input flow, it will vary from aircraft to aircraft, and as the others mention, you just need to read the manuals, play the tutorial missions, and watch some youtube tutorials
Whats the point in fighting an F5 in a F16? They don't even belong to the same league.
That immelman will get you killed in a even fight.
just downloaded 2.8 and tried it MP. SRS is broken, you have to turn off all radios because the radio messages clutter the left half of the monitor... they don't get scrolled up anymore.
The worst patch for a long time, especially because of the 10-20% drop of FPS additionally to all the bugs that make it almost unusable for multiplayer. Guess I'm flying X-Plane fir the next couple of weeks until EA gets all that stuff sorted out ... really disappointing, since I didn't find anything that was better than in 2.7.
You blaming E.D. for SRs not working?
That's kinda Karen of you.
I'm sure SRS will update soon.
@@michaeltrivette1728 Agree. I'm having to wait for the 3Dmigoto mod update as well. Where's the problem in doing something else for a few days anyway?
Performance drops though aren't that great...
Srs said the server owners just needed to update their links to fix the issue ...later the same day of the release. So its just waiting for your favorite server to catch up😄
@@michaeltrivette1728 I didn't blame ED for the problem with SRS, I just wanted to mention it. The other issues are definitely ED's business. I think the new patch was released too early without proper testing in MP. But it seems that ED's focus is on SP, with the new AI and things like dynamic weather. Nothing I personally missed in the first place...
The drops in FPS are supposedly also to blame on the new weather. Maybe the guys with a Core i9 and a RTX 4090 will be happy to sacrifice some performance for eye-candy, the majority of players would almost certainly prefer a better performance...
@@d1fballplayer I already have figured out that SRS works, only the auto-connect function is broken. So no big deal.
it just AI
Either the AI aircraft flight model is seriously flawed or the heatblur F-14 flight model is serioisly flawed or the F-14 is just handles like a pig! I do realize you are in a F-16 for the video but when I engage the F-5 in a F-14, The F-14 flight performance is abysmal.
cringing at how hard you are yanking on the controls at 248 knots lmao, the AI isn't "stupidly good" you are just in a very low energy state
The lack of self awareness is strong with this one ^
LoL people complaining about AI ufo dogfights and can’t win against these easy AI. It just makes me laugh. If this AI is really as good as they say then ufo AI is the least of your problems. But at least you died fair for hundreds of times.
have anybody ever tell spudknocker he talk to much . play the damn game
Anybody ever tell you that you need to learn good english!
how can we download the 2.8 version?
You must have openbeta version and it is automatic update