Why the Sega Saturn Failed
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2018
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You can't get away from it. If you're a Sega fan, you will constantly hear about the many opinions regarding their failed systems. In this video, you'll hear mine, and I only ask you keep an open mind while watching it.
NOTES:
*I used the 32X footage of Fahrenheit and Night Trap because it looked better during the presentation.
*Fantasia II is presented more as a joke than anything, mainly because it's so bad. Disney is actually quite protective of the license.
*Many of the games here were published by Sega of America and developed by another company. While SoA did have internal development teams, many of the Genesis titles from them were outside development.
*Both NBA Action and NFL 97 were released over a year after the Saturn's NA launch. NBA Action in June of 96, and NFL 97 in November of 96.
* I am not a fan of many of the Sega of America published Genesis titles. Chakan, Greendog, Batman Returns, and Fantasia used as examples of some of my most disliked among those games.
*NFL Gameday is absolutely awesome on the PS1. Play it.
*ESWAT may be funny to some of you when I mentioned it as a Genesis classic, but it actually is one of my favorites for the system.
Music used in this video in order.
Shienryu - Stage 5
Cosmic Carnage
ESWAT Stage 1
Sonic - Greenhill
Midnight Resistance - Stage 1
Road Rash Palm Desert
Daytona King of Speed
Virtua Fighter 2 Dural
Afterburner
Outrun Splashwave
Dragon Force - Battle
Sonic CD Palmtree Panic
Panzer Dragoon Ending
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As always, thank you guys for all your support! - Hry
SEGA never having a true Sonic game for the Saturn was a colossal disaster.
I disagree. Even if there was an original Sonic game for the Saturn that wasn't a port of an already existing Sonic game, it wouldn't be enough to save the console.
LeaveTheMark: Sonic single handily help millions of Genesis’s sell in the United States.
Saturn never have had a AAA IP when on release. Nights didn’t cut it.
@@stabinghobo57 It's wasn't the same target of consumers ..... there was sonic 3D games on Dreamcast it wasn't a big success .
@@bigmanliam lol right? It was one of the Dreamcasts best sellers. Ppl just throw random shit out. Bc it wasnt a massive success like say Xbox's Halo, doesnt mean it wasnt a success!
@@LeaveTheMark_YT no one is saying having a Sonic game would have saved the Saturn. Not having a good sonic game period was a big mistake. How would Nintendo be doing if they skipped almost entirely on Mario for a console? A regular console, not something unordinary like the Wii
Sera’s biggest mistake was failing to see that the arcade market was dying fast in NA. People wanted games that were lengthy, not 20 minute arcade ports.
I went PlayStation over Saturn (UK) for two main reasons. The systems at the time were both £199.99 The Saturn came with no demo or game, and required purchase of an rf adapter. I could only just afford the hardware at the time so for the same price I could take home a PlayStation the same day and have it hook up to my tv and play something that night.
What pack-in game did you get? I don't remember what mine was but I got in 1998 or '99, so it might've been around the same time as yours.
@@sheilaburrowes9081 Demo One disc probably. Better than nothing.
@@sheilaburrowes9081 IIRC when the Playstation first came out it didn't include a pack-in game, just a demo disc. That probably changed by 98/99 though, especially with them competing against the nascent Dreamcast.
You must of been quite late to the party if the saturn was $199 if i remember sega didn't lower the price much until the sat mrk 2 came out , the original uk price for the sat in 1995 was 399.99 i remember paying it too just to play virtua fighter, i went with saturn over PlayStation as it came with an rgb scart lead and virtua fighter pack in game, even the though the console was mega expensive it was worth it i loved the saturn, all my mates had ps1s so i didn't miss out on PlayStation and they didnt miss out of some of the good games for saturn
@@Megalocade Yeah, I just read the comment, and I was sure the Saturn was originally over 300, and totally out of my price range. Having had the Megadrive, and loving Daytona, I was convinced I wanted a Saturn, and desperate for games (and arcade ports) to be good. But a part of me also loved the idea of the Playstation and Ridge Racer. In the end I waited and waited, and ended up with an N64. I loved the Dreamcast, though, even with the magazines convinced it would fail (as I remember it, anyway).
It's an interesting point in the video about Sega placing emphasis on arcade games for their strategy, because I remember being confused why people weren't more enthusiastic about the Saturn. I guess it's because I expected everyone to love the arcade games.
Panzer Dragoon was simply amazing to me as a child. Great game.
Most definitely.
There was a Saturn demo station with Panzer Dragoon Zwei playing on it at a local Toys R Us back in 1996/1997 that led to a situation where my mom ended up beating my ass because I WOULD NOT PULL MYSELF AWAY FROM IT.
Not making a Sonic 4 for the Saturn was totally idiotic. But they seemed to have learned their mistake as a lot of 16 bit IP's were in development for the Dreamcast. Even if most of them were cancelled.
NiGHTS basically murdered Sega as a brand, lmao
True
Yeah.
Someone explain why, in the middle of retro console fever, Sega decided on keychain Game Gears rather than, say, the Sega version of a GBA?
@@meyes5671 no they could’ve done both
The 32X killed SEGA more than anything else. It was a betrayal to their fans because the Saturn was right around the corner. The lack of good games just added salt on the wound.
I didnt even know the x32 existed till way after but I did consider buying the sega saturn
True . I was a huge Sega guy . I got hoodwinked with the 32x .
Nothing but a cash grab and as you said well it felt like a betrayal.
They gave up on the 32X way too soon. From what I understand the 32X was supposed to be a cheap upgrade for people who didn't want to spend the money for a Saturn. It was basically supposed to be a budget system. It could have saw some success imo if they wouldn't have abandoned it so early. It is like they wanted it to be a failure.
@@User_SR_2006 in hindsight it sure seems that way . I had an old generation 1 . I bought the 32x from toys r us , at launch only to get it home and think it was defective because it didnt include the special cord to link the gen and 32x together .
Later when the dust settles you feel like they crapped on their own fans . No sonic game ? ( I mean isn't that the easy 5 minute convo on day one of brain storming about the launch?)
Then ok, the Saturn became Sega's baby I get that but dont stop making games for the 32x so quickly.
I didnt have lot of money , all my gaming funds were allowance, x mas / birthday money and chores all saved up . The saturn , 3do , or jaguar were never going to be an option for me any time soon.
I spent my cash on trusty sega and they broke my heart .
There are a shit ton of great Saturn games. Panzer Dragoon Saga is arguably the greatest game of that generation, but SOA only printed 20,000 copies and SOE didn't even want to release it until one lone employee kept pushing for localization.
I remember the avalanche starting when people bought the 32x and Saturn being released 4 to 6 month later. After this and seeing Sega holding on with more expensive add ons I made the switch to pc in 95 and never looked back. I still miss Sega and I did get a hold of a dreamcast later, but knew it was over.. everyone was counting on sony. I still emulate the classics. Great memories
My grandma bought me my Saturn for my birthday in October... That same year, the Saturn sold, for Christmas, the console with 3 games - Daytona,VF 2, And VC 1... I got my console with VF 2, only... My initial move to the Saturn in turn caused three of my friends in my neighborhood get Saturn's as well since the N64 was sold out across the board... So four of us, in one neighborhood, had Saturn's.... Between us we had all the great titled... Dark Savior comes to mind...resident evil 1... Virtual On... And Duke 3d... I also had the netlink... A friend of mine once had Sega channel... So... Four kids bet it all on Saturn... We made the best if it. Those were the days...
Those ellipses make this comment very difficult to read c’mon bro.
Man, i always wanted a saturn for duke and netlink! Still wana pick a saturn up one day for sure.
Duke 3D was one of only 5 games to use sega netlink, amazing.
Me and the boys... 😁
I see what you are saying Saturn sucked
I never realized how most Genesis games never made it to long running sequel status. They never had a Mario Kart or Donkey Kong Country. It’s sonic and that’s it
I have to grugingly admit, Nintendo has done a better job of cultivating and managing its software IP. Their strong first party titles have helped sell all but Nintendo's very poorest hardware.
I was hoping for more Vectorman. Remember that? :3
@@SataniaMcDowel there was gonna be a new vectorman in 2004 but it got cancelled, you can watch the trailer on CZcams
Echo
Shinobi, streets of rage, panzer dragoon, phantasy star, virtual fighter and more. Sega has plenty of franchises that made it past the first or second game. For some reason Sega just refuses to cash in on its properties.
Sonic being absent was a huge reason.
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Sonic 3D blast
What the hell are you talking about??
Not to mention Nights and Christmas Nights
Obviously he was talking about a real Sonic game, numbnuts.
Sarah Connor you call that person above numbnuts yet you
can't say what is or would be your idea of a real Sonic game?
@@jasonlee7816 A 2D platformer like Sonic Mania. Now leave the one month comment alone.
What's crazy, is that despite all the mistakes with the games, Sony had also asked Sega for a partnership, after Nintendo rejected their partnership, and Sega Japan refused.
My Sega Saturn blew up in 1998, went bang then fire and smoke.
It broke my heart for about a month after that. Athlete kings was one of my favourite all time games.
I bought the Master System, Genesis and Sega CD but passed on the Saturn for two reasons: 1)the high price tag, and 2)the lack of quality games in the west. I was very loyal to Sega, but I felt that they really dropped the ball in that era. The Dreamcast was a damn good system and an improvement in all respects, and it had a great batch of launch titles, but it was too late. The damage was done.
If the Dreamcast would’ve come out in like 96 or 97 it would’ve probably been a bigger seller, it just came out way too close to the PS2 which was by far a way more advance console
@@hankhill5622 the saturn came out in 95 if the dreamcast came out a year later it would've failed too for the same reason the 32x and the sega cd did
Couldn't agree more, if the Saturn did as good as the Genesis, then the Dreamcast would've been Sega's PlayStation 2.
@@doom5895 lmao no ppl would b amazed and get it or wait for it
Sega dropped the ball with the SegaCD
As a person that bought a 32X back in 1994 I can say that the 32X move killed SEGA. I had 150 bucks for the 32X but not more money for ANOTHER console, much less 400 bucks
ricardo rodriguez the Japanese sega did everything wrong, was to invest more in the sega cd and 32x, would be until 1997 and could launch the dreamcast quiet, more modern than it was. saturn was a rock in the shoe.
It's sad that the two main factions of SEGA couldn't agree on the same things which resulted in the 32X and the SEGA CD, which should have just been the SATURN. Both 32X and SEGA CD were poorly executed addons to extend the life of GENESIS and they failed to do that because of price and lack of great games. I passed on 32X and never have or ever will get one. SEGA CD I got much later when it was much cheaper along with a decent collection of games. SATURN was and still is an incredible system that should have been more successful if it wasn't tarnished by the bad reputation of the GENESIS addons and if SEGA had been more supportive of 3rd parties to help them make better games given that the hardware was a bitch to program for.
Yeah that happened a lot. The 32X killed all the hype the Mega Drive created for the next Sega system.
After that many Sega fans had to wait to save money again for the next system(still many were at young ages at the time), and Sega launched the Saturn unexpetly early(before anyone managed to save enough) and at a bigger price.
Then after a little saving you suddenly found yourself a little late with enough money to buy a PS1 that already seemed great but not enough to buy a Saturn and if you waited longer to buy the Saturn by then it seemed like the PS1 was the new king already and Saturn a failure.
By then no matter how much you liked SEGA it would be a stupid move to give more to buy a failure instead of less to buy a success.
Nah the 32x didn't kill SEGA, SEGA killed themselves with far too many mistakes. As much as I loved my Dreamcast SEGA didn't have the money to release it and give it proper support. while it got online gameplay in consoles a mainstay sooner I think SEGA shouldn't have released it until they could afford to truly give it the support it needed. I personally think SEGA should have just waited and supported nintendo with some of their IPs and recovered their value as a company.
@@p.henrique4142 In Japan people still loved 2D and arcades. In the west 2D was considered obsolete and everybody wanted 3D (even if it was awful). I was 15 and I can remember those years pretty well. The magazines (we still had games magazines back then!) made statements like "if this game was a 3D game it would have been better!" and so on...then, it was also hard to get imports. It's only with the 2D renessaince of indie games and Internet and the retro game craze that we started to know what we missed.
SONY came out of nowhere and ate Sega’s lunch.
Due to Nintendo being a stupid-ass company. Reportedly, Square begged them to use a CD system. Had Nintendo listened, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and a bunch of Sony's selling points might have been on the 64 instead.
299
@@rastas_4221 it was largely out of spite initially though. Nintendo didn't want to work with Sony to make a CD based system, so Sony developed one their self
That was because Sony had good marketing so consumers knew about it and Sony pleased devs and got good games. The Saturn flopped because it had hardly any marketing, most of the good games are Japan exclusive, the existence and failure of the 32x,the rushed launch of the Saturn when marketing and launch games aren't ready, Difficult hardware to program for because Sega anticipated gaming to still heavily focus on 2d with 3d being a novelty or to enhance 2d and panicking when Sega saw that gaming was going 3d late in development, price Saturn was 399, ps1 was 299 and the Playstaion had more games and a library of games seen as revolutionary instead of just fine like the Saturn.
@@peterlane1391 Except it came in second place and the library of games are considered legendary alogside the ps1 legendary library of games that aren't just Final Fantasy and Metal Gear vs a system that at the time noone knew existed and those that did thought the games sucked or were just fine. Only to find out later that the best games for the system came out in Japan and even then aren't revolutionary like the ps1 and n64 libraries.
I wanted a Saturn based on looks alone. PlayStation looked cool and was ultimately a better choice in console but the Saturn coming off the Genesis could've been game over.
I think there's one point missing in the picture: Sega not only failed to see how the market changed regarding genres, they also failed to see how the cultural trends were evolving. During the 16-bit era, Sega was the edgy cool kid. During the 32-bit era they were old school compared to what the PS1 had to release. Daytona and Sega Rally nearly had a "retro" feel to them when Ridge Racer and Wipeout were super-edgy with their electro music and whatnot. Suddenly, Sega became unfashionable for teens and young adults and unpalatable to mature audiences. The PS1 instantly became the console for cool kids, cool kids-wannabe, and no-longer-a-kids, because Sony and its third parties had a better grasp of what was cool at this moment, especially in the West.
Also, I believe doing 3D with quads just wasn't practical, it was a pain and a waste and not just a good way to try and make 3D, not to mention the other limitations of Sega's 3D architecture
The problem with Sega is they tended to offer the best of today's gaming, when Sony strove to offer the games of tomorrow.
I especially believe that Sega had nothing to do with the mainstream evolution of the market or want to be cool with one shot productions. It was not their way of seeing or making video games, and I personally think they were right. There was an audience for that, yet it would have been necessary in the west that marketing be directed with its clear message as it was in Japan.
This only holds somewhat true for Sega's console output, not their arcade output. Sega's arcade output was light-years ahead of what the consoles had in the '90s. In fact, Sony themselves said their vision of the future was directly inspired by Sega's arcade games, especially Virtua Fighter. The problem was that, while Sega's arcade division was ahead of the curve, their console division was still stuck in the past.
you can blame Bernard Stolar for that.
I agree with this to an extent. By 1996 kids wanted to move on from being kids with kid experiences to being adults with adult experiences. Nintendo knew they’d never be adult and so they stuck with their solid consistent “family themed” catalog. Sony on the other hand push for the “mature” look. Sega was sort of “in between” and couldn’t figure out what it wanted to be.
Just a note: When showing gameplay footage, it wouldn't hurt to have a little box in a corner with the name of the game. Awsome video! Loved it bro.
Saturn Daytona 20-30 fps instead of 60 fps Arcade
Damn, I didn't even think about it. I'll work on that.
All good bro you put sooo much work in vids they are great
@@SegaLordX Yeah, what is the name of that jet fighter game? It looked amazing!
@@beefchampion2792 Afterburner
Sega May have taken a step back at sports games on the Saturn, but remember Sega was the company that started the 2K franchise on the Dreamcast. NBA and NFL 2K were ahead of its time when they came out.
They did so out of necessity, since EA didnt support Sega after how they handled the Saturn
But they had EA support on the Saturn.
Don’t forget about Sega’s World Series Baseball franchise. That baseball game is the reason I bought the Sega Genesis and made me fall in love with Sega. I continued to support Sega all the way to Dreamcast.
@@Sheepy007It was almost certainly because SEGA dropped the 3dfx after EA had invested millions into it.
I unapologetically still play my Saturn
I did buy one a month ago... My first sega console 2021 . Like it a lot
I wanted one just to play virtua cop
:( I miss mine so much- It was my first ever system, and I loved that thing to death, until my b!tch of an (ex)s-i-l stole it. T-T
Are you kidding me!?!?!?
Theres 3 good games on there go ahead
We got a genesis Christmas 93 for 1 reason and 1 reason alone....to play mortal kombat at home and boy we were not disappointed😂😂😂finding Sonic 2 in the box weeks later as a pack in game was just a bonus for me &my brother
ZionHillCalling lucky you lol
Sounds like a great Christmas.
@ZionHillCalling Keeping your PC up to date in the 90s was a hard thing to do. You'd have to upgrade atleast once a month!
We bought it cause my little brother wanted sonic in 1993 also
I'd already moved onto NeoGeo in 1993... lmao!
I'm from South Africa, when I was very young my much older brother had the Sega Genesis with Sega cd included, in South Africa I believe it was called the Sega Megadrive or Megadrive 2. He also had the master system, but I never played that one. My favorite game was Bare Knucle, which is also referred to as Streets of Rage. A couple of years later I got my own console, the ps1 with Tekken 3 and Crash bandicoot 2. Never looked back. After that Sega was dead in South Africa, I only heard about the dreamcast from a single friend, never saw their games in any of the stores, didn't even know the saturn existed until I went to a pawn shop.
This is a great analysis. I don’t think Sega learned their lesson with arcade-style games by the time of Dreamcast.
More complex, story-driven games like Shenmue were rare exceptions. There were still a ton of shorter games with short timers and fast-paced gameplay that focused on scoring points and lacked a deeper story.
The industry was already moving partly toward narrative-driven games with Hollywood-esque production values and large explorable environments, and Sega was still largely focusing on more one-dimensional games with an emphasis on simplification.
Games where you just had to quickly shoot everything and had sixty seconds to reach a checkpoint weren't going to cut it with more games like Elder Scrolls, Metal Gear Solid, GTA, and Halo taking over.
True. Even games I love like Power Stone suffered from this. Literally all you can do in that game is Arcade mode by yourself and VS mode against another player. You can't even play VS Mode against the CPU, meaning you need a friend to play with to ever be able to choose the stage where you want to fight lol (in Arcade mode you never pick the stage).
Underrated comment.
Exactly. Gamers were looking for more immersive experiences. Those who weren't, like me, basically checked out.
Japans library was excellent, and it’s such a shame we didn’t get most of them. Great video.
Agreed, lack of Japanese ports was a blunder. Lack of RPGs, Sports games at launch, and a Sonic game was a big mistake.
@@EricTheActor805 Yeah, SEGA was a huge company, but the Saturn seemed like another expensive 3DO. They lost over $100/console throughout the Saturn's life, but if you bought in, some of the great Sega franchises (Streets of Rage, Phantasy Star, etc) were either not there or only offered one game and way too late to make a difference.
The machine that needed an addon wasn't the Sega CD. It was the Saturn, to keep it going against N64 and the mid-life PS1 titles.
@@MaxAbramson3
I disagree that it was about hardware, I think an add on would have hurt more than helped, especially after the 32X and SegaCD add on blunders.
Infact I'd argue that the Saturn may have been better served with weaker hardware specs.
"Although the Saturn's design was largely finished before the end of 1993, reports in early 1994 of the technical capabilities of Sony's upcoming PlayStation console prompted Sega to include another video display processor (VDP) to improve 2D performance and 3D texture mapping."
Had Sega stayed with their original specs, it would have helped costs down and made the system easier to program games for. It may have also pushed forward the launch dates. Especially if the never made the 32X (lack of chips was a problem)
The horrible American launch, high initial launch price, lack of 3rd party support and general lack of games was the downfall of the Saturn.
Sega should have never made the 32X or the SegaCD and instead focused of prompting the Sega Channel and Sega Nomad as a way to keep the Genesis alive in North America.
@@EricTheActor805 No one seems to mention the wonky roadmap with Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto, and rumors that Saturn might get backward compatibility, etc. The 32X and CD addons were appropriate for adding two years of life, but the early Saturn launch is what killed the 32X and SEGA's credibility. Only 800,000 bought the 32X and felt screwed over, yet millions avoided SEGA after the nutty, changing road map.
@@MaxAbramson3
The Saturn didn't kill the 32X, the 32X killed the Saturn. The 32X and SegaCD were massive mistakes, they never should have been made, they ruined Sega. The Nomad and SegaChannel were much better options for extending the life of the Genesis.
"Because the Genesis' Motorola 68000 CPU was too slow to handle the Sega CD's new graphical capabilities, an additional 68000 CPU was incorporated. This second CPU has a clock speed of 12.5 MHz, faster than the 7.67 MHz CPU in the Genesis. Responding to rumors that NEC planned a memory upgrade to bring the TurboGrafx-CD RAM from 0.5 Mbit to between 2 and 4 Mbit, Sega increased the Sega CD's available RAM from 1 Mbit to 6 Mbit. This proved to be a technical challenge, since the Sega CD's RAM access speed was initially too slow to run programs effectively, and the developers had to focus on increasing the speed. The estimated cost of the device rose to US$370, but market research convinced Sega executives that consumers would be willing to pay more for a state-of-the-art machine. Sega partnered with JVC, which had been working with Warner New Media to develop a CD player under the CD+G standard."
If Sega was smarter, they would have never released the SegaCD and instead the R&D from the SegaCD should have been the birth of the Saturn. When they realized the Genesis CPU was too slow and the SegaCD would cost $370 per unit, they should have pivoted into creating their next generation system
Sega's biggest problem was they were reactionary instead of independently innovative. The SegaCD was a reaction to the TurboGrafx-CD. The Sega Virtua Processor or SVP chip was a reaction to Super NES enhancement chips, particularly the Super FX chip. The 32X was a reaction to the Jaguar. The VDP2 Chip in the Saturn was a reaction to the Playstation.
Had Sega just worried about Sega, they would have been much more successful. Imagine if the SegaCD and 32X were never made an instead their marketing dollars went towards the Sega Channel and Nomad. The mistake Sega made with the Nomad was the lack on a 2nd controller port. The Nomad should have been marketed as a home console that doubles as a handheld portable. If it had a 2nd controller port, it could have been this. Plug it into your TV at home and quickly unplug it and play on the road. The Nomad did come along too late to be the life extending product for the Genesis, but it could have come along sooner. The Nomad was released in October 1995 in North America but it was based on the Japanese MegaJet, which was released Japan Airline on July 1, 1993 and had a retail release on March 10, 1994. Had the Nomad had a 1993 or 1994 release, along with the December 1994 release of the Sega Channel, Sega would have had the Genesis life extension products that they were looking for.
Another mistake was releasing the Dreamcast in Japan first. Japan was Saturn's best market. Had they released the Dreamcast in North America and Europe in 1998 and then in Japan in 1999, it would have given the Saturn another year in Japan and the Dreamcast a jump start on the PS2 and XBox in NA and EU.
The biggest downfall was the lack of games. Lack of a Sonic game. Lack of Sports games at launch. Lack of Japanese RPG ports to NA and EU. Lack of Arcade and PC ports. Lack of 3rd party support.
It was such a competitive generation, with the PS1, N64, Jaguar and 3DO. You had to get everything right and Sega got everything wrong.
I added some notes to this episode in the description. Please take a look if you want to know a bit more about the episode. :)
Also, there are some that are coming away from this video with the impression that I'm saying the Saturn had no good games. The Saturn is absolutely loaded with fantastic, unforgettable games. This video wasn't an attack on the Sega Saturn for having no good games. It was an opinion that Sega failed to address the market properly. Popular Genesis IP's never were continued on Saturn. It's stranglehold on sports games was lost immediately. It's arcade games lacked additional modes to drum up interest. 2D games that were best on Saturn were never released in the West. Sega had 30+ million Mega Drive and Genesis fans waiting to buy a Saturn in 1994. Instead of doubling down on what made those fans buy their 16-bit machine to begin with, they went in a completely different direction. Sure, games like Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force, Nights, Burning Rangers, Guardian Heroes, etc, were awesome games, but they were new IP's that Genesis fans knew absolutely nothing about. And with all the bad press surrounding the ports of early arcade and PS1 games on the system, those fans went straight to the competition.
In other words, the Sega that released the Saturn, was not the Sega that released the Genesis/Mega Drive for a lot of gamers. It was an easy move to change allegiance to Sony.
Great video
Could you 2 agree Arcade was on its last leg? Or heading towards that way soon...
The arcade scene was dead man. Only a handful of companies saw any success in the west at that time. Sega and Namco thanks to their polygon renaissance, Midway's Mortal Kombat and sports games, and Capcom thanks to their fighters. There was next to nothing left for most companies after that. There had been orders of magnitude more companies making arcade games in the 80's.
Tekken also actually supports my opinion. Namco had the where with all to give Tekken hidden characters, storylines, endings, and additional modes that Sega's arcade ports never received.
All good bro. I saw the repost. :)
Sega Lord X you are awesome thank you for your videos =)
I remember going to Toys 'R Us to buy a second Saturn (after my Dad destroyed our first). The guy at the counter was all like, "Do you REEAAALLY wanna buy this? It's a dead console. I still convinced my Mom to buy it knowing of its very own impending doom.
Why did he destroy the first one ? A drunken rage ?
Nintendo 64 and PS steamrolled the Saturn around here. I never knew anyone having the Saturn, I only got to know it trough gaming magazines and only ONCE did I spot a console IRL in a VHS/videogame store. For me, back then, this console was barely a myth. Nothing more than a curiosity that would stick with me for the next 25 years...This week I finally got my first Sega Saturn console! And I am stoked to explore the gaming library for the years to come!
I had a Saturn and a SNK Neo Geo.
A Phantasy Star on the Saturn would've been butter on my toast, man!
You have been one of the only people to take an honest and educated look at Sega as a company. Thanks for your dedication and hard work.
He fanboyed hard and then gave a good look really you can sum it up with a company doing everything wrong. Damn shame since the games are good better to be loved late then never.
I remember the mustique surrounding the Sega Saturn when it was first released. I was a young kid just mesmorized by the demo machine at a local Toys R Us. I never had owned the console, but that memory will die with me.
Yeah, new console releases back then were much more exotic, especially if you lived outside a major center. I never came across a Saturn in the wild but my local store did have a demo booths for the 3DO and Jaguar. Compared to my SNES, those units were crazy. I wanted to live in the store.
Thank you for making this documentary, you put a lot of hard work into this. I’m a diehard Sonic fan and fell in love with the franchise after playing it on my neighbor’s Sega Genesis. But the first console I had was a PS1 which was gifted to me for Christmas. I was born in 1992 but I wish that I was born a few years earlier so that I could have experienced Sonic and Sega during their glory days.😢
I had this thing. IT came with a saturn sticker that was stuck to my wall for a solid decade.
The Saturn may have failed in the NA video game market,but it triumphed in our hearts(and in Japan).
Japan got all the best games. American did not.
It was a shitty system which is why it failed. They did not make a proper console after genesis. Yes even dreamcast was crap which is why it also failed.
Kainthemain Your trolling sucks.What are you even doing here?
Saturn titles that still hold up:
Xmen vs street fighter(vs series games)
SF alpha games
Astal
Alber Odysse
Cyberbots
House of the Dead
Panzer Dragoon
Mega Man X3 and 4
MM8
Nights
SNK games
Awesome schmups
Tons of awesome arcade perfect fighters/shooters etc.
Dreamcast:
Again awesome arcade ports from SNK Sega and Capcom
Shenmue
Jet set Radio
Grandia 2
Skies of Arcadia
Egg Gimick Gear
Power Stone
Soul Calibur
Marvel vs Capcom 1 2
Etc.
Try again troll.
portalsofmadnes all these games can pretty much be found on other platforms, also the fact it failed is no mystery. D8kt get me wrong I have a dreamcast and i love collecting for it. Genesis was one of ly favourite consoles back in tjw day and in my opinion one of tjw best looking ones but facts are facts. Sega did not make proper consoles after genesis.
Had some cool games yeah but the consoles themselves were lacking compared to tyw competition. Dreamcast controller only had one analog and also wired inder the controller, also tje dreamcast was loud as hell qnd the wmd or whatever its called was cool but ik the end not very practical.
So Sega had to make some wome great consoles but they unfortunately were not able to do so after genesis, which is sad since Sega has a lot of history like Nintendo
Kainthemain "sega did not make a proper console after the genesis"...ok bud. Plus all those things you mentioned are pretty subjective like saying the dreamcast controller was bad,I always liked the controller and hell I even placed 7th place in a Marvel vs Capcom 2 tournament back in the day,using that controller which is pretty decent considering there were like 20 participants. To this day I still play games on my saturn like Panzer dragoon,Astal and Xmen vs SF (games that to this day are still exclusive to the Saturn). Same with Dreamcast,I still play BangaiO Skies of Arcadia,Shenmue,Grandia 2,Seaman,Power Stone 1 and 2,Jojos Bizarre Adventure,Egg Gimmick Gear.(which again,are still exclusive to the Dreamcast). Just because these consoles didn't live up to your personal specific expectations,or didn't reach the same sales of Sony,don't necessarily make them "bad" consoles. I own and have collected games for different consoles not just Sega,but to claim the Saturn and Dreamcast were trash for dubious reasons..sorry I just don't see it that way,Saturn and Dreamcast are legendary for a reason.
On a more basic level, what happened to Sega is what happens to many companies that get too big too fast, they can't handle it, lose their innovative spark and start crashing.
Hmm... I guess you kind of said this in a way with your last line about Sega being David to Nintendo's Goliath in the 16-bit era.
Sharif Sourour no I don't think so. I mean I think you're right in a general sense. But I don't think that's what happened. In my opinion thanks to say that we have online and all this other stuff just because of Sega. Saturn started doing online or at least try to do online as well as Dreamcast. Sony and all these other systems never even had the initiative thing to do all that crap.. also I know that's off-topic what I'm saying. But I don't think that's what happened. Sega was just doing too many things and wasting money on too many ideas. They just didn't keep it simple. Your least halfway correct on this situation
When I say "handle it" here I don't mean resources, but exactly the opposite, I'm talking about the pressure of topping your success being even more challenging than obtaining success in the first place, it was a very general comment, and yes I am aware of all those other details, but just like the other video, focusing on an aspect that is not usually covered but still has grounds...
Sharif Sourour it's scary because I've reached the same conclusion where I work at
LOL yeah there's a lot more time, no rush.
Sega's failure? Their biggest crime was it's ignorance and ego for not listening to their own gamers.
In Brazil you could buy a house with Saturn's price
To try to sum up this video in one sentence:
The Saturn had great games... but it didn't have the _right_ games.
what is the right games ? mainstream games with beautiful graphics and zero interest like Playstation has ?
Also inferior 3D hardware.
@@Clay3613 completely wrong ...
@@ciredecgellar8232 he's correct
@@popespalace823 take five minutes to take a look at the saturn's library in this case ...... and you will see he's wrong
The best things Sega could have done in this period is:
1. NOT release the 32X (pissed off developers and consumers and confused everyone)
2. Included backwards compatibility with the Genesis (a HUGE mistake not doing this).
3. A Sonic game as a launch game (re-release Sonic CD with loads of extras would have been ok or/and Knuckles Chaotix if 32X wasn't made)
4. Focus on being a great 2D arcade system instead of trying to copy Sony last minute and making a complete hash out of it, making the system hard to develop for with 3D graphics and frame rates which were worse.
5. Not rushed the release date!
6. Had the beautiful white model as the main one; It looked too much like the Genesis otherwise.
Agree with most of your points:
1. Yes, the 32X should have never seen the light of day.
2. I thought of this also, only made sense to considering how well Genesis did in the West.
3. Did not necessarily need to be a launch title, all they needed was one new Sonic game somewhere along the way.
4. The N64 was hard to develop for but Nintendo and Rareware made the most of it. Sega should have finished Sonic Adventure and Shenmue on Saturn and not kill off the console so early.
5. I don't think the early release date would've hurt too much in the long run had Sega not spent all of 1994 marketing the 32X for millions of dollars. Sales went up every year until they decided to pull the plug in order to focus on Dreamcast.
6. I prefer the blue and grey model. I have the white one and although I like it better than black I think it looks too much like a square wedding cake. And while I'm at it they should have launched with the original controller and gone with jewel cases for the games instead of those awful long boxes.
Focusing exclusively on 2D would have killed the system. When the PS1 had games like FFVII,MGS and Gran Turismo and the N64 had Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time the Saturn would have been seen as being outdated.
@@AxeCrazyAutobot as I recall it was an almost dedicated 2d system from conception with plans to port their 3d arcade games here and there. They weren't seeing the big transition which is weird from an arcade company. At 2d games it can run circles around the ps and with good programming match, possibly even surpass in 3d as well. I admit I never had one. I went from genesis to dreamcast, as I became a pc gamer instead. Then I played crazy taxi...that alone sold me on the dc!
@@AxeCrazyAutobot I could have said "(Sega) Should have done proper Market research on 3D graphics when developing the Saturn and try and understand what the PlayStation was planning, so there wouldn't have been 2 separate chips in the system making it hard to develop for and worse looking than the competition"
I completely agree that would have been smarter but they would have needed at least a year of planning for this. Also, I think the Saturn would have found its niche if it concentrated on delivering Arcade standard '2.5D' games as it would have cost them and consumers lot less, as well as being something different than a watered down Playstation. There was a real appetite for Arcade style games at home.
That's right, they lacked focus, and spread themselves to thinly over other projects that were not relevant to the Saturn's success.
Sega flooding the market with seven different systems in a matter of 3 years and not gaining the concept of 3D games was it's downfall. Plus communication with Sega of the US and of Japan was horrendous they might as well have been rivals.
That and the fact that Sony was starting to use CD Discs for their games instead of cartridges
Just imagine Nintendo not continuing their 16-bit IPs on the N64. Sega did make quite a few weird decisions.
Technically they did,because they spend to much Time on em and 64 lost too much momentum
I'm a owner of a PS1 but I recognize that the Sega Saturn had a lot of potential. Damn, even the cancellation of Sonic X-treme makes me sad.
No, thanks. I live the 'Nostalgia Factor'.
I don't care the modern games.
I was glad Sonic X-treme got cancelled. The game looked like ass. The real tragedy was that Sonic Adventure was started on Saturn but was cancelled. Same with Shenmue. Sega should have kept the console going for at least another couple years.
I didn't even know that Sonic Adventure is was going to come out on Saturn. But the worst part in North America, a couple of years after the launch of the Saturn, Sega of America didn't give much opportunity to the console and Bernie Stolar is an asshole.
The Saturn had way more potential than the PS1 and most of it was achieved. Developers didn't tap into the 3D as much as they should have. Things like Tomb Raider and Virtua Fighter 2 were very promising.
And yet, here in North America, The Dreamcast was known as "The Sports Console." With the Dreamcast Sega regained its mantle of "the place to go for the best sports game experience." Bu, I guess, too little too late. The Dreamcast was the greatest of the Sega platforms, just released a few years too late. By then, the damage had been done. Even amazing properties born on the Saturn like Nights Into Dreams were tarnished....hell, even Sonic was. Such potential, such fantastic music (hell, I still look for the Nights Into Dreams soundtrack to this day, and remember being able to just play that off the game disc)...and well...
DC had potential but the PS2 was too much, It was by then more powerful AND a dvd player. This was HUGE. Sega didn't have the money Microsoft did to fight Sony like this.
@@mattm7798 aye, the DVD player may or may not have mattered in North America and Europe depending on who you ask, but strangely in Japan VHS was still going strong at that time. The PS2 was absolutely the reason for millions of Japanese customers to upgrade to DVD for the first time, and it set a precedent that still exists to this day for video game consoles to be multimedia machines. That reason alone didn't give PS2 the win, but it's one hell of an edge to start with.
+Herb Derbler what reasons gave PS2 the win?
@@jasonlee7816 Probably it's huge game library and the brand recognition (good reputation) from the previous Playstation console.
Honestly when I think of dreamcast, I think of interesting, unique, and weird games,. I Love it
Playstation was on another level Saturn couldn't compete
I had Nights Into Dreams (brilliant game), Virtua Cop 2, Virtua Fighter 2, Cyberia. The good old days.
Thank you for putting an unique twist on a subject that has been done tons of times. I also respect the fact you debunk the lie that Sega added in the 3D graphic chip at the last minute in another video of yours. Too many gaming channels are just unoriginal and lazy with their research. Much props to you!
how could he go an entire video without mentioning S E G A T A S A N S H I R O
Most of us in the West in the mid 90's had no clue he even existed. His popularity in NA and Europe didn't become widespread until the spread of services like CZcams and retrogaming personalities began pimping him. Unless you had access to Japanese magazines, Segata was an unknown quantity.
The character was not a failure by any means, lol!
@@SegaLordX you speak strangely
@@SegaLordX I think you got it wrong. NOT introducing segata Sanshiro to the west, that was the mistake.
You should do another video "Why Sega Dreamcast Failed". Would be fun to hear your opinions
The Saturn was great if you were a big Capcom or Neo Geo fighting game fan, and bought one of those cartridges that let you play Japanese games. It was about all I used mine for, and a handful of domestic games.
Great video. It really sucks that it ended up being like this because the Saturn is really such a good system. So many great games on it especially in Japan.
like the PCE, better Japanese library
$299, drops the mic.
Nutz4Gunz45 You're goddamn right, right there. That's literally what killed the Saturn. Well, actually it was consumer naivety. If you take into account that the Saturn had onboard memory and a pack in game, that's your extra $100. PlayStation had neither.
Sega REALLY should’ve got onboard with Sony when they pitched the PlayStation to them! I know Sega of America were onboard but Sega of Japan worked. If I were Sega of Japan, I would’ve:
1. Taken into account that Sony could mop the floor with the competition
2. Requested that the PlayStation be verified as capable of running Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2 and Panzer Dragoon (they were in development around this time, right?)
3. Request that Mega Drive & Mega CD backwards compatibility be added, and that the Mega Drive cartridge slot also be used for RAM expansion (cough X-Men vs Street Fighter cough)
Stupid disputes between Sega of America and Japan! Can’t believe I didn’t know about the Saturn’s “It’s Out There” fiasco OR 1997’s “The Saturn is not our future” statement until 2015! Sony pitching the PlayStation to Sega I didn’t know about til 2017 (before The Gaming Historian said so!)
Also, regarding X-Men vs Street Fighter being 1 on 1 on PlayStation due to limited RAM, Capcom should’ve (either):
- release a RAM expansion pack that could go into the parallel port on the PlayStation console. The extra RAM could also be built into the 9000/PSone model consoles
and/or
- release the game on Nintendo 64, which has more RAM than the PlayStation
What I understand Sega USA was forced to release the Saturn months earlier then expected and that they did not have it at all stores. And that Sony lowered the price was funny. Sega USA was not ready with games that made them come in second hand when Sony released the PlayStation. It was Sega Japan that did not believe Sony could the game business. The same was with Nintendo and Atari, Atari could have been the biggest of them all but...
Adultmoshifan87
First off, nobody knew if Sony could compete with Sega or Nintendo, and if Sega had there shit together at the time then this story could be very different.
Secondly, Saturns memory cart slot was actually made with RAM & ROM expansions in mind, you've either got no chance of getting a RAM expansion to work in a Ps1 memory slot or it would probably be tricky and as there was no attempt, probably not worth the effort.
Thirdly, i dont think the N64 could run Xmen vs Street Fighter, it could barely manage to run MK trilogy, it was never built with 2D games in mind.
the grandaddy of mic drop :))
I didnt even know that the Sega Saturn existed back than. When the Dreamcast Released i Was wondering why did it Took so long for them to Release a console
Nice video! I love getting a different perspective on these things as we all had different experiences no matter where we grew up. 💯
Imagine Phantasy Star Online on the Saturn. They could use that 28.8k modem lol.
Great video. I often wonder what had the 32 bit wars been like had Nintendo and Sony continue to work together and not fell apart, and Sega of America and Japan had actually worked together, sigh.
I remember the year N64 came out. My mom let us rent the N64 and the Sega Saturn from Blockbuster so we could see which one we wanted for Christmas. Mario 64 was amazing, but my brother and I were totally blown away by Nights into Dreams on the Saturn. We couldn't stop playing it... The music, the visuals... It was just magical. We ended up going with the N64, though. As much as I wanted a Saturn, my older brother assured me the N64 was gonna be the better system in the end. As much as I enjoyed my experience with Saturn, I would have been sad if we got it and then the system did poorly and there wasn't much to play.
I had a Saturn. I also got a 64 when Ocarina of Time hit. But my Saturn got a lot of play for me because I got it modded to play import games.
The truth is, Sega’s obsession with the arcade and their ensuing ports was always a major factor in their downfall. People like to focus on how SOJ and SOA not being on the same page was their biggest mistake. While that is a big factor, it was them betting the farm on arcade games being the killer app at home that doomed them. It started with the Genesis, continued with the Saturn, and was true through the Dreamcast. A point of fact, the majority of games that people hold in high regard on the Dreamcast were either arcade inspired games or were straight up ports. I think this thinking had a lot to do with SOJ and their ego around their arcade developers being their original bread and butter.
So it’s kind of ironic how people love Sega now for all their arcade games brought to home but it’s also a large part of what killed them as a hardware company. Even now, they have struggled to develop IP for the console market. Yakuza and Sonic are basically their only long running series. Guess they should have been paying more attention to why Sonic was their biggest hit. It wasn’t that it was a mascot game. It was that it was a home console experience that would never work in an arcade.
Ultimately all the other issues stem from that. SOJ was an arcade company first and foremost, and it showed on every part of the Saturn design and marketing strategy. Their focus on making it capable of porting the AM (Amusement Machine) teams' games, and their heavy use of them in marketing, shows that.. It didn't help the Saturn's prospects in North America that by the time of its release in the mid-90s arcades were going out of style of how short and shallow the games are as they're designed to have rapid turnover of players. That change in tastes hadn't really happened yet in Japan when Sega was readying the Saturn.
It also didn't help that Sony blunted Sega's edge on arcade conversions (for what it was still worth) by getting Namco in their corner, (Tekken > Virtua Fighter). But they were also smartly casting a wide net in game types, with their low third-party royalties and easy developmental tools. Sony knew they needed a robust third-party lineup because they didn't have the first party properties of Sega (or Nintendo). Whereas SOJ were always wary of third-party publishers, in part because they saw many of them as competitors in the arcade.
That focus on arcade games itself probably stems from the lackluster performance of the Mega Drive in Japan. Conversely, SOA and Sega of Europe were focused on the console market, which they were far more successful in. Much of the clashing between the divisions stems from that difference of focus. And it played out across the whole bungled transition.
Timing. Genesis/Mega Drive had the benefit of good timing, being an alternative to the NES as it was starting the downside of its life cycle. All its other consoles all had bad timing. ESPECIALLY the Dreamcast, which is hands down its best console system. The Dreamcast was a year too late...tragic.
I think it is a combination of several factors:
1) Price. Come on, PlayStation was more powerful, had more appealing games and was cheaper. Who would buy a Saturn?
2) Marketing. In the US, they did that strange immediate launch, which was horrible. In Europe, which was Sega territory with their previous consoles (yes, Master System and MegaDrive sold more than NES and SNES), they presented horrible ads, horrible PAL conversions, no localization and even garbage CD boxes. However, Sony presented amazing advertising, decent PAL conversions, localization and even dub for several games and hard plastic boxes. Again, who would buy a Saturn?
3) Sega franchises. There were not. No Sonic, no Streets of Rage, Shinobi was waaaay worse, no Dynamite Headdy, Golden Axe switched to a mediocre fighting game, no Gunstar Heroes, no anything. Those great titles weren't there. They tried new franchises, which are quite good, like Daytona USA, House of the Dead, Virtua Cop and Virtua Fighter, but it is not what Sega players wanted.
4) 3D was not as good as expected in Saturn. Everybody knew Sonic wasn't there because Sega wasn't capable of doing it, whereas Nintendo and Sony developed/produced several amazing 3D platformers. Burning Rangers was not what the audience expected from Sonic Team. Okay, Panzer Dragoon was good, but come on... However, the other two consoles achieved magnificent 3D conversions of 2D formulas, such as Zelda and Metal Gear.
5) The market was changing. As the video suggests, arcade games were suffering, so they needed solo modes, unlockable content, secret characters, etc. Take a look to the original Smash Bros. or how SoulBlade created some interesting solo modes. Now take Daytona and Virtua Cop. Nope. Those didn't have much content. And home market didn't want that. And also, as the video suggests, JRPGs were not present in this console. Well, okay, they created many in Japan... but were obscure in the West. Take a look now to the PlayStation JRPG library...
6) Sega was obsessed with wining the war in Japan. They kinda did... I mean, they survived in Japan and had some relevant audience. However, that obsession led to lose power everywhere else. Not only in North America, which had a draw between MegaDrive and SNES, but also in Europe, India and South America, where they had been ruling.
7) MegaDrive add-ons. Yes, they sold the Mega CD as "you don't need a PlayStation to run CDs" and the 32X as "you don't need a new console to play 32 bits". Absurd. They even launched the 32X during the same window as the Saturn. Ridiculous.
you make valid points, but the Saturn had more raw power than the PS1. The main issue was devs had a very hard time utilizing that.
Regarding the price tho, if my memory serves right the Saturn came with a game, and it had internal memory. If you wanted to actually use your PS1 for gaming and save your progress, you'd have to buy one game and one memory card, ending up with the exact same cost as the basic Sega Saturn package.
Rat i was born in 74, but your views, and lords, are misplaced. Pretty soon im purchasing an odroid xu4 with a 45,000 game library. One of the main reasons? 300+ sega saturn games, 234 dreamcast, and 374 ps1 titles. Granted, i love the ps1, but sega made unforgettable games on both those systems. Games like astal, bug, panzer dragoon, dragon force, virtua cop, that list of 300 is rock solid. And were you blind? The saturn produced incredible 3d games, panzer was ok? A delusional opinion at best, even though your entitled to it. Bottom line is i cherish the past, whether it be from sony, or sega, nintendo, or nec turbo. Hell i have a modded super nes mini with 300 plus ps1 titles, handpicked by me. But im really looking forward to having sega saturn games to play yet again, and wished i had kept that system, instead of foolishly getting rid of it when i was younger. Hell i i had that ram cart that made arcade games wayyy better to play on saturn, never mind playing Japanese titles. Your not being fair, or objective my friend, not at all
2) It's rather impressive as an early 90's north Euro kid, to not even have heard of Sega home consoles until the early 2000's. We had NES, PS1, N64, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, Xbox 360... but no one ever mentioned Sega home consoles. Think I was 11 or 12 when a PS2-owning friend mentioned something about Sega (not the Rally arcade cabinets) for the very first time.
4) Sonic X-treme was being developed already back in 1994, but again - internal Sega disputes forced several redesigns and finally seized the development in 1997.
sega made a new console in the time it took to write that
Thanks for all your Saturn coverage. I was working crazy hours back when Saturn launched.and had to spend money on computers for my business. So unfortunately I never go into Saturn. I recently got into Saturn thanks your videos and I'm glad I did. Keep up the good work.
That intro 'SEGA' voice should be the intro to their next console.
Mega drive or where?
Failure or not, the Sega Saturn had some pretty good games for it: Sega's fighting games, Capcom's fighting games, SNK's fighting games, Midway's Mortal Kombat series, Midway's WWF WrestleMania: The Arcade Game, Sonic Jam, Sonic 3D Blast/Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island, Sonic R, the Puyo Puyo series, what have you. I wish I still had a Saturn because today's game consoles suck.
Although the Saturn is one of my most cherished consoles I can't deny that it had many failings.
As you mentioned Sega were heavily into making arcade games and this was always a strong point for the Mega Drive, yet even this form of game they couldn't carry over to the Saturn properly either, look at the mess that was VF1 and Daytona at launch. They were an embarrassment next to what the competition was offering. It also didn't end there with the lazy ass arcade ports either, remember Sega Touring cars? all they had to do was hand it over to AM3 to port it over using the Sega Rally engine but no Sega went with a newbie team that ported Virtual On and well you can see the result.
This is something that happened throughout its life on top of Sega's ignorance to its past strengths of the Mega Drive.
At least by the time the Dreamcast landed Sega seemed to have learnt what needed to be done and where its strengths were, but sadly by then the damage was done and Sega would forever be in last place.
As a kid/teen back in the 90s, I went from SNES to PS1 rather early, and I don't remember why exactly, but I really loved it. I had little direct contact with the Saturn, but I did enjoy Guardian Heroes, Panzer Dragoon, VF1 and 2, VC1 and 2, Daytona USA and Sega Rally. So much that when I was deeply into PS1 emulation years later, I sincerely missed a Saturn emulator. On recent years, though, once Saturn emulation became good, I noticed how little time I dedicated to it. Most of the stuff I missed from it already had better arcade version emulation elsewhere. And, with so many games accessible these days, I didn't find myself greatly motivated to explore more. On the Virtua Fighter series, I will make another comment, though: about an year ago I was experimenting with all the games in the series and found it astonishing how little it changed from version to version. Always better graphics, a couple of new characters and moves and that was it. And most games in the series had an incredibly stale arcade mode where you always fought the same characters in the same order. It's no wonder it died out. That said, I'm still butthurt that SEGA didn't bring the VF5 remake to PC. XD
Nice episode!
Personally, I really like prerendered games such as soul divide.
Off topic question:
Anyway to know how many Saturn's are still out in the wild and in use?
Impossible to know?
I know people will disagree, but you're spot on regarding the relevance of arcades in the mid to late '90s. Yeah, they existed, but mostly as drivers, light gun games, and perhaps most damning, redemption machines.
As consoles approached the same power as arcades, the wow factor was gone, and tastes began to shift toward a more western, PC oriented style, with the rise of RPGs, strategy games, flight sims, and first person shooters.
All of what Sega did best no longer resonated in the US. It was as simple as that. Not a marketing issue, not a lack of Kalinske influence, and not leaving cool arcade games in Japan. Sega just only knew how to make awesome games that only had a niche audience left to love them.
You said it better than me. Well done.
Bananonymous last name
You say this of Sega but what did Sony have to bring to the party? There whole ethos mainly centred around getting 3rd party developers on board and Their links with Namco was instrumental and helped massively in Ps1 sales. Even the Dreamcast still had great success while still partly relying on arcade ports, so while i agree up to a point, that certainly isn't the whole story.
RETRO GAMES BOY 78 The big difference with Sony was that Sony's business model wasn't as reliant on being a first-party publisher. Sega's entire approach with the Saturn was centered around selling the world on top notch arcade ports. Sony, on the other hand simply made a well-rounded machine and allowed the market to grow around it more naturally.
At the time if launch, the PlayStation didn't really push a hard image. There weren't a bunch of first year titles creating a massive buzz. Sony marketed their system as a high end technology brand, and with accessible third party features and practices, basically grew like a weed while Sega and Nintendo pressed with their more restricted visions and marketing.
Dreamcast's initial success was not about arcade ports. That's its legacy, not what it was in the moment. It was the 2K sports branding, the re-birth of Sonic, and a killer price point above all else.
I don't know if what you're saying is right but to me back then Sega had nothing no reason for me to purchase a Saturn everything in this video is true there wasn't even a Sonic game to look forward to I was saving my hard-earned dollars that I gained working for Target to purchase a PlayStation because what did Sega have out there for me to get excited about back then
Mo Go
Here in the UK the Sega Saturn had an official magazine and issue 1 Nov 95 came with a VHS attached which showcased around 30 titles already on or on its way to the Saturn so i was very exited and it gave me every confidence in purchasing the Machine, as soon as i saw games like Sega Rally, Virtua fighter 2, Virtua Cop And Panzer Dragoon i was sold and i definitely made the right choice and finally got mine 6 months later along with a copy of Sega Rally!
This dude was on his sport's games. Damn.
Yes I agree the Saturn failed because of lack of games. I was there when it happened. I had a Genesis. The Saturn came out, and I was like "Where is Phantasy Star? Where is a Castlevania? Where is Sonic?" Looking back all those years, what the hell was SOJ thinking? Why did the Sonic team create Nights, which was looked great for its time and pushed the difficult Saturn to its limits, instead of creating, duh, a Sonic game?
I love the Saturn. Definitely my favorite Sega console.
Nothing compares to the genesis
Over the Dreamcast? You're insane
Over the Master System? Your insane
Over the Gamegear!? You’re insane...
Sony wanted to make a console with Sega before the playstation was made but, they declined ... big mistake.
The Saturn did really well here in Japan. We had really good games here that were never released outside of Japan and i think that hurt it more in America. I've never been a fan of region exclusive games. The same with the super famicon theres so many games here that the world missed out on.
This was one of the major killers, along with the fact that US players stopped caring about fighting games. I imported X-men Vs Street Fighter and Vampire Savior... it was mind blowing - perfect arcade ports. But nobody knew about them, and most people weren’t playing in arcades anymore
I was totally in the tank for Sony back then. My brother had gotten a Saturn when it launched and he Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon. Two games that underwhelmed me at the time. Later throughout the years he had acquired games like Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, Gungriffon, Bug!, and Panzer Dragoon II. Well after the 5th generation ended I found myself wanting to play all of these games. I picked up a Saturn sometime between 2006-2007 and began collecting games for it way before the retro boom had hit. The Saturn is not my favorite console, but was my most coveted console. I just had to have certain games, and they were only on Saturn. It still angers me today that Sega has put all their resources into bringingGenesis and Dreamcast games out for modern platforms, but they completely ignore the great games on the Saturn to this day. There's no reason why there should not have been a Saturn compilation released by now.
Dreamcast games are a little easier to work with. We still get Saturn games from time to time, such as Virtua Fighter 2. There are tons of Dreamcast games we haven't gotten either.
I would love to see an official version of the Shining Force 3 trilogy released in English. They would have my money so fast my wallet would catch fire.
@@voteDC there's a translation for all scenario and you can buy a copy on Etsy for 20$ ..... enjoy
@@ciredecgellar8232 Why buy from pirates when I've already got it for free from them? I know about the translation project.
I want to give Sega my money for the Shining Force 3 trilogy. At the moment I can't.
Sega underestimated how fast the video game industry would evolve in the second half of the 90's.
They thought the 32-bit generation would last much longer, and that true 3D games would not be possible until the 2000's.
This is a brilliant take on this subject that I've never really heard before. I’ve been watching a lot of Dreamcast retrospectives the last few days, and I’ve been struck by how many of the best games on the system - even in 1999 - were arcade-style. I’ve never been able to put my finger on why Sega consoles never seemed to appeal to me, but you made me realize that I’m just much more interested in progression based games than arcade-style titles.
Well Dreamcast is based off of the Naomi arcade platform, just adapted for home console format. I dunno if the Saturn was similar, but yeah many arcade titles that people don't really care for in the west.
Because it wasn't optimised for 3D games in the way the PS1 was. In every other respect, 2D performance, audio, memory, it was actually the slightly more powerful system. I often wonder if backwards compatibility with the Mega Drive would have helped.
Exactly. It doesn’t even make sense. Sega practically kick started the 3D arcade movement single handedly so you’d think they would’ve made the Saturn a 3D powerhouse.
Yes, and they absolutely should have done that. I would have also taken the hit and let the 32x people in America trade theirs in for a hundred bucks off the Saturn provided they can prove they purchased it earlier, to prevent people running out and grabbing one at clearance.
Heck, it feels like SEGA trolled people when there was a Cartidge Slot on the Saturn, though it was For things like Memory Expansion, and Couldn't be Used to play Genesis or 32x games, also it would have been easy to bring backwards compatability to the SEGA CD bc the Saturn was a CD based system, heck, if we're going insane, we could even have Master System Support bc of the Power Base Converter lol
My wish for Sega is to resurrect Saturn with their so many games just like they did with their Sega MD/Genesis Collection they released recently... C'mon Sega, don't let Saturn rot and decaying slowly in Console graveyard... Cherish it,please...
Saturn emulation is a pain so collections like that are unlikely.
If yabause dev, without any prior knowledge are able to make some of the game works, why not Sega themselves?Or just Employ the dev just like Sega did with mr Whitehead and share the code to the dev. Or just make the remaster version that works for todays platform and sell it on PSN,steam ,eshop, and XbL
Because it's modern Sega.
elin111 Yeah, pretty much can't argue with that... 😅
Unfortunately, SEGA seems to have lost the source code to a number of Saturn games, I know Panzer Dragoon Saga is among them.
You put in a massive effort to produce this video for us. I enjoyed watching it. Thank you.
thank you for crediting sports games for the rise of genesis and the lack of embracing it for the Saturn's success, a lot of gaming channels dismiss sports games out of personal taste, but whether or not you like them, you don't dismiss them and I appreciate that
I played the First Command and Conquer on a Sega Saturn. Good times😊
I love the Sega Genesis (Mega Drive), Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast, 32X, and Sega CD (Mega CD). ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜❤️🧡💛💚💙💜❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Sega Master System and Game Gear: Am I a joke to you?
Sega nomad: looks from the distance
I think if they used triangles instead of quads and used a powerful single processor it would have looked much stronger to the average Joe. Looking at virtua fighter in a shop and then seeing tekken running on the other system it was a no brainer to most.
5 AM in the morning... Me: Maybe i should go to sleep now. Sees: Why Sega Saturn Failed. Me: Maybe, just one more video. Just one more.
That might have been the best explanation I've ever seen regarding why Saturn failed. As a huge Genesis fan--because of Sonic, mostly--I probably would have gotten a Saturn if I saw games that I was at least familiar with in name on the Genesis. I wanted Sega to give me a reason that a proper Sonic and other favorites were coming...but when I saw that they weren't, I moved on. I sometimes lament abandoning Sega during that generation. But I shouldn't. As a Genesis fan, they abandoned me. Thank you for your honest assessment. I love Sega, as well, and your channel is really well done.
Leaving behind the Genesis/Mega Drive faithful and giving them no reason to move on to the Saturn is the single biggest reason for Saturn's failure in NA and Europe in my view. High launch prices could be overcome. Development tools improved. Retailers came back. But that Saturn library never spoke to the majority of the people that purchased a Genesis or Mega Drive. As you say, it made it easy for gamers to move on to another platform.
This is a great video. When you said "imagine what Phatasy Star would look like on Saturn..." haha man i did that all the time back in the day! You totally have a point though, I mean just look at Nintendo. Recently Reggie said something along the lines of "we try to release at least one game of each IP each system". SEGA totally dropped the ball on that one. Granted there were plenty of great new games, but if only they backed it up with already accepted IP's. I will always love my Saturn but nothing will compare to trying to tell other people about this awesome experience you had on Saturn when the only thing anybody else cares about is PlayStation. Anyway, I subbed man, keep up the good work!
I 100% agree with the focus on arcade games being a serious issue. Even as a child back then, I enjoyed the arcade style games on Saturn but so few games had any real meat on them compared to what I was playing on the SNES, N64, and PSX. Same applies to Dreamcast. Each console has some 10/10 classics but if you weren't into arcade games back then, there was no point in buying either console. However, PSO was a total juggernaut on DC but not everyone was into games like that.
just recently bought a Saturn and Genesis and now i got the Sega Bug lol, so this channel has been my new addiction and quite educational! I was always a Sony/Nintendo guy so i missed out on much of Sega before the Dreamcast so, im so excited to start collecting for Genesis, Saturn and i eventually want to get a GameGear and 32x and Model 1 Sega CD!
Very difficult to argue with any of the points you made.
As someone in a very similar position to yours - SEGA fan since the Master System era, and still in love with the Saturn (but my favourite console remains the the Mega Drive) - I consider SEGA's 32bit system the perfect 'what if' land, when it comes to games that should have been, yet never came out.
I truly believe Sega didn’t know their strengths. They barely tapped their own gold mine during the Saturn’s lifespan.
Knowing your areas of strength is as equally important as knowing your weaknesses. It is important because it helps you capitalize on those areas and produce great success stories.
having grown up owning a mega drive and then having just left school and gotten a job I was able to choose what console to buy next so naturally I went for a Saturn. As you point out it's lack of games was it's Achilles heel. Going to play on a friends ps1 I could see they had much more options of better quality than I could get hold of
I dug the Saturn!
At one time I was obsessed with finding hard to find games.
I went to every pawn shop in Houston and surrounding areas looking for Saturn games.
I accumulated around 70 games! I wish I still had it
Not really agreeing with Sega of America putting out mediocre software being to blame for the Saturn's failure. In regards to the Genesis that SOA software was badly needed. A lot of the games they released were licensed properties that were going to sell regardless of quality. So might as well have the American division pumping those games out and let the Japanese developers be free to port Sega arcade games and AAA original titles. Also SOA ended up doing an admirable job carrying the Genesis in late 94 through 95'. Adventures of Batman and Robin, Comix Zone, Eternal Champions Challenge From the Dark Side, X-Men 2 Clone Wars and Vectorman to name a few.
On to the Sega CD. There was almost nothing Sega of America could have done to make that system more successful. It was expensive and it was an add-on without much support from Sega of Japan or third parties. Going the FMV route wasn't a mistake by Sega of America they had to try to sell the system somehow and that was its only unique software really.
The 32x was a complete waste of resources, time and money. Any software wasted on 32x should have been used as late Genesis releases (Blackthorne, Chaotix, Tempo, Spider-man Web of Fire and Kolibri). What's sad is that Christmas 95' was still dominated by 16-bit and Sega outside of Vectorman basically gave it away for free to the Super Nintendo due to Sega of Japan pulling the plug on Genesis.
The Saturn was such a flop Sega of America saw fit to put Vecortman Man 2 on the Genesis for Christmas 96' and not the Saturn. Also after NFL 97' was such garbage on Saturn they brought back NFL 98' to Genesis and didn't have a Saturn release at all. Think about that NFL 98' on Genesis was deemed a more profitable scenario then NFL 98' on Saturn.
Super Sexy Sega - I Remember VectorMan 2 coming out and I picked it up . It’s still one of my favorite games till this day .
Good that someone pointed out the good American games. Regarding the Sega CD, I would call it a moderate success, being the best selling add on of all time (AFAIK). It was supposed to be a elite system, even if it wasn't marketed as one. An extra to the Genesis, not a new system to migrate to. I think the 32x wasn't such a bad idea, and it probably was the way to go, instead of the Saturn. Keeping the Genesis player base IMO would have given Sega an edge, with the 32x, o a backwards compatible Saturn. And it wasn't a bad idea, initially it was selling well, but soon it became evident that the Saturn required it's own development cycle, and it was competing with the system. That made development a risky inversion, and without games, the system died.
@@KanonZombie Saturn has a cartridge slot. The 32X had no reason to exist.
@@CarbonRollerCaco but it wasm't backwards compatible with the mega drive, which is the point (I don't think it could even boot from a cartdridge). It forced the huge existing player base to migrate to the new gen, and that was its doom IMO. A system fully cpatible witb 32x MD would have been a better direction.
@@KanonZombie My point. Duh.
I have to agree I had a Super Nintendo before the Sega Saturn and I absolutely loved Sega the games made me a fan however the market was changing rapidly and those Arcade to home conversions isn't what people cared about anymore.
People were looking for deeper gameplay experiences although not to say the Saturn didn't have any but I do consider the Sega Saturn to be a high quality Arcade in the home kinda system for the most part.
I also don't understand why Sega never added in game story to their games I had grown accustomed to some kind of story motivation in games ever since Shinobi, there was always some kind of story motivation.
As a Street Fighter fan I had grown accustomed to character endings as a reward but Sega often didn't have any story to their games.
I mean Tekken Vs Virtua Fighter I can see why people would prefer Tekken over VF considering the unlockables and story FMV it was amazing back then.
Same here. I loved Virtua Fighter, but Sega just left it as sterile as possible. You knew nothing about the characters or why they were there.
When the saturn died in 1998, retailers were trying to sell them off as soon as possible. I remember seeing saturns bundled with 10 games or more. It was a depressing sight for me at that time.
Would have been both depressing but also a great bargain.
@@polycube868 actually i felt ashamed for having a dead system at that time... while my friends were living the PlayStation life... i ended up selling my saturn and all of its games when i got a ps1
@@PaulNat360 oh no! :( I'm actually getting my very first Saturn this Christmas.
@@polycube868 wow... i wish i had some spare money to buy one. i want to play Last Bronx on the saturn. i see it was a good arcade-to-saturn port.
the one regret i have was not keeping my copy of Saturn Daytona USA. it was a gift from my late grandfather =(
Whats the vehicle battle game at the end of the video??? It looks amazing😍
This was a terrific video, my friend. You hit the nail on the head better than anyone I have seen on CZcams about why Sega failed. Very detailed and accurate. Despite all the negatives that people bring up about the console, I still have fond memories of playing it when it came out and playing it, rediscovering great games years later.
Reapertate728 the DidYouKnowGaming didn't do it yet, so I was kinda surprised. And mant if them who did do it, didn't really hit me as much as this video, so I appreciate hus work here more.
Another classic. If they would have made the cart slot 32x compatible gamers and game makers wouldn't have felt so burned by the 32x
They planned it I saw in news mag article =) 32x games cart put into Saturn cart slot flat out says that =)
Enemy of The state correct. I read the same at the time.
tightlypackedcoil Yup do you remember what magazine we saw that in?
tightlypackedcoil Found it ibb.co/fuf61o
I know this is gonna sound unwieldy but what if they used it legitimately? Like a bridge between N64 and PSX (how it was planned for CD/32X games). They could have the sound and textures on disc while relying on the speed of cart memory. I bet that would even be more nightmarish however.
But they had at least one older system which had more than one way to insert games, it would be a callback to that. They wouldn't have to use both media, just whichever was more practical.
It's so sad and so hard to believe how many bad decisions Sega made in such a short period of time, and just how out of touch they were with the west, even though Sony was pretty much entirely new at it and for some reason understood the market way better. It's just sort of inconceivable.
Remember that SONY had been making music, movies, and devices for the west for decades. SEGA of Japan thought that they knew us better than SoA or SONY.
Sounds ridiculous now.
@@MaxAbramson3 I mean as far as video games go, Sega should have known better they had a bunch of systems. But then again it wasn't just Sega and America, it was just Sega in general.
@@anthonyrizzo9043 The answer was simple, even back then. For customers, you have two paths that will be supported:
Lower cost Neptune CD (32X CD) with support from SEGA to get there.
Higher cost, more powerful Saturn that doesn't even promise backward compatibility.
That's what everyone assumed that they were doing. When they canceled the Neptune and brought the Saturn out in May 1995--then discontinued everything else in October--everyone assumed that they were either crazy or just greedy. SoA was giving different answers to customers, the press, and developers because they had no control over the North American market, and SoJ was now micromanaging everything to death.
There was nothing really wrong with the 32X addon except that the Sega CD's powerful ASIC and 3D graphics capabilities really made the attachment unnecessary.
but David won... not Goliath.. Who are you refering David too? Sega or PS??? Just curious..
Just imagine if the Saturn got final fantasy 7 & metal gear solid as exclusives. The tables would have turned dramatically.
And how would that happen? Also Saturn has a few great games that still didn't manage to make any difference. Perhaps FF7 and Metal Gear solid wouldn't be the big names they are now if they weren't on the very successful platform they were.
Uhhh... that would've never happened. Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. But sure, 32 likes. And indeed, in that (ridiculous) scenario, FF7 and MGS would've been much less popular as well, that's about it. Also by 1997 (FF7) Sega had already lost the console war to Sony and by 1998 (MGS) Saturn was dead as shit (in the West).
^^ The salt is real with this guy. ^^
Imagine if your life was so meaningless that you got butthurt over the amount of likes on someone's comment that you disagree with.
Saturn has Grandia, Shining force 3 and Azel panzer dragoon so who cares about FFVII ........ Metal gear solid is excellent but release in late 1998 so ....
If the Saturn had been better designed all those great PS1 exclusives might have been Saturn games. Nintendo lost a lot of their third party support because of sticking with cartridges and it turned out Sony's machine and not Sega's was the best alternative because of it.
Sony blindsided them with a console that was intended to do 3D games from the off. As a result PS1 was cheaper to make. And because Sony absorbed a lot of western developers, guaranteeing a flow of games that were well suited to western tastes, and often more longevity focussed than console games had previously been. By comparison, SEGA was still relying on arcade ports, which were usually relatively short form experiences that the Saturn couldn't fully replicate in the home.
The japanese library might have helped, but Sony correctly read the room that 3D was what the market wanted. The problem is the Saturn wasn't really up to it, requiring extensive work to port to the system as a result of it's 2D focussed roots.
Well what you just said was one of the many dumb decisions that Sega made to help kill the Saturn and eventually themselves. As you said, Sega was relying on arcade ports, a strategy they used with the Genesis and it worked well. The difference however was that the Genesis was equipped to handle good ports of arcade games of that era.
Sega practically kick-started the entire 3D arcade experience: Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Daytona USA, etc. So you'd think that Sega would realize that fans would want to play faithful versions of these games at home, so the Saturn would be a 3D powerhouse. But it wasn't. It was a 2D powerhouse. One of the biggest problems Sega had was they just didn't understand the market. It's why they often may have had good systems, but always came in last.
I liked it very much, that you explain everything very clear and slow, so I can understand you. Normally I dont understand well english, if I havent subtitles, but I understand everything what you said :)
I love my sega genesis and I enjoyed playing sega dreamcast as well. I missed out on the Saturn. I believe I was too young to comprehend how good of a system it was and what potential it had. Thanks for the informative review! I enjoyed this one!