10 Things Sega Got Very Wrong
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Last time, I spoke on things Sega did right. Now it's time to take a look at the things I feel Sega did quite wrong. We have 10 to go over and I hope you guys enjoy it.
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Opening 3D Logo By:
Jan Neves
CZcams Page - / jan3d
Episode Notes:
1. Music:
Opening Monologue - Hang-On Hard Road
Saturn Backwards Compatibility - Daytona 2 Sling Shot
DC Controller - After Burner
Platform Exclusivity - Batman Flugelheim Museum
FMV Focus with Sega CD - Sonic CD Sonic Boom
The 32X - Knuckles Chaotix Door into Summer
Lack of IP Evolution - Panzer Dragoon Staff Roll
Arcade Ip's Left Behind - Outrunners Splash Wave
The Saturn in the US & Europe - Astal The Journey Begins
Disloyalty, Dissent, Jealousy, etc. - Panzer Dragoon Main Theme
DC Launch in Japan - Virtua Fighter 3 Kage and Akira Themes
Ending Monologue - Revenge of Shinobi My Lover
2. My visual presentation here was often very deliberate. I tried to use games to describe my emotions or give examples of what I was speaking about. I rolled a US Saturn commercial during segment 8 for example, because that was the height of Sega's failure to come together as a team fighting for a single cause.
3. Each introduction is accompanied by a tune from a Sega game. I spread it out over different systems and lots of genres.
4. My feelings here represent nearly 40 years of following Sega. They are not in any way rants from someone who dislikes the company. Sega had been a favorite of mine for a very long time. Each assessment is honest evaluation into those feelings.
5. The easiest way to understand the segment about the Saturn in the US and Europe is to look at it like this. Sega should have expanded what was happening in Japan to the other markets. It should have made the RAM Expansions available widely. All those Japanese arcade ports, 2D games, and adventure, RPG and strategy games should have been published in the rest of the world. That software wouldn't have made it number 1, but I feel it would have made it better than it was.
6. Sega's lack of IP evolution is a massive topic. It covers games that didn't more platform to platform, that didn't transcend 2D to 3D, and didn't learn from the marketing trends that pushed other companies games to stardom.
7. I came to love the Sega Dreamcast, but I have no mercy about the Japanese launch. It was ludicrous for Sega to do that in its strongest region nearly a year before the rest of the world. Sega was being slaughtered in the US and Europe and Japan was its lone area of success. It just made no sense at all. Not to mention it pissed off the Japanese gamers who supported the Saturn for 4 years. They responded by making Japan the Dreamcast's weakest region in regards to sales.
8. To sum up Saturn sales in Japan, here is a list of the systems close to it. The PS4/Saturn comparison was aimed at the sales for each system 4 years into its life.
Sony PlayStation 4 8,498,338(6 year total)
NEC PC Engine 8,000,000
Sony PlayStation Vita 5,862,809
Sega Saturn 5,750,000(4 year total)
Nintendo Nintendo 64 5,540,000
Nintendo Famicom Disk System 4,500,000
Nintendo Nintendo GameCube 4,040,000
Sega Mega Drive 3,580,000
Nintendo Wii U 3,340,000
NEC PC Engine Duo + CD·ROM2 1,920,000
9. You'll notice that Rage Racer for the Playstation pops up in a few quick glimpes. This was an error of my editing software. It wasn't in the timeline of the project, yet kept showing up. I had no way of editing it out because of that. It was quite irritating. - Hry
It’s a miracle the company is still standing
@Privateo Privy And is Sega's decision to be with Sammy rather than take Microsoft's offer another thing Sega got wrong, right or is it still too soon to tell?
This guy. Like sonic is gonna die you sound stupid
Yep, specially Considering how hard Bill Gates tried to replace everything Sega with it's inferior Xbotch
@@ENiceGeo Microsoft would have basically killed them, like what happened to Rare. But then again, the XBox was a pretty great contender for a successor to the DC.
@@ENiceGeo Microsoft rescinded their offer after a closer look at Sega's financials.
After 30+ years of owning a Genesis, I didn't know Genesis plays Master System games.
Yeah I never saw a Powerbase unit or heard of it as a kid, and Genesis was very popular.
@@frostedbutts4340 I remember seeing one in the display window of a Babbage’s around 1993 or so just gathering dust. Never bought it since I still had a working Master System
I still have the master system converter for the game gear lol
And yet the Genesis suffered terribly because it had to run Master System games. Only being able to display 61 colors onscreen, limited audio, and space used up on the VDP that might've been used for hardware scaling instead. One bone headed move after another.
And 90% of Megadrive consoles would never once play a single SMS game!
"Their legacy is more than just the Genesis."
Why does literally nobody in a position of authority at SEGA understand that?
We need a Saturn rerelease.
@@charliekahn4205 Lots of clone racing games for everyone!!!! Water racing, cars racing, air racing, WE want crap!!!! And also watered down fighting garbage!!! Saturn was a huge hit. It's like tekken never existed. Long live last bronx.
@@ricky-sanchez it was a hit - at least in Japan. And that's where most interesting Saturn games stayed - sadly. But even then, Last Bronx was actually a good fighter, and while Tekken had the mass appeal at homes, Virtua Fighter was the more in-deph competitive fighter all around. Panzer Dragoon series, Powerslave, actual good ports of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, Radiant Silvergun, Saturn Bomberman (local 10 player multiplayer frenzy? Fine for me!), Die Hard Arcade, Nights, Burning Rangers, Shining Force 3, Magic Knight Reyearth... there are enough good games (some of them even all time favorites for me) to justify an eventual Saturn mini or collection of sorts. And I haven't mentioned even one racing game yet :p
@@Ashitaka0815 To be fair you left out guardian heroes.
@@ricky-sanchez that and Grandia, most of the Capcom games... heck, even if they would include half of the stuff I mentioned (and stick with the NTSC versions), it would be ultimately better than an unmodified PlayStation Classic. Wich admittedly isn't hard - still can't imagine was l what Sony was thinking...
Moving up the Saturn launch date suddenly without informing retailers was still a huge disaster in building confidence in the system.
Disney made the same mistake with Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland and Disney World, opened it early with only one ride open and lacking a lot of what they promised it would have. They've had light crowds because most people (like myself) want to wait for everything to be open.
Blame that bastard Bernie Stolar and Sega of Japan. Tom Kalinski did well as Sega CEO of America.
Blame no sonic, streets of rage or anything also. Virtua fighter was trash when I saw it.
@@ricky-sanchez Seriously, even a simple 3D Sonic Side-scroller would have been cool for the time. But no real flagship game of Sonic on the Saturn... They could have even just made a somewhat graphically improved (more modern, that is) version of Sonic CD, since the Sega CD didn't sell that well; Sonic CD on Saturn would have still been lacking for new content as a whole different game, but it could have sold better than the 1.5 million on Sega CD.
As bad as that was, many people talked about releasing the Dreamcast as a cheaper $99 addon for the Saturn. Think of how many problems that would have solved for gamers, developers, retailers, and even SEGA. Hundreds of millions in store and warehouse inventory would've moved overnight. And you wouldn't have had the collapse of Saturn in Japan.
Sega seemed to swing wildly between genius and a total shit show. Ultimately I think their management was to blame. Replacing teams who did a great job with another team of noobies, disjointed management between regions and no coherent strategy as to the way forward. Sega is a case study in how you don't manage an international company. When I think of Sega I can't help thinking " if only..."
Another well said point or Depiction yes speculationed
A company that releases six platforms in five years will soon find themselves with 0 successful platforms.
Yeah this can be seen in how they're handling PSO2NGS. A complete s hitshow.
You make some excellent points in your "Saturn in the US and Europe" section. After 1996, Sega just seemed to give up when they realized they weren't going to overtake Sony in the US. And we missed out on some great games.
"Saturn is a great system if you get it modded and buy import games!" was the cry of Sega fans and the gaming press in 1997 and 1998.
I was a huge Sega booster from the Master System through 1995. Saving up for the $160 32X, the sales people kept telling me about one change after another after another on their 1990s roadmap.
When I'd mentioned some interest in MAYBE buying a Dreamcast, I was told that SEGA had, once again, discontinued another console WHILE GAMES WERE STILL SELLING WELL! Yes, the usual 1990s SEGA insanity right to the bitter end.
I remember reading in the video game magazines like EGM and GamePro about how great it was to play games like X-Men vs. Street Fighter and Vampire Savior IF you bought an expensive Pro Action Replay with 4 MB RAM expansion and imported the Japanese games for your Sega Saturn. Most people outside of Japan didn’t want to go through all of that hassle and expense. It’s a shame because those were some awesome arcade conversions. Even Electronics Boutique was selling the Japanese import of X-Men vs. Street Fighter on Sega Saturn. I don’t recall them selling the Pro Action Replay which you needed if you didn’t have a modified system though strangely.
I agree with you on the Dreamcast controller. One thing that annoy me was that it cut down on the buttons. When the Saturn had 8 buttons, and the Dreamcast had 6!😵
I Love the Dreamcast controller, nough said
I never found it to be as comfortable as the Saturn 3D pad either.
Worst controller next to the jaguar and n64
It wasn’t good at all.
I disliked it so much that I bought a third party controller to use as my daily. And even back then I NEVER bought third party controllers.
It’s the only controller (besides the N64, which I forced myself to use since the third party ones were even worse) that I just refused to use. The third party pad I bought for my DC was wider, had larger buttons, and most importantly of all had a rubberized coating on the analog stick.
If there was a time machine and Sega Lord X as Sega CEO. Hmm.
Hell, I say let him run it now. SLX could author one of the most epic comeback stories ever conceived.
It would take more than one man to fix what was wrong with mid to late 1990s Sega.
Yeah, put a mere fan in charge of a company!
A perfect setup for a late 80's - early 90's cheesy Hollywood comedy.
@TrueSinister He seems to have a better understanding and definitely more passion than Sega CEOs of the past.
@@indierockguitar6875 Companies don't work like that though. The CEO is an important cog, but there's way more moving parts than that. The boss can decide something, and be overruled by the board.
Sega's biggest mistake was releasing multiple systems at once which cost them a lot of money just to sell them and when the dreamcast came out they ended all support for the other systems and it hurt them financaly to the point of ending the dreamcast.
Plus all the money they were sinking into expensive arcade hardware.
This is so right
@TrueSinister Sega would later stop developing arcade cabinets in America, when the arcade eventually died in America.
Worst part is, even today, I've seen the Dreamcast do some things that even today's modern games have struggles doing. That machine with its hexagonal graphics was LIGHT YEARS ahead of its time. Maybe we all just weren't ready.
They were also criticized for making multiple systems and abandoning them after.
Truth be told, after watching this, it's crazy to think that SEGA was ever on top even for brief moment above the success of Nintendo.
And I'm saying this as a former Master System/Genesis kid!
Agreed. I loved Genesis, but they made a lot of errors and they always seemed to lack direction. They had the ground work of an incredible success, but never pulled through. It’s a shame.
There's no disputing that they were kings of the Arcade for pretty much their entire existence, but when it came to the home market, it feels like they only pulled off a win with the Genesis out of pure dumb luck.
TrueSinister All viable arguments, but Sega’s 2019 net worth stands at 38 million while Nintendo’s current net worth is 85 Billion. Nintendo is exploratory for sure, I love that about them. Sometimes you miss, sometimes you create a new bullseye that no one even knew was there.
@TrueSinister Name one Sega console that had the same worldwide appeal that the Genesis did.
@@SomeOrangeCat Thats an extremely ignorant statement to think of. The genesis absolutely did everything right in marketing, games, and target audience. Not one bit was luck.
I agree with the point of recognizable IP's. No Sonic, streets of rage, golden Axe ( for u.s.a.), altered beast, or vector man sequels. All recognizable ip's just missing.
And although games like burning rangers, panzer dragoon, and clock work Knight was amazing in the unique way. The Saturn had Soo many original games you had no idea what you where buying until you read gaming review magazines. I ran into this problem allot trying to sell my friends and family to play games they never seen before, or herd of.
There really was no excuse to not make sequels for games that were successful and loved to this day! Sega just had bad decision makers in all the high places that mattered.
My cousin was the only one with a Sega Saturn back in the day. I played so many good games and nowadays most Saturn games are being sold at retail prices still!
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, not having a Sonic or Streets of Rage game on the Saturn may have had a small part in killing it.
On the other hand, those sequels didn't happen because all the talent was spent on creating new titles that have almost to the last one become cult classics because they were so original.
So Sega died because they didn't understand fan service, but we as a society died because we are all playing Mario 12 and Zelda 16 and wishing someone could come up with games half as imaginative, 20 years later.
This is the spirit of SEGA in a nutshell: "Oh you want more Sonic do you? Well fuck you, here's Nights into Dreams and Burning Rangers, your mother and I are tired of this shit. Eat your Space Channel 5 or you'll go to bed without your Jet Set Radio. Why can't you just enjoy Crazy Taxi like a normal kid!"
@@rorychivers8769 Nights and Burning Rangers are great games - I might even love Nights more than Sonic - but these were never games that were going to give the Saturn an edge over the PlayStation or N64. The mass appeal was missing.
I remember trying to convince one of my classmates (also a Saturn diehard) how great Night was and he dismissed me by saying that it “looks gay”.
@charlesminor6279 One problem is that almost all of those franchises were 2D. Outrun, Space Harrier, and After Burner were ten year old games by 1996, and they hadn't sold many 32X addons.
What's mind numbing is that Sega thought Atari was a "threat" 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
On paper, the Jaguar seemed a powerful system. But, then, so did the Saturn.
The biggest lesson of that generation was: Game devs don't have the time to sort out your unique nonsense anymore. They don't want to program in three dialects of assembly and manually juggle megabytes of memory across multiple banks. They want all that low-level stuff handled by libraries because they're throwing thousands of polygons at the screen and they have geometry calculations to worry about.
It’d be really interesting to see where Sega would be today if they simply did these things:
* NOT release the 32X
* Make the Sega Saturn backwards compatible with Genesis.
* NOT rush the Saturn and actually do strong market research on the 3D gaming people wanted and anticipating what Sony’s machine was capable of (instead of the 2 chips mess which made the machine very difficult to develop for).
* Have DVD functionality with the Dreamcast
* Take a leaf out of Nintendo’s book with Mario and make an open world Sonic Adventure game without any dependence on speed (apart from a very few exceptions). It could be based on the characters of Sonic’s first tv animated series.
And bring out limit pushers that were sequels to Streets of Rage, Outrun, Space Harrier, and Phantasy Star across Sega CD, Saturn, and Dreamcast platforms. Imagine SEGA had listened to advice to bring the Dreamcast put as a $99 addon ($149 with a pack in and demos at launch). It would've hit the market as early as Christmas of 1996 and let devs bring their 1 million polygon arcade games to market.
Instead of spending tens of millions on the thirty two x it could have put those resources into the nomad. Imagine how much stronger the genesis market would have been have a sold on additional 10-20 million portable genesis consoles. Imagine how cool the limit pushers of 2000-2005 would be with the monster CPUs, software development tools, and prerendered sprites and graphics on the Genesis/Nomad platform with the extra $49.95 SVP LockOn cart (built into the Nomad).
@@MaxAbramson3 Yeah the Saturn had brand new IPs like clockwork knight and bug when instead Sega should’ve leaned into what made the Genesis so successful (new sonic, golden axe, streets of rage etc).
I'm still waiting for localized versions of the Phantasy Star 1&2 remakes, the ones that give characters lines of dialog and whatnot that helps to flesh out the plot as well as the characters personalities. I know those versions have their critics, but I'd like a chance to play them without needed to use a PS2 Emulator and translation patches. As for that comment about supporting the uniqueness of the Saturn rather then coping the PS1, that seemed to be the mindset of Nintendo with the N64, and I think that's the reason that system is more fondly remembered today. Speaking of which, I've heard an account that the team working on Sonic Xtrem or whatever it was going to be called, made a build using the Nights/Burning Rangers game engine, only for Yugi Naka himself to be all like "NO! MY GAME ENGINE! YOU CAN'T USE THAT"! I feel that alone illustrates the fracturing at Sega's corporate level. While I can't say definitively that this sort of thing wouldn't have happened at Nintendo, there are stories going the opposite way with some of their game developments. Link's Awakening for example used Mario characters and Kirby without permission, and yet, they seemed to look the other way cause they knew that petty infighting would hurt the company in the long run. Sega should've nipped this infighting in the bud, but instead, it seems like they almost encouraged it, and everyone's individual egos got in the way. Sorry for my run-on, rambling comment, I just had a lot to say.
The Dreamcast controller was my favorite. Why? I noticed that after more than two hours of gameplay my hands didn't hurt at all. Furthermore, when I performed special moves with this controller they worked instantly.
In all honesty Sega's biggest mistake with the Saturn was not having a new Sonic game at or near the Western launch.
The SNES and N64 pretty much launched with just Mario and sold gangbusters.
I still think Sega not increasing the color pallete and simultaneous colors for the Sega CD from the Genesis was one of its biggest design failures (even more than the Dreamcast controller in my opinion).FMV.had a place in games, just not AS the game!
It's a damn shame, bad idea to add the Scaling rotation and another Motorola 68k. Better adding a enhancement later around 92 or 93 to to do it instead. Or even better yet wait until until 93 and build it similar to the 32x if it's an add-on or the neptune like all in one variant console.
It really comes off as short-sighted and reactionary to the Super Famicom. "Their machine can do scaling and rotation! We need to add this!"
Not saying it didn't have some gems, but Sega shouldn't have released the Sega CD in the US.
I'm not a technical expert, but I'm looking for an explanation why the MC68k powered the 2d era of arcade games, from Capcom CPS1+2 to Neogeo, but the Genesis with its 68k is the one hardware with a muddy color palette.
If Genesis had decent color, an upgrade like 32X wouldn't have been a priority
Exactly what I was thinking. I think the MC 68k was usedpopular because many programmers were already very familiar with it, as it is the same processor in the original Mac, Amiga, and Atari ST. Indeed many games were enhanced ports from Amiga ie Shadow of the Beast.
@@maroon9273 I agree. The Mega CD came too early to add anything meaningful to the MD’s performance. The 32x was too close to the Saturn. A 32 bit CD add on in 1993 would have been perfect timing for Sega to tighten its grip on the market.
Damn right about the retro compatibility with the Saturn, i remember that some of my friends saw the cartridge port in the back of the console and presume it was going to play the MD/genesis games. That was a huge bummer
I tried to fit a mega drive game in the Saturn's slot as a kid lol
@@milesevans1073 here in Brazil the Saturn was launched officially almost the same time as the US version and even before the European, but at the time i picked the imported psx, i just bought my Saturn recently and one of the first things that came to me was this opportunity they missed miserably, the size of the slot is almost the same!
I think when they designed it with that cartridge port they were initially planning compatibility with genesis or 32X games, but scrapped that feature and so it's mostly used as a RAM/storage expansion slot.
Backwards compability would probably have made the console even more expensive, and it was already too expensive compared to the PlayStation and N64.
It should have been a 32X/Genesis port imo. That way the 32X might have worked out.
Here is a mistake they made.
Rushing development of Sonic 06 just so they will have it ready for the 2006 holiday season.
Thus, ruining franchise's reputation in the casual market.
The fact that developing a game for the ps 3 and Xbox 360 was difficult was never even considered here.
Because Sega wanted Sonic Team to hurry up with the development, They never had the time to play test the fucking thing.
@giftofgab247 that game is what destroyed the Sonic franchise. Also the cause on why we have Sonic Boost gameplay instead of the style of Sonic Adventure gameplay.
@giftofgab247 I don't hate the Sonic Boost gameplay. Trust me, I don't. I actually like Sonic Colors and Sonic Unleashed, but Sonic Generation was bland and Sonic Forces, in my opinion, was horrible.
Now for the Sonic Adventure gameplay, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog were mediocre and I can't deny that. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 weren't perfect either.
Let's be honest, ever since Sonic went to 3D gameplay, the series somewhat went downhill. This is nobody's fault except Sonic Team.
Not a Single Solid Sonic game Since Sonic 3 and or Sonic & Knuckles, par ą few such as Add ons or Spinball 3D or mean bean machine, Sonic too short in 2006 Sonic stuck to the floor in Sonic 4, come ön man Sonic should have been Phenomenal by now and stuck to 2D ALEX should have been 3D
If the Saturn was backwards compatible with the Genesis, it would have had a 256 pixel width mode, which would have made it easier to port 256 pixel PS1 games, like Castlevania: SotN, to the system.
Neptune (SEGA 32X CD in one unit) did all of that.
I think your number 2 pick is the reason for most of the other failures on this list. Even the Dreamcast controller design smacks of "We don't know exactly what we want, or what we're doing!"
As a "Sega" guy, this video made me sad.
same
Saga of Japan vs Saga of America, like two rival companies competing against each other. A house divided cannot stand!!!
"Hiring Bernie Stolar" could have been its own bullet point in this list. There were reasons Sony dumped him, after all, and him being in charge of a company working with a game console with secondary 3D focus did it no favors.
Yup, just ask Working Designs (Lunar, Alundra) how much they liked working with Stolar. Fucker hated RPGs.
"Mommy, what are those two Sega machines doing?" The one thing that Sega did well back then, advertising. :D
I think for Sega it’s summed up by this: really good developers, really awefull corporate.
Completely agree with not having all games available on all platforms. Now it’s a mystifying task of which games you prefer the most and buying that platform. As a Sega game fan it’s really frustrating. And I’m the type of person to buy exclusively Sega games.
I bought nearly every Sega game released for the Wii, they had good support for that system. But what new games has Sega made in the past 3-4 years besides Sonic and Yakuza? Everything else is a remaster/re-release of their older games that I already own. They're not making anything new and exciting anymore.
@@SalivatingSteve New and exciting, was what screwed them with DC. Had they perfected and continued what had got them there, instead of creating all new/exciting games, they could have had more money/time to work on new ideas. Like Nintendo. Although, you are not wrong either.
Rollo Jankins they could make new games for their existing franchises. But things like Football Manager don’t Peak my interest.
@@SalivatingSteve Agreed
I'm posting this comment before I watch the video, but heres my own personal view as to how Sega screwed up:
1) Sega Of America & Sega Of Japan internal problems
2) Sega thinking that releasing the 32X would be a good idea instead of just going from the Genesis straight to the Saturn
3) Having an early launch for the Saturn in May of 1995 and pissing off devs
Haha, not far off.
Number 3 in your list also pissed of some vendors in the U.S. that weren't included in the early launch. These vendors later refused to carry Sega products afterwards, including the Dreamcast.
Surprise Saturn release in the US did starts crumble Sega's home consoles' enterprises(ba dum tze!).
I'd love a Model 2 arcade compilation. Sega Rally, VF2,Daytona,Virtua cop.
Man, I totally agree with the whole uniqueness that the Saturn could've brought to the table. Not only did they lose potential customers in the 2D market through localization (to avoid the dependency of imports, mods, and imported ram packs), they practically abandoned the sports genre that made the Genesis so good (see Sega Lord X's "Why the Saturn Failed" video). Dreamcast was on the right track, but couldn't recover from the mistakes of the Saturn.
@TrueSinister By definition, Electronic Arts was making games for the Saturn. Unfortunately, the support was all but non-existent when Sega really needed it. Saturn came out in what...95, I think? Only one FIFA game around that time, and no other sports game was released for the Saturn until a year after launch including the Madden series. By then, the Playstation was near its prime and had accessibility to most/all of the sports games that Sega built up for during the Genesis era, but didn't have for their latest system in at least 12 months.
One FIFA game and no NHL/NBA/Madden for a year to get your system on track when your competition already had them in its library is about as much support as a 2 cent tax refund.
@TrueSinister I'll have to see what's up with EA at that time, because Madden 96 did exist along with their entire 96 lineup...and each game was released on every relevant system (including the SNES and Genesis which was in its twilight) except the Saturn.
Yes, 1 > 0. I'm just saying it could've been a lot more if they wanted to get the most out of their next gen.
for real... backwards compat wouldv'e changed the game (pun intended)
Actually no. Backwards compatibility is only ever a secondary feature. It’s not the main feature and shouldn’t be, otherwise, why bother upgrading?
And as current gens show us, games are simply rereleased on the newer console (such as a greatest hits) or if popular enough, remastered, rendering backwards compatibility a niche market for hobbyists and nostalgic fans
@@Yooneek696969 yet theres hundreds of retro channels on youtube showing how to play older games also the fact that if i have xbox i can play the last 3 console generations of game in one place, so i can still have access to ALL my BOUGHT games i still play black ops 1-2 3 and 4 now cold war on the same machine, to me thats the best feature ever. and the fact sony built the OG playstation with a ps1 and 2 chip in it tell me otherwise. its a VERY good feature.
And that's why the Neptune (a combined Sega 32X CD unit) made so much more sense in North America. It was frankly near equal to the PlayStation One and already had a library of over 400 games in the States. Neptune--then giving another year for the development of Saturn games before releasing that console--would've solved so many problems.
I do wish SEGA would release more of their classic arcade and console games for Xbox and play station. I love the SEGA genesis classic’s game for Xbox and wish they would release a Saturn one.
Poor Sega. When they do it right they absolutely knock it out of the park, up to and beyond Nintendo standards. When they miss though, they miss hard. It's so ridiculous sad too; the Dreamcast could've been Sega's domination machine. They did so much right with it to fix past mistakes (making it easy to code for, making it relatively cheap, planning for online support, etc) and the library had that bit of Sega magic in it, though I agree that controller wasn't the best. Unfortunately by that point people were so weirded out by Sega's unfocused antics that it burned incredibly hot and then went out just as fast. At this point I think one or two generations of gamers doesn't even understand why Sega was so special, and right up there with Nintendo in terms of talent and creativity. As someone who grew up with all that awesome Sega-ness, it's heartbreaking to see the state that Sega is in today.
I think they should have released the Dreamcast one year later with slightly more powerful hardware that could compete with PS2, but really Sega's failure with the Dreamcast resulted in Microsoft releasing the Xbox which filled in the gap Sega left in the console space.
The Dreamcast's launch price fucked their profits. The original price was going to be $250, but was reduced to $200, which meant little to no profit from console sales.
Amazing content. SEGA should be tossing you some $ or asking your opinion on things. You ever consider doing a Saturn type book? It would be a day one purchase for this guy!
Having hindsight is easy. Doubt SLX would make Sega successful in the console market today if given another chance. Someone would be making a video “ Why the Dreamcast 2 failed”
My Saturn due to its import library is probably one of my favorite consoles now if only I could read Japanese I play the RPGs on there, luckily there are fans that are way more dedicated and talented than me that are making English patch translation games for the Saturn which is amazing man I love your videos it's a hit of nostalgia right in the face
This is so good to hear from another Sega fan. I’ve been a Sega fan since the days of Genesis and supported their systems going forward and even advocated for them when my other gamer friends gave up on them all together. But it still frustrated me some of the decisions they’ve made through the years and agree with all 10 of these!
Being someone who works in the corporate world it is so upsetting to see how Sega ran their company back in the 1990s, especially during the Saturn era. They didn’t work as a team, no clear vision, didn’t take competition seriously, didn’t understand their customers, and so on.
As always great video Sega Lord X!
Sega...the company with all the talent in the world, but all squandered due to short sightedness and management between the US and Japan not getting along.
The whole thing reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson describing the Range Rover; "a brilliant design, RUINED by 'that'll do. That'll do'."
*Me seeing the Dreamcast controller pop up... "Don't you dare"... lol
another big one, that you didn't mention - although maybe it falls within the entry on corporate infighting - was that Sega of USA and Sega of Japan were not on the same page about anything regarding the 32X and Saturn
If they would have given Saturn capability to run Genesis/Mega Drive, it would have gone against their bizarre strategy of extending the Sega Genesis/Megadrive foreve with expansions. Perhaps if they would have totally skipped out on the Sega CD and put all that effort into the Saturn we would have seen that implemented as well as a better launch and system over all.
I fully agree with what you said about the Dreamcast controller. It was off in a number of ways. It's not just that it was a step backwards in terms of buttons. The wire out of the bottom was annoying. The d-pad, indeed, was sharp and uncomfortable to me. I had to stop playing King of Fighters on DC because the pad hurt my thumb, which was a rare occurrence on other systems. The Saturn d-pad was so good, it made no sense to change the design. I was able to deal with the removal of buttons because I vastly preferred SNK fighters over Capcom, but the idea of doing that made no sense to me. I suppose someone thought it might help sell arcade controllers with six face buttons. The DC triggers were somewhat fragile. I was never hard on my controllers, but I busted an analog trigger playing Virtual On 2. And there were a number of stories of broken triggers in those days. The triggers were of a better design on the Saturn 3D pad for sure. I was happy to see adapters to allow other controllers to be used on DC. I was immediately able to play a lot better on Gunlord when I used a Saturn pad. I also found the whole VMU think to be annoying and gimmicky.
I agree about Saturn backwards compatibility with Genesis. I wonder how seriously they considered it. The problem is that Sega of Japan had little reason to care about it with the Mega Drive's sales in Japan. I do believe, even if it's not the most important feature, it was always good for PR at least. It would have been interesting to see how the Saturn would have turned out with a different design philosophy that included backwards compatibility from the start. Saturn's complexity is remembered as a development hurdle, and that was true, but it also drove up the cost due to sheer number of individual components. It's why Sony was smart to draw Sega into a price war.
I've thought about the Japanese DC launch and how it made little sense to release the DC in Japan when they did, especially since Sega had nothing in the west for so long. At that time, simultaneous launches or starting with a different region was pretty much unheard of. I wonder if they were concerned with backlash if they started with North America. It was probably worth trying. Not only did North America need the DC more than Japan, having to wait almost a year for the DC was tough, both for gamers and for Sega. That brings up another blunder that you did allude to in the video. Bernie Stolar's comments about the Saturn not being the future was a terrible move two years into the system's life here. It seemed like deliberate sabotage to try to force SoJ to rush a successor out, and I seem to recall reporting that this was indeed his plan. I also recall Stolar seeming to think a follow-up system would be ready far sooner than was realistic. From the time he made his comment to the time of the DC's US launch was over two years. To start killing the Saturn in 1997 was the height of stupidity leaving Sega with nothing to sell for too long. Stolar always seemed like a one-trick pony to me, only good at system launches and nothing else. Anyway, great work, SLX. Good to hear your thoughts on all this and I agree with much of this.
I hated the dreamcast controller. Bulky and uncomfortable.
This could be summed up as the 10 reasons Sega eventually failed the console race.
At least they ruled the arcades from the beginning to the end. There they had no real competitor who surpassed them. And as the last arcades are fading out they will maintain the crown as the King of arcades.
I work at an arcade, shhhh..... >.< well, our business is okay anyway.
Yes They did
That's also one of their faults. Trying to be in the Arcade and Console market at the same time. They can't possibly afford both markets. Bad management decision there.
@@XENOS_Indie_Game_Dev I'd play samurai showdown before sega rally. Life is messed up. Mid nineties logic.
Capcom and SNK were equally good in arcades.
Sega made way to many add-ons that flopped for their systems. They were onto something with the Dreamcast but it released to early and they should have had dual analog sticks on the controller.
Great vid! Especially the Dreamcast controller! I hated that thing!
It still amazes me that when Sega of America was doing great, Sega of Japan's response was jealousy and arrogance.
Sega's worst enemy was Sega itself.
Never forget that Sonic 2 was developed by Sega Technical Institute here in the US, which despite having a mountain of cut content due to being rushed, I'll take it over Sonic CD any day of the week.
@giftofgab247 That seems opposite since the Saturn was CD based which came out in 94. While the American 32x was cartridge based.
I love the Dreamcast, but your absolutely right about the control the Saturn 3d pad is better in pretty much every way. I love using it for DC games with an adapter. My guess has always been they were just so cash strapped at that point the controller wound up being a budget item.
The triggers were nice for the racing games but nothing else, hated having to use them in fighters & stuff.
as much as I like some 32x titles, with the extra tech of the Sega CD if they marketed the Sega CD correctly from the start, they wouldn't have needed to create the 32x out of fear and the Saturn could have released with no confusion
As a former Nes/Snes fan I really like your stuff. The insight of your content is great! Keep it up!
This channel is one of the best things after a long work day. Absolute comfort food. ❤
Let's keep it simple: Sega's biggest mistake was, and still is to this day: disastrous IP management. Extra points to lack of internal unity (politics).
You know what i love SEGA but well said
And really, both those things boil down to poor leadership.
@@realsitu6602 I came into life with sega, but.....Lets say they forgot who they were.
The backwards compatibility would have been amazing!
I still wonder what Capcom could have done with the 32X. I accidentally got a Sega Saturn as a graduation gift. Hated it at first til I discovered all the games I wanted were stuck in Japan. Neo-Geo and Capcom arcade ports made me go the import route. Quickly became my favorite system once I played Panzer Dragoon 1 and Zwei. I really miss the glory days of Sega
The comments on the Saturn backwards compatibility were interesting, I wasn't even aware of the Saturn when it came out,but the ability to play my Megadrive games would have appealed if it had been pushed. My machine from that period is the N64. Sega Ages looks good, I'll take a look on the Switch.
If I was Sega I would hire you as an executive immediately for Sega of America. @sega
Sega of America was never the problem. I cant tell you how many books magazines and channels I've watched the problems have always stemmed from Sega of Japan.
I'm torn that one list item is simply "The 32X". I loved mine, but I know it was hot garbage.
I completely agree with you. Nintendo fan still can play newest fire emblem. why sega fan can't play newest Shining Force.
OMG! Lack of IP evolution was one of the things that frustrated me about Sega! Where the hell was Phantasy Star on the Saturn. We still dont have a true Phantasy Star game since the Genesis. While it was great that they took risks and kept on creating new IPs, they should've still better supported their older IP's.
I also would've loved to see the original Shinobi on the Genesis.
I am still waiting for the scud race port on the dreamcast.
Sega...Sega....Sega
I love the videos you do like this. I don't expect to get a thought provoking discussion but you always brings interesting points with these videos instead of just hating on things you don't like.
Hmm, I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I mean, I try and be thought provoking....
@@SegaLordX you are thought provoking my bad on the wording I mean I don't expect to get it but I always get a super interesting thought provoking discussion you have done some outstanding work.
“Instead of capitalizing on the success of the Genesis, Sega chose to to squander its windfall on corporate posturing and overly complicated hardware.”
-Service Games: The Rise And Fall Of Sega
I'm a relatively new viewer (couple of months now) but I just wanted to say: thanks so much for including the music used in your videos! I really appreciate it as you put in some tunes that are new to me, and its easy to find them later! Awesome videos, keep up the great work!
I'd say the Dreamcast release WAS too early - regardless of regions. Thing is, Sega was a hardware company first and foremost. Their experience with the Arcade market was basically to release new hardware regularly to edge out the competition.
They tried doing the same in the console world and it blew up in their face.
I agree the Dreamcast was released way too early, November 1998 in Japan! It was released so early that Microsoft was able to effectively replace Sega's spot in the console market with the Xbox in 2001. Dreamcast was effectively a mid-generation system, like the 3DO and Jaguar were in 1993.
It's true in a way but OTOH many originally DC games were then ported on the other systems where they didn't look particularly bad compared to the average game for said system, despite benefitting of very few improvements.
And even in terms of storage, the DC is not that far off from the Game Cube. It was also the second most "complete" online experience after the Xbox, above that of the GC and PS2.
I think while the DC had no hope against the PS2, had Sega been in a better shape the DC would have had a chance at taking the second place for the 6th gen.
I think that was the biggest mistake. It's unfair to the customer to release new hardware every two years.
@TrueSinister Killing it off and leaving an absence in the US, while Osborning it in the region where it was successful, Japan, was profoundly stupid. And as SLX said, they should have left the DC in the oven for a bit longer for a more advanced console.
PS. Getting in that 3dfx lawsuit was another dumb move.
I definitely agree with you on all fronts, but maybe, just maybe they can get over their weird platform-exclusivity thing. I was pleasantly surprised in 2018 to see Valkyria Chronicles 4 and Shining Resonance release on every major platform when both series had been land-locked to PlayStation in the past, and they addressed that the business model of making their marquee titles like Persona and Yakuza exclusive a specific platform isn't going to be sustainable, this gives me hope for the future of seeing SEGA spread their IPs around so everyone can experience them
Props for showing Rage Racer. That game never gets the respect it deserves.
@17:09...your rant here is going to become legendary man. The ENTIRE “feel” of 90s Sega to me feels like bitter teenage bf/gf shit.
I totally agree with this list
Excellent insights that are spot-on, and I love the music in the transitions!
Best video so far. Word for word I agree 200% on every single thing you mentioned here. My number one gripe...was no backwards compatibility and how they didn't improve on the games with the next system. SEGA FOREVER
Everything you mentionned is true. I'Ve been ''loyal'' to Sega ever since the Master System came out. And I've held on to it until I got a PS2 ! For 13 years, I stayed on my Master system (and it still runs today !!!!). Sega has made bad decisions and is still making some today, as you said. In my eyes, the Sega Ages collection, exclusive to the PS2 and only in Japan, is a crime. They've re-done (not remastered) Phantasy Star 1 and 2 on the Ages collections and it's only by sheer luck that I realised that the best RPG franchise Sega produced was re-done only to Japan (at the time). Only through PS2 emulation and ROM translations that I was able to play Ages. Such a shame. Keep up the good work !
The point that starts at 17:21 was exceptionally well written.
Oh hey, you agree with what I wrote in a previous video about reversing the launch of the Dreamcast. Having it launch in The West first in 98, and holding off on the Japanese front for a while since the Saturn was still selling well. Honestly, that alone could've saved Sega. With the PS2 still 2+ years away, I doubt even the most ardent and patient of fans would wait that out.
Sega should release an arcade compilation, hell sega should release a bunch of arcade compilations.
Really enjoyed the new intro for your videos. Excellent quality.
Well, they practically were a yakuza branch to the point where devs had their family members kidnapped for wrongthink so, yeah, SEGA definitely had many _wrongs_ lol.
The Yakuza had their fingers in most pies back then, but they most undeniably had their whole hand in Sega’s.
@@victor.elkins Which part? The kidnappings? If so, for instance, there's one story in a recent compilation book of older japanese devs. Here's the gist of it:
_"My younger sister was kidnapped. [REDACTED] hired some gangsters to do it. They did it to make me stop cooperating with Nintendo."_ _While this all sounds stranger than fiction, a little context is called for. In Japan, the arcade industry had links to organised crime - namely the Yakuza. He explains:_
_"In Japan, you have these evil companies that always crop up (...) so amusement-oriented industries inevitably become infested with evil companies and ties to the underworld. Take arcades, for example. In legal terms, they're covered under laws regarding the entertainment and amusement trades. So they're managed under the same laws that regulate the adult, or "pink", industry. Because of that, the underworld gets involved."_
_He then recounts the amazing kidnapping story in more detail, explaining that he hired a truck-mounted crane to drop an arcade machine in front of the company's offices to show he meant business:_
_"It was one of their game machines. I dropped it in front of their offices, smashed it. And I told them that one of their employees would be next. To show them that I was serious. That way they would feel ashamed of their actions, you know? (...) [REDACTED] was well-versed in using the underworld to get what they want, so if you're going up against them, you have to be smart. They're a big company, so if you try to fight them with ordinary methods, they'll work with the police and get the legal system to come after you (...)"_
After some investigation -- and pretty much common sense -- the 'redacted' company in question turned out to be Sega. They were also masters at doing to their employees what Nintendo did to Gunpei Yokoi. Yeah, Japan was a fked up place back then (still is in some ways).
@@victor.elkins The whole occurrence was fishy as hell, alright… and damn, what an excruciatingly way to go. Poor guy.
You never know what these multimillion companies, with their horrid secrets and all, are capable of doing. Meanwhile, a bunch of former Nintendo employees - like R&D’s Satoru Okada - have been giving interviews on how Yokoi’s feats (including his most well-known) were so greatly exaggerated to the point of practically being lies.
I dunno, bud. What's your view on all this?
@@Target00smile What book is this from? I want to find out more.
@@zeronightex It’s the second volume of Szczepaniak’s _The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers,_ but since then it's been published elsewhere too, I think. His books aren't all about Japan's darkest shenanigans, though. Most of its contents feature neat stories, indepth interviews about the forgotten gems, unreleased games, etc.
There’s one story from a long-gone company where the boss kicked the employee in the chest (iirc) for catching him sleeping on the job - this after the employee in question having gone through a 48+ hours crunch. I think that's from vol 1, though.
Imagine if the Saturn could play Genesis and 32x games.
No. 11 - Hiring Yuji Naka back as part of STI after he resigned. This led to him becoming lead of Sonic Team, then sabotaging Sega of America when they were making a Sonic game for the Saturn.
Total agreement on the dreamcast controller. It absolutely has its defenders... but I'm absolutely not one of them.
I always hate the argument that Sega should have put a DVD player into the Dreamcast because almost everyone fails to look at the basic facts: cost. The cheapest DVD player at the time was about $400 and to put that into a gaming console would have raised the price substantially for the consumers, not to mention Sega didn't have the money to absorb any kind of losses at that stage of the game due to years of mismanagement and poor decisions.
Sony was able to put a DVD player into their PS2 but they also didn't see a profit because of it for a couple years, but since they were in a better financial situation they were able to make that decision, the same for when the PS3 came out and had a bluray player in it (Sony lost $400 per system it sold for almost 3 yrs if I remember correctly).
No matter what happened the Dreamcast was going to fail because Sega was about to fail, DVD was not going to save it.
I don't agree. DVD was expensive in 1997/98 when Sega was finalizing the DC hardware. But had Sega waited and not released DC in 1998, DVD would have been the same price that Sony dealt with, and yet DC would have been out sooner. Had Sega not cut off the Saturn market in Japan in 1998, that segment would have kept making money for them, perhaps helping them financially into 1999 when DC could be launched globally. It would have been worth the investment because the Japanese market was absolutely frothing at the mouth for the DVD platform, and a DC that played them would have sold many, many more units than a DC without it. That also means more software sales for games. Japan was the DC's weakest market by far because nobody wanted their Saturn's replaced, particularly with a platform that was simply another games console, and Sony promising affordable DVD. DC failed because Sega needed it to sell like crazy in order to survive. DVD may have been enough.
The thing that often gets forgotten is that many consumers bought the PlayStation 2 on that launch day in 2000 just for the DVD playing capability and not for the disappointing launch lineup of games.
@@adamking6645 The most played item on the PS2 after the Japanese launch was not a video game, it was the movie The Matrix. The PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market in Japan at that time and even in the States, but not by as much as it was 2 yrs prior to when the DC launched.
Ken Williams nah..Dvd would have saved it
@@48hourrecordsteam45 Not with the extra costs and lesser piracy protection.
To think, the Saturn launched here in the US with only a handful of games to go 6 months with before seeing new software. If you're going to release a console, don't rush it to be first, make sure you have a solid lineup of software, and don't have a damned drought of time where gamers saw nothing new come out for it. Then you look at the Japanese lineup of software the Japanese system had over it's lifespan, and compare it to what the US system had for it, it makes you just sit dumbfounded scratching your head.
And the Sega CD, I used to laugh at people owning one because all the ads I saw for it were for boring FMV games, though there was some good stuff for it, like Popful Mail and the incredible Lunar games. But you didn't need any of that FMV crap, you could release 2D games with incredible soundtracks and animation that no 16 bit system could outdo. And there were a few 1980's Laserdisc games released for it, but they didn't run full screen, and the video was always so grainy and headache inducing (the Saturn did a far better job for those with stuff like Time Gal, and Ninja Hayate). The Sega CD's port of Mortal Kombat is a damned disgrace, looking like nothing more than a rehash of the Genesis version, with some redbook audio, with arcade music in the wrong stages.
All the goodwill Sega built with the Genesis, over the years, they'd gradually flush it away in the west.
In the 90s, Sega was known for making a lot of hardware. Especially with the Genesis.
Thank you for what you do. Years ago I used to work at Gamestop. I spent all my free time on the Internet, reading previews, looking at photos and videos. I just wanted to properly inform the customer. Unlike, Gamestop owned, Game Informer. I got kick-back and negative attitudes from my manager and co-workers. The customers were generally cool about it, unless the conversation crossed into brand loyalty. I crossed the line with the Dreamcast and Bleemcast. Being a lifelong Sega arcade fan, saw me heavily supporting the system. The corporate line was sell PS2. It was also to sell many items at once. What better way than the cheapest system at that time. I still believe that the customer should be well informed, even about defunct.
Thanks again :))
If the Saturn would have supported Genesis games, I would have sold my Genesis, kept the games, then bought a Saturn. Nope, got a PS1 instead.
Sega of Japans "Japan First" attitude really was awful. Saturn sold really well, but at the end they drove themselves in the ground with their philosophy.
Sega of Japan was merely a corporation owned by K something S.
i got a Saturn when it was new in 95. the cartridge slot gave me the impression that it could play 32X games. it didnt and i realized when i got the system that it was just for a memory card. i never used the slot.
After the 32x I didn't want anything to do with Sega. I got burned and it ticked me off.
with all the paths Sega had to choose from it seems like they chose the worst. They could have sold the 32X for $20 as as a cheap add-on to tide gamers over till the Sega Saturn came out. Or even better lowered the price of the Sega CD to try and get more gamers on the Sega CD. Which in turn probably would have got more and better games developed for the Sega CD. Instead of all the full motion video games.
I put the controller down as the Dreamcasts single biggest downside. I use a Brook converter for PlayStation pads just so I can avoid it.
@giftofgab247 Other than the VMU, the Dreamcast wasn't experimental at all. It was a simplified (and worse) Saturn analog pad. Looked great though.
The PlayStation controller was honestly pretty terrible too though, so I don't see why you would use *that* instead.
@giftofgab247 Oops, it was supposed to say "the Dreamcast *controller* wasn't experimental". The Dreamcast as a console was obviously very forward in many ways.
As for the PlayStation controller, my "information comes from" my own experiences. I always found it uncomfortable and weird and never understood why people loved it so much. These days I think some of it has more to do with it having become an icon due to staying unchanged for so many years, but I don't know.
It would've been nice to see this first before seeing what SEGA did right just to end this on a positive note, but even so, combined with the Gaming Historian's video about what were arguably SEGA's three biggest mistakes, this video really helped me put all of what happened into perspective even further. Some of what you mentioned here made me mutter, "Ouch!" but it helps to know all this in the long run.
Congratulations on 100k, you deserve it. I’m off to play some Snatcher.
Sega's 1st bad decision : taking hundreds of very bad decisions
Like, in Europe, a very very large part of the Dreamcast advertisement budget went to.. Soccer !! (Teams and stadiums!! No TV!! A total waste!)
And remember the Saturn's ads ??!! (When you give mandate to fashion Coke's addicts..)
Anyway, sega is the king of bad and stupid decisions.. the only domain where their DNA really shined was on arcade.
While I agree it was a wrong move not to plaster the TV with ads, I think you underestimate the importance of football to Europeans. There's a reason Sony has sponsored the Champions league since the 90s
English Guy hello, I live in Europe ^^
Soccer is not THAT important to us all, well not at all. If you are American it's perhaps as if I said that all Americans were so addict to baseball that putting all and any ads to baseball was a right choice..
Absolutely not. Most of my friends don't care at all of football (soccer). We enjoy, as everyone, the world and European cup every 4 years.. but beside this...
I remember well reading that it was a complete failure which, obviously, didn't work for sega..
.. probably not that many hooligans were also gamers ;) (And England is "just" an isle of Europe, isn't it ? ;)
About Sony., owning a Psx (as we called it at Japanese release time) was literally being in heaven.. since then it's just a must have for any "serious" hardcore gamers (exclusives of incredible quality, which mark the gaming history)
In the end, what count and is important are the games.. not the platform..
@@EBEDieandRetry I think another huge mistake was not importing great JRPG titles like Sakura Wars. Even today, that game can stand pretty well
They could’ve at least gave the Saturn compatibility with Sega CD games and the same for Dreamcast
The Dreamcast controller is one of my favourites, it was far more comfortable than it looked!
The DC controller is KY favorite. I have no idea why so many people don't like it. It seems like people who like fighting games wanted more buttons and people who like 3D shooters wanted wanted a second joystick but I feel like those are both niche crowds. I think for the average gamer the DC controller was great.
The Dreamcast controller not having a 2nd analog stick was unfortunate but honestly it is incredibly comfy and I loved the big triggers.
Same here. I never had any problems with the controller.
Great video! Agreed with you on all of this
Saturn would've been a much easier sell for me if it worked with 32X and Genesis carts.
Like the Neptune CD that millions were waiting for but never saw?
The people in charge of Sega in the 90s had no vision
I agree completely about the Saturn 3-D analog pad, it’s actually still my favorite analog controller.
I like the Dreamcast controller, but an2nd analogue stick was pretty much essential. If it had had that along with the same RAM as the Naomi and a DVD-Drive, the Dreamcast would’ve likely stayed a contender.
A worldwide Dreamcast in 99 would have changed a great many things.
I like the dc controller as well, but i do agree with the 2nd. Analog
Still would have died. No EA or Konami means no FIFA or ISS/Pro Evo which is what absolutely killed the machine in Europe & other regions.