Some of these paints are just like the other... (Watercolor set clones!)
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Have you ever been tempted by the latest watercolor palette on Amazon? Have you ever bought a palette and realized that it is identical to another paint you own? I have! And today I am going to show you what paints I think are exactly the same as others.
*I am not throwing shade at any of these companies, nor are they doing anything wrong. In the budget art supply market company's private label products as it is cheaper than having their own factories, staff and R&D. These factories make the paint according to the color palette requested and label it for the brand just like store-brand cereal in grocery stores. It is helpful to know what brands are what tho because you might pay 3x more for the same paint depending on who is selling it.
** These are my opinions, I do not work for any of these companies or have any inside information. I have jus extensively compared these paints and this is what I think.
Mungyo Watercolors: amzn.to/38fRCWx You can get a set of 48 that will contain most of the colors as the 12 sets from the following brands:
Prima-Watercolor confections line amzn.to/3zdKHcl
American Crafts-Jane Davenport sets: amzn.to/3gqXzV6
American Crafts: Paper Fashion: amzn.to/3kmdiWF
Sargent Art: amzn.to/3jddAA4 *Many Sargent Art Products seems to be made by Mungyo
Pheonix 24 round cake watercolor: amzn.to/3ycPOs9
The round cake sets from Arteza: amzn.to/38ojp7D
And Lukas: amzn.to/3zdM1vL
Pheonix Halfpan sets: amzn.to/38bF3fc
Same as Winsor & Newton Cotman half pans: shrsl.com/34pm5
Miya Rombus palette: amzn.to/3jfi6y1
Sonnet Studio amzn.to/3zglaPM
is the same as Paul Rubens Student full pan set: amzn.to/2XS0uzY
Superior makes a lot of cheap, good quality Watercolors such as:
Art Whale 48 half pan set
Artsy: amzn.to/3z9QyiW
Novelty fan sets: amzn.to/3zs6b5H
Altenew: shrsl.com/34pmj
Doodlehog 36: amzn.to/2WpmO3k
Possibly Etcher and Dugat watercolor but I do not own them so can't say for certain.
Masters touch and Doodlehog 48 are the same: amzn.to/3jeeAno
Palettes that seem unique:
Top Pick! Meilang Pretty Excellent by Paul Rubens: amzn.to/3khHFOd
Arteza half pans: amzn.to/3y8RMcR
Meeden: amzn.to/3knyRWS
If you know of any dupes that I missed please let me know!
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#thefrugalcrafter #watercolor #art - Jak na to + styl
I don’t need any more watercolor palettes. I don’t need any more watercolor palettes. I don’t need any more watercolor palettes. I don’t need any more watercolor palettes….. well maybe just that one Superior palette..
And maybe 1 more brush lol
LOL!
Just one more. You deserve it ;-).
I can’t stop buying them, it’s so ridiculous at this point! Lol!
"I think you can trust me." Haha. You are my MOST trusted source for deciding what watercolors to buy. Thanks so much!
I'll add a "me too" to that statement.
Awww, thank you:)
Agreed.
For sure, you can trust. She is our Detective of Colours! :D
Thanks to Lindsay, I have learned to use watercolors! I used her valuable guidance in purchasing a beginner set. Now, a year later, I am investing in more expensive sets. I never buy any art supply without consulting our beloved Art Supply Guru! 😁💖
"Even though watercolor paint can duplicate, it's the artist that magic can happen" -Lynn.❤😀👍
Russian is phoenetic, so what you see is how you say it :) the accent in Nevskaya is on the first syllable. Nev sounds the same as in Never, skay is sort of like sky.. ish... and then you add soft "a" at the end :) also they have like 7 different watercolor lines. 3 professional - master class line being the finest quality, then white nights and then Ladoga (accent again on first syllable) , Sonnet being student line, 1 decorative line (I'm guessing for card making and stuff, never tried it) and two chidlren's lines - think Crayola type stuff :) the weird thing to me is that as a kid, growing up in USSR, I had their children's line originally and then.. Yarka paints in high school.
and yarka art supplies in general were just something everyone absolutely coveted (to the point where when I immigrated to USA and eventualy went to FIT in NYC, and we had drawing class that required charcoal, the moment I saw that i could buy yarka, i didn't even look at any other options :P ), and i know for a fact that its the same company was making them, but for the life of me I cannot tell you why Yarka is now their import line only O_O I know I haven't imagined it because my husband is also from USSR but completely different part of it and he remembers them as Yarka as well. they also have these gouache pots that at least I remember being absolutely amazing, but I haven't used them in decades and cannot justify buying another set of gouache until I use up at least one of my current 2 sets (one of which being artxx jelly gouaches, so you know how gigantic those are and how long they will last unless they are the only thing I use and NOTHING else everyday :P )
aaaanyways, so that's a bunch of random information.
Thank you for all your hard work tracking down all these different brands. It's useful for people like me, when I want to give a gift to a younger person interested in watercolors. You know what to expect, want good value for money, and products that work well. I especially appreciate the smell test, because some paint will KNOCK YOU OUT. LOL~
Finally, for the newbies, a sense of what to buy. It's very confusing looking at all these sets. Thank you. I don't need to spend 50 to 200 just to see if I'll enjoy painting
I made tea and now I’m sitting and enjoying your video. I just like listening to you talk…. Good information too, but I’m trying to cut back on buying. Product reviews from you hit the spot. I don’t buy (as much) after you compare stuff and I go, oh, I’ve got similar.
Ditto that Amy! 🥰
I love these sorts of reviews and comparisons. Spot on about not wanting to buy duplicates. Great information.
If someone wants to upgrade a bit, the Jackson’s watercolors are rumored to be made by Sennelier. Due to the price differences, especially due to the deals offered by Jackson’s, these are a good deal. As with Sennelier, they glaze really well and are mostly transparent.
The Sennelier are the most expensive here in France
I bought a couple of Jacksons to try and was impressed. I’m not as knowledgeable as Lindsay but not many are!
Grumbacher is the same for Blick Materials
Are they available here in USA
Wow nice! Thanks for the info. You've seen a bunch of paint my friend. Not sure anyone else could have made an episode as informed as this. I've been wondering who makes the Etchr watercolor set. They say its Premium Student grade but I'm betting the set is cheaper under a different brand (if it exists, which it probably does). I have their set but have never swatched it. I don't know enough about value brands to make an educated comparison anyway.
I think its by Superior
Hey guys, just check this video from Kimberly. Just compare the pigment information from the Master Level Superior watercolor set. It's just the same... Well, not a surprise ;) ---> czcams.com/video/mpEAdsHbHpQ/video.html&ab_channel=KimberlyCrickArt
I am also wondering about Paul Rubens
Steve, thanks for asking this cos I was wondering the same thing
In 2:21 your comment reminded me of how bullets have their own signature according to their marks (thanks CSI for this!) Your research is like ballistics for extruded watercolour pans!
Haha! Let's hope no one commits a crime with paint!
Hehehe Red. I see blood red here comes CSI to test the paint. LoL
Thanks! I love seeing your investigative skills being put to use and I love looking at all those palettes!
Always
SO HONEST!
That means USEFUL for the rest of us
Thank you
Thank you so much for taking the time to show us witch water color paints we should buy or think of buying. Great job.
Great information. I always wonder when I look on Amazon if some are the same. Your reviews really help. Thank you.
This is a wonderful video! Thank you so much for all the work you do. Makes it so much easier to make informed choices.
Thank you Lindsay for doing these reviews and comparisons. I always enjoy watching your videos and hearing your voice. I purchased the art whale tube set after your video. Super happy to be able to purchase budget-friendly supplies.
Just an FYI, all the Prima watercolor sets are being clearanced out on Hobby Lobby website right now for $17.99 each. In case anyone is interested. Take care and God bless. Becky B from Arkansas
I'm a little too late. :(
Excellent! Thank you for taking the time to evaluate and present this valuable information.
Great to have this info consolidated into one video!
I love watching these.Very informative and saves a lot of silly spends lol..Your a Star Lindsay 🥰
What a comparison, thank you!
Thanks for all the information . Always informative and entertaining.
Thank you so much for this video!!! It's super helpful! It was exactly what I was looking for today.
Excellent to have this in one video! You’ve mentioned many of these before, but this is a great resource. Thanks!
Great video! I have to resist wanting to try them all out. Every paint company has a distinct personality and it’s fun to work with the differences. Within reason and budget, of course. And you are helping us to focus on the paints that are actually different. (I guess I have seen differing pigment selection between two companies’ sets, even though they’re both comprised of Superior paint.) Thank you!
Wow, great video. Lots of wonderful information! Thank you!
Thanks for all the time you put into making it so nice we don't keep buying the same thing. :)
This was so interesting! Thank you Lindsay.
Great video, I love the Art-n-fly pallet it sparks joy. Once again thank you for sharing all of this information.
This is gold 👏👏👏
Such an interesting video to watch! Thanks Lindsay!
Thanks Lindsay. So informative, and definitely food for thought. This video should be a must watch for those getting into watercolour. Speaking for myself - it has been far too easy to be distracted by the pretty palettes and colours. I’m lucky not to have purchased too many duplicates. Thanks for your efforts and enthusiasm. 🎨
This is a fantastic video! I know how much work goes into editing a video, and I love how you're consolidated everything into a single comparison point. Excellent work, and thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love these kind of videos! Getting tea!
Thus video is a great resource. A quick summary of comparisons in one shot. Nice. Man I wanted that Art n Fly tin so badly. TFS
This was awesome! Thanks! It certainly took time!
Fantastic! Thanks Lindsay!
Lindsay thank you so much for this tutorial. I found it very inlightening. I like all the tins as well. I can not spell to save my soul. It is really getting bad. It is due to an illness I have. Thank you for all the tutorials you always do. You have taught me so much. I can never thank enough for it. Love Terri Simmers.
Wow, this was both informative and overwhelming. I don't plan to move from watercolor pencils to watercolor, at least not soon, but this did tell a lot about what to expect.
Oh dear. If you hear someone grin, guilty, you know why :P I love you tho hon. You are the one that got me into watercolors quite a while back. Never stopped since.
That Paul Rubens tin is great. I have the Sonnet colors in their yellow tin. Got it for the palette. Love that yellow.
Thank you so much! I have only been painting for two years - I started watercolor to develop strength and accuracy in both wrists because of a catastrophic fall onto my hands. I needed to start with big brushes and lots of paint, so now I am on my second box of Pretty Excellent. I have used them to practice strokes and techniques, but I now I want to give pictures as presents, have gotten a bit more upscale. You always give sound, tested recommendations. Your assessments have helped me judge my progress by how my work turns out, and not by how attached I am to pretty tins. Brava!
Excellent investigative reporting! Thank you!
I think it’s awesome you take the money and time to share this info with us. Thank you❤
You are so welcome!
I agree about the Pretty Excellent Lightwish set…it is the best go to set out there. I have my Daniel Smith paint, but I just love the pallet of colors in this tin! They mix and paint like a dream. The mauve color is so beautiful, tried to find its match in DS, and WnN, I can’t. Some people think a couple of the blues are repeats, but are not, they mix or lift differently and are definitely not the same colors. Thanks for your reviews, Lindsay, makes watercolor even more fun!
Love these videos Lindsay
After months of sitting in my cart, the Pretty Excellent palette went on sale for $16 (plus 10% off the Paul Ruben's hot press watercolor paper which I'm terribly curious about). I bought them, then saw this video, tensed up more and more throughout the video, then let out a huge sigh of relief when you got to them! THANK YOU for sharing your wealth of knowledge!
Love collecting palettes as well. Hugs from Romania. 😘
Yay! I've been excited waiting for this one. Tea time!
So good! Big thanks!
So informative! I have 2 or 3 of these but fortunately no duplicates! And definitely lots of professional paint too. 🤦🏼♀️. Thanks for sharing all this info - fortunately I feel no great urge to run out and buy paint, lol!
Lindsay Weirich I have the Artify 24 watercolor set in a plastic box, about 4x 6 travel box. I found them unused in a box of items I won on bid at an auction. I have been experimenting a little with them and as I have no others I am ok with these for now. I am using the watercolor paper pads from my local W store in the children's art section so I am not spending beyond my budget in these subjective trial days. Thank you for sharing and imparting knowledge, I really appreciate your time and talents.
That was fascinating! Thank you!
Thanks again.. always love your videos..!!
Thanks for letting us know about any smells. Some of us are very sensitive to odors. I enjoy your videos-thanks!
Great information Lindsay. TFS. Frugal investigative reporter on the job!
Very good comparison video. They're like little jewelry boxes so I can see why they're addictive. Haha! Thanks so much for the nice, informative review.
I got the pretty excellent one for Christmas. (Based off your video) and I love it. Although I’m still learning how to paint with watercolors and wishing for more colors. I want to try more things. And trying to figure out more mixed media and such.
Man, I loved this video! Kind of suspected that Prima / American Crafts were from the same manufacturer. They are just way too similar! Great info on all the other brands! I do love those fan pallets I’ll tell ya!!! Sucker for a cute tin as well!!
Thank you. This is very useful. I love watercolor, but I don't want to buy duplicate paint.
Thanks Lindsay this is extremely useful👍❤
I'm glad!
This is very helpful video ! Thank you very much 😘
Awesome! Thank you!
You are an absolute art goddess and a treasure. Too brilliant and helpful for words. And now I had to buy the Sonnet set heh heh. I love the full pans & find not enough companies have them. They are so easy on my good brushes and less messy. I already have two of the Pretty excellent which are SO gorgeous, so happy you introduced us to them. (In the wee bit addicted club, fo sho' but I sometimes use the less expensive stuff much more often since I worry about wasting the sennelier, daniel smith, holbein, etc. Plus as addictions go, art supplies is one of the healthier ones!) Better than my french fry, potato chip obsession heh heh :D To add to possible doppelgangers: I would swear to it, "allegedly," ;) that the schpirerr farben which used to be 100 here in Canada and the art-n-fly and magicfly (about 25 to 39 Canadian) are all the same manufacturer. I have all three and they are beyond similar. I enjoy them but I don't have much traditional watercolour experience & use them only for backgrounds or crafty stampy goodness.
I buy 15 ml tubes because I prefer artist grade paints and make my own full pans so I have the option of using tubes or pans depending on my project. I have found metal pans on Amazon that include 28 empty full pans at a reasonable price.
The tins I mentioned with 28 empty full pans is $14.99 on Amazon in the US, brand is MyArTool. The info says 24 full pans, but the picture shows 28 full pans and that is what you get.
As always, Lindsey, your expertise is appreciated. Thank you so much for the confirmation that I chose one of the best student grade set currently available: the Sonnet watercolor set! They are simply amazing! Another CZcams artist recommended them as the best bargain for a beginner just learning how to watercolor. She stated that the only reason they aren’t artist grade is because the quality of the lightfastness was either unknown or could not be guaranteed. Since I have no plans to either sell or frame and hang my creations, that’s not a problem. The pigments are stunningly beautiful and the quality of the pigments is top notch. I swatched them using Sadie’s method and I have absolutely no complaints. If anyone wants an additional artist’s explanation of how and why you need to swatch your paints, I highly recommend her method. She does a great job of explaining what each metric means and what to look for when swatching your paints. Here’s a link to her video: czcams.com/video/KLlMOcDi8lc/video.html
Sonnet watercolors were my first set! I loved them, and handed them off to our local art gallery that holds kids classes, once I was able to afford pro lines.
Lindsay, I would love to see a full review on the Schpirerr Farben colored pencils...
It's coming (colored pencil reviews take so long...)
You make the best videos i swear! And yes I do trust you lol. Great video and thanks for sharing♥️❤🧡
Ps. I think the Jerry Q could be the meeden ones. Also its also under Maries something i think...
Thank you!
You might be right!
Hey!! Thanks for doing this! Super helpful.
Just to add on a few brands in India, Iam 90% positive that Itsy Bitsy uses the Meeden paints. I am trying to figure where Brustro gets it’s stock from.
thank you. Great review
Very helpful video!
Yes thanks so much for covering this big topic giving a clear, concise, memorable guide! My sister gave me the Phoenix set-nice set to use lots of paint trying new techniques & ideas-decent range of colours for testing ideas in colours you might just use! Who makes the Etchr paints? Which sets have the brightest, most lively colours? You might want to try Vivita water colours from India; a novel set in booklets with the intense concentration of paint dried on the pages, includes a pocket sized water brush (kinda reminds me of the novel sets you have). Thanks again!
I have tried the viviva. They are only and vibrant! I think the etchr palette us made by Superior.
This was so informative, thank you! I do want to report that I've been using the Doodlehog, 48 set, and that I've not noticed any odor or chemical smell. (Whew, I'm overly-sensitive to smells)! I don't know, maybe it's because I never close my pan sets up until the paints have dried overnight, which I started doing after someone complained about moldy paints. Gross. I will probably get the Pretty Excellent ones since they sound like a real steal.
I wonder if the switched manufacturer to the one that makes their 35 set (superior brand I think, it's awesome!) Do you notice any fine cracks inn the surface if the pans when dry it even flaking? If so it's probably the same as the paint in the 36 set.
Thank you Lindsay! I always thought that the Artsy palettes were similar to Paul Rubens.
Similar as in "heavily inspired by" but not the same quality but at half to quarter of the price not bad 😆
I loved this review I'm linking to. The Tinge she reviews is by Superior, so presumably similar to Artsy. I linked you to the comparison she did between the Tinge (Artsy), Pretty Excellent and Ruben. czcams.com/video/vAHce6SvAYM/video.html . It's very interesting how some paints are the same, some very, very different.
Thank you for this video!! You have taught me so much about watercolor. Would you please do a video on watercolor paper?
It would be a visually unappealing video. It might be a good blog post podcast tho.
I trust no one else but you on this subject. Lindsay P I on the job 24/7. No job too big or little!!! 🧡🌿 Thank you Lindsay 🤩💖💕
Ok this makes sense to me! When I started watercolor couple years ago I got 3 Jane Davenport sets. When you opened the Mungyo it looked so familiar to me! Oddly I also bought 2 of the Prima sets back then too! So I had Mungyo and didn’t know it! 😂 the neutrals JD also a fav I have 2 sets of that.
Wonderful!
Another "Superior" watercolors one is the
Etchr watercolors ;) Thank you so much for this video, Lady Lindsay the Detective of Colours ;)
I thought so! Thanks for confirmation!
That was fun! It's interesting to know about all the duplicates I have (eyeroll). I have decided though after watching your comparison videos and this video in particular AND getting a 6 tube set of QoR and a few Daniel Smith watercolor sticks, that I am NOT going to buy anymore cheap but good paint in adorable tins. I'm going to use what I have, give away the ones I really don't need/like and only get the professional paints from now on. Same with colored pencils. I freaking love the Derwent pencils. Chromaflow, Inktense, watersoluble graphite, drawing and whatever else I have that I love. I currently have the Arteza watercolor pencils. They are ok, but next time, Derwent! Of course, I still love Prismacolors...
this was a great video!
I was looking at sonnet but my hubby bought me a white nights 12 set on his trip to Ukraine! Bonus!!
Also looking at Paul Rubens but might just hold off and see if I want the bigger set of WNights instead. Still coveting the pastel prima ones though
I hear white nights has a nice pastel set too!
I got so excited when this popped up on my feed, I've been looking forward to it!☺️
Recently I've seen a new Etchr palette of 24 half pans for sale on Amazon (ca) and I was curious if you knew anything about them? As in are the also private labled.
Great video as always!✨👏🏼✨
I think they are made by Superior.
@@thefrugalcrafter That's very helpful, thankyou! The set is selling for $89cnd😳
I'm trying to figure out the UpGrey brand/palette that just got released but I can't seem to find a match. They are definitely a budget grade (can tell by looking at it it's got optical brighteners) but the inclusion of the six metallics in the middle of the pan is unique and something I haven't seen before. Not sure if it's a white label with a little something extra thrown in or yet another set of budget watercolors about to saturate the market with different names.
I just wish the big Art & Fly had a metal pan and metal tabs for larger half pan. It would make it really nice to carry more tools and more paint. That would be so cool!
I just got the Doodle Hog 48 & 24 pan sets from the Black Friday sale on Amazon. I bought them mainly for the palettes as the prices were so good, but I was curious what the paint was like, especially after seeing your comment about the smell.
However, they must have changed the formulation on the set of 48 at least because there is no discernable smell (luckily!) either before or after wetting, and the color selection is different than your set. They are extruded with a smooth finish and rewet easily. They will be fun for me to play around with and share.
That's great! Hopefully they switched over to the ones they use in the 36 set
They are the same paints but the 48 Mungyo tin is also sold under the name Sargent art for much cheaper on Amazon Australia. Everything is identical the tin even has the mungyo logo on it. At least it looks like it from the pictures i haven't bought it.
Yup its the same!
Those kids palettes I got ik our Lild (grocery shop) but my kids abandoned them as soon as they found my Van Goghs and Schminke Horadam.
Wow, these Phoenix tablets set ( square little pans) look soooo much like a set of Pelikan gouache I had when I was a child 😄
Thank you Lindsay for doing this, I trust your opinion on anything you review and especially watercolors. I have 1 request, not related specifically to this video - what 6 primary mixing colors and 3 other good colors to have for landscape paintings do you recommend from the Grumbacher Academy paint tubes? I'm planning on buying some shortly and you can make my choices alot easier. Thanks in advance. God bless you and yours. Sincerely Becky B from Arkansas
I'm not super familiar with what all the paint names are but you want strong and transparent colors. A warm and cool of each primary color: magenta, scarlet, pthalo blue, ultramarine, lemon, gamboge, sap green, yellow ochre, burnt seinna would be my picks for any basic palette.
As always, love these videos, so much knowledge. What happened to your left arm (mark on area above wrist on inside). I’d like this for the tube paints as well
Dog scratch made worse rafting but it id healed now. I filmed the over a week ago lol
The Schpirerr Farben 48 set are Superior. I don’t have the smaller set if 12, so don’t know about it.
I purchased the same style in a 24 set (plastic palette similar to koi, but with half pans), branded as Superior, and also under different names, as low as $6. I have ordered 3 (one for a gift, 3 for travel…I’m replacing with tube paints in one). They are such a great deal, even for the empty palette. They show up (good deals) every few weeks on Amazon.
I have 2 Doodlehog 36 sets, too, for the same reason (great deal). My daughters love watercolor, and the older one uses heavy layers, wanting super vinfant colors, so the superior are ideal for her and not too “precious “.
Thanks for the info!
I so appreciate these kinds of videos! I do not want to buy duplicates. I think I have enough budget watercolors and all my future purchases will be for a professional grade. Do you think you will ever do reviews comparing the more high end watercolors to each other (Daniel Smith, DaVinci, M Graham, etc)? I would be curious to know your opinion about the strengths and weaknesses of each brand or individual colors within the brands.
I am intending to:)
The Phoenix Watercolour Tablets look like a set of Pelikan I have from the 1990's. Same setup, same colours and ability to pop them out, but they were more than what you paid for them, even then.
Lindsay, as always thank you for your honesty and helpful advise. I have bought so many products with your suggestion and advise. I was wondering if you can help me out, any suggestions on a travel watercolor brush? Thank you! God Bless
Cheap Joe's pseudo sable #12
That gold in the Art n Fly pallet is one of the goldest gold of all the pallets that have gold in them. Budget pallets I mean. Tho it's even better than some of the pallets that are a level up from them.
Yes!
Thank you
Hi Lindsay, Thank you for the video. In several of your past videos, you gave your viewers so much to think about when you would compare different brands of watercolors and their similarities. Thank you for doing the investigations :-). You mentioned Sakura Koi’s (plastic filed box) and how you did not think that thy were like the Art-n-Fly. I know that in 1991 Royal Talens became part of Sakura Koi Corporation in Japan. In your professional opinion, do you think that Royal Talens may have influenced the quality of paint from Sakura Koi? I really enjoy my watercolors from Royal Talens. I think that they are lovely paints. I have Sakura Koi’s 18 watercolor tubes dried down in a palette and their 24 field box set. I also have a 33 well palette of Van Gogh that I dried down from tubes. There was more cracking in the Koi palette. The Van Gogh watercolors dried down beautifully with no issues. I do like both brands, but I think that the Van Gogh watercolors are much nicer. What are your thoughts? Also, I know that you have Royal Talens’ Rembrandt professional brand of watercolors. They look like really nice watercolors too. How would you compare the Rembrandts to your other professional brands like M. Graham, Daniel Smith, Sennelier, Mijello Mission Gold, Renesans, etc.? Thanks so much and have a fantastic day! :-)
I like Rembrandt water colors a lot! I like van Gogh too. Koi pans are lower quality to van Gogh. I never tried koi tubes. I think Rembrandt rivals the other pro brands.
I have that 48 set and I lovvve it. Have the Prima ones too, smh!
I just bought the art whale 24 tube set. Very impressive quality and value
I agree!
@@thefrugalcrafter I was more than pleased.